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17004 Posts
On November 03 2008 14:09 Alventenie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2008 13:58 RtS)Night[Mare wrote:
i disagree with you alventenine. By lynching folca we gain valuable information. either he's mafia and we have 1 hit or he's blue and we have 2 prime suspects. In the end lynching any other wont give us information until later, and by this lynching we have 2 lists we can start analyzing asap No, you LOSE information by killing him now. Think, if you kill him now and he is blue, you lose another role check, or list check, and you are killing him for the mafia, as they want us to do. That is worst case scenario. We lose tons of information by lynching him. The 2 lists is moot because we can vote for any 2 people and both lists can be checked. If he is mafia, we gain NOTHING, because we are going to lynch him tomorrow if he is alive anyway, therefore it doesn't matter if he is mafia and we kill him now, their kill count for tonight is still 5, whether he is alive or dead. If you cant see that lynching him tonight is a bad idea, then you don't realize what him being alive will make the mafia do. They will have to kill him (which means they waste a kill and free up a lynch for us as well as sure fire kill Ace as mafia), or let him live, in which case we will just frag him tomorrow, after he has used another ability (if he is a detective)
Exactly what I wanted to post. Which is why I think everyone at the point should just vote for decafchicken. And after that, move on to either Ace or Folca.
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Why are we voting for decaf? the last meal clue?
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On November 03 2008 14:17 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
Why are we voting for decaf? the last meal clue?
The part where Chuiu drank coffee and his last meal before going to get hanged. It for the most part is out of place in context. Before execution they offer people lasts meals (generally, im sure there are plenty of times where they just said get up there and off with their head), but the fact that he stated coffee explicitly when it didn't seem to be needed makes it be more of a clue than just part of the story.
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Folca, why do you keep bringing up my contributions to the site? Chu has never set the precedent of doing that in the previous two games, and there's no reason why he should start now. It would make clue interpretation much too erratic and difficult both for him and us. He would have to read through 10 (+ vigil/jack) posting histories on a regular basis and assume that the town does so as well. Also, clues derived from posts would be very easy to see as red herrings. If a mafia mentioned physics, would it be referencing your blog, Empyrean's schedule that he posted in this thread, Chezinu's mad scientist profile, fanaticist's pool table photo, etc.
Furthermore, there is no reason not to vote for you, given the claims you've made. Mafia's not going to kill you, since that would tip their hand either way and give the town tempo advantage. As is, the most efficient way to go about this would be to lynch you tonight. If you're red, you're red. If you're green, then screw you. And if you're confirmed DT, then town gets a confirmed kill through lynch, with maybe a second from clue analysis of the first night. Letting you get another cycle's worth of information would be nice, but the fast route is the only likely way the town has to reduce kill power, which is our top priority at the moment.
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On November 03 2008 14:17 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
Why are we voting for decaf? the last meal clue?
No, dont vote decaf T_T
Whatever being a townie is no fun anyways
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17004 Posts
On November 03 2008 14:23 decafchicken wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2008 14:17 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
Why are we voting for decaf? the last meal clue? No, dont vote decaf T_T Whatever being a townie is no fun anyways
Which is why you don't want the fun of being mafia to end ;D
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I vote for folca Because decaf is cool!
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On November 03 2008 14:24 Empyrean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2008 14:23 decafchicken wrote:On November 03 2008 14:17 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
Why are we voting for decaf? the last meal clue? No, dont vote decaf T_T Whatever being a townie is no fun anyways Which is why you don't want the fun of being mafia to end ;D
And to think i helped you make maps once...now you're trying to kill me ;-(
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I vote for ace because i was told to do so by the listy thingy
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17004 Posts
On November 03 2008 14:25 decafchicken wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2008 14:24 Empyrean wrote:On November 03 2008 14:23 decafchicken wrote:On November 03 2008 14:17 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
Why are we voting for decaf? the last meal clue? No, dont vote decaf T_T Whatever being a townie is no fun anyways Which is why you don't want the fun of being mafia to end ;D And to think i helped you make maps once...now you're trying to kill me ;-(
I know 
I still heart you decaf!
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Reasons not to lynch me:
1) it fucks up the list between ace and folca, which we can use to determine mafia
2) You gain way more by choosing to lynch ace or mafi
3) All you have to go on me is a clue so strong its gotta be a red herring.
4) Empy = mafiascum!
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the jet pilots waveddedededed
sharif dont like it
rock the casbah
rock the casbah
sharif dont like it
rock the casbah
rock the casbah
Fight the man! Overthrow authority! Don't Trust Nobody but Yourself!
ANARCHY (A)
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On November 03 2008 14:33 Caller wrote:
the jet pilots waveddedededed
sharif dont like it
rock the casbah
rock the casbah
sharif dont like it
rock the casbah
rock the casbah
Fight the man! Overthrow authority! Don't Trust Nobody but Yourself!
ANARCHY (A)
oh really?
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On November 03 2008 14:21 MidnightGladius wrote:
Folca, why do you keep bringing up my contributions to the site? Chu has never set the precedent of doing that in the previous two games, and there's no reason why he should start now. It would make clue interpretation much too erratic and difficult both for him and us. He would have to read through 10 (+ vigil/jack) posting histories on a regular basis and assume that the town does so as well. Also, clues derived from posts would be very easy to see as red herrings. If a mafia mentioned physics, would it be referencing your blog, Empyrean's schedule that he posted in this thread, Chezinu's mad scientist profile, fanaticist's pool table photo, etc.
Furthermore, there is no reason not to vote for you, given the claims you've made. Mafia's not going to kill you, since that would tip their hand either way and give the town tempo advantage. As is, the most efficient way to go about this would be to lynch you tonight. If you're red, you're red. If you're green, then screw you. And if you're confirmed DT, then town gets a confirmed kill through lynch, with maybe a second from clue analysis of the first night. Letting you get another cycle's worth of information would be nice, but the fast route is the only likely way the town has to reduce kill power, which is our top priority at the moment.
Sigh, you are thinking so incorrectly, it furthers my belief that you are a mafia. You are pretty much charging in at first chance to lynch mafia, thinking only short term to get goals done. What you aren't thinking is long term. By lynching folca tonight, we lose his abilities for tomorrow, or we lose the play of forcing mafia to kill him. We also would be ignoring the entire day of clues, even if vague, at linking them to someone. Anyone voting folca obviously is just bandwagoning without thinking for themselves, meaning the mafia already have this game in control and will continue such a trend until the town is wiped out.
Notice how no one until myself challenged lynching folca tonight instead of tomorrow. No one thought of what him being alive through the night does. The fast route to ONE mafia kill is to lynch him tonight. The fast route to multiple mafia lynchings is to lynch him tomorrow. Why? Because we pretty much are assured he will die, tonight (by mafia, wasting a kill they could of used on someone else if we lynch folca today), or tomorrow, when we lynch him. The fact that we should be looking for a mafia tonight is better than killing someone who has role called. Why? because if we kill said role call person, he flips blue, mafia kill 5, we then are lynching our first mafia, and then our vigilantes have ZERO targets until we analyze more clues, putting more townies to risk of dieing for being loud spoken.
By lynching folca tomorrow, one of our vigi's have a confirmed mafia kill (if folca is detective and not mafia), and we put pressure on the mafia as to whether to let folca live or die tonight, or tomorrow. This gives us more information in the long run for finding mafia than lynching folca tonight.
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To answer some questions I saw:
Mafia cannot target each other, it says so in the role description.
Please vote in this thread, there will be no separate vote thread due to the low number of players.
I have made clues based on posts in the past, these are usually the hardest to find so they tend to go unnoticed.
Detectives can use their ability right away, the only class that cannot is Vigilante.
Vote Count:
decafchicken - 4
~OpZ~
Jimtudor
Alventenie
Empyrean
Folca - 7
Ace
MidnightGladius
RtS)Night[Mare
mikeymoo
BloodyC0bbler
Chezinu
Camlito
Ace
HeRoS)Pink
Caller
Abstain
SoleSteeler
Super Drunk (probably made out with a transvestite too)
FakeSteve[TPR]
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Alventenie your thinking assumes mafia are 100% stupid.
Mafia wouldn't kill Folca tonight. Leaving him alive forces the town to lynch him tomorrow. Whether he gets a role check in again or a vote check in again means nothing if there are only two lists to check. So you'd actually just be starting from scratch, and taking chances on decaf's unfulfilled clue. Thats the problem people have - your long term plan isn't really long term. You HAVE to lynch Folca tomorrow anyway and he can't do a vote check when he's dead can he? So you might as well go the sure fire route and lynch him today because between me and him, you KNOW one of us is mafia.
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On November 03 2008 14:31 decafchicken wrote:
Reasons not to lynch me:
1) it fucks up the list between ace and folca, which we can use to determine mafia
2) You gain way more by choosing to lynch ace or mafi
3) All you have to go on me is a clue so strong its gotta be a red herring.
4) Empy = mafiascum!
Also, this post here. Reasons not to lynch you? It shouldn't mess up any list considering no one should be voting for ace and the minority should be voting for folca. We gain less by choosing ace or folca actually, as stated before, folca will die tomorrow regardless of what happens tonight (unless of course people don't read and think for themselves and lynch him tonight like fools). As pointed out in all of Chuiu's games, he does not put any red herrings in the game, meaning you are defending a moot point on how someone read the passage, not what chuiu wrote. Even if Empyrean is mafia, we will find him sooner or later.
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On November 03 2008 14:40 Ace wrote:
Alventenie your thinking assumes mafia are 100% stupid.
Mafia wouldn't kill Folca tonight. Leaving him alive forces the town to lynch him tomorrow. Whether he gets a role check in again or a vote check in again means nothing if there are only two lists to check. So you'd actually just be starting from scratch, and taking chances on decaf's unfulfilled clue. Thats the problem people have - your long term plan isn't really long term. You HAVE to lynch Folca tomorrow anyway and he can't do a vote check when he's dead can he? So you might as well go the sure fire route and lynch him today because between me and him, you KNOW one of us is mafia.
incorrect:
by not lynching folca today, if he is DT then we can ask him to do another role check of a completely unrelated person and report to us if he is townie or not (not role). Then the person can confirm whether or not and we lynch Folca anyways. Depending on what Folca turns we can now have up to 3 lynch suspects.
Or we could just get him to do a list check, which he will have to make public regardless of affiliation, as it is very easy to confirm what is correct and what is not.
By lynching folca today we are losing a hit to the mafia at worst and an additional suspect/list check at best.
edit: changing vote to decafchicken based on alventenie's and empyrean's suggestions
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On November 03 2008 14:40 Ace wrote:
Alventenie your thinking assumes mafia are 100% stupid.
Mafia wouldn't kill Folca tonight. Leaving him alive forces the town to lynch him tomorrow. Whether he gets a role check in again or a vote check in again means nothing if there are only two lists to check. So you'd actually just be starting from scratch, and taking chances on decaf's unfulfilled clue. Thats the problem people have - your long term plan isn't really long term. You HAVE to lynch Folca tomorrow anyway and he can't do a vote check when he's dead can he? So you might as well go the sure fire route and lynch him today because between me and him, you KNOW one of us is mafia.
Sigh, no, by lynching him tonight, we WASTE his ability. The fact that he can role check another person is nice considering he will be dieing anyway.
Im not saying mafia are 100% stupid, but letting folca live is giving us more information than killing him right away. I can guarantee that if this was last game, you would be saying the same. Folca will die, im not saying he wont, but the fact that you are trying to get the town to rush into killing him tonight shows that you don't want him to give out more information than he has already.
We know folca is dead, so, if tomorrow he is alive, he can openly state a list check or role check without any fear, giving us more information to look at. The fact is, mafia would be chancing letting him live and find another mafia with a role check, or wasting a kill. Either way that is good for the town and bad for mafia. It doesn't even matter if mafia are smart or not, they have to make a decision that on both sides is not as good for them than just getting the town to lynch him on day 1. You even know this, and the fact that you are pushing to lynch him today to prove that he is mafia (since you yourself probably will say you are not mafia).
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Canada7170 Posts
I'm sorry, I don't see the half/half thing working. Therefore, I implore others that wish to use this system to even out the voting by manually checking. Therefore,
## I change my vote from lynching Folca to instead lynch Ace
If that wasn't clear, I'm voting to lynch Ace based on the current count. Nightmare's system will only work with mass support, and there is way too much dissension in the ranks for the system to work.
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EPT
