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Hey guys, I just got this totally legit, 100% non-edited PM from Shallow!
Wow, what are the chances 
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16987 Posts
On March 19 2008 10:16 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 09:58 CDRdude wrote:After thinking this through, I have come to the conclusion that there is no flaw. + Show Spoiler [Why there is no flaw] +
Okay. In this example, we will have 7 bodyguards, 1 mayor, 20 mafia, and a bunch of other people who aren't important, we can call them townies.
If the mayor is mafia, and is smart, he will do this:
Send a PM to:
Bodyguard 1
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6
As far as the legitimate bodyguard can tell, this is legit. The mafia will obviously claim to be bodyguards, and Bodyguard 1 won't know better.
Send a PM to:
Bodyguard 2
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6
Again, the real bodyguard can't tell the difference.
PM3:
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6
You should be getting the point by now. If you aren't, you probably don't deserve to be mayor.
The mafia mayor can do this a total of seven times, so that each bodyguard receives a PM with 6 other people on it. Each of those people insist that they are bodyguards, the real bodyguards won't know the difference, and no real bodyguard will be left out. Since no real bodyguard will be left out, nobody will stand out to say that they didn't receive a PM.
This can't last forever, but it can do a lot of damage. One of two things will happen; either a bodyguard will stand out, according to qrs' plan. The other (real) bodyguards will recognize him as not being in their group, and they'll cry out. Confusion ensues, but people will soon realize that the mayor is a mafioso. However, this takes a bit of time, and the mafia gets a good bit of damage in. BUT---once the real situation is discovered, mafia's 1-6 lives are forfeit. Net gain for the town. The mafia could avoid some of this by mixing in more bodyguards to the PM's, but even then it's a loss for the mafia, gain for the town.
The other possibility is if no bodyguard stands out (the mayor ignores qrs' plan) and a fake detective proclaims that the mayor is innocent. That's nice. However, that also assumes that no other detective checked on the mayor, which is unlikely to happen. Soon, the truth will come out, and the bodyguards will realize that the others in the message are fakes, and can be lynched/mad hatted/killed during the night/permabanned or whatever. End result: town is ahead. This will be a bit bloody, but about equal numbers of mafia and town will die here, so that's still +town.
How to avoid all the mess: Basically, qrs' plan is needed. A bodyguard has to step forward. All the real bodyguards will know whether or not he was included in the PM to them, so you don't have to confirm anything. Of course, that bodyguard will probably be gunned down during the night, but whatever, sucks for him. Much as I hate to admit it, I believe my plan is flawed. As per Kau's post, a Mafia can identify himself as a bodyguard, and all the bodyguards will believe he is telling the truth. The Bodyguard plan is not failsafe after all. Unless someone comes up with something new, we will have to waste some detective power as Ghar has been saying.
Hell, if I don't get to be the mayor/pardoner, I'll be the sacrifice. At least it'll benefit the town since I'll die if I don't the the positions anyway.
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On March 19 2008 10:19 CDRdude wrote:Hey guys, I just got this totally legit, 100% non-edited PM from Shallow! Wow, what are the chances
Didn't you use that same picture last game as well? :p
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On March 19 2008 10:14 wurm wrote:
omg, 10 pages of bickering. I quit halfway through. Thank god for Falcynn's blog. OH YEAH! Everyone loves the Falcynn!
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This game is so sexy already! I wish I was drunk so I could say I love you guys.
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On March 19 2008 10:24 fusionsdf wrote:
LOL the best part is that it says "to : ShaLLoW[baY]" and not from.
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On March 19 2008 10:16 qrs wrote:
Much as I hate to admit it, I believe my plan is flawed. As per Kau's post, a Mafia can identify himself as a bodyguard, and all the bodyguards will believe he is telling the truth. The Bodyguard plan is not failsafe after all. Unless someone comes up with something new, we will have to waste some detective power as Ghar has been saying.
Read my self checking scheme.
Sure we waste some Detective Power, but we get a much needed confirmation of the Mayor's status.
An added benefit is that once the Detectives know the Mayor is innocent, he can then PM him and reveal himself.
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On March 18 2008 15:41 Chuiu wrote:
...commented Mr. Pink as he began going over the plans. Mr. Blue got in the last word...
63. HeRoS)Pink
95. OneBlueAugust
it's too early to tell and it seems a bit too obvious, but let's just keep an eye on these two
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Well, yeah; in fact, once we all know the Mayor is innocent, everyone with a role can and should PM him. I had thought that the bodyguard plan was a way to improve on that, but it seems that it is not after all.
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Kau
Canada3500 Posts
On March 19 2008 10:16 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 09:58 CDRdude wrote:After thinking this through, I have come to the conclusion that there is no flaw. + Show Spoiler [Why there is no flaw] +
Okay. In this example, we will have 7 bodyguards, 1 mayor, 20 mafia, and a bunch of other people who aren't important, we can call them townies.
If the mayor is mafia, and is smart, he will do this:
Send a PM to:
Bodyguard 1
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6
As far as the legitimate bodyguard can tell, this is legit. The mafia will obviously claim to be bodyguards, and Bodyguard 1 won't know better.
Send a PM to:
Bodyguard 2
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6
Again, the real bodyguard can't tell the difference.
PM3:
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6
You should be getting the point by now. If you aren't, you probably don't deserve to be mayor.
The mafia mayor can do this a total of seven times, so that each bodyguard receives a PM with 6 other people on it. Each of those people insist that they are bodyguards, the real bodyguards won't know the difference, and no real bodyguard will be left out. Since no real bodyguard will be left out, nobody will stand out to say that they didn't receive a PM.
This can't last forever, but it can do a lot of damage. One of two things will happen; either a bodyguard will stand out, according to qrs' plan. The other (real) bodyguards will recognize him as not being in their group, and they'll cry out. Confusion ensues, but people will soon realize that the mayor is a mafioso. However, this takes a bit of time, and the mafia gets a good bit of damage in. BUT---once the real situation is discovered, mafia's 1-6 lives are forfeit. Net gain for the town. The mafia could avoid some of this by mixing in more bodyguards to the PM's, but even then it's a loss for the mafia, gain for the town.
The other possibility is if no bodyguard stands out (the mayor ignores qrs' plan) and a fake detective proclaims that the mayor is innocent. That's nice. However, that also assumes that no other detective checked on the mayor, which is unlikely to happen. Soon, the truth will come out, and the bodyguards will realize that the others in the message are fakes, and can be lynched/mad hatted/killed during the night/permabanned or whatever. End result: town is ahead. This will be a bit bloody, but about equal numbers of mafia and town will die here, so that's still +town.
How to avoid all the mess: Basically, qrs' plan is needed. A bodyguard has to step forward. All the real bodyguards will know whether or not he was included in the PM to them, so you don't have to confirm anything. Of course, that bodyguard will probably be gunned down during the night, but whatever, sucks for him. Much as I hate to admit it, I believe my plan is flawed. As per Kau's post, a Mafia can identify himself as a bodyguard, and all the bodyguards will believe he is telling the truth. The Bodyguard plan is not failsafe after all. Unless someone comes up with something new, we will have to waste some detective power as Ghar has been saying.
We would only have to lose one detective.
Ace said that if the detectives find the mayor is innocent, then they say nothing. If the mayor is mafia, then the detectives speak out.
Now in the case the detectives speak out, we would first have to lynch the detective to see if he's an actual detective or mafia. If he's actual detective then we know the mayor is mafia. If he's mafia then we know the mayor is townie.
Hmm... Actually, what happens in the case the mayor is mafia, and a mafia-detective points him out along with real detective. Would we have to lynch both to be sure?
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I don't know what the point of the sudden influx of shitty PM doctoring is, by the way
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On March 19 2008 10:30 Kau wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 10:16 qrs wrote:On March 19 2008 09:58 CDRdude wrote:After thinking this through, I have come to the conclusion that there is no flaw. + Show Spoiler [Why there is no flaw] +
Okay. In this example, we will have 7 bodyguards, 1 mayor, 20 mafia, and a bunch of other people who aren't important, we can call them townies.
If the mayor is mafia, and is smart, he will do this:
Send a PM to:
Bodyguard 1
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6
As far as the legitimate bodyguard can tell, this is legit. The mafia will obviously claim to be bodyguards, and Bodyguard 1 won't know better.
Send a PM to:
Bodyguard 2
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6
Again, the real bodyguard can't tell the difference.
PM3:
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6
You should be getting the point by now. If you aren't, you probably don't deserve to be mayor.
The mafia mayor can do this a total of seven times, so that each bodyguard receives a PM with 6 other people on it. Each of those people insist that they are bodyguards, the real bodyguards won't know the difference, and no real bodyguard will be left out. Since no real bodyguard will be left out, nobody will stand out to say that they didn't receive a PM.
This can't last forever, but it can do a lot of damage. One of two things will happen; either a bodyguard will stand out, according to qrs' plan. The other (real) bodyguards will recognize him as not being in their group, and they'll cry out. Confusion ensues, but people will soon realize that the mayor is a mafioso. However, this takes a bit of time, and the mafia gets a good bit of damage in. BUT---once the real situation is discovered, mafia's 1-6 lives are forfeit. Net gain for the town. The mafia could avoid some of this by mixing in more bodyguards to the PM's, but even then it's a loss for the mafia, gain for the town.
The other possibility is if no bodyguard stands out (the mayor ignores qrs' plan) and a fake detective proclaims that the mayor is innocent. That's nice. However, that also assumes that no other detective checked on the mayor, which is unlikely to happen. Soon, the truth will come out, and the bodyguards will realize that the others in the message are fakes, and can be lynched/mad hatted/killed during the night/permabanned or whatever. End result: town is ahead. This will be a bit bloody, but about equal numbers of mafia and town will die here, so that's still +town.
How to avoid all the mess: Basically, qrs' plan is needed. A bodyguard has to step forward. All the real bodyguards will know whether or not he was included in the PM to them, so you don't have to confirm anything. Of course, that bodyguard will probably be gunned down during the night, but whatever, sucks for him. Much as I hate to admit it, I believe my plan is flawed. As per Kau's post, a Mafia can identify himself as a bodyguard, and all the bodyguards will believe he is telling the truth. The Bodyguard plan is not failsafe after all. Unless someone comes up with something new, we will have to waste some detective power as Ghar has been saying. We would only have to lose one detective. Ace said that if the detectives find the mayor is innocent, then they say nothing. If the mayor is mafia, then the detectives speak out. Now in the case the detectives speak out, we would first have to lynch the detective to see if he's an actual detective or mafia. If he's actual detective then we know the mayor is mafia. If he's mafia then we know the mayor is townie. Hmm... Actually, what happens in the case the mayor is mafia, and a mafia-detective points him out along with real detective. Would we have to lynch both to be sure?
that would be dumb of the mafia? they'd lose that fake detective member as well as a mafia mayor. but yes i'd assume we'd have to lynch both, or in that case order a double lynch and if the mayor doesn't do it then he's mafia?
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On March 19 2008 10:30 Kau wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 10:16 qrs wrote:On March 19 2008 09:58 CDRdude wrote:After thinking this through, I have come to the conclusion that there is no flaw. + Show Spoiler [Why there is no flaw] +
Okay. In this example, we will have 7 bodyguards, 1 mayor, 20 mafia, and a bunch of other people who aren't important, we can call them townies.
If the mayor is mafia, and is smart, he will do this:
Send a PM to:
Bodyguard 1
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6
As far as the legitimate bodyguard can tell, this is legit. The mafia will obviously claim to be bodyguards, and Bodyguard 1 won't know better.
Send a PM to:
Bodyguard 2
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6
Again, the real bodyguard can't tell the difference.
PM3:
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6
You should be getting the point by now. If you aren't, you probably don't deserve to be mayor.
The mafia mayor can do this a total of seven times, so that each bodyguard receives a PM with 6 other people on it. Each of those people insist that they are bodyguards, the real bodyguards won't know the difference, and no real bodyguard will be left out. Since no real bodyguard will be left out, nobody will stand out to say that they didn't receive a PM.
This can't last forever, but it can do a lot of damage. One of two things will happen; either a bodyguard will stand out, according to qrs' plan. The other (real) bodyguards will recognize him as not being in their group, and they'll cry out. Confusion ensues, but people will soon realize that the mayor is a mafioso. However, this takes a bit of time, and the mafia gets a good bit of damage in. BUT---once the real situation is discovered, mafia's 1-6 lives are forfeit. Net gain for the town. The mafia could avoid some of this by mixing in more bodyguards to the PM's, but even then it's a loss for the mafia, gain for the town.
The other possibility is if no bodyguard stands out (the mayor ignores qrs' plan) and a fake detective proclaims that the mayor is innocent. That's nice. However, that also assumes that no other detective checked on the mayor, which is unlikely to happen. Soon, the truth will come out, and the bodyguards will realize that the others in the message are fakes, and can be lynched/mad hatted/killed during the night/permabanned or whatever. End result: town is ahead. This will be a bit bloody, but about equal numbers of mafia and town will die here, so that's still +town.
How to avoid all the mess: Basically, qrs' plan is needed. A bodyguard has to step forward. All the real bodyguards will know whether or not he was included in the PM to them, so you don't have to confirm anything. Of course, that bodyguard will probably be gunned down during the night, but whatever, sucks for him. Much as I hate to admit it, I believe my plan is flawed. As per Kau's post, a Mafia can identify himself as a bodyguard, and all the bodyguards will believe he is telling the truth. The Bodyguard plan is not failsafe after all. Unless someone comes up with something new, we will have to waste some detective power as Ghar has been saying. We would only have to lose one detective. Ace said that if the detectives find the mayor is innocent, then they say nothing. If the mayor is mafia, then the detectives speak out. Now in the case the detectives speak out, we would first have to lynch the detective to see if he's an actual detective or mafia. If he's actual detective then we know the mayor is mafia. If he's mafia then we know the mayor is townie. Hmm... Actually, what happens in the case the mayor is mafia, and a mafia-detective points him out along with real detective. Would we have to lynch both to be sure? I'd assume so. Basically we just lynch everybody that claims to be detective. So hopefully one detective will find the will to claim that the mayor is mafia and after that the rest of the detectives should not say anything, because everyone else will get lynched as well.
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what if the pardoner is mafia?
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On March 19 2008 10:30 Kau wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 10:16 qrs wrote:On March 19 2008 09:58 CDRdude wrote:After thinking this through, I have come to the conclusion that there is no flaw. + Show Spoiler [Why there is no flaw] +
Okay. In this example, we will have 7 bodyguards, 1 mayor, 20 mafia, and a bunch of other people who aren't important, we can call them townies.
If the mayor is mafia, and is smart, he will do this:
Send a PM to:
Bodyguard 1
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6
As far as the legitimate bodyguard can tell, this is legit. The mafia will obviously claim to be bodyguards, and Bodyguard 1 won't know better.
Send a PM to:
Bodyguard 2
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6
Again, the real bodyguard can't tell the difference.
PM3:
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6
You should be getting the point by now. If you aren't, you probably don't deserve to be mayor.
The mafia mayor can do this a total of seven times, so that each bodyguard receives a PM with 6 other people on it. Each of those people insist that they are bodyguards, the real bodyguards won't know the difference, and no real bodyguard will be left out. Since no real bodyguard will be left out, nobody will stand out to say that they didn't receive a PM.
This can't last forever, but it can do a lot of damage. One of two things will happen; either a bodyguard will stand out, according to qrs' plan. The other (real) bodyguards will recognize him as not being in their group, and they'll cry out. Confusion ensues, but people will soon realize that the mayor is a mafioso. However, this takes a bit of time, and the mafia gets a good bit of damage in. BUT---once the real situation is discovered, mafia's 1-6 lives are forfeit. Net gain for the town. The mafia could avoid some of this by mixing in more bodyguards to the PM's, but even then it's a loss for the mafia, gain for the town.
The other possibility is if no bodyguard stands out (the mayor ignores qrs' plan) and a fake detective proclaims that the mayor is innocent. That's nice. However, that also assumes that no other detective checked on the mayor, which is unlikely to happen. Soon, the truth will come out, and the bodyguards will realize that the others in the message are fakes, and can be lynched/mad hatted/killed during the night/permabanned or whatever. End result: town is ahead. This will be a bit bloody, but about equal numbers of mafia and town will die here, so that's still +town.
How to avoid all the mess: Basically, qrs' plan is needed. A bodyguard has to step forward. All the real bodyguards will know whether or not he was included in the PM to them, so you don't have to confirm anything. Of course, that bodyguard will probably be gunned down during the night, but whatever, sucks for him. Much as I hate to admit it, I believe my plan is flawed. As per Kau's post, a Mafia can identify himself as a bodyguard, and all the bodyguards will believe he is telling the truth. The Bodyguard plan is not failsafe after all. Unless someone comes up with something new, we will have to waste some detective power as Ghar has been saying. We would only have to lose one detective. Ace said that if the detectives find the mayor is innocent, then they say nothing. If the mayor is mafia, then the detectives speak out. Now in the case the detectives speak out, we would first have to lynch the detective to see if he's an actual detective or mafia. If he's actual detective then we know the mayor is mafia. If he's mafia then we know the mayor is townie. Hmm... Actually, what happens in the case the mayor is mafia, and a mafia-detective points him out along with real detective. Would we have to lynch both to be sure? When I said detective power, I didn't mean just the one detective, but the other 3 wasting one of their "is-he-mafia" questions. But if there's no better way, it's still definitely worth it.
Re your scenario, presumably the Mafia could buy days for their mayor at the rate of one mafioso per day. I don't see more than one detective speaking up at a time--that would be very dangerous for the real detectives.
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On March 19 2008 10:30 Kau wrote:
Hmm... Actually, what happens in the case the mayor is mafia, and a mafia-detective points him out along with real detective. Would we have to lynch both to be sure?
Yes, but another alternative is to apply clues to both of them and find out which fits best and go from there. If we make a mistake and lynch one of them innocently, then the other is sure to be Mafia.
When that testimony is resolved we will also know the status of the Mayor.
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On March 19 2008 10:34 goldenkrnboi wrote:what if the pardoner is mafia? Then when he pardons someone a vigilante takes that person out the next night. If the person who got pardoned is mafia, then we lynch the pardoner next day.
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On March 19 2008 10:35 Falcynn wrote:Then when he pardons someone a vigilante takes that person out the next night. If the person who got pardoned is mafia, then we lynch the pardoner next day.
clever. :O
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On March 19 2008 10:37 goldenkrnboi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 10:35 Falcynn wrote:On March 19 2008 10:34 goldenkrnboi wrote:what if the pardoner is mafia? Then when he pardons someone a vigilante takes that person out the next night. If the person who got pardoned is mafia, then we lynch the pardoner next day. clever. :O I don't think it's clever at all. Even if the pardoner pardons a mafioso it may have been accidental; on the other hand, if he pardons an honest man, we waste a vigilante's kill, and lose the guy anyway. And a smart mafioso will pardon an honest man, knowing this, and still be able to pardon the next mafioso who is up for trial. Basically, the plan sucks (sorry Falcynn, but it's true).
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3782/lolshallowmg6.png)
![[image loading]](http://i25.tinypic.com/2vsm068.jpg)
