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Dark.Carnival
United States5095 Posts
On March 19 2008 09:51 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: offtopic : how is DT short for detective? DeTective? DetecTive? probably one of those, but in context of the game i don't see how it can be confused with anything else, so seeing someone say DT would of course relate to detective. | ||
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Falcynn
United States3597 Posts
Edit: OH I KNOW! If a detective is forced to sacrifice himself I'll have a memorial "plaque" on my blog to commemorate their selflessness, and maybe someone can whip up a cool picture for them ^_^ | ||
Empyrean
17082 Posts
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CDRdude
United States5625 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Why there is no flaw] + Okay. In this example, we will have 7 bodyguards, 1 mayor, 20 mafia, and a bunch of other people who aren't important, we can call them townies. If the mayor is mafia, and is smart, he will do this: Send a PM to: Bodyguard 1 Mafia 1 Mafia 2 . . . Mafia 6 As far as the legitimate bodyguard can tell, this is legit. The mafia will obviously claim to be bodyguards, and Bodyguard 1 won't know better. Send a PM to: Bodyguard 2 Mafia 1 Mafia 2 . . . Mafia 6 Again, the real bodyguard can't tell the difference. PM3: Mafia 1 Mafia 2 . . . Mafia 6 You should be getting the point by now. If you aren't, you probably don't deserve to be mayor. The mafia mayor can do this a total of seven times, so that each bodyguard receives a PM with 6 other people on it. Each of those people insist that they are bodyguards, the real bodyguards won't know the difference, and no real bodyguard will be left out. Since no real bodyguard will be left out, nobody will stand out to say that they didn't receive a PM. This can't last forever, but it can do a lot of damage. One of two things will happen; either a bodyguard will stand out, according to qrs' plan. The other (real) bodyguards will recognize him as not being in their group, and they'll cry out. Confusion ensues, but people will soon realize that the mayor is a mafioso. However, this takes a bit of time, and the mafia gets a good bit of damage in. BUT---once the real situation is discovered, mafia's 1-6 lives are forfeit. Net gain for the town. The mafia could avoid some of this by mixing in more bodyguards to the PM's, but even then it's a loss for the mafia, gain for the town. The other possibility is if no bodyguard stands out (the mayor ignores qrs' plan) and a fake detective proclaims that the mayor is innocent. That's nice. However, that also assumes that no other detective checked on the mayor, which is unlikely to happen. Soon, the truth will come out, and the bodyguards will realize that the others in the message are fakes, and can be lynched/mad hatted/killed during the night/permabanned or whatever. End result: town is ahead. This will be a bit bloody, but about equal numbers of mafia and town will die here, so that's still +town. How to avoid all the mess: Basically, qrs' plan is needed. A bodyguard has to step forward. All the real bodyguards will know whether or not he was included in the PM to them, so you don't have to confirm anything. Of course, that bodyguard will probably be gunned down during the night, but whatever, sucks for him. | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On March 19 2008 09:32 Kau wrote: Ace, I don't see how scenario 1 would happen at all. Unless I don't understand how the game works (which is a definite possibility), this is how I see it using your numbers. What everyone knows: There are 7 bodyguards. Only the mayor knows which 7 people are bodyguards. Now, we assume that the mayor is also mafia, so he can coordinate with other mafia members. Since he knows who each bodyguard is, he will send each of the 7 bodyguards a pm. Each pm will have 7 people in it: 6 mafia and 1 bodyguard. Each bodyguard gets pm'ed back by the mafia members (6 different pm's for each bodyguard) and so they believe there are 7 bodyguards. No bodyguards are left out. Each list sent contains 7 people. Each bodyguard recieves 6 confirmation pm's. Or even this (Call the bodyguards A-G and the mafia 1-4): A's PM A,B,C,D,1,2,3 B's PM A,B,C,D,1,2,3 C's PM A,B,C,D,1,2,3 D's PM A,B,C,D,1,2,3 E's PM E,F,G,1,2,3,4 F's PM E,F,G,1,2,3,4 G's PM E,F,G,1,2,3,4 Only 4 mafia used in that scenario. The bodyguards will never know. EDIT: looks like I missed a lot of posts while typing that. Will read them now. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12973 Posts
On March 19 2008 09:59 qrs wrote: Or even this (Call the bodyguards A-G and the mafia 1-4): A's PM A,B,C,D,1,2,3 B's PM A,B,C,D,1,2,3 C's PM A,B,C,D,1,2,3 D's PM A,B,C,D,1,2,3 E's PM E,F,G,1,2,3,4 F's PM E,F,G,1,2,3,4 G's PM E,F,G,1,2,3,4 Only 4 mafia used in that scenario. The bodyguards will never know. Until E dies and gets revealed as bodyguard, and A-D go wtf. | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On March 19 2008 10:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Yes, if E dies by lynching, but that's a big if.Until E dies and gets revealed as bodyguard, and A-D go wtf. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12973 Posts
On March 19 2008 10:04 qrs wrote: Yes, if E dies by lynching, but that's a big if. Or gets hit by a vigilante, which isn't a big if. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
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Falcynn
United States3597 Posts
This does mean that the Pardoner is an easy kill, but hoping that we communicate and work together well as a town, we (again, hopefully) won't be in dire need of him. | ||
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Kau
Canada3502 Posts
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On March 19 2008 10:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Or gets hit by a vigilante, which isn't a big if. Sure it is. Why would a vigilante hit a random townie? If anything it's more likely that a vigilante or lynch might pick off one of the 4 mafia, but it's hardly guaranteed. The detectives are a different story. By sacrificing a detective, we will have definite knowledge, but that goes back to Ghar's plan: all the detectives will need to check the mayor. | ||
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wurm
Philippines2296 Posts
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SiZ.FaNtAsY
Korea (South)1497 Posts
What page does the game start? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On March 19 2008 10:10 Kau wrote: Guys, the reason I brought up this hole was because I didn't know that the mayor could be proven mafia or innocent. Since Ace cleared it up, sending fake pms as a mafia mayor will just get them killed. no problem, I am hoping people find holes so we can clear up any confusion about the plan and also find solutions where they are needed. | ||
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LucasWoJ
United States936 Posts
On March 19 2008 10:14 SiZ.FaNtAsY wrote: Oh my god 49 pages already What page does the game start? 18 | ||
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Dark.Carnival
United States5095 Posts
On March 19 2008 10:14 SiZ.FaNtAsY wrote: Oh my god 49 pages already What page does the game start? read op, he put a link to the day post. (and fyi its on page 18) | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On March 19 2008 09:58 CDRdude wrote: Much as I hate to admit it, I believe my plan is flawed. As per Kau's post, a Mafia can identify himself as a bodyguard, and all the bodyguards will believe he is telling the truth. The Bodyguard plan is not failsafe after all. Unless someone comes up with something new, we will have to waste some detective power as Ghar has been saying.After thinking this through, I have come to the conclusion that there is no flaw. + Show Spoiler [Why there is no flaw] + Okay. In this example, we will have 7 bodyguards, 1 mayor, 20 mafia, and a bunch of other people who aren't important, we can call them townies. If the mayor is mafia, and is smart, he will do this: Send a PM to: Bodyguard 1 Mafia 1 Mafia 2 . . . Mafia 6 As far as the legitimate bodyguard can tell, this is legit. The mafia will obviously claim to be bodyguards, and Bodyguard 1 won't know better. Send a PM to: Bodyguard 2 Mafia 1 Mafia 2 . . . Mafia 6 Again, the real bodyguard can't tell the difference. PM3: Mafia 1 Mafia 2 . . . Mafia 6 You should be getting the point by now. If you aren't, you probably don't deserve to be mayor. The mafia mayor can do this a total of seven times, so that each bodyguard receives a PM with 6 other people on it. Each of those people insist that they are bodyguards, the real bodyguards won't know the difference, and no real bodyguard will be left out. Since no real bodyguard will be left out, nobody will stand out to say that they didn't receive a PM. This can't last forever, but it can do a lot of damage. One of two things will happen; either a bodyguard will stand out, according to qrs' plan. The other (real) bodyguards will recognize him as not being in their group, and they'll cry out. Confusion ensues, but people will soon realize that the mayor is a mafioso. However, this takes a bit of time, and the mafia gets a good bit of damage in. BUT---once the real situation is discovered, mafia's 1-6 lives are forfeit. Net gain for the town. The mafia could avoid some of this by mixing in more bodyguards to the PM's, but even then it's a loss for the mafia, gain for the town. The other possibility is if no bodyguard stands out (the mayor ignores qrs' plan) and a fake detective proclaims that the mayor is innocent. That's nice. However, that also assumes that no other detective checked on the mayor, which is unlikely to happen. Soon, the truth will come out, and the bodyguards will realize that the others in the message are fakes, and can be lynched/mad hatted/killed during the night/permabanned or whatever. End result: town is ahead. This will be a bit bloody, but about equal numbers of mafia and town will die here, so that's still +town. How to avoid all the mess: Basically, qrs' plan is needed. A bodyguard has to step forward. All the real bodyguards will know whether or not he was included in the PM to them, so you don't have to confirm anything. Of course, that bodyguard will probably be gunned down during the night, but whatever, sucks for him. | ||
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Showtime!
Canada2938 Posts
On March 19 2008 08:55 Hot_Bid wrote: Unfortunately these two people playing are the same guy, the IP check confirms. Pretty BM if you ask me to register two accounts to play when it's so important for the game that you don't know who the other side are. You guys should vote on whether we should ban him  Edit: Sucks that some people have to cheat even in friendly forum games. That is obvious ban material. Get rid of him before he does damage to the game, or else we have to restart the game. | ||
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