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Jealous
10139 Posts
On March 17 2024 10:14 die_meatbaby wrote: what useless games are that? First is one page with pic only Second one is 4 page filter?? Are you scared to link us a good mafia game you played or what?? Those are the only two scum games I have, ever. | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
On March 17 2024 10:22 Jealous wrote: Those are the only two scum games I have, ever. I have like 6 games total and one on another site from many years ago that I don't remember. Fun fact, I was the one who invited Cal!x here from that site. Wonder how they are doing, they were good people. | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
On March 17 2024 10:25 die_meatbaby wrote: So you gonna tell me that you didn´t play as scum since 2008 on any page (you now mafiascum, etc,.. is also okey)???? What the fuck should I do with that? Do you at least have a Towngame i can read? Like maybe if it´s possibole not from decades ago. Frankly I don't care what you "should" do with anything. Calm down. https://tl.net/forum/mafia/510385-presidential-election-mini-mafia?user=Jealous https://tl.net/forum/mafia/508622-newbie-mafia-xxi?user=Jealous https://tl.net/forum/mafia/513316-newbie-student-mafia-xxiii?user=Jealous https://tl.net/forum/mafia/525420-ms-paint-off-mafia?user=Jealous https://tl.net/forum/mafia/67925-tl-mafia-2-gg?user=fanatacist These are all my games ever played minus that one that is on some other site from 10 years ago that I don't remember. Starcraft2mafia or something? Anyway, if you are judging me for only playing 8 games of mafia in 16 years, it is what it is. | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
On March 17 2024 10:31 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Holy shit Jealous You're fanatacist? How did I not know this. The legend, the one and only 😎 | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
On March 17 2024 00:55 Jealous wrote: This is kinda my thinking too tbh. I'm kinda worried that the mason chat, at least the way I approach it, will only serve to make me feel someone is more townie due to the mere exposure effect even if it not objectively deserved. I'm looking into something at the moment and will be posting stuff I find along the way that isn't relevant to my main research target. For example - and of course, these are basically D1 reads, blah blah - DP's EoN1 list post has three out of four confirmed town in the scum pile + DMB: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=188#3755 Oats is "Do Not Lynch" tier, too. So is Palmar and iamperfection. Personally I don't think I can ascribe too much AI into this, but it is interesting how much things have changed since then. | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
On March 17 2024 10:39 die_meatbaby wrote: Of course I judge you for playing this less games.... If Jeouls is just Town playing bad as hell and also in easy lynch means that there are possible 2 mafia voting j right now and 1 on Palmar... I scared that we have her an insane scum team like Palmar, Rels, DP More realistic Rels, DP, Jat Rels, Palmar, Jat But thats not a Townread on J. I will check your other games first. thanks for the links Idk, I think there have been several town players in this game that have played objectively worse than me, regardless of how many games they've played. Obviously I'm biased, but game count doesn't matter IMO. | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
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Jealous
10139 Posts
On March 17 2024 10:42 Vivax wrote: I don't know him but judging by the words he picks he's partying at a zerg spawning pool Okay, that's a step too far. My life for Aiur. | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
On August 16 2017 00:48 Jealous wrote: https://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_loftus_the_fiction_of_memory ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Manifesto7/januaryfacepalm.jpg) | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
😂😂😂 | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
Not really my question. My question was what you thought was "so bad" about MY play. | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
On March 17 2024 11:27 die_meatbaby wrote: .............no words needed......... Fair point tbh. | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
On March 17 2024 12:16 Vivax wrote: Jealous I might be willing to unvote you on one condition: Don‘t case MZ or Palmar. Acknowledge that Rels calling TTS mafia and then deferring to a random lurker lynch is scummy, and case him instead. I've been meaning to read Rels again anyway and once I found out I have 24 more hours I kinda clocked out but I'll do that tomorrow EST. | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
On March 17 2024 15:09 DarthPunk wrote: Pocketing strong townies: The first thing that made me think I was being hard pocketed by palmar was the fact that his progression on his read on me entirely oriented around his own survival day one. For example, Palmar does this thing that struck me as odd at the time, where despite having the most posts in the game by far on day 1, he says I am null and he has only read me in context of other players. The thing that struck me at the time was that he was commenting on my alingment without reading my filter, but that is not really the issue here. The issue is that his read on me was almost entirely turned around by the fact that I defended him from a lynch day one. + Show Spoiler + On March 05 2024 22:25 Palmar wrote: DP is a null, but I've only read his posts in the context of reading other players. I did like him calling out iamperfection for being wrong about how to deal with Vivax (I'm reading Vivax right now). But some of his other stuff that I've seen has been decidedly meh. Problem is, he has posted so goddamn much I don't even know what I should read of his postings. I guess I'll go find a list post or something. But he should maybe just be off the table today just because he has a long filter. On March 06 2024 06:54 Palmar wrote: As for other people. I stand by the sandroba townread, koshi is probably town too. I like Oats a lot more now for actually making sense. I also like JSL and Vivax. I'd need VE to actually step up some again, same with Trfel. I had some reads on both but they're weak. DMB is also a weak maybe townread. iamperfection is making sense, but the guy is smart enough to make sense when there is no pressure on him as either alignment. DP is a little more wildcardy to me this game, I haven't always agreed with his takes. TTS, JEalous, Hapa just need to be policied out. I've not read or even noticed Rels at all which is a bad omen. rayn is weird to me. I'm again getting the feeling that he's just posting a lot and saying very little, also I really, really don't like that he's not pressuring marv at all in the mason QT it seems. Idk about CopCake, nothjin one way or the other. MZ looks kinda bad, but it's very weak as I haven't really read him. On March 06 2024 07:16 Palmar wrote: Btw, yes I know I'm biased because I'm being defended. But this is EXTREMELY good reasoning for me being town. The bolded stuff, that is. I don't agree with his other points. I can do well as scum and I would probably never fakeclaim anything as mafia on day 1. I'm mostly emphasizing this because it makes DP look really, really good. He's not just correct about my alignment, he is correct for (mostly) the right reasons. On March 06 2024 19:10 Palmar wrote: Mafia can be right, but because they don't have to actually think to reach the right conclusion they're rarely right for the right reasons. DP is very high on my town list. Some of the stuff I like him for isn't even alignment indicative (and some is). He thinks reasonably about the game and is very active. I don't think going after him is a viable avenue. This also happened with marv: + Show Spoiler + On March 06 2024 06:46 Palmar wrote: Marv is very, very, very likely to be mafia. I already didn't love his stance on the Vivax thing and his tone in the thread. Then this line of thinking is really what's sealing the deal. This isn't a valid complaint. I'm not gonna call marv bad when he votes for me. In fact, I kinda understand why he voted for me early on. I had done very little as I was busy yesterday. Today I produced a long filter with all kinds of reads and explanations of them and that did absolutely nothing to budge his opinion on me. I don't really know what sandroba thinks of me but he did come back and kinda changed his mind, at least moved off the scumread a little bit. But marv is dug in. He is not this certain about my alignment if he's town. There should be some doubt in him. I actually think Oats looks a lot better for this observation Like this is what I expect people to do who don't just want a kill. I don't think marv is bad, I just think he's scum. And if ANYONE buys this logic with me dead, that person is an infinite moron. This is not true. On March 06 2024 07:18 Palmar wrote: Because I have infinite faith in marv coming around. 2-3 hours ago I didn't actually think I was going to be killed. I NEED to pre-empt the "well he was playing like mafia" bullshit and "I would never call him mafia as scum because it's risky cause people think I'm the Palmar oracle" that he has already posted in the thread. If I do get lynched this needs to be in the thread. That's why I'm pointing it out now. On March 06 2024 08:39 Palmar wrote: Btw marv backing off means I retract the 100% scum when I flip town thing. I saw the mafia greedily considering a NK on me to make marv look bad and I successfully protected town from their machinations. Doesn't make marv town, just not lock scum. Weird marv progression by palmar, entirely tied to his survival and marvs stance on him. Marv and Palmar have a history as well, so all the expectations that palmar has on marv for being correct the same should work the other way. On March 07 2024 00:17 Palmar wrote: You know, if sandro says marv is town, I'll happily accept that and hold on to further shadethrowing in that direction. Makes the game a lot easier for me if I just assume the two of you are town and work from there. Palmar calls marv mafia out of the blue because marv is trying to lynch palmar, marv stops trying to lynch palmar then palmar happily flips his read citing Sandro. I find this highly problematic for Town!Palmar, he is townreading and pocketing strong players when they call him town, and scum reading them when they call him mafia. If he was actually town I would expect him to be more agentic in his reads and the prosecution of a scum hunting agenda. Which brings me to my second set of problems. Interactions with flipped mafia: Palmar 'scumreads' TTS day one for basically his first set of posts, but also undermines the read here: + Show Spoiler + On March 05 2024 23:05 Palmar wrote: Dumbest scumread ever is that TTS just casually assumed he'd be alive by day 4 or something. Also even talking about a random voting stage like we're some plebeian third world mafia site is pretty scummy. But he's done nothing so there's no read. Good policy lynch though. Calls for his PLynch here: + Show Spoiler + On March 06 2024 06:54 Palmar wrote: As for other people. I stand by the sandroba townread, koshi is probably town too. I like Oats a lot more now for actually making sense. I also like JSL and Vivax. I'd need VE to actually step up some again, same with Trfel. I had some reads on both but they're weak. DMB is also a weak maybe townread. iamperfection is making sense, but the guy is smart enough to make sense when there is no pressure on him as either alignment. DP is a little more wildcardy to me this game, I haven't always agreed with his takes. TTS, JEalous, Hapa just need to be policied out. I've not read or even noticed Rels at all which is a bad omen. rayn is weird to me. I'm again getting the feeling that he's just posting a lot and saying very little, also I really, really don't like that he's not pressuring marv at all in the mason QT it seems. Idk about CopCake, nothjin one way or the other. MZ looks kinda bad, but it's very weak as I haven't really read him. Again calls for a lynch buried in other townies here: + Show Spoiler + On March 06 2024 08:43 Palmar wrote: This is just random and for post-game purposes. We actually have like 4 objectively correct lynches (that is correct from a "how to play mafia" perspective). 1) Vivax - All day 1 claimers should be policy lynched without question 2) TTS - Complete inactivity 3) Hapa - replacement and demotivation is something that happens much more often as mafia 4) Trfel - He literally is voting without having any clue why But for various reasons I'm not really pushing any of those lynches. Guess I'm bad. On March 07 2024 01:22 Palmar wrote: Because he and Trfel are different. I liked Trfel's posts, but just dropping the game and fucking off is a lynchable offense. I didn't like TTSs posts. Note that I haven't revisited TTS at all this night, so that list may be out of date, although I can't remember him posting. A policy lynch is a lynch suggestion that is independent of perceived alignment, but rather based on a policy of expected town behavior. TTS could fit into both categories (policy lynch a lurker and lynching him for bad posting) but obviously when combined he goes into the scum pool. This is why I'm joking around with you seeing a contradiction in saying Trfel is a policy lynch candidate (or really, a vig target candidate) and then saying I actually think his posts look townie. If you think that's a problem, then you just don't know what a policy lynch is. This post is way weird and over the top. He goes in at length to talk about why TTS is mafia and not a policy lynch, but has not pushed him as a viable candidate at all. It's purely distancing, he wants to get credit for calling TTS mafia, but he doesn't actually want to pursue the 'read' + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2024 19:12 Palmar wrote: TTS was never a "read" per se. I noticed he said something like "I'm not going to do anything till day 4" which to me was weird because he expected to be alive by then. But I also recognized it was a very minor thing. He did post though, and I remember someone asking about the difference between hapa and TTS in my views, and that is exactly that. Hapa just straight up left. TTS made some bad posts and left. Trfel made some decent posts and left. I considered them all vigi targets/possible policy lynches on day 1/night 1, but obviously each situation is different. I can't claim I "caught" TTS, he was just mafia by measurable heuristics. This response last night should have pinged me more, basically he is saying that someone was not a scum read (untrue by his own words) and was just mafia by heuristics (how is this different to a scum read?) and therefore didn't need to pursue the read he had on mafia day one? Thats just fucking mafia gymnastics right there. Again with oats: Early distancing: + Show Spoiler + On March 05 2024 06:22 Palmar wrote: I agree with you being town. I'm like 2 pages into the game so all my reads are just random feelings right now but I like you, Vivax, iamp and DP. I don't like Oats. On March 05 2024 09:54 Palmar wrote: Oats scummy read is for announcing he wants to be mayor but then I skimmed a few more points and he didn’t really push the idea he should be. On March 05 2024 19:41 Palmar wrote: So I'm going to talk about a few people now. Consider this just rambling thoughts about the thread that I'm absolutely not going to read in full. Probably gonna do this in a few parts so my reads might evolve from now until I've done the last people I want to talk about. Oatsmaster Both initially, and currently, the reason he's my tentative #1 lynch target is based on exactly one thing, this: Go find that post in his filter, then read the following maybe... 20 posts? I don't think there is a single one of them where he is actually pushing to get himself elected as mayor. Ironically he scolded someone else for doing that same thing. There really isn't much else to it. The case is simply "He said he wanted to be mayor but then none of his posting seems to point towards him actually wanting to be mayor". It's far from lock scum case, it's mostly just a bad play regardless of alignment, but it's... maybe easier to explain as an attempt to do something bold as mafia. I'm gonna read more before I plant a vote or anything. Look how fast and easily he turns around on his scumread on oats + Show Spoiler + On March 05 2024 19:47 Palmar wrote: [red]I've lynched Oats for being bad town before. I'm perfectly willing to listen to ideas for other people to kill. Palmar never wanted to lynch oats, even when he calls out oats for the exact and only reason he can be called out that early. A player of palmar's calibre, confidence and hubris does not just bend over like this unless he WANTS TO. Oats is basically ignored again BTW until the red check + Show Spoiler + On March 07 2024 17:05 Palmar wrote: Like 90% mafia is basically the best shot we can get. I’m sorry Oats but not much to do about it. If you’re town just get to work and leave a strong legacy. Look at this subtle suggestion on a VE wagon btw, I say here that I am glad I don't have to lynch VE when there is oats on the table and Palmar says: He is basically soft suggesting a swap onto VE here, to me who is KNOWN to fuck around with wagons at the deadline. but then we are back to the correct play that Palmar HAS to go with or claim mafia. Stay the course on Oats. + Show Spoiler + On March 09 2024 06:59 Palmar wrote: Slam - we lynch slam if Oats flips non-miller town. The frame idea is statistically so unlikely Oats - we lynch Oats today because despite his efforts, there is like 90% chance of him flipping mafia. He does look and say townie things which is pretty well played, but the odds of any other random player flipping red just happen to be significantly lower Frame math: Slam check 1/18 (lynches + himself) players = 5.56% chance he checks Oats Framer frames 1/14 players (21 - 2 lynches - 5 mafia) = 7.14% chance Oats gets framed This means there's like... 0.3% chance a framer hits the same target the cop checks (but obviously intiution skews this a lot) it's still the best play to do it like that. On March 09 2024 07:11 Palmar wrote: Essentially it comes down to: I really need to filter dive CopCake, DMB, MZ, Rels and JSL because there's like 3 mafia in there. One is probably either Oats or Slam, unless we're just the unluckiest town in the world. Also if Slam and Vivax are genuinely town and both claimed on day 1, we deserve to lose. There's gonna be a hidden mafia there somewhere. On March 09 2024 07:26 Palmar wrote: But yeah, I simply cannot worry about the worst case scenario (Framer) because if you lose to a successful frame there really isn't much to be done. All the other scenarios ranging from salvage-able to great Oats is mafia: great Slam is mafia: good, 1 for 1 is acceptable Oats is miller: salvageable, at least slam gets confirmed And mafia needs to shoot slam, so Vivax can play mind games whether or not to jail slam in that last scenario. Mafia can't just RB slam, because they need to RB DP if DP is town which I think is the case. Subtly hinting at a swap off, directly contradicting all his 'stay the course' posts. + Show Spoiler + On March 09 2024 07:32 Palmar wrote: Like I think you've done everything right if you're town Oats, and if you're mafia massive kudos for wool stuff. I am NEVER lynching you here without a red check. I'll stick around for a little bit while doing other stuff, but I'm just not confident enough in my reads to actually move somewhere else. I think. On March 09 2024 07:50 Palmar wrote: To be fair I'm voting a townread Oats as well You know after all that bullshit on staying the course, palmar never votes for oats. This should have been a death sentence right here. I will admit I was wrong on Palmar, I was pocketed by him and defended him through 2 lynch attempts. but this here is blatant mafia play for a player of the caliber of palmar, he does know better. For someone who if town, is not confident in his reads enough to pursue them in any fashion whatsoever, he is confident enough to NOT LYNCH A RED CHECK ON DAY 2. Just mafia. Now we get to META Basically my analysis of palmars play in this game vs his last game is town is as follows: This game: 1.) not agentic in pursuing mafia reads 2.) self awareness of stylistic differences and explaining them away. 3.) referencing a lack of confidence to excuse scummy things away. Last game: 1.) very confident and forceful in scumhunting 2.) leads wagon on vivax and pushes hard for his lynch choices. 3.)extreme levels of confidence and arrogance. From Town!palmars own analysis last game + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2023 18:15 Palmar wrote: Some other random thoughts. HF slides a little towards scummy Still think DMB is more likely to be town There is a world where we need to attack Koshi and HF just to get them to do something. Shooting Chez is a good idea if we have a vigilante. He's never going to reveal his alignment through analysis. Checking into the less useful good players (marv, rayn, HF) Another thing, I think this list is important. From most to least influential day 1 town play (disregarding some of the bits I haven't caught up on from last night): Palmar DP Trfel Marv Koshi DMB Rayn Sandroba HF Slam Chezinu Aside from the trolls (bottom 2) I think it's somewhat important to think about how much people actually tried to get shit done on day 1. This is not a "bottom mafia, top town" list, but rather an indicator on how much I think people tried to get their vision of the game done in the game on day 1. Mafia likes to not be the initiating factor in town, but rather just follow along. On December 13 2023 06:59 Palmar wrote: Isn't that clear? Obviously the primary contributor to the day is the person who got his choice of lynch killed. I didn't say it was necessarily a positive contribution. The list is based on how hard and successfully people pushed their ideas in the thread You know mafia likes to sheep more than they like to lead. It's an important list, but only as extra evidence. No one got more shit done on day 1 than me. Doesn't really matter if I'm right or wrong. I will allow you to call me bad for keeping him alive thus far, but I am redeeming myself in the end, it is impossible he is not mafia in this spot. He will certainly have a very confident and persuasive defense. but to paraphrase the great man himself: Judge him on the things that he did or failed to do this game. In the words of our fallen town heroes: I don't like the spoilering of things that won't work with your world view, but damn this is a good post overall IMO. Happy to be parked here on Palmar for now. | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
I know this apparently is not on the table right now but I just wanna point out as I save things for tomorrow, isn't this just downright smug from DMB? The person who did nothing in the first 24 hours of this cycle and barges in demanding shit, then just posts more throwaway one-liners outside of pressuring me to provide her with links to games I played 8 years ago? Just wanted to put it out there. It's not in the current lynchpool and I'm already being painted as misogynist so it is what it is, just wanna make it clear that this is not D2 DMB or D3 DMB, etc. | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
??? | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
On March 17 2024 12:19 Rels wrote: I knew this was familiar. Here is a post from 4 days prior: And another 2 days later: So he has been reading (or possibly only claims to have read if scum) MZ's filter. Maybe only once, likely partially based on his last post, but he's done it. Why does he start again on March 16? If he's town, it's hard to believe. If he's scum, it's because he claimed to have done it, but probably just didn't and just posted what he wanted to post on MZ anyway, and then had forgotten about it a few days later. It also clashes with this post: "I've not really bothered to filter at all" is provably wrong based on the 2 posts I've quoted above. Rels on fire with this one IMO. Read it earlier and I was like "I need to reread this when I get home" and it still slaps. | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
On March 17 2024 12:50 Rels wrote: Like, we agree on things that I've not said in the thread, so it cannot be a pure "I'm gonna copy this guy" play. I agreed with him telling you that one scum game is not a scum meta for instance, and I think he's the only one that said it Who, me? Lol. This level of pronouns is beyond me. | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
On March 17 2024 11:22 die_meatbaby wrote: This game. https://tl.net/forum/mafia/510385-presidential-election-mini-mafia @vivax @dp He was Town there. survived until end. One time he was set to be lynched but it changed. guys compare this with him now..... Compare a photo of yourself today to yourself 8 years ago and I'm sure you will find some differences there. To implicate me of being static throughout those 8 years is as nonsensical as believing any of us have not changed in the past 8 years. | ||
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Jealous
10139 Posts
On March 17 2024 22:52 Vivax wrote: You should be. We‘re lynching Jealous and when he flips scum you should shake When I flip town remember this, too. Vivax is setting up "can't be DP." | ||
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EPT
I am putting myself in an incredibly difficult spot when the person I know best flips town. It’s a terrible play. The only logical explanation is I am town and I think you are mafia. 
