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Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 13 2023 17:51 GMT
#1641
On December 14 2023 02:38 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2023 02:23 Holyflare wrote:
On December 14 2023 02:22 Alakaslam wrote:
When Raynpelikoneet next speaks I will pay better attention than I have to Sandroba. I ought not be so biased


What are your current goals for the game and who do you think is mafia? Feel like you've kind of petered out since end of day 1 and are just meandering and commenting a bit and I think you've started angling towards me again without actually saying much about it.

This is correct, and the result of reading Rayn's filter.


What about rayn's filter is convincing?
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
December 13 2023 17:53 GMT
#1642
On December 14 2023 02:48 Trfel wrote:
I'm just going to vote for Chezinu, I think he is just mafia. We had a game in the past where we were town together and talked quite a bit, and a game in the past where we were scum together, in fact I think maybe two games, and his effort and engagement with the game feel very scummy. He's capable of much more as town, we all know this. You shouldn't have to beg him to interact with the game. He's even made plenty of posts, the time is there, the desire to do anything about solving the game is not.

##vote Chezinu

The house of brown has found it time to end your mafia-ness.

Scummy
Computer says mafia
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 13 2023 17:55 GMT
#1643
On December 14 2023 02:48 Trfel wrote:
I'm just going to vote for Chezinu, I think he is just mafia. We had a game in the past where we were town together and talked quite a bit, and a game in the past where we were scum together, in fact I think maybe two games, and his effort and engagement with the game feel very scummy. He's capable of much more as town, we all know this. You shouldn't have to beg him to interact with the game. He's even made plenty of posts, the time is there, the desire to do anything about solving the game is not.

##vote Chezinu

The house of brown has found it time to end your mafia-ness.


Are these really your only current thoughts? Nothing about anyone that's talking?
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
December 13 2023 17:58 GMT
#1644
On December 14 2023 02:51 Holyflare wrote:
Trfel

+ Show Spoiler [posts] +


#72
- This is the beginning of when trfel didn't like sandro. I think the highlighted part of sandro's post is extremely waffley and bad so like that he's picking it out to pre-empt what he's about to say and get a response to it. ++

#74 - Sandro responds and to me, it looks like he should be town reading slam in #73 but somehow in his original conclusion he downplays the town read. Trfel picks up on this in this post and his next post (#75), indicating that Sandro makes absolutely no read on slam whatsoever even though he writes a lot of lines about him so it's just kind of pointless. ++

There's a bunch of questions thrown out in the next few posts and at least he follows up a bit with sandro. Not sure I like that in #118 he just kinda fobs sandro's response off but I like that he expands what he's thinking to DP. Sandro's post is riddled with open-ended unsureness that didn't seem to have a purpose. I like even more that he tries to question Slam over Slam thinking that all the reactions were overblow and it could just be mafia/mafia theatre. I'm not sure I like that Slam post even (will investigate) but Trfel does a good job of trying to dig into someone that looks like they have a thought process incongruent with theirs. ++

#120 Oh, he basically says exactly what I said above and takes back the town read. Pretty good imo. ++
Same kinda vibe with questioning DP in #124

Next few posts are just a bit of back and forth with marv interjecting and talking to DP about the sureity of his sandro read and it not being very sure. I think #136 the ending feels a bit robotic "I'm very interested to see how he follows it up" is just so generic. I also think #143 is also extremely generic in a way that the post is too formulaicly worded. Like he's just going through the motions of scum reading sandro and waiting for the next step of his programming to happen without interjecting real thoughts. --

Actually kind of like the highlighted bits being pointed out in #146, they don't really make any sense to me (DP saying that mafia likes to take strong commitments early ???). I actually hate DP in these interactions lol, good thing I didn't pay enough attention to them. ++ trfel

The next few posts in #156, #157, #159 are all good responses to DP making wtf accusations and then a weird unvote. I like that Trfel wanted it followed up.

Gonna stop linking to posts now, cba. #167 is a good question to vivax. Not sure exactly what vivax was going to achieve with his sandro question and it shows trfel is still interested in interactions in and around sandro.

#169 is basically a scum read on DP without actually saying as much. I'm not sure why he stops short of outright calling DP mafia. Don't really like it. I guess you could say he doesn't really make a conclusion on sandro too although you could argue that's just a feeler content creation case with more poignant accusations. Don't like this post regardless ---

#257 Quite like the initial points on Vivax that trfel talks about but the second half of it seems like something extra tacked on for no reason. If he doesn't know what to make of the order or if it's alignment indicative why does it matter? Feels like adding words for the sake of it and a bit hypocritical in the same respect as his accusation to sandro earlier. --

#262 Think sandro mentioned this in one of his recent posts but I also don't like that he callously threw out the vivax suspicion beforehand, found out it wasn't actually true and then still used it to almost double down on ANOTHER meaningless reason to not like what vivax said. Vivax could have quite easily caught up by skimming and then gone back to poke at questions so seems pretty mediocre. ---

As a caveat to the above, in this post above he mentions that he doesn't like that DP has fallen off after the questioning of him (doesn't bring back up the other DP points he disliked before, at least not yet. Just kinda outs it which is fine imo. Don't hate it.) +

He makes some throwaway question to me asking why I think rayn is mafia, has some follow up with rayn about vivax's posts again in #272 as if that line of thought even means something anymore. Meh. At least he acknowledges that in the same post and is just more concerned with Vivax's lack of involvement.

#287 Points out that I agree with what Vivax is saying (has a overarching view of most of Vivax's posts/stances). Will await to see the conclusion to what I say before questioning whether this is a good post or not because I'd be extra curious about what I said, given my answer was something crap like "I forgot".

#328 tries to get vivax (a scum read) to comment on DP (presumably a scum read but kind of unsaid). Good follow up I guess, shows thinking about the game at least, even if an easy post. +

#335 A correct take but not sure I understand why he's more concerned about my "overall picture of play" when I've made like 2 posts. Here is where he mentions that DP is probably asleep and wants my thoughts too. Mmmm. Questionable post imo. --

#388 No reads list but Vivax/DP/Koshi (first mention)/Sandro are in his suspect list. Not sure where Koshi came from or how.

fuck me I'm bored of investing myself into playing this game it's tedious af, just gonna summarise the rest




lot more back and forth with DP about really silly nitpicking points imo. I don't think trfel's points are that bad that DP fell off after the push on him and did not much (will double check between when DP stopped pushing and went to bed to clarify). I also don't think his point about the marv push was that bad either.

Koshi read is phoning it in but fine. Shared sentiment.

#428 is a bad post (the one talking about DP sleeping with no other push in the thread). ------

his posts about DP calling sandro basically town are correct and DP's arguments are pretty bad faith

voting for vivax is consistent and I don't think #666 is that bad given his posts previously, it's pretty much just a summary of what he's been saying, not a hipster new read thing

I also kinda liked that he stopped interacting with the DP scum read, the frustration seemed real and I dunno if he'd be that frustrated as mafia? Although would he perhaps be more accusatory if he was town and thought DP was mafia and then go after him more? Maybe he's getting frustrated because he's being misrepresented and can't really fight back properly as mafia? One to think about more.

#805 is a whatever defence of marv. Perhaps unwarranted and feels a bit like his defence of me for little reason.

#815 possibly like this post

#823 does mafia trfel really make this post to a town vivax if he knows this to be true? I'm not so sure he actually does.


tl;dr

1) I think Trfel's opening posts on sandro are decent but the suspicion drops off the face of the earth. I don't like that.

2) His argument with DP is extra pointless from DP's side. I don't think the arguments that Trfel presents calling out DP are that bad other than the sleeping thing obviously which is a bit shit but not specifically what he meant. I need to check the timeline here for when DP stopped pushing Trfel and then went to bed because if it's straight away then Trfel's points are bad. If DP stays in the thread a bit aimlessly doing nothing then Trfel's points hold a lot more merit.

3) I think his Vivax suspicion is fine but he throws in a lot of extrenuous details into it that are basically meaningless and he eventually admits that. He defaults to the same kind of argument that he thinks DP is being mafia for (no thread presence or drive) which is an ok read. I actually liked his initial questioning of Vivax over his questions to Sandroba. It shows that he was interested in people interacting with his original scum read.

4) He kind of throws out some free town reads (or at least pressure appeasing reads) on me and marv out of the blue which I feel like I've seen him do before in a previous game, or at least it tickles my brain saying I have somewhere but I can't really get a feel for why he does it. Just seems out of the blue.

5) His argument with DP I think he was mostly correct on and DP was arguing in bad faith. He gets very frustrated with being misrepresented but it doesn't seem like he cares to go the extra step to call DP mafia here or campaign for him. Instead, he leaves and comes back and decides to ignore DP to stop the back and forth (which is fine) but I think he'd be more vocal about suspicions here on his return.

6) I really think that #823 is a post a mafia trfel probably doesn't make to a vivax that he knows is town?

7) I get the overall impression that Trfel is kinda sticking to scum reads and hasn't had much evolution of them? They seem a bit static, even if it appears he's questioning them.




I dunno lol, could genuinely see him being town or mafia. I'd be more inclined to call him town, although I'm fully ready to be burnt by that position. Feel like I've wasted my precious time playing this game now.


Feel like you arrived at the same place as me after I looked through Trfel’s filter earlier, just with a lot more effort attached lol

Don’t know if I like that or not

Also mid wifoming myself about DPs kill, he really wanted Trfel dead.

As you may tell, I’m suffering a confidence crisis on what I’m supposed to do today
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
December 13 2023 17:59 GMT
#1645
On December 14 2023 02:55 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2023 02:48 Trfel wrote:
I'm just going to vote for Chezinu, I think he is just mafia. We had a game in the past where we were town together and talked quite a bit, and a game in the past where we were scum together, in fact I think maybe two games, and his effort and engagement with the game feel very scummy. He's capable of much more as town, we all know this. You shouldn't have to beg him to interact with the game. He's even made plenty of posts, the time is there, the desire to do anything about solving the game is not.

##vote Chezinu

The house of brown has found it time to end your mafia-ness.


Are these really your only current thoughts? Nothing about anyone that's talking?

Yeah.

Crazy lack of engagement.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
December 13 2023 17:59 GMT
#1646
Okay HF you put in a ton of work, I'm ready to call you not mafia for today.
The method which you are using I don't think is correct though. Mafia will try to do their best to emulate their town play in every post, focusing on all the posts like that and accumulating town / mafia points won't work imo.
I think focusing on a few bad posts and trying to see if they ever make sense from a town perspective is the way to go.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 13 2023 18:02 GMT
#1647
On December 14 2023 02:59 sandroba wrote:
Okay HF you put in a ton of work, I'm ready to call you not mafia for today.
The method which you are using I don't think is correct though. Mafia will try to do their best to emulate their town play in every post, focusing on all the posts like that and accumulating town / mafia points won't work imo.
I think focusing on a few bad posts and trying to see if they ever make sense from a town perspective is the way to go.


the points are meaningless I just put them down for my own sake I don't add them up

the conclusions matter the most
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 13 2023 18:02 GMT
#1648
I also would 0% read in to effort making me town lol
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 13 2023 18:03 GMT
#1649
On December 14 2023 02:55 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2023 02:48 Trfel wrote:
I'm just going to vote for Chezinu, I think he is just mafia. We had a game in the past where we were town together and talked quite a bit, and a game in the past where we were scum together, in fact I think maybe two games, and his effort and engagement with the game feel very scummy. He's capable of much more as town, we all know this. You shouldn't have to beg him to interact with the game. He's even made plenty of posts, the time is there, the desire to do anything about solving the game is not.

##vote Chezinu

The house of brown has found it time to end your mafia-ness.


Are these really your only current thoughts? Nothing about anyone that's talking?
I mean I have other thoughts but they don't really go anywhere.

I really do think that marvellosity is town, I had thought that raynpelikoneet was maybe town but I can't remember much of what he has done so I don't think he is town anymore. Palmar I think is town. Koshi and Alakaslam I think are town. Sandroba I truly think is town.

I realize I have too many townreads, I have some work to do to figure it out but there are reasons for them all being town.

Marvellosity: feels very present and engaging while having less drive/presence than the marvellosity of old. But I don't think the latter part of that sentence makes him mafia. I generally like the places he is choosing to engage and think it makes sense for him. I don't have a great explanation but it feels like town to me.
Palmar: The involvement and directness and aggressiveness all indicate town to me. I feel like when Palmar is this heavily involved early on he is very likely to be town. I remember one game this was false, I think, but I think I'm willing to bet on it for now at least.
Koshi: His reads make sense and it seems like he is critically thinking about the game, even if he is doing so in a painfully annoying way.
Alakaslam: high involvement, good thoughts and presence. If he is mafia it would be an absolutely outstanding performance, I can't entirely put it past him since I know he loves playing as mafia but if he isn't town this game I don't know how I'd ever townread him again.
sandroba: read him as a defensive waffle and he's town. I like his involvement as of late, even as the thread sentiment has soured against him he's stayed involved and hasn't given up. I think this is a strong town indicator. I actually like his thoughts, they're unique and show that he's thinking, even if I don't always (or even often) agree with the sentiments and conclusions.

Holyflare and raynpelikoneet I don't know, I really think Chezinu is mafia and needs to go.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
December 13 2023 18:04 GMT
#1650
Not sure how to feel about Trfel saying I'm maybe town now? Would town Trfel feel that way when I'm trying to get him lynched? Would mafia Trfel be worried that I look town and feel hard to justify the scum read further? Kinda wifom
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 13 2023 18:04 GMT
#1651
well damn guess we're all town better pack our bags and live happily ever after :D
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 13 2023 18:05 GMT
#1652
##vote trfel

Figure out some scum reads
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
December 13 2023 18:05 GMT
#1653
wow now the full town read, it hits me on the feels man, fuck
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 13 2023 18:07 GMT
#1654
I won't pretend to be a Chezinu whisperer or anything but if I could ever read him as mafia then he's mafia here.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 13 2023 18:08 GMT
#1655
On December 14 2023 03:05 Holyflare wrote:
##vote trfel

Figure out some scum reads
I have one, take it or leave it.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
December 13 2023 18:11 GMT
#1656
Yeah, Chez is prob mafia here
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 13 2023 18:13 GMT
#1657
On December 14 2023 03:08 Trfel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2023 03:05 Holyflare wrote:
##vote trfel

Figure out some scum reads
I have one, take it or leave it.


I already have that read and I'd like some more. What do you think of DMB? You make no mention of them in the entirety of your list.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
December 13 2023 18:13 GMT
#1658
Everyone thinks I'm town, can we stop pretending and get some votes between Trfel, Chez and DMB please. All of these are positive ev votes
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
December 13 2023 18:15 GMT
#1659
On December 12 2023 10:31 die_meatbaby wrote:
palmar is simply trying to convince everyone here that they should vote for Vivax. But he is doeing it just in a strange way
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2023 00:45 Palmar wrote:
On December 12 2023 00:44 sandroba wrote:
On December 12 2023 00:32 Palmar wrote:
On December 11 2023 23:52 sandroba wrote:
On December 11 2023 22:47 Vivax wrote:
There's nothing exonerating Sandro in his filter.
It's mostly just generic reasons to call me mafia and he can't even find the text pieces to prove what he's saying. I've been far from a blend-in playstyle.

This post here also shows a mafia mindset, not arguing against the substance of what I'm saying, which is that his first post he did not read the thread and tried to reach a conclusion about my alignment, but instead he followed thread sentiment and quoted I few things from my post to appear to be contributing.

In the post above he dismisses it as generic and quibbles about me not finding text pieces, which is classic mafia sentiment for "you are accusing me for the wrong reasons"

This btw is a genuinely very scummy post. Not because of it's context but because of the thought process behind it.

Sandroba can easily just say "well Palmar looks town so I go murder train on Vivax", but instead he does "independent research" and comes to the same conclusion to justify his vote. It's forced "case".

This is a scummy post if Vivax flips mafia and it's also scummy if Vivax flips town.

But the good thing is that it locks in Sandroba's vote on Vivax so I don't care for now. Can only lynch one dude today.

The main reason I though you looked town is that you were trying to get traction on vivax, who I thought was likely mafia - not that you were super town and because of that vivax should be mafia - that doesn't make any sense, and I wouldn't trust you without being convinced myself even if I though you were town.
Sharing my reasoning there helps me clarify and reassess my thoughts, get feedback from the thread which helps my read and getting reads off others and also helps to convice other players of my desired lynch, all pro town things.
The way you are trying to set this up and your reasoning is not making any sense, it feels either like pushing mafia agenda or if you had a pre conceived notion that I must be mafia, which I'm trying to get to the bottom of


shush the town people are talking.

Be a good boy and keep your vote on Vivax.


I mean for sure right know it´s the best option to vote on him because his start in the game was so scumy, but when he rolled mafia in older games he just posts random stuff like memes, strange one liners for a laugh and didn´t really try to make wagon like he did here. Like this last posts he made, feeling like me at my second game where I got lynched as a Doctor on D1 and tried just to convince them so strong that I am town and blue.


On the other side i really don´t know who else should get voted here, because nobody looks so scum as he do atm.



Actually think this is a bad DMB post, it has all the components of a mafia post:

1) Throw shade at palmar

2) Say the vote on vivax is correct

3) Give a line that shows caution that it might not be the right lynch because he's not doing what he did as mafia last time and is actually doing what DMB did as town one time

4) Find a reason to not leave that wagon anyway and provide no alternatives




Trouble is, this is just a post in a vacuum and I think their other posts when vivax looks townie are a lot better. Was anyone there and can talk about the sentiment at the time and if DMB was actually instigating or just following?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 13 2023 18:16 GMT
#1660
On December 14 2023 03:13 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2023 03:08 Trfel wrote:
On December 14 2023 03:05 Holyflare wrote:
##vote trfel

Figure out some scum reads
I have one, take it or leave it.


I already have that read and I'd like some more. What do you think of DMB? You make no mention of them in the entirety of your list.
I don't have any thoughts on them yet. I kinda just ignored everything they said in preparation for reading their filter later. It's almost later.
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