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Winter Warfare Mafia - Page 82

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sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
December 13 2023 16:46 GMT
#1621
On December 14 2023 01:31 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2023 01:16 sandroba wrote:
Can you comment on the posts I quoted from Trfel?

I dont understand the case in it.

The case is that collection of posts look forced and fabricated, they look like mafia trying to do what was expected of them to do as town.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
December 13 2023 16:52 GMT
#1622
On December 14 2023 01:43 sandroba wrote:
Going through and reading dmb filter, lost of complaining, apologizing for being inactive in the beginning. Don't have any prior experience with them as a player, but would tend to see this as biased towards mafia behavior. Never really comments on the interaction that happened between me and trfel that dominated the initial part of the game. The one mention of Trfel kinda assumes he is mafia and tries to softly throw some shade on Koshi for defending him:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2023 10:10 die_meatbaby wrote:
On December 11 2023 10:04 DarthPunk wrote:
On December 11 2023 10:02 die_meatbaby wrote:
*(I don´t want do hurt fellings with what I ever think or right about somebody here)


We are all grown ups, and I was toxic as fuck back in the day. I think I can comfortably say for all of us, that we would rather have you post freely than worry about upsetting anyone.

especially when you only have 3 posts or something


sorry getting active now. The thing is i don´t like how Koshi is just like 100% sure that Trfel is Town and just almost every post from him is like trying to save him. But also if Koshi is mafia he wouldn´t be that activ.


Show nested quote +
On December 11 2023 11:26 die_meatbaby wrote:
On December 11 2023 10:35 Palmar wrote:
On December 11 2023 10:33 DarthPunk wrote:
On December 11 2023 10:30 Palmar wrote:
Jesus it’s so bad. Pointless commentary, terrible questions. Lots of nothing and very boring to boot. I didn’t laugh once.

We found our first mafia boys. Get in while it’s still cool


You are not wrong, but I think it's not outside of the scope of his town play.


I’m never wrong. Let’s do the vote thing.


Just to make this clear my decision to vote for Vivax is based on my own analysis and not because your ego convinced me to vote who ever you think is scum. And yes your filter looks good but you still not town for me and I will read and analysis every post you will make until you lose a bit of this self believing god player stuff here.


This post sounds a bit fake to me, especially the part where it says "yes your filter looks good but..."

Don't like this post here either:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2023 10:57 die_meatbaby wrote:
On December 12 2023 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:
Chez tell me why I should not try and lynch you right now.


okey i love a chez lynch before he starts to meme up the thread and confuse me or creep me out with his strange post, but why is he scumy for you he was not posting much here. How can we read him? I can not soul read him as i do often in here espescially with players I already played. Feeling like gambling to vote on him and even if he flips red I can not see who would be with him. I am still sure he is not human. He is AI player which Grack is puting in the game for his on satisfaction to see us or def. me struggling to not. But I am open for an Chez lynch just not looking so scumy as V


Interesting in your middle quote there you draw the direct opposite conclusion that Palmar did.

Why is that?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
December 13 2023 16:55 GMT
#1623
Palmar's point as I understood about dmb is taking at face value he is pissed off about Palmar being overconfident and that somehow makes him townie?
My point is that throwing "your filter looks good" in there doesn't sound natural to me given the rest of the sentiment of the post.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
December 13 2023 16:56 GMT
#1624
I’m asking because you are both smart and intuitive players.

So it’s interesting that you come to diametric opposite conclusions on the same post.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
December 13 2023 16:56 GMT
#1625
On December 14 2023 01:55 sandroba wrote:
Palmar's point as I understood about dmb is taking at face value he is pissed off about Palmar being overconfident and that somehow makes him townie?
My point is that throwing "your filter looks good" in there doesn't sound natural to me given the rest of the sentiment of the post.

Can you explain why it doesn’t sound natural?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
December 13 2023 16:56 GMT
#1626
I'm not rulling off palmar as mafia, but I don't think it's worth considering for now
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
December 13 2023 16:57 GMT
#1627
Just to be clear sand: for now I am operating under he assumption you are town, so all my questions will be to try to understand your thought process, not that I’m trying to trap you or something.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
December 13 2023 16:58 GMT
#1628
The sentiment of the post to me reads someone frustrated with a player that is being cocky arrogant, and throwing that olive branch in there doesn't sound natural. Leads me to believe it's more like a fake demonstration between mafia/mafia or mafia/town
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
December 13 2023 17:00 GMT
#1629
Okay 👍
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
December 13 2023 17:01 GMT
#1630
Trying to put myself in what we should assume is dmb position being sincere at being pissed off at palmar and including that in my post doesn't sound right. Even if dmb had those thoughts I don't think they would include it in the phrasing like that.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
December 13 2023 17:03 GMT
#1631
Can I just say, it tracks from DMB’s previous games and comments over the year that they wanted to roll mafia, as they rolled town several times in a row and haven’t played scum before.

So the surface level analysis of low activity/investment pointing to mafia doesn’t really hold up on this specific case, I don’t think.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
December 13 2023 17:09 GMT
#1632
What about the part where DMB avoids the Trfel/Sandroba topic completely, and throws in a soft accusation of Koshi defending Trfel?
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
December 13 2023 17:22 GMT
#1633
When Raynpelikoneet next speaks I will pay better attention than I have to Sandroba. I ought not be so biased
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30774 Posts
December 13 2023 17:23 GMT
#1634
On December 14 2023 02:22 Alakaslam wrote:
When Raynpelikoneet next speaks I will pay better attention than I have to Sandroba. I ought not be so biased


What are your current goals for the game and who do you think is mafia? Feel like you've kind of petered out since end of day 1 and are just meandering and commenting a bit and I think you've started angling towards me again without actually saying much about it.
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
December 13 2023 17:38 GMT
#1635
On December 14 2023 02:23 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2023 02:22 Alakaslam wrote:
When Raynpelikoneet next speaks I will pay better attention than I have to Sandroba. I ought not be so biased


What are your current goals for the game and who do you think is mafia? Feel like you've kind of petered out since end of day 1 and are just meandering and commenting a bit and I think you've started angling towards me again without actually saying much about it.

This is correct, and the result of reading Rayn's filter.
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 13 2023 17:40 GMT
#1636
On December 12 2023 11:44 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2023 16:57 Trfel wrote:
On December 11 2023 13:41 DarthPunk wrote:
Trfel are you around?

Can you give me your updated reads now you are voting vivax
I'm asleep.

I think Vivax is the best chance at mafia. His play is very underwhelming and uninspired, in contrast to his town play where he is capable of being a very strong player. He also seems to not care about his relatively poor performance/lack of investmemt.

Sandroba and Koshi might be worth considering but I think I like lynching Vivax more by a decent margin.


This is a very scummy post.

Why Koshi?
Policy, due to playing anti-town. Since I posted this he's been significant more helpful (if somewhat still anti-town) and I would no longer consider this, at least not for this reason.
On December 12 2023 18:45 DarthPunk wrote:
I wonder if trfel would open with a bus on his own teammate.

That whole thing was really weird and forced.

And then it kind of disappeared. Like for how aggro trfel was at the start on sandro, he dropped that whole thing and then he dropped the stuff with me too.

It’s almost like all the proactivity at the start ended up with nothing.

And at the end he just flipped onto vivax.
It's also like sandroba wasn't doing much so there was no new information to share or discuss?
On December 12 2023 23:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So i see both Trfel and sandroba have entered the thread after i left, both of them are calling Vivax mafia because Vivax is not reading the thread in correct order, but neither of them recognizes the fact that Holyflare did the exact same thing (or rather voted for someone, said he didn't didn't read up to point of a certain post before voting, but still had read posts after that point).

Especially for someone who thinks Vivax is mafia because Vivax quoted posts in wrong order, HF should be like double mafia.
I didn't think that was a reason for Vivax being mafia. It was just something weird that I noticed and didn't know what to make of it. (I also don't think it makes Holyflare or anyone else mafia, Holyflare's case is different since he openly said he wasn't reading closely anyway though)
On December 13 2023 12:10 Chezinu wrote:
Mr. truffles, why!?!?!?
Sorry, I'm not sure what you are asking about here?
On December 13 2023 20:19 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2023 06:45 Trfel wrote:
On December 11 2023 06:40 DarthPunk wrote:
On December 11 2023 06:35 Trfel wrote:
I think at this point I'd be okay with lynching Koshi (if he is going to play like this), and potentially okay with lynching DarthPunk. Sandroba's recent set of posts were more interesting to me, I didn't necessarily agree with everything he was saying but it helps me to put together his mindset/approach. Holyflare's point that he's focusing on defending himself from presumed incorrect accusations instead of actually finding mafia or being productive is strong, now that he's actually shared suspicions I look forward to him coming back tomorrow. Vivax I could definitely see being mafia but I don't think I want to lynch him as much as Koshi or DarthPunk at this point.


Wait wtF?!? I am your second biggest lynch candidate because:

1.) I stopped posting for 6 hours in the middle of the night

and

2.) for saying pretty much exactly what you are saying about sandroba's recent posts???


That doesn't make any fucking sense. Are you for real right now?

##vote: Trfel
I don't want to lynch you for what you said about sandroba's posts. Why are you quoting things that aren't my reasoning and calling it my reasoning? And it's not that you stopped posting during the night, it's the way you left with seemingly no direction and how content you felt to do so. Yes, it can be explained (to some extent) by being asleep, but the timing seems rather suspect as well due to making a push, backing off when it seems clear to not be working, and then leaving since you've "done something" already.

Honestly Trfel, this is the 3rd time I counted that you have brought up DP being afk while asleep.

I don’t understand why you’re expecting him to completely flesh out a new view on the game after he has unvoted you, less than 24h into the game?

Can you explain?
Maybe my reasoning was flawed. I realize that people have to sleep, it just felt like a convenient time to do so. To me there's a standard pattern of:
Push something -> back off
But then what do you do when you back off? Town wants to figure out the game, so they need to find something else. Mafia just did a bunch of work, so they look busy, so they don't need to do anything.

I quite likely overestimated this heavily, considering it being night in Australia and fairly early day 1.
On December 13 2023 20:24 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2023 05:39 Trfel wrote:
Hey Vivax, I'm around. I get that you're voting for sandroba but I don't see you being that committed to the push. To be fair I've been busy today so I skimmed the past few pages.

Can you summarize why I/we should be lynching sandroba (or whoever you want, really)? If you want to quote previous posts that explain it that's fine, I just can't really look on my own for a little.

Really disappointing that Trfel posted this then afked.
I mean Vivax didn't respond, or do anything until much later when I was no longer around. I don't know what more I was supposed to do, I wanted to play but Vivax didn't give me anything to work with and I didn't see much of a reason to view him as town at the time.
Caught up now. Need to do a TON of rereading but my inclinations are that Chezinu is mafia, sandroba is maybe town, and I really need to look at die_meatbaby now that she (?) has actually posted some things.
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
December 13 2023 17:41 GMT
#1637
My goal for the game is to try to find out who is scum? And lynch then. But I have some difficulty with the first.
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
December 13 2023 17:43 GMT
#1638
Beginning to wonder why we don't just lynch the jester
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 13 2023 17:48 GMT
#1639
I'm just going to vote for Chezinu, I think he is just mafia. We had a game in the past where we were town together and talked quite a bit, and a game in the past where we were scum together, in fact I think maybe two games, and his effort and engagement with the game feel very scummy. He's capable of much more as town, we all know this. You shouldn't have to beg him to interact with the game. He's even made plenty of posts, the time is there, the desire to do anything about solving the game is not.

##vote Chezinu

The house of brown has found it time to end your mafia-ness.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30774 Posts
December 13 2023 17:51 GMT
#1640
Trfel

+ Show Spoiler [posts] +


#72
- This is the beginning of when trfel didn't like sandro. I think the highlighted part of sandro's post is extremely waffley and bad so like that he's picking it out to pre-empt what he's about to say and get a response to it. ++

#74 - Sandro responds and to me, it looks like he should be town reading slam in #73 but somehow in his original conclusion he downplays the town read. Trfel picks up on this in this post and his next post (#75), indicating that Sandro makes absolutely no read on slam whatsoever even though he writes a lot of lines about him so it's just kind of pointless. ++

There's a bunch of questions thrown out in the next few posts and at least he follows up a bit with sandro. Not sure I like that in #118 he just kinda fobs sandro's response off but I like that he expands what he's thinking to DP. Sandro's post is riddled with open-ended unsureness that didn't seem to have a purpose. I like even more that he tries to question Slam over Slam thinking that all the reactions were overblow and it could just be mafia/mafia theatre. I'm not sure I like that Slam post even (will investigate) but Trfel does a good job of trying to dig into someone that looks like they have a thought process incongruent with theirs. ++

#120 Oh, he basically says exactly what I said above and takes back the town read. Pretty good imo. ++
Same kinda vibe with questioning DP in #124

Next few posts are just a bit of back and forth with marv interjecting and talking to DP about the sureity of his sandro read and it not being very sure. I think #136 the ending feels a bit robotic "I'm very interested to see how he follows it up" is just so generic. I also think #143 is also extremely generic in a way that the post is too formulaicly worded. Like he's just going through the motions of scum reading sandro and waiting for the next step of his programming to happen without interjecting real thoughts. --

Actually kind of like the highlighted bits being pointed out in #146, they don't really make any sense to me (DP saying that mafia likes to take strong commitments early ???). I actually hate DP in these interactions lol, good thing I didn't pay enough attention to them. ++ trfel

The next few posts in #156, #157, #159 are all good responses to DP making wtf accusations and then a weird unvote. I like that Trfel wanted it followed up.

Gonna stop linking to posts now, cba. #167 is a good question to vivax. Not sure exactly what vivax was going to achieve with his sandro question and it shows trfel is still interested in interactions in and around sandro.

#169 is basically a scum read on DP without actually saying as much. I'm not sure why he stops short of outright calling DP mafia. Don't really like it. I guess you could say he doesn't really make a conclusion on sandro too although you could argue that's just a feeler content creation case with more poignant accusations. Don't like this post regardless ---

#257 Quite like the initial points on Vivax that trfel talks about but the second half of it seems like something extra tacked on for no reason. If he doesn't know what to make of the order or if it's alignment indicative why does it matter? Feels like adding words for the sake of it and a bit hypocritical in the same respect as his accusation to sandro earlier. --

#262 Think sandro mentioned this in one of his recent posts but I also don't like that he callously threw out the vivax suspicion beforehand, found out it wasn't actually true and then still used it to almost double down on ANOTHER meaningless reason to not like what vivax said. Vivax could have quite easily caught up by skimming and then gone back to poke at questions so seems pretty mediocre. ---

As a caveat to the above, in this post above he mentions that he doesn't like that DP has fallen off after the questioning of him (doesn't bring back up the other DP points he disliked before, at least not yet. Just kinda outs it which is fine imo. Don't hate it.) +

He makes some throwaway question to me asking why I think rayn is mafia, has some follow up with rayn about vivax's posts again in #272 as if that line of thought even means something anymore. Meh. At least he acknowledges that in the same post and is just more concerned with Vivax's lack of involvement.

#287 Points out that I agree with what Vivax is saying (has a overarching view of most of Vivax's posts/stances). Will await to see the conclusion to what I say before questioning whether this is a good post or not because I'd be extra curious about what I said, given my answer was something crap like "I forgot".

#328 tries to get vivax (a scum read) to comment on DP (presumably a scum read but kind of unsaid). Good follow up I guess, shows thinking about the game at least, even if an easy post. +

#335 A correct take but not sure I understand why he's more concerned about my "overall picture of play" when I've made like 2 posts. Here is where he mentions that DP is probably asleep and wants my thoughts too. Mmmm. Questionable post imo. --

#388 No reads list but Vivax/DP/Koshi (first mention)/Sandro are in his suspect list. Not sure where Koshi came from or how.

fuck me I'm bored of investing myself into playing this game it's tedious af, just gonna summarise the rest




lot more back and forth with DP about really silly nitpicking points imo. I don't think trfel's points are that bad that DP fell off after the push on him and did not much (will double check between when DP stopped pushing and went to bed to clarify). I also don't think his point about the marv push was that bad either.

Koshi read is phoning it in but fine. Shared sentiment.

#428 is a bad post (the one talking about DP sleeping with no other push in the thread). ------

his posts about DP calling sandro basically town are correct and DP's arguments are pretty bad faith

voting for vivax is consistent and I don't think #666 is that bad given his posts previously, it's pretty much just a summary of what he's been saying, not a hipster new read thing

I also kinda liked that he stopped interacting with the DP scum read, the frustration seemed real and I dunno if he'd be that frustrated as mafia? Although would he perhaps be more accusatory if he was town and thought DP was mafia and then go after him more? Maybe he's getting frustrated because he's being misrepresented and can't really fight back properly as mafia? One to think about more.

#805 is a whatever defence of marv. Perhaps unwarranted and feels a bit like his defence of me for little reason.

#815 possibly like this post

#823 does mafia trfel really make this post to a town vivax if he knows this to be true? I'm not so sure he actually does.


tl;dr

1) I think Trfel's opening posts on sandro are decent but the suspicion drops off the face of the earth. I don't like that.

2) His argument with DP is extra pointless from DP's side. I don't think the arguments that Trfel presents calling out DP are that bad other than the sleeping thing obviously which is a bit shit but not specifically what he meant. I need to check the timeline here for when DP stopped pushing Trfel and then went to bed because if it's straight away then Trfel's points are bad. If DP stays in the thread a bit aimlessly doing nothing then Trfel's points hold a lot more merit.

3) I think his Vivax suspicion is fine but he throws in a lot of extrenuous details into it that are basically meaningless and he eventually admits that. He defaults to the same kind of argument that he thinks DP is being mafia for (no thread presence or drive) which is an ok read. I actually liked his initial questioning of Vivax over his questions to Sandroba. It shows that he was interested in people interacting with his original scum read.

4) He kind of throws out some free town reads (or at least pressure appeasing reads) on me and marv out of the blue which I feel like I've seen him do before in a previous game, or at least it tickles my brain saying I have somewhere but I can't really get a feel for why he does it. Just seems out of the blue.

5) His argument with DP I think he was mostly correct on and DP was arguing in bad faith. He gets very frustrated with being misrepresented but it doesn't seem like he cares to go the extra step to call DP mafia here or campaign for him. Instead, he leaves and comes back and decides to ignore DP to stop the back and forth (which is fine) but I think he'd be more vocal about suspicions here on his return.

6) I really think that #823 is a post a mafia trfel probably doesn't make to a vivax that he knows is town?

7) I get the overall impression that Trfel is kinda sticking to scum reads and hasn't had much evolution of them? They seem a bit static, even if it appears he's questioning them.




I dunno lol, could genuinely see him being town or mafia. I'd be more inclined to call him town, although I'm fully ready to be burnt by that position. Feel like I've wasted my precious time playing this game now.

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