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On December 01 2020 09:05 Tictock wrote:
Are Mafia able to hold their KP?
I did not see this in the OP. Assuming they have to shoot then if we lynch mafia Trfel has a chance to prevent KP and confirm mafia.
I doubt I will move off Hapa/Vivax here, Vivax is the "safe" lynch since everyone seems to agree he should be mafia.
I won't vote anyone else.
It doesn't matter whether or not mafia can hold KP or not.
Even if they can, the effect of mafia holding KP (assuming we lynch mafia today) is that town gets an extra lynch.
i.e. assuming Vivax gets lynched today:
N3 playerlist:
- Rayn (Town according to TT perspective)
- Trfel (JK according to TT perspective)
- Hapa (Likely mafia according to TT perspective)
- FF (Confirmed town)
- TT
If Trfel JK's me and I hold KP it is still optimal play for town to lynch me, since it would be 1 mafia v. 4 town on D4.
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Of course, you're not going to address this post or vote Vivax because you and Vivax are mafia, but it's fun demonstrating it nonetheless.
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...and all my recent posts should demonstrate how batshit retarded it is for some hapa/Vivax mutual bus play to be a thing, but hey, you're mafia with Vivax, so I get why you would hold on to certain opinions.
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On December 01 2020 09:13 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2020 08:55 Hapahauli wrote:On December 01 2020 08:41 Tictock wrote:On December 01 2020 05:11 Trfel wrote:
I have a few thoughts but nothing more to really add on top of what's already been said. Of course this changes if people suspect me, but given that no one seems to currently, it feels more valuable for me to watch what happens undisturbed.
With that said:
##Vote: Hapahauli
I can certainly understand why Hapahauli, as a claimed blue, wouldn't be killed. But it's so hard for me to understand why he wouldn't be roleblocked. And while I'm uncertain, I doubt the presence of three blues in the setup, especially given the bodyguard mechanic.
With that said: would someone be willing to explain to me what raynpelikoneet is saying about Hapahauli the past few pages that's so condemning? As I said on the last page, it seems to come down to role mechanics that I thought worked differently, but I seem to be horribly misreading. He is kinda on the same boat as me. Hapa claimed mafia would not kill him because they might set off his bomb on mafia!Vivax. Rayn was rightfully hounding down that that makes no sense when they knew he didn't have a bomb down and could RB and kill him without any worry. The only mechanical kink in that theory is that mafia knowing you are JK might be trying to play around protection. However this was still Happa's initial suggestion for why mafia would not kill him. While I find that all telling, I think looking at Happa's overall play it is clear his thinking is fualty if he was in fact Hatter. First he contradicts himself saying he didn't want mayor because getting shit let's hit use the role, but he later attempts to clearly breadcrum his role. I also think him using his blue claim as an excuse to drop off the game for awhile is telling. Then you can add in my point about his clearly having a strong scum read on Vivax at the start of day, they spends a few posts going "I don't know who is mafia, I keep flip flopping on Rayn" after several pages of defending his claim to me and rayn "I'm in the same boat as Trfel, who at one point voted Hapa for mechanic-related reasons"... On December 01 2020 08:48 Tictock wrote:
Let's not get too hung up on mechanics and setup. It is a bit too much WIFOM to be useful in a theoritical sense.
Much better to try and take a look at the player actions, behavior around their claim, and how they attempted to use their role.
However I will note that Bodyguard is similar to named town role AND acts as protection for mayor. I could add on but again I do not think pure mechanics should decide this as it is ultimately speculative until postgame ...but let's not overly focus on mechanics guys! That would be bad for town! I was saying Rayn is in the same boat as me, keep up with my past self!
You quoted Trfel's post, not Rayn's. Keep up with yourself m8.
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You haven't thought anything too deeply through, have you?
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On December 01 2020 08:56 Hapahauli wrote:@ TTShow nested quote +On December 01 2020 08:35 Hapahauli wrote:
Let's make a deal TT.
I think Vivax is mafia. You think Vivax is mafia.
Let's kill Vivax. After that, since we both think that Trfel is the JK, he can simply block me tomorrow and "confirm me as mafia". Sounds good?
Game solved and over from your perspective. No need to argue or do anything. The offer stands. If I were to get Trfel to endorse this plan, will you vote Vivax? Yes or no.
Still waiting.
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I am offering the "mafia team" from your perspective on a silver platter.
Now put up or shut up. You going with this plan or not?
If Trfel JK's me tomorrow and there is no mafia night kill, town should policy lynch me period.
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On December 01 2020 09:21 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2020 08:56 Hapahauli wrote:@ TTOn December 01 2020 08:35 Hapahauli wrote:
Let's make a deal TT.
I think Vivax is mafia. You think Vivax is mafia.
Let's kill Vivax. After that, since we both think that Trfel is the JK, he can simply block me tomorrow and "confirm me as mafia". Sounds good?
Game solved and over from your perspective. No need to argue or do anything. The offer stands. If I were to get Trfel to endorse this plan, will you vote Vivax? Yes or no. Still waiting.
This is the only thing I am interested in you answering.
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For those in the peanut gallery, this whole line of questioning does have a point. Despite how "confident" I may portray my reads, I always look to verify and cross-check them, especially in a MYLO/LYLO situation.
His refusal to engage the "plan" shows that he's not truly indifferent to the Hapa/Vivax lynch like he claims.
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FF or Rayn need to vote Vivax. Given that FF has expressed his sense of a Vivax/TT scumteam, I'm not worried about him coming back and consolidating.
Even if Rayn doesn't come back, TT unvoting Vivax to create a no-lynch (when he supposedly has no preference between a Hapa/Vivax lynch) is a straight scum-claim and should get him instantly policy lynched next day. Also remember that a no-lynch does not lose town the game here, which would make such a switch pretty stupid from a scum-TT perspective.
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Your argument is literally that I am scummy because defending myself and pushing my reads is scummy.
Good night.
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Fuck off. I played your rapid fire questioning bullshit last night. It got me nowhere.
I’m not going to field more insane questions from you when it’s midnight.
If you are town, you’ve played like shit all game. You’ve been convinced that Slam and FF were mafia for stupid reasons, and you still have the arrogance to try and push the same shit on me now.
Maybe I’ll have more patience tomorrow morning. Who knows. I don’t know what it is about your play recently, but the way you play and interact puts me on tilt so fucking badly no matter how much I try to be patient and entertain your shit.
I hope you’re mafia. I really do. But I don’t think you are and it pisses me off.
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Trfel, you need to stop being convinced by the last person you speak to.
Rayn, thank you finally for posting one coherent post of your suspicions on me. I've been waiting for that all day.
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On December 01 2020 15:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Now Trfel and FF. You both know Hapahauli is extremely capable as town. Do you believe that town hapa:
Doesnt want to be mayor just because he doent want responsibility and hecause he cannot then use his role, while trying to convince me into lynching grack for "i have historically very good accuracy of hitting mafia D1"? Why doesnt he think he will get shot N1 anyways? [/b]
I want to use my role. Period. It's town KP.
Reads jock mafia for his posting well enouugh to put him as very clear scumread D2 just to later on end up saying jock is mafia because he doesnt remember anything jock has posted?
Bullshit and misleading.
I state that I didn't remember what Jock said on #532.
https://tl.net/forum/mafia/565699-a-mostly-normal-game-of-mafia?page=27#532
This inspires me to case him, which I post [i]after in #591:
https://tl.net/forum/mafia/565699-a-mostly-normal-game-of-mafia?page=30#591
Briefly as it was, reads TT town simply just for reading rayn's filter. In MYLO???
Where the fuck did I do this?
As claimed blue doesnt get shot or roleblocked N2 over shockeyy?
It happened.
Uses ate in "i understand you can want to lynch me for three blues being too much". Now thats simply bullshit and noone should vote hapa for that, why doesnt he say so? Because of ate, it's better if peoplerealise itthemselves. Still, why is he allowing people to scumread him for utterly shit reasons if he is town?
It happened.
The only "reason" that you and anyone else has to lynch me is for setup speculation and "because I wasn't shot."
There are many reasons I'd be alive. For example: Lest I remind the thread that I was gone celebrating the holidays with my family for 3-4 days and wasn't engaged in an entire day of play.
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On December 01 2020 15:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I might also add that if my case on FF was so terrible why doesnt hapa say that before ff is confirmed town?
It's almost like I was gone from the thread for the whole weekend and didn't have the chance to call you out on your idiocy live.
Idunno. Do you read anything with context?
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Uses ate in "i understand you can want to lynch me for three blues being too much". Now thats simply bullshit and noone should vote hapa for that, why doesnt he say so? Because of ate, it's better if peoplerealise itthemselves. Still, why is he allowing people to scumread him for utterly shit reasons if he is town?
God even reading this shit makes me pissed off.
Hapa can't control the reasons for which people scum read him, therefore he is scum.
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What people should understand if they read my filter in context is that it is really unlikely for me to have any scum-buddy this game. Therefore, how the fuck am I mafia?
Certainly not for easily disprovable shit that Rayn posts:
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On December 01 2020 14:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2020 14:23 Trfel wrote:On December 01 2020 13:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 01 2020 13:19 Hapahauli wrote:
Sigh. Let me start by saying this: Hapa is saying we should definitely lynch into TT/Vivax because if we hit mafia there the game is practically solved. This is obviously smart from mafia perspective because he then isnt lynched and town can still make the wrong decision with TT/Vivax. From town perspective though; Lets say we lynch Vivax and he flips mafia. Trfel jails Hapa (or whoever) and the NK goes through. How is the game solved? Did Hapahauli ever say this? I thought he was advocating lynching Tictock or Vivax because he thinks they are mafia and he is town (presumably) so that would be a superior lynch? He doesnt outright say it but implies it over and over again by trfel's jail and in his discussion with TT. Like he says we lynch vivax and trfel jails him and if he is mafia it's gg. But it doesnt even come to it if vivax is NOT mafia. Again, flawed reasoning to make tou look elsewhere other than him.
"Hapa didn't say it, but I'm just going to read into what he said until I think he is scummy".
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And for the record townies, if Rayn says something about my fitler, FFS don't take it for granted as if it is true and actually... CHECK HIS WORK?!?
Sometimes, he has his head so much up his as that he reads more lines in his colon than he does in thread.
It's probably town but it's so fucking bad.
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EPT
