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[QUOTE]On April 05 2020 21:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What is that logic you're talking about [quote]
The post I bolded earlier in the thread and you mentioned it. I stick by that. It just looks like the kind of logic town would use in deciding early reads. Its not enough to counter the bad feeling i get about him though.
[quote]and why wouldn't a guy who is mafia stay calm in Trfele's case? I mean like do you have something to support your assumption that Trfel would freak out for what you said to him if he is mafia or?[/QUOTE]
I didn't assume trfel would freak out. Some mafia freeze up or change tone slightly in response to pressure and he didn't.
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FIXED VERSION:
On April 05 2020 21:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What is that logic you're talking about
The post I bolded earlier in the thread and you mentioned it. I stick by that. It just looks like the kind of logic town would use in deciding early reads. Its not enough to counter the bad feeling i get about him though.
and why wouldn't a guy who is mafia stay calm in Trfele's case? I mean like do you have something to support your assumption that Trfel would freak out for what you said to him if he is mafia or?
I didn't assume trfel would freak out. Some mafia freeze up or change tone slightly in response to pressure and he didn't.
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On April 05 2020 21:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
the thing is the logic is completely wrong.
OK. I agreed with it at the time and it seemed like a genuine bit of logic town would use to try and work things out. I don't want to ignore it just because you disagree with the premise.
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On April 05 2020 21:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I mentioned it btw because while it is incredibly wrong i think you wouldn't not take advantage of that if you were mafia (and if he was town). It is still incredibly wrong and i am not sure how your answer (and read on him) clears up the confusion about that because you should be re-evaluating shit when people tell you something is fundamentally wrong.
I am re-evaluating though. I re-evaluated and came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be smart for mafia to make a post like that.
He has to stick to that logic later in the game, so we can file it under 'useful' for later, unless you want to lynch him now, and we can agree to disagree about whether the accuracy of the statement means we can't give him townpoints for posting it.
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On April 05 2020 22:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Maybe i am just bad but i don't really understand you right now because you seem to be saying Trfel is not mafia but your vote is still on him?
I'm not saying that.
That one or two sentences he posted made me think town, but because of his tone and the way interacting with him felt to me he's a scumlean. Its not that hard to understand tbh and I said the same thing a few posts up.
My vote was only still on trfel because i hadn't moved it yet.
##unvote
##vote: shockeyy
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You can do better than that rayn lol.
Ask yourself this, what purpose does me voting for rels or hap serve town right now?
I really don't want to have explain every little thing.
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On April 05 2020 22:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2020 22:37 Jockmcplop wrote:
You can do better than that rayn lol.
Ask yourself this, what purpose does me voting for rels or hap serve town right now?
I really don't want to have explain every little thing. I asked and i got a conclusion of "why would you vote for outside of your top 2 scumreads in a game where there is 2 scum?". Doesnt really matter who plays or who is playing or not.
That's an absolutely terrible conclusion to come to.
It would make sense ONLY if you believe that the only reason to vote for someone is to kill them.
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On April 06 2020 04:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Yo Jock, wtf was were those last like 2-3 posts by you.
What happened in your brain that could possibly lead your mind into doing the shit you just did.
Settle down there bloody.
There was zero point in voting for either hap or rels at that particular point in the game. There was already pressure on hap coming from rayn and others so a pressure vote there was redundant, rels will probably get replaced if he doesn't show up and play, and I had already said in my reads list i wanted to see more from shockeyy.
Interesting that hap turned up, read the thread and put his vote on me... It looks very much like just going with thread sentiment mixed with a healthy dose of self preservation.
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On April 06 2020 01:39 Hapahauli wrote:@ JockShow nested quote +On April 05 2020 22:42 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 05 2020 22:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2020 22:37 Jockmcplop wrote:
You can do better than that rayn lol.
Ask yourself this, what purpose does me voting for rels or hap serve town right now?
I really don't want to have explain every little thing. I asked and i got a conclusion of "why would you vote for outside of your top 2 scumreads in a game where there is 2 scum?". Doesnt really matter who plays or who is playing or not. That's an absolutely terrible conclusion to come to. It would make sense ONLY if you believe that the only reason to vote for someone is to kill them. "Pressure votes" are certainly valid. Why does town-Jock not want to pressure his top scumread ("mafia-hapa") with a vote? Why does town-Jock not want to pressure Rels? How did you arrive at Shockey vs. the other candidates? Show nested quote +On April 05 2020 21:15 Jockmcplop wrote:
So far my town reads are vivax and bloody and I also wouldn't lynch rayn, or probably chez.
Vivax I already explained, he just has that spark when he's trying to solve, and you can see it here. This is a meta read though so its always a chance that this is the game where scum Vivax changes his meta. He's probably town though.
Bloody keeps saying things that I'm thinking and although that's fakeable so early in the game, I find it far more likely that he sees the game similarly to me because he's town.
I wouldn't lynch rayn here because he *seems* townie, but historically I can't read rayn for shit so I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt really. I'll filter him in a minute and see if anything jumps out. I like the long post alot.
Chez I wouldn't lynch also because I can't read him. He's very entertaining though so best keep him alive.
Everyone else can die until we find scum, probably in the following order, scummiest first:
haphauli - Not really much to say other than I agree with bloody and rayn but he needs to come and be town or he gets lynched.
Rels Nothing.
Shockeyy Need to see more from shockeyy but he seems a bit too laid back if you know what i mean. Almost like he can't be bothered. Said he wants to have more interactions with other people so I want to see what happens if he does.
Trfel I have explained. He responded okay to pressure but I still think his case on rayn was poor and he pulled out the 'trying to get people talking' line that mafia loves. I'm trying to avoid tunnelling on him though because I've done that before when he was town.
So yeah my two biggest scumreads have barely posted. I guess that shows where I am in this game at the moment.
In addition, the "order of scumminess" itself leads to some extra questions about your vote on Shockey. Given this list, Rels is #2. It is literally impossible to tell anything about Rels' alignment given zero posting. Rels is null in the purest sense of it. This would imply that Shockeyy and Trefel are slightly above-null, but you chose to place a vote on Shockeyy anyway.
Question 1 i already answered above.
I disagree with your assessment of rels being 'pure null'.
Unfortunately that ignores a huge amount of information in the thread. Reads are relative and happen relatively to each other. Someone with zero posts can be null, but they can be a scumread depending on what's happening in the thread.
Given the look of the thread, the low number of posts, and the fact that some solving is happening most of the time when people are in the thread, its logical to think that the mafia is more likely to be hiding in the low/zero poster category. In addition to this, i'm struggling to come up with solid scumreads on the people who are posting (until you turned up and started posting), so the low/zero posters are where I'm looking mostly.
You could just ignore all that information and go simplify it down to 'zero posts = pure null' but doing so would infer to me that you have some reason to ignore the rest of what's happened in the thread...
Shockeyy is not a 'slight townread' at all. I need to see more from shockeyy but I'm fine leaving my vote there if I don't.
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On April 06 2020 19:12 Trfel wrote:
You didn't answer my question :'(
Sorry I missed it.
Hapahauli's entrance was bad. I agreed with bloody's case on him basically. He seemed like he was just asking random questions to be involved without actually caring about the answers.
Now I scumread him more because of the way he came back and instantly jumped on the back of what rayn was saying about me, which looks like a self-preservation move, using thread sentiment to feign aggression against the obvious target.
I still want to see more from shockeyy though.
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On April 06 2020 19:35 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2020 19:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 06 2020 19:12 Trfel wrote:
You didn't answer my question :'( Sorry I missed it. Hapahauli's entrance was bad. I agreed with bloody's case on him basically. He seemed like he was just asking random questions to be involved without actually caring about the answers. Now I scumread him more because of the way he came back and instantly jumped on the back of what rayn was saying about me, which looks like a self-preservation move, using thread sentiment to feign aggression against the obvious target. I still want to see more from shockeyy though. Thanks for answering, I appreciate it. I dunno if you looked in my "Notes" spoiler, but what I'm getting at is: you were present in the thread when BloodyC0bbler posted about Hapahauli. You were there for his early posts and didn't seem to find them interesting yourself. But it was only after raynpelikoneet posted about Hapahauli that you said you scumread him. If you agreed with BloodyC0bbler's case, why didn't you say so at the time? To me it feels like you saw the wagon gaining support and only then jumped on. Unless there is something I am missing?
There's nothing really to say about bloody's case on hap other than 'I agree'. There's no conversation to be had about that, and I was busy in the thread speaking to you about other stuff at that time.
I agree with plenty of stuff people say in the thread but I don't always make a point of posting about it. If hap had done more at that time I would have had reason to to go analyze his posts or respond to bloody with my own opinions about it but he hadn't and so I don't see the point in posting +1s or 'i agree' or something like that.
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On April 06 2020 19:35 Trfel wrote:
To me it feels like you saw the wagon gaining support and only then jumped on. Unless there is something I am missing?
I can see how it would look like that. I would say that also applies to hap's return to the thread and his subsequent vote for me.
The difference being that hap was under pressure at the time and I wasn't, and also that when I made my reads list the only decent case in the thread was against hap.
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On April 06 2020 20:01 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2020 19:46 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 06 2020 19:35 Trfel wrote:
To me it feels like you saw the wagon gaining support and only then jumped on. Unless there is something I am missing? I can see how it would look like that. I would say that also applies to hap's return to the thread and his subsequent vote for me. The difference being that hap was under pressure at the time and I wasn't, and also that when I made my reads list the only decent case in the thread was against hap. Sorry to keep pestering you, but I don't understand the second paragraph. Honest curiosity about what you are saying. What does being under pressure matter for this? Like why is that difference alignment indicative? And what does the last sentence mean, that you have to agree with it because it's a decent case, or that Hapahauli had no decent case on you to agree with? I think I'm just missing your intention with those sentences, sorry.
If you're under pressure you need to post reads and figure out a way to survive. Hapahauli has worked out his best way to survive.
My read on hap was based on the information available in the thread, that's why i scumread him, because the best case in the thread was about hapahauli. Hapahauli's reason for scumreading me was survival.
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On April 05 2020 23:17 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2020 23:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2020 23:07 Hapahauli wrote:
Typically, a town mindset is "I think you are scum, therefore I will convince others to vote for you."
Let's say this is the case considering every player. How did you show this mindset in your first three posts of the game? My posts have fundamentally different motivations than Jockey. For one, I don't consider Shockey or Trefel scum-reads. I consider them lynchbait. There's something about their posting that triggers my "gut", and I'd rather try to engage with them early-game and/or think aloud in the thread a bit. Had the thread not kicked up while I was fast asleep, I probably would have continued trying to get them to talk a bit more and open up. Jockey is instead directly scumreading Trefel.
This post triggers me massively.
I have spent the entire game trying to get both trfel and shockeyy talking. That, and talking to rayn, is basically all I have done.
I have been directly interacting with trfel for basically the entire game and my vote on shockeyy is an attempt to get him talking.
Scumreading people and picking out the faults in their posts is a fantastic way to get them talking and it generally works (it worked well with trfel).
This looks like hapa just grasping at straws trying to find 'original' ways to verbalise his convenient scum read of me.
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I'm getting less scummy feelings about trfel as the game goes on. He just feels more townie than he did at the beginning of the game.
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I do kinda like hapa's case on BC though even though I still townread BC.
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On April 06 2020 20:41 Trfel wrote:And I actually kinda like that Jockmcplop post. Though, didn't you say mafia love to say they're trying to get people talking?  I don't know anything 
Yes I did say that haha.
It was a different context though, I wasn't defending my posts by saying that, and the fact that I was trying to get people talking should be really obvious by the way i interacted with you and then downgraded my scumread of you slightly because of the way you responded, and by my pressure vote on shockeyy.
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On April 06 2020 20:53 Vivax wrote:
Jock what are the things Cobbler thinks similarly to you?
His early scumreads of trfel and hapa were the main features of his early play and i felt the same for the similar reasons. If he wasn't agreeing with what i saying he was saying what i was thinking.
I did disagree about his read on you and pulled him up on it but his explanation made sense.
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Why do you think hap didn't give a proper read of shockeyy, even though he's an important part of the game given that hap is voting for the person who is voting for him?
He says he sees shockeyy as lynchbait which infers that he townreads him but doesn't go into any more detail than that.
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On April 06 2020 21:00 Jockmcplop wrote:
Why do you think hap didn't give a proper read of shockeyy, even though he's an important part of the game given that hap is voting for the person who is voting for him?
He says he sees shockeyy as lynchbait which infers that he townreads him but doesn't go into any more detail than that.
The question he asked to shockeyy at the start of the game also looks random af to be honest, especially with no follow up. It looks like he wants to get shockeyy talking, but he hates that i have a pressure vote on shockeyy later.
Hap, when you asked shockeyy what his mafia experience is is that because you wanted him to make some posts in the thread to help you read him? Do you have a read on him now? If so, what it is, if not, why are you lynching me for voting for shockeyy?
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On April 06 2020 21:11 Trfel wrote:
Actually it might be better to vote Rels over ShoCkeyy.
If Rels is town, his modkill costs us a lynch. If we mislynch and Rels is modkilled, it's 4v2 MYLO which is far from ideal.
If you are struggling for scumreads elsewhere then yeah that's a good idea.
For me though i'm getting this tinfoily feeling about hap/shockeyy and it would probably bug me voting elsewhere.
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EPT
