EPTCupid's Arrow Mafia
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
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Yep! | ||
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aka... jugs? Jock what do we call ourselves anyway -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 16 2019 04:10 NoSmurfHere wrote: aka... jugs? Jock what do we call ourselves anyway -wherebugsgo Jugs is cool Also BugsGoPlop is fun. | ||
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Must be doing something right. Either that or (more likely) Rayn's method of scumhunting this game includes a blindfold and some darts. | ||
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Too early to tell which. You won't get any real reads out of me for the first 24 hours just reactions at this point. J is for Jock. | ||
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On July 24 2019 02:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: But that's not true (the random thing). Also "method of scumhunting this game includes a blindfold and some darts" includes the association of me actually scumhunting so why am i scumhunting as mafia? Wow we haven't even posted anything yet and rayn wants to kill us. Must be doing something right. Implying that you are scum and we must be doing something right for scum to want to kill us. Either that or (more likely) Rayn's method of scumhunting this game includes a blindfold and some darts. Personally to me your random insane beginning to the game is more typical of town rayn but meh, i have no read at the moment. | ||
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I might fogert to sign a few more. Its Jock until further notice. | ||
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On July 24 2019 02:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: can you elaborate more onto this, especially the insane part? Well what you've done so far: Failed to understand hf's post and scumread him for it Went back on this when you realized. Failed to understand eywa's sarcastic post. Scumread koshi off a single post Said you want to lynch one of the roughly 8 people who hadn't posted and ignored the rest. Failed to understand my post above. Seems like typical rayn to me lol. Completely mad. | ||
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On July 24 2019 02:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: Can you clearly explain to me why i SHOULD have immediately understood HF's post? Can you clearly explain to me why i SHOULD have immediately understood Eywa's post? What does my read on Koshi have to do with anything? You never state if you agree or disagree with my reasoning. Yeah i have my reasons to think you are mafia. Bugs is from Canada i think and you are "afraid to post" when you are mafia. I scumread you because you are euro and bugs can be afk (reasonably assumed because he is not afraid to post even as mafia), if you don't get hold of your NA hydra partner it's an aasumption that's why you don't post during EU hours while you usually post a lot. I don't think i failed to understand your post above. HFs post was easy to understand. The immediate reaction to it would be the correct one. I was confused when you reacted like you did. Eywa, fair enough, that was subtle sarcasm. I have played one game as mafia here, and one on another site. I have never been afraid to post (I didn't post much near the end of my mafia game here but at the beginning i was very active). Think about the mechanics of playing hydra and then try to imagine why one of the players wouldn't want to go posting a load of their instinctive reads right at the beginning of the game before talking to the other guy. I'm not compromising on that either. Don't get me wrong rayn, i think you're being decisive, I just but you can be decisive without being right about anything. And yeah, I had to explain my post above in detail and somehow you still don't seem to get it. | ||
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On July 24 2019 02:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: this is a definite and through explanation on why i am NOT misunderstanding any of hydra's posts. The implication they make doesn't even make any fucking sense at all. rayn is scum and we are doing something right with not posting at all, aka "he is afraid of us so he is calling us mafia" does anyone believe this is an explanation that comes to any townie's mind when about eight people have not posted? Nah, I said "must be doing something right" because I was trying to imply that it would be good for mafia to want to kill us, because we are town. | ||
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On July 24 2019 02:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: Jock can you explain it to me why i should read this post "i read Pandain's name as Palmar's" instead of "i looked at Pa- and then decided it's Palmar because i saw a name written in green in the OP"? Because you can choose how you read things. You can try to read things as they were intended, or you can try to read things the way you want them to be if you already decided you were going to pressure someone. J | ||
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Have the last word if you want rayn. Its too early in the game for this level of aggro. ![[image loading]](https://www.unh.edu/healthyunh/sites/default/files/styles/article/public/blog-post/sunset-meditation-mudra.jpg?itok=J15kNKo4) J | ||
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Don't like koshi's first post. No redeeming features of that one. Don't like the way hf misunderstands the day post and then uses his own misunderstanding as evidence that he is town. Although rayn is right that it would be convoluted for mafia hf to do that, I wouldn't put convoluted out of hf's range. Vivax - nothingburger Coagulation - Scumclaims suck dude. FF - dunno Eywa - Very quick to scumread rayn but I wouldn't say that's impossible for town eywa. rayn - waiting to see on this one. Leaving now, won't be back until later tonight. Might have a chance to post something more fleshed out then. Despite what I said about rayn wanting to lynch us, I think in a game this size lynching a lurker would be a good move. J | ||
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When you're in a game of this size and there's loads of people not posting there's probably mafia in there, right? | ||
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Let me explain what I’m planning to do this game. TL;drs in bold. 1. I will post fairly rarely myself and let Jock drive mostly. When I do post, I will try to consolidate as much as possible so expect walls. If you want to ask me questions specifically, just @bugs or @wbg 2. Jock controls the vote unless he specifically asks me to vote(or something weird comes up like I’m around for deadline and he isn’t and he’s told me in advance I can change the vote) 3. I normally reread a lot but in this game I will not due to time constraints and wanting to try out only reading the thread once. 4. I plan on forming my own opinions separate from Jock and I may pick up activity to push a lynch if we both independently agree on a read before sharing detailed thoughts with each other. Otherwise I probably will not be leading lynches as much as I do normally, and if Jock and I disagree on a read even after sharing thoughts I’ll try to make that as clear as possible when we are ready to share. /end explanation On July 24 2019 07:56 Coagulation wrote: No one has any fucking clue in the slightest as to who is mafia unless they ARE mafia by design. Anyone posting anything to the contrary is completely full of shit. Hey coag, sup bb? Jackal still hate my guts? Lolol I stopped reading the thread here and will continue my read after posting this because this is my choice for the best post m/post I agree with the most so far, regardless of coag’s alignment. I often pretend to have reads in this part of the game to generate discussion but anyone who posts like they genuinely believe they’ve got a strong read by this point is mafia or kidding themselves and making the game harder. We should strive for a good lynch day 1 and days to come by creating a collaborative atmosphere, but accept that we’re no more likely than chance to hit scum day 1 and if there is still a ton of in-fighting end of day 1 rather than most people working well together (discounting 1 or 2 outliers) I think we should accept that game theoretically no-lynch is best. With all of that said, and though I suspect Jock disagrees with me right now, I’d be completely fine with killing rayn because he’s the number 1 contributor to an anti-town atmosphere so far. Why do I say that? 1. He spent way more time than necessary fighting with HF over something that should be obvious. My initial thought was “dumb or scum” because the only town reason I could see for rayn making the posts he made, with the convoluted timeline he had cooked up, was to make some sort of bait play on HF reading into flavour text. 2. He lectured Koshi for a half page over a single post, and then abruptly changed subjects to others (slam, FF IIRC?) without actually saying anything in the end. This did nothing to further discussion. This is despite rayn saying that he often guards his reads/opinions early (for what purpose? Presumably to prevent manipulation by mafia, but then what’s the point of that post he made after Koshi?) 3. Seems to be pretending to want a clean town atmosphere while subtly claiming he is town, but in ways that seem unnatural and forced. This is also at odds with the net result of his posts. Rayn certainly has the capability of doing this as town, but given that his posts are not useful for anyone else to find scum and they’re just purely distracting it makes sense to kill him anyway. For instance, he told HF he wants to stop fighting over things that make “neither of us scum” which is a strange way of saying that he wants to work with HF if rayn is actually town. However his actions even afterward point to him picking fights with people (such as my hydra partner) over things that aren’t alignment indicative. (Bonus) 4. Rayn pulled an unforced “if I had to lynch someone now” just a few hours into the game, pulling a few names out, one of them being ours. As jock pointed out we hadn’t even posted at that point. a.) no one asked, and b.) there is no worthy reason for wanting to kill a player who hasn’t posted only a few hours into day 1. This post and the items on Slam & FF seemed to me more like posturing to “have some reads” after the HF push didn’t work out rather than anything of real substance. -wherebugsgo | ||
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Last two things I wanted to point out: 1. Rayn being 100% sure on Jock being scum is not new and unfortunately not alignment indicative. It’s 100% on Jock alone because he said it before I posted. He’s wrong, so the only thing for us to do now is to figure out whether he’s town and being bad as usual or bad scum who believes he can ramrod a lynch in a fairly desperate situation. Quite funny because I’d love to be eating votes early as scum and soaking up tons of attention because I could trash the thread on purpose and still live, but in rayn’s case I think he’s not a great scum player and pressure naturally causes him anxiety. I also think it will be very evident based on my own posts what alignment we are, even if Jock posts stuff that causes people to scumread us (I actually don’t know why people are so bad at reading Jock in general...after my first game with him it seemed really obvious....) 2. My time zone is UTC +9 because I live in Japan. I’ll be in California next week from the 29th to the 5th, however. The current time here is 10:42 a.m. I will post probably a couple times in the morning in my local time and a couple times in the evening, and maybe a bit more on weekends. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 23 2019 22:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think if i had to pick a lynch right now it would be the hydra. Just a reminder, this was before we had posted anything. You won't be able to convince me that rayn's vote could possibly have landed anywhere else from this point on. | ||
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I said you won't get a bunch of reads, only reactions, and that's exactly what this post was, not calling anyone scum, just reacting to specific things. | ||
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Koshi even though your first post was horrible I'm totally down with what you're saying about eywa being the most sensible poster so far so I'm happy to put that to the back of my mind. To me, this eywa looks exactly like town eywa I've seen in other games, so yeah, no doubt. Are you just sheeping eywa or do you have any thoughts of your own/stuff you think I should look at? | ||
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Slam can you stop posting every thought please? I literally am posting this now because I read page 19 or whatever it was and I am surprised there isn’t a mod action for that. In fact if you as much as double post again I will make it my goal to include you as a lynch suspect in every post I make (and hopefully get you killed) if the hosts don’t get to you first because I have no desire to play in a game like the last one ever again. -wherebugsgo | ||
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The best two choices we have for lynch today are rayn and MZ. Personally I’m not accepting any others, as I honestly don’t have much reason to suspect anyone else yet and I don’t really have that many town reads either. I prefer killing rayn over MZ: I find MZ scummy but I waffle on him because last game he did similar things, where he didn’t provide many reads or vote at all until very late, and was wishy washy throughout. Also, he seems to defend me & jock based on believing the reasoning for voting us is bad and partly rayn drunk posting but then tries to get tube to explain why we’re scum. If MZ is actually town and legitimately believes we’re town then I could see him potentially trying to just shore up his read here but it comes off as extremely passive & non-committal. Jock I think felt more confident on MZ being scum than I did but now is backtracking (?) a bit. I’ll let him comment with his own thoughts if he wants to. I’m off to bed and won’t be back for another 9-12 hours or so. -wherebugsgo | ||
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-J | ||
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On July 25 2019 05:21 Coagulation wrote: So this is a scummy post imo. Absolving self from any possible suspicion if a town rayn flips with flimsy excuses. It doesn't absolve self. Bugs is part of this hydra, he explained why we were voting for rayn. We don't both need to explain the same shit. -J | ||
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On July 25 2019 02:49 Alakaslam wrote: From the look of things we lose Rayn. Not good. He is a strong player. Rayn when you return please just make cases in last bit don’t waste too much time on defense. There comes a point where people won’t change their minds, period. Anyway, so people can make associations later: My reason for believing Rayn to be town are mostly on meta. The case against him is basically that he is anti town because he is able to get angry. And not understand sarcasm. Basically. Bad case. My reasons for scumreading the smurf is trying to shut me down, and a few other things but those are wifom. Not enough to vote on. I vote him to save Rayn. I want to hear what others think of this post as it sticks out quite a lot especially in light of rayn’s flip. The good news is that tomorrow morning we have a confirmed townie, so if you are rayn’s partner please do not claim until then. I also want to hear from you, HF. For everyone else my assignment to you is to tell me your read of HF at this very moment. | ||
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-wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 25 2019 08:06 Holyflare wrote: You're mafia for these posts. There was absolutely a rayn cass that multiple people talked about. Oh hey, you’re here  See my last post, it seems we’re onto the same things. What do you think of Pandain not doing anything so far? And he called you townish too, I was a bit surprised personally -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 25 2019 08:05 Eywa- wrote: Legitimately laughed out loud. Then I realized this wasn't a claim. Where do you stand now that rayn flipped town? In particular how do you read slam, MZ, and Pandain? -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 25 2019 08:15 Eywa- wrote: I think Alakaslam and FecalFeast Holier than thou attitude is pretty bad, I could see one or both being scum. Still scum on MZ FecalFeast having a strong read and not pushing it could be a scum team. What about Coagulation? I really personally don’t think MZ is scum here. Here’s where I stand: 1. Coagulation is scum or at the very least an anti-town prick for essentially shitting on everyone and then voting MZ without ever rationalizing it. He didn’t bother to convince anyone why MZ is scum or even why his vote ended up there. In fact I only know his vote ended up on MZ because I read the final vote count. Completely unremarkable play otherwise on day 1. Would kill with fire. 2. Slam looks really bad for preemptively reacting to rayn likely flipping town with reasons that seem ass-pulled. The only difficult thing I have to reconcile is that he is posting a lot, no idea what his mafia play is actually like. OTOH 25 (??) posts in a row has to be intentional and I am completely fine on principle to kill him over that alone. (call me scum for this I dare you, anyone) 3. FF looks okay to me because some of his engagements with other players (like MZ) looked legit, but I have no particularly strong read on him. Bit of a waffle, but gut reaction on flip was to push him scummier. Honestly can’t answer why I thought that. I’m hoping Pandain can come in and actually contribute/make it clear for us what his alignment is because if he rolled scum then we have to deal with that as well. | ||
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On July 25 2019 08:30 Alakaslam wrote: Go for it, town fool Do it I won’t even resist How are you so sure at this point that HF is town? Like even though he agrees with me on you and he was one of the initial folks on rayn I still don’t townread him lol -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 25 2019 05:16 Fecalfeast wrote: Soo does the mason partner claim after day start then Also how's that scum hit rate on d1 going eywa? On July 25 2019 07:17 Fecalfeast wrote: Read the op What the fuck is with you claiming to be some golden mafia god with a 90% winrate because you lynch scum d1? This is really gratuitous imo and has no possible town motivation behind it. No-one is strongly scumreading eywa (town rayn was townreading eywa) so it looks like FF just wants to discredit eywa as much as possible before day 2 starts. Otherwise what what the point in making these posts FF? | ||
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On July 25 2019 08:35 Alakaslam wrote: Actually I’ve done it with you before WBG but I totally get it as that was in 2013 or so. This is no lie. That being said WBG you might actually want to pay attention to the fact that I can’t use a PC for mafia 90% of the time. When I catch up, I react on real time. I can tell you need to be told this because you didn’t read the posts simply because they were consecutive. Might want to try doing that. Or we could lunch you but I think I have to go first. + Show Spoiler + I’m entirely phone-posting too. I need 3 tabs because I have a quote open in another tab, QT with Jock open in another tab, and in the main tab I write my actual post. But anyway, I’m not rereading those posts because I’m not rereading this game. I already read them once and didn’t find them at all alignment indicative. Also I totally believe you that in the past you might have done the exact same thing and I would’ve been fine with it. I think activity nowadays is very different (though this game is at a very nice leisurely pace, it’s quite enjoyable actually) and while in the past I could get away with posting more and I hated low posters, nowadays I hate spam almost as much as I hate lurking. Moderation and consolidation is the cool, not so new but hip thing in my mind. /end metagame rant HF, two names for you: coag and FF. Tell me where you stand on them. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 25 2019 08:51 Tubesock wrote: I townreading FF and Alakaslam. I also townread Coagulation but it's softer. Yeah Bugs I’ll scumread you for shutting down a player for posting 25 times in a row when it’s a very slow game. It wasn’t like anyone else was around, and You should know that Slam isn’t exactly a high post count player, so shutting him down hurts town. I doubt it took you anymore time to read those 25 posts than it would have if it was all in one. I think the shade towards FF and Meap post flip are scummy. Posting 25 times in a row does not encourage other people to post more. It has the opposite effect in general, in fact. Just look at both my reaction and Pandain’s reaction. I don’t want to have to deal with spam in this game. It’s actually one reason I’m really happy rayn is dead because he spent a lot of energy attacking us (6 pages!) and he was wrong. He would have probably tunneled us until one of us died and if that went into day 2 that would have been awful especially if folks turned around and lynched the other side immediately afterward. This is all made even worse by the fact that he was certain we were scum before either of us had even made a single post. Post volume often correlates with alignment but that level of analysis to clear a player is too simplistic. I am one of the most active players on the forum and I guarantee you that I am the best scum player in this player list. Likewise to HF who is very active and very good at scum. Active scum players pollute the thread on purpose, knowing that multiple posts and posts that repeat the same idea will cause thread sentiment to shift often without any resulting blame coming back to the originator simply because the sheer volume discourages other players from killing you. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 25 2019 08:53 Alakaslam wrote: Sometimes emotion is tough to parse from the game. What does this mean? FF knows what he's doing, he posted that for a reason. Also: On July 24 2019 13:26 Fecalfeast wrote: ill vote meap On July 25 2019 00:11 Fecalfeast wrote: If it's between smurf and rayn I'm voting smurf but imo ziphhhh has a good chance of flipping scum ***VOTE IS BETWEEN SMURF AND RAYN*** On July 25 2019 04:39 Fecalfeast wrote: Well I'm not moving but if rayn is scum good job So the question is, what happened? Was it this post: On July 25 2019 00:41 Koshi wrote: If you read rayn page 5 and dont vote him limits are off again for this game. Pure anti town shitty behaviour. Dont vote for that. Keep anti town in the game. Good move. On July 25 2019 00:49 Fecalfeast wrote: I mean if you put it like that my last post sounds pretty stupid eh? There are two ways to interpret this that I can see: 1: FF decides it would be stupid to try and save rayn - in which case he has no right to be having a go at eywa for pushing rayn or 2: FF just said that he was going to vote for us if it came down to us vs rayn and then decided not to for some other reason. He just kinda looks to me like he's keeping his options open between the 3 major wagons while pretending to have made his mind up. | ||
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-J | ||
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On July 25 2019 09:35 Fecalfeast wrote: That quote is from the mafia championship thing. I was town. I'm not trying to be pro-town I'm trying to have fun and find scum my way That's fine and all but if this is true and you were doing things your own way i would expect you to have at least one read that didn't align perfectly with what everyone else in the thread was saying at the time. That isn't the case, though, is it? 3/3 on major wagons, no surprising or interesting town reads... -J | ||
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On July 25 2019 13:42 Alakaslam wrote: There are the two possible motives that both look rather bad. But in hindsight I think it was just you wanted MZ to die and were at work You really think so slam? Like its not an impossible explanation for his behaviour at EoD but it just doesn't look true to me. I would be fine with him changing his read at the last minute but there's something very mafia like about the situation he was in anyway. 3 Big wagons to choose from and he ended up choosing the one where would have zero responsibility in a lynch because there was much less chance of him being successful. -J | ||
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On July 25 2019 17:44 Koshi wrote: I dont remember it at all. Said he was gonna vote for us over rayn, ended up voting for MZ. Said that it was because your logic made him change his mind. Came back to thread when it became clear that it was us or rayn, still didn't change his vote to something that would have a chance of affecting the lynch. Made a post along the lines of 'well done if rayn is mafia, but I'm leaving my vote on MZ' which I really didn't like either. | ||
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Hehe stupid mafia couldn’t even guess who it is hehe neener neener Right now I’m trying to narrow down my suspects list. Top of the list: FF Slam Chezinu Coag I have a couple other players I’m keeping an eye on (lol Pandain) but I want to wait it out to give them the opportunity to do something useful. In 24 hours if no usefulness is demonstrated I’d be fine with killing people on my (atm non-public) watchlist as well. -wherebugsgo | ||
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Also I like MZ and have a soft spot for him because we’ve both played here a long time, I think he’s a good player, he’s definitely not an asshole and I like playing with him. He just seems to be short on time as a lot of us are these days -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 26 2019 06:47 Alakaslam wrote: What a short read. He suspected Pandain and HF mostly. If he is killed this early, I tend to think he was on the right track. See subsequent vote in vote thread. If folks want a counter wagon, it should be me I think so that my statements can warrant a reread when I am gone. Because then y’all will realize: 1. I was town, and knew Rayn was too 2. That I was playing pretty carefully and pretty attentively 3. That though I couldn’t explain why, I was right on Rayn and am semi- likely to be right on other reads by EOD D2. If Hf vs Pandain well idk I somehow feel they aren’t BOTH scum. Cool, we found scum. Vivax offhand mentioned wanting to look into HF -> slam is trying to stretch this as if he was really on the right track. No way anyone can tell and an offhand comment is not worth significant effort. Newsflash: townies get shot by mafia all the time for all sorts of reasons. I personally think mafia would have gone mason partner hunting last night to avoid having a confirmed townie, but I’m actually a good scum player and whoever is scum in this game (you?) are probably not as good as me at scum (lololol I’m only half seriously being pretentious here, die scum) Lastly slam conveniently tries to point to Vivax’s suspicion of HF and Pandain but: 1. The post mostly focuses on defending himself and is preemptively making himself the “counter wagon” even though there should be no reason for a townie who just said they’d reread the guy shot last night to suddenly randomly defend themselves before anyone has placed a single vote. 2. On HF vs Pandain slam says he thinks both of them can’t be scum yet says absolutely nothing about which one he actually thinks is scum. At odds with the fact that he believes Vivax was on the right track. Surely if slam’s reads are as correct as he believes he should find it easy to point out to us which one of us his reads we should be sheeping and why. If slam believes Vivax was right then why not just consolidate to HF & Pandain for the day??? Unless of course slam is scum and knows neither of them are actually scum already and is hedging his bet here that we haven’t caught him. -wherebugsgo | ||
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Anyway I’m of two minds right now and I need some time to think. It really hinges on who the mason partner is, and I only have two people on my guess list for mason partner. One option will change my reads, or at least one of them. The other option will probably not change my reads. | ||
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On July 26 2019 07:11 Tubesock wrote: FYI Slam often says he needs to die so town isn’t stuck with him lategame as he knows people can’t read him. Secondly, saying both HF and Pandain may not be mafia probably has more to do with the reality that scumreads are often wrong. Not a lot of people have the same confidence that Eywa- was showing. Do you actually have a preference right now between HF and Pandain or is everyone just gonna say they think they meet good lynches and then explain nothing? I’d give it about 24 hours personally before I start considering killing either of them but I agree on principle that HF & Pandain are not bad leads, especially if all of Coag & FF & Chezinu are town (or even two out of three, which is fairly likely) I want to see more opinions on this list of players: FF Coag Chezinu HF Pandain As at least with slam the opinions are already fairly polarized. In my case it’s just a conditional read. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 26 2019 07:23 Tubesock wrote: My way of reading HF is essentially he’s mafia until he proves himself town by doing something that makes life for mafia!HF harder for zero reason. But it requires time and I don’t mind giving him days because I know he’s busy. I also am not that afraid of a mafia HF running around though. He gets a lot of heat every game. Except this one, which to me is interesting. My preference is Pandain (between him and HF). Although I still think you’re mafia but I’m willing to watch you work. I personally am not giving HF much heat because 1. I read him correctly day 1 for two games in a row then started becoming paranoid when he did jack shit into terrible fake claim in the first game, so I led a wagon that killed him. Then he tunneled someone I thought was obvious town (and got him killed) in the second game and fake claimed again?? So HF’s play is erratic enough that I have no confidence in being able to read him properly atm. 2. He caught on the same thing I did with slam @ EoD 3. Engaging with HF is an easy way to pollute the thread. As for Pandain, I’ve played with him twice (?) recently and by this point in the game he’s ordinarily posted a lot more, and everyone has already jumped on him to kill him, but I think I can read him well, especially when in that first game we played I was essentially the only person who correctly and confidently believed he was town. This game he hasn’t done anything to indicate either alignment but the game in general is very slow. What do you think of Coag and FF then? -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 26 2019 07:40 Alakaslam wrote: This excellently states why I am loth to lynch HF early even if he is my top scumread, which at the moment he is. WNG/Jock either of you want to read his filter? It’s Hf but it is also short. I personally don’t see any point at all in considering HF for lynch today when he said he’s busy at work for another 2 days. Since I am adamant that I will not be considering HF for lynch today, I don’t see the point in reading his filter because it’s just an extra thing to think about before day 3. I’d much rather focus on whether there are any scum here: Coag FF Chezinu And you, slam, too! And then let these people show their true colours: HF Pandain Koshi I’d lynch any of the top 4 today, with a preference right now probably toward FF or Coag. I’d lynch any of the bottom 3 on d3 if they continue their current trajectories. This isn’t something I’ve discussed heavily with Jock yet so I will report back in 12-16 hours after work & dinner tonight. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 26 2019 08:28 Holyflare wrote: My gut after seeing vivax flip was bugs calling the shots because of how bad it was. I get this is a meme that you and rayn like to push but I can guarantee you there is a different player that would have warranted the hit last night. I think scum was too dumb to see it, though they would be seriously stupid to not see it now. And actually to me at least the Vivax kill makes it less likely that you are scum because I think you're smart enough to have figured out what I figured out. Maybe too inactive to have figured it out, because there is the possibility that if you're scum you could have delegated the shot to someone else, but that's too convoluted of an explanation for me. The only experienced player in this game that I think might shoot Vivax on N1 would probably be Coag. Slight chance to Pandain but he's also essentially AFK. Anyway, on the basis of the kill alone the only person who looks significantly worse is Coag. You can put 2 and 2 to figure out why Coag and not anyone else in the game. The post-kill speculation makes slam look worse as well, basically just an unforced error; if he had kept his mouth shut I don't think he would have made himself look as bad as he does now. This is the extent to which I'll speculate about that night kill because I really don't think there's much to read into. My top 4 in no particular order is still: slam coag FF Chezinu -wherebugsgo | ||
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HF you can go into the tentative town bucket, I'm upgrading slam to my lynch target of choice. Jock controls our vote though, especially because I'm inactive when everyone else is active and vice versa so I'm delegating to him. He can post his thoughts when he's actually awake and playing, and if my evening dinner date is boring I'll hop on to chat with him then, otherwise will hear back Saturday morning here in Japan. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 26 2019 08:49 Holyflare wrote: Well whoever the mason is I don't think they should really claim because at least mafia can shoot into that shit show. btw if you actually think I am scum, I have figured out who the mason is and had it figured out yesterday almost immediately after the flip. You can take me at my word for this, if I were scum the other mason would be dead right now. Anyway I agree with the mason not needing to claim, because my opinion is that scum this game are too stupid to see it and we don't need to help them out. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 26 2019 09:47 Fecalfeast wrote: also if I'm in your pocket and you're you're doing a powerscum just be careful I'm spiky like a bunch of keys in tight jeans This is a scumclaim | ||
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Like seriously, that post alone just vaulted FF into top 2 scum for me, like ignore Coag ignore Chezinu, it’s slam or FF today. I am not taking any other choices. | ||
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On July 26 2019 11:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Ok I don't like this post from slam at all. The whole part about "making associates later" reeks like TMI and this post is basically slam's way of distancing himself from the lynch so that he's on the right side of the vote that he knows will flip town. Aside from that, he literally admits his reasons for voting the hydra are terrible but he's saving rayn, I view this as scummy since it's hard for me to believe someone organically comes up with a townread so strong on D1 that they're willing to vote for someone else they don't think is scum in order to save them. Alright so I'm still leaning scum on FF, I think that the hydra makes a decent point here I think the TMI argument on slam is actually very strong, and I have some meta reasons as well that I can go over if anyone cares to but I'm really interested as to where you're getting this townread from, could you elaborate more on that? I disagree with the hydra scum read but coag is also a soft townread for me. Was really hoping from more than this from you vivax, picking lurkers as your suspects is weaksauce. Koshi and Tube are definitely my strongest townreads. I think what I've highlighted red here sums up parts of my meta read on slam. Based on my memory, slam is absolutely not playing his usual self and he is aware of it and has tried to emulate that at times but it feels artificial. He is much too serious and, in his own words, careful compared to what town slam does. Ok you and Tube agreeing on this is enough to give me pause but I really would like to know what you think of some of the points I've brought up earlier in this post. I'm not going to just sheep either of you without some decent reasoning behind your thought process. Alright I'm caught up and this is where I'm at. I think the TMI evidence, along with the meta/gut read I've got on slam is the strongest I've got right now. Going to go ahead and vote for him. FF is probably my second strongest read with a mix of Chez/Pandain/the dude who replaced in to round things out. I don’t have a super strong read on Koshi but I also have tube as my strongest town read. I had Vivax as well but he got shot. Jock was stronger on FF being scum than I was, but now I’ve come around. I think the opposite may have been true for slam but not sure, I think we are both in agreement that FF and slam look bad but will wait for Jock to come back in as there are things I want to discuss with him. As for Tube saying that slam reading into why Vivax got shot and fingering HF & Pandain afterward is a fine reason for him to flip his townread, I think that’s a very weak argument. First of all, slam’s response to me when I said “how are you so sure that HF is town here when even though I agree with HF I don’t have a read yet” was basically, cryptic TL;DR “because I know HF well” Then if he knows HF well, he’d know that HF scum would likely never shoot Vivax on n1. Hell, he even made a jab at me because he thinks that is such a whacky kill that only someone with bad night kill skills would do such a thing. On top of that Vivax barely mentioned HF at all, just made one passing comment on both HF and Pandain to look into them. This is 100% not a reason to completely flip your read if you supposedly know HF well, because 1.) he was unlikely to shoot Vivax in the first place and 2.) even if he would shoot Vivax, HF is not such a weak scum player that he’d be worried about an offhand reference like that. If anything it amplifies Vivax’s posts significantly when he was barely active yesterday and would backfire really badly. + Show Spoiler + i know I said I wouldn’t speculate further but I can’t resist. It smells more like a failed mason hunting attempt than anything else because scum are dumb -wherebugsgo | ||
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There is an essentially 0% chance Tube is scum here, and any townie worth their salt should have already realized this. Like there is no tube powerscum play here possible because something incredibly incredibly unlikely would have had to have happened on day 1 for that to be the case. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 26 2019 12:11 Eversince wrote: I will say though I reallly liked your point about FF t!rayn read but not evven bothering to try to save him by moving his vote though if I'm remembreing EoD though. Rayn was so obvious town he soft crumbed stupid early with the Eywa fight my gosh :/.. That was Jock’s point and I agree it is very good. On Koshi, I agree with you that his behaviour in this game is rather odd. He looks the worst out of the 3 players on my watchlist (which I will say now, is just HF Pandain Koshi) and will probably be the replacement for Coag/Chezinu if the two C’s can convince me they are town today. So yeah. We kill slam or FF today. As always Jock controls our vote unless otherwise stated. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 26 2019 12:21 Fecalfeast wrote: I could kill slam On July 26 2019 12:22 Fecalfeast wrote: I'm not going to until hydra dies tho I’ll be surprised if we get lynched but you’re welcome to try. It might advance your win-condition but in the end we’re both town so Tube might not be very happy with you afterward. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 26 2019 12:25 Fecalfeast wrote: Why let jock 'control the vote' when he could just unvote whatever you pick? What? I’m not picking anything, Jock is in full control of who we vote, and I support his decision making. We talk privately and I’ve asked him to focus on reading you because I was focusing on other players. Now I see exactly why he thinks you’re scum and that post alone really stood out to me. Anyway his vote is my vote, that’s all there is to it. -wherebugsgo | ||
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Here’s how it went down: 1. One of my first early reads is to actually lean town on FF. Like mid d1 or so, the state I gave to Jock: + Show Spoiler + For me, I have no reads yet, but some leans: FF - lean town. Maybe strongest read I have Eywa - lean town Tube - lean town Coag - lean town rayn - lean scum Everyone else unmemorable. I want more time to read MZ, I also found his posting a bit odd but I think I find town MZ odd too. I’m waiting for Pandain to post because he’s a valuable asset for bouncing ideas off of if he’s town. This was around the time Jock posted his reaction dump IIRC, we had just shared a couple lists at that point. 2. Day progresses and my reads didn’t really change at all. Jock tells me he thinks MZ is a better vote than rayn and I tell him I’m fine with him voting MZ if he wants. 3. Rayn flips and I tell Jock we should look at people who reacted strangely or tried to take cred for townreading rayn before the flip. My state as I told it to Jock at that point: + Show Spoiler + Right now the top people who stick out to me: HF Slam MZ (Maybe) Koshi (Maybe) FF Rest of the player base still unreadable. Tube looks okay. Still waiting on Pandain to do something and he’d make a good d2/d3 lynch if he continues to skate by. The thing here is that I felt that Jock may have made in in-thread post on FF before I said this to him in the QT, my recollection is not great but I don’t remember my read change on FF being an entirely original thought. However I actually mentioned FF first in our QT. 3. I tell Jock to focus on FF and that I think he’s got a potentially good lead but I’m going to focus on other players, specifically slam and Coag. 4. FF posted a couple speculatory things that I noticed independently from Jock in the thread during the night, and I mention to him to not tell the thread why I have flipped my read on FF but that I have a different reason for believing FF to be scummy than Jock does. I told him I’m happy to push for FF’s lynch today since it’s a read we both seem to be coming to agreement on. However at that time I felt stronger about slam and Jock seemed to me to feel stronger than I did on FF. 5. FF posts that thing about tube superscumming and I think it looks really bad. For me now slam & FF are my top two lynches and I can see why Jock thinks FF is scum because I have now seen at least 3 things independently from Jock that indicate to me that FF is scummy. -wherebugsgo | ||
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9:45 Tubesock votes for us 9:47: On July 26 2019 09:47 Fecalfeast wrote: also if I'm in your pocket and you're you're doing a powerscum just be careful I'm spiky like a bunch of keys in tight jeans This is trying to avoid responsibility for you own vote -J | ||
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-J | ||
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On July 26 2019 14:17 Alakaslam wrote: Actually that wasn’t me, for what it’s worth. I was referring to HF making the jab because HF thinks it’s a low skill move. You can read his gut reaction to the flip, I responded to it so I remember it exists somewhere. I’m saying that since you apparently know HF so well it’s odd that you find the kill implicated him since the HF I know would not be very likely to kill Vivax unless he delegated the kill or it was a bad attempt at mason hunting, and if it were an attempt at mason hunting then the kill doesn’t implicate anyone because any scum would try that. In other words there was no town-motivated reason for you to 180 your read that hard because presumably you’d know this already. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 26 2019 14:08 NoSmurfHere wrote: 9:44 FF votes for us 9:45 Tubesock votes for us 9:47: This is trying to avoid responsibility for you own vote -J Given the other post I made this is kinda wrong I didn't read the context beforehand, let me EBWOP: Earlier: On July 25 2019 09:12 Tubesock wrote: I’m tunneling you till you die. Tubesock has no other very strong scum reads. FF then asks tubesock who he's voting for. 9:44 FF votes for us 9:45 Tubesock votes for us 9:47: On July 26 2019 09:47 Fecalfeast wrote: also if I'm in your pocket and you're you're doing a powerscum just be careful I'm spiky like a bunch of keys in tight jeans This is trying to avoid responsibility for you own vote Here's the thing. FF never specifically said he was townreading tubesock. He never gave any impression that he would have a reason to sheep tubesock until suddenly when we are putting pressure on him he decides to 'sheep' tubesock and vote for us (when it was 100% obvious that TS would vote for us anyway). This is opportunistic to say the least. He then talks about maybe being in TS's pocket as a way of ensuring that we all know that if it goes wrong its not his fault. So FF are you scum or are you so stupid that really didn't already know who TS was going to vote for? -J | ||
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On July 26 2019 14:33 Alakaslam wrote: Oh god this made me feel so guilty. Sorry.... tried to consolidate a bit. You do know that 1. My vote is still on Pandain 2. That I read HF’s filter before changing my mind and encourage others to do the same Right? Maybe not knowing this is forgivable. 1. So is HF your top scumread or not? 2. What exactly did you find in his filter that changed your mind despite the fact that you read the exact same posts on day 1 and used them to draw the conclusion that he is for sure town? -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 26 2019 16:45 Holyflare wrote: No, I don't think it makes him clearly mafia but it's not a bad point either. OK. To me I can't think of a possible town reading of that sequence of events. J | ||
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Right now my top 3 are FF, slam, and Chezinu. Explain why I should care about killing Pandain vs letting him slide another day when some of my top scum reads are actively trying to kill Pandain? From my perspective Pandain looks bad but it’s almost purely on the basis of (in)activity. In both of the games I’ve played recently inactivity was handled appropriately by the hosts and I see no reason to expect that an inactive Pandain is conclusively scum Pandain, especially when there are more, substantial and obvious reasons to kill either FF or slam today. Like note how slam nit picked an entire post of mine and even got the nitpick wrong, then just ignored everything I said. Or how FF cherry picked me and then when I rebutted it he just disappeared and hasn’t responded. Pandain feels different this game, I’ll admit that. I don’t get the confidence people are exuding in lynching him though because I don’t understand the basis for that confidence. What exactly is the case for Pandain other than he hasn’t done much? And on that same basis why aren’t we killing Coag who basically did the exact same thing except post some minorly popular generalities that literally anyone could post? -wherebugsgo | ||
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![[image loading]](https://media1.tenor.com/images/d602f510a2175fbbf64c4fe24a591379/tenor.gif?itemid=7938854) -Jockmcplop | ||
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Game is harder than it should be. Pandain can we expect you to actually do anything day 2? I seem to be the only player who actually believes in giving you a chance to contribute because you are a potential asset if you’re town. If it’s a no, then regardless of your alignment I humbly request you replace out if you can. I like playing with you but I will most definitely not bother defending you today if this play continues. Cause, well, even if you’re not scum you’re not doing anything to indicate that. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 26 2019 22:31 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I just checked the voting thread and remembered chez is voting Tube. C'mon man, give an opinion on the people who are actually being discussed as potential lynch candidates today. I asked earlier for an explanation on this and got none. When I think of Chezinu’s play this game I distinctly get the feel that he is trying to be ignored. Even if Chezinu trolls regardless of alignment I don’t think as town he trolls because he wants to be straight up ignored. He puts useful information in his posts that require people to pay some level of attention, but there is useful information there. In this game he’s not doing that at all, he just seems to be trolling for the sake of trolling and it almost seems like he wants to be dismissed as a non-factor. That only makes sense from a scum Chezinu perspective, IMO. Like why vote tube at all unless he wants to be ignored? -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 26 2019 23:36 Alakaslam wrote: K I guess, since I haven’t moved my vote, he isn’t. But should Pandain flip town he is. I don’t think they are both scum. 2. Have you read it? Do you actually read my posts? I am not going to answer this because I believe my flipping town and being reread more seriously is pro-town. Why does Pandain’s alignment have literally anything to do with HF? Like you don’t actually answer anything, your conclusions make 0 sense. If Pandain flips town HF is scum... because....? Unicorns? They can’t both be scum together, why? Why can’t they both be town??? And if Pandain flips scum why is HF automatically town thereafter? -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 26 2019 23:55 Alakaslam wrote: I agree with this Koshi it is scummy as hell of you and makes me think I am wrong. I will consider you off the lynch table and essentially town for a day if you can successfully start a wagon that lynches Koshi today. I think he’s scum this game. However I also think there is scum in you, FF, and Chezinu and all four of you cannot be scum. You all should fight each other. -wherebugsgo | ||
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Here are some random thoughts with no conclusions whatsoever. I guess they are more observations that others may or may not have noticed. 1. Eywa has gone from being fairly loud on day 1 to essentially completely irrelevant 2. Chezinu is voting tube and hasn’t explained it 3. Slam is making up reasons as he goes along, it seems. Read HF -> must be town Reread HF -> top scum But not that top, Pandain is more top But if Pandain is not, it’s HF But their alignments have nothing to do with each other Oh btw one of them is scum because rayn voters had to have a scum in there Oh but I didn’t mention that because I couldn’t express it ....???? Good night and good luck. -wherebugsgo | ||
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I like in particular his call out of slam for not recognizing any rayn case, because as Pandain pointed out, several people voted rayn and almost everyone cited solid reasons to vote him. The only way slam could be as active as he is and not recognize this is if he is scum, has TMI, and is ignoring those reasons because he already knows rayn is town. Slam has reacted strangely like this to multiple events/players already, like his essentially reasonless HF read flipping (done it twice now) I will admit that personally in my case wanting to kill rayn was mostly that rayn accomplished nothing in 6 pages of filter and attacked us before we even posted, and I didn’t feel like dealing with that garbage this game at all. I’ll kill the most anti-town player on day 1 every game if it makes the game easier to solve. Anyway, at this rate if people are feeling conservative and don’t want to kill a higher activity player who seems quite scummy in slam, or someone like FF, I think Chezinu is a better choice than Pandain given that Pandain actually has some original thoughts that make sense. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 27 2019 08:27 Alakaslam wrote: NO ONE had solid reasons, please stop fooling yourself. I read them all, they were all shit, and I knew it, soon you will know that too, ok? Says the player who can’t even explain what read he has on HF or why despite claiming to know him intimately as a lawyer And soon I will know it? What kind of empty threat is that LOL -wherebugsgo | ||
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We can celebrate 8 years for me while we’re at it -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 27 2019 09:30 Alakaslam wrote: Empty threat? Do you not know I lead the wagon? I will flip tomorrow. You’ll know that I’ve been genuine. What other conclusion can you draw? I have never been good at explaining things. I’ve been good at being right sometimes though. I mean, whatever you flip, the reasons for killing rayn will remain solid. [spoiler]He was useless and would have continued to be useless as he is every game. He flips coins to push lynches and claims he’s a god when he’s right and that he did absolutely nothing wrong when a townie flips despite being 100% certain on everything, like how certain he was that we are scum this game before we even posted. This is backed up by the fact that he has the most games by far on this forum with a decidedly mediocre record and that even with one other townie who knew his alignment he got 6 votes and died on day 1. No matter how you slice it, someone like that who has 6 pages of filter day 1 but still manages to die is not worth keeping around to pollute the game and make it harder for others to play/enjoy. This is a team game, not an ego-stroking contest about who’s the most right about everything all the time (which rayn loses anyway) [spoiler] If you are actually town, take your head out of your ass and try to provide real reasons for the reads you are posting in the thread because what you are doing right now is not working. If you want to be an asshole then you can get deleted from the game. And I’m saying that as someone who doesn’t have direct vote power this game and isn’t even voting you. If you give up as town minutes into d2 before even taking votes (which is what it looked like you did) just because you feel we lynched someone for the wrong reasons on d1 despite the fact that you can’t even articulate those reasons, AND you can’t articulate why we should listen to you now or even who you read as scum, then, well, idgaf what your alignment is and yes it is actually better for us to see you flip because several people other than myself already want you out of the game. If you are town, I’m really actually trying to give you a sense for why people think you’re not. I trust that if you are actually town you’ll make an effort to listen to me and play the game. And before tube says it, no, merely posting does not qualify as town play. -wherebugsgo | ||
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idgaf if you were right once, twice, or three times in a game. Many times the optimal play is to get rid of the least collaborative player regardless of their alignment because then people can actually pool their reads and work the puzzle out because even if that one person they deleted is a genius, if they’re a genius asshole no one was going to listen to them anyway. You may dislike groupthink but this is literally a game that proves the power of groups that work collaboratively versus the futility of individuals who ultimately are more likely to overestimate their own abilities. If you cannot articulate your reasons for thinking things and convince others then for all intents and purposes you may as well be flipping coins. None of the rest of us can tell any difference and none of your posts establish to us that you’re worth paying attention to. Think about all the best town players on this forum. Foolishness, Radfield, kita, sandroba, syllogism, marv (when he wasn’t burned out like me and being a dick hahaha). All of these players have good reads, yes, but they work very well with others, and almost never get lynched, because they are genuinely collaborative. Compare to people who probably have good reads about as often but are terrible collaborators and you’ll see the stark difference in team outcomes. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 27 2019 12:28 Chezinu wrote: His list of best town players and my list of best town players are totally different.. he didnt even have Ver or BC in his list... I never played with Ver. Incognito yes, one game only though...I think. Or maybe that was me cohosting. I love BC and think he’s a great scum player, probably top 5 scum. I think his town play is average and he’d probably agree with me. Like me, BC is prone to catch on logic errors and people going pants-on-head which often distracts from scum hunting because tiniest act illogically all the time. Also we both share a good rage every now and then. Replace BC with Ace and exactly the same thing applies IMO. P.S. fuck coffee Actually fuck anything that isn’t water -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 27 2019 09:30 Alakaslam wrote: What other conclusion can you draw? I have never been good at explaining things. I’ve been good at being right sometimes though. The problem is one of availability. -J | ||
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On July 27 2019 15:28 Branch.AUT wrote: Theres one post by the hydra that i mentioned above that also makes me suspicious. The way the thought is phrased just seems like he knows too much about the setup How so? | ||
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On July 27 2019 14:58 Branch.AUT wrote: This sounds like you were already anticipating a coag lynch. Which would make your life easier only if youre scum, and you already knew coag would flip town. Very suspicious. Nope. I wasn't anticipating a coag lynch because I 1. wasn't voting Coag (Jock controls the vote so even if I did want to vote Coag it would've been down to what Jock thought), 2. no one else wanted to kill Coag, and 3. I never actually believed he was the best lynch for today and AFAIK Jock doesn't either. As for why I said the game is harder than it should be, replacements make the game harder because: 1. the original player was inactive warranting the replacement and inactivity is hard to deal with in general 2. given the replacement will have a different style it'll take time to read them and adjust/reconcile the differences between the two players. I pretty much just ignore the replacement for the first cycle 3. There's been a history of scum replacements in particular wrecking face because they get a ton of leeway and they essentially have a cycle headstart. 4. The replacement themselves might be less active than an average player, depending on the reason they decided to be a replacement and not join the game in the first place (like if they have less time than usual) Anyway, you're new, so I don't expect you to be able to understand every thought process that folks have right off the bat, and I like that you're thinking. Actually so far I don't see anything particularly wrong with your posts so maybe I'll even count you townish for now. Just note that this post came off to me a bit like you're overthinking things that might remotely involve you (given that you know what I said about Coag and you are the same alignment). If you think I'm scum I encourage you to read my posts at face value in their entirety instead of nitpicking me, because nitpicking will not get you very far. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 27 2019 10:36 Alakaslam wrote: Actually I am sick of the group think. If I fully articulated the reasons I know stuff I don’t think they’d be believed anyway. They are usually combinations of a lot of little things that I don’t immediately have total recall of. Have you ever met a brilliant illiterate? Not that I am illiterate, but my mind has a totally different style of memory from most people on here. I am not a garbage trap mind, that has total recall of a lot of facts. Nor am I a particularly deep thinker; if I were, I could meditate on my reads and eventually articulate them- if not beautifully and concisely so in fact. What I am, is someone who can recognize patterns accurately even when I cannot describe them. My IQ scores were great! My actual general knowledge, isn’t so great! My ability to recognize that someone is being sarcastic is pure shit! But my ability to recognize when something is not right is pretty damn good, and recognizing someone’s family comes naturally to me. So describing my reads sucks. I have a decidedly terrible record. So I agree? Like my vote is where it is as of when I recognized what you are trying to tell me. BUT HERE IS THE KICKER I WAS RIGHT I DIDNT KNOW WHY BUT I WAS DEAD CERTAIN. WHEN I AM CERTAIN, I KNOW. So if I am certain again, I want to at least leave the game something to go on before I go. Tomorrow, I go to Malibu to take photos with my fiancé. I won’t be here for EOD. I may or may not move my vote before then but I doubt it. Unfortunately at the moment I am not certain on anyone like I was certain on Rayn. I will try to be before I go but I can only do what I can, I am better at townreads than scum reads. If you die at EoD today will you feel like you have accomplished what you wanted to? I'd like to be able to communicate properly with you but I'm a child, I talk like a child, I think like a child, I reason like a child. -J | ||
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On July 27 2019 16:57 Eversince wrote: @Jock Also if he's actually town that's the most m!Slam way t!Slam can make. He's literally playing as scum because if he IS town and martyrs, we have 1 mislynch to catch all 3 mafia.. (not jock, but FWIW) I actually was thinking about slam martyr voting himself and I just don't get it. Like we were in the vote lead (technically) and if he was scum he could have sheeped FF & tube on us and comfortably put us in the lead; Pandain's vote would've tied but it would have needed another vote to put slam in the lead again. So why self vote to put himself in the lead exactly? As either alignment? I'll be honest, I'm leaning toward just looking at someone else today because I'm having a hard time understanding slam's play from either perspective, and FF has some redeeming posts from day 1 & doesn't seem like anyone else thinks FF is scum. What if we just killed Koshi? -wherebugsgo | ||
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-J | ||
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On July 27 2019 17:18 Eversince wrote: If he's mafia trying to push himself to death so he can 'spend time with future wife' seems like a good way to play Appeal to Emotion card like he's done all game. People move, he get free pass to drop from the game for "reason he already posted" But that's a really rude move. (This last sentence might be my bias though, I don't lie about afk  )I'd be ok with Koshi. He's playing like a lost sheep and that dumpster of a mess between HF/Koshi/Slam was just really bad. I would probably of ask same type of questions in HF shoes (not really because I thought Rayn was town to, but here again.. bias. I sub in after Rayn is already dead.) Chez would be fine with me to. He's literally contributed 0 to this game .I’m good with killing Chezinu too but I think Jock finds him unreadable. I moved Koshi off my watchlist and onto my kill list. Moved eywa into my watchlist, but the activity drop was expected as eywa mentioned it. I think I’m fine with punting both HF and Pandain to tomorrow and neither of them will die today, that seems for sure. I think I move FF to watchlist as well, that one I’m not sure about...I have plenty of reasons I wanna kill FF but again some tone-wise good posts even if I think the content is bad. Here’s my lists in no particular order Kill: Koshi Slam Chezinu Watch: FF Eywa Everyone else: tentatively townreading Dead game -wherebugsgo | ||
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##unvote ##vote koshi -J | ||
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On July 27 2019 18:58 Branch.AUT wrote: What he said was the game 'got harder' when coag was replaced and the slot went from inactive to active player. From a town perspective, one more player is one more lynch chance. From a mafia perspective, one more player means one more chance got get caught. It is because ofthis mind slip, readjusting scum strategy around another required mislynch, that I find NSHs play very suspicious. The immediat willingness so switch vote from slam to koshi at an opportunistic moment makes me shift my assessment of the hydra even further towards scum. again, nope 1. "another" required mislynch -> if I were scum I wouldn't care, anyone in this game is lynchable. Number of mislynches to win doesn't change. 2. we never voted slam. Our vote was on FF, and as I mentioned earlier he was not gaining any traction. Try to keep up. 3. What opportunistic moment? Literally no one was talking about Koshi until I mentioned him. Why the hell would I bother shifting attention to Koshi as scum if slam is town? I'd just let slam die quietly instead of bothering to post anything at all. Unless you're implying that we're scum with slam, which is laughable. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 27 2019 19:29 Branch.AUT wrote: Your sudden and unexplained koshi push baffles me. How do you arrive at a scum!koshi conclusion? I don't know how you could come to any other conclusion tbh. -J | ||
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On July 27 2019 19:36 Eversince wrote: To summarize why I think that: Koshi buddies right up to Eywa super early, He's been sheeping 'best player Slam' from pretty early, then when Slam makes some questionable remark about Vivax read, he's wayyy over defensive on it. and now he's just fine with dying which sends the same red flags (pretty darn big red flags about just rolling over and dying) I think most of his reads are not original and the mess that occurs from it is bleh. while we're at it, my reasons are different (good sign that Koshi is scum) 1. Koshi knows rayn pretty well but often specifically called rayn "anti-town" instead of "scum" even before the flip: On July 25 2019 00:41 Koshi wrote: If you read rayn page 5 and dont vote him limits are off again for this game. Pure anti town shitty behaviour. Dont vote for that. Keep anti town in the game. Good move. This is relatively small by itself but important together with other details, like: 2. On day 1 Koshi posted a lot of things that seemed to indicate he has too much information, and in particular kind of ridiculed people from the sidelines for things that are not really obvious when you don't have complete information. For example: On July 25 2019 00:33 Koshi wrote: Ewya says rayn is mafia. -> People think Ewya is town. Hydra agrees with Eywa -> People call hydra mafia for the dumbest reasons. Oh well. On July 25 2019 00:36 Koshi wrote: Here another person who interprets something wrong and I saw some1 else actually agreeing with the wrong interpretation. What the smurf means: Normally I find it scummy if somebody so strongly scumreading somebody else. However, in the case of Ewya, I think it is in his town range. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RAYN HIS ALIGNMENT OR THE HYDRA THEIR VIEW ON RAYN. The second post in particular indicates to some degree that he knows Vivax is town, interpretting something incorrectly, then also implies that he knows there are other people who "agreed" with this. Then he speaks on our behalf as if he knows we're town and this: On July 25 2019 00:38 Koshi wrote: How you people dont get that is beyond me. Anyway I am afk. I havent read anything but at least enough there is 1 person worthy to sheep. Also, people also call hf town, and hf calls rayn mafia. AND STILL THOSE PEOPLE vote for the scumread of rayn... lol. Lastly, 3. Koshi calls out people for doing stuff/being things he himself admits to doing. This is particularly evident for what he claims about HF: On July 27 2019 19:28 Koshi wrote: Try to actually read what I mean Eversince and try to think about what I mean. If you think I meant HF is a bad human being for being civil and that was the entire point of my post then maybe just stop playing mafia. My point was clear. HF doesnt give a shit this game and you can see him giving a shit in his argument with me. That same engagement does not trabslate into solving the game. If that is not a good point for somebody being mafia then w.e. I am not saying it makes him 100% mafia though. Bonus points for that hedge right at the end. Similarly, On July 27 2019 19:19 Koshi wrote: Pretty sure hf is mafia just skating by. You saw the waterfall on words in his argumebt with me? You saw something like that solving this game? Nope... And he was too diplomatic and clean in the end. Trying to shade me a bit with the Alakasam fanclub and shit. Oh well. It worked. Good on him and On July 26 2019 18:04 Koshi wrote: Ok you admit to not reading. I am fine lynching you then. Compare what Koshi says about HF in those posts to what he says about himself: On July 27 2019 19:15 Koshi wrote: First. I am not really reading this game but skimming. Important that you know that. For me it is lack of solving. I have no idea what he is doing big picture wise. And his attack on slam looked so bad. Others seem to not agree but it was just nitpicking some poor sob into oblivion. Didnt seem like anything good would come out of it. On July 27 2019 19:08 Koshi wrote: I am still ok with dieing. I think HF could be mafia at this point. Did nothing but focus on some dumb shit that would not be a townie priority. So those 4 names I said. I am happy with them. I didnt know eywa announced this afk stuff though. But still. Too long. Deserves to go down in list. Maybe I should reread mz but Vivax told me he was town. "I'm okay with dying" = more or less doesn't give a shit about this game On July 25 2019 00:38 Koshi wrote: How you people dont get that is beyond me. Anyway I am afk. I havent read anything but at least enough there is 1 person worthy to sheep. Also, people also call hf town, and hf calls rayn mafia. AND STILL THOSE PEOPLE vote for the scumread of rayn... lol. On July 26 2019 18:04 Koshi wrote: Guys... I dont think I will do quality posting this game. But I will at least not spam. On July 26 2019 07:10 Koshi wrote: I'll sheep slam even though I dont think Pandain is the best kill. But I dont know who is. etc. yeah, paragon of effort in trying to solve the game here. -wherebugsgo | ||
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I don't know where to start. I've had to reread your posts a few times because its kinda hard to even get where you're coming from with this stuff. This case you think you have here is rubbish though. Bugs says something non aligment indicative You interpret it to mean that bugs was saying the game is harder for him now because he's mafia Bugs said that he never meant that at all You just refuse to believe that your shitty interpretation is wrong and vote for us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You make up some bullshit that you still haven't explained about an 'opportunistic moment' which you just invented out of nothing. You claim we are following,not leading on the Koshi thing and you are factually wrong about that. Sure, people might have mentioned some scummy behaviour from koshi but no-one pushed it until we voted for him. Post #912 Bugs says we should kill koshi post #914 Eversince agrees Then we vote koshi. I suggest if you're going to twist things into a case you make sure you don't lie about stuff that we can just go and look at. It took me 5 seconds to prove you wrong about this lol -Jock | ||
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There aren't many people playing who haven't been called suspicious a few times. You could say the same thing if we went after: Alakaslam holyflare Eywa Pandain Chezinu MZ Even counting yourself if you count all the people that called coag suspicious saying 5 people called koshi suspicious in 48 pages of content is literally saying nothing at all. | ||
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I would suggest you just look at koshi and you will see that he's scum. Then switch your vote to koshi. -Jock | ||
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On July 27 2019 22:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Ohhh I made this post before fully catching up and missed the hydra's case... I may have to reconsider chez vs koshi now. Here's where I am on Slam: If he's mafia and he's self voting he's doing it to try and keep votes away from other mafia. Otherwise he's town and just wants to die cos he thinks it will help town. Either way voting for him at this point is bad. Koshi is scum however and he will get stronger as the game gets smaller. If you think he is mafia kill him today. -J | ||
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On July 27 2019 22:52 Koshi wrote: Anyway. I am going to follow rayn page 5. Maybe the hydra is scum. I don't believe it myself but I am not solo voting. And the hydra is one of those dumb as fuck townreads of mine so good stuff. So you are taking your vote off chezinu, who you scumread, to vote with for us, who you townread, who chezinu is also voting for? | ||
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On July 27 2019 22:54 NoSmurfHere wrote: So you are taking your vote off chezinu, who you scumread, to vote with for us, who you townread, who chezinu is also voting for? AFTER WHAT YOU SAID TO PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR US WHILE SCUMREADING RAYN??? Mafia. -J | ||
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On July 25 2019 00:33 Koshi wrote: Ewya says rayn is mafia. -> People think Ewya is town. Hydra agrees with Eywa -> People call hydra mafia for the dumbest reasons. Oh well. On July 27 2019 22:54 NoSmurfHere wrote: So you are taking your vote off chezinu, who you scumread, to vote with for us, who you townread, who chezinu is also voting for? lol -J | ||
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Are you comfortable with that? -J | ||
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Tube I’m just going to come out and say it now, are you the mason or was the mason afk yesterday?? Take your head out of your ass and read my posts. Read the one I just posted on Koshi. That’s probably the best case in this entire game so far, if I don’t say so myself. And it isn’t lecturing anyone on how good my scum game is. I actually highly doubt you’re even reading our posts and the only reason you’d tunnel us this hard is if you somehow still believe rayn was right about us (before we even posted...????) -wherebugsgo | ||
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Tubesock, take that in for a minute. You are casting the deciding vote right now but if koshi wasn't deliberately trying to kill town we wouldn't be in the lynch lead. How can you not think that is the most mafia thing that has happened in the game so far? 100% koshi is mafia. -J | ||
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On July 27 2019 23:30 Branch.AUT wrote: Youre making up connections between players, which is purely speculative. I urge you to focus your attention on your top read, and vote this one person You should actually read his post because what he is saying is 100% correct and obvious to anyone who isn’t playing their first game (aka you) Like seriously step back and consider that he might have a point, given that he has been playing this game for 10+ years and you just stepped into your first one today. First, you call us scum for voting slam and chasing low hanging fruit in Koshi. Which implies: 1. We are scum 2. Slam is town 3. We switched our vote away from slam because we’re afraid of the implication that occurs when slam flips town 4. Koshi is town and low hanging fruit. Let’s say you actually believe that the slip reasoning you used earlier is legit to call us scum, whatever. Me telling you that it isn’t a slip isn’t going to change anything. Except, with everything else: 1. We weren’t voting slam 2. You haven’t explained why slam is town 3. You haven’t explained why Koshi is town 4. You haven’t explained why Koshi, who had taken no votes until I talked about him, is low hanging fruit Okay. Then, you go and make posts that independently assert Koshi is scum. So if he’s low hanging fruit AND scum, AND we’re scum too, why would we draw attention to ourselves to bus a teammate when we can just let supposedly townie slam die by doing absolutely nothing at all?? we didn’t even need to vote slam for him to be in the lead so it would be completely safe for us! In addition, if you independently think Koshi is scum and an easy kill why don’t you just vote him with us and we can get rid of an easy scum today? I don’t understand how we factor into that at all. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 27 2019 23:52 Holyflare wrote: Don't lynch koshi jesus christ. Why is he trying to kill town then hf? -J | ||
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-J | ||
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On July 27 2019 23:45 Koshi wrote: I hope I die and that you are town wbg. I hope you die too ROFL I find it hilarious that this branch dude is voting us with you & Chezinu, when you called Chezinu scum and who the hell knows why Chezinu is voting us On July 27 2019 23:56 Holyflare wrote: You think a mafia player trying to not look bad and avoid a lynch just starts killing off his town reads and mimicing rayn page 5 that he used to kill rayn? I don't think so. HF you can do better than this, unless ofc you’re actually scum too here. Koshi is basically flailing. He has literally 0 original reads this game. Also he’s voting us (???) when Chezinu, his scumread, is also voting us. His top townread, slam, martyred essentially out of the gate on d2 before even taking a vote, and then martyred for real later by pushing himself into the lead. Koshi himself is soft-martyring (no idea why). Anyway, read my quote post on Koshi from a page or two back. If you disagree then feel free to explain to the class why Koshi is town this game. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 28 2019 00:11 Koshi wrote: Wbg and MZ are pants on head town. Slam is good but not good enough. Tube is new hero. Eywa is mia and actually should be looked at when back. Rest is tip top town that is doing what they can. ...???? If we’re all town then where are the mafia and why aren’t you voting them? Like you see tube tunneling us to oblivion and you join the wagon instead of bringing people together LOL And speak nothing of the fact that the newbie replacement is voting us but you’re not calling him pants on head. Come on Koshi you can’t be this obv scum right? -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 28 2019 00:20 Holyflare wrote: Anyone not lynching chezinu may as well claim mafia now. My next goal will be to go through the rayn defenders d1 at some point. Starting with that weird as fuck eversince post that probably came from info in the mafia QT. ...??? Didn’t eversince replace AFTER rayn died? HF I actually don’t understand anything you are posting anymore. I agree that Chezinu hasn’t done anything and that he’s not a bad lynch. But why now...??? And why have you switched off killing slam, who fits your description of rayn defender to a T? It’s like you’ve magically forgotten that he’s one of the top contenders for a lynch and has a bunch of votes on him. Like starting a new wagon at this point is a good way to ensure we die instead of scum. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 28 2019 00:25 Holyflare wrote: I really just don't care. You lynch Chezinu today, we win tomorrow and it's fine. This post is just you whining about survival while simultaneously saying Chezinu is a good lynch. Pick an argument and stick to it, Bugs. The Eversince point is exactly what I mean. She know something about a rayn soft claim with Eywa after the fact and I want her to explain what she means. I maintain that Chezinu is not a bad lynch but I don’t see how he’s the best one. You even admit to not reading him. It’s a literal lurker lynch. Anyway, the vote is not in my control because it’s 12:30 a.m. here and I will go to sleep and wake up after deadline. I have no idea what will happen in the next 3-4 hours and I don’t want to commit to killing Chezinu purely to save ourselves especially when you’re not even a particularly strong townread for me anymore, and the best reason to kill Chezinu is “he hasn’t done anything” and that same reasoning could have been used on Coag prior to replacement. I don’t think killing based on inactivity at a point in the game where there is actual concrete evidence on other players (Koshi, slam) is high value prop. I also don’t get the “we win tomorrow” part either because surely there are more than 2 scum in this game -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 28 2019 00:31 Holyflare wrote: This is such a facetious argument even that I think it makes you quite likely mafia. Not only are you at 3 votes and not the current vote leader (Slam is) but you also say that Chezinu is scummy. There's like 5 hours or so to a lynch and if you vote Chezinu he will be tied leader. Then everyone in this entire game has to afk for the remaining 5 hours for you to die even though I am about to campaign for this lynch ON SOMEONE YOU THINK COULD BE MAFIA and should be the easiest lynch in the world since absolutely nobody in this game can possibly defend Chezinu in any way to stop him being lynched. All you care about is not lynching mafia and maintaining slam in a vote lead but you say you want to lynch mafia which is a lie. If you think we’re mafia then just grow the balls to kill us right here and now because this shit logic is starting to tire me out. Like seriously if a townie flips instead of us and then we get tunneled into oblivion I’m going to literally do nothing because I’ll be on a flight Monday to the U.S. and if the game state is like this and people (like this branch dude) are running around with garbage logic then I won’t be arsed to even phone post. I actually feel really bad for Jock in that situation but I imagine he’s pretty frustrated too. -wherebugsgo | ||
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I actually at this point have no desire to collaborate with you almost purely out of spite because if you are again town here this is the third game in a row where you have just straight up refused to collaborate/listen. Like you don’t even bother to read my posts and then you read all sorts of weird things into it and cherry pick me while completely ignoring the obvious face value meaning of my posts. And you have the gall to ask us to vote someone you say you haven’t even read!! Why should anyone sheep that?? I’m going to bed and will let poor Jock make the difficult decision of where to place our vote because I need sleep. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 28 2019 00:50 Holyflare wrote: Imagine saying you won't vote Chezinu because Holyflare (who you town read) hasn't read him even though you independently say Chezinu is a good vote. At this very moment I don’t townread you. I have no idea why I should townread you anymore, honestly. You still haven’t explained that eversince thing being related to rayn when rayn died before she fucking joined the game. You’re clearly not reading, and now you’ve come up with some convoluted story about us being scum with Chezinu. If that’s the case, just vote us instead of Chezinu, since it saves you the effort of creating a new wagon. -wherebugsgo | ||
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I can't figure out where you're coming from at all. "Just trust me" isn't doing it for me. -J | ||
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##vote chezinu | ||
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On July 28 2019 03:09 Koshi wrote: Pandain and Hydra unwilling to lynch Chezinu. Doesnt make chezinu anything but it is curious. Unwilling as in willing, right? Up is down with you koshi. Left is right. We are literally willing to lynch chez. In fact, we voted for chez quicker than tubesock did. He took over an hour to change his vote after he posted his comment about liking to watch hf or something. So why isn't tubesock on your list? Maybe its because that's really bad way to decide who's scum. You're talking bollocks. -J | ||
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On July 28 2019 04:01 Koshi wrote: Ah. Both gave reasoning not to vote Chez today while saying Chez is a good lynch. Are you going to talk about everyone that did this,or just select the people that you already wanted to talk about? -J | ||
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-J | ||
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Its lose/lose for mafia. | ||
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On July 28 2019 04:36 Holyflare wrote: Don't you guys think Koshi is mafia though? Yeah but as it is we're already lynching mafia so what's the point in switching? If koshi dies then good. He's being a pain in the ass as well as acting very scummy. If chez dies then also good because he's mafia. With the wagons the way they are there just isn't any point in switching from one scum to another and tying things up. -J | ||
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On July 28 2019 04:45 Pandain wrote: Yeah 100% Jugs are you certain both are scum? Did I say 100%? I said if koshi dies then good because he's being a pain in the ass and acting scummy. If you take that to mean that I think koshi is 100% certain mafia then you are reading it wrong. | ||
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On July 28 2019 04:59 Branch.AUT wrote: Cutting it very close to deadline here. I dislike this Chezinu Lynch sinze it's 8/11 just bad. Voting him anyway because of town Oh man this looks bad branch. -J | ||
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I hope you are scum here but almost on basis of tone you feel town. We should have killed Koshi like I said to begin with. -wherebugsgo | ||
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Killing Koshi was the information play because of the straight up bizarre interactions he had with slam, HF, and a whole host of other players. -wherebugsgo | ||
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1. Pandain comes off looking fairly townish. He uses sound logic to really push Koshi hard on sheeping slam and not having any original reads etc. and all of his points were good. Two players tag team on discrediting Pandain constantly to essentially hope it goes away but Pandain persisted and did not let up. These two players are Koshi himself, and somebody probably no one noticed, FF. 2. Reason #2 for Pandain looking more town is that simply as scum he had very little scum-motivated reason to try and push the lynch in the direction of Koshi, particularly if it was TvT, because he could’ve merely continued to do what he’s done most of the game and lurk or even just go along with killing Chezinu as Chezinu was scumread universally. Keep this in mind as there is another player who did indeed lurk and got away with it. 3. Koshi essentially openly flailed due to Pandain’s line of questioning. In fact pretty much Pandain’s questioning by itself caused Koshi to squirm because Koshi was never able to answer properly why he trusted slam so much. Koshi’s best response to shade Pandain was along the lines of “first you said I changed my reads and then when I said I had none you said that’s even worse and that’s scummy!” (Lol) Pandain is 100% right that Koshi has no original reads this game and it’s something I pointed out yesterday as well. 4. Fecalfeast’s sole contribution throughout multiple pages was to shade Pandain and defend koshi from the sideline. Absolutely no actual reasons but he exposed himself really hard there on Koshi’s behalf and I have no idea why a town FF would do that instead of just evaluating the facts on face-value basis. 5. FF’s reaction post-flip is to gauge reactions of players as to “who next” rather than try to synthesize what the fuck just happened. Clearly not trying to figure out the game. 6. Slam was completely afk. 7. Branch is new and difficult to read, probably should read the newbie guide but it seems like people are already preemptively setting things up to push him tomorrow. As much as I think he’s an idiot for thinking we are scum, I really don’t think he’s the best lynch and I’m wary of anyone (particularly HF) who is moving toward pushing him now. 8. HF is a difficult read but there are nuggets of “I don’t know why a scum HF would do this” in his posts; the late wagon push is one of them, though he very well could be mafia with Koshi & slam due to how hard he argued with Koshi yesterday yet he townreads Koshi mysteriously. For me personally HF is back to a wait-and-see. At this point, with the number of instances of straight hard defending between Koshi, FF, and slam, one of them must die tomorrow. I think they’re all good chances to flip scum but I’d probably put Koshi at the top right now. Mafia reads: Koshi FF Slam Town reads: Tube Eversince Pandain Meapak Lean town: Branch Eywa Null: Holyflare -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 28 2019 08:39 Tubesock wrote: NoSmurf, Now that you know I’m not Mason, I don’t see how I can be your top town. We disagree on almost every read. Even philosophically I think we differ on nearly everything. We just don’t have any common ground. I can’t wrap my head around it. You tell me. I actually don’t know how to read you atm. You do nothing but push us, but I guess such a strong tunnel is more townish than scummish. I just don’t understand why you think we’re scum when we’re one of 3, maybe 4 players actually trying to figure out the game (eversince, Meapak, and Pandain fall into this bucket for me) I also have no idea what it means if you’re not mason. Mason AFKed day 1 and didn’t vote with rayn? That explains why he just rolled over and died but it’s so bad on so many levels. I guess that’s not surprising to me, but it sucks if all of our blues were essentially worthless this game. Now I’m wishing I had rolled blue instead because it happens so rarely  -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 28 2019 23:41 Holyflare wrote: It's not a blind random lynch into an inactive though is it? If you've narrowed down players that you think are town the odds of him being mafia increase. He wasn't classified as super inactive either, he had posted things in the thread just none of it content (which, again, increases the odds of him being mafia). What’s your list looking like now? Are you actually ready to try and collaborate now or are you still gonna do your own thing and ignore everything I’m saying as you’ve always done? We need to make some shortcuts now because we’re in a really bad situation, and one of the shortcuts I’m willing to make is to consider you town because we’re almost certainly not lynching you tomorrow, and if you’re scum we’ve lost the game already. My scumreads: Koshi FF slam If wrong on one of those, then probably one or two of branch/eywa/tube Mason in here somewhere: Eversince Branch Slam (already denied it) Tube (already denied it) Tell me what you’re thinking and with Jock here as well maybe we can figure out the game. Whoever is mason please claim at the beginning of day 3 because there are two night kills on n3. Without that confirmed townie the game is way harder. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 28 2019 23:50 Holyflare wrote: What if I told you I was rayn's partner but had to afk and didn't save him? What if I told you I was rayn’s partner and we tried to kill each other because we hate each other’s guts? I won without even trying though. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 28 2019 23:51 Holyflare wrote: Don't think I agree with any of your scum reads and I'm packing my house to move this week so mafia should probably leave me alive anyway because I'm no use. Care to explain why Pandain & MZ then? Cause they’re basically (?) the only two players I didn’t list as potential suspects. Surely you have some townreads, or any sort of reads at this point. Anyway I’m going to check in a couple times tomorrow but I’ll be gone for quite a bit since I’m flying to the U.S. and I have work. Will leave the game in the care of Jock, y’all can figure it out. Believe in the you that I believe in and we can win. -wherebugsgo | ||
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If we die today town loses. Just read our posts and read why tube considered us scum (look at it from our perspective). Regardless of whatever reasons (??) rayn and tube had, they weren’t good. If you believe they are good, just lay them out and we can address them. As for who should actually die today, I think the best bets are: Koshi FF I think slam and Eywa are also potential choices, depending on what they do today. However since we cannot lynch incorrectly, I think we should kill Koshi. My reasons on Koshi, FF, and slam have been laid out already. I think slam is the player that most others have been really calling town. Pandain why did you say he comes out looking better? For Eywa, besides day 1 hard pushing rayn, Eywa has really done nothing this game, especially d2. The inactivity was preannounced but now we’re in mylo. If Eywa doesn’t step it up today and slam does (or vice versa) I think it becomes a difficult decision. Personally this will probably be my last post for quite a while since I’m going to work and then boarding a 10 hour flight in the evening. Feel free to @me any questions you have and I’ll try to answer them when I’m back. If you vote us without asking anything then I can only say we tried our best -wherebugsgo | ||
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But still, kill Koshi first. “I will kill whoever town chooses” lol -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 29 2019 08:13 Holyflare wrote: My case: Bugs has been more concerned finding a mason the entire game than actually playing mafia. Vote please. I'd like people to read this and go look at our filter and see how wrong it is. -J | ||
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I literally could make a case on any player in this game. Understandably lots of people don’t have time to play much and neither do I. So discounting activity altogether and judging players purely based on content leads me to the reads that I have. I’ll save my ranting on the quality of play and what dead players did in particular for postgame since it’s not going to do us any good now, and actually overall I enjoyed the game since I could share with Jock and keep myself at ease knowing that I’m not insane given the complete wonk logic that’s being accepted as legit these days. Meapak, Pandain, Eversince, if any of you are scum here then kudos for making the most sense despite posting very little. On the basis of content alone you’re my strongest townreads. If any of you are town please talk with Jock in my absence, and me if I manage to get some time to post after my flight & back-to-back work Mondays (I get to experience Monday twice yay). There’s a small possibility we can still win if we lynch scum today, though the game seems hopeless. I’m sure no one has a perfect list of scumreads but maybe if we pool them we can figure out which ones overlap and just go with those. I’m personally still very sure on Koshi. HF, I am hoping you are scum here otherwise I will have some choice words for you in postgame. This game was very winnable but you have an extremely selfish approach to the game and while I like some of the things you pointed out, particularly on slam on d1, that is not enough to overshadow the fact that in general your play is incredibly antitown even when you are town. Regardless of alignment this game is no exception. If you’re scum then kudos Eywa, branch, FF, slam, Koshi: the townies among you should pull your own weight and establish your innocence & don’t fuck up today. If you vote us, that’s an automatic fail. Read the game and come up with your own opinions instead of sheeping. I maintain that Koshi is still the best lynch given the information I have at hand. Feel free to read my previous posts on the subject, nothing much has changed. I’ll see you all on the other side of the Pacific. -wherebugsgo | ||
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I like how everyone keeps conveniently forgetting that rayn decided we were mafia before we even posted anything. I've been defending us from morons and mafia ever since that moment. I'm fucking sick of it now to be honest I'm going to ignore everything the mafia and morons are saying about us and just make the case for koshi dying. If town decides to listen to mafia and kill us then so be it. If town decides that their detective work of figuring out that only we would want to kill tubesock and the mafia could never have realized this and used it is better then town loses. If people are willing to listen to us, to look at day 2 with sensible eyes and see the progression of how that day went from the beginning to the end they will know that we aren't mafia, we've been trying to find mafia this entire time and every time we do people scum read us for it. Koshi was willing to sheep a vote on us even though he thought we were town. When people started joining us on the koshi vote all of a sudden him and hf turn up and completely change the game going for a chez lynch instead, and hf then uses the results of that lynch to push us, even though he inferred heavily that we were town at the end of day 2. We are the patsy for whoever out of koshi/hf are leading the mafia. Koshi was acting incredibly scummy for the whole of day 2. He was blatantly lying about things that happened, misrepresenting facts etc. etc. The case has already been made by myself as well as others. There's no reason not to believe koshi is mafia if you believed that yesterday. If you are changing to believe that we are mafia instead on the basis that tubsesock died, then you are easily manipulated and the worst thing about that is that the mafia knows you are easily manipulated. I'll post again if pandain/eywa/slam/MZ/Branch/ES want to talk about the lynch. Otherwise do what the fuck you want. HF and koshi can do one. -J | ||
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-J | ||
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-J | ||
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On July 29 2019 17:22 Holyflare wrote: . Do you think Koshi is being scum read because he got some reads right or something? People are scum reading him for unexplained reads, lack of follow up and inability to answer questions about those reads. Are you scum reading him for that or do you still town read him cos he calls people stupid? | ||
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On July 29 2019 17:22 Holyflare wrote: . Do you think Koshi is being scum read because he got some reads right or something? People are scum reading him for unexplained reads, lack of follow up and inability to answer questions about those reads. I'm saying because this seems much more convincing to me than: On July 28 2019 00:14 Holyflare wrote: I don't really care bugs, you can push Koshi all you want for content but that's not particularly how you read Koshi. It's more of a tone thing and what he seems to care about, which is people being stupid and doing stupid things in his world view of alignments. I can't be the only one. -J | ||
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What information has town gained from the tubesock night kill? -J | ||
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On July 29 2019 22:57 Holyflare wrote: That you're mafia because all that you and bugs truly care about is tubesock night kill when you're dying. MAFIA ##unvote vote hf | ||
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On July 29 2019 22:57 Holyflare wrote: That you're mafia because all that you and bugs truly care about is tubesock night kill when you're dying. I was hoping I could get you specifically to answer that. We all know this kind of night kill is WIFOM. Only mafia with massive ego would be so attached to that stupid plan that they would come out and say it in the thread lol | ||
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On July 29 2019 22:59 Holyflare wrote: Not a single person in this game has accused me of being properly mafia when there is a tubesock AND a vivax night kill. Why is that? It's because the other people who are likely to be these night kills (koshi, bugs) etc don't want to bring attention to that fact and point themselves out. If we wanted to hide as mafia do you really think we'd NK someone who has ONLY scumread us the entire game? Don't be a moron. It was a stupid mafia plan with no foresight and you can't admit it. -J | ||
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On July 29 2019 23:01 Holyflare wrote: Jock where are you and bugs communicating? We have our own QT -J | ||
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On July 29 2019 23:03 Holyflare wrote: You got me, that really sounds similar to my mafia play !I don't even understand what this mafia plan you're talking about is? That I kill tubesock and blame you as my plan? Is that it? Yeah basically. It should be absolutely clear that you can't infer anything useful from that night kill. Especially not to call a single player mafia off the back of it. Either you are a terrible player and you don't know that or you can't admit to yourself that it was a stupid plan in the first place. I know which I would say is more likely. | ||
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On July 29 2019 23:03 Holyflare wrote: Please paraphrase every post in it from start to finish and the days they were posted. There are currently 90 posts you really want me to do that its gonna take me ages -J | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + 1 \Grack This is the QT for the hyda 2\ Jock Thanks grack hi bugs 3\ Jock probably gonna lurk at first 4\ Bugs FIrst thought we rolled scum but turns out we're green yay l be here for moral support and guidance and to occasionally shit on logical fallacies from other players If we end up agreeing independently on a scumread before giving each other our own reasons we can play good cop bad cop 5\ Jock Agrees 6\ Long bugs post on rayn and why he's mafia 7\ Jock - gonna make a spreadhseet - rayn is silly 8\ Basically a copy of the early list post i did that everyone hated with a couple of extra bits that weren't for the thread. 9\ Bugs another set of reads: FF - lean town. Maybe strongest read I have Eywa - lean town Tube - lean town Coag - lean town 10\ Bugs those mafia reads on us are hilarious -J | ||
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11\ I agree with buigs' reads apologize for crap posting early on 12\ Jock its going to need pointing out that rayn was always going to vote for us since before we even posted anything too 13\ BUgs use a different browser or incognito for the smurf 14\ Jock Used Edge but hate it 15\ Bugs tells me i should slow down my posting 16\ Bugs wants to let pandain catch up and post (this is07-24-2019 04:46 AM ET (US)) 17\ Bugs corercting spelling 18\ Me shitting on my own play a bit more. Vote would be better on MZ than rayn 19\ Bugs tells me i control the vote so whatever 20\ I go cold on MZ. Say its because he realized his reads were out of whack with each other. DIdn't like the way he defended my early post though 21\ Bugs isn't sure that him defending us is alignment indicative at all. 22\ I say Koshi convinced me to kill rayn 23\ Long post by bugs with a list: Tells me not to rationalize my vote 24-26 is mroe discussion of post vote posting and some coaching from bugs. You really want me to carry on hf I'm at work and this is time consuming -J | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + 27 Bugs wants to pressure slam and FF because they were voting with rayn - thinks one is mafia one is mason 28 I tell him to go get slam I'll have a look through FF's filter 29 Bugs - eywa and hf are ok for now. Knowing rayn's partner will clear stuff up probably 30 Me - Would make sense for TS to be rayn's partner. DIdn't attack us for voting rayn but attacked us in another weird way instead (the slam thing) 31 Bugs agrees - 32 - Bugs thinks vivax is town 33 Vivax dies and bugs lols 34 Bugs likes coag and slam - maybe FF 35 Bugs - Chezinu is bad too 36 I agree with that list. I'm not posting in thread cos I'm hammered. 37 Bugs PoE based on slam saying he's not mason Current scumreads FF Coag slam Chezinu 38 Bugs liked hf post about slam 39 - Bugs thinks FF scumclaimed 40 - Jock really wishes TS would claim mason 41 - Jock voting FF hoping people agree and pick it up 42 - Bugs facepalming at a Tubesock post. -J | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + /43 Jock - No-one biting on FF. I'll leave vote there for a few hours. /44 Bugs - Thinks koshi is scum. FF slam and chezinu also in the pile /45 Jock - Chez unreadable - Koshi is weird - will leave vote on FF unless people look like they want to vote koshi /46 Jock - Slam being aggro all of a sudden - weird /47 Bugs - Vote wherever would prefer slam 48-52 Is just random conversation 53/ Bugs - between FF, Slam, and Chezinu 54/ Bugs wants a go at FF 55/ I wanna prod the newbie and see what he says /56 lets swap targets 57/ Bugs - Why don't we kill koshi. 3 reasons - TMI, calling town stupid, calling rayn anti--town instead of scum. 58/ Jock if you think we can kill koshi we should -J | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + /59 Bugs thread is dead /60 Bugs Why is koshi invested in defending slam? 61/ Bugs - Slam self voting is weird and ballsy but difficult to tell alignment from 62/ Jock - Feel like slam is breadcruming 63/ Bugs - If slam is breadcrumbing mason he deserves to die 64/ Jock - I DON'T KNOW BUGS HE'S JUST WEIRD 65/ Jock - strategy on killing koshi 66/ Bugs- more of the same 67/ Jock - All these people are morons (there gets to be more of this kinda thing) 68/ Bugs - LMAO 69/70/ Jock - Really like hf's point about eversince and the rayn thing but he is straight up defending koshi 71-72 Bugs doesn't really get what hf is saying 73 Jock explains hf's eversince point 74 Jock Do we just lynch chez I dunno -J | ||
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This is the rest of it. + Show Spoiler + 75 Bugs would rather not lynch Chez - trusts me to do whatever 76 Jock says switching to chez 77 Bugs is pissed off by hf 78 Jock makes point about mafia busing chez invalidating some PoE 79 Bugs thinks day 3 will suck 80 Jock says sorry for lynching chez 81 Bugs says Koshi, FF, Slam are the lynches 82 Bugs notices we tend to swap our reads as EoD nears 83 Jock posts a reads list - Thinks branch might be mafia cos of that EoD 84 Bugs talks about Slam and Tube. 85 - Bugs says 'one less suspect' 86 - Jock combines jock/bugs' read lists into one to come up with ideas for day 3 87 - Bugs rages with fury and fire at hf, koshi and ff 88 - Jock notices that the only people to try and defend us from day 2 lynch were everyone that koshi says is mafia 89 - Bugs not confident that we can win - is leaving for a while to catch a plane. 90 - Jock says fuck everyone -J | ||
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On July 30 2019 00:04 Branch.AUT wrote: Why does Holyflare think all of this qt paraphrasing makes hydra town? All it is is sentiment towards players and expressing frustrations. If I was mafia and making it up someone would notice that. -J | ||
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On July 29 2019 18:19 NoSmurfHere wrote: I'm saying because this seems much more convincing to me than: I can't be the only one. -J Holyflare are you still townreading koshi for the same reason? If so do you have a better way of convincing me because i believe you more when you talk about koshi being scummy than when you talk about him being town. -J | ||
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On July 30 2019 02:25 Alakaslam wrote: So new townreads are Hydra May as well be blue, HF, maybe the smurf. I am thinking Eywa too. Null is Eversince, Koshi, FF, Meapak, Can’t remember anyone else and I am willing to reread and give thoughts, but I suspect people would see that as shitting up the thread rather than useful. Give thoughts! The thread is dead anyway. Read pandain he's a bit of a mystery at the moment. Eversince is whaaaaaaaaat she normally all over the thread. If I'd subbed in as town I'd be extra keen too. -J | ||
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On July 30 2019 03:15 Eywa- wrote: You guys post too much... Holy fuck. FecalFeast has to be the lynch today, I mean... His filter is terrible, just keeps pushing random reads off of the main wagons, but doesn't actually push them hard enough to push them through. Then he calls other people scum for pushing mislynches. Also, this feels a lot like PR hunting. WHERE DID THAT GUARANTEED COP CHECK GO? Oh... Y'all lynched it. FF is a good lynch. Why not koshi? -J | ||
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On July 30 2019 03:51 Eywa- wrote: I'll filter him, nothing jumped at me the first read through, but I mean, I skimmed a lot. Try and see if you can see him trying to push a lynch. The last game I played with town koshi he was aggressively trying to get people to vote with him, at least for some of the game. -J | ||
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On July 30 2019 05:13 Holyflare wrote: 5) Fecalfeast 6) Eywa 7) Pandain 8) Coagulation Replaced by Branch.AUT Day 2. 11) Koshi I'm narrowing you guys down. YES holyflare this is a good list. My money's on 5,8,11 We only have one mislynch, right? I need to try and work this game out before the end of the night anyway. -J | ||
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On July 30 2019 05:14 Branch.AUT wrote: I am going through low activity people at the moment. Don't have a good scumread but these are my thoughts. Im cautious about HF because of the weight he carries in thread. Fecalfeasts opinions seem to line up with mine a lot, but his filter is filled with garbage posts. Who are yours? Right now koshi Then FF and one more from you/slam (I think bugs thought slam was mafia before today)/pandain/eywa I'm starting to come around to hf a little more. I was very suspicious earlier. His latest post encourages me though. -J | ||
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He must have the memory of a goldfish -J | ||
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I don't have one particularly. I don't like the way he immediately suggested the tubesock night kill could mean we were mafia, that seems opportunistic, but he has made some good posts also. I'm not ruling him out. We have two main scumreads and a bunch of maybes and some townreads -J | ||
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On May 27 2019 18:58 Koshi wrote: Disfo. She needs to die. Come the fuck on. I will call you on Whatsapp after the goddamn game and explain it to you. I CBA to explain it now. For fucking sake. This is calix. No waves Shit conviction Shit reads Shit everything Kill her fast This is town koshi. Where has this koshi been? -J | ||
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On July 30 2019 09:38 Eywa- wrote: Soo... Anyone seeing this FF and MZ scum theater unfolding? No idea wtf you’ve been reading but MZ is one of the few people trying to figure out the game. Anyway I’ve lost most of my motivation to post & I am busy with work. I mostly agree with what MZ has said. I think the hard choice will be for scum #3 but I have been fairly confident on both Koshi and FF for a while now. FF’s own assessment of his play is hilarious. Half of his posts are just shade on others. His other half are composed of a lot of posts that just seek to figure out thread sentiment, are random filler, or defense posts. Basically no scumhunting whatsoever and his opinions make no sense when put up to any level of scrutiny. As for Koshi, he essentially had no opinions this game. He attacked rayn probably because he knew he had to, and it just happened to work well in his favour day 1 that rayn died. After rayn died Koshi has basically done nothing. I believe that mafia are sheeping/manipulating certain townies. Tube for sure was in mafia FF’s pocket, and I am reasonably sure that if slam is town he was being manipulated by Koshi due to how hard Koshi buddied him. I read slam more townish today but slam is a coin flip to me still. Of the rest of the players, HF has made enough sense today that I wouldn’t kill him. Eversince is often absent but has made sense. Ditto on Pandain. Comes down to Eywa and Branch which is a hard decision but I think it will resolve itself if we kill both Koshi and FF first because if we’re not all completely crazy and there isn’t a godlike scum among us then there is a huge amount of time to evaluate both players. If I were forced to pick right now I’d 100% kill branch, though. Anyway, I’m tired and will go to my hotel soon now that work for the day is wrapping up. If Koshi isn’t scum then gg because then we got rocked by scum really hard. -wherebugsgo | ||
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Koshi FF slam/eywa/branch figure yourselves out but right now I’d kill branch -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 30 2019 10:27 Fecalfeast wrote: How about this if everyone who wants me dead today can tell me their plan of action when I flip town I'll self vote and park it there til deadline, cool? Considering that you don’t know it’s mylo, even if you’re town it’s optimal to just kill you and end the game because you were playing for scum the whole time anyway. The only two options for town today are no-lynch or kill scum. If you don’t know that, or can’t even put the modicum of effort required to figure it out yourself, you’re scum or indistinguishable from scum. -wherebugsgo | ||
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If you’re hoping this dumbtell is gonna save you from death tomorrow you better try harder -wherebugsgo | ||
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I’ve committed a cardinal sin and reread something for only the 2nd or 3rd time this game but that one might have been worth it. Right at that time was when I had a post to eversince about needing time to understand why slam would martyr in that situation, in the way he did, as well as getting cold feet on FF purely on tone-basis (and secretly, because we were getting 0 traction on FF) As an alternative to slam/FF I proposed Koshi. Right around that time branch starts flinging poop at us. Hmmm.... -wherebugsgo | ||
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We're agreed. I had that team anyway and WBG has come back and agreed with it and MZ's cases have been very good today. FF still trying to throw doubt on the QT stuff nice lol. -J | ||
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10 players left Us Slam Eywa ES MZ HF Koshi FF Branch Pandain so its 7v3 if we mislynch and there's 2 mafia kills its 4v3 still -J | ||
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On July 30 2019 18:21 Branch.AUT wrote: That didn't take long to find. Does this still affect your read on me? It seems to me that this is the source of your cognitive bias against me. Please reevalute with this in mind. I don't think it looks like cognitive bias. People were generally willing to townread you when you first subbed in to the thread, but the way you have posted has led to you being one of the main scum candidates. You aren't doing town things right now, your end of day was panicky like you wanted to look like you were voting in the 'right' place and you took ages to update how you were thinking about the game when things changed, as if you were waiting for town opinion to shift before you would shift your own opinion. You pushed us hard when you first came in to the thread and that's why people were null-townish on you. Who are you going to push now? How are you going to figure the game out? It looks like you're just coasting to the next lynch but its urgent that town figures the game out quickly and doesn't mislynch any more. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On July 30 2019 10:42 Fecalfeast wrote: Also was considering making a QT and showing how easily I could fake 10 QT posts because I have like 100 qts with everyone's qt usernames and shit to reference but I am far too lazy On July 30 2019 10:45 Fecalfeast wrote: I will save my thoughts on that for post-game FF complaining (or insinuating that he had complaints at least) about the QT thing is pretty much a scum claim, no? -J | ||
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Sorry if I yell at anyone today. I will yell at you if you don't vote for koshi or FF though. -J | ||
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On July 30 2019 15:48 Eversince wrote: Oops you are right!! How embarrassing! I just counted up base names but that excluded both Branch and myself xD! How did I do this for days.. I should sleep more. I did the same thing yesterday (IRL time) in #1506. Sorry FF lol I’m the idiot on that one. Par for the course I think On July 30 2019 15:03 Alakaslam wrote: Man alive bugs I owe you an apology. You’ve been on fire this game and I suspected you for it, slung shit at you for it, and got petulant for it. I must seem like the fatass playing Warcraft at home to you. Man alive but I do feel marginalized in here when I finally find something. I gotta learn communication skills. I also realized not everything is implicit and punctuation is important in English, period. It suddenly dawned on me with this weird idea: It is hard being a man, child. It is hard being a man child One is a warning the other is a pathetic statement. I gotta de-lazy myself with punctuation. Don’t apologize yet, no idea if I’m right since we haven’t seen a flip. No worries on anything though, I’m enjoying the game cause I can do less than half the work and converse with my buddy Jock here Game would make too much sense if all 3 of Koshi, FF, and branch are scum and that makes me paranoid lol. At least we don’t lose if we lynch one and they’re a townie (unlike my dumbass thought yesterday after my flight, that we’re in mylo) -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 30 2019 18:52 Holyflare wrote: Well: A) I didn't think he was town B) Even if he was I'd pretend to be parity and get shot letting our actual parity get off a check C) If I didn't get shot I'd know mafia was full of baddies D) If I didn't get shot and someone else that wasn't a lead vet got shot after I basically claimed parity then I would of rampaged on bugs/koshi Don’t ever try this again. Seriously, if you’re town this plan is selfish as fuck and awful to boot. From the poor townie PC perspective they have no idea whether you’re mafia trying to bait a claim or whether you’re a townie fake claiming. Ordinarily you could apply the logic that no scum would ever trade 1 for 1 in that situation, but it isn’t true here because: 1. A veteran scum player trading 1 for 1 for the real parity cop is actually a solid play there. The PC, if they believe you are scum, has a strong chance of counterclaiming before day 3 which allows scum to shoot on n2, because in the moment they will think you are the best lynch. This is especially true for someone like me where I will be wondering why the fuck you hijacked a lynch of Koshi to kill an afk vanilla townie. 2. You should have already known mafia were full of baddies when they fucked up the mason hunt on n1. Anyone who was reading the game should have known that tube was rayn’s partner essentially within minutes of his flip by reading the vote count & who sheeped rayn and said they’d tunnel us forever for no reason at all (hint: TUBE) 3. Your last statement proves that scum kills (except when shooting confirmed townies) don’t really matter all that much. I think the Vivax kill was bad because there was a confirmed town after day 1. Otherwise, any kill would have been fine, because people read all sorts of weird shit into scum kills, as proven by the fact that people tried to read into the tube shot anything other than “oh, they figured out tube is the mason, finally” If you’re town I seriously implore you to stop trying to pull plays like this. They don’t win games, and they make it harder for your teammates. Maybe they sound fun to you but it is decidedly not fun in the moment to try and figure out what the fuck you are doing when it causes so much chaos. This is precious time lost trying to piece things together as proven by the number of times you are being asked to explain yourself. As scum you are an experienced enough player to do it and use it to your advantage even if you haven’t been brave enough to try it till now. -wherebugsgo | ||
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Like really I don’t know if anyone else actually thinks that at this point and you literally never explain your read. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 30 2019 23:14 Eywa- wrote: I mean, in a game that's this hard to read and this tight, I think it's important to not give passes for anything. Like, we're all pretty much scum reading Branch due to his terrible entrance, but if that was day 1, I bet you all would have forgotten about it. He can't play the card of "Well, everything has been kosher since then". That’s not why I’m scumreading branch. I’m scumreading branch because he has had a long time to make sense and still doesn’t. All of his pushes are just reasons pulled from thin air and his logic makes no sense (+ he’s ultra-defensive of his pushes right up until he’s not). It’s like he’s making up reads. I actually gave him a pass all of yesterday because he was a replacement. As for why I don’t scumread MZ, I never saw his entrance on day 1 as bad and I still don’t see anything wrong with his posts. In particular I have no idea how you can think branch and MZ are scum together unless MZ is next-level bussing because MZ was basically the only player who straight up called out branch on his bs yesterday. He tore apart his logic, in a situation where he could have just sat back and watched Chezinu get lynched. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 27 2019 22:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: This is some terrible reasoning here dude. You brought up koshi looking bad independent from the hydra and repeated it a couple of times. Eversince voted koshi and then the hydra did. The hydra then expanded on the koshi vote, which is a read you agree with, and now you're not going to vote Koshi because you've convinced yourself the hydra is scum. If that's the case then why keep ragging on koshi? If you think the hydra is falsely accusing Koshi then why keep shading him? Unless you've somehow developed a scenario where the hydra is busing koshi, which doesn't make much sense unless you think slam is also scum and the scum team has decided to trade slam for koshi. There is a disconnect here: either you think the hydra is scum which makes koshi town, and yet you continue to shade koshi Or you think the hydra is scum, busing scum koshi to save scum slam? Either way this is terrible fucking logic. Actually I'd like anyone who is scum reading the Hydra because of this koshi push who also thinks koshi is scum to read this because the logic makes literally zero sense. -Jock | ||
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Read MZ’s posts for once and it’ll be obvious to you. Not doing your legwork for you, I’ve already read the game On July 30 2019 23:38 Branch.AUT wrote: Please take a step back and consider my point on Eywa. In an atmosphere where the game gets easier if people contribute, hiding behind one liners is bad play. If I'm wrong, tell me why and I might reconsider. Otherwise vote Eywa with me to make them play the game or get lynched. If in the off-chance you’re still misguided town here: Eywa is not the best lynch. Period. Posting one liners is not a scum tell; townies do this all the time. Even if that were the case, if you want to kill people for one liners, by that same logic why aren’t you voting or suspecting FF? Lastly I don’t understand why you would be voting to “make people play” at this stage of the game rather than killing the people most likely to be scum. According to you earlier, Koshi is suspicious but now that he’s on the chopping block you’re urging us to consider someone else entirely. To top it all off, you completely dropped your attack on us when it was clear no one was biting. Strange. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 31 2019 00:10 Branch.AUT wrote: FF has been scum read so many times that piling more reads onto him serves no purpose. Neither does sitting here doing nothing. Pushing the next weakest read for information is the most useful thing to do here. You have been fixated on Koshi for a very long time now, and never tire to mention me calling him suspicious. Enlighten me, what is it that makes you tunnel him so hard? Try reading my posts I actually don’t really disagree with you that getting more information here is useful, as long as your vote contributes to killing scum at the end of the day. However I really have nothing new to say on Koshi nor FF. If you can find new things on Eywa or other players, then be my guest. I’m open to convincing, just so far you haven’t been. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 31 2019 03:07 Eversince wrote: @ Jock Between Koshi and FF. I'm still deciding. Koshi is my easy choice. I could vote for FF too though. His play today when I tried to interact with him especially made me really go from waffle to a 'why the hell would town play this way?' So bleh, took me long enough, he's got a good chance of flipping mafia to imo. If you vote on FF it gives koshi the choice between himself and FF to die. -J | ||
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This Eywa push is garbage. Pandain you around? Care to tell the class what you think of the vote situation? Same question for Meapak. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 31 2019 03:13 Pandain wrote: And by don't care I mean that's why I'm not really engaged in this discussion on someone I don't think is scum Can you actually play the game and talk it out with me instead of being inactive all the time? I don’t recall it being this difficult to get thoughts out of you the last couple games and I’m having a hard time understanding whether that is because you are short on time, scum, or both. Like this statement is a bit vague. Do you mean you don’t think FF is scum? If not, who is your 3 person scum team? -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 31 2019 03:13 Branch.AUT wrote: I am asking you to reconsider your vote and go for Eywa, who has posted nothing but offhand accusations and useless comments. If the lynch is between FF and Koshi, theres nothing to be learned. Both have posted too much, and posted too much nonsense. Eywa postet nothing of substance. There is a huge contrast between either Koshi/FF and Eywa. Making the choice more meaningful for everyone. Actually we learn a ton if the lynch is between Koshi and FF. They have tons of interactions with other players and FF in particular (IIRC) is a defender of Koshi. Making people pick between those two is way better than having them pick between either of them and Eywa, especially when the only people who seem to agree on Eywa are the ones voting him Presumably they either think the other is town or scum bussing here, and given that almost no one outside you 3 thinks Eywa is scum, it’s much better to have people split between the two players that are actually being called scum. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 31 2019 03:16 Fecalfeast wrote: I mean... I want to self vote to save koshi but that's like literally playing against my wincon since I can only be 100% on myself. I'm at work and we're taking an early break See look at this I think only HF has bothered to defend Koshi this hard -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 31 2019 03:21 Branch.AUT wrote: Making FF a lynch target basically lets Mafia pick whoever they want. Its rather unlikely that we have 3 scum up for lynch. Therefore I wouldn't push FF In this situation. Especially considering that their volume of post and current standing in the thread are quite similar. Do you know what I mean? I’m telling you that we 100% will not lynch Eywa today, not with TWO SCUM CANDIDATES VOTING HIM. If you vote anyone other than FF or Koshi today I will assume you are scum. Between me and Jock you have more hope of convincing me that you are town and right now you’re not doing a very good job at that. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 31 2019 03:26 Branch.AUT wrote: I don't need to convince YOU of anything because YOU don't vote Touché btw care to explain how scum can “choose who they want” between Koshi and FF without outing themselves in the process? We have like an hour or two left (?? I don’t know what the deadline is in this time zone, haven’t checked) and the only person who hasn’t voted is Eversince. She is not going to vote Eywa, AFAICT. That puts Koshi @ 4 with tiebreaker advantage and for scum to kill someone else they would all need to vote someone else (technically it would look like two players switching) because there is only a net +2 possible ATM, and that’s necessary to pick someone over Koshi. I also don’t understand why the same argument you are using about scum picking the lynch doesn’t apply to Eywa va Koshi or any two players. FF and Koshi do not look the same no matter how much you keep saying that, anyway. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 31 2019 03:31 Fecalfeast wrote: Can the people on me at least mention what they'll do when i flip town. Please? Someone determined that it's not mylo right Why do you keep asking this instead of doing something actually useful? You’ve been asking for thread sentiment the whole game (like how you asked how people are reading branch) instead of actually forming your own read or opinions and it’s scummy af It’s also always somehow really meek when at least some of your pushback when the game was less clear, especially when pushing back against people who were clearly going to die (like rayn) had a much different tone -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 31 2019 03:44 Fecalfeast wrote: Can someone link me to this alleged paraphrasing of 90 qt posts? I'm not sure how one could edit that many posts sufficiently enough to simultaneously be clearing but not against any rules Why would you be against this if you were town? Its spread over a few posts here: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/549650-cupids-arrow-mafia?page=67#1329 -J | ||
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I think you’re just scum who is annoyed. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 31 2019 04:22 Holyflare wrote: There's been a fuck tonne of words the past few pages but no compelling sentences on why we should lynch anyone's favourite target over anyone else. Why? That’s literally been the theme of this game. I’m tired of explaining why we want to kill Koshi. You’re not reading so I see no reason why we need to explain things again. You weren’t reading when I was telling you why I think Koshi was a better kill than Chezinu so you getting worked up now is starting to rub me the wrong way On July 31 2019 03:40 Branch.AUT wrote: Holyflare has been doing the same exact thing with me. You never once called him scum. How come? If you meant this, branch, then I think you aren’t reading properly. I indeed have thought HF was scum at various points in this game and honestly even now his behavior is strange enough that he might be scum here. However he simply is not the best lynch. There are enough reasons to call him town and not enough to call FF/Koshi town that it makes no sense to discuss him now, 1 hour before lynch, when we are not going to lynch him. It bothers me that we have 30 minutes to go to deadline and you are trying to distract from the lynch at hand. Why is it important to discuss, at this very moment, my opinion on HF? Are we killing HF? No? Then why?? And this is coming from someone who called us out on supposed whataboutism earlier in the game. You must be scum here. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 31 2019 04:33 Holyflare wrote: I mean you're mistaken if you think I'm not seeing the case for Koshi. I'm pretty certain I said I don't care which of the two die and I'd vote for either. I'm just seeing a distinct lack of push in any direction other than branch onto shitty eywa lynch which is strange considering how close the lynches are. Not really getting worked up about it so go bark up another tree, my friend. FF is certainly scum, literally the only person who was annoyed by us being townread on the basis of being able to paraphrase QT posts and it lining up with our in-thread opinions. Koshi is certainly also scum. I personally don’t give two shits who dies between the two of them. -wherebugsgo | ||
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They both deserve to die. We get slightly more information from doing it this way. -J | ||
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Ask Jock why he prefers it, I just told him idc. Remember I’m not the one voting in this game -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 31 2019 04:42 Branch.AUT wrote: You've called me scum at every point in this game, no matter what I did, so I no longer care about your opinion. Green flip, best defense. If the Koshi lynch was as certain as you want it to be, we wouldn't be havin this conversation. Your reasons for voting Koshi are weak as garbage. And the only reason Koshi has so many Votes, is because your Hydra is supposedly confirmed town. Yeah I’m confirmed town every game. Lynching me is nearly impossible. Get used to it. -wherebugsgo | ||
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Actually it seems to be better that people were thinking that it’s lylo -wherebugsgo | ||
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So someone needs to hammer or just leave it be. Rofl @ branch -wherebugsgo | ||
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Looks like FF is dead eh You should be happy to be out of the game FF, I know I would be -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 31 2019 04:55 Holyflare wrote: THE ONLY REASON YOU THINK THE HYDRA IS TOWN IS BECAUSE YOU ARBITRARILY CONFIRMED ME AS TOWN LOL. LOL -wherebugsgo | ||
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2 more minutes to find out how scrubby we are -wherebugsgo | ||
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gg afk -wherebugsgo | ||
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Sorry FF gg dude -J | ||
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Have all the games you’ve been in recently (like last.1 year) been like this one? Just curious to know if you feel there’s a significant difference in playstyles. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 31 2019 11:42 Alakaslam wrote: So yes, huge difference. I was actually around for you long time ago. Like 2011 stuff, I wasn’t even Alakaslam yet but I just obsed game’s. I used to be way more of a raging shitter and damn I am regretful for all of the things I said back then. I think I’m chiller and talk way more now but the games are actually more painful IMO -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 31 2019 20:23 Pandain wrote: I remember during the last mafia game I re-read one of your past games from like pre-2013. You were such a different person You should read my last two (?) games before my hiatus. I raged hard LOL. I think one was Witchcraft Mafia. Scum had 3 KP on N1 if they lynched a townie, and I tunneled two scum d1. No idea how I convinced people when I posted so abrasively all the time. I miss the days when Blazinghand and I would troll that we’re the same person. I still remember when he was new and played his first couple games -wherebugsgo | ||
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I actually don’t care who wins, scum deserve this game IMO -wherebugsgo | ||
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On August 01 2019 05:21 Pandain wrote: Vote Koshi for: 1. Weird, illogical, super town-bus of Slam which he never explained 2. Continually blatantly misconstruing, misrepresenting, outright lying 3. Shitty reasons for voting rayn 4. Scumslip where he talked about HF being mafia because he will survive n3 double night kills. Not stated as a "if this happens", stated as a "yeah HF is mafia because he survived the double night kill". huge scum slip, obvious scum changed it here. slam kill is weird but honestly he was the towniest one here. why hydra not shot though? We should have been shot so the only reason i can think of is who we were scumreading at the end of day 2. Mafia must think that's worth more to them than a confirmed townie is to town. Slam said recently that the scum team were the koshi voters. The one read they agreed on was branch i think. What do you think of branch? I think he's the smartest lynch here. I don't know what bugs thinks about it though. He's not going to be here all the time during the rest of the game so I'm just going to give my opinions for the remainder and bugs can join me when he has time away from work. -J | ||
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-wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 31 2019 05:12 Eywa- wrote: Seems like I'm playing with a bunch of idiots. How is that even acceptable as town FF? Not because its arrogant, but because it looks like eywa has found a fake 'role' (ie arrogant townie that thinks everyone is shit) and is playing up to it. This just doesn't seem real to me. -J | ||
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Just know that if you're mafia and i do this and you don't die bugs will never speak to me again. I struggle with eywa+mz both being mafia. I guess its not out of the question. -J | ||
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On August 01 2019 19:19 Branch.AUT wrote: Thats a possibility, but does that not fit their entire play? Care to comment on my assessment of MZ/Pandain/ES, Jock? MZ and pandain are both the same in this game. There's posts they have made that are scummy, but also some posts that seem good. Both have just enough activity not to be suspicious (not the case with eversince). I didn't actually think MZ's case on you was full of holes. That doesn't make him more or less likely to be town though imo. I think he has looked like he's hiding in plain sight the whole time. The case he made on you was contributing new stuff to the thread. The problem I have with it isn't that it was full of holes, but that you were an easy target. I'm going to filter MZ now, then ES for more detailed analysis. -J | ||
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On August 01 2019 07:58 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: are you fucking serious? koshi fucking escaped lynch twice in row like how are we in lylo with him alive FF flipping town is gonna make me have to rethink some stuff now. Part of me is tempted just to stick it out and roll with koshi again but the fact that I'm still alive and I am clearly missing a member of the scum team means I'm gonna need to do some serious rereading. Fuck man, I thought we had this shit on lock. On August 01 2019 10:29 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Man I don't fucking know, Branch easily looks the worst from the FF lynch but I don't wanna just let koshi off the hook. I'm gonna go ahead and accept the omgus accusations and say eywa is the 3rd scum bc of the FF lynch as well. I'll post more tomorrow morning, I finally have a night flight so I should be around for some of irl day tomorrow. The martyring and giving up from so many players just makes things so unfun to play. MZ Wants to rethink the game but then immediately goes for the people he was already scumreading and thinks of reasons to stick with them. -J | ||
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I think we reached the 3rd degree. + Show Spoiler + -J | ||
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On August 01 2019 20:09 Koshi wrote: Fact is this. We need to FORCE everybody to vote the same. And we need to pile 3 votes on somebody fast. We need 7 votes on the same person. 6 is fine as well. My PoE says eversince if we have to choose one. Eywa and MZ both seem mafia but I don't like them being mafia together. -J | ||
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Let me filter him first? Anything in particular i should pay attention to? I like the idea that the mafia is protecting us. That would be something that the following people have in common: Eywa MZ Koshi Pandain (to a lesser degree) -J | ||
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Yeah fuck it I'm completely changing our reads. Bugs is off the hook if koshi is mafia because he's afk and wanted to kill him twice already. Branch is out, koshi is out, mafia is between the other 4. ES is a great vote. She just hasn't been playing like herself: no posts that say "I'm here now let's talk". She seems kinda nervy and less relaxed than usual. This: On July 27 2019 17:29 Eversince wrote: EBWOP Before people start crying 'BURN THE WITCH!!' There wasn't anything for me to comment on. Your recap reasoning post (Which I'd already gave my opinion for), Tube tunnels (k, I tunneled the shit out of Pandain but I'm not going to fight a null[tube] and you [hydra] to try to convince otherwise. Is so fucking defensive. You gotta be extra worried about what people are thinking of your alignment to be posting pre-emptive defense posts like this. -J | ||
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##vote Eversince -J | ||
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On August 01 2019 20:41 Branch.AUT wrote: Voting Everysince Go on then you don't have to ask in the QT if you're going to bus ES just go for it! -J | ||
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On August 01 2019 20:51 Branch.AUT wrote: I'm hesitant to call out three people in connection. It is no how I approach this game. I'll try anyway because youve asked me too My strongest scumreads are MZ/Pandain. Both sheeped Slam during lynches, except when Slam changed his vote close to deadline. Both post constructive just enough to not be supiciously inactive, but way too little to actually catch mafia. Eywa/ES im less sure of, Eywa because HF went all out defending them on meta reason. ES mostly posts prior to deadline and willingly gives her vote to anyone interacting, except when I pushed to lynch Eywa. Could see ES+Eywa together mafia. I consider any combination of these four possible. Its worth noting that HF's defense of eywa wasn't a townread. His point about eywa's meta is true, but we'ev never seen eywa play as mafia here so its not a townread - he's just saying that you can't scumread eywa based on tone. I'll be able to give you a proper read on eywa by the end of today. -J | ||
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Probably not imo -J | ||
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On August 02 2019 02:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Oh here comes the counter push from Koshi and Eywa. Right on cue when I push Branch. You're getting played Jock. If koshi and branch were mafia why didn't they kill us last night? They leave alive the confirmed town that's been scumreading them and pushing them when they have 2 kills?? If eywa and branch were mafia together why was branch voting for, and pushing, eywa for pretty much the whole of yesterday? None of that makes any sense at all. It makes much more sense if you left us alive because you wanted us to push koshi and branch today. -J | ||
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On August 02 2019 03:01 Koshi wrote: This feels like a fucking trap though. Branch and Hydra. Your fucking call. You trust this guy? It might be a smart play and a bus of course. I just cant understand why mafia MZ is pissing le off so much. Like only townies would piss me off this much. I don't trust eywa at all but I'm alright voting for MZ based off the last couple of pages alone. -J | ||
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On August 02 2019 03:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: The same is true for me. If you or I show up dead today Branch/Koshi are the auto today. What doesn't make sense is the eversince push from a town PoV, quickly followed up with the shift onto me once I point out how bad it is and refocus things on Branch. People reaching for scum reads on eversince reeks of scum trying not to vote for their basically outed teammates. No there's perfectly good town reasons for both the vote on ES and the vote on you. -J | ||
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0.01% chance the scum team is koshi, branch, eywa. -J | ||
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I actually have nothing more useful to contribute, it was entertaining reading the last few pages though. -wherebugsgo | ||
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Eywa Eversince Pandain But this is off about 30 seconds of thinking and purely observing what’s happening right now -wherebugsgo | ||
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On August 02 2019 04:30 Eywa- wrote: Seriously, I have no idea how you guys are scum reading me.  Feel free to do something actually useful for once. But hey, I don’t have a vote power, I’m just an annoying voice + Show Spoiler + Not the first time I’ve played such a role: see Game of Thrones Mafia for the lulz -wherebugsgo | ||
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On August 02 2019 07:43 Eywa- wrote: Eh... I mean, you should be trying to be useful. Isn't that why you're here. Tell me. As scum, why do I kill two players who are town reading me? I’ll do whatever I want. I like that rather than doing something useful you deflect a question back at me. Rather defensive all of a sudden, aren’t we? What happened to your 100% certainty on others being scum? Who’s the scum team here? -wherebugsgo | ||
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So, names without reasons, no matter how simple, are useless. You’re scum, aren’t you? -wherebugsgo | ||
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On July 30 2019 23:17 Eywa- wrote: Slam, HF and nosmurfhere are always town, so we should be able to figure this out, we just need 2 more solid reads. This was some hard projection right here No idea why you eliminated slam & HF here when I hadn’t done that myself and I don’t think any townie would eliminate names like this. Also you’ve been remarkably steady on MZ and I don’t ever see townies, even the biggest asshole townies, stay on one path for so long when repeatedly proven dead wrong. You didn’t reevaluate after a flip even once. Scum. One down -wherebugsgo | ||
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On August 02 2019 15:10 Eversince wrote: 1/6 RNG says 2. Lynch Eywa with fire!! But thats trash idea so nevermind Why was the m!ES on you guys radar btw Bugs? I thought the entire push onto me was super lazy ..It was me that made the push. Koshi and branch look townier today than ever before. Mafia is 3/4 of everyone else. Ask yourself how much people looked like they really wanted to lynch you, compared to how many people voted for you. Look at who refused to put their vote on you. The push gave us information regardless of whether or not you are mafia. -J | ||
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On August 02 2019 15:24 Eversince wrote: Of course the mafia tries to pull weight to end game today.. Unless you're assuming they wouldn't bus now? MZ is bus in which Branch may/may not funnel over if a town option pulls in (assuming m!MZ) is bus and they are trying to build town cred? I guess if you assume MZ/Eywa/ES team then ok? At the moment I think MZ is mafia +2 of you, eywa, pandain. Like you said, busing is a factor we have to think about, but MZ voting off wagon giving mafia extra hiding places and refusing to work with town is a bad sign. That's why he's the best vote, just park your vote on MZ and we have a very good chance of hitting red. I wish pandain would come back to the thread, the game's getting interesting. -J | ||
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Or Meapak Eversince Pandain ? ... ???!!!??? -wherebugsgo | ||
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Pandain and Eywa are probably not together unless Pandain was purposely throwing us off by using wrong pronouns (lol this is probably not a good reason but I thought it was funny) The thing that is throwing me for a loop right now is that Pandain has hard afked this game, especially now. For that alone he deserves to die as he actually won the game for town last time I saw him play during the last cycle of the game (though there was only 1 scum to kill) His play here on activity alone is very different. Anyway. I have nothing useful to contribute and will probably be afk till deadline because I have work tomorrow (1 am here now) -wherebugsgo | ||
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ES holding votes for a longass time is rubbing me the wrong way too. I think if MZ got jumped on like he did yesterday it’s likely that at least one scum would hold their vote to see if they can push an alternate Branch as much as his posts are dumb looks townier. Arguing up to EOD...? Is he really gonna put that effort in as a new scum player? -wherebugsgo | ||
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Eversince is still a great lynch for all the same reasons as yesterday. MZ said that push was bullshit. MZ mafia. -J | ||
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On August 03 2019 05:28 Eywa- wrote: Nice, I mean, at least 1 of my early reads were good. >_< + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://media.giphy.com/media/3oFzmiMu3v4LIXpJBK/giphy.gif) -J | ||
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On August 03 2019 05:32 Koshi wrote: Leave your reads. I just left mine, ES and pandain. I wanna go through MZ filter though so that could change before end of night. -J | ||
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On August 03 2019 05:32 Koshi wrote: Well if you guys agree on Pandain. We will do Pandain. Wait. Me you and bugs all agree on Eversince, you didn't seem to agree on pandain. Lynch eversince. -J | ||
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New Zealand613 Posts
Lets figure this out before we die. -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
I’d kill Eversince too. But there is a good chance that mafia bussed today. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 25 2019 01:54 NoSmurfHere wrote: Man I can’t believe I’m actually saying this but Koshi has been making a lot of sense in the past page or so. The best two choices we have for lynch today are rayn and MZ. Personally I’m not accepting any others, as I honestly don’t have much reason to suspect anyone else yet and I don’t really have that many town reads either. I prefer killing rayn over MZ: I find MZ scummy but I waffle on him because last game he did similar things, where he didn’t provide many reads or vote at all until very late, and was wishy washy throughout. Also, he seems to defend me & jock based on believing the reasoning for voting us is bad and partly rayn drunk posting but then tries to get tube to explain why we’re scum. If MZ is actually town and legitimately believes we’re town then I could see him potentially trying to just shore up his read here but it comes off as extremely passive & non-committal. Jock I think felt more confident on MZ being scum than I did but now is backtracking (?) a bit. I’ll let him comment with his own thoughts if he wants to. I’m off to bed and won’t be back for another 9-12 hours or so. -wherebugsgo We started with this and then lynched several townies in a row. I’m bad. both of us caught on MZ day 1 and I got distracted by townies being dumb and playing contrary to their wincon as happens every game. Oh well. Credit to Jock for pursuing that today when I haven’t had the time nor desire to reread at all and rereading is really critical here. MZ townread Koshi and Tube: On July 26 2019 11:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Ok I don't like this post from slam at all. The whole part about "making associates later" reeks like TMI and this post is basically slam's way of distancing himself from the lynch so that he's on the right side of the vote that he knows will flip town. Aside from that, he literally admits his reasons for voting the hydra are terrible but he's saving rayn, I view this as scummy since it's hard for me to believe someone organically comes up with a townread so strong on D1 that they're willing to vote for someone else they don't think is scum in order to save them. Alright so I'm still leaning scum on FF, I think that the hydra makes a decent point here I think the TMI argument on slam is actually very strong, and I have some meta reasons as well that I can go over if anyone cares to but I'm really interested as to where you're getting this townread from, could you elaborate more on that? I disagree with the hydra scum read but coag is also a soft townread for me. Was really hoping from more than this from you vivax, picking lurkers as your suspects is weaksauce. Koshi and Tube are definitely my strongest townreads. I think what I've highlighted red here sums up parts of my meta read on slam. Based on my memory, slam is absolutely not playing his usual self and he is aware of it and has tried to emulate that at times but it feels artificial. He is much too serious and, in his own words, careful compared to what town slam does. Ok you and Tube agreeing on this is enough to give me pause but I really would like to know what you think of some of the points I've brought up earlier in this post. I'm not going to just sheep either of you without some decent reasoning behind your thought process. Alright I'm caught up and this is where I'm at. I think the TMI evidence, along with the meta/gut read I've got on slam is the strongest I've got right now. Going to go ahead and vote for him. FF is probably my second strongest read with a mix of Chez/Pandain/the dude who replaced in to round things out. I think it’s really rare that scum will hard townread a partner early in the game, usually they just townread an actual townie because it’s an easy read to fake. Scumreads they often piggyback unless they’re really bold and active and MZ is not a scum leader, he hates playing scum (although I think his scum play has improved!) So we can probably safely eliminate Koshi as a possibility here. If MZ did indeed hard townread a scum partner on d1 and then hard pushed him later in the game (and complained about him not dying) then I will swallow my hat, that’s some seriously skilled scum play. On July 26 2019 22:26 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: The last six hours of Koshi have taken him off my strongest town read list. The sellout defense of slam is not a good look. In my opinion nobody has yet really addressed the TMI piece of the slam case well. And I can't shake my gut meta read either. I'm reasonably certain HF is town at this point which makes me less confident vivax was killed because of his reads and more likely scum were hunting the other mason. Pandain is still on my scum list but that's just based off of activity and meta rather than vivax. The people trying to get the Hydra killed are really off the mark here. If anything the Hydra is one of the few people most actively scumhunting. Tube I understand you're kinda playing the devil's advocate this game but at this point I think your tunnel of the hydra is unproductive. Nice distancing there On August 02 2019 00:46 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: But Hydra, Eversince, and Pandain, I need you guys to read this over and seriously think about the lynches you are pushing. Look at Branch. This dude is literally looking for the most opportune lynch to park his vote on and ride out the day. I honestly can't say I've read eversince that closely but I will not be on the same wagon as Branch at lylo. Very convenient list of 3 names. I do really think scum’s plan was to win it yesterday by having us all kill branch. It’s kinda proven by what MZ was posting. It also lines up with how damn long both ES and Pandain both 1.) waited to do anything at all (Pandain only mysteriously showed up when I called him out for being a lurking asshole) and 2.) voted. Just kill Pandain and eversince. GG. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
If we’re not alive tomorrow then this needs to be priority #1 to flesh out. Why would you ever say only one of Pandain/MZ is scum? Next, you’ve got to explain why, if Koshi is scum here, would MZ hard bus him on d2 when Koshi had a real good chance of dying. He was runner up to Chezinu and it wasn’t clear that Chezinu would even die at various points when MZ a was pushing Koshi. MZ also hard town-read Koshi early day 1 and it’s a read he flipped on thread sentiment (specifically, Koshi looking worse after rayn died & not doing anything & us trying to kill Koshi) -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 03 2019 11:30 Eversince wrote: I never said Pandain was 100% town if MZ was mafia.. I said I think there was one mafia between Pandain/MZ. Assuming I think Koshi/Branch is scum I can't think both are mafia yeah?? You make a decent points but I can see a world where mafia just bus m!Koshi early on (D2). He was in trouble D2 so why not bus him when it looks like he can be lynch? Pandain could make sense here, though I thought Slam distancing from Koshi was off for the same reason you said here about MZ/Pand.. I decided then it had to be 1 town/ 1 mafia and Koshi made more sense as mafia.. Same logic applies here :p. What are your real reasons for scum reading me? I've reread and it's mostly 'ES is super low active' & 'ES isn't herself'. I already explain how activety is bogus reason to scum read me several times. Check out Simple game of mafia if you want proof of my statement -.-.. I was super low activity, didn't spend a ton of time explaining reads, as town that game too. If you guys won't explain a reasonable cause for wanting to lynch me outside this I'm just going to have giggle fits when the game ends when I die !You write a lot but really say nothing. You think one mafia between Pandain/MZ but this is not thinking Pandain is town now? Do you think Pandain is town or not? Very simple question. Secondly, slam vs Koshi doesn’t matter at all given that between the two a scum has not flipped. No idea how you can make effective associations between players when one flips town or even associate the two pairs here when only MZ has flipped scum. There is no “distancing” when slam was town and Koshi is unflipped. My reason for scumreading you independent of POE is that 1. instead of helping to figure out the game you throw out a town of maybes and possibilities, basically only when forced to, 2. you spend most of the day afk with your vote uncommitted and then 3. never follow up on promises (what happened to those rereads?) and now 4. you spend most of your effort pointing me to past games to defend yourself instead of doing anything useful. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Literally the only two players MZ pushed were Koshi and Branch. Conveniently, the same players you and Pandain were pushing. Now why the fuck would scum MZ bus BOTH HIS TEAMMATES in order to draw the game out when he hates playing scum and instead could just get a flawless victory? Did you really think that after the NK our lynch would be MZ? It’s the first thing that has gone against the scum team this game, I highly doubt they were expecting that. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 03 2019 11:49 Eversince wrote: I'm obvious bad at explaining here.. How is me thinking 1 mafia between Koshi/Slam (prior flip), and me thinking 1 mafia between MZ/Pand any different? I gave up pressure on Slam (not that I ever pushed him real hard in the first place), I wasn't even considering between the two but given I think BOTH Koshi/ Branch are scum I LITERALLY CAN NOT think both are scum there. If the were that makes 4 mafia and game would already be over. You made sense on why you think Koshi/ Branch are less likely to be mafia so I say your logic is good.. I'll re-eval, but my point is it's not unheard of that mafia just busses m!Koshi (who is looking like lynch D2 here). Then none of these guys are driving factors unless you count MZ FF case. At any rate I've already said I've waffled on Pandain most of the game to begin with anyway. So just to save you time going to look for it, he's still nullish for me but I liked him a little better for trying to deflecting off of Chezinu with me. But that's possible bias, as I tend to not try to read to much into Pandain anymore (I think he's scum every game). It could be m!Pand knowing Chezinu is town and trying to make himself look better. *shrugs* I already said I'd filter later but haven't done so because I have shit to do .So you think mafia MZ bussed both his teammates, Koshi and Branch, on the day when mafia could have easily won by mislynching once. Not only that, but also: 1. Koshi was vote #3 2. Branch hammered at vote #4 3. Koshi and Branch were not united in pushing a secondary lynch So mafia premeditated this mega bus? What an amazing play. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 03 2019 13:04 Eversince wrote: Hmm, actually I don't get it.. Why wasn't I just lynched today? MZ defend, but Koshi/ Branch both jump on my lynch. Mafia could of just lynch me today for easy win. It's not like I have any influence or am around to really defend myself 90% of the time.. Lacking better reason than I'm easy to lynch makes me think even more that mafia play here. They got stuck because you ended on MZ and your vote was the forced vote target.. Branch (the only other option via Pandain [who never actually pushed for him]) was never getting lynched (you t!Branch)So maby Koshi/Pandain? Both Branch/ Koshi (Koshi super wierd because he went from OMGUS m!ES read to 'weakest scum read' to posting a couple of my post, then not even reading the rest and just calling me confirm mafia. This fits your perspective of mafia just trying to end game by ML (on t!ES). Question in my mind then is why not try harder for it? Because I think if mafia team consolidated on me with one swayed vote they would of won last cycle.. Assuming I'm town Bugs/J, who would be mafia outside Pandain then? Right, what a mystery indeed that Meapak didn’t hammer his own scum partner on a day that he thought he could get branch (most likely a townie) lynched. What a mystery indeed when Meapak spent the most effort out of anyone trying to kill Branch when he could’ve just hammered you, a supposed townie. So many mysteries here in your made-up make believe world where you’re town but I see no mysteries at all if you and Pandain are scum together. gg, you should concede now. Every post you make just makes you look worse. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 03 2019 13:45 Eversince wrote: *laugh* You know, as much as I hate martyr, I probably would concede. But town can't do that crap. So you are stuck with me !! I'm not going to fight this much though. I lose hotspot soon unless I can renew and I won't know that until Monday morning. I'll try to prove myself town but if everyone wants to lynch me anyway just lynch me before Pandain because at least then new games can start. If my post make me look worse then fine. I don't care. at least post-game I can say I tried to tell you people! I roll over for no one hehe !Feel free to do what you promised and filter Pandain & then tell us what to do with him. You know, cause you seem to have spent quite a bit of time pointlessly “arguing” with me now. I say pointlessly because you literally don’t ever come to a proper conclusion ever. And why make preemptive excuses for things and martyr/claim you don’t care about dying when if you’re town you could’ve already played the game about five times over? -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Players 1) NoSmurfHere me = dumbass Jock = god, town MVP 2) Holyflare Vanilla Townie killed night 3 Uncooperative, selfish, master antitown plan schemer 3) Raynpelikoneet Single Sexy Mason lynched day 1. Dunning-Kruger effect 4) Alakaslam Vanilla Townie killed night 3 Philosopher 5) Fecalfeast Vanilla Townie lynched day 3 That guy who gets lynched for being a dick 6) Eywa That guy who lynches others by being a dick (aka me 1.0) 7) Pandain Dictionary definition of active lurker 8) Coag: hope your dog is okay Branch: that noob who is a noob (but isn’t) and posts complete nonsense with utter confidence 9) Tubesock Single Sexy Mason killed night 2. Thought his dead partner’s reads were good enough for a game-long tunnel 10) Chezinu Parity Cop lynched day 2 Inexplicable as always. Inactive so 3x usual mystery levels 11) Koshi Is Koshi 12) Meapak_Ziphh Cupid lynched day 4 Hates being scum LOL + Show Spoiler + wp though, seemed very different from what I remember your scum game like...at least after day 1? Or maybe the style of everyone else is now super distracting so you could just appear townie to me. But I’m a dumbass. Regardless wp 13) Vivax Vanilla Townie killed night 1 Got shot cause scum couldn’t figure out the real mason 14) Eversince Replaced Night 1. Has time to post but not time to read OBS OF SHAME 1) Conversion Probably laughing at all of us rn 2) 3) -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 26 2019 02:42 Coagulation wrote: Im putting my old baby girl down tomorrow. Im hurting more than I ever have in my life. Im sorry I wont be around to finish. Sorry I misread this post originally. I’m so so sorry for your loss. + Show Spoiler + I’m dreading the day I have to do this for my own pup and he’s getting there himself. Coag if you need someone to talk to feel free to PM me. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Check out this circular logic from MZ. Trying to lynch FF but also trying to townread eywa? On July 30 2019 09:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: It's actually incredibly hard to do an honest analysis of someone who has been calling you scum with literally nothing to back up the claims since like D1. I've kinda been ignoring most of what Eywa has said because I don't feel like giving the time of day when he doesn't have any reason aside from his gut (which helped get rayn killed). It's very tempting to OMGUS a case because this dude seems like a real asshole (hate when people talk about their home sites). But I agree with a couple points he's made today: This is correct. On July 30 2019 09:37 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Gonna pick up my read of FF where I left off, this is already not a great start: This actually makes me feel better about not going after Eywa now. Scum team: Koshi, Branch, FF He's using eywa's scumread of FF to scumread FF and townread eywa, and then uses FF attacking eywa to confirm both. -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 03 2019 21:27 Branch.AUT wrote: I agree that a scum strategy of 2 active seeking a mislynch, and a third unconnected person as a failsafe makes sense. I had also considered this possibility, but was hesitant to devote too much time in case the game ended yesterday. Im going to read through eywa/pandain/eversince with thisnin mind over the next few hours. One more thing bugs/jock, since you have the modt town cred, and probably will die now. Ease name a successor, ro lead the lynch. One united vote is still necessary, and I think this would help our case Make sure you read MZ. His filter is short but interesting. You might be able to use it to figure out who's mafia. I had a brief look this morning but nothing too detailed. As for who will lead town, it doesn't really matter because its 3vs2 either way and you and koshi will probably vote together. -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
So whichever one of you is the townie: you are literally the game decider lol. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
But anyway, we need to figure out which one is the townie in those 3. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Presumably if they are town here they’d want to talk out some situations before we get shot but, hey... So if scum did indeed bus, it’s probably Eywa instead of ES. However the simplest looking solution appears to be ES/Pandain. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 04 2019 05:20 Koshi wrote: I believe in this though... My gut says eywa bussed yesterday. Fuck. Dont know if I can trust my gut. Today Eversince or not? MZ and Pandain started new wagons when we were on Eversince. I'm thinking we kill eywa but I don't know what bugs thinks. I like your point that mafia shouldn't all be doing the same thing. MZ's filter is weird for eywa like I said before. -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 04 2019 05:24 Koshi wrote: Wouldnt mz join us on Eversonce if Eversince was town? Lol eversonce Yeah probably. ES is still a good kill. Honestly I have no idea between the three of them there's like 10% difference. Why not pandain? -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 02 2019 18:19 Pandain wrote: I would much rather vote Branch or ES than MZ. What has MZ done? His next post being: On August 03 2019 01:16 Pandain wrote: I'm switching to Meapack. I'm not sure I'll be back before lynch. If I'm not here, don't switch to another lynch -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 04 2019 05:25 Koshi wrote: Look Eywa. If you believe I am mafia youbare making the same mistake as MZ yesterday. I am not going to talk to retarded and just vote it. If you believe he is scum why write this? I’m a bit confused but I do think eversince is still a good Lynch just based on vote count analysis. I really think mafia would have just killed her because they only needed MZ to move his vote from branch. We all moved to vote MZ because he was vote splitting and we made that super obvious, and even scum who hate playing scum would have been able to see the way out if ES was just town there. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Two nights ago they killed HF & slam because we were wrong and they wanted to mislynch branch or Koshi Last night they killed branch because we now TR him but we are correct on ES/Pandain Like the simplest answer here I think is the correct one, as ES so kindly pointed out -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 04 2019 05:44 Koshi wrote: If eywa was mafia Ibwould be dead right? Slam hf and now branch. I am the only fucker here yelling consistently that eywa is mafia Yeah I think so too. I think scum is not strong enough to push a mislynch by themselves and they need us to do it. As proven by neither Pandain nor MZ being able to get any votes on their wagons LOL Pandain looks scummy for real reasons. ES looks scummy for real reasons. Eywa only looks scummy because of MZ. I say we kill one of the first two, probably eversince because she indeed did not get hammered by any of those other 3 (Eywa, MZ, and Pandain ALL could have hammered her, and at least 2 are scum) Then the hard choice is Eywa vs Pandain which you can make. I personally would kill Pandain. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 04 2019 05:24 Eywa- wrote: Interesting night kill... I'm guessing this means scum!Koshi? Jock pointed this out but this is a pretty shite post IMO actually might make you scum if you don’t do anything else here -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Why did you vote eversince yesterday after branch if you thought she was town? -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 03 2019 04:29 Grackaroni wrote: Day Four Vote Count Meapak_Ziphh (6): Eywa, NoSmurfHere, Koshi, Branch.AUT, Pandain, Eversince Branch.AUT (1): Meapak_Ziphh Eversince (0): Koshi (0): Meapak_Ziphh is currently set to be lynched. Please let us know if you notice any mistakes! The deadline is Friday, Aug 02 8:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in The blue votes didn’t matter, and Meapak threw his vote on Branch. The two options are that one of Eywa/Koshi bussed and one of Eywa/Koshi did not bus. All the info is here and I’m just too lazy/tired to process it. I was wrong on yesterday, Eversince technically did get hammered by Eywa but then Eywa was also the first to move to MZ. Would scum do that regardless of Eversince’s alignment? I find it unlikely. Just FYI that is afk for a while since he said he felt burnt out so it’s just me for the next ~24 hours. After that we swap though because I board a couple flights home. Anyway once again Occam’s razor is pointing to “no bus” but I’m the only one who thinks this. I also do agree that it would be a really all-in move by scum and that in theory it’s not likely but the vote patterns don’t line up with either Eywa or Koshi being scum. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Does anyone think Pandain is town here? -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Eywa voting us is throwing me off. His vote on MZ aligns with his opinion from early game and I do think of all the bus possibilities it’s the most likely. I just saw him as townish based on the vote/unvote pattern. Koshi you think it’s E&E, why is Pandain town here? -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Prove that you can pull your own weight and that you are town. Your vote hasn’t mattered once this game. Like whoever the two townies are besides us, you need to step it the fuck up. I’m obviously asking a lot because literally no one has given two fucks this game with the exception of Jock and it’s sad that we can’t just win the game ourselves because we weren’t lucky enough to roll blue. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 04 2019 14:02 Eversince wrote: Eywa just being a pain in the butt is par the course. I've been hesitant to say it's m!Eywa agenda because I played a game as scum recently and t!Eywa was just the same un-negotiable pain in the butt. But the difference I suppose at least that game he did put in some work. That's not happening this game at all. Look at his D1 vs everything else since then. It's completely different. You point on Pandain is exactly why I'm more leaving it up in the air to let others read Pandain. Pandain's play style just looks dirty to me all the time. I can't read him well ever so I just end up tunnel on him or I ignore it. That's bad of me here I know, but it's true :/.. Like every other game I find Pandain very questionable. If someone else can lay out analysis on him that would be great because I always fail to get it ..I don’t fucking understand what conclusion you are drawing. Like ever. Can you actually take a stance?? From your perspective it seems like you think we are town. Do you think Koshi is scum or not? Work with me here, seriously if you are town this waffling is not helping. You look like you are the only person putting any effort in besides us at this moment and I can’t tell if it’s because you’re scum and about to die or if it’s because you’re town and you’re genuinely confused. Pick two names right now. Or assign percentages. Or just pick one person. Idgaf. Right now you’re giving no indication on who you’d actually vote and that’s the only thing that matters. You have one vote. If you can’t put down thoughts on the other 3 all at once then everything else and pick the one person you would kill at this very moment. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
We are lock town. I can guess as to why scum left us alive (probably MZ voting/hard pushing branch -> they felt they probably will never lynch him but beyond this no idea) but that makes the game easier for you. If you’re indeed town, out of 3 names you just have to pick one, the one other townie OR the one person you’d kill today. I actually don’t get why it’s so hard for you to pick a single name because it’s literally your only job. I’m so bothered by it I might actually go read your past games because I don’t remember you being this waffly when I was scum and you got lynched as town gunsmith. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
I’m still in the mood of not really giving any fucks who dies or what the result of the game is. Telling apart bad townies from scum is hard and this game essentially everyone played anti-town. Again, with the exception of Jock, who has now burned out. I wanna keep ranting cause it’s cathartic LOL. I enjoyed the game for the most part though, no real toxicity, just your average town and average scum teams. I want grack to give out awards for “most anti-town plays in the game” cause I think that would be hilarious. Who would win?? I think you could nominate everyone for something. Here’s my nominations: 1.) award for generally not giving a fuck, me (didn’t reread, didn’t look at past games, didn’t vote, didn’t really care who died, didn’t care who won, ranted several times, shit posted) 2.) award for biggest role wastage - Chezinu or Rayn? Pretty close one here. Actually I also wish Tube had just claimed mason and then tried to rally town around him for the one cycle. We could’ve had a circle going. 3.) award for causing the most chaos - damn it Holyflare LOLOL. I actually just chuckled thinking back to d2 4.) award for most game-irrelevant posts - probably slam lol. I enjoyed them though. Maybe next time I’m in California I’ll have time to visit LA, it’ll be my last trip for quite a while since I’m switching jobs next year (probably) 5.) award for the least game impact - probably Pandain. Done nothing at all regardless of alignment, at least in-thread if scum. 6.) award for the most confusing - branch. Schrödinger’s noob lololol 7.) award for the most waffly: Eversince. You’ve got 4 other players alive, and if you’re town then half are scum and half are town. But you want to hear “other people’s opinions” on players (aka Pandain) still. wat Trololol.jpeg -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 04 2019 14:59 Eversince wrote: Aww come on Bugs. If me wanting opinions from other people when the players I'm scum reading by myself basic at lylo is questionable then sheesh! But I won't dispute Eversince most waffle TL player 2019! Whose opinion on Pandain would actually even make you sure that Pandain is scum? How can you make a case on a player who has literally had 0 impact on the game and barely posted at all? Also why did you conveniently leave out the fact that MZ was also counter to the chezinu push? He voted Koshi with you and Pandain. Anyway. I’ll probably reread MZ’s filter a couple more times but on my first reread I couldn’t shake the thought that literally the three of you are just mafia here. MZ hard defended you for no particular reason at all. He replied to Koshi in a way that implied he thinks it’s the “last day” which he’d only do if he thought he could kill a townie (you could make the argument that he thought he’d die and he was faking sounding like a townie but IIRC he wasn’t at risk of dying at that point? It was fairly early in the day) Then there’s the fact that MZ had direct interactions with literally all four of us, Eywa, Koshi, and Branch and none with you and Pandain. Literally didn’t quote a single post from either of you all game. Used host WIFOM to clear you of being a scum replacement but painted branch as the scum replacement. We were left alive and MZ spent the most time trying to convince us to kill Koshi, which on paper to a scum player who hates playing scum probably makes sense because we actively pushed Koshi on d2 in opposition to the Chez wagon, and it’s tempting to think we wouldn’t reevaluate from a scum perspective because scum rarely reevaluate themselves. If Eywa on MZ was early distancing that turned into a bus, no idea why MZ held off on OMGUS unless he didn’t want to draw attention to it. He interacted with Eywa in ways that I find make it unlikely they were scum together, and if they were distancing from the start I find it more likely they would’ve made the pushing in both directions and not cared about OMGUS because such an early setup from scum is generally designed to throw a lot of chaos into the thread. No offense to MZ but he doesn’t strike me as the type of player to plan scum plays like that well in advance. Pandain: also literally no direct interaction with you nor MZ, except I think exactly once when you both voted Chezinu. Tons of direct interactions with branch, us, Koshi, Eywa, HF, slam, etc etc. The town Pandain I know tries to figure out the game and I think this would apply even when lacking time. No idea why town Pandain would say you’re playing different from what he’s seen as both alignments and then just do fuck all about it, instead just rail on Koshi for 3 cycles straight. And you, eversince: read progression makes no sense particularly on Eywa. Straight up admit to not wanting to kill anyone except Koshi and that Eywa was lock town earlier in the game but now suddenly unsure on Eywa. Again basically no interactions with Pandain or MZ but tons of interactions with other players. Said for days (like 6 at this point?) that you’d read MZ/Pandain but still haven’t done it. e.g: On July 28 2019 03:29 Eversince wrote: @HF Koshi- because he plays like a blind sheep, really odd buddying with people, random shit fights, unoriginal reads. Pandain- Was generally useless early, has some better points now but I don't agree with most of them. I'll look into him closer again since it looks like he isn't possible today anyway. Slam- Generally everywhere, activety is only useful if your doing stuff with it (which for the most part is kind of meh to me right now), the constant 'woe is me' appeals to emotion are just super bleh after you've done it entire game. Then he just burns town for no reason because he's 'had enough' Chez- Been useless literally entire game And you’re saying I overestimate your ability to read LOL If until now your only scumread was Koshi then you have literally no excuse for spending so much time on the game waffling for no reason when you can just park your vote on Koshi and ignore him & then filter Pandain & MZ to figure out the rest of the game. Anyway. If either Koshi or Eywa here are scum they really deserve the win because that means they faked a shit ton of interactions that when I read look really genuine, while the three of you/Pandain/MZ basically literally never interact with each other and have the weirdest posts in relation to each other. The only reason there is any doubt is because people are WIFOMing over “scum must have bussed here” and no one is doing any rereading (except me now) I find it far more likely that given the direction of the game and the sheer number of times we put TvT on the board, scum team thought they could just railroad another mislynch through. Keeping us alive was a good play on paper especially if MZ thought we were malleable due to me saying that he was making sense + us agreeing with the Koshi push on d2 when the other 3 pushing Koshi would have been scum. Might as well push an alternate who never flips if there are 8 townies killing Chez. -wherebugsgo | ||
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MZ Pandain Eversince The only way it is only one scum is if Koshi & Eywa are scum together. To that I call 100% bullshit. -wherebugsgo | ||
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Eywa & Koshi just sheep Jock. We hopefully win after flipping ES & Pandain. If not then gg whichever one of you is scum, you deserve the win 100% cause you both posted several things that seem borderline impossible as scum. -wherebugsgo | ||
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Literally any of the people I town read on right now would help my Pandain read Who? Already laid out my case. Did nothing all game and no attempt to figure out game. Not like town Pandain. Near zero proper interactions with MZ and most convenient flop on him ever. Completely irrelevant at LYLO even though he won the game for town by correctly identifying the last scum in the last game I played with him. You can trust my read because I actually defend Pandain when he’s town and I have confidence in reading him. See the game I’m talking about, Uninspired, here: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/545657-uninspired-mafia And if they tried to hammer me, HF literally saved me by pushing onto Chezinu. Which sucked for town but it gives us a chance still at least. No idea what the fuck you’re talking about here because you didn’t receive a single vote the day Chezinu died Mafia team gave the lynch on me away because of HF, now with MZ flipping I look terrible and they'll still win if I get pushed through. Which is easy for even bad scum to get, I'm lose hotspot tomorrow night (unless I get lucky can renew) Which means I'm not even going to be around to defend myself. Just lynch ES and win the game which mafia cares losing MZ if it guarantee town lynch? same thing here, hf was dead yesterday and had nothing to do with you being voted or MZ dying I've had mafia reads on tons more than Koshi -.-.. FF, Chez, Koshi, Pandain, MZ, etc. I can't park my vote on Koshi if the rest of town isn't. It's better to consolidate than be out in the bleacher for nothing. And I DID filter Pandain. I made a post about it. I filtered MZ much later but now I get flack for re-evaluating reads. Lots of good that did me huh? Given that only Koshi and Pandain are alive now no idea what happened to your previous certainty. If you want consolidation and you believe we’re town no idea why you haven’t said jack shit yet about Eywa voting us And just to make sure I got this right.. You're going to lynch me because Pandain/MZ/ES didn't 'interact'? What the actual fuck man. I already said I wasn't posting things that I didn't have much original thought to contribute. How is me spamming up the thread rehashing BS crap a reason I'm mafia here? I want an answer because this is just such BS.. If mafia don't interact with me (they don't have to. I'm stupid busy, and everyone has been poking at it early on anyway. So just ignore and then lynch t!ES for game) I can't do a damn thing about it!! This says nothing Can you name another player who MZ didn’t interact with? Can you name another player who Pandain didn’t interact with? Do scum who don’t like playing scum like MZ typically interact with their teammates a lot? Keeping you alive only makes sense if your going to push their lynch through. Which you are currently doing.. Otherwise why would mafia leave a basic 'lock t! NSH' alive in this long? Unless you are just mafia. I don't think that is true but if it is, my goodness man excellent play because you are never getting lynched this game ! So then Koshi is scum right, according to you? Like, you appear so confident but can’t even put the basic shit together. If we are lock town pushing a mislynch then automatically Koshi should become your vote and you only need to convince us to kill Koshi. But you know you can’t do that because Koshi isn’t actually scum here. Like seriously. The 2 and 2 is that scum is leaving us alive because we supposedly telegraphed that we’d kill you yesterday. Cool. Then anyone who votes with us on you is almost assuredly scum because you are apparently one of the other townies. And I suppose Eywa is also scum according to you because he’s voting us, a lock town. So why haven’t you reached this conclusion yet??? Literally the only explanation is that you are scum because your options are still wide open even though you keep saying things that logically imply you should have voted already. -wherebugsgo | ||
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Why did you say “anyone you town read” but then not mention who you actually town read? Who do you town read here? If you agree on Pandain now are you going to vote him or not? -wherebugsgo | ||
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On August 04 2019 16:57 Eversince wrote: @ Bug #2162 Take my scum reads away from players left in this game and you have easy idea my town reads -.-.. Why don’t you just answer the questions directly? Who do you town read? Who are you voting? -wherebugsgo | ||
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Literally any of the people I town read on right now would help my Pandain read. And then list only one townread? -wherebugsgo | ||
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On August 04 2019 17:23 Eversince wrote: Umm... There is me (V.town), you (town) Koshi (scummy as chicken shit), Eywa (Scummy because he is playing so off from even the egotistical tyrant I expected [see D1]), Pandain (scum because most lacking town play ever. Seems to only be around/ make points on opportune lynches, where the heck has Pandain been useful in this game ever?) I don't know how else to explain :/ You townread yourself? So you were waiting on an explanation of what your townreads thought of Pandain. Townreads, plural. You said this multiple times, even saying if I subtract your townreads from the players in the game I get your scumreads. Which is hilarious because you only listed 1 town read when I insisted. But now you list yourself (ROFL) Which is doubly hilarious because I already explained like a good 3-4 times why I believed Pandain to be scum and you just pretended I hadn’t explained anything (probably weren’t even reading my posts properly) Not only that but even if English is your second language you said ANY of your town reads, which implies at minimum 2, and that’s not even grammatically the most natural way of saying that, it really implies at least 3. Which unless that was a scum slip you have no room to talk about trash town play yeah? Thanks for repeatedly confirming you are scum I hope you enjoyed the little game we just played LOL-wherebugsgo | ||
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Eywa move your vote please -wherebugsgo | ||
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I’m sorry you guys are way worse at scum than me because I’m going to lay out why I would never in a million years make any of those kills at the times they happened, as scum. Because turns out, regardless of alignment, I read the game. It only that, Jock has also been reading the game the whole time and if we were scum together there is never a chance in a million years we’d have left Tube alive for a cycle longer than necessary. He would have been 100% dead night 1. Here’s why: 1. rayn flips MASON on day 1. This means that his partner becomes confirmed town on claim and is almost certainly in the list of voters with him, unless by chance rayn’s partner was completely AFK. It is not fake claimable by scum unless there was a scum voter with rayn. This turns up 3 candidates. Take a look at the vote count: On July 25 2019 02:43 Grackaroni wrote: Day One Vote Count Raynpelikoneet (5): Eywa, Holyflare, Koshi, Pandain, Meapak_Ziphh NoSmurfHere (4): Tubesock, Meapak_Ziphh (2): Coagulation (0): Holyflare (0): Not Voting (3): NoSmurfHere, Chezinu, Revelator Raynpelikoneet is currently set to be lynched. Please let us know if you notice any mistakes! The deadline is Wednesday, Jul 24 8:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in (Our/Jock’s vote was actually inconsequential because the final margin was 2 votes) The three candidates obviously being: Slam Vivax Tube 2. Now every scum team member at that point was proven to be afk or not reading when they killed Vivax instead of tube, because they completely 100% missed the following posts: On July 25 2019 01:48 Vivax wrote: Reread NSH a bit, dont want to lynch any more. I think Pandain might be mafia but I dont have a slamdunk reason. Just something about how he approaches the game that feels offputting. On July 25 2019 12:24 Vivax wrote: Looks like I forgot to unvote NSH and vote anything else yesterday really.. I think we can all agree that after that mislynch I don't really have to feel arsed to play. He was rather obvious town. My advice is that you look into HF and pandain. Vivax would never do this if he were rayn’s partner. He’d defend rayn, and make sure he voted as a block with rayn. Why would he say he wouldn’t kill us when his partner is 100% sure on killing us? I am the best scum player in this player list. I do not let confirmed townies live when they are this easy to find, and if I had complete info like I would as scum I would have identified tube instantly. It took me several hours as town to narrow it down to slam & tube (hence my really weird conditional scum read on slam during that cycle) but as scum I’m certain I would have called that shot because tube’s posts were really blatant. It would’ve gotten rid of a confirmed townie and I would’ve just eaten the suspicion afterward because I love attention as scum. This why also I didn’t read into the Vivax nor tube kills (they were both very clearly attempts at mason hunting) and the fact that Pandain is digging this up now is really damning. Anyway. “TS kill makes no sense” when he was literally only one of 3 candidates for mason is straight up horseshit. On August 04 2019 21:22 Eywa- wrote: It looked almost certain that Koshi was dead, so it's likely that he was bussed. Which I fucked up by flipping on FeFe No. I seriously doubt Koshi is scum here. Firstly, he got pushed on d2 when Chezinu was the alternate (actually don’t even remember who was on the block before Koshi & Chez got shoved in there but anyway) Let’s say koshi is scum. That means that at this point: On July 28 2019 04:42 Grackaroni wrote: Day Two Vote Count Chezinu (5): Koshi (3): NoSmurfHere (2): Alakaslam (2): Eywa, Eywa (0): Meapak_Ziphh (0): Pandain (0): Tubesock (0): FecalFeast (0): Chezinu is currently set to be lynched. Please let us know if you notice any mistakes! The deadline is Saturday, Jul 27 8:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in Scum was literally 100% fine with him dying because there are at least two scum on him. This is very very strange because I barely gave a proper reason to vote him, I was just like hey why don’t we kill Koshi and Eversince was super gung-ho about it. Then both MZ & Pandain joined. At 5-3, when we know now that MZ is scum and at least one of ES/Pandain is scum, why would scum risk Koshi becoming a viable wagon again unless he was town? They had no idea whether we would get cold feet on Chezinu and then go back to Koshi. It’s impossible to predict. On day 3 they essentially did the same thing again and kept lamenting that Koshi didn’t get lynched. He’s literally been the steadiest read for mafia since d2 and only in the last hour has Pandain dropped him as a target. There is lots of other evidence that Koshi is not scum, mostly in interactions with MZ and other players. The simplest answer is that we put up town after town for lynch, and mafia never had to bus. It’s Pandain & Eversince. None of their votes, opinions, or stories stand up to even minimal scrutiny. -wherebugsgo | ||
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-J | ||
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On August 04 2019 21:46 Pandain wrote: Why would you think mafia are trying to snipe the mason day 1 or day 2? Sure it's possible, but it's also possible they're trying to shoot people who are on the right track, or genuinely looked in as town, or trying to mindgame people, etc... Hold on a second So I am scum. Tube admits to wanting to tunnel me for the rest of the game, after rayn gets lynched (NIGHT ONE) And scum, rather than mason hunting, shoots Vivax for “being on the right track” or whatever other stupid reason which makes 0 sense because there’s a fucking confirmed townie floating around in a pool of 3 players and everyone knows that (and Vivax is conveniently in that pool) Why wouldn’t I just go for the two for one deal and shoot tube on n1???? Vivax’s reads were “look into HF and Pandain” and he fingered you and Coag. If I were scum and you are town here why the fuck would I tell people to stop reading into that kill, and give you and Coag breathing room, because I believed it to be a shitty mason hunting attempt, rather than just naturally pushing suspicion and letting the speculation run wild? I don’t purposely make my own game harder as scum, that’s straight up moronic and against my own wincondition. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On August 04 2019 21:48 Pandain wrote: And also for someone who says they "Read the entire game" you missed one of my two only posts last day cycle where I said Koshi is pretty likely town. Nope. Didn’t miss it. You speculated on you being alive (why in the fuck would scum ever shoot you, even if it’s Koshi? You’ve literally done nothing all game) meaning Koshi was scum after it was obvious no one was biting the Koshi push. Mafia play was to try to mislynch one of Branch or Koshi as proven by the lone votes from you and MZ. Your vote was inconsequential and is one of several scum claims you’ve now made during LYLO. Also you’re the only one encouraging nonsense speculation from the night kills when as town we don’t stand to benefit from that speculation. I think you’re a plenty smart town player, probably one of the smartest in this player list so I highly doubt you can be town here, regardless of how much you may have IRL excuses for your inactivity. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On August 04 2019 22:02 Eywa- wrote: That's actually hilarious because I think as scum, tubesock is probably the first (maybe only) player i would killed out of the night kills, so they are indeed weird. I think it's Pandain and Koshi. Koshi is not scum here... Million times it’s ES & Pandain. Read my exchange with ES from earlier. No town ES makes those mistakes. In fact the whole “I mixed up d3 and d4” shit was a second scum slip, because HF pushed Chezinu on DAY TWO. She mixed up day 2 and day 4 (how????) and basically straight up admitted she didn’t reeval at all after Chezinu AND FF got lynched. Complete nonparticipant when MZ got lynched too. You don’t leave a player like that alive at LYLO. Both of them have proven themselves multiple times in the last two cycles to be the only liabilities to town left. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On August 04 2019 16:52 Eversince wrote: @Bugs- Ok, you are right.. I mix D4/ D3 My fault there. We agree on Pandain then. Yes I have been m!Koshi for past few cycles really? What's there more to say about Eywa? I did comment on his play and what I thought about it several times?? Did you miss it? I'm not sure where you get I'm super confident either.. I wouldn't be asking for opinions if I was super sure on my reads. I've been wrong literally this entire game. So I'm trying to use others as sounding board to re-evaluate reads.. Eywa I was saying it's very wrong that he came in, pushed Rayn to death, went afk (for wedding), and fell off a damn cliff for rest of game. What has Eywa done since Rayn lynch? Not a darn thing. I'm not scum, I'm doing my damn best to try to show it to you. you're being as dense as me here.. I've said before I don't vote for pressure! You can read my post, what the actual muck does a bolded vote mean anything 20 hr out from deadline? (hint: not a darn thing). If you read through my older games like you said you where tempted to do you 'd know this already. LOOK AT THIS Like she claims that HF pushing Chezinu prevented her from dying (????????) Then I point out that HF was already dead when she was getting votes. She says “oh whoops mixed up d3 and d4 lol” So then when did FF die?? Did she completely fucking miss a cycle of the game?? How in the fuck does any townie forget literally 144+ hours of the game? How is that even possible if she did reevals on THREE of her scumreads dying in a row??? -wherebugsgo | ||
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On August 05 2019 02:15 Eversince wrote: For fucks sake, next time I try to sub into a game someone slap me! NSH like it or not you'll see the error in thinking I can't be this way as town post game. I've repeatedly said (not just in games either I think) my memory is dumpster tier ! This makes me look like scum so be it. At this point I do wonder why the heck you are still alive unless mafia left you AGAIN to lead a wrong lynch. You NOT seeing this is dirty as my jumpsuit after 9 loads of pigs! I'm going to put an olive branch out here and say we vote Pandain, people can take it or leave it, I am willing to give you one more cycle but if I die game is 100% over. If people think I have a chance of flipping mafia just lynch me and end this charade already. I won't even be around next cycles unless I can renew hotspot so if ES is a ? for anyone it's literally pointless to continue here. Nice. Setting yourself up to switch to vote us I see You’ve done a lot of talking and no doing. Either vote Pandain and “extend the olive branch” so-to-speak or just get your charade over with and vote us with your scumbuddy Pandain. If you’re smart you’ll bus here because it gives Eywa and Koshi a chance to fight each other but hey, to each their own Also I’m not sure if we have actually led any mislynches this game. I by definition haven’t because I haven’t voted, but: Our vote on rayn didn’t matter. He went and killed himself HF led the vote on Chezinu and by the looks of it, 8 townies killed him. I was aligned with scum in defending Chezinu as not the best lynch, again by what I can tell We switched to FF over Koshi (this you could argue led to his death but other players also switched) and I didn’t care who died that day And then we killed a scum MZ with Koshi & branch & Eywa. What have you done this game again? Forgotten which cycle you were up for lynch? Forgotten that HF killed Chezinu on day 2? Watched 3 supposed scum reads flip and done 0 reeval? Wasted your vote in the first round of LYLO? Cool story. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On August 05 2019 02:57 Eversince wrote: Bugs how do you even get to that conclusion? Literally alls I had to do there as mafia is bullshit some reason to vote you. I find it odd that your alive, your still convinced that your 100% right on my lynch when if your not mafia they had to leave you alive for a freaking reason. I put middle ground here because I don't think your the scum here, and you say it's me setting up for a vote switch? Why the hell would I suggest votes other than me/you then? Why would you adopt the exact same rhetoric as Pandain and then claim you want to vote him? There is not a world in which we can be scum with Pandain but those are the two choices you have just implied. Literally only scum could get that dichotomy after you called us lock-town just a few hours ago. I’m willing to accept the sliver of a chance you have played a horrible town game here because your play is literally indistinguishable from scum. Neither Eywa nor Koshi have done anything nearly as bad as you, neither of them look as bad by association, and neither of them wasted their vote in LYLO round 1 and are poised to do it again in LYLO round 2. That you are even arguing with me here about why mafia left us alive instead of just voting Pandain is proof you are scum. We are not confirmed town and never were. Only scum know why they left us alive, and only scum would care to muddy the water with why we are alive when the 100% obvious non-speculatory signs point to us not being scum. I also don’t care what the outcome of this game is because I’ve already gleaned my personal satisfaction from it. If I’m wrong on either you or Pandain, it doesn’t matter to me because you both would have played really awfully to have done all of the things you’ve done esp. in the last two cycles. And if you both are scum and we get lynched then I was right and the loss isn’t really our fault anyway guilt tripping is only an effective strategy if it has any hope of changing your opponent’s mind and I have 0 guilt this game.-wherebugsgo | ||
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Why is it so hard to just vote then? You had no problem doing this when you were trying to kill Koshi instead of Chezinu. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On August 05 2019 03:20 Eversince wrote: Like my goodness, how hard is it to see. You are alive still. Mafia leave universal TR by EVERYONE alive? (mostly the reason people are voting you now??) You aren't even considering the fact that if t!NSH is STILL ALIVE here it's because mafia want to let him push through a lynch. It's super funny that the hammer is MINE right now. You finding it scummy that I don't HAMMER YOU shouldn't be 'Oh, m!ES is just setting up vote switch back to me later', I said earlier 'you never get voted off today'. Granted you got votes since then but I had nothing to do with it.. But it's totally m!ES trying to lynch you here?? *roll eyes* how exactly? I've literally done nothing but defend you this game.. I'm STILL doing it! But no, I'm mafia trying to setup lynch on you somehow? Stop being dense Mr. 'best mafia player in list ever'. Pull your head out of the dirt and re-think this. That’s cause you’re scum and you know the townies will pounce you for changing your read Sucks to be trapped, doesn’t it? You and Pandain both wasted your votes yesterday, at LYLO. For Koshi to be scum, that means scum wasted minimum two votes because Koshi & MZ could have voted branch off the island with you & Pandain. I’m gonna quote you back at yourself: On August 02 2019 14:12 Eversince wrote: Meh, I'm probably never going to not vote Koshi. He's 100% mafia in my mind and I'm tired of lynching into 'partners' Let's hang him already zz.. More lies, I'm a loose scum read now? After D3 OMGUS and calling me scum for the past 48+ hours? Really? I'm just POE though guys. Just POE. *sigh* I'm done.. We can't risk mis-lynch and Koshi is just mafia. Branch is runner up but re-previous statement, I rather just burn Koshi. I don't think Eywa is scum for same reasons I said yesterday. You guys convince me and maby I'll change my read but I don't see it x.x NSH still super town. Points about mafia leaving him alive to push lynches through is worth looking into. Depending on how long I'm up tonight I'm try to look into NSH mafia reads and who's +1'ing them and trying to lead him to decisions. HF kill makes plenty of sense, Slam dis-owning Koshi and pushing away might have scared mafia team to get rid of him. Not sure on this one yet though. Both options viable in my head right now. Leaves between MZ/Pandain. I've spent a fair amount of time waffling on Pandain, MZ I don't really remember outside of a few of his larger cases. I'm think on this for a while, I'm not sure who out of the pair is the mafia.. I'll filter some point tonight or tomorrow and try to figure out between them. So if you believe you are town and are not sure Pandain is town, that means you think in LYLO that scum didn’t mislynch with potentially TWO TOWNIES indicating that they’d vote incorrectly. It means they literally preemptively bussed MZ just for shits and giggles when literally the exact same 4 players had hammered you already. That is so unbelievable I don’t even have words for it. -wherebugsgo | ||
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On August 05 2019 03:23 Eversince wrote: Okokok.... Just to re-iterate myself. I do not use votes as leverage. If you can't read the damn thread and know where my vote is going by my logic, I see no reason to make vote half way into the day because it's just saying WHAT I'VE ALREADY FUCKING SAID. So yes, I hold my vote until EOD most of the time because it's pointless to me for casting it earlier. It's literally only a statement I said this, I said this AGAIN!! If you can't understand that by now then your hopeless. I'm not going to say it again. All I see is “I’m doing anti-town selfish play #1 in LYLO because I’m scum and don’t know where my vote is ending up” You should learn how to play scum better. I can coach you lol -wherebugsgo | ||
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-wherebugsgo | ||
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On August 05 2019 03:26 Eversince wrote: Assume for a second I'm town. Mafia already knows this. Worked though didn't it? Lose MZ win game. *sigh* Riiiight. If you’re town you would’ve just died yesterday because MZ would have voted you instead of splitting the vote. You literally don’t even know that’s the entire reason we killed him. He also fucked up and voted branch instead of you. What a mystery that is, indeed, when MZ flipped scum and could’ve easily consolidated the lynch with vote #5 on you. You didn’t think this one very far through though did you? You thought HF was alive and saved you by killing Chezinu LOL -wherebugsgo | ||
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Imagine two people getting the same weird fact completely wrong by coincidence. -J | ||
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On August 05 2019 03:35 Eversince wrote: Literally the only reason you are still alive Jock is a) t!NSH is lynching into town and mafia are confident he will do it again (he is) b) NSH is mafia. Those are the only reasons why you are still alive. Bullshit! That was why we were still alive yesterday. Now that mafia knows we used that yesterday to work out MZ was mafia (go read yesterday now if you didn't before) they can use this as WIFOM whenever they want, and its just fantastic that you and pandain seem to be pushing it anyway despite this obvious shit that i shouldn't have to point out. -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 03:30 Eversince wrote: Of course mafia had to bus yesterday.. Anyone not consolidating would have just been obvious outing themselves. I don't see how you think m!ES spew Eywa to confirm town status either. Where did that happen?? The scene: day 4 of this horrid game, aka LYLO. It is four (4) town vs three (3) scum. the consolidation target is eversince. A single incorrect townie results in a loss. In this make-believe fantasy world, eversince is town. Eversince takes three, then four votes, but poor Meapak_Ziphh didn’t get the memo and failed to consolidate on the incorrect townie lynch. On August 02 2019 01:59 Grackaroni wrote: Day Four Vote Count Eversince (3): NoSmurfHere, Koshi, Branch.AUT, Eywa Koshi (1): Pandain Branch.AUT (1): Meapak_Ziphh Not Voting (1): Eversince Eversince is currently set to be lynched. Please let us know if you notice any mistakes! The deadline is Friday, Aug 02 8:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in Eywa, whom Eversince has townread for “aforementioned reasons”, leads a vote switch to the non-consolidating scum Meapak_Ziphh. Pandain and eversince are passive observers. On August 02 2019 23:12 Grackaroni wrote: Day Four Vote Count Meapak_Ziphh (4): Eywa, NoSmurfHere, Koshi, Branch.AUT Koshi (1): Pandain Branch.AUT (1): Meapak_Ziphh Eversince (0): Not Voting (1): Eversince Meapak_Ziphh is currently set to be lynched. Please let us know if you notice any mistakes! The deadline is Friday, Aug 02 8:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in Non-consolidators: three players. Pandain, Eversince, Meapak_Ziphh. Meapak was scum. Yet, how could this be? If Eversince were town, why wouldn’t the scummy scummy non-consolidating Meapak_Ziphh just kill Eversince? Must’ve had a death wish, no? -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 03:35 Eversince wrote: Literally the only reason you are still alive Jock is a) t!NSH is lynching into town and mafia are confident he will do it again (he is) b) NSH is mafia. Those are the only reasons why you are still alive. Yeah cause we lynched a townie yesterday LOL -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 03:41 Eversince wrote: Why the **** does mafia leave you alive here and shoot Branch (who has half the remaining players '?') BUT NO! They shoot Branch and leave universal townread by basically EVERYONE NSH alive? Makes total sense (/sarcasm) The fact you are piling manure on me for not making sense when you are saying this is just so stupid. Literally mafia has no reason to leave you alive unless you are going to be more of a benefit than a liability. Period. You refusing to see this fact is just .... er... bad. Right. Go ahead and vote us, dear. It’ll help Koshi and eywa come to their senses. I suppose Pandain is our partner then, right? Lololol You really both fucked this up hard. Pandain called Koshi lock town and you called Eywa lock town. Based on the evidence they’re both town. How salty are you right now LOL -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 03:41 Eversince wrote: Why the **** does mafia leave you alive here and shoot Branch (who has half the remaining players '?') BUT NO! They shoot Branch and leave universal townread by basically EVERYONE NSH alive? Makes total sense (/sarcasm) The fact you are piling manure on me for not making sense when you are saying this is just so stupid. Literally mafia has no reason to leave you alive unless you are going to be more of a benefit than a liability. Period. You refusing to see this fact is just .... er... bad. I literally just explained it to you and you ignored every word i said. It was probably so you and pandain can do what you're doing right now. It isn't convincing though. -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Let's get serious. In the scenario you mentioned where we are being kept alive by mafia because of who we are pushing, who is mafia in this case? It can't be koshi because we were scum reading him when we were kept alive last time. That means scum is 100% eywa and pandain. You already said you don't think we're mafia, so you are naming eywa and pandain as the scum team, no?? -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 03:43 Eversince wrote: #2243 Or.... MZ can't be arsed to play mafia because he hates it. Mafia use this as a easy push off MZ, lynch town next cycle, why they didn't just kill me.. Not a clue. But it's working anyway because now I'm still dying and they will still win.. So *shrugs*.. Yeah, MZ hates playing mafia so much he’d kill himself and play against his own wincon rather than just winning the game, just in order to spite his teammates for having the misfortune to roll scum with him, because he wants you to hate playing scum too. You know, when if you were actually town he could’ve just easily killed you and the game from his perspective would have ended at the exact same fucking time and we wouldn’t be here trying to explain this fantasy world where Meapak plays against his own wincon when he sees 1-2 townies in you and Pandain not consolidating. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 03:50 Eversince wrote: I was more thinking if 2/3 of the mafia team is mia lurk status they might not have been around to discuss. Yeah, 2/3 of mafia team was AFK when four fucking players moved to kill MZ in a matter of a few hours. Right. The only ones who were afk were you and Pandain. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
The 3 non-consolidators were the same the WHOLE DAY. What you are peddling makes 0 sense. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 03:49 Eversince wrote: Why is Koshi auto town because you were scum reading him? He didn't get lynched and on D4 you basically moved him to your town pile which meant he was never getting lynched that day. I think Eywa has been very useless outside of D1 (I made a post on this I can filter myself and pull it up if you want) Pandain just been useless all game (also same post that I made on Eywa, cept I've made post about Pandain several times because I just waffle him always..) OK SO On the one hand, you are asking us to change our scum reads based on the fact that we were kept alive - and at exactly the same time ignore the fact that we were kept alive the night before when KOSHI WAS OUR MAIN SCUM READ. I don't know how you can interpret those events as us townreading koshi before the night kills. We were saying he had to be the next lynch, I didn't change my mind until we were still alive the next day. This was literally a lie. Why would you be lying about this shit right now, who are you trying to convince with your lies? -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 03:59 Eversince wrote: I'm asking you to take into account that if you aren't scum, mafia has left you alive for so long for a reason. You are refusing to see it. Alls you see is 'mafia could of lynched ES and won game' Why they didn't do that, honest I can't say.. I'm not scum and it makes no sense to me either! I will say though that if you're not mafia then you are probably getting played and mafia thought you have a high likelihood of pushing through a town lynch. Why else would they let you live? You're on the block for this right now. So don't try to tell me it's lies and wrong. So yes, you need to re-evaluate your reads because your obviously being used as a puppet or you're just scum and need to die. No I'm not refusing to see it. You are literally ignoring what i said about it and not responding. Here it is again. Please don't ignore. You gave two options, but there's a third option: 3) Mafia saw that I changed our reads because they left us alive last time, and left us alive thinking we would change our reads again. And that option makes sense because here you and pandain are trying to accomplish that exact goal right on cue. -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 03:53 Eversince wrote: You are proving my point! town stacks on MZ, I was around I don't know what the fuck your talking about. You literally are contributing my late vote style into your scum read on me! Mafia can't sway off MZ so obvious result.. Thank you for confirming that town stacked on MZ If it were only two townies on MZ, then the three scum could have voted you. There are maximum two scum in the MZ voters, because by definition there are only 3 scum, 1 of which was MZ himself. The MZ voters, as I may reiterate, are the exact same as the Eversince voters. The first two voters on MZ were Eywa and us. Which essentially confirms us as town. You all did us the favour of confirming branch. Which basically means only Koshi by VCA has the chance of being scum with you or Pandain. However on paper Koshi looks much better than either of you, and Koshi didn’t waste his vote either. Which leaves you and Pandain as scum by POE -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 04:05 Eversince wrote: But your point is invalid because you're NOT and that is what I'm saying. I've been high on your lynch list for a while now. I'm trying to explain why it doesn't make sense because YOU'RE NOT DOING IT SO MAFIA WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG HUH?! Fucking christ. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall! What point? Please, spell it out. Surely if you are town and you see that Pandain also wasted his vote, Pandain is confirmed scum to you? I don’t think you are completely pants on head as town. It’s actually a compliment for me to call you scum here rather than town. But, you want to keep your vote to do a repeat of yesterday, where your vote didn’t matter. You look like scum, act like scum, and talk like scum. That makes you scum! -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 02 2019 02:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Oh here comes the counter push from Koshi and Eywa. Right on cue when I push Branch. You're getting played Jock. ES today: On August 05 2019 03:59 Eversince wrote: I will say though that if you're not mafia then you are probably getting played . -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 04:09 Eversince wrote: You have ES high on lynch. Mafia play 'change your reads' card, not expecting you actually will because of reasons you've plastered all over thread, I die and mafia wins. You got gamed. GG. FUCKING SEE IT. Nope LOL Your play didn’t work because we’re not that retarded. You can WIFOM is but the facts are facts. But keep talking like we are town, as you have done for the past idk however long. We are not moving our vote from you. So again, either kill us with your scumbuddy Pandain, or vote Pandain. Those are your only two choices. Talking this out with us is not helping you at all. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
-J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 04:13 Eversince wrote: 1) You are so wrong. I already said MULTIPLE times I waffle on Pandain LITERALLY EVERY GAME. I don't hard stance on him anymore or I just tunnel him ALL game, bad for town. 2) Thanks I guess? But since I'm not mafia this game I'm kind of disappointing. Either I really suck, your just tunneling me, or you are scum lynching me. 3) I said I wasn't repeating this. Look at my filter I've explained this twice. There will not be a third time. Right, you still waffle on the guy who literally wasted his vote just like scum did, trying to kill Koshi yesterday. Who the fuck cares who that person is, that action should auto-confirm them as scum to you. The difference between you and me right now is that you are pretending to be town and I am not. The facts don’t change and because you don’t know how to play properly you can’t move on from the logic and resort to just yelling the same things louder and louder -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 04:17 Eversince wrote: You're saying Pandain should be confirm scum to me because he "wasted" vote on MZ? Alternative is "wasting" vote off wagon also confirming him as scum? What is this circle logic? Oh you haven’t had enough of scum claiming yet? LOL Yesterday was 4v3. 4 votes to hammer. Pandain left his vote on Koshi ALL DAY. He moved to MZ when it was clear MZ was already dead, then afked. 0 impact on lynching MZ. For the record that equally applies to you. And it applies to MZ too! Cause he voted branch the whole time. Literally the reason we switched to MZ in the first place. We could have switched to Pandain instead of MZ and I bet we’d be having this exact same conversation with the names swapped, with Koshi night killed instead of branch. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 04:37 Pandain wrote: I left my vote on koshi because I was afk not because I thought he was scum at that point And you shared your secondary read of Branch with MZ. Cool. Doesn’t change the fact that your vote was wasted Both you and ES voted in the last 4 hours before deadline when we decided on MZ more than 24 hours before deadline. But hey, afk during LYLO, apparently if scum were smart enough to not bus they could’ve just won right! Cause you would’ve voted whomever the majority was voting I respect your town play a lot, so asking me to townread you here is asking too much of me. I think you’re not as stupid as to really believe that in a situation where you are trying to argue that you are town, and one other player (ES) wasted their vote, you think the best lynch is us instead of auto-scumming ES. Like ES you’ve fallen into the trap of forgetting that this necessarily implies two scum on MZ which makes 0 sense when they could have just had MZ consolidate on ES to begin with. So why is it that neither of you have pieced that part of the puzzle together and vote each other yet? -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 04:57 Koshi wrote: I am 100 posts behind. I'll catch up later It’s okay I solved the game. ES autolocked Eywa and us town. Pandain autolocked you town. Pandain is voting us and ES positioning to vote us (really really insistent that voting last minute is totally normal in LYLO, even though she was happy to vote to kill you instead of Chezinu like halfway into the day on d2) Everything points to you and eywa being town here and mafia just fucking up a winnable d4. If ES were town, MZ would have consolidated on her. If Pandain were town, he wouldn’t have flipped his reads, wasted his vote, and he would auto-scum ES right here instead of voting us based on some flimsy night kill BS. Both of them refusing to vote the other implies they both think that two scum and not one bussed, and they both already eliminated one possibility for scum yet they are still talking as if there are possibilities left. Occam’s razor baby -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 06:17 Eversince wrote: Hmmm... Ok re-previous statement about this. Anti town HERO!! ##vote: Eversince I'm not moving this. Martyr is the new 'cool kid club' anyway! I'm tired of playing with morons who think they are deity tier. I'm say this same damn thing post game right after I flip town and we lose. I'm can work from home tonight but I'm not wasting my night on repeating myself over and over again. Good riddance. GG thanks for hosting Grack Toodles~ I’ve waited for this moment LOL On July 11 2019 07:33 Grackaroni wrote: Voting rules:
Rekt -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
this game is so hilarious Anyway we just have to wait for Eywa. Eywa if you hammer Eversince it prevents her from moving her vote last minute. Either the game ends or we have to lynch Pandain afterward. I actually don’t really care if you hammer or not (Jock might) because I’ve had my fun this game and idgaf about winning/losing -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 05 2019 08:22 Eversince wrote: I miss this but you're going to add my wording to reasons to scum read me? My English isn't the best already so sorry if I use other people's wording? I had said at that point it was between MZ/ Pandain for me regardless. But you go on keeping your ES is totes mafia for bullshit reasons. I'm get a bunch of laughs from it later . We both enjoy game! (ok not so much today because of very obvious reasons) But the fact I think your being a puppet for scum (assuming your not actual scum here) makes me mafia? Pfffft.You know if I had to be completely honest with you it bothers me that there is a tiny chance you could be town. Literally inexplicable if you are though. I’m happy with letting Koshi or Eywa win if that’s the case they would deserve the win far more than we do.I’m chillin in the airport now waiting for my first plane. Got about 18 hours of transit in front of me. My arrival time lines up with deadline I think. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Pandain vote might work better... But then we're just putting off the inevitable ES/eywa argument so I suppose we might as well just get it over with and agree that pandain dies tomorrow if ES flips red. -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
gg everyone. -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
It would have been a coin flip no matter what given how ES played. wp to scum, especially Eywa! -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Play like scum, die like scum. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
-J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 06 2019 05:16 Branch.AUT wrote: Excellent play jock! Espcially when you stepped out of bugs shadow d4, we got a lot done! We should have won. I posted in Bugs and my QT about half hour before the end that the silence in the thread was making me think it was a mislynch, but i didn't have the balls to change the vote at the end in case i was wrong haha. You should play here more often though, and panic less at end of day cos i was fully convinced you were mafia at that point... Also I wouldn't be the newbie anymore I hope I'm scum next time, I'm a much better scum player i think. Playing hydra is awesome. -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
The mafia night kills were a bit bad though because on that day 4 their plan was really obvious. Their night kill of you worked perfectly though. Eversince fell right for it picking up pandain's accusation that he aimed at us and it really made me think she was scum. If that was the mafia plan it was pretty nicely done. -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
10 posts/RL day between 2 people, easy. You don't even have to put anything interesting, just notes. If I'd somehow left clues in there then yeah I can understand it being cheating but I didn't. Next time that's something that should be addressed before the game starts. -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Sorry for continually posting with my jock account and forgetting to sign posts. AND THEY SAY WEED DOESN'T MELT YOUR BRAIN. -J | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Really enjoyed the game Also sorry if I was a bit too harsh on anyone, within the game I of course have strong opinions. Please don’t take anything I say personally and do let me know if I’m being too much of an asshole. Some random thoughts: + Show Spoiler + I have pretty much no regrets this game, the only thing I would change is that I should have leaned much much harder on MZ and Pandain because I gave both players huge passes when they didn’t deserve them, especially day 1. If I had the time or the energy I would have probably tried to derail the Chezinu lynch. I think it would’ve ultimately made no difference though because first 3 cycles was TvT every single time. At LYLO if you are a townie (ahem Eversince) please do not hold your vote till the last moment. idgaf if that’s how you play normally because you are literally signaling that you are either scum or are going to waste your vote and consolidate on whatever wagon that appears which means you are essentially useless for the cycle. This is especially the case because holding your vote for so long is not inclusive, it is not cooperative, and it is an incredibly selfish play; it does not consider the perspectives of the other townies who are trying to figure out your alignment. Your vote is more important than your voice. As an example, if I were solo playing this game, in LYLO I would not be around for the 6-7 hours before deadline because it’s at 5 am. I am only here now because my flight arrived 30 minutes ago and I’m waiting on a bus. In that situation, if a player says they’re going to hold their vote till the end there’s absolutely nothing I can do except park my vote earlier in the day and hope I am right. I am forced to lead on my best scum read (aka I’m now forced to play selfishly too) rather than cooperatively work out what’s best for the entire faction. I believe this applies not just in LYLO but on other days too. Had we started cooperating earlier this game would have been a lot easier. For instance, Koshi’s points on Eywa were all really good. Had we been able to start on that path one cycle earlier it wouldn’t have mattered if ES was low on time, not really understanding what was going on (mixing up day 2 and day 4? Lol) etc. Not being cooperative is also 100% the reason town lynched both rayn and FF, IMO. I think it’s also quite telling that Jock and I took a lot of flak for these lynches even though in the end I don’t believe we really swung them much at all. Our vote on rayn wasn’t even consequential, for instance. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
I’d quote it/paraphrase far more often too. And I’d probably coach Jock much harder rather than letting him basically do his thing and control the vote. As scum for instance I most definitely would not have let Jock cave to HF’s threat. Instead I probably would’ve just turned that wagon on HF. -wherebugsgo | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On August 06 2019 07:34 Eversince wrote: Thanks for hosting Grack!! Sorry guys for giving up at the end. I knew I wasn't going to have time to defend myself and even if I was not lynched I just would of been '?' entire game anyway. So I made executive choice to just take the ML. I wasn't planning on being anywhere as close to as busy as I turned out being so my play this game was basically just trash all around ..I have no personal problem with what you did but just FYI that you did not need to defend yourself at all. You just needed to calm down and read what me and Jock were telling you. Mixing up d2 and d4, waffling on Pandain when he should be 100% scum from your town perspective, waffling on Koshi when he should be 99% town, these are all just straight up mistakes you can only make if you’re checked out and not reading and haven’t properly read almost anything in the game for 72+ hours. Jock and I both even fed you the right answers multiple times and you still didn’t get it. This is the whole reason I even bothered to begin the interactions with you; I personally had Eywa as a possibility of being scum but after 3-4 posts where you continued to show a complete inability to understand even the most basic of things happening I just threw it all out the window and was fine with the vote being left on you. Had you voted Pandain earlier or actually just stopped and read what I was saying even once I would have started to push harder on killing Pandain first because it was technically optimal. We needed Koshi to be present and this is another big reason why you refusing to place your vote is so incredibly anti-town, because the three townies need to work in unison at all times, transcending time zones and all sorts of IRL shit that interferes with that. If you withhold your vote till the last 2 hours like you did almost every cycle (and I believe your vote was 100% inconsequential for every cycle this game) then the simplest answer for anyone without the prior knowledge that you are town is that you are scum. Anyway if you still don’t get why we AND Koshi did what we did, I highly recommend reading our filter from this post onward: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/549650-cupids-arrow-mafia?page=104#2073 Both Jock and I were basically begging you to give us the sign that you are town and you just didn’t do what you needed to. I still have no idea why you were so hung up on Pandain when his actions should have auto confirmed him as scum to you, regardless of who he is. -wherebugsgo | ||
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