[T] Fibonacci Mafia
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Palmar
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I have not read the thread. I am looking for friends. | ||
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On April 06 2019 08:15 Jockmcplop wrote: Isn't that the way you play normally anyway? Holy shit lol | ||
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Also I haven't read rayn's filter, but I found it strange that he basically assumed rayn is town. | ||
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If I'm to accept his posts at face value, I'd have to believe he has found a way to read rayn as town pretty strongly, in addition to believing he has an anti-town (ie: killing townies, because he thinks rayn is town) secondary win condition and in addition that he chose to reveal that win condition. Aside from the fact that secondary win conditions are both rare and terrible, even if Damdred has one his optimal play as town is to just play like town and shut up about it. There is absolutely no benefit for Damdred to reveal having objectives outside of killing mafia as town. I don't believe him. What I think happened is Damdred is positioning himself to play as 3rd party, ie, he wants us to think he's a neutral 3rd party faction. Mafia does this all the time, it's better to be perceived as a 3rd party working on your own objectives than as mafia. Town doesn't have the same problem because it's even better to be perceived as town than 3rd party. I don't believe him, I think he's scum. His best excuse would probably just be that he's trolling and none of this stuff is real. | ||
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On April 07 2019 19:37 Mocsta wrote: Hf Shall we do palmar day1 two games in a row? Way ahead of you, already working under the assumption the combined weight of idiocy is greater than my strength. The only regret I have is hosts should be murdered for starting games on weekends. I really don't have time for this. | ||
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On April 07 2019 21:38 Holyflare wrote: Which posts do you like from Palmar that aren't just rehashes of previously talked about topics? Me saying things is just so much better than other people saying things. Not to mention the fact that you’re probably gonna waffle off all your good reads anyway. | ||
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On April 07 2019 20:17 Mocsta wrote: Secondly, I agree with Palmar that alt-win con should not cloud the thread, yet, he seemingly is oblivious/ignorant that several others, not just Damdred, have raised alt win-con. Did they? I admit I'm far from done with reading through the thread, but which other players have claimed alternative win con? On April 07 2019 20:17 Mocsta wrote: "I don't believe him" , whilst 'true from Palmar PoV' is the easy/lazy position for him to push... you tell me. Is easy/lazy more likely to town!palmar, or scum!palmar. You're missing the point. It's not just that I don't believe his actions make sense, I'm trying to demonstrate that no one should believe him. The case can be summed up in two points. 1) Damdred didn't post anything that looked like reading the game, just mechanics and role stuff. 2) Damdred's role stuff positions him to act as 3p. The only people who GAIN by being perceived as 3p are mafia. | ||
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I would complain he hasn't followed up his VE read at all but he's literally not been in the thread. | ||
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On April 07 2019 22:14 Mocsta wrote: How do you foresee me responding to this? Its all backhand slaps, yeah.... Your first point is so off the mark I'm in shock, and your second point should tend towards a scum read on me. Tell the truth please.. did you even read what I wrote? tbf I wouldn't really blame anyone for mostly skimming your stuff. | ||
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On April 07 2019 22:21 Vivax wrote: MZ wagon doesn't really convince me. Feel like there is a bunch of opportunists hopping on. Naming disfo and Slam. It's kinda scummy that you haven't yet told everyone how smart I am | ||
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On April 07 2019 22:25 Pandain wrote: RE: Damdred Sure, but he hasn't been around since early day 1. That should be expected early day 1 Sure, you're right, but just because it positions him to act as 3p in no way means that he intentionally is aiming for that. You're reading a possible explanation as the most likely explanation. He could have information in his role pm suggesting third parties, or he could just be extrapolating based on what people are saying and the theme of the game. Your defense amounts to "he might post more later" and "he might have meant something else". So vote him and when he shows up suddenly making everything crystal clear we'll just unvote him, right? Great plan Palmar, really good. | ||
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On April 07 2019 22:25 Mocsta wrote: Palmar #731 First ctrl+F i found I noted your points on Damdred, and I just don't think that holds in a closed THEMED game on Day1. At worst he should be put on alert for a Day2 or 3 lynch. Sure, but it seems to me that this one doesn't involve killing people you claim to think are town. Also you said several, show me more please. I don't want to lynch Damdred because he has an alternate win con. I want to kill him because I can't understand the logic from a town point of view in how he deals with it, meaning I don't believe he's telling the truth. | ||
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Pandain says everything will be fine later anyway, so might as well give me my wagon. | ||
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On April 07 2019 22:42 Vivax wrote: Disfos filter feels like 100 % waffle coupled with going for a bunch of people according to sentiment. it's ok though he's gonna be a good sheep and do as I say. | ||
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On April 07 2019 22:43 Holyflare wrote: His nickname is literally wafflemation If you're claiming you made the damdred point before me, maybe stick to it this time? | ||
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On April 07 2019 22:45 disformation wrote: i dont feel like im _that_ waffly this game. @palmar what you think of the m_z stuff? literally not read a single word of it. | ||
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On April 07 2019 22:45 Vivax wrote: Mocsta feels like super dense town at this point. Writing off the Damdred vs rayn thingy so easily is not particularly smart. Probably the most interesting thing in the thread right now. hey we're an inclusive bunch, mocsta is doing the best he can. cruising for that participation award. | ||
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But Pandain betrayed me. He told me damdred would do stuff | ||
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On April 08 2019 00:00 Grackaroni wrote: This basically never happens. I can't think of the last time mafia alluded to having secondary objectives and being a possible 3rd party at the start of the game when they aren't already under threat of being lynched. Especially in the way he says, intentionally planned to try to lay low and avoid getting negative attention. Terrible start for Palmar imo. I’m just gonna claim having played 5x more mafia than you do I know better. | ||
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On April 08 2019 05:07 Mig wrote: Why is sentinel a good lynch? Is there anything scummy about him? Or are you just wanting to lynch the least active people? Yes | ||
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He actually has a history of being useful in day 1. Even if you don't agree with me on the "he's positioning himself to claim 3p and is thus mafia" thing, the other reasons are plenty fine to kill him. | ||
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On April 08 2019 05:52 disformation wrote: @hf why not damdred? you think your differentiation will solve that problem? hf doesn't like lynching scum day 1. It's kinda his thing to do stupid shit. | ||
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On April 08 2019 05:55 Fecalfeast wrote: does anyone else on the MZ wagon still think he's mafia because reading what I missed I don't really anymore. I'll follow onto damdred if you look at jockmcplop to be fair jock is town for calling holyflare shit. | ||
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On April 08 2019 05:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Meeehhh...it just feels like it could be resistance to a mafia lynch. Nah I'm stick it out for now. Palmar is at his worst D1 don't listen to his LIES. Towny post | ||
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No it isn't. Stop being mad you can't scumhunt on day 1. | ||
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On April 08 2019 19:54 KelsierSC wrote: Agree. I love damdred but he's never a d1 phenom He's one of the best Day 1 players on the site when he tries. On February 02 2015 03:27 Palmar wrote: I am enchanted by your grandiose words, by your burly manliness, by your unwavering confidence and your courage. If by my life or death I can protect you, I will. You have my sword. This is one of the best day 1 cases in the history of TL mafia. It's not often I get this convinced by a case. I sometimes read it when I feel anxious about TL Mafia stupidity and it calms me. I know somewhere out there... no matter how far, there is intelligence. We lynched Eden. He was mafia. | ||
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On April 08 2019 20:13 Holyflare wrote: At least 3 people just told you the opposite. Grow up. A flock of people saying stupid shit doesn't make it right. | ||
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I mean, you just lynched town so not sure why you're questioning my methods. | ||
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On April 08 2019 20:22 disformation wrote: yeah, damdred can be really good as town day 1 and i was hoping he would come back and crap a twon rainbow all over the thread and make the game easier. so i agree that he has done 0 scum hunting d1. but ive also see him be afk as fuck as town. so he has both a history of being very good d1 and being afk as fuck d1. so your statement is not false, but you leave out 50% of the story. afk is only part of the problem. If you want newer meta: we literally just played a game where I townread damdred pretty fast. https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/542541-end-of-the-world-party-mafia?user=Damdred Just look at his first 10-15 posts. Yes his reads aren't really explained but he's actually worried about people's alignment. He throws out townreads and is talking about who to kill. Then look at this game. Aside from the implied town read on rayn I don't think there's anything about anyone. And stop trying to boil my case down to one thing. I don't like how he has not talked about anything alignment indicative. I don't like how he has positioned himself to be a 3rd party. I don't like how he assumed rayn was town without explaining it. I don't like that he's been afk throughout the game. Mafia is a game of odds. You lynch the people who have the highest chance to flip mafia. Not the people you dislike or the people you are afraid of getting beaten by. I have pretty good reasons for calling Damdred mafia. But alas, I think I'm dropping the Damdred thing for tonight. I've made my case exceptionally clear and I can't lynch anyone tonight. It's gonna be more productive to talk about other shit. | ||
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On April 08 2019 20:31 KelsierSC wrote: I agree that damdred used to be a very good d1 player. However that was a long time ago. Admittedly there have been fewer games in recent years and I've played in few of those but my impression of damdred now is that he disappears for full phases and misses votes etc. So I let him do his own thing and then he wins or loses. If your meta read is based on him being an active player d1 who makes good case then I'd just have to disagree. Not sure if you are lying or just using an outdated read No, that's not my read, I was just telling you you were wrong. Can you just slow down for a sec and actually read? | ||
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Wonder where we've seen sentinel hide behind a gimmick as mafia before? Also, his last minute voteswitch has a few implications. Did he know he was too late? Clocks aren't a hard thing to work. I always find it very unrealistic people miss deadlines accidentally. Or maybe I'm just wrong on Damdred. Who knows | ||
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It's also pretty likely the people who voted with me on Damdred are basically all or mostly town. | ||
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On April 08 2019 20:50 Jockmcplop wrote: Palmar did you have any reads on anyone except Damdred? Yeah, I can make a list Townreads tubesock Weak town eywa pandain Jock FF disfo tumblewood No idea/haven't read Grack rayn VE KelsierSC LS Mocsta Don't read on principle HF Slam maybe mafia Mig Vivax scumreads Damdred Sentinel | ||
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On April 08 2019 20:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am like 90% sure Damdred can't be mafia. Based on roles or reads? | ||
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I also very often randomly assign some mafias townreads for like stupid little things so don't just lynch up my list but still. I think I have a grasp of the game. | ||
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On April 08 2019 21:01 Jockmcplop wrote: So Palmar you think we should be pushing to get rid of lurkers and low activity players? I would agree with that actually. Sent looks undeniably scummy. Yes, of course. Vigis need to shoot into the trash, because the trash will not become more readable as the game goes on. The same reason you take out trash with the Day 1 lynch. It is greatly advantageous to town if every player in the game is talking and interacting. Now, on day 2 there might be information based on night actions and flips so far, so that's when you should start thinking about lynching higher activity mafia if we have good cases or evidence. Defaulting to lynching a lurker on day 2 is fine, but it's not like day 1 with no information. You should be trying to lynch scum wherever you can find it on day 2. | ||
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On April 08 2019 21:00 Jockmcplop wrote: Oh ok sorry didn't see that. Its a valid point though mocsta looks a little bit scummy from that imo. I really like Tubesock's filter. His take on Mocsta was pretty good. On April 08 2019 03:28 Tubesock wrote: I’m townreading Mocsta. Mostly for his entrance and when he talked to me. Yes wanting to lynch town to get rid of headache is bad. I think I’d have to search a lot of games to find one where a mafia said that though. To me it’s NAI. I need to actually read Mocsta's filter before making a conclusion but he was also talking shit to me during the day which didn't sound malicious, just a bit daft. | ||
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Not doing anything today | ||
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Yes I don’t get it though. | ||
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Should this be public info? I have not read anything so I have no context | ||
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The man you seek is amongst those who voted for Damdred in the final vote count. Your faithful PI | ||
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It’s not, but why? | ||
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I think it's kinda scummy HF immediately accused me of lying about my PM. I don't know how or why I would lie about it even if I was mafia. I don't know how having that PM benefits me as either alignment. What I do know is I didn't lie and that was completely uncalled for shitflinging by HF. Other than that I have no new reads. Can someone just... explain what's going on? | ||
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No alternate win condition, only with town. I can protect a person from being recruited by any faction at night. | ||
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On April 10 2019 19:21 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh ya don't forget to change y'alls bookmarks, we're tl.net now! yeah it's great, blocked as "pornography" here at work. | ||
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On April 10 2019 19:48 VisceraEyes wrote: It's a "Gambling Site" here. Like, and who do you even talk to about that shit? Well in my case I just unblock it, I'm the network engineer at this place. I protected rayn with my thing. I don't get any confirmation if it did anything. The role seems underwhelming in general. | ||
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Cult + at least 2 town factions? | ||
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Actually probably likely. | ||
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I was really hoping someone would just summarize all the role stuff so I can focus on actually playing mafia and not whatever this role thing is. | ||
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Role != alignment. We could very well be dealing with parts of these people who have claimed as mafia. | ||
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On April 10 2019 20:52 disformation wrote: Summary attempt for pslmar: Sub game 1: Hindu/Arab Vs Rome Each of the two have 1 assassin, 1 recruiter, 2 maths guys Assassin needs to kill the recruiter of the opposite faction. Recruiter needs to get the maths guys of his faction into a at. Maths guys need to get into the qt and or remove the entire opposing faction. Note: assassin's get bullets refunded if they hit the opposite faction. See m_z role. Arab/Hindu: damdy, ls, m_z, eywa Romans: rayn, mocsta, slam, ff Ff shot ls. Mocsta tried to recruit rayn, cause you prevented that. [Hr] Sub game 2: math love triangle Fibonacci wants to bone Pythagoras. Euclid wants to bone Fibonacci and Pythagoras wants to bone Fibonacci. If a pair bones they win and get removed from the game. Each of the 3 has an Investigator who is helping them out. You got one of the Investigator messages. Fibbers is Mig. Pytha is HF. Euclid is TW. Helpers: VE, Pandain, Disco Additionally there is an Inquisitor who needs to prevent the maths guys from boneing cause the Cath Church hates boneing. That is tubesock and he claimed to be 3rd Party with a soup kill ability. Also claimed to have busdriven HF and eywa during the night. Since eywa died we know someone tried to shoot HF and eywa got my message cause I wanted to sent it to hf. Jockmcplop had an anti inquisitor role. [Hr] Ksc removed Grack (probably temporarily) from the game and is in a at with grack. Ksc claims his win con is to separate two lovers from each other. You claimed diplomat. Vivax and Grack haven't claimed yet imo. We have 2kp unaccounted for. Prolly 1 convert and the lover(s) are missing. So far it looks like all ppl in subgame 1 and 2 started as town. This is an excellent summary. So I actually accomplished something... was it good? | ||
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Aside from all the role stuff dude is playing like mafia. | ||
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On April 10 2019 23:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Not sure, depends on if the romans are mafia or not. There's debate about that. I share the opinion that there are 1-2 mafia interspersed into the "teams" and it all depends on your read of rayn on whether that was good or bad. I was always just gonna protect a "big name", figured those are the most likely targets for recruits of any alignment. Couldn't protect myself. | ||
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I like that. HF is a pretty good candidate for mafia. There is absolutely no reason to question the PM I received yet he immediately called it a lie. | ||
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Another player that's good to get rid of. I guess he's just afk and unable to play, but we'd probably have had to lynch him at some point anyway. | ||
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I'm not sure I have the energy to take this fight today but fucking hell it's going to be a pain in the ass. | ||
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If you all are not changing your mind about lynching me and can shoot me it might be better, although assuming mafia kills 2 or something we might actually not have enough time left to do something. It's almost certain we have 2 mafia left, possibly 3 because it appears Grack got converted. This seems to be a swing mechanic so assuming normal balance, 4-ish mafia, it's very likely that it swung to 5 mafia. If I die + 2 night kills it's going to be 4v3. If there's an additional recruitment mechanic it might be gg but I kinda doubt that would be the case as swinging to 6 mafia i just broken. It's pretty obvious I'm getting screwed by an anti-massclaim mechanic (tubesock's role was an anti-massclaim mechanic too). Either mafia has dual roles, or was provided with fake claims. Both are quite likely. Can't even blame the hosts, this just town being dumb. | ||
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We have only flipped one person that started out as mafia (assuming converted means converted). The chance of there being only 1 mafia left is extremely, extremely slim. I'd like to point out that Vivax had a very, very clear anti-massclaim role. He had the exact same role name as a townie (Grack). It should be quite obvious the same thing is going on with my role. Hell, why the fuck would I claim diplomat if Vivax, my mafia bro, has a role that says there is a mafia diplomat. Do yall think I'm retarded? I wouldn't mind being jailed, that's fine, but I'd like to participate. Can Kelsier communicate with me if I'm jailed? | ||
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On April 11 2019 18:22 Pandain wrote: Anyway the diplomat thing is not even the main reason you are being lynched. You've done absolutely nothing this game and no real scumhunting. Even this post doesn't push towards anyone, it's just defense. Mafia had a huge incentive to not vote Vivax (as they would lose two people). This makes it extremely likely that Fecalfeast, slam, dis, and especially me (as the final and definitive vote) are town. It also makes the last scum (or two) almost certainly among Mocsta, Palmar, VE, Kelsier, and Rayn. I have probably done more actual scumhunting than most of the people in this game. Thing is I hate role bullshit, so I haven't really taken part in that. On April 11 2019 18:22 Pandain wrote: Of these, you are by far the best choice. You claimed a role title that is literally referenced in another post as mafia. You voted Sentinel and not Vivax, and have failed to really do anything on any day so far. This was the extent of your reasoning on Sentinel. But... On April 08 2019 20:43 Palmar wrote: Sentinel had a bit going into the game and kept with it for way too long, to the point he did nothing useful on day 1 because he was doing his bit. Wonder where we've seen sentinel hide behind a gimmick as mafia before? Also, his last minute voteswitch has a few implications. Did he know he was too late? Clocks aren't a hard thing to work. I always find it very unrealistic people miss deadlines accidentally. Or maybe I'm just wrong on Damdred. Who knows You missed my actual reason for wanting to kill him. I actually think he's still very likely to flip mafia. The lack of enthusiasm by mafia might actually be explained by the fact that the top two votes were both scum. On April 11 2019 18:22 Pandain wrote: You clearly don't really care about this game because you haven't had anything meaningful to say regarding lynches on Day 1 or Day 2. Whether that's because you're sick or afk or busy or mafia, it's uncertain. But it's a big red flag in your play. So if you get lynched, it's because the signs lead here. I'm not even certain you are the best lynch, I'll look into Kelsier and VE and Mocsta. But you're a great lynch. I'm never active on weekends as basically everyone here knows (use the search function). Last game was my first game in a long time and huge game so I was really into playing. I also just happened to I did care about the lynch on day 1, I pushed for my lynch and wasn't far from getting him actually lynched. Like you're skewing history quite badly if you think I didn't care there. The wagon I created and pushed literally tied with the leading wagon. Yes I was wrong, but it was still a good push ( I couldn't possibly have known he would get modkilled back then, it looked really bad ). Day 2 was a bit different, I just don't have much interest in setup speculation and figuring out things based on roles. It's one of the things I don't enjoy in mafia. So I just voted whoever I thought (and still think) is mafia based on scumhunting. I was only out sick on tuesday. That excuse doesn't cover any other days. Everything else is just a combination of "this is how I play" and slight lack of motivation because I find mass claiming and figuring out games based on roles boring. I like scumhunting, not doing host wifom and setup speculation. | ||
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On April 11 2019 18:39 Pandain wrote: What do you think about the last mafia (or two) being between VE, Kelsier, and Mocsta (excluding you since you will work on the assumption you're town) Of the people left, I either have current, or lingering since day 1 townreads on disfo, you, ff, ve. Maybe mocsta Rest I'm not sure. I think Sentinel looks bad. I never have any idea bout slam. rayn feels a little bit off, his impact of the game feels really low, but it's possible he, like me, just hates setup stuff. I haven't bothered reading anything by Ksc so maybe he's just mafia because his posts are boring. I'm also not super confident in all my townreads. but it's my current view. Thankfully, people are going to try to kill me tomorrow, so that'll make it pretty easy for me to tell whose heart is actually in it and who's just along for the ride | ||
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Pretty sure it's not allowed to quote full role pms. Seems like very few if anyone else is actually from Pisa | ||
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The only problem with that explanation is why the fuck would mafia recruit their lover, knowing both will die if one dies. | ||
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On April 15 2019 06:27 rsoultin wrote: So the reason the roles were so non-standard and could target other townies was that all of those roles could still become mafia. And it would give town tools against mafia later in the game theoretically. Obviously that's not how the game played out lol >< Yeah that was never going to work. Townies fucking love claiming their roles. You really need to account for mass claiming. Repeated recruiting is way too strong for mafia. Recruiting mechanisms need to be capped at like 1 person. | ||
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On April 15 2019 20:53 Mocsta wrote: Thanks for hosting anyways Execution was smooth And yeah. Twas themed. So meh Should lynched palmar day1 as per my aweaome case You don't get to claim an awesome case unless you read me correctly as town last game and mafia this one. So no prize for you my friend. Calling me mafia every game until you're right is not an achievement. | ||
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On April 16 2019 07:15 Mocsta wrote: Your perception of events is an over stretch by some margin mr palmar. I appreciate your contribution though. Im curious: Why RB me? Was my role that obvious? Bro I can't even remember. I don't really think things through. It's ok, next time, call my alignment correctly when you're town and I'll give you back the credit. | ||
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