[M][N] Medic Mafia
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Tubesock
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I like the idea of the coordinating medic shot via vote. A lot more information. I am not sure about the mass claiming bit D2 though. I think it would be better for town to have the medics be unknown for a couple cycles before they claim. | ||
Tubesock
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On March 06 2018 09:11 Fecalfeast wrote: Honestly hf claiming a role doesn't mean anything he fakes as town or mafia agreed, I think he would claim just as easily as town medic as he would mafia. | ||
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On March 06 2018 09:56 Damdred wrote: Do you have any opinions on anyone yet Tubesock? Nothing yet, but your idea about medic coordination I think is pro town so you can be in the townpile. | ||
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On March 06 2018 11:09 n00bKing wrote: What are you "agreeing" with? Because what Fecalfeast said and what you said are NOT the same. I agree that HF can fakeclaim as either alignment, that I don't believe that him claiming should be alignment indicative in any way. I actually think he IS medic but he's town just as easily as mafia. | ||
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On March 06 2018 11:26 n00bKing wrote: I can start telling you that you suck at this game, if that'll help. You'll have to go somewhere else for the rest of that, though. I dunno, the pre-game discussion sounds to me like people are talking about mass claiming early game and not late game. And now I can't ask them to clarify what they meant, because they either aren't in the game or I can no longer trust them to tell me the truth about it. But speaking of the pre-game discussion, now that I've read through it again, it occurs to me that I don't even know for sure what the setup for the game IS. We had this: and then this: and then that was it. So was the setup changed? Am I allowed to ask the Narrator to tell us whether the setup changed? Because if the setup isn't as town-favored as it was initially, that will definitely change my strategy. Didn't you just chastise me for talking about mass claiming strategy? And here you are talking about setup and strategy. Your hypocrisy is delicious. | ||
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On March 06 2018 12:51 n00bKing wrote: Alright, thanks for making that clear. Because obviously there's a ton of difference between Fecalfeast saying "he fakes as town or mafia" and you saying "he would claim just as easily as town medic as he would mafia." I must be obtuse. I don't get why it's all that different in the context "is HolyFlare town for claiming" between "he fakes as town or mafia" or "he would claim just as easily as town medic as he would mafia"? Although, I meant to add "mafia medic" in there. What obvious difference do you see? The only difference I see is I don't think he's lying. We just don't know if he's town or mafia medic. | ||
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On March 06 2018 13:59 AMG wrote: He did not chastise you at all. Why are you so pricky? What's wrong with being prickly/pricky? Do you think he's right? Should we not talk about mass claiming D2? Is there a difference of talking about mass claiming and the timing of it? Does anyone actually think the medics shouldn't EVER mass claim? So, obviously if you are going to discuss strategy you will be talking about the timing. I didn't like him saying "talking about D2 claim is a distraction" and then he goes back to talking about mass claiming. It's scummy to try to shut down discussion especially when nothing else is going on. He may not have said "mass claim" but he was refering to pregame conversation which was about mass claiming. | ||
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On March 06 2018 15:18 n00bKing wrote: The obvious difference is that Fecalfeast said HF makes fake claims as both Town and Mafia, while you said that HF could just as easily make the claim as Town medic or Mafia. If he makes the claim as Town medic, it's not FAKE. So what you did is take something Fecalfeast said, twisted it into something he DIDN'T say, and then "agreed" with it. That's why I forced you into telling us whether or not you agree with what he ACTUALLY said, and not just what you ACTED like he said. You told me you do agree with what he actually said, so I thanked you for your answer. I didn't twist anything. They're two separate statements. HF can fakeclaim as town too if he's vanilla.... Feel free to respond to my post towards AMG. I'm down. I'll be up for a couple more hours yet. | ||
Tubesock
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On March 06 2018 15:55 n00bKing wrote: That's the point! They're two separate statements! So when he says what he said, and you quote it and say "agreed," followed by what you said, that's like someone saying "Tuesday is the best day of the week" and a 2nd person quoting it and responding with "Agreed, today is Tuesday." Those aren't the same thing. Are they agreeing with the 1st statement and also adding a 2nd statement? Did they misunderstand the 1st statement? Are they misrepresenting the 1st statement to mean something it didn't? (this one is what it looks like to me at first glance). So I made you take a stance on whether you agreed with his original statement. That removes the option for you to later say you "just misunderstood." That would be HUGELY important if HF were to later flip Red, because it would offer tons of context on whether you were trying to protect him. You've clarified that you agree with the original statement, were also adding a 2nd statement, so I have my answer, and we can move on. Make sense? Sounds good, thanks for clarifying. | ||
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On March 06 2018 15:57 rsoultin wrote: Hi moosy! Kinda bored with the setup talk. Ian (Damdred) is giving me scum vibes. Anyone you want to talk about? What don't you like? I like the idea of having a second medic vote, so that's the singular reason I gave him town points. I'm terrible at reading tone, lol so am I right in saying you have a tone read on him? | ||
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On March 06 2018 16:09 rsoultin wrote: Less tone and more not contributing anything. And no I don't count suggesting the optimal strategy both hf and I pointed out pre-game as a contribution. <- Also thought someone else made that anyway but yeah. It doesn't substantially change my read. Hf and I were going to push that strat anyway so weaksauce. You're not wrong. I guess I'm giving Damdy slack since I think the only person who's done anything was n00bking. I don't count HF due to NAIness of what he did. | ||
Tubesock
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On March 06 2018 16:17 n00bKing wrote: Eh, maybe. A true "scumslip" like that is pretty darn rare though. I'd be more interested in hearing whether anyone with prior history with Tubesock in games thinks its unusual for him to immediately take the claim at face value. Him "making nice" with the first person to claim medic may or may not be alignment-indicative for someone, depending on their personality. Anybody know him? You do realize that I think HF is either town medic or mafia medic.....how is that making nice? | ||
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On March 06 2018 16:22 rsoultin wrote: I honestly don't remember his play well enough, sadly. I don't really find it noteworthy though. Especially with four out of thirteen players being medic it's just whatever for someone to say they find a claim believable imo. To be fair, it's been probably over two years since we played together. So even if you did remember my play, it's doubtful the same. For either of us. | ||
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On March 06 2018 08:47 Holyflare wrote: I'm a medic. Uhm...you called you a medic.... | ||
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On March 06 2018 16:30 Holyflare wrote: Yes and as noobking says someone said I can do that as either alignment or any role but you have specifically said I'm a medic. There's a big difference from saying what I said means nothing to saying what I said means I am medic but either alignment. It appears like you know I'm medic but then add a hedge on top as a "oh I don't know" to fit in. It's a weird thought process comparatively to hf can be anything. lol ok. In this instance I think you are capable of making a medic claim in any situation. Fake, real, mafia, or town and any combination. I also think that it's probably true but I don't have any idea if it's town medic or mafia medic. You can certainly lynch me for that if you want to, but seems silly to me. | ||
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On March 06 2018 16:36 Holyflare wrote: A town thought process: hf claimed medic but it means absolutely nothing. A mafia though process: hf claimed medic shit let's make a post about it since it's a main topic. Oh, he's town so telling the truth based on what he said pre-game. Oh, better throw in a hedge and call him mafia medic though. Doesn't look right to me. To be fair, i only said it meant nothing in regards to your alignment. Not absolutely nothing as in no information whatsoever. | ||
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On March 06 2018 16:40 MoosyDoosy wrote: Wait so are you saying you think he's medic or he's not? This post is really confusing I believe his claim is true. You do know there is a mafia medic right? and 3 town ones? | ||
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On March 06 2018 16:45 AMG wrote: Tubesock, I implied you were mafia by your reaction and said someone you thought was scummy was almost certainly town.. you dont think either of those warrants further investigation or a response? Nope. I think the idea that only scum get salty is hilarious. You also don't seem to understand why I was "pricky". Do you understand what I didn't like about n00bking? | ||
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On March 06 2018 16:49 n00bKing wrote: Cuz 75% of the medics are town. If someone says they're a medic and you immediately are like "yeah, I believe him" then if you're scum and believe HF to be one of the stronger town players, it could be an attempt to make him feel like he has an ally in you. You also instantly put damdred in your "town pile" for reasons that are...not real strong. Due to those things, it would be good if someone who knows your history could tell us whether you're someone who tends to randomly take claims at face value (as opposed to someone who is generally skeptical of them) and whether you're someone who tends to try and buddy up to notable Town players when you're Scum. No one knows me on here. I play 4 games a year. Well that's a lie kinda, last couple years I played probably twice. I guess you could look back on my previous games (not all appear though). If I were scum, I'd just avoid Holyflare and kill him at night. Although I have gotten in two shitfights with him as mafia. So, what are your thoughts about his claim? I just don't think there's much of a reason to fake claim. As either mafia or town it sets up plays which i think HF is all about. town/mafia he claims early and has a better chance of controlling the night kill to who he wants. I'm having a difficult time thinking of a reason that's plausible to fake claim. | ||
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On March 06 2018 17:01 rsoultin wrote: :/ I'm a bit sad I'm not getting more lynch Damdred support. Like the pressure on tubesock though so I'm going to try not to sulk too obstructively. I agree with AMG. It's almost like you don't care to get a read on someone with an opposite opinion of you, tubesock. I don't think I'd get anything out of a conversation with AMG. Prickly players only scum? That's certainly not my experience at all so we don't have common ground there. And I was more interested in n00bking. Which I'm still deciding on. I still don't like hypocrisy. I think his nitpicking is his way of digging deep for more understanding so I think it's towny. | ||
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On March 06 2018 17:16 n00bKing wrote: When you were mafia or when he was mafia? I don't think anything about it yet. People say he makes fake claims as either allegiance. I was mafia. | ||
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On March 07 2018 05:50 AMG wrote: I'm trying to wrap my head around what you took issue with with n00bking prior to this post. He says talking strategy is fine early, and he does so, but discussing a d2 mass claim is a discussion better had on day 2, I assume, because there are still things to unfold before day 2, I.e the lynch and the night actions. I don't see hypocracy or inconsistency in what n00bking is saying. Since this happened and there's been a pretty big pushback on your attempt to cast shade on him, you're now townreading him because he's too nitpicky with finer details, so he's now town. Is that an accurate summation of your read progression on n00bking? And now if noobking is town, where to from here, who is your next prime suspect? This is what I said: On March 06 2018 09:15 Tubesock wrote: Hola I like the idea of the coordinating medic shot via vote. A lot more information. I am not sure about the mass claiming bit D2 though. I think it would be better for town to have the medics be unknown for a couple cycles before they claim. It was more a response to Fecalfeast's idea of mass claiming D2, but it also advises town what I think town should do concerning mass claiming. In fact I wasn't specific because I understand the reality that when things change town players will start thinking it's a good idea/time and then it will present itself. The sentence prior even shows uncertainty about D2 claiming which would indicate I'm open to it if the conditions are right. So, he then zeros in on my D2 comment and is just "No discussion of D2" and then goes on about the setup and pregame conversation. Like he nitpicked 1 thing, and ignored the rest. I don't think he thought about my post. I thought that was scummy. Like I don't think wanting to just talk about D1 mass claiming is inconsistent. But my post answers that question also, so he wasn't really looking to talk about it. Like he wanted to PUSH the mass claim D1. He even later tries to throw shade on Holyflare for shutting down claim talk. Clearly people are not into claiming D1. As far as the nitpicky bit goes. In my experience, I'll say something weird and then people jump on my ass for it. Then a mafia sees thread sentiment and nitpicks to "lead" the charge. In this case I think n00b did that first so wasn't following thread sentiment. So, he's acting more like a Rels used to, rather than an opportunistic mafiosa. | ||
Tubesock
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It'll probably end up killing me, but I think with Vivax we should wait for him to see if he does his 3 posts to remain "active" which would basically guarantee him being mafia (unless they're great posts) or he gets modkilled. I won't be voting for rsoul, HF, prplz, moose, or Damdred. | ||
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On March 07 2018 10:33 Holyflare wrote: why not me when all I've done is claim medic and effectively try and lynch you and afk? I want to see how your plan goes. | ||
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On March 07 2018 10:35 MoosyDoosy wrote: Also do you have anything at all Tube? Arguments, defense, possible list of scum...? Did I not just post something that answers all that? | ||
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On March 07 2018 10:40 AMG wrote: You're advising a wait and see approach to the only counterwagon to yourself? Interesting. What do you like about prplhz filter? I like that he lightly defended me. | ||
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On March 07 2018 11:02 MoosyDoosy wrote: Hm. Do something productive Tubesock. I want to see AMG's response to my question and will be back in a few to post what I think about this. Why would a mafia Rsoultin try to start a wagon on Damdred? Shouldn't she be doing whatever it is she thinks that Damdred would town her for? I thought I saw you post something about her buttering him up? But that's not how I thought it went. Am I wrong? | ||
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On March 07 2018 11:12 AMG wrote: Hes not squirming like mafia do. That and hes advocating a 'wait and see' approach on the only other wagon to himself.... which is a person who hasn't even posted yet. From that Ill extrapolate that they're either mafia together, or Tubesock isn't mafia. Mafia are chucking an AFK townie under the bus there. . Does this mean you think Fecalfeast is mafia? (I'm assuming not Rsoultin since you already towned her?) Or are you speaking generally? | ||
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Moosy, do you have any scum reads outside of me? Like I'm pretty sure I'm an easy scumread since the majority of the thread scums me.... | ||
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On March 07 2018 11:06 Tubesock wrote: Why would a mafia Rsoultin try to start a wagon on Damdred? Shouldn't she be doing whatever it is she thinks that Damdred would town her for? I thought I saw you post something about her buttering him up? But that's not how I thought it went. Am I wrong? | ||
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On March 07 2018 12:20 MoosyDoosy wrote: Also, I didn't think you were grasping at straws to scum AMG, I'm thinking you're grasping at straws to scum Fecal or anyone you can to get in with alignment with AMG who's thrown you the first life rope. To some extent, shouldn't I be doing whatever I can to find an alternative wagon? you even say "Tubesock do something productive" so isn't looking for another wagon outside of me "productive"? | ||
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The issue I have with the metagame thing is it's so coinflippy. TownRsou would do that, and I'd accept mafiaRsou would do that. Why isn't it NAI? I think she's town because she's broadening discussion without stifling it. I don't see any motivation for mafia to do that. | ||
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On March 07 2018 12:36 MoosyDoosy wrote: Are you even reading the quotes I'm linking...? I asked that and I asked this: Because I wanted to see what you would do. And while I agree with what others have said in that your tone has gotten better, you look like you're effectively just throwing shit at the wall trying to see if it will stick instead of actually trying. Instead of actually searching for Mafia, it looks like you're trying to get on the same page with AMG to cater to him because he offered you a life rope. Instead of reading the quotes I linked you, you're asking me a question which I answer in said quotes where I specifically ask for feedback. Instead of not asking me the same question someone already has (n00bKing) and which I've addressed with someone else (Fecalfeast), you ask me it again. I doubt you're actually trying and while your posts entering were tonally good, it reads to me atm like you're just trying to get anything to stick. maybe I'll try to be more clear. 1. You scumread Rsoultin due to tinfoil that scumRsoultin would know that she should scum Damdred a little bit so he will townread her. Also asking for feedback. Is that correct so far? 2. I respond with "The issue I have with the metagame thing is it's so coinflippy. TownRsou would do that, and I'd accept mafiaRsou would do that. Why isn't it NAI?" Giving you feedback that I think it could be town rsoultin or mafia rsoultin. Then ask you why do you think it's not NAI since you obviously don't, I'm requesting more detail because what you posted so far wasn't enough. 3. I also say I townread Rsoultin for broadening discussion (moving it from me) without stifling it (not preventing anyone from saying their piece concerning me)". Do you have a response why mafia Rsoultin would do that? Like, she COULD but I don't think she would try enough to be effective at it. But she succeeded in getting another wagon started and moved the discussion from strategy/setup and me, to other reads on other people. Mafia Rsoultin could have made the token attempt and fizzled out easier without succeeding. 4. I don't even know how to respond to the aligning with AMG accusation. 5. You asked if I had arguments, points, or scumreads, but in the two of my posts before that I answered what I could already. I feel like I've only been defending, and I've already stated I don't have any scumreads. | ||
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On March 07 2018 12:39 MoosyDoosy wrote: Add this question too to the list of things Tube seems like he's just throwing out trying to make stick. I'm going to leave to finish my essay I actually have to do by tonight but I want feedback from other people on what they think. If anyone legitimately wants me to explain this read though also, just say so and I will when I get back. What exactly am I trying to make stick? At that point I already townread Damdred, so now you think I'm trying to see if I can scum him by asking why you townread him for this comment? I read it as either townDamdred excited for whatever HF has up his sleeve, and that confidence that HF won't "save" him. Could also be scumDamdred excited to know 1 medic and that it's HF so the night action might be a little easier. To me it's NAI. So, I'd like to hear why you think it's the one thing that makes Damdred town. | ||
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On March 07 2018 05:57 MoosyDoosy wrote: Metagame. Damdred said this is what he'd expect from town rsoultin so she might be doing it as scum to make him she's town. I might be getting super tinfoily here which is why I'm asking for feedback. On March 07 2018 05:48 MoosyDoosy wrote: If anything, rsoultin changes her reads to conform to Damdred's over time. Considering how hard Damdred townread rsoultin I think she's metagaming him to seem townie and working around his reads because she knows he can read her. I didn't see the FecalFeast response. But are these the quotes? I don't see how the hardness of Damdred's read is relevant to Rsoultins alignment. Sure, it speaks to the success of the metagame sure but you are not answering why town Rsoultin wouldn't do the same thing? If Rsoultin as town acts X way, wouldn't it stand to reason she would do X regardless of Damdred's expectation? I didn't have any problems with her changing of reads. I don't think it aligned with Damdred since he didn't exactly leave a bunch. Why wouldn't she try to align with you since you are making a big deal about soulreading? You also remarked how you thought exactly the same as her concerning me. So, doesn't seem you're entirely on different planets. Like you and I are on different planets for sure. AMG also. Doesn't really make for mafia though. Which led me to asking you why you townread Damdred. The only thing I saw was the post I already pointed out and asked about. Cause it's a little weird that you are hard towning Damdred for very little. For your tinfoil to work, Damdred must be town...so you obviously are hard towning him. So, what did I miss about that "Good man, it won't be me (it was)" speak to you so deeply? | ||
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On March 07 2018 14:58 n00bKing wrote: Yeah...I really "zeroed in" on your D2 comment....your post was 3 lines long, and one of the lines was "Hola." Then one of the lines was what I considered to be simple common sense, and didn't really need stating. Sorry for not quoting the part I thought was common sense and saying "Look at this, this is common sense!" So yeah, I focused on 1 thing, and ignored the rest. I focused on the 1 thing I actually thought needed anything said about it. Think that's pretty normal. And I didn't "throw shade" at HF for trying to shut down the claim conversation. I only said that anyone who has something to say about it should still do so, and not let themselves be silenced by him. How is it that you've come back and made more posts, without responding to the post where I went from just talking with you, to actually voting against you? I've already expressed that I didn't love the fact that the moment you switched from answering each post that came in, to disappearing for 16 hours or whatever it was, was also the moment I went from just having a conversation with you, to actually putting a vote on you. Could that have just been coincidence? Yeah, maybe. But it doesn't look like it, when upon your return to the thread, you STILL never acknowledge that post in any way, shape, or form. Did that part of Page 12 just magically escape your notice? "splain yourself." Lol, I already said why I didn’t interact with AMG at first and even he later said I’m not coherent In any way so clearly it isn’t just me. Maybe at the time I didn’t have the energy because I was doing something else too? As for 16 hours afk. Hahahaha think of two activities that generally use up 8 hours at a time. My sincere apologies that my gaming time doesn’t align with your desires your highness. | ||
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And frankly, I’m not asking for permission to leave the thread. If you want to read into the timing that’s all you. | ||
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On March 07 2018 15:58 n00bKing wrote: It wasn't clear to ME that I was going to vote against you, until you made the post that I identified as being the one that actually caused me to place the vote. lol, guess we'll see, huh? Meanwhile, you're still not answering the question. Third time: In addition to not wanting to talk to AMG about whether it's scum-indicative for players to be prickly, why did you also not want to talk to him about me, the thing you claimed to be "more interested in" at the time, and a topic where you knew he had a differing opinion? Why would you not want to bounce your thoughts about me off of other players, unless you already knew my allegiance? I didn’t think it would be a beneficial conversation. While I will bounce off ideas with people I trust, I generally talk with people to get a read on them not the subject of the conversation. While even asking him to clarify things about you, they would not likely change or affect my read on you. Especially considering AMG’s and my differences. And I didn’t think what he said would offer me any insights on him. Take FecalFeast as an example. I have no idea about his alignment and it’s obvious others are similiar. But trying to interact with him has a very low probability of gainful insight. On his alignment or whoever we talk about. So you should scum me for not interacting with FF also but it’s basically the same. And Darthfolley probably. And HF to some extent also. That’s going to have to be enough for you cause that’s all you’re trying. | ||
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HF has said in thread that that is bullshit however. So, maybe others will chime in on what they think. | ||
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##Vote: MoosyDoosy I didn't like our interaction, I felt like he was trying to keep me tilted and on the defensive. I completely disagree that I was reaching for straws and seeing what could stick and also disagree that that would even make someone mafia. Generally, it's someone who's on the chopping block. There's around a 50% chance I won't be back before deadline, but if I am I will be "gone" till two hours prior. I'll be around for 30 more minutes or so then I will "leave". | ||
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