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On June 26 2016 12:44 Tumblewood wrote:
gb, if you had straight null on someone, that's 10/13 = about 77% town. choosing between 77% town who is good and 100% town who is not, 77% of the time the first guy is the better play.
consider someone who you read town. move it up to 85% or 90% town. nearly every time, putting them in mayor is the correct play. I have a 90% read on super so yeah easy choice.
OK, this is a pet peeve of mine. Don't use numbers unless you know what you are doing with them. Throwing out percentages like this is just bad form IMO.
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Hahaha "giving my D". I meant "Giving my D1 reads."
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On June 27 2016 02:29 Jealous wrote:
Hahaha "giving my D". I meant "Giving my D1 reads."
Still high, eh 
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Btw I'm inactive right now because I'm working. Tomorrow is the first day of a theatre play we've being working on for months and I am rehearsing right now
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On June 27 2016 02:36 GlowingBear wrote:
Btw I'm inactive right now because I'm working. Tomorrow is the first day of a theatre play we've being working on for months and I am rehearsing right now
Good luck, beak a leg 
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On June 26 2016 17:19 Superbia wrote:
QT can you elaborate on that post when you read this? Why were you so angry?
OK, there are a couple reasons for it.
1) I have been lynched a lot day one in my day and I am sick and tired of getting Scum read every game regardless of if I'm Town or Scum.
2) There is also another reason outside of this game for why I was kinda peeved at the time which contributed to me looking more upset than I prolly should have been.
3) I AM in fact playing different this game than last and if people can't see that IDK WTF is wrong with you. I didn't even like people Town reading me for it in fact.
4) Arts push was beyond unfounded based on me as a player and I took issue with that. Its virtually the same kind of reasoning every time I get Scum read which is almost always because of an oddity in playstyle.
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Reminder:
I AM NAMED VT
Vote me for mayor but REMEMBER TO SPREAD YOUR VOTES WITH SOMEONE VERY TOWNIE
Don't just vote me or you'll let Mafia have an easy time to decide the pardonner
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So can we have a proportional representation system? I'm not sure if I like the top candidates :/
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On June 26 2016 18:18 Superbia wrote:
A quick few notes about how I feel about damdred btw:
I think damdred could be scum, but not for the reasons that have been brought up (iirc). I think his reads have been sort of relaxed and I can see them coming from a town perspective. I do want to see some reasons behind them. Especially the two I asked at the start of the game.
Damdred's most scummy play this game has been his chicanery regarding presidency. He started the game off with the whole "I don't want to be president but I want to support a town president" or something along those lines. I think this is actually sort of scummy. I think as town you want to be the president, especially if you believe in your own ability. Moreover, it felt like he did want the presidency from the very start. His last page of his filter also has him pushing more and more towards getting the presidency.
Damdred, can you explain? Did you really not want presidency? If so, what has changed?
Moreover, can you elaborate on your early reads a little? Why did you conclude artanis vs qt was TvT that quickly?
This post sucks and I'm Scum reading you for it.
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On June 27 2016 02:40 GlowingBear wrote:
Reminder:
I AM NAMED VT
Vote me for mayor but REMEMBER TO SPREAD YOUR VOTES WITH SOMEONE VERY TOWNIE
Don't just vote me or you'll let Mafia have an easy time to decide the pardonner
Whether or not this is true, this is such a good play since you won't be able to be cop read once you are pardoner.
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On June 26 2016 19:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 19:41 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 19:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 19:23 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 19:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 19:15 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 19:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I've never seen you truly try as mafia, Slam. I've seen you truly try as town and you've had incredible games there. I don't see why not hard townreading you would be proving I'm scum, that's a very loaded statement. You don't know whether or not my alternate identity is Slam. Applying some meta that might be completely wrong is dumb. The sentence is loaded because it should be. The way I've approached pressuring you is not something many players on this site are capable of doing as mafia. To think I'm mafia, one or two things kinda have to be true. 1) you must think I am excellent at playing scum 2) you must not have noticed the kind of pressure being put on you is not something normal or off-hand The simple conclusion to my alignment, assuming I'm not some scum-god, is that I must be town because there's almost no one capable of doing what I have been doing as mafia. So yes, the statement is loaded, because it is intended to be. It's not that hard to kick a puppy that's already being kicked by a few others. Plus, knowing I'm town means I know you're tunneling on town, which has plenty of mafia reasoning behind it. The fact that you're trying so hard to use it as leverage to get townread also diminishes its worth as clearly you're very aware of what you're doing. I am perfectly aware of what I am doing Artanis, I am very smart. I am also perceptive enough to undestand why what you're doing right now is not logical. For example, when Skynx pushed you with weaker and less coherent reasons, and put less force behind the push than I am doing now, you simply wrote him off as town for the very fact that he wrote a case on you. For some reason I'm not getting the same treatment. If anything, my points are better thought out and more valid than Skynx', so why am I not getting the same treatment? Objectively, I have, in this conversation and the previous one, put you on the defense. How many scum players on TL can put you on defense when you're town? I understand other players do not have to townread me, they're not you. But you, specifically, should really be changing your mind about my alignment right now. Because Skynx is a newbie and you're, as you put it, very smart, and probably have a lot of experience in playing mafia. I use different bars for different players. I do like that I managed to put you in a corner where your options were a) call me awesome b) call yourself mafia Anyway, I think I'll leave you for now, but that doesn't mean you're out of danger. You are currently the lynch target for my mayoral campaign, and will remain so. There's two reasons I'm not going to bother with you for a while, the first one is that I need to read up on other players to better flesh out my platform and vision for this game, and secondly it's just mean to run up the score when you're so thoroughly trouncing your opponent. I will probably spite lynch you if you keep this up btw. Your ego's choking out the game.
loool you were tryna choke out other players earlier until everyone reacted badly to it and tried to kill you. This is why you shouldn't be such a rood rood boi.
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On June 26 2016 19:48 Jean Valjean wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 19:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 19:41 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 19:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 19:23 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 19:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 19:15 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 19:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I've never seen you truly try as mafia, Slam. I've seen you truly try as town and you've had incredible games there. I don't see why not hard townreading you would be proving I'm scum, that's a very loaded statement. You don't know whether or not my alternate identity is Slam. Applying some meta that might be completely wrong is dumb. The sentence is loaded because it should be. The way I've approached pressuring you is not something many players on this site are capable of doing as mafia. To think I'm mafia, one or two things kinda have to be true. 1) you must think I am excellent at playing scum 2) you must not have noticed the kind of pressure being put on you is not something normal or off-hand The simple conclusion to my alignment, assuming I'm not some scum-god, is that I must be town because there's almost no one capable of doing what I have been doing as mafia. So yes, the statement is loaded, because it is intended to be. It's not that hard to kick a puppy that's already being kicked by a few others. Plus, knowing I'm town means I know you're tunneling on town, which has plenty of mafia reasoning behind it. The fact that you're trying so hard to use it as leverage to get townread also diminishes its worth as clearly you're very aware of what you're doing. I am perfectly aware of what I am doing Artanis, I am very smart. I am also perceptive enough to undestand why what you're doing right now is not logical. For example, when Skynx pushed you with weaker and less coherent reasons, and put less force behind the push than I am doing now, you simply wrote him off as town for the very fact that he wrote a case on you. For some reason I'm not getting the same treatment. If anything, my points are better thought out and more valid than Skynx', so why am I not getting the same treatment? Objectively, I have, in this conversation and the previous one, put you on the defense. How many scum players on TL can put you on defense when you're town? I understand other players do not have to townread me, they're not you. But you, specifically, should really be changing your mind about my alignment right now. Because Skynx is a newbie and you're, as you put it, very smart, and probably have a lot of experience in playing mafia. I use different bars for different players. I do like that I managed to put you in a corner where your options were a) call me awesome b) call yourself mafia Anyway, I think I'll leave you for now, but that doesn't mean you're out of danger. You are currently the lynch target for my mayoral campaign, and will remain so. There's two reasons I'm not going to bother with you for a while, the first one is that I need to read up on other players to better flesh out my platform and vision for this game, and secondly it's just mean to run up the score when you're so thoroughly trouncing your opponent. I will probably spite lynch you if you keep this up btw. Your ego's choking out the game. "The zebra bravely announces he'll eat the lion". Good luck Artanis.
although this is pretty rood from you too jean
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On June 26 2016 20:14 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 19:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Yeah 100% lynching Jean if I become mayor. There is actually no chance he's mafia you know right?
There's not no chance but we're definitely not voting Artanis for mayor now. :D
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On June 26 2016 20:21 Jean Valjean wrote:
I will deliberately ignore Moosy and Chezinu for now. While my time is limited I think it is better spent reading people who are actually attempting to play the game. I hope they get checked at some point just to relieve me of the headache of figuring them out.
That means I just have a few more filters to go through before the end of the day. I very much think GB is someone that needs to be looked into, and then there's Jelaous who I don't even remember posting at all.
save yourself the trouble and kill me will ya. I'm mafia godfather
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On June 27 2016 02:43 emperorchampion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2016 02:40 GlowingBear wrote:
Reminder:
I AM NAMED VT
Vote me for mayor but REMEMBER TO SPREAD YOUR VOTES WITH SOMEONE VERY TOWNIE
Don't just vote me or you'll let Mafia have an easy time to decide the pardonner Whether or not this is true, this is such a good play since you won't be able to be cop read once you are pardoner.
Actually has anybody discussed this, other than the fact that it's pretty much un-cc'able? I would feel OK about this if it were any other green / blue role.
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On June 26 2016 20:28 Jean Valjean wrote:
Also I contest the statement I am a dick. I have been very polite in the way I've pushed you Artanis, I've used mature language and thoroughly explained my read all the way along. The only reason you think I am a dick is because you're on the wrong end of a ten ton lynching machine, that is always uncomfortable.
I am justice, not spite.
this post is spite itself lolol
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On June 26 2016 21:37 Jean Valjean wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 21:19 Superbia wrote:On June 26 2016 20:30 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 20:28 Superbia wrote:On June 26 2016 20:25 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 20:20 Superbia wrote:Man, your read on me is superweak. Hence, your primary category is "Null". If you would like for me to change my read on you, start finding mafia and you shall be swiftly rewarded. Go through someone's filter, build a case. You're not pushing anyone, you're not doing anything decisive. Even if I'm completely wrong on Artanis, I'm building a case, presenting evidence and pushing things forward in a way that will help the game. You're at best on the sidelines asking marginally relevant questions and providing uninteresting oneliners about people's alignment I barely even know who you think is mafia or who you want to lynch, yet you're a candidate for the mayoral office? How do you expect to win votes like that? Convince me on something, hell convince me Artanis is town, and I'll gladly throw my vote behind you. But as of now you deserve very little. You have 5 pages of filter and I can't even remember you calling anyone strongly mafia. By the way you talked about me suggests that you know my meta. Tell me, is any of what you have said reminiscent of how I play town? x; I do not care how you play town. I care about how I want you to play town and how I know you're capable of playing town. I want you to summarize, be decisive and push not because I think that's your town meta, but because I think that is the best way you can be useful to the game if you are indeed town. There's very few things I care less about than your own sense of "my town meta". Can I conclude from this is that you think I'm town? I'm basically asking you "how are you evaluating my alignment?" and you're answering with "this is how I want you to play". That is because I cannot accurately evaluate your alignment until you've provided me with material to work with. No I not think you're town, but I'm also not sold on you being mafia. If your contributions remain to just not do anything and not commit to figuring out the game, then I will be forced to make the call based on more vague evidence. So yes, currently i'm judging some kind of a vague idea of how smart, sophisticated and analytical I think you can be against what is the reality this game. It's less about tone or meta, and more about just the very content of your posts, and the thought process behind them. Currently I see a player I consider smart and definitely capable of being useful wasting that talent and making no conclusions from it. If that is all I get from you, so be it. If I am wrong because you simply wanted to keep intact some bullshit meta, then so be it too. See, I know the TL meta lets people get away with being lazy, useless and bad. But I'm not here to adhere to anyone else's meta, I'm building my own.
I'm getting away with it! And you said you'd leave me alone which means you're letting me get away with it!
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The following is actually a very well thought out post. I am completely removing Jealous from the table as a potential lynch candidate day 1. This doesn't of course mean he is a lock townread forever, but the thought process he shows here, while occasionally slightly flawed (I'll respond to specifics later in this post), means he's actually thinking about the game in a very strategic kind of way.
The reason I am responding to this post in detail is that I believe it is good form to respond to people who actually put thought into the way they play the game. I'm hoping to win Jealous over as an ally in the coming days.
On June 27 2016 02:26 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2016 00:08 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 23:59 Damdred wrote:
I explained it a little bit previously, if it was just activity I would probably give him another day.
Its mainly that one post describing the qt v art fight as town v town. Its his only contribution and it doesn't make sense to me coming from his position of not knowing art. And honestly art came off a little worse than qt in that exchange.
So not sure why he would think that it just feels like Tmi to me. I actually kind of agree, he was specifically asked that and conjured up an answer that was surprisingly thought out given the fact that everything else in his filter has basically been him excusing himself from playing. Not necessarily the TMI part, but rather just the appearance of it. Maybe the trick just to ask him... Hey Jealous, what do you think of my spat with Artanis? And explain your thoughts on Tictock. I was already typing this out as I was working through the thread, so I will use this as an answer: Having read the past few pages that were largely Jean Vanjean pushing Artanis, playing petty games and platforming for presidency, I have to say that he has left a foul taste in my mouth. While I respect his use of language and mild tone, I have to say that he is trying too hard to push the notion that he is "smart" and that therefore the best choice for mayor. Scum can be smart too, and I think a smart scum would follow along the same lines that Jean is doing:
You are entirely correct. The point is, anyone running for presidency is going to need to make an impression on town. I decided that because I had more time than expected today, I would push for the spot (also, the other options mostly sucked). If I do not push the idea that I'm a strong candidate, there is no chance for me to succeed. I have no meta, no name recognition, nothing to go on except what I say and do this game. I needed, more than anyone else, to push myself ahead of the group.
The important part, and the part you must not miss, is that all this is true whatever my alignment is. Some people have overestimated me being town on this basis, and you seem to overestimate me being scum. The important part is you cannot find my alignment just based on this, you need to actually look at my reads and my insights, rather than my words and my platform, to deduce my alignment.
On June 27 2016 02:26 Jealous wrote:
1. Lay relatively low at first and not draw much suspicion in either direction while the thread is in a tumultuous Day 1 state, Artanis fighting QT, lots of speculation going in every direction, etc.
Yes, but again, so would someone who is simply afk as town. I had real life obligations yesterday and was unable to participate much. I have had more time than expected today, which has been great.
On June 27 2016 02:26 Jealous wrote:
2. a. Push a target that is already under pressure/suspicion from others using vague meta reads (paraphrasing what Artanis said, "If I had a dollar for every time someone scumread me for playing worse than they expect me to,").
b. Play word/mind games (and perhaps a little bit of fear tactics) to force that target to say things that Jean wants said from another mouth, giving him added external validity. "This is not incorrect, as mafia can never lynch me. My greatest strength in mafia is that I can beat people into submission with arguments and words." - Jean
c. Essentially bullying him into voting for him as president.
Yes, I'm good at arguing and I can push my ideas heavily when needed. But it is extremely difficult to do what I'm doing as mafia. I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just very difficult and I don't think many scum players are capable of doing it.
Also, the reason I tend to attack people based on some expectation of their play, is that it's a cleverly aggressive way to point out something they did wrong. If I put a person in a position with limited options, for example when I say Artanis is good enough to townread me and if he doesn't he must be mafia, it is more likely the person screws up. It's simply an interrogation tactic.
Artanis might still be mafia but I feel far less certain than before. I'm not a huge fan of him giving up because I know Artanis is a generally jolly and relaxed, but I guess it doesn't necessarily make him mafia. His mafia game is more trolly than resigned, and there is a very real chance his frustration with being pushed is actually real.
I don't know right now and I'm sort of waffling on lynching Artanis.
On June 27 2016 02:26 Jealous wrote:
3. Build a stronger platform for a presidential candidacy than any that has been posted so far, using big words and nice formatting to please the eye and make the reader complacently agree with the validity of his statements, in what could be considered a "last push" because of the timing (12 hours before EoD as opposed to any time prior).
I simply do that for readability and transparency. I think, if anything, the conciseness of my posts should indicate that at least if I'm mafia, I'm not using the tactic of shitting up the thread with useless posts.
On June 27 2016 02:26 Jealous wrote:
I find the fact that he has garnered a fair share of support and relatively little suspicion to be very alarming. Is everyone going for the textbook "he is active and pushing someone, so can't be scum?" I believe that can backfire terribly in a game such as this where that modus operandi would be an effective strategy for Mafia to get into a position of power and make the game much harder for Town to win.
There have been four people whose names have been tossed around/who have been voted for/have pushed for presidency, from what I've read so far (I still have to go back to the early pages). In most recent pages, GlowingBear has been making some weak pushes for it, going by the logic of "Why SHOULDN'T I be President?" as opposed to "Here is why I SHOULD be President," which I don't like either.
In short, I think that between those people (Superbia, Jean, GB, and one other person I am forgetting at the moment) there must be a scum. It is THE play of the game in this format, and for scum to sit back and allow Town to freely elect Town for both positions would be simply poor play. I find that to be less likely than scum being one of the power candidates right now.
I have support because I am far better than all the alternatives. No, I am not a player you can simply look at and your eyes are filled with a neon-green light. Due to the fact that I'm articulate, people tend to assume I am capable of better scumplay than I really am. But in general the simple solutions tend to be good, which is why in most people's mind, the simple solution that I'm trying in an extremely townie way, is that I'm town. I'm not saying you should not watch out for tryhard scum, it's just that you should also not forget what is most likely in a given situation.
I agree scum should not let town grab the power positions, but experience has taught me that for the most part, scum is extremely bad at pushing for these positions. I think it happens very rarely that mafia actually gets their candidate voted into power, it's just too much effort and very difficult to do.
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On June 26 2016 21:51 Superbia wrote:
Who would people vote for for the lynch?
I want to lynch: Moosydoosy
oh sht yes
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On June 26 2016 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 18:48 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 18:27 Superbia wrote:
Also why do you think artanis is mafia? Because I have trouble believing that Artanis' approach to just about anything this game is even half genuine. In the initial stages he was joking around, but uncharacteristically he wasn't really funny at all. He is a funny guy so it is actually suspicious when he tries to be funny but is only marginally funny. This might mean that he was making jokes not because he felt like making jokes, but rather because he thought it would be a good idea to make jokes for other reasons. Weak, but I can see it. Show nested quote +Secondly I liked Skynx's case on Artanis, and I did not like Artanis' response to it. Skynx doesn't prove Artanis is mafia with that case, but he does bring up some justifiable points about Artanis' approach to the game. Most notably the stiffness in his transition from joking to what was a fairly weak attack on QT. I was the first person to actually get the game rolling. I also felt like I saw something and switched gears because of it. I tend to do that in all my games as either alignment. Show nested quote +Artanis responded by dismissing the case and throwing a townread Skynx's way, I do not disagree with the sentiment that Skynx looks a lot better for casing Artanis, but the dismissal of the case was done in a way I don't believe a veteran player would dismiss a case. Artanis should have explained why the things he did don't make him mafia, instead of just semi-ridiculing the case. Ridiculing accusations is a sign of weakness. The problem with his case is that it was simply an interpretation of events that could be viewed in multiple ways. I showed him another way and he said I was twisting the case, which I really wasn't since it came down to narrative. Show nested quote +Thirdly, he called me out for doing little. As I have already explained, I had no real problem with him throwing a scumread my way, but he did it for the wrong reason. Then afterwards he claimed he had done it to "rile me up" while then also claiming his initial reason was valid. I don't believe Artanis genuinely thinks that he was riling me up. When he made an off-hand comment on me and threw me on a list he was barely targeting me at all and had no idea I would actually respond to him, given my lack of contributions at that point in the game. I think it's much more likely he saw an easy opportunity to sort of call someone out that would possibly not bother to really respond to him, giving him an easy and uncontroversial scumlean. This is all interpretation. I'm playing freely, doing as I please and I usually have fun when I'm playing town. You called out someone which I felt was unjustly so I played the ball back at you. That was the main reason I did it; the very light scumread was because of the reason I stated: commenting on things without having read all of it, and I had already indicated it was very weak. Show nested quote +Lastly, Artanis has thrown around townreads with way too much confidence this game. Chezinu, Damdred, Skynx, QT all got pretty hard townreads from him for relatively flimsy reasons. I just have a hard time believing he is actually working through the scenarios to reach a conclusion, feels like he is just throwing something out there and running with it. I explained the Chez read pregame. I've hard townread Damdred since the beginning because he feels like he's playing freely. He gave me a townread and when asked he instantly said it was basically so we wouldn't fight or something to that accord. I just don't think he instantly says something like that as mafia. It indicates he isn't bothered by how people see him. Skynx and QT are newbies and the paranoia and genuineness I see in them I think would be extremely hard to fake for newbies. I'm very confident in both those reads for good reasons.
These arguments Art is bringing up just reeks of Scum.
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EPT
