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On April 21 2016 00:51 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2016 00:41 justanothertownie wrote:On April 21 2016 00:36 gumshoe wrote:So I have alot of stuff saved up for eon, but if it’s just going to just get ignored theres no real point to the effort is there / : so I’m writing this preamble to hopefully soften the crowd : D if I am actively involved in a game and I make it past the first few nights I am going to start putting stuff together. I think in large webs based around core evidence. The problem is you are all very clever people and you find the one or two holes in what I say and assume that those exceptions are in fact the case and subsequently dismiss them in favour of your own reads. Reads that if I felt like doing so, I could pick apart like cotton. This is simply because most arguments in mafia come with a free set of holes / : the only reason they continue to stand is because people cant be bothered disproving all of them / : I said my interactions make it very unlikely for me to be mafia. That does not equal "I called him mafia so I can't be mafia Heres a post from jat in regards to rels pushing him, at this point jats getting pretty angry. He seems to think that saying my “interactions make it unlikely that were mafia together” is way different from “I cant be mafia with him cause I called him mafia” but rels knows jat and is aware that hes not a hyperbolic player ala ritoky (who would be screaming confirmed for days in jats position after the super flip) which means rels may very well consider an understated claim from him to be equivalent. Is rels right or wrong to do this? Thats besides the point, to qoute jat himself I don't care. I don't think you can townread GB yet. But I think it is entirely possible that gumshoe believes he can. Is it really that hard to see rels believing this as town? Jat seems to think that rels could not possibly do this as green and I think thats his biggest fuck up yet If you are town you are being a fucking idiot because things like this are mafia basics and yet you obviously fail to grasp anything this game. The more you do this the more I think you are just trying to rile me up and to undermine my standing in this town. Jat feels rels is bieng an idiot, he knows rels is intelligent, therefore rels is scum. There are so very many problems with this logic, but lets start simple, jat is a very smart and eloquent person, to him, alot of what we say probably comes off as idiotic because of just that. He has rarely agreed with anyone this game about anything as he is rather confident / : as he should be, he is quite good. Yet that gives him a poor perspective on whats too dumb a move for someone to make. Also there's the fact that this is a terrible move regardless, which means no matter what alignment he is rels is being stupid, therefore stupidity has no bearing on rels alignment as jat seems to think. There is no reason to attack jat here as all rels has to do if hes scum is look townie. Antagonising townie numero uno may do that indirectly, but it also aggros him thereby making the whole move derp. Only real reason to do it is if rels actually think jats scum based off feel and is using shit reasoning to justify that feel read / : thereby pissing off jat and robbing him of his objectivity. Which sorta makes rels town. The point I am trying to make here is that I think Jat is a fantastic player, but here he is being a fucking idiot. I can find shit like this on everyone here and i’m sure they could come up with a million reasons why I’m wrong about them being wrong and we can go back and forth like that forever. Look, I don't want us to stop finding flaws in one another's arguments, thats mafia, what I want is for us to stop rewarding ourselves for finding those flaws with the instant dismissal of the cases to which those flaws belong. All so that we can get back to proving why were right and everyone else is wrong. So when I post what may be my last big wall of text ,which is going to be as logical and streamlined and clear as I can possibly make it ,and you find all the potential outs for each and every point, dont just walk away satisfied, ask yourself how effective those outs actually are, how likely is it that they are the rule and not the exception? Das all I ask yo / : Can you tell me what's the point of this post? Because I don't see it. You want me to townread rels or what? I feel like your very good at finding flaws in theories but bad at evaluating their likely hood. What I am going to be saying at e.o.n has alternative explanations, but those explanations are highly unlikely, what I am worried about is this- I post a huge wall of change and people ethier ignore it or find a possible alternative explanations to it's key points that are huge stretches but serve as more than enough for them to just move on / : The point of this post is to ask people to read my eon posts objectively. Fully prepared to discard many of thier reads if they cant honestly consider the alternatives, to the facts I will base my case around, to be likely. To this end I am using you as a sacrificial goat to demonstrate that even the best players can be wrong : P which is exactly how I am viewing this town atm. but no I am not asking you to town read rels, I am simply showing that your reasoning for scum reading him earlier was bad and fueled by emotion/outrage.
Be honest, you also wrote it to have the opportunity to call JAT a "fucking idiot". ^^
Seriously, sry if you feel everybody is not listening to you. But if several players tell you why they disagree with your conclusions, maybe you are right nonetheless, maybe you didn't explain properly ... or maybe there is something wrong with your conclusions.
And ofc I will read your eon posts if I survive, as everyone should. Doesn't mean I promise to agree with it though.
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On April 21 2016 00:52 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2016 00:47 justanothertownie wrote:On April 21 2016 00:46 rsoultin wrote:On April 21 2016 00:43 Rels wrote:
lol rsoul I forgot you were writting everything in spanish early on. Apparently it was too hard to keep up ^^ >> lol god it takes me like 4x as long to do it that way >> i prob should have given how much i spammed this game but...okay you want the honest truth? part of why i dropped it (apart from frustration at palmar lol ><) was it was so damn slow that me capping my spamming wasn't really helpful lol >< part was laziness \o/ Lucky you. I might have policy lynched you for it. -shrugs- doubt it lol no one would have followed that policy lynch unless they had reasons of their own ^^ @gum you know, you could have just tldr'd it to say: i'm frustrated that y'all are dismissing my reads please don't confuse not agreeing with your reasons as dismissing your reads. i will admit that when i see a case built mostly around narrative (and yes, yours fall in that category) i'm predisposed to kinda just skim them. but that doesn't mean that i don't go gum thinks obi and sl are scum. i don't agree with his reasons, but i'm pretty sure gum is town so maybe he's seeing something i'm not? and then go back and look at obi and sl again and come to my own conclusion i'm sorry if that's not as satisfying as going WOW great case SHEEPLE NOW! but i mean, if i don't find your arguments compelling i simply don't :/ people often don't find mine compelling so at least we're in good company lol
It's fine im not actually angry XD just worried. Think of it from my view, I think sl and obi are scum, regardless of wether I am right or wrong, everyone currently disagrees. I dont know what docs thinking (nor would I ask him to divulge XD) so from my view, I may very well be about to die and theres no one to else really pushing my reads
So yeah, I am doing whatever I can to ask town to me lend me their ear for what could be mah last thang / : cause if I didnt do that I would feel like I did not do everything I possibly could to win (within the rules XD)
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On April 21 2016 01:00 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2016 00:52 rsoultin wrote:On April 21 2016 00:47 justanothertownie wrote:On April 21 2016 00:46 rsoultin wrote:On April 21 2016 00:43 Rels wrote:
lol rsoul I forgot you were writting everything in spanish early on. Apparently it was too hard to keep up ^^ >> lol god it takes me like 4x as long to do it that way >> i prob should have given how much i spammed this game but...okay you want the honest truth? part of why i dropped it (apart from frustration at palmar lol ><) was it was so damn slow that me capping my spamming wasn't really helpful lol >< part was laziness \o/ Lucky you. I might have policy lynched you for it. -shrugs- doubt it lol no one would have followed that policy lynch unless they had reasons of their own ^^ @gum you know, you could have just tldr'd it to say: i'm frustrated that y'all are dismissing my reads please don't confuse not agreeing with your reasons as dismissing your reads. i will admit that when i see a case built mostly around narrative (and yes, yours fall in that category) i'm predisposed to kinda just skim them. but that doesn't mean that i don't go gum thinks obi and sl are scum. i don't agree with his reasons, but i'm pretty sure gum is town so maybe he's seeing something i'm not? and then go back and look at obi and sl again and come to my own conclusion i'm sorry if that's not as satisfying as going WOW great case SHEEPLE NOW! but i mean, if i don't find your arguments compelling i simply don't :/ people often don't find mine compelling so at least we're in good company lol It's fine im not actually angry XD just worried. Think of it from my view, I think sl and obi are scum, regardless of wether I am right or wrong, everyone currently disagrees. I dont know what docs thinking (nor would I ask him to divulge XD) so from my view, I may very well be about to die and theres no one to else really pushing my reads So yeah, I am doing whatever I can to ask town to me lend me their ear for what could be mah last thang / : cause if I didnt do that I would feel like I did not do everything I possibly could to win (within the rules XD)
that's fair ^^ i'm sure your reads won't be dismissed outright; if they are that's on the town still in the game, not you
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On April 21 2016 00:56 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2016 00:51 gumshoe wrote:On April 21 2016 00:41 justanothertownie wrote:On April 21 2016 00:36 gumshoe wrote:So I have alot of stuff saved up for eon, but if it’s just going to just get ignored theres no real point to the effort is there / : so I’m writing this preamble to hopefully soften the crowd : D if I am actively involved in a game and I make it past the first few nights I am going to start putting stuff together. I think in large webs based around core evidence. The problem is you are all very clever people and you find the one or two holes in what I say and assume that those exceptions are in fact the case and subsequently dismiss them in favour of your own reads. Reads that if I felt like doing so, I could pick apart like cotton. This is simply because most arguments in mafia come with a free set of holes / : the only reason they continue to stand is because people cant be bothered disproving all of them / : I said my interactions make it very unlikely for me to be mafia. That does not equal "I called him mafia so I can't be mafia Heres a post from jat in regards to rels pushing him, at this point jats getting pretty angry. He seems to think that saying my “interactions make it unlikely that were mafia together” is way different from “I cant be mafia with him cause I called him mafia” but rels knows jat and is aware that hes not a hyperbolic player ala ritoky (who would be screaming confirmed for days in jats position after the super flip) which means rels may very well consider an understated claim from him to be equivalent. Is rels right or wrong to do this? Thats besides the point, to qoute jat himself I don't care. I don't think you can townread GB yet. But I think it is entirely possible that gumshoe believes he can. Is it really that hard to see rels believing this as town? Jat seems to think that rels could not possibly do this as green and I think thats his biggest fuck up yet If you are town you are being a fucking idiot because things like this are mafia basics and yet you obviously fail to grasp anything this game. The more you do this the more I think you are just trying to rile me up and to undermine my standing in this town. Jat feels rels is bieng an idiot, he knows rels is intelligent, therefore rels is scum. There are so very many problems with this logic, but lets start simple, jat is a very smart and eloquent person, to him, alot of what we say probably comes off as idiotic because of just that. He has rarely agreed with anyone this game about anything as he is rather confident / : as he should be, he is quite good. Yet that gives him a poor perspective on whats too dumb a move for someone to make. Also there's the fact that this is a terrible move regardless, which means no matter what alignment he is rels is being stupid, therefore stupidity has no bearing on rels alignment as jat seems to think. There is no reason to attack jat here as all rels has to do if hes scum is look townie. Antagonising townie numero uno may do that indirectly, but it also aggros him thereby making the whole move derp. Only real reason to do it is if rels actually think jats scum based off feel and is using shit reasoning to justify that feel read / : thereby pissing off jat and robbing him of his objectivity. Which sorta makes rels town. The point I am trying to make here is that I think Jat is a fantastic player, but here he is being a fucking idiot. I can find shit like this on everyone here and i’m sure they could come up with a million reasons why I’m wrong about them being wrong and we can go back and forth like that forever. Look, I don't want us to stop finding flaws in one another's arguments, thats mafia, what I want is for us to stop rewarding ourselves for finding those flaws with the instant dismissal of the cases to which those flaws belong. All so that we can get back to proving why were right and everyone else is wrong. So when I post what may be my last big wall of text ,which is going to be as logical and streamlined and clear as I can possibly make it ,and you find all the potential outs for each and every point, dont just walk away satisfied, ask yourself how effective those outs actually are, how likely is it that they are the rule and not the exception? Das all I ask yo / : Can you tell me what's the point of this post? Because I don't see it. You want me to townread rels or what? I feel like your very good at finding flaws in theories but bad at evaluating their likely hood. What I am going to be saying at e.o.n has alternative explanations, but those explanations are highly unlikely, what I am worried about is this- I post a huge wall of change and people ethier ignore it or find a possible alternative explanations to it's key points that are huge stretches but serve as more than enough for them to just move on / : The point of this post is to ask people to read my eon posts objectively. Fully prepared to discard many of thier reads if they cant honestly consider the alternatives, to the facts I will base my case around, to be likely. To this end I am using you as a sacrificial goat to demonstrate that even the best players can be wrong : P which is exactly how I am viewing this town atm. but no I am not asking you to town read rels, I am simply showing that your reasoning for scum reading him earlier was bad and fueled by emotion/outrage. Be honest, you also wrote it to have the opportunity to call JAT a "fucking idiot". ^^ Seriously, sry if you feel everybody is not listening to you. But if several players tell you why they disagree with your conclusions, maybe you are right nonetheless, maybe you didn't explain properly ... or maybe there is something wrong with your conclusions. And ofc I will read your eon posts if I survive, as everyone should. Doesn't mean I promise to agree with it though.
again, I am not upset XD you all are great and I am having a ton of fun regardless. I just needed to do something dramatic cause yeah : P from where I stand the situation calls for it.
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And I do acknowledge, that I may not be the best at getting stuff across / : e.o.n should hopefully amend that.
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On April 16 2016 13:38 Tumblewood wrote:
I'm skeptical on your Superbia read, rsoul.
On April 16 2016 13:39 Tumblewood wrote:
And by that I mean your only evidence is Superbia saying "Hey I'm not going to be here" and then not being here. Attributing that to scum burnout is a huge conclusion-leap.
Partner indicator right there.
The rsoul read was:
On April 16 2016 12:32 rsoultin wrote:
slight preference for superbia because i can see fazer just not knowing what to do in his first game. obviously this could come from first-time scum just as easily but yeah...superbia's drive-by not gonna post bit seems like it could come from burn-out...at the very least unless he's just not gonna be back for deadline there's no need to even post the excuse in the first place
Which is a reasonnable and not-so-strong read. It didn't deserve that attack from Tumble quoted above.
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On April 21 2016 01:03 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2016 00:56 Rels wrote:On April 21 2016 00:51 gumshoe wrote:On April 21 2016 00:41 justanothertownie wrote:On April 21 2016 00:36 gumshoe wrote:So I have alot of stuff saved up for eon, but if it’s just going to just get ignored theres no real point to the effort is there / : so I’m writing this preamble to hopefully soften the crowd : D if I am actively involved in a game and I make it past the first few nights I am going to start putting stuff together. I think in large webs based around core evidence. The problem is you are all very clever people and you find the one or two holes in what I say and assume that those exceptions are in fact the case and subsequently dismiss them in favour of your own reads. Reads that if I felt like doing so, I could pick apart like cotton. This is simply because most arguments in mafia come with a free set of holes / : the only reason they continue to stand is because people cant be bothered disproving all of them / : I said my interactions make it very unlikely for me to be mafia. That does not equal "I called him mafia so I can't be mafia Heres a post from jat in regards to rels pushing him, at this point jats getting pretty angry. He seems to think that saying my “interactions make it unlikely that were mafia together” is way different from “I cant be mafia with him cause I called him mafia” but rels knows jat and is aware that hes not a hyperbolic player ala ritoky (who would be screaming confirmed for days in jats position after the super flip) which means rels may very well consider an understated claim from him to be equivalent. Is rels right or wrong to do this? Thats besides the point, to qoute jat himself I don't care. I don't think you can townread GB yet. But I think it is entirely possible that gumshoe believes he can. Is it really that hard to see rels believing this as town? Jat seems to think that rels could not possibly do this as green and I think thats his biggest fuck up yet If you are town you are being a fucking idiot because things like this are mafia basics and yet you obviously fail to grasp anything this game. The more you do this the more I think you are just trying to rile me up and to undermine my standing in this town. Jat feels rels is bieng an idiot, he knows rels is intelligent, therefore rels is scum. There are so very many problems with this logic, but lets start simple, jat is a very smart and eloquent person, to him, alot of what we say probably comes off as idiotic because of just that. He has rarely agreed with anyone this game about anything as he is rather confident / : as he should be, he is quite good. Yet that gives him a poor perspective on whats too dumb a move for someone to make. Also there's the fact that this is a terrible move regardless, which means no matter what alignment he is rels is being stupid, therefore stupidity has no bearing on rels alignment as jat seems to think. There is no reason to attack jat here as all rels has to do if hes scum is look townie. Antagonising townie numero uno may do that indirectly, but it also aggros him thereby making the whole move derp. Only real reason to do it is if rels actually think jats scum based off feel and is using shit reasoning to justify that feel read / : thereby pissing off jat and robbing him of his objectivity. Which sorta makes rels town. The point I am trying to make here is that I think Jat is a fantastic player, but here he is being a fucking idiot. I can find shit like this on everyone here and i’m sure they could come up with a million reasons why I’m wrong about them being wrong and we can go back and forth like that forever. Look, I don't want us to stop finding flaws in one another's arguments, thats mafia, what I want is for us to stop rewarding ourselves for finding those flaws with the instant dismissal of the cases to which those flaws belong. All so that we can get back to proving why were right and everyone else is wrong. So when I post what may be my last big wall of text ,which is going to be as logical and streamlined and clear as I can possibly make it ,and you find all the potential outs for each and every point, dont just walk away satisfied, ask yourself how effective those outs actually are, how likely is it that they are the rule and not the exception? Das all I ask yo / : Can you tell me what's the point of this post? Because I don't see it. You want me to townread rels or what? I feel like your very good at finding flaws in theories but bad at evaluating their likely hood. What I am going to be saying at e.o.n has alternative explanations, but those explanations are highly unlikely, what I am worried about is this- I post a huge wall of change and people ethier ignore it or find a possible alternative explanations to it's key points that are huge stretches but serve as more than enough for them to just move on / : The point of this post is to ask people to read my eon posts objectively. Fully prepared to discard many of thier reads if they cant honestly consider the alternatives, to the facts I will base my case around, to be likely. To this end I am using you as a sacrificial goat to demonstrate that even the best players can be wrong : P which is exactly how I am viewing this town atm. but no I am not asking you to town read rels, I am simply showing that your reasoning for scum reading him earlier was bad and fueled by emotion/outrage. Be honest, you also wrote it to have the opportunity to call JAT a "fucking idiot". ^^ Seriously, sry if you feel everybody is not listening to you. But if several players tell you why they disagree with your conclusions, maybe you are right nonetheless, maybe you didn't explain properly ... or maybe there is something wrong with your conclusions. And ofc I will read your eon posts if I survive, as everyone should. Doesn't mean I promise to agree with it though. again, I am not upset XD you all are great and I am having a ton of fun regardless. I just needed to do something dramatic cause yeah : P from where I stand the situation calls for it.
Don't worry. Should you get shot there are enough people still in the game who are able to reevaluate. I think there will be a good chunk of additional information tomorrow so it will be needed anyways.
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Well I have to leave work. I thought I would have time to reread the entire D1 before that but actually I don't. =X I will try to do that before deadline. If I have to, I will only read JAT's filter from EOD1, but I would prefer if I have time to read the things in their context.
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On April 21 2016 01:12 Rels wrote:
Well I have to leave work. I thought I would have time to reread the entire D1 before that but actually I don't. =X I will try to do that before deadline. If I have to, I will only read JAT's filter from EOD1, but I would prefer if I have time to read the things in their context.
You won't find anything incriminating there so it will be a waste of time but don't let me stop you.
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On April 21 2016 02:03 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Lurking atm.
Thank you for telling us. Noone would have ever noticed.
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On April 21 2016 02:14 justanothertownie wrote:Thank you for telling us. Noone would have ever noticed.
I'm the silent guardian that TL deserves, but not the one that it needs right now.
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On April 21 2016 01:05 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2016 13:38 Tumblewood wrote:
I'm skeptical on your Superbia read, rsoul. Show nested quote +On April 16 2016 13:39 Tumblewood wrote:
And by that I mean your only evidence is Superbia saying "Hey I'm not going to be here" and then not being here. Attributing that to scum burnout is a huge conclusion-leap. Partner indicator right there. The rsoul read was: Show nested quote +On April 16 2016 12:32 rsoultin wrote:
slight preference for superbia because i can see fazer just not knowing what to do in his first game. obviously this could come from first-time scum just as easily but yeah...superbia's drive-by not gonna post bit seems like it could come from burn-out...at the very least unless he's just not gonna be back for deadline there's no need to even post the excuse in the first place Which is a reasonnable and not-so-strong read. It didn't deserve that attack from Tumble quoted above.
Why does this indicate I'm scum with rsoul? Do you think that we're both scum or just one or neither?
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Also, Rels, JAT, and gum are encouraged to shut up about each other because they're all town arguing about nothing.
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I feel comfortable about my town circle now, it's probably not changing anymore, bar a scum claim. My feeeels have been working overtime this game.
town
jat
rels
gum
ows
onegu
probably also town
sl
not town
shape
rsoul
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Can you explain why you are townreading Onegu?
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On April 21 2016 03:04 justanothertownie wrote:
Can you explain why you are townreading Onegu?
You don't claim your scum partner scumslipped and confirmed someone else as town (and keep telling everyone to make sure they all know) when clearly no one else saw it as that. It's counterproductive as scum and really useful as town (at least to the townie).
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On April 21 2016 03:07 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2016 03:04 justanothertownie wrote:
Can you explain why you are townreading Onegu? You don't claim your scum partner scumslipped and confirmed someone else as town (and keep telling everyone to make sure they all know) when clearly no one else saw it as that. It's counterproductive as scum and really useful as town (at least to the townie).
Eh, wrong but could see why someone might think it.
Could do it to distance.
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On April 21 2016 01:39 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2016 01:12 Rels wrote:
Well I have to leave work. I thought I would have time to reread the entire D1 before that but actually I don't. =X I will try to do that before deadline. If I have to, I will only read JAT's filter from EOD1, but I would prefer if I have time to read the things in their context. You won't find anything incriminating there so it will be a waste of time but don't let me stop you.
Well my GF made the surprise of getting back 1 day earlier than she should have so I'm obv gonna stay with her ^^ so I'll resume this tomorrow if we're both still alive.
To confirm: you think your treatment of Superbia D1 makes you unlikely partner, while mine is NAI right ? This is what I want to look for specifically.
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On April 21 2016 02:49 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2016 01:05 Rels wrote:On April 16 2016 13:38 Tumblewood wrote:
I'm skeptical on your Superbia read, rsoul. On April 16 2016 13:39 Tumblewood wrote:
And by that I mean your only evidence is Superbia saying "Hey I'm not going to be here" and then not being here. Attributing that to scum burnout is a huge conclusion-leap. Partner indicator right there. The rsoul read was: On April 16 2016 12:32 rsoultin wrote:
slight preference for superbia because i can see fazer just not knowing what to do in his first game. obviously this could come from first-time scum just as easily but yeah...superbia's drive-by not gonna post bit seems like it could come from burn-out...at the very least unless he's just not gonna be back for deadline there's no need to even post the excuse in the first place Which is a reasonnable and not-so-strong read. It didn't deserve that attack from Tumble quoted above. Why does this indicate I'm scum with rsoul? Do you think that we're both scum or just one or neither?
No it's an indicator of you being partner with Superbia, because you defended him here but you masked that defense by an attack on rsoul, whose read was actually logical and not very strong.
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EPT
