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On May 02 2016 19:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yes it is, even if he fucked up on D1 as town, there is no way he fucks up like that as N1. I mean like ofc you can never be 100% certain, but there is no reason to counter-claim him in a situation like that or assume a real power role that plays properly cc's him. Even if it Vivax, just always shoot them.
No, no, no.
Yes, he should do stuff in the night but not everyone does that. Vigging a claimed powerrole without a cc in an OPEN setup is insanely dumb.
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On May 02 2016 19:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2016 19:43 justanothertownie wrote:On May 02 2016 19:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yes it is, even if he fucked up on D1 as town, there is no way he fucks up like that as N1. I mean like ofc you can never be 100% certain, but there is no reason to counter-claim him in a situation like that or assume a real power role that plays properly cc's him. Even if it Vivax, just always shoot them. No, no, no. Yes, he should do stuff in the night but not everyone does that. Vigging a claimed powerrole without a cc in an OPEN setup is insanely dumb. So let's say Superbia actually played his A-game on D2. I am gonna come out and say that you would have lynched Obi the doctor over him there and oh boy you would have felt stupid. If you also count his D1 and N1 play here -- on the lynch on D2, why do you need to counter-claim / would not shoot him again?
erm, what?
If super played his A-game on D2 then gumshoe would cc him and we would lynch superbia. And it is very different if you don't do much as claimed pr in the night vs. when you are being lynched the day after. How you can argue anything else is beyond me.
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People wouldn't have lynched either of them because a cc on day2 makes 0 sense as mafia.
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On May 02 2016 19:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2016 19:48 justanothertownie wrote:On May 02 2016 19:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 02 2016 19:43 justanothertownie wrote:On May 02 2016 19:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yes it is, even if he fucked up on D1 as town, there is no way he fucks up like that as N1. I mean like ofc you can never be 100% certain, but there is no reason to counter-claim him in a situation like that or assume a real power role that plays properly cc's him. Even if it Vivax, just always shoot them. No, no, no. Yes, he should do stuff in the night but not everyone does that. Vigging a claimed powerrole without a cc in an OPEN setup is insanely dumb. So let's say Superbia actually played his A-game on D2. I am gonna come out and say that you would have lynched Obi the doctor over him there and oh boy you would have felt stupid. If you also count his D1 and N1 play here -- on the lynch on D2, why do you need to counter-claim / would not shoot him again? erm, what? If super played his A-game on D2 then gumshoe would cc him and we would lynch superbia. And it is very different if you don't do much as claimed pr in the night vs. when you are being lynched the day after. How you can argue anything else is beyond me. Because if Superbia is mafia which is likely you don't out a power role and waste D2 into talking about nothing but him (which the town did -- it always happens). If Superbia is town he will get shot anyways on N1 because he is a good player AND a power role. Like he was clearly the scummiest player in the game besides the claim and therefore the best shot. Shooting him as vigi doesn't make it any worse since he will almost always get shot by scum if he is town as it is expected he will play on D2 and if he is mafia there is clearly profit in shooting him.
No, he does not always get shot. They can just rb him. And it doesn't even matter since what you are saying is that in case he is town we should just waste our vigshot. Great plan.
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You can criticize this town for quite a few things but how we handled superbia was 100 % correct.
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On May 02 2016 19:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2016 19:56 justanothertownie wrote:On May 02 2016 19:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 02 2016 19:48 justanothertownie wrote:On May 02 2016 19:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 02 2016 19:43 justanothertownie wrote:On May 02 2016 19:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yes it is, even if he fucked up on D1 as town, there is no way he fucks up like that as N1. I mean like ofc you can never be 100% certain, but there is no reason to counter-claim him in a situation like that or assume a real power role that plays properly cc's him. Even if it Vivax, just always shoot them. No, no, no. Yes, he should do stuff in the night but not everyone does that. Vigging a claimed powerrole without a cc in an OPEN setup is insanely dumb. So let's say Superbia actually played his A-game on D2. I am gonna come out and say that you would have lynched Obi the doctor over him there and oh boy you would have felt stupid. If you also count his D1 and N1 play here -- on the lynch on D2, why do you need to counter-claim / would not shoot him again? erm, what? If super played his A-game on D2 then gumshoe would cc him and we would lynch superbia. And it is very different if you don't do much as claimed pr in the night vs. when you are being lynched the day after. How you can argue anything else is beyond me. Because if Superbia is mafia which is likely you don't out a power role and waste D2 into talking about nothing but him (which the town did -- it always happens). If Superbia is town he will get shot anyways on N1 because he is a good player AND a power role. Like he was clearly the scummiest player in the game besides the claim and therefore the best shot. Shooting him as vigi doesn't make it any worse since he will almost always get shot by scum if he is town as it is expected he will play on D2 and if he is mafia there is clearly profit in shooting him. No, he does not always get shot. They can just rb him. And it doesn't even matter since what you are saying is that in case he is town we should just waste our vigshot. Great plan. I am pretty sure this town wasted a mislynch because they shot a completely null player who ended up being town.
That's exactly what vigshots are good for. Getting rid of lurkers/question marks. They should not be used to stack with mafia.
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On May 02 2016 19:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2016 19:56 justanothertownie wrote:On May 02 2016 19:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 02 2016 19:48 justanothertownie wrote:On May 02 2016 19:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 02 2016 19:43 justanothertownie wrote:On May 02 2016 19:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yes it is, even if he fucked up on D1 as town, there is no way he fucks up like that as N1. I mean like ofc you can never be 100% certain, but there is no reason to counter-claim him in a situation like that or assume a real power role that plays properly cc's him. Even if it Vivax, just always shoot them. No, no, no. Yes, he should do stuff in the night but not everyone does that. Vigging a claimed powerrole without a cc in an OPEN setup is insanely dumb. So let's say Superbia actually played his A-game on D2. I am gonna come out and say that you would have lynched Obi the doctor over him there and oh boy you would have felt stupid. If you also count his D1 and N1 play here -- on the lynch on D2, why do you need to counter-claim / would not shoot him again? erm, what? If super played his A-game on D2 then gumshoe would cc him and we would lynch superbia. And it is very different if you don't do much as claimed pr in the night vs. when you are being lynched the day after. How you can argue anything else is beyond me. Because if Superbia is mafia which is likely you don't out a power role and waste D2 into talking about nothing but him (which the town did -- it always happens). If Superbia is town he will get shot anyways on N1 because he is a good player AND a power role. Like he was clearly the scummiest player in the game besides the claim and therefore the best shot. Shooting him as vigi doesn't make it any worse since he will almost always get shot by scum if he is town as it is expected he will play on D2 and if he is mafia there is clearly profit in shooting him. No, he does not always get shot. They can just rb him. And it doesn't even matter since what you are saying is that in case he is town we should just waste our vigshot. Great plan. Like if you wanna talk theory then talk theory. But don't talk theory and ignore what actually happened when it suits you and vice versa. In theory, regardless of Superbia's alignment, first of all when he claimed, if you want to make him accountable of his claim, make him claim a ROLE and not just blue. When noone counter-claims him on D1 it is expected noone will counter-claim him on D2 either. If someone counter-claims him, you either have to discount everything Superbia did on D1 and N1, or otherwise there is no need for counter-claim. If Superbia is town, any mafia up for lynch on D2 will obviously counter-claim him 100% of the time. Then you end up again in a dumb spot where at worst you have lynched a townie (GB here) and a blue role -- possibly even shot another fucking townie on N1 aswell. Instead of just.. shooting the scum on N1. Again, if you do not discount what Superbia did on D1 and N1, why cc anyways?
It was too late to reliably get a cc day1. No point in making him commit to a role if it only helps mafia if he is town and also outs the real powerrole during the night.
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On May 02 2016 20:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
idk, maybe it's just me. Keep the game simple.
A lot of games nowadays people don't keep the game simple.
And town loses.
We did keep it simple and this certainly wasn't why town lost.
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Like, if gumshoe gets a save at any point in time then we win this game. He had 3 nights to do so...
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On May 02 2016 20:10 rsoultin wrote:
o.0 oh good lord
super was a fine lynch, especially because doc didn't need to cc and we didn't pussy out
i personally would have shot him but that was for his overall play which had me 100% convinced he was mafia fake-claiming, particularly how he reacted to jat's comment when he was supposedly trying to wifom scum. i'm not sure that shooting anyone who claims d1 would have been the right move
but honestly, jat, rayn scumreads me on the regular for bad things (like the gb progression which he either didn't understand or didn't read closely enough, or my not scumreading you because he would have for reasons similar to why i was scumreading tumble). that doesn't make him bad, though, lol. neither of you are bad
and i'm pretty sure no one was terribly right at that time...
If he does that once it doesn't make him bad. But the factual basis for the reasons he stated is completely untrue. And the fact that is really annoying me about this is how he just refuses to learn/see his mistake to say he would 100 % lynch anyone who plays like I did when I did nothing wrong at all.
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On May 02 2016 20:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2016 20:10 rsoultin wrote:
i personally would have shot him but that was for his overall play which had me 100% convinced he was mafia fake-claiming, particularly how he reacted to jat's comment when he was supposedly trying to wifom scum. i'm not sure that shooting anyone who claims d1 would have been the right move
That's what i was arguing.  I don't necessarily agree on lynching him D1. Seeing his play N1 he was clearly the best shot. On Fazers. I don't think he was a good shot at all. Basically it was clear that the guy didn't really know what to do on D1 (or was faking that as mafia). imo you can't possibly tell which one is the correct answer. What happened at the eod 1 was: - People "randomly" lynched Glowingbear (noone could make anything out of those votes -- the people who seemed bad, or could have been scum for them were Tumble and JAT, both of which were town) - Superbia claimed blue (almost noone could apparently figure out if this makes him mafia or not) Now why does Fazers suddenly have to have some super fucking great insight on the game when absolutely noone else in the game can make anything out of what happened at the eod1 (yes, that was the thread sentiment). Knowing he was for sure a guy who doesn't really know what to do on D1, why should he know something more on N1? Like... The amount of information he thinks is reliable at point A was X. People do not think Fazers is mafia at A. Time goes by and suddenly people start calling him scum on point B when the amount of information for him is still X. It's just.... bs..
First of all your conclusion that the votes only make tumble and me look scummy has no actual basis and is clearly total bullshit.
Also:
"There is a guy who refuses to do anything without flips/wagons. Now there is a flip, there are multiple wagons and a claim. Why would he ever be able to make a read out of something like that? Let's just keep him alive until LYLO and see if he has anything to say then"
Utterly retarded.
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On May 02 2016 20:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2016 20:13 justanothertownie wrote:
If he does that once it doesn't make him bad. But the factual basis for the reasons he stated is completely untrue. And the fact that is really annoying me about this is how he just refuses to learn/see his mistake to say he would 100 % lynch anyone who plays like I did when I did nothing wrong at all. I havent stated anything incorrect based on the thread or your filter.
Yes, yes you did. "Refused to vote superbia" "says his vote day makes him town"etc. etc.
But you clearly don't want to learn from your mistakes or why you were wrong and fell for mafia bsing at maximum level so we can end this discussion for all I care.
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On May 02 2016 20:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2016 20:25 justanothertownie wrote:
First of all your conclusion that the votes only make tumble and me look scummy has no actual basis and is clearly total bullshit. Both of you refused to vote for your scumread Superbia when he was one of the two wagons. It is a fact.
No, it isn't. I did say I would sheep Palmar and I would have followed through if not for the fakeclaim.
If my eod1 was scummy then everyones eod1 was scummy except for SL who wasn't around.
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On May 02 2016 20:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2016 20:23 Rels wrote:
Fazer was a perfectly fine vig shot, 100% coinflip I think unless your name is SL or ritoky + super inactive, that is what vig are for. That's not what i am arguing though. I am arguing it is bs to call a vigi shot on him on N1 if you didn't scumread him on D1.
Thee was nothing to read him anything which is exactly why he was a really good vigshot.
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On May 02 2016 20:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2016 20:28 justanothertownie wrote:On May 02 2016 20:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 02 2016 20:25 justanothertownie wrote:
First of all your conclusion that the votes only make tumble and me look scummy has no actual basis and is clearly total bullshit. Both of you refused to vote for your scumread Superbia when he was one of the two wagons. It is a fact. No, it isn't. I did say I would sheep Palmar and I would have followed through if not for the fakeclaim. If my eod1 was scummy then everyones eod1 was scummy except for SL who wasn't around. Yeah because you are always non-commital you can turn anything into your favor. Seriously, there were wagons on Superbia and Tumblewood. You called Superbia, sicklucker and GB mafia. You argued for fucking hours with Superbia (and against him) and ended up on voting GB when noone else was because "i dont' wanna decide a day 1 lynch". Could you be more on the fence? lol ^^ And you can't see why people would think this is scummy and you did "nothing wrong"? If we are really honest JAT, that is really fucking scummy.
No, it really fucking isn't. Which is evidenced by the simple fact that I am town and this isn't the first time I tried not to lynch a day1 lynch because I always have to do so and I hate it.
Being on the fence is not a scumtell.
But keep being bad and lynch people for not having some retarded overconfidence in bad reads like you apparently do if you want. You are clearly intent on never improving.
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On May 02 2016 20:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
and yes, you literally refused to vote for your scumread when he was one of the two wagons.
you can't even fucking argue against that.
Yes, I can. I don't think you know what the word refused means.
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On May 02 2016 20:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Being on the fence is a scumtell when the guy you are on the fence on is mafia and you think he is mafia and the other guy up for lynch is not a guy you think is mafia. Like i get people go away from logic in this game more and more but is this some kinda wonderland nowadays?
You just said I scumread both super and GB. So what the fuck are you even talking about? You are really just pulling shit out of your ass.
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Not to mention that the alignment of the guy is not known to me as a townie so fencesitting can't be scummy because of it. Either fencesitting is always scummy or it just isn't.
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On May 02 2016 20:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2016 20:40 justanothertownie wrote:On May 02 2016 20:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Being on the fence is a scumtell when the guy you are on the fence on is mafia and you think he is mafia and the other guy up for lynch is not a guy you think is mafia. Like i get people go away from logic in this game more and more but is this some kinda wonderland nowadays? You just said I scumread both super and GB. So what the fuck are you even talking about? You are really just pulling shit out of your ass. Because there are literally zero votes on Glowingbear and your post where you vote for him you imply you don't even wanna lynch him because you are "tired of choosing D1 lynches". It is not an unreasonable to assume that Superbia (your mafia read) can get lynched if you vote for him. It is not unreasonable to assume that Tumblewood (not your mafia read) can get lynched if you don't do anything about it. Both of the assumptions above are at that point more likely than that Glowingbear (your mafia read) gets lynched if you vote for him, especially when you say you don't even care if other people follow you or not. So regardless of any of those three people's alignments you, at that point of the game, chose to not take a stance on a lynch when it's likely one of Superbia/Tumble gets lynched - when one of them is your scumread and the other one is not. What happens after, or whatever you would have done based on things that didn't happen is irrelevant. I am not sure why i have to even explain why this can be seen (and should be seen) as scummy....
You are making the assumption that I could never change my vote again once I voted GB.
Which is obviously extremely retarded. Of course I would have voted Super again if it came down to a 1v1 between him and tumble and I was literally about to. And as you can see people sheeped me instead so from your "things that didn't happen are irrelevant point of view" I did everything right by lynching my scumread GB and making my vote count.
I am not even sure why I have to explain this to you.
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But this is seriously the last thing I will say to this. You are clearly grasping at straws to justify your awful stance on my play this game and won't let facts or reasonable thinking get in your way.
Good thing you weren't in this game as town. We would have lost incredibly hard.
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EPT
