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On February 18 2016 10:11 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 05:54 sicklucker wrote:On February 18 2016 05:52 Shapelog wrote: GUYS ORDER ORDER *Breaks the god damm malt* WE NEED ORDER. AT THIS RATE, IN 7 MINS OR SO. WITH WILL PROB FUCK UP AND LYNCH A TOWN!!!!
ALSO NICE PIC. SALTSHAKER im very happy with this plummer lynch the more i think about it. Theres good defeatist meta and if hes a lazy town we teach him a lovely lesson! Why did SL swap his vote to scott?
this was explained in great detail in real time///. 1 minuted before deadline after tumble switched his vote I typed "tumbleweed is in im out" then i changed my vote
Now your a smart cookie im sure you can figure out I changed my vote because someone who was scum reading me and defending palmar voted him for no reason
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Shining ask a dumb question you gonna get a dumb answer.
I actually town read Scott at the time for a dumb reason. Now my read is somewhere between scummy, dunno, and town. So I change my imaginary shot to gb.
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I sapose ill be taking a bigger role if im around tomorrow because today was a travesty
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On February 18 2016 19:07 Eden1892 wrote: i should explain more of these but i won't because its 4am and im never getting n1'd anyway
rsoultin is probably town. i'll make the caveat that she isn't blowing me away with anything, and i'm still not sure how much her mafia game has progressed since my sabbatical. but this would have been outside of her mafia range before i left and it's consistent with what i remember before. high volume posting, very engaged, lots of specific questions with clear directions to them
sicklucker's whole shtick as either alignment is to spew a nonsensical, literally egotistic narrative of the game state, where he does really dumb shit and says really dumb things and then bases the entirety of his arguments for the game on those really dumb things and people's reactions to him. it makes him unreadable and generally not a useful contributor to town imo. i think the best way to handle sicklucker is to just leave him alone for several days, literally ignore everything he says, and then see whether his voting record pushed mafia agenda or not and lynch him (or not) off of that while giving him zero quarter to defend himself if he becomes the target.
i'm also down for just lynching him on principle for blatantly softing blue and then walking it back like nothing happened, but i also know this isn't going to get him to stop doing stupid shit like that down the line, so i don't know how productive that is. probably just me getting some satisfaction out of punishing what i perceive as poor play over actually trying to catch mafia (which is ironically poor play in itself...)
trfel and tictock and shape seem obvious to me.
breshke is in a similar place to rsoultin for me -- if i hadn't gone on sabbatical for the greater part of a year then i could say with total confidence that breshke is town. his behavior lines up with a lot of his priors for me, he tends to be background and asks a lot of clarifying/exploring questions as either alignment, but as town his questions are always much more salient and make sense. they're things you would think of on your own to ask, and then you scroll down and see breshke's already asked them. when the questions seem weird or out of place he's mafia.
and no offense to breshke's scum play, but i have this unexplained intuitive sense that he hasn't broadened his spectrum of mafia play enough in my time away that my meta priors would be wrong. i have no good reason to think this and could be very wrong about it, but i'm sticking to it until someone gives me a reason not to.
i guess my big reversal is on the shining but if you're keeping up with my posts, you'll see that i was coming around to this already. i guess i should explain this one but i don't feel like it
of my poe pile i think i'm probably wrong about gb above the rest. the other three would all fit the profile of a lurking scumteam that hasn't needed to do much to force misplays and errant lynches from town
I didnt mislynch palmar im sure my vote was anti mafia
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palmar called me town. thats basically his legacy this game so you would be smart the listen to it hes played the most games with me here
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anyway good job town your playing this correct i might not even get nked ow
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ya dude your omgus looked really townie
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On February 18 2016 08:07 nooniansoong wrote: Shape, it's wrong that you're not not wrong. What? my read is wrong b/c it is not not wrong. So the 2 not's cancel out. Meaning, Im wrong about being wrong. So I am right?
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On February 18 2016 07:19 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 07:04 Shapelog wrote: GB talk to me, In a picture/gif/Ms painting, tell me why you are not mafia. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HNzTlwH.jpg) Revealing your PM without actually Revealing your PM...Clever
On February 18 2016 10:02 GlowingBear wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/j2QpGNZ.jpg) So you think I am a cop?
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On February 18 2016 12:31 GlowingBear wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/H9w2A69.jpg)
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On February 18 2016 15:06 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 14:36 rsoultin wrote:On February 18 2016 13:47 Trfel wrote: Rsoultin, what? You changed your GlowingBear read?
Don't get this wrong, you know I'll actually listen to you this time...
Also, I didn't change my read on Tumblewood based on the pictures.
Why do GlowingBear and Tumblewood being town make you think that scott31337 is town? I don't get it. lol >< like anyone ever listens to me on GB...although tbf i talk myself out of the right reads on him so maybe that's sometimes okay eh this just reminds me of drams a bit and even though his lackluster posting made me fine with lynching him (on top of being absent) he became more reactive at EoD which is what i associate with his townplay more + trolling lol >< nh, regarding scott...it's hard to explain really but i'll try like if he's scum we should see scum either bussing him for the cred, piling on palmar or at the very least resisting lynching him. GB and tumble both fall into that piling on palmar or resisting lynching him cat...like he flips scum the association is strong there but i'm fairly secure in my shape and eden townreads and the scott wagon looks pretty pristine disregarding sl if i'm right on tumble it doesn't make a lot of sense that scum is both bussing and voting palmarSo he doesn't like how trefel just settles on a lynch saying there is a bunch of valid options but he isnt a vote spread with my possible scum all over the place suggests to me that both are town or scum is really disorganized, which i suppose is possible with a mostly afk scum team, but given how the game state i kinda doubt that I think the bolded is a bit messed up? I agree with the essence of this post that the way EoD went down makes me feel that scott is probably town but thats also because I have a hankering that SL is scum but won't be discussing that until tomorrow I also still really have a problem with these posts. Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 05:24 Tumblewood wrote:On February 18 2016 05:18 Trfel wrote: Oh yeah, scott31337's in the game.
Maybe just lynch him? This feels scummy to me... Town doesn't just settle for a lynch like that, especially when there are other valid options. Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 05:30 Tumblewood wrote:On February 18 2016 05:26 Breshke wrote:On February 18 2016 05:24 Tumblewood wrote:On February 18 2016 05:18 Trfel wrote: Oh yeah, scott31337's in the game.
Maybe just lynch him? This feels scummy to me... Town doesn't just settle for a lynch like that, especially when there are other valid options. Who are the valid options? I think trefels post is perfectly justified. Right now my lynch list is shining, GB, scott and palmar. I have not mentioned any of these people before and it is mostly based on activity and how this EoD is turning out. SL, Shape, gB, shining, Scott, and Palmar are all reasonable lynches; I don't see what makes Scott the better option in Trfel 's mind. Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 05:56 Tumblewood wrote: I can't sleep easy if I see any of the other wagons getting lynched over Palmar. ##vote: Palmar SO the first quote he scums trefel for settling on a lynch claiming there are other valid options yet he isnt voting or pushing anyone at the time. Then the next two quotes make no sense together as there is no explanation in between the two to explain why palmar suddenly became the better lynch. He basically did what he accused trefel of doing but in my opinion in a far scummier way. ALSO there is this Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 05:32 Tumblewood wrote:On February 18 2016 05:31 Breshke wrote:On February 18 2016 05:30 rsoultin wrote:On February 18 2016 04:42 The Shining wrote:On February 18 2016 04:41 Shapelog wrote: Do I have to claim or can I wait till I post after my read list? Don't claim minutes before deadline if you're a role. actually yeah shining could totally be mafia for encouraging a claim and then disappearing -_- how is that pro mafia? Gives mafia information He says that shining getting shape to claim is pro mafia because it gives them information WHEN HE ASKED HIM TO CLAIM ASWELL. And Earlier he said that Palmar was a Bad Lynch/was put in the bad lynch list. "For being overconfident and having huge changes of heart"
Tumble is getting more and more sus.
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remember to send all actions to the hosts/cohosts by 16:00 EST
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On February 18 2016 15:43 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 22:17 Shapelog wrote:Also for TT, Here are his (tumble) 1st few posts: + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/502408-newbie-student-mafia-xix?user=Tumblewood - his, 2 page filter 1st few posts, On January 27 2016 11:30 Tumblewood wrote:Read over the thread, and these are my reads so far: Town: (none yet) Leaning Town: Alur, Trfel Null: PepperMintTea, nooniansong, Onegu Leaning Scum: darthfoley, _MexicanAlien Scum: Shapelog My reasoning on Shapelog:Shapelog has acted generally like a newbie scum player all game. He started the game off with about five jokes and no content. Given that this is day 1, that's not too important. I'm not sure how to feel on the weird read toward nooniansong, because it doesn't necessarily feel scummy or townie, just poorly informed. But the posts that really strike me are: Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 06:41 Shapelog wrote:On January 27 2016 06:39 Onegu wrote: But serious Shape trying to meta read kush(nooninsong) before he even posts is weird as fuck. I am not trying to read him lol. I am just saying there is something he does and as the day(s) goes on I will look for it, if it is absent, I will comment on it. Unless your scum team kills me, in which case i can just use it later on  . and Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 07:55 Shapelog wrote:On January 27 2016 07:48 _MexicanAlien wrote: So first shapelog suggests talking about blue roles, then he lists the reason for each blue role to not need help. Very good reasons. Yeah i was revising the logic on it after Deathfy posted about it. Also I am always Sus. on my D1's, Both as Blue and Vt due to my reactive, blah blah blah trolling playstyle  Yet to roll mafia sadly, thought this would be the one =(. In both of them, he mentions something about not being scum. Why would a townie ever do that? Why would anyone ever do that? "Unless your scum team kills me," and, "Yet to roll mafia sadly," are things normal townies don't just drop. It just screams to me, "Oh boy, what a shame I'm not mafia!" Also, "I am always Sus. on my D1's" doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but I haven't played with Shapelog before. On January 27 2016 12:13 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 11:48 darthfoley wrote: Tumblewood, can you explain why you're town reading Trfel? He has four one liners so far. Which of them makes him lean town for you? I remember some slight town lean posts and nothing scummy, so that was enough to put him up there in my memory. Looking through his filter, though, there's not much to put him on one side or the other. If I had to redo that list, I'd swap Onegu and Trfel. On January 28 2016 01:31 Tumblewood wrote:I had a big long post halfway written, but then I went to sleep and everything has changed. So, again, I'm going to make one big long post. First, about our three main suspects: Onegu, PepperMintTea and Shapelog Onegu hasn't really done anything aside from his one big post and his arguments defending that post. Everything else is just Onegu being the Newbie Police. I won't quote that post since it's gigantic, but the read on Trfel is good and the rest doesn't say very much. It's hard to townread him for anything he's done this game, so he's a slight scumread. PepperMintTea hasn't done anything to give me an opinion of him. It looks to me as if people saw one post with sort of flawed logic and then went entirely off of that. Shapelog's early play (say, pre page 16) was scummy as hell. You guys are all townreading him for reasons that are mostly "Too scummy to be scum", like Eden's post (cropped) Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 16:11 Eden1892 wrote: I skimmed the early stuff. It's a bit late and I don't really feel like reading the thread in a lot of depth right now, but I got a few early reads worth sharing.
- Shapelog is obviously town, and the first thing I want to do when I get the motivation to read this game in detail (which will be tomorrow, hold me to this and don't let me be lazy) is to read the sequence of people scumreading him early while it was the "in" read to give, because I'm almost positive scum were involved in that.
If I actually have to explain this (and if you need it explained, that's okay; newbie game and all), Shapelog's posting was very spontaneous and "error-prone" in the right way. As Onegu put it, "talking about someone's meta before they even post" is in fact a poor use of a townie's time, because you don't need to call attention to the idea that you have a way to read somebody based on meta. Just make the read in either direction when the trigger behavior you're waiting on manifests itself (or doesn't manifest itself when it should).
But a post like that is never going to come from mafia. Mafia players don't think to themselves: "You know, I should post that I have a meta read on kush before he says anything. That will make me look more townie and advance my agenda." Because it doesn't. It's empty words.
An excited townie, however, who is trying to get discussion started and generate meaningful data for themselves and other players to read, might be overeager and start talking about this tell before it manifests, because it's meaningful to them (even if it doesn't do anything yet). And if you read the rest of Shapelog's posts, eagerness and excitement are pretty reasonable descriptors of his emotional state as he plays.
So we can either assume that Shapelog is a bad noob scum player, who also doesn't have anybody on his team to tell him that his early posting isn't doing anything to help, and who also doesn't have a scum coach telling him the same thing... or we can just assume that he is an eager townie, as his posts read.
The bolded section, the main reason for townreading, makes no sense. It's basically, "It doesn't make him look like town, and scum wants to look like town, so he must not be scum." I'd appreciate if you'd explain that point to me. Next, about the other consistently active players: darthfoley, _MexicanAlien, and Trfel Onegu, regardless of whether he's scum, made a good point on Trfel. Trfel's been asking so many questions but hasn't said much of anything himself. That reads scum to me, because it allows him to advance mafia's agenda without doing anything himself, if that makes sense. Anything I say on darthfoley will be a weak point. He hasn't done much of anything this game to give me a strong opinion on him, so I'm going to call this one a null read. MexicanAlien looks like a complete townread if you ignore his first ten posts. He started the game off with things like, "We need to figure out a strategy" and "We need information", which would be a sure scumread if he weren't a complete newbie or if he continued like that. Those first few posts set off alarm bells in my head, but I think I was wrong on that one, because he's been a normal contributing member of the town since then. And everyone else I have nothing to say about Kuramari and Ikidomari because of how little they've posted and how little they've said. Opinions pending. JesusIncarnate is weird to me because he was away for the first 15 hours of the game then came back and said half good points and half "sick meme". I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but it's definitely suspicious in my mind if he doesn't do anything more for the next several hours. Eden and Alur read town for me, because they seem to be the ones with the most desire to hunt scum in the town. Alur went quiet for a while, but my opinion on him hasn't changed yet. Eden is the more town-leaning of the two. Nooniansoong (kush?) is a sliiiight scum read for me because he's gotten by doing very little so far. There's definitely not enough, though, there to base a lynch off of. TL;DR I was gone for a while and now I'm trying to catch up. Shapelog still reads scum to me, Onegu and Trfel also look scum to me, Eden, Alur, MexicanAlien look town. I need to read through this again and see what everyone else did because it's sort of lame having null / very weak reads on 6/12 other players. Very different approach then from here. Ok wow that is a big difference... actually huge. But...If Tumble was scum in both games, do you think he would play the same way? Given how EoD went, the notes, etc... what is your current read on Tumble? I would, if i was tumble and was playing in a game that had a scum mate in, Prob change my playstyle. That said, I can not really answer that question, because i just do not know.
That said I have some probs. with Tumble. The lack of content can now come from BOTH alignments due to me TR early for it (then he would adapt for it). His read progression has been all over the place (with me being the only consistent scum read, even after claim).
Which is prob. the only reason I am not shouting for the hills. He is still scum reading me. IT would be easiler for mafia just to go along with it. Sure, chance that he is hoping for me to reveal. But mafia would be NKing me anyways (or WIFOM by leaving me alive?) and being that attention on himself seems weird.
Though, he diff. does not deserve a high town read. His vote progession is weird (Palmar is good, Palmar is not good, Palmar is great.) His push on me could possiblely come from both aligments, but it seems strange that he is using meta on me which he claims is not right. In fact,
On February 17 2016 11:15 Tumblewood wrote: No meta reads for me until I play with him as both alignments.
On February 18 2016 03:19 Tumblewood wrote: I am seeing a lot of NSM XIX in Shape: lots of spam without lots of scumhunting, and lots of acting trolly.
On February 18 2016 03:42 Tumblewood wrote: Shape has been acting similar to his last game as scum. I had the privilege of being in the scum QT with him, and his gameplan was this: play the "too scummy to be scum" card, and spam the thread (especially with votes) to make it harder to follow. I think both are valid options for a lynch; whoever makes the better case in the next two hours dodges my vote. He does a 180 on his strict, no meta reads, post.
His 1st reads btw:
On February 17 2016 11:11 Tumblewood wrote: @rsoul : I the only people I have any real insight on are Trfel, Eden (town), Tictock, kush (townlean), you, Shapelog (null), Palmar, SL (scum). The other four have been too absent for my tastes... Breshke has been moderately active, stay tuned for a filter dive. Let say this guy is scum. He comes with his 1st reads pushing Palmar and SL into scum, and me as null. Than promises a filter dive that never happen. Strange is it not?
His Notes: I like then even if they are not the best notes. Though, like the point Kush brought up. Kush was in the "Bad lynch" Cat. but yet Tumble did not know way. Yet Kush has been a TL of his.
On February 17 2016 11:33 Tumblewood wrote: Pretend I quoted rsoul's question. At the beginning of the game (aka when I made that post) the active people (rsoul, Trfel, Eden, kush, TT, SL, Shape, Breshke) were about equally active, and few of their posts at the time provide anything of substance. Since then, rsoul, kush, and TT have taken on a role of facilitation-- that is, making sure the game progresses. I think that mafia are more content just to let this day pass slowly and quietly and would not actively try to prevent that. So, now that there is the hint of sus. on Kush, he jumps. Irony is that I fake scum read him last game because of him being Opportunistic.
And a course that is just it, his filter is Irony. What worse is that his scum read on me comes down to META. He has never actually said, "This quote is why Shape is scum."
On February 18 2016 03:42 Tumblewood wrote: Shape has been acting similar to his last game as scum. I had the privilege of being in the scum QT with him, and his gameplan was this: play the "too scummy to be scum" card, and spam the thread (especially with votes) to make it harder to follow.
So he had no reasoning to vote me other than that. Since his next post was a vote on me. Pure Meta, Pure excuse to ML me. Than he does not have a reason to vote Palmar.
On February 18 2016 05:56 Tumblewood wrote: I can't sleep easy if I see any of the other wagons getting lynched over Palmar. ##vote: Palmar
He never explains his vote, and than leaves the thread. Which could mean he is scum, both wagons at the time was town, and he was happy for either or to get lynched.
Tumble is scum.
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On February 18 2016 21:53 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 19:07 Eden1892 wrote: i should explain more of these but i won't because its 4am and im never getting n1'd anyway
rsoultin is probably town. i'll make the caveat that she isn't blowing me away with anything, and i'm still not sure how much her mafia game has progressed since my sabbatical. but this would have been outside of her mafia range before i left and it's consistent with what i remember before. high volume posting, very engaged, lots of specific questions with clear directions to them
sicklucker's whole shtick as either alignment is to spew a nonsensical, literally egotistic narrative of the game state, where he does really dumb shit and says really dumb things and then bases the entirety of his arguments for the game on those really dumb things and people's reactions to him. it makes him unreadable and generally not a useful contributor to town imo. i think the best way to handle sicklucker is to just leave him alone for several days, literally ignore everything he says, and then see whether his voting record pushed mafia agenda or not and lynch him (or not) off of that while giving him zero quarter to defend himself if he becomes the target.
i'm also down for just lynching him on principle for blatantly softing blue and then walking it back like nothing happened, but i also know this isn't going to get him to stop doing stupid shit like that down the line, so i don't know how productive that is. probably just me getting some satisfaction out of punishing what i perceive as poor play over actually trying to catch mafia (which is ironically poor play in itself...)
trfel and tictock and shape seem obvious to me.
breshke is in a similar place to rsoultin for me -- if i hadn't gone on sabbatical for the greater part of a year then i could say with total confidence that breshke is town. his behavior lines up with a lot of his priors for me, he tends to be background and asks a lot of clarifying/exploring questions as either alignment, but as town his questions are always much more salient and make sense. they're things you would think of on your own to ask, and then you scroll down and see breshke's already asked them. when the questions seem weird or out of place he's mafia.
and no offense to breshke's scum play, but i have this unexplained intuitive sense that he hasn't broadened his spectrum of mafia play enough in my time away that my meta priors would be wrong. i have no good reason to think this and could be very wrong about it, but i'm sticking to it until someone gives me a reason not to.
i guess my big reversal is on the shining but if you're keeping up with my posts, you'll see that i was coming around to this already. i guess i should explain this one but i don't feel like it
of my poe pile i think i'm probably wrong about gb above the rest. the other three would all fit the profile of a lurking scumteam that hasn't needed to do much to force misplays and errant lynches from town I didnt mislynch palmar im sure my vote was anti mafia Sure...You just didn't push him or nothing
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@shapelog, so tumble changed his opinions and broke his own rule on no meta. That's not convincing me of his scuminess.
Furthermore, that quote that breshke brought up:
actually yeah shining could totally be mafia for encouraging a claim and then disappearing -_-
I think it's clear that tumble thought that the disappearing afterwards was what made shining scummy, not the encouraging a claim part. Then breshke calls it contradictory because tumble also enouraged a claim. But it's not contradictory because the scumread wasn't based on merely encouraging the claim.
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I really did want to townread GB. Shape, your points on him weren't not good. But then again think about this: If all the lynch candidates were town, what motivation does scum have to consolidate on any of them?
Anyway, I really did want to townread GB because I like him. But he put all that effort into MSPaints, and none into developing his reads. He is scumreading me without even reading the entirety of my small filter. You'd think actually reading my content would be a priority for him if he's going to scumread me.
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@Shape, will you be the champion of my heart and defend me from those that wish to lynch me? I know I pressured you into claiming, baby, but let's forget that unpleasantness now.
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On February 18 2016 23:43 Shapelog wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 21:53 sicklucker wrote:On February 18 2016 19:07 Eden1892 wrote: i should explain more of these but i won't because its 4am and im never getting n1'd anyway
rsoultin is probably town. i'll make the caveat that she isn't blowing me away with anything, and i'm still not sure how much her mafia game has progressed since my sabbatical. but this would have been outside of her mafia range before i left and it's consistent with what i remember before. high volume posting, very engaged, lots of specific questions with clear directions to them
sicklucker's whole shtick as either alignment is to spew a nonsensical, literally egotistic narrative of the game state, where he does really dumb shit and says really dumb things and then bases the entirety of his arguments for the game on those really dumb things and people's reactions to him. it makes him unreadable and generally not a useful contributor to town imo. i think the best way to handle sicklucker is to just leave him alone for several days, literally ignore everything he says, and then see whether his voting record pushed mafia agenda or not and lynch him (or not) off of that while giving him zero quarter to defend himself if he becomes the target.
i'm also down for just lynching him on principle for blatantly softing blue and then walking it back like nothing happened, but i also know this isn't going to get him to stop doing stupid shit like that down the line, so i don't know how productive that is. probably just me getting some satisfaction out of punishing what i perceive as poor play over actually trying to catch mafia (which is ironically poor play in itself...)
trfel and tictock and shape seem obvious to me.
breshke is in a similar place to rsoultin for me -- if i hadn't gone on sabbatical for the greater part of a year then i could say with total confidence that breshke is town. his behavior lines up with a lot of his priors for me, he tends to be background and asks a lot of clarifying/exploring questions as either alignment, but as town his questions are always much more salient and make sense. they're things you would think of on your own to ask, and then you scroll down and see breshke's already asked them. when the questions seem weird or out of place he's mafia.
and no offense to breshke's scum play, but i have this unexplained intuitive sense that he hasn't broadened his spectrum of mafia play enough in my time away that my meta priors would be wrong. i have no good reason to think this and could be very wrong about it, but i'm sticking to it until someone gives me a reason not to.
i guess my big reversal is on the shining but if you're keeping up with my posts, you'll see that i was coming around to this already. i guess i should explain this one but i don't feel like it
of my poe pile i think i'm probably wrong about gb above the rest. the other three would all fit the profile of a lurking scumteam that hasn't needed to do much to force misplays and errant lynches from town I didnt mislynch palmar im sure my vote was anti mafia Sure...You just didn't push him or nothing
tru but I did ask people to consolidate on scott to save him in the end
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btw i must say breske is doing an excellent job at trying to draw a nk
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On February 19 2016 00:10 sicklucker wrote: btw i must say breske is doing an excellent job at trying to draw a nk you're saying he's acting super townie?
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