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On January 17 2016 01:56 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 01:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 17 2016 01:50 Trfel wrote:On January 17 2016 01:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 17 2016 01:41 Trfel wrote:On January 17 2016 01:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 17 2016 01:26 Trfel wrote:
Raynpelikoneet, Holyflare, any thoughts on NocturneMage? I think you should probably first answer this: On January 15 2016 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 15 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote:Meh, here goes nothing. AlotSomuch is townOn January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote:
Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation. This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest. I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town. I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads. When I make reads, I generally assume that everyone else is town. This is because my reads suck and I only remember one time where I had multiple scumreads at once and at least two were actually scum. Second, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that AlotSomuch was a smurf from TL mafia. But your read is based mostly on Holyflare being town which you didn't think was the case at the time!!It is an associative reads which is terrible in the first place and even the association does not hold up in your mind (since basically the next post of yours is a case on Holyflare being mafia.......) I actually had a small town lean on Holyflare at the time. I just didn't think he was confirmed town. Can you explain which posts made you think Holyflare is more likely to be town than mafia at that time? Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote:
Let me tell you a story about something I encounter in day to day work.
This is a story about consent and the lack thereof.
Consent is the permission for something to take place. Commonly consent is used in regards to a sexual nature and lack of consent leads to a charge called rape.
The serious thing about consent is that it can be given or taken away at ANY time and equally importantly if you consent ONCE it does not mean you consent EVERY time.
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
The hosts have raped me.
Mostly this thing, I've seen Holyflare do things like this before as town (or third party playing like town) but never as mafia. Holyflare is generally a bit more to the point as mafia, from my experience. I started scumreading Holyflare based on what he did when he started playing the game a bit more seriously.
How the fuck can you come to a conclusion this could be alignment indicative in ANY way????
Especially in the direction you claim.
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So you like townread him for not doing anything (=playing properly) and when he continued doing anything (=not playing properly) then you scumread him for it?
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On January 17 2016 02:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well who do you think should be lynched Damdred?
There are several who,haven't voted or posted that might be worth a policy lynch. Even nm might be worth a look.
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I mean like if you townread him for being angry and not playing properly in a sense that he doesn't really care then you assume he is telling the truth about having no time to play (beyond the surface level) and then his play after that perfectly fits this narrative. But then.. you scumread him for it?
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On January 17 2016 02:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 01:56 Trfel wrote:On January 17 2016 01:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 17 2016 01:50 Trfel wrote:On January 17 2016 01:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 17 2016 01:41 Trfel wrote:On January 17 2016 01:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 17 2016 01:26 Trfel wrote:
Raynpelikoneet, Holyflare, any thoughts on NocturneMage? I think you should probably first answer this: On January 15 2016 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 15 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote:Meh, here goes nothing. AlotSomuch is townOn January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote:
Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation. This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest. I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town. I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads. When I make reads, I generally assume that everyone else is town. This is because my reads suck and I only remember one time where I had multiple scumreads at once and at least two were actually scum. Second, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that AlotSomuch was a smurf from TL mafia. But your read is based mostly on Holyflare being town which you didn't think was the case at the time!!It is an associative reads which is terrible in the first place and even the association does not hold up in your mind (since basically the next post of yours is a case on Holyflare being mafia.......) I actually had a small town lean on Holyflare at the time. I just didn't think he was confirmed town. Can you explain which posts made you think Holyflare is more likely to be town than mafia at that time? On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote:
Let me tell you a story about something I encounter in day to day work.
This is a story about consent and the lack thereof.
Consent is the permission for something to take place. Commonly consent is used in regards to a sexual nature and lack of consent leads to a charge called rape.
The serious thing about consent is that it can be given or taken away at ANY time and equally importantly if you consent ONCE it does not mean you consent EVERY time.
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
The hosts have raped me.
Mostly this thing, I've seen Holyflare do things like this before as town (or third party playing like town) but never as mafia. Holyflare is generally a bit more to the point as mafia, from my experience. I started scumreading Holyflare based on what he did when he started playing the game a bit more seriously. How the fuck can you come to a conclusion this could be alignment indicative in ANY way???? Especially in the direction you claim. This is a general pattern for people, what don't you understand?
People as town will tend to be a bit more carefree and do whatever they want, people as scum are more focused on only doing what is necessary (generally making reads). I also feel that this is true for Holyflare. See Aperture 4, see the game where he was trying to run a gameshow. See his scum games, he's largely focused on the game. However, it's something that is possible to replicate as mafia, so it's only a little bit town indicative as a trend, instead of proof.
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I don't think there is anything wrong with NM's posting.
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On January 17 2016 02:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 02:01 AlotSomuch wrote:On January 17 2016 01:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Alot is there a reason why you do not agree with my case on Trfel? Had to go all the way back to the beginning to find which case you were specifically talking about (back to page 6). I agree with your point on his post, and it is part of the reason I voted and am still voting him. It's a suspicious post. I'm saying he's made some better posts throughout the day. I'm still suspicious, which is why I haven't unvoted and want to keep him as the secondary wagon, but I'm also getting more suspicious of Holeyflair. Votes currently stand at 3 votes on Holey, 2 votes on trifle. I'm ok with that right now, and I'm kind of expecting you to switch to Trifle if you feel he is the more likely scum right before EOD. Is there any other posts you like except the posts on Holyflare?
No, those were mostly it. He presented a viable alternate candidate and made some good points on him.
VISCERAEYES, looking back, you voted Trifle but never actually put it in the voting thread. Are you still feeling he is the best candidate, and if so are you going to be putting your vote back there?
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Apologies for the long AFK. Catching up. This is a 3-day weekend for me so my availability will be much better.
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On January 17 2016 02:20 AlotSomuch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 02:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 17 2016 02:01 AlotSomuch wrote:On January 17 2016 01:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Alot is there a reason why you do not agree with my case on Trfel? Had to go all the way back to the beginning to find which case you were specifically talking about (back to page 6). I agree with your point on his post, and it is part of the reason I voted and am still voting him. It's a suspicious post. I'm saying he's made some better posts throughout the day. I'm still suspicious, which is why I haven't unvoted and want to keep him as the secondary wagon, but I'm also getting more suspicious of Holeyflair. Votes currently stand at 3 votes on Holey, 2 votes on trifle. I'm ok with that right now, and I'm kind of expecting you to switch to Trifle if you feel he is the more likely scum right before EOD. Is there any other posts you like except the posts on Holyflare? No, those were mostly it. He presented a viable alternate candidate and made some good points on him. VISCERAEYES, looking back, you voted Trifle but never actually put it in the voting thread. Are you still feeling he is the best candidate, and if so are you going to be putting your vote back there?
I am a bit confused here Alot.
Do you think both Holyflare and Trfel are mafia?
If you don't, why are you okay with both being lynch candidates?
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On January 17 2016 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I mean like if you townread him for being angry and not playing properly in a sense that he doesn't really care then you assume he is telling the truth about having no time to play (beyond the surface level) and then his play after that perfectly fits this narrative. But then.. you scumread him for it? I didn't townread him for being angry and saying that he had no time to play. I townread him for doing things that aren't strictly necessary from a mafia perspective.
In this game, Holyflare made a bunch of posts that didn't directly further his plan, notably the one I quoted. A direct route to accomplishing the same thing would have been:
"I think that Damdred is mafia because of xyz. I don't have much time to play because changing the game start by one day really affects my availability with respect to the deadlines."
Thus, I had a town lean on Holyflare.
Then, Holyflare made several scum reads at different points, causing me to think that he didn't care about his reads, as I described in my first post about him. This is much stronger than my initial town lean, and also, Holyflare scumreading 3 people and having zero townreads showed a more "direct" approach from a mafia perspective, changing my initial read.
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On January 17 2016 02:22 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I mean like if you townread him for being angry and not playing properly in a sense that he doesn't really care then you assume he is telling the truth about having no time to play (beyond the surface level) and then his play after that perfectly fits this narrative. But then.. you scumread him for it? I didn't townread him for being angry and saying that he had no time to play. I townread him for doing things that aren't strictly necessary from a mafia perspective. In this game, Holyflare made a bunch of posts that didn't directly further his plan, notably the one I quoted. A direct route to accomplishing the same thing would have been: "I think that Damdred is mafia because of xyz. I don't have much time to play because changing the game start by one day really affects my availability with respect to the deadlines." Thus, I had a town lean on Holyflare. Then, Holyflare made several scum reads at different points, causing me to think that he didn't care about his reads, as I described in my first post about him. This is much stronger than my initial town lean, and also, Holyflare scumreading 3 people and having zero townreads showed a more "direct" approach from a mafia perspective, changing my initial read.
But you just said you initially townread him for the post where he literally says [u]he doesn't have the time to play properly anymore!!!!!
Then you accuse him of being mafia because he ONLY posts scumreads (which is the most important thing to do if you don't have time to post/argue about everything you wanted).
How does making scumreads in a situation like that result in him being mafia?
What should he have done instead? What is more important than posting who you think is mafia if you can only post one thing?
Basically you are claiming you believe him when he says he has only limited time to play the game and then accuse of him doing the MOST townie thing he can do with his limited time...[/i]
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Which is kinda ridiculous since it seems like you are not really scumreading him for his actual actions but the motivation behind it.
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Raynpelikoneet, I have no idea what you're doing.
I never said that I townread him because he said he doesn't have time to play properly. That has nothing to do with my read on Holyflare.
His focus on scumreads was not scummy in and of itself, however it was contrary to the point that made me think he might be town earlier, which was the indirect approach.
Also, when I say focus, I mean focus on scumreads relative to townreads. His scum reads weren't focused at all, they were more random, it felt like throwing darts on a dartboard and hoping that something stuck.
If you still don't understand this, then I really don't know what to say. This is very simple and I have no clue how you keep saying things that simply are not true.
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On January 17 2016 02:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Which is kinda ridiculous since it seems like you are not really scumreading him for his actual actions but the motivation behind it. Um, that's exactly what I was doing, or at least trying to do.
If I'm reading your statement correctly, then it's probably the biggest compliment I've ever received for my mafia play, so thank you.
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On January 17 2016 02:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 02:20 AlotSomuch wrote:On January 17 2016 02:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 17 2016 02:01 AlotSomuch wrote:On January 17 2016 01:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Alot is there a reason why you do not agree with my case on Trfel? Had to go all the way back to the beginning to find which case you were specifically talking about (back to page 6). I agree with your point on his post, and it is part of the reason I voted and am still voting him. It's a suspicious post. I'm saying he's made some better posts throughout the day. I'm still suspicious, which is why I haven't unvoted and want to keep him as the secondary wagon, but I'm also getting more suspicious of Holeyflair. Votes currently stand at 3 votes on Holey, 2 votes on trifle. I'm ok with that right now, and I'm kind of expecting you to switch to Trifle if you feel he is the more likely scum right before EOD. Is there any other posts you like except the posts on Holyflare? No, those were mostly it. He presented a viable alternate candidate and made some good points on him. VISCERAEYES, looking back, you voted Trifle but never actually put it in the voting thread. Are you still feeling he is the best candidate, and if so are you going to be putting your vote back there? I am a bit confused here Alot. Do you think both Holyflare and Trfel are mafia? If you don't, why are you okay with both being lynch candidates?
I think Trifle is the more likely mafia of the two, but Holeyflair is definitely a possible mafia. If holeyflair gets lynched and flips mafia, I'll probably back off of Trifle.
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It is very concerning that Holyflare left as soon as I backed off of him and raynpelikoneet started focusing on me...
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Here is a post you say you townread Holyflare for:
On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote:
[...]
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
[...]
The post literally says "i don't have time to play properly".
If you townread Holyflare for this post (which is what you said), i assume you also think he is telling the truth in what he says in this post.
On January 17 2016 02:32 Trfel wrote:
I never said that I townread him because he said he doesn't have time to play properly. That has nothing to do with my read on Holyflare.
And then you claim this bullshit? I am not saying you townread him FOR not having time to play properly. I am saying you MUST believe this BECAUSE you townread him.
And then again we come to this.
You believe HF has no time to play properly -> he does what's BEST to do if he tells the truth here and is town (which is what you believe) -> you scumread him for it.
It doesn't make any sense.
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Like this isn't that fucking hard to understand....
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On January 17 2016 02:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:Here is a post you say you townread Holyflare for: Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote:
[...]
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
[...] The post literally says "i don't have time to play properly". If you townread Holyflare for this post (which is what you said), i assume you also think he is telling the truth in what he says in this post. Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 02:32 Trfel wrote:
I never said that I townread him because he said he doesn't have time to play properly. That has nothing to do with my read on Holyflare. And then you claim this bullshit? I am not saying you townread him FOR not having time to play properly. I am saying you MUST believe this BECAUSE you townread him. And then again we come to this. You believe HF has no time to play properly -> he does what's BEST to do if he tells the truth here and is town (which is what you believe) -> you scumread him for it. It doesn't make any sense. What?
Just because I townread someone for a post doesn't mean that I believe everything they said in the post. Like, if you made a joke about supporting Donald Trump, I might townread you for it, but I would certainly hope you didn't actually mean what you said. (yes, I'm actually being political for once  )
My townread on Holyflare was primarily based on that post, but the statement that he had no time to play properly had NOTHING to do with it.
I expect town with limited time to care about the game just as much as town with infinite time. Holyflare's play doesn't show a lack of time to play the game (I mean, he's posted less than he normally does, but whatever. That's not important). Instead, it shows disinterest, and that he doesn't care about lynching his scumreads. Which is completely different from time issues.
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EPT
