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[M][I] Rayn let's be nice Invite Take 2 - Page 36

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
January 18 2016 16:15 GMT
#701
I agree with jat. An invite game shouldnt be terrible people just made it terrible. You just dont fucking accept if you dont want to play. ITs not like theres any prestige being invited anyway. Literally half the community was in it lol.

Theres no obligation its not like you were picked out of 100 candidates. Its like 13-20 people of 40 candidate some of which are coag
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
January 18 2016 16:17 GMT
#702
On January 18 2016 23:41 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2016 22:55 justanothertownie wrote:
On January 18 2016 22:41 Palmar wrote:
Ok warning, rambling rant.

The thing is, people put completely unreasonable expectations into invite games. Invite games tend to be bad because it's usually filled with a bunch of people who mostly just show up because of the prestige of having been invited. I'd much rather play with 8 newbies who still think lying as town is a good idea than a bunch of salty, lazy veterans.

I get it, rayn wanted to have a nice game. He wanted a game where he could play with everyone actually trying. But the problem is, you simply cannot have such a game on demand. It's basically impossible.

A player who signs up for a game does so because he genuinely wants to play. A player who is invited is mostly just dragged into the game.

Yes, the overall quality of the people invited to invite games tends to be relatively high, but half of us have obligations or are afk so the end result usually is worse than when you have a bunch of enthusiastic people who for some reason have still not been added to the invite lists.

I also just don't like the exclusivity, I think the game is way too complicated for anyone to make a call on who should be invited and who shouldn't.

Let's not do too many of these in the future pls.

Apart from this failure - how do you come to this conclusion? I think invite games are a pretty good (if not the only) solution if you are tired of people signing up and not playing the game because you cannot avoid those people otherwise. For example (and I don't think using this one is mean): if coag signs up for a game I immediately think twice about joining it - not because I hate him or anything but because I know he will be dead weight regardless of his alignment. You can't realistically keep him from joining because wisdom of the crowds is not really a thing. So you have to pray he doesn't join the games you want to play in.
Sure there might be problems when people have an ego and aren't invited but you have to keep in mind that the one who organizes the game is in charge of the invites (and rightfully so) so the choice of players will always be subjective. This is not an "official TL game for the best players". This is a round of mafia someone decided to organize to have a game with the people he wants to play with.


It's just an experience thing. My overall feeling is that none of the invite games I've played in have been anywhere near the quality of the good normal games that I've played.


wtf is an invite game this is the only one I ever saw. sick sample size
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
January 18 2016 16:18 GMT
#703
Honestly if you want a good game you should just host and exclude people as you see fit(i asume thats in the rules of hosting) So basically only im willing to do it.

Damnit I will probably do it
rsoultin
Profile Blog Joined November 2014
Netherlands15308 Posts
January 18 2016 16:26 GMT
#704
On January 19 2016 01:15 sicklucker wrote:
I agree with jat. An invite game shouldnt be terrible people just made it terrible. You just dont fucking accept if you dont want to play. ITs not like theres any prestige being invited anyway. Literally half the community was in it lol.

Theres no obligation its not like you were picked out of 100 candidates. Its like 13-20 people of 40 candidate some of which are coag


Lol, why do you think lex and i were hosting? More seriously, I think both camps are right. I do think that people feel more obligated to accept when personally asked to join an invite game by someone, but you and jat are right to say that this feeling is illogical. If you don't have time, don't play. It's the same to me as, if you don't feel like you can play both alignments, don't /in. Everyone knows what they're getting into when they sign up.

Also @kita...yeah. It's a little silly how often people blather on about mod confirmations, and how often hosts have to consider what an action will appear to be even if it's not that at all to someone with limited or no information. I honestly don't actually care if people use faulty logic for their reads. We all do at one time or another. It's only a problem when they use it as an excuse to break the rules and ruin the game for all the other players.

It was as disappointing for me to see behavior like this from the so-called "best" of TL as no doubt it was for the players who were actually looking forward to this game. I just hope the people who need to take something from how it played out do.

Notes for future rsoultin hosting:
1) re-confirmations if necessary
2) be more clear with host posts (I actually think that simply saying "anyone who isn't a player or a host should stop posting in an on-going game" might have prevented some of the nuttiness here, but hindsight and all that.)

That said, also open to any other suggestions. I know hosts can't control players but I can't help but feel that we probably could have done something to keep this better contained.
"rsoultin: Mafia Suicide Inducer...you have unlimited shots because you are so god-damn relentless." - marvellosity (2015)
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
January 18 2016 16:36 GMT
#705
Unfortunate. I feel for Lex/Tina having to deal with all this to be quite fair.

Mage, I think I already went over with you regarding your day 1 play, I can see why you avoided HF v rayn after your initial townread but you should have at least tried to give a further attempt at the mess because I think from what we discussed that is part of the reason DYH was scumreading you and Trfel for whatever reason wasn't buying your initial townread. It was on you to clear that up - you called Trfel for accountability but if you had entertained the possibility of him being town, and it looked to me you did, you should have cleared that up.

I don't know if it was the primary reason Trfel shot you but it might have cleared up some confusion there, otherwise people didn't seem like they wanted to lynch you based on your responses in thread and it seemed obvious that you were honestly giving everything a go and trying to think things through. Ultimately you were just unfortunate that Trfel was the vig.

Same to what a few others said, ALotSoMuch, this is not the norm for this site. The next newbie is up, looks like Smurf is going up soon, and Greymist's game has one spot open left for the taking (see here) so if those interest any of you, I think your experience in those games will be better. And Grey always has different mechanics but that will be part of the fun in his games.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
January 18 2016 16:39 GMT
#706
Yeh Tina, #2 is about the only real suggestion I had, directly addressing the Obs QT posters might have helped, but honestly people shouldn't have used it as an excuse to act out/ruin the game as either alignment. Just my opinion there.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
January 18 2016 16:39 GMT
#707
On January 19 2016 01:17 sicklucker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2016 23:41 Palmar wrote:
On January 18 2016 22:55 justanothertownie wrote:
On January 18 2016 22:41 Palmar wrote:
Ok warning, rambling rant.

The thing is, people put completely unreasonable expectations into invite games. Invite games tend to be bad because it's usually filled with a bunch of people who mostly just show up because of the prestige of having been invited. I'd much rather play with 8 newbies who still think lying as town is a good idea than a bunch of salty, lazy veterans.

I get it, rayn wanted to have a nice game. He wanted a game where he could play with everyone actually trying. But the problem is, you simply cannot have such a game on demand. It's basically impossible.

A player who signs up for a game does so because he genuinely wants to play. A player who is invited is mostly just dragged into the game.

Yes, the overall quality of the people invited to invite games tends to be relatively high, but half of us have obligations or are afk so the end result usually is worse than when you have a bunch of enthusiastic people who for some reason have still not been added to the invite lists.

I also just don't like the exclusivity, I think the game is way too complicated for anyone to make a call on who should be invited and who shouldn't.

Let's not do too many of these in the future pls.

Apart from this failure - how do you come to this conclusion? I think invite games are a pretty good (if not the only) solution if you are tired of people signing up and not playing the game because you cannot avoid those people otherwise. For example (and I don't think using this one is mean): if coag signs up for a game I immediately think twice about joining it - not because I hate him or anything but because I know he will be dead weight regardless of his alignment. You can't realistically keep him from joining because wisdom of the crowds is not really a thing. So you have to pray he doesn't join the games you want to play in.
Sure there might be problems when people have an ego and aren't invited but you have to keep in mind that the one who organizes the game is in charge of the invites (and rightfully so) so the choice of players will always be subjective. This is not an "official TL game for the best players". This is a round of mafia someone decided to organize to have a game with the people he wants to play with.


It's just an experience thing. My overall feeling is that none of the invite games I've played in have been anywhere near the quality of the good normal games that I've played.


wtf is an invite game this is the only one I ever saw. sick sample size


there's been plenty of them

+ Show Spoiler +

remember, i don't hate you

all love

Computer says mafia
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
January 18 2016 16:56 GMT
#708
@NM, I think where I went wrong reading you is that the only time I've seen you as town was when you replaced in D2 and you already had a strong read. I wasn't giving you fair context. Picking out mafia was very hard this D1 so my thinking about your townie habits being only for show is all undercut because you were probably feeling the same uncertainty I was. The only legitimate point I think I had was is that it is strange that you would townread HF and then just let Rayn and Palmar sit on him without any action from you.
Guts? Determination? $5?
Artanis[Xp]
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
Netherlands12971 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-18 17:43:14
January 18 2016 17:42 GMT
#709
I think the most important lesson to take away here is that the game name did not help
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 18 2016 17:59 GMT
#710
@ritoky, you didn't talk me out of me by telling me to shoot you, I wasn't so confident in shooting you because I know that you care about your mafia record. I realize that this reason has many potential flaws, but I still didn't want to shoot you because of it.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
January 18 2016 20:28 GMT
#711
Thanks to everyone who shat on my ASM read. My track record for pushing scum still perfect of late.
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
January 18 2016 21:20 GMT
#712
That's pretty much just Rayn geript and I don't know if you noticed, but he was batting appx -1000
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
January 18 2016 21:23 GMT
#713
I'm going to go ahead and say it. Even though ultimately rayn and HF's little tizzy ended up ending this game, I for one appreciate the fact that the gamma-irradiated profanity monster that rayn usually becomes was able to lie dormant for this game. :D
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-18 23:22:03
January 18 2016 23:19 GMT
#714
On January 18 2016 22:43 Holyflare wrote:
Of course you should, I only agreed to replace into the first game because it was starting and I was asked to /in last second. If it could have been that you got more people for a reroll I would have gone on the replacement list again.

I also didn't have time to see a reroll and contact you since I had my pm already.

Either way I stuck it out and people spammed the thread from obs and while the host message wasn't intended to be directed towards me it wouldn't have necessarily been posted if I was mafia. Rayn sure took my posts and the obs spam and the host message to mean I was town at least. You should be requesting bans for those people.



huh, I didn't see what happened (haven't read this game) but as a general rule it's super super unacceptable for observers to post in the game thread. Like that shit should NOT be allowed in ongoing games, at all. As a host you gotta pm people or post in the thread and let them know not to do this

On January 19 2016 06:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and say it. Even though ultimately rayn and HF's little tizzy ended up ending this game, I for one appreciate the fact that the gamma-irradiated profanity monster that rayn usually becomes was able to lie dormant for this game. :D


so... this was a "Good" rayn performance then kekeke
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
January 19 2016 22:21 GMT
#715
On January 19 2016 01:26 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2016 01:15 sicklucker wrote:
I agree with jat. An invite game shouldnt be terrible people just made it terrible. You just dont fucking accept if you dont want to play. ITs not like theres any prestige being invited anyway. Literally half the community was in it lol.

Theres no obligation its not like you were picked out of 100 candidates. Its like 13-20 people of 40 candidate some of which are coag


Lol, why do you think lex and i were hosting? More seriously, I think both camps are right. I do think that people feel more obligated to accept when personally asked to join an invite game by someone, but you and jat are right to say that this feeling is illogical. If you don't have time, don't play. It's the same to me as, if you don't feel like you can play both alignments, don't /in. Everyone knows what they're getting into when they sign up.

Also @kita...yeah. It's a little silly how often people blather on about mod confirmations, and how often hosts have to consider what an action will appear to be even if it's not that at all to someone with limited or no information. I honestly don't actually care if people use faulty logic for their reads. We all do at one time or another. It's only a problem when they use it as an excuse to break the rules and ruin the game for all the other players.

It was as disappointing for me to see behavior like this from the so-called "best" of TL as no doubt it was for the players who were actually looking forward to this game. I just hope the people who need to take something from how it played out do.

Notes for future rsoultin hosting:
1) re-confirmations if necessary
2) be more clear with host posts (I actually think that simply saying "anyone who isn't a player or a host should stop posting in an on-going game" might have prevented some of the nuttiness here, but hindsight and all that.)

That said, also open to any other suggestions. I know hosts can't control players but I can't help but feel that we probably could have done something to keep this better contained.


On January 19 2016 06:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and say it. Even though ultimately rayn and HF's little tizzy ended up ending this game, I for one appreciate the fact that the gamma-irradiated profanity monster that rayn usually becomes was able to lie dormant for this game. :D


These two posts somewhat summarize why I didn't accept my invite.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 19 2016 22:27 GMT
#716
Wave just wants it to be known that he was invited
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
January 19 2016 22:47 GMT
#717
On January 20 2016 07:27 kitaman27 wrote:
Wave just wants it to be known that he was invited

IM SPESHUL DONT YOU TAKE THAT AWAY FROM ME
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
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