EPTOUTLAW MINI MAFIA
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Palmar
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a) voting me b) "focusing on read accuracy" c) being kush | ||
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The reason I'm giving exo a maybe townread is his tinfoil hat theory regarding the mason claims. Most players who construct convoluted conspiracy theories, end up being townies. (If Exo is mafia, he would already know whether or not one or more of the mason claimers are mafia, so creating a theory becomes both more difficult, and it would make him worry about appearing to have extra information). | ||
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Am I right to assume that coag/rsoultin are basically claimed masons so I can ignore them for now? Do we have any other claims? | ||
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On December 28 2015 20:14 ExO_ wrote: What post did he make that was solid thinking? Seriously Palmar has hardly posted anything at all so far, I'd like to know what you thought was so solid about Palmar so far that you think hes town I'm going to guess he's talking about the post where I provided some solid thinking. | ||
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On December 28 2015 20:19 ExO_ wrote: We talking about the flying cows post? Or perhaps the one about the spiders dancing for the Queen of England, before eating her alive! Oh wait, just like the post with your solid thinking, none of those exist. Just because I'm a nice guy (really...) On December 28 2015 18:50 Palmar wrote: Exo is probably town. Also, I've read about 10 posts in the thread now and checked a few filter lengths. I'm glad rayn is playing and HF has a shorter than expected filter. But I haven't really read anything from either of them yet. The reason I'm giving exo a maybe townread is his tinfoil hat theory regarding the mason claims. Most players who construct convoluted conspiracy theories, end up being townies. (If Exo is mafia, he would already know whether or not one or more of the mason claimers are mafia, so creating a theory becomes both more difficult, and it would make him worry about appearing to have extra information). The idea here is that I called you town and gave a reason for it. For the sake of this exercise let's consider you town, because otherwise this is a pointless effort. So as a townie, you have just been called town by someone, your job is now to figure out: a) Did Palmar want to call me town and made up some excuse to do it b) Did Palmar see something he found interesting, and made a conclusion based on the evidence These are really the only two options, you either believe the reason I gave for giving you a "maybe townread", or you don't. Ticktock probably reached the conclusion that my train of thought is genuine, that I actually believe you wouldn't come up with the theory you came up with as mafia, and thus my post was sincere. Now, interestingly, it's my job to try to figure out if Ticktock genuinely liked my post, or if he just saw me post something with some reasoning and decided to call me town for it because he wanted to do that anyway. | ||
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On December 28 2015 20:57 ExO_ wrote: I think it's a really easy read. What's interesting to me is you mention what went down with rsoultin/coag and the masons. So clearly you've read the thread. However you've only townread me so far, which is a pretty easy call to make at this point. Which makes me think you're trying to get town points for town reading me, when in reality it was a very easy thing to do. Town reading me can't be the only thing you have to offer. There's nothing particularly insightful about going along with what the rest of the thread has said before you. Any other thoughts, any scum reads? So far I think you look far more scummy trying to win a bit of town cred, than a late-to-the-party townie trying to solve the game. I haven't read the thread. I've skimmed like 2 filters and read these last 2-3 pages. | ||
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On December 28 2015 21:05 ExO_ wrote: To be honest I don't believe you. If you were skimming around the part where I went off on rsoultin/coag you should know that I've been town read by most everyone. That being the case, it'd be easy to call me town, and what I said about trying to get town cred for making a townie read that everyone else has already made holds true. I had no idea anyone else called you town. If you want a full disclosure on how I obtained the read on you it was like this: I respect rayn as a player so I clicked his filter and went right to his last page. on the top of page 8 of rayn's filter there is a conversation that involves all the required knowledge for me to draw the conclusions I have drawn (both about coag/rsoultin being the masons, and the evidence I used to draw the conclusion you might be town). | ||
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I think my world is going to be instantly better if I pretend that you don't exist. so I'll do that from now on. | ||
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On December 28 2015 21:21 ExO_ wrote: The progression of our conversation just now: Palmar hasn't been around at all for this game so far Enters the thread by by town reading me, specifically for the masons incident with rsoultin/coag Claims he hasn't read any of the thread and that had no idea anybody else town read me I'm not sure I believe his claim that he's read so little, or that he had no idea anybody else townread me. I think he's lying, and therefore I think he's scum. you're a moron, read the conversation I pointed towards. Do you think I just randomly came up in three minutes with exactly the conversation that happens to contain exactly all the information needed to make the conclusions I have. I must go to my happy place. | ||
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Here, jesus. | ||
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Why null? Don't you think I should be confirmed town for actually telling the truth and backing it up? | ||
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you have 5 minutes. Explain why Exo is being completely retarded. If you can, free townread. | ||
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time is up kush. I genuinely wonder if Kush understood the question he asked. Like, koshi clearly shows that he understands what happened, but it boils down to this: Kush questioning Exo's read on me only makes sense if Kush actually understand why Exo's accusations are dumb. If he doesn't know why Exo is being a moron, then Kush has no business asking the question he just asked. | ||
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The making of a great case is a lost art. | ||
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On December 28 2015 22:49 Koshi wrote: Palmar Palm Palmer Can't you just find us a mafia? I thought you were just describing your greatness with that example about how you were right on Chrom. I was slightly aroused and willing to follow your enticing butt into whatever battle you chose. But no, not yet. Although I'm annoyed kush hasn't responded to me about why he implied to exo that I should be a null read. | ||
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I'll try to make a few more reads, especially on the candidates (and I guess I'll read whatever artanis told me to), but yeah, this start was sort of unfortunate for me. | ||
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On December 28 2015 23:32 nooniansoong wrote: I don't know what you are looking for here but okay... I didn't think you had done anything that warrented a scumread. You read a filter and called someone town from what you read. You approached the game in the same way I would if I were in your position of having 60 unread pages. So Exo's sudden scumread of you seemed inappropriate, and I wanted to get a better idea of what logic he was basing it on. I suppose I can understand Exo thinking you might be scum playing dumb in order to excuse yourself from having to look townie. Meeehhhh~~~~ that's not entirely correct. Exo accused me, specifically, of lying about having not read the game. I provided pretty solid evidence that I was telling the truth and he just doubled down. The thing is, if I am lying about not having read the game (which would btw be an enormously dumb lie), I should be mafia, Exo is not wrong there. The problem is, I pretty much demonstrated that I was telling the truth. So the reason to question his scumread on me is that one of his main premises for calling me mafia turned out to be invalid. Technically it should make you mafia that you defended me without actually understanding why you should be defending me but I don't know. I'll make that call later. | ||
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On December 29 2015 00:17 Vivax wrote: At least you should agree I'm a pretty easy to read person on the contrary, I can barely stand reading your filters. | ||
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On December 29 2015 00:20 Vivax wrote: Do you stand it more when im mafia or when im town I have no idea | ||
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Serious claim? Either retract it now, or you will be auto-lynched/shot if we ever find out there is another JK. (hint: even if you are JK you should retract it). | ||
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On December 29 2015 00:25 nooniansoong wrote: Your proof had nothing to do with why I questioned that read. I'm not sure Exo "doubled down" after your proof. Perhaps he didn't yet see or understand your proof when he doubled down. I think it would be interesting to see if he still thinks you're scum or admits to making a mistake. I barely care though. Exo is a loud asshole who I had previously townread based on one post. People who a) I townread on one post b) are loud assholes tend to be town. So I'm just going to ignore him. I see no reason to even consider lynching him today. | ||
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On December 29 2015 00:26 Coagulation wrote: palms blue hunting? I'm so glad you're mason because it makes your existence in the game completely irrelevant to me. IE: I don't have to deal with your useless ass at all! | ||
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On December 29 2015 00:27 Vivax wrote: Ofc its serious, Im committing Sudoku by mafia NK before I have to talk more to these airheads Guess we're not lynching you then. /shrug If someone else is JK (IE: Vivax is lying) he should 100% claim because it's free mafia. Your role is not more important than free mafia lynch. | ||
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He said: "TT is different from mafiaTT last game. This could mean a) burnt out mafiaTT or b) townTT (the latter is more likely)". It's not a particularly insightful or good read, but I don't think it's a logical leap. | ||
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On December 29 2015 00:36 Coagulation wrote: Palm is scum. Hes excusing himself for it here. excusing for what? | ||
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On December 29 2015 00:38 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Palmar is not scum though. tmi, scum. | ||
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On December 29 2015 00:40 Holyflare wrote: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ whatever then I still just want to lynch Vivax for even signing up Did I miss anything, was that a wrong interpretation from me? Or do you now see the conversation the way I read it? Did you change your mind about it? Kush is still a fine lynch, even if that wasn't a slip. His vote on me is terrible because he's played with me enough times to know that I don't care about pressure votes and that I always show up to play in the end, especially after weekends. His defense of me then towards Exo was weird too. We're not killing vivax unless he gets cc'd of course. | ||
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On December 29 2015 00:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I've been kind of busy playing Left 4 Dead. Actually not that interesting a game honestly. But yeah, you should probably comment on it. You are a fountain of enthusiasm. | ||
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On December 29 2015 00:44 Vivax wrote: Kush is town and you should know it Plammar Can you explain why? | ||
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On December 29 2015 00:47 Holyflare wrote: it's a logical leap because he has no input in any other player in the game at that point and just miraculously after saying the player is a burnt out mafia decides that he is town because it is statistically likely which is bs if you're trying to find mafia and have no reads on anyone else I just couldn't be bothered to have a discussion about the obvious. yeah this is context I did not have from your quote. I have no idea where in the game this conversation happened or what kush had said before or after that. Doesn't really matter much, pending further reading kush is still the guy I'd lynch today. | ||
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On December 29 2015 00:48 Vivax wrote: He doesnt try to be a factor in the game as mafia, as mafia he has the mafia version of Alzheimers and just talks about odd stuff. In this game he even says good stuff! as a counterpoint, he repeatedly fucks up as mafia by being less wrong than he is as town. In general one of kush's biggest scumtells is that he's right about things. | ||
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On December 29 2015 00:48 Vivax wrote: But yea you can sheep HF like the other tools who lose to him when hes mafia If HF is mafia, you know it, and you fail to convince the rest of us of it, the loss is on you. Being right in mafia is only half the battle. You're semi-confirmed town until counterclaimed, use your powers for good! (even powers gained through being dumb and bratty can be turned against the mafia). | ||
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On December 29 2015 00:55 Vivax wrote: Which I'm sure you can tell on D1 without flips. Oh you so smart Plmarr Mafia is HF, ritoky, The Shining, Moosey and 1-2 other guys I didnt look at yet The point is, if you're agreeing with him, you must think he's being right, and thus you should start thinking he's mafia. | ||
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On December 29 2015 00:57 Vivax wrote: The loss is on the masses not the individual, by your logic Nazis had no fault and instead the guy who failed to win elections instead of HItler godwin'd, nice. You cannot control other people, you can only control your own actions and how you present your arguments. Follow the instructions in this video for more information: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=25174229 | ||
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are you sheepable this game? | ||
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I'll just sheep you then! | ||
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On December 29 2015 02:37 GlowingBear wrote: Also, Palmar, if you hadn't read anything and you didn't catch up, how do you know coag and rsoultin are masons? How can you not know the answer to this when the argument That followed was literally about the very source of my info | ||
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On December 29 2015 07:57 Rels wrote: Well fuck you all. I'm going to sleep regardless of the flip. Good night Such excited for the game he can't wait 3 minutes | ||
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On December 29 2015 18:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Honestly impressed he lasted as long as he did. Anyone living his lifestyle should've died age 40. Also, people are calling you mafia. You might want to address that. People can go fuck themselves. Do they have a reason? | ||
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On December 29 2015 15:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Personal lynch candidates for tomorrow:
I don't really have good reasons to want to lynch HF yet other than him being the strongest active player I'm not townreading and some tone shit yet. Also need to go through Palmar a bit better. Personal don't ever lynch list:
Probably also don't lynch Vivax, GB and Ness though I'm getting a bit less sure of the latter. I kind of agree with the town part of this list, the exceptions being Damdred and SL. I think Koshi is very likely to be town, I know he can do the spiteful thing against Vivax as both alignments, but it seems more likely he's town because he genuinely doesn't give a fuck. Trfel said something I liked, I can't remember exactly what, but I remember him talking when I came to the thread yesterday. Rayn seems agitated/interested enough and I've already explained why ExO is town. I haven't really read Damdred, it feels like he's been sort of background-y throughout the game, and I just ignore everything SL says because he's bad. As for the mafia part, it's really 4 people I haven't read that much. If HF is calling me mafia he might be one though. TickTock I'd sheep for rayn if he asked me. OWS I haven't read but I can't remember a single thing he posted so he could very well be mafia. Or well, he said he liked me, I like that. I think I saw ritoky make a huge case on someone though I didn't read it in detail. I thought that in general tryhard ritoky is town, but it's not really a read, more of an assumption | ||
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This is dumb rayn. What if Rels had flipped mafia? Would you still be calling me mafia? 1) I didn't read the thread in detail as I wasn't around at home last night, but I was under the impression you had left the TickTock wagon and I assumed you had a reason for that. Which is why I was actively looking for other things to do. I just looked at the voting thread really. 2) I am finding out now that Vivax unclaimed. He should 100% be shot for that. [/QUOTE] I sheeped rayn, rayn moved off his target, I say I'm willing to move mostly because I assume rayn moved from ticktock for a good reason, the shennies happen on rels, lead by koshi who I think is town, so I quickly pop open rels' filter. It's less than 1 page. I go "fuck it" and decide to lynch him. Do you need more explanation? | ||
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On December 29 2015 18:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: Especially if you know i moved off from TT you also know that i moved to EXACTLY Vivax and the onöy reason i would ever do that is that Vivax unclaimed which makes everything you said in your post a lie since "you just now found out Vivax unclaimed". Your story does not add up. You moved to Vivax for what I kinda assumed were spite reasons for him being a dumbass and outing a blue role in the thread, which is exactly why I didn't move after you. | ||
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a) rayn has found another mafia and is moving to lynch that guy b) rayn has a reason to think ticktock won't flip mafia and moves somewhere else clearly, what I meant with that is b). Everything I did/have said, supports exactly that. | ||
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answered in the next post. | ||
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On December 29 2015 18:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I kind of want Palmar to focus his efforts on HF. I feel it's most likely to result in something we can read both of them on. If rayn is dug in I might as well move on to do other things because there's no breaks on the raynwagon. I probably have some time today, I'll shift through some filters. I hate reading HF, but I might read him anyway. | ||
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So even if TT is town, this was good for mafia, especially if in the process people who aren't mafia (me, for example) are being implicated. | ||
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On December 29 2015 18:57 ExO_ wrote: so why did you switch then? You didn't even post in the main thread that you were switching I thought I did? | ||
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Well sorry about that. I already explained why I switched. | ||
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On December 29 2015 18:59 ExO_ wrote: and continuing on this line of thought, if it is in mafia's favor am I supposed to believe that 9 townies switched their votes at the last second? I don't think I do No absolutely not, there's definitely mafia in there. It's just not me. | ||
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On December 29 2015 19:01 ExO_ wrote: that's about it. No mention of rels or anything else. No I didn't I meant to post something like "Rels has a 1 page filter so fuck it". Apparently I didn't. I just posted that remark about his lack of enthusiasm for the game (who so desperately needs to sleep in the next 3 minutes he doesn't stay up for the lynch?) | ||
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who knows | ||
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On December 29 2015 19:04 Vivax wrote: Well hey at least i didnt lynch rels like plammar did. He has townie blood on his hands You're bad. | ||
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Btw, because I'm already scummy. I'm going to direct blues for a bit. Gunsmiths: it's super duper important you give your guns to non-retards. Give them to people who know how to use vigilante roles. Here's a guide for those who want to become good vigilantes: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/232671-how-to-play-vigilante-and-how-to-play-cop Also, because I'm tired of everyone's shit, I wouldn't mind getting cop checked at all. I normally say it's a waste but I might not have the energy to argue myself out of a lynch this game (and the deadline is literally at 23:00 new year's eve my time... so I will be drunk and playing with fireworks instead of playing mafia). | ||
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Town: Coag (mason) Rsoultin (mason) Maybe Town: rayn: he's annoyingly suspicious of me but most of the other things he has done this game look like town rayn. He's agitated but involved. He doesn't take bullshit and he does the thing which he always does as town. When he called me out based on the switch to Vivax thing earlier today it was a super red text/green text rayn moment, even if it was based on him misunderstanding Exo: I'm less sure because he hasn't done jack shit today and I feel like he was not much involved yesterday. However I think the point I made yesterday about his paranoid scenario regarding the masons is still much more likely to come from town. Koshi: He lead the shennies which isn't scummy at all. He's also been spiteful and tonally "correct" this game. He isn't timid and doesn't ask shitty questions. It's mostly a tone read but still, I think it's ok. Maaaaaaaaybe town: HF: He hasn't said anything particularly annoying that I've noticed, and I also feel like he isn't actively looking for a fight which he does a ton as mafia. He off-handedly called GB mafia yesterday in such a casual way. He's perfectly capable of playing like this as mafia, but if I try to not be too paranoid I'd probably bet on town. Trfel: He said something at some point that I liked. I can't really remember what or why, but I'm trusting my earlier read until I have a reason not to Other people I know something about but don't really have an opinion on: Vivax: Should be shot. Can't be allowed to live until lylo, but I have no idea if he's scum or just a moron. Ritoky: He made a case that I didn't read, but at least he made a case so... idk? Damdred: I don't remember him saying anything particularly intelligent which is a good way to townread him, and I feel like he's been background-y and meh. But I also know that usually when I think Damdred is mafia he isn't. People I haven't read/don't remember/decided to ignore Onegu sicklucker OO Moosey boxerfred ness Slam Obiwan Shining Ticktock There's probably quite a few mafia in this list. if I'm wrong about 1-2 of my scummy people there's 2-4 mafia in the peopel that I've ignored because that's the way it always is. I'll try to work on this list tonight and tomorrow if I'm alive. Maybe scum: Kush: Bad vote on me, called out Exo for things he didn't understand. He's been pretty shit all over Artanis: he's being super reasonable and willing to listen to people. I know he isn't rayn or some other tunnel god, but still, it's a bit over the top how much he's trying to let other people form their own opinions and barely prodding it. Just like yesterday I didn't read his ows case I haven't read hf today and he doesn't really seem to care. Probably scum: GlowingBear: called me out in a really awkward way yesterday and then got into a argument I think. The main thing is that he was reading a conversation about a thing, and then asked about the very thing the conversation was about. It's 100% clear he wasn't actually reading the part of the thread he asked about, he just saw something and ran with it. | ||
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On December 29 2015 23:16 GlowingBear wrote: Palmar how do you read me? you have your answer | ||
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On December 29 2015 23:26 GlowingBear wrote: You don't portray this scum read on me in this post. What happened? Did you forget your read on me? uh what? you are not in Artanis' list so why would I talk about you in my post? | ||
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well I was commenting on the people in the lists. | ||
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On December 30 2015 00:01 Vivax wrote: Just when I started to feel good about Palmar I read this and realize he probably has no real read on me and just spends time bitching about my claim? I actively avoid reading your posts. Maybe you can just tell me yourself, have you contributed anything to finding mafia this game? If I were to open your filter, would I find a case? some reads with reasons? Or just you arguing with people? | ||
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On December 30 2015 00:13 Vivax wrote: So thats your excuse for not having a read. WP Well will I? I haven't hidden the fact I have a read on barely half the players in the game. What I know about you is that you claimed like a retard and then retracted it. I also know that you've argued and antagonized people. On it's own this is justification enough to shoot you, but of course it's entirely possible you're just town and a dick/baddie. So help me out here, what should be my read on you and why? | ||
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On December 30 2015 00:36 Vivax wrote: Yes I argued and antagonized people and now you're going to explain how it's my mafia meta when half the forum knows its exactly the opposite Why would I do that when I don't believe that myself? If I believed that was your mafia meta I'd be calling you mafia wouldn't I? You literally make no sense. | ||
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On December 30 2015 00:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Palmar, you should probably tell your scumteam to shoot me because if I'm alive tomorrow, I shall bring down the thunder upon you and get you lynched as you are most likely mafia. I don't believe this and I think this post makes you mafia. There is no way that you act reasonable and amiable towards me this morning and when I start mentioning it you're suddenly ready to "bring down the thunder". It's not a believable change in attitude and it makes you mafia every time. On December 30 2015 00:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I might just yell lynch Palmar all day kinda like he did to Toad in Hammertime. Wonder if it'd work. Same thing. To clarify to others: I do not believe the change (or complete shift) in attitude by Artanis towards me is genuine. I think it is heavily influenced by me calling him out for the relaxed attitude earlier. | ||
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On December 30 2015 00:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also if I'm right on Palmar I don't think OWS is scum because I don't think two scum are going to be the only ones to attack me when everyone else is townreading me. But you definitely think the one guy who does is scum. Especially the one that both lead the suspicion and the one that actually provided reasoning. If you are somehow town, you should dismiss my suspicions as just that and actually consider me more favorably for actually exploring things that others aren't exploring. OWS is barely attacking you, he said like one sentence about you. Even I am not really attacking you, I just pointed out a tonal thing that looks a bit off and could make you mafia, and you decided to make a u-turn on everything because of those two little things. There is no way that you genuinely 100% believe that my suspicion of you can ONLY come from mafia perspective. | ||
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On December 30 2015 01:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote: No, you have no focus. You haven't had focus all game. You're just spewing out what you think gets you townread. Your effort has not been in finding scum. I don't need to convince you that you're scum though. At what point did you discover I had no focus and thus I must be killed with a vengeance? Because I don't recall you mentioning anything of the sort before right now? What do you even mean by focus? | ||
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"Could probably lynch Palmar" "Should look more into Palmar" etc But no reasons, no proof that he has actually read it. Then he returns to the thread and suddenly it's "I WILL LITERALLY SKULLFUCK YOUR CORPSE PALMAR", and I'm like "dude relax". The only reasonable explanation is that artanis actually read through my filter and now believes he found something. The problem of course is he's been bitching about not being able to play so I really doubt that. I also feel like he would've mentioned it if he read through my filter. This makes him mafia every time. | ||
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On December 30 2015 01:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: You're prodding everywhere but you're not actually doing anything. Everything you do and read seems convenient and focused more on just posting things than anything else. No I'm not. The only thing that is barely true is that yes, I am mostly interacting with the things that are in the thread when I am in the thread. Other than that, this is just bullshit. | ||
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On December 30 2015 01:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote: You weren't like this in Hammertime. You weren't like this in Noir. You weren't like this in Tropical Storm. Funny thing is, in LXX you actually townread me for being fairly casual in interacting with you, yet you scumread me for it this game. The same thing you're scumreading me for this game. Lol. I was mafia in that game... jesus | ||
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On December 30 2015 01:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I actually still haven't gone through your filter again. I'm going simply from recollection. I don't think this is a wise duel for you to take though. No I'm fine with it. | ||
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On December 30 2015 01:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Alright. What original thoughts have you brought to the thread? Exo's tinfoil = town thing GB's inconsistent questioning HF's calling out of GB being sort of townie Your attitude being distant/weird/uninterested Koshi toneread hell, just go throught the list I literally pasted a page back or so. Most of the things I think about the game are in that list. | ||
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On December 30 2015 01:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So you're saying that you didn't believe in that read? Whenever I'm mafia, I usually make reads that I'd actually believe in/follow the reasoning of if I were town presuming they're not completely inconvenient. I'd imagine it's much the same for everyone else, especially when you're townreading someone. Whenever I'm mafia I make reads that are convenient. And I have no idea if I genuinely believed that read because I already knew you were town that game, so I just made it up on the spot because it sounded right. Even then, there is a massive difference between casual and indifferent. | ||
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On December 30 2015 01:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm actually quite bummed out scum's going to probably let me live now  Artanis speculates his team will not shoot him. | ||
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On December 30 2015 01:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Already mentioned by two people before you. Already mentioned by HF. Already agreed upon by Rayn and myself. Extremely shitty. Already made by me. The fact other people have the same thoughts as me does not invalidate mine. And I doubt anyone explained the exo thing with the reason I did, although I don't quite know. | ||
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On December 30 2015 01:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So you have no idea if you believed whether you can meta read me for being relaxed when you've used it to call me scum this game. Yeah, okay. Literally not what I said. | ||
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Artanis you're scum, or terrible, but I kinda think you're scum because you're not always terrrible. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OZQ0uUA.jpg) | ||
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On December 30 2015 01:56 nooniansoong wrote: I really don't like it when people call people bad. It's unproductive and mean. not to mention accurate | ||
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On December 30 2015 02:26 GlowingBear wrote: Palmar how do you read HF? 100% scum | ||
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Gb still remains on top of the list but koshi rises sharply | ||
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Thanks for clarifying that. | ||
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On December 30 2015 08:17 Koshi wrote: ##Vote Palmar You're bad. Stay bad son. | ||
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On December 30 2015 08:19 Koshi wrote: Artanis is bad too. | ||
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On December 30 2015 08:21 Koshi wrote: Nha. I take full credit for this one. I am sure you are mafia. I actually have a pretty good tell. whatever, you're habitually terrible at reading me because you can't get over your own paranoia. | ||
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On December 30 2015 08:25 Koshi wrote: Like literally fucking unbelievable insane how fucking terrible you are at this game Onegu. ![[image loading]](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/J88tzUXG9GI/maxresdefault.jpg) | ||
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On December 30 2015 08:53 Koshi wrote: No I hope Onegu is VT fakeclaiming I hope TT is actual gunsmith and that the real DT is going to claim soon. PLEASE. PLEASE PLEASE GOD. This would be pretty amazing. | ||
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Sorry guys | ||
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On December 31 2015 03:56 Holyflare wrote: Ebwop: Above is post from a previous town game and below is palmar wifoming mafia nks. I don't know what this makes you. You know I always give people the advice "do not use meta". This is basically one of the most common things I tell people. Do you think I don't use meta myself though? Are you going to lynch me every game where I say something that looks like meta? I'm feel like shit but I'm not going to go through old games, but I'm relatively certain that at least two games you should know about have I made conclusions or at least talked about the possible implications of night kills. One of them was rsoultin dying on n1 in XXX and the other was some kind of a duel game where rayn (i think) died n0 and I instantly duelled marv simply because the night kills looked like marv kills. I'm pretty sure you even made the same point about the night kills. I absolutely do use night kills as evidence in some situations. There are no hard rules in mafia, but there are guidelines people should follow. I am not mafia, yes I fucked up on ticktock yesterday, but I also want to emphasize I had nothing invested in the vote on him. It was simply a sheep on rayn who later left the wagon. It sucks that I didn't stay on tictock, but so be it. I went for a random yolo lynch on a normally active player who had less than 1 page of filter (look, palmar used meta!!!). I hadn't, and still haven't, read tictock's filter or really any of his posts, and thankfully I don't have to. This does not make me mafia. There's some sort of a crowd scare thing going on where people have just started yelling "Palmar is mafia" without actually having any reasons to do so. Artanis said I "lacked focus", which is wrong. If people want to lynch me for inactivity, fine. At least that is something that actually has happened. I have been inactive and only read the game very selectively. It's christmas and I don't think I'm a liability to town. I may not be the greatest asset of town when I'm playing at half steam, but that doesn't matter. I pay enough attention and make enough reads and points so people should be able to find my alignment from that, and perhaps use some of the things I say as evidence or nuggets for further investigation. Koshi is a moron who basically starts yelling for my head whenever I am not both playing supertown AND actually hitting mafia. I am sort of fine with him being an idiot. It bothers me far more that there are other people who literally think I'm mafia out of some paranoia that if I'm not lynching scum left and right I must be mafia. It's not surprising I missed tictock yesterday, I hadn't read him! I know I always say people I ignore tend ot be mafia, but he's just one of maybe 10 people I've barely touched. | ||
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It's a point I can understand why he'd make it. | ||
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lynch-palmar-days are actually surprisingly productive sometimes. | ||
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On December 31 2015 07:01 Koshi wrote: slam is mafia. This is entirely possible. | ||
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Like I don't think it's something I need to worry about until we've flipped other people (gb? some of the lurkers? people keep saying slam is mafia). | ||
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On January 02 2016 07:32 Holyflare wrote: I wanted to see palmar's reaction to being shot. What information did you gain? | ||
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The blue guy tried to claim Miller after being checked by a fake cop | ||
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On January 02 2016 14:24 Trfel wrote: Why are you townreading Palmar? Mysteriously kush is right on my alignment when everyone else is being dumb. I can think of two reasons as to why this would happen. | ||
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On January 03 2016 00:23 ObiWanShinobi wrote: How so? Can you elaborate on why we shouldn't lynch Palmar? He knows I'm not mafia. There is no way I believe that when I have for some reason played in a way where literally everyone scumreads me that kush is the hero who actually makes the right call. He's probably either mafia himself (and playing his classic TMI card) or he's the cop and actually checked me n1. | ||
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Now we have to lynch Onegu and Damdred, although they should 100% focus on not defending themselves but to try to build cases on people who they think might be scum. The best way to convince me to not lynch them is to make someone else a higher lynch target priority. | ||
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I still think we should kill GB though. Like I guess I'll make the case at some point, but I've been saying it since day 1. He asked a question that was implicitly answered in the passage of things that were being talked about where he picked up on the idea to ask that question. This means he wasn't actually reading, he just saw something he could create a question on and went with it. | ||
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On January 04 2016 01:53 NocturneMage wrote: Alright, so if I am to trust Onegu's meta or your reads of his meta that he can do this as both alignments, then I'll switch my vote to Palmar. Confirmed mason is also pointing us in that direction last I saw, surely he can be trusted on top of all the NK WIFOM. ##unvote ##vote Palmar I'll pick up reading the thread from where I left off. The point about coagulation is super overjustified. It's guaranteed that not all the people who are calling me mafia are scum, so knowing that one random guy, who also happens to be terrible at mafia, should not in any way strengthen your vote. | ||
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There is no way they're both mafia. The reason for this is that they both look bad when tictock flips. It's too much invested into getting one random guy lynched. Even if mafia knew he was a role. IF mafia knows he's a role (rolecop) only damdred can be mafia (and not onegu) because there is no way onegu claims a red on him as mafia, knowing he'll just claim blue and will never be cc'd. We also know (from the nightkills on n2) that mafia had not at day 2 hit any townies with the rolecop (JK/Cop is autokill and the masons are already outed). So, either the mafia rolecop missed, or it hit tt, in which case only damdred can be mafia. On the other hand, if mafia had no idea what tt's role was, onegu can be mafia, and if he is, damdred is almost certainly not, because people (like myself) were actively calling for the gunsmith not to CC tictock. The only problem with this theory is why would onegu go 1 for 1 on someone whose role he doesn't know and who is so scummy that people were literally mad that he didn't get lynched on day 1. It's just not worth it. So, technically it's more likely damdred is mafia, but I really, really think they're both town. | ||
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On January 04 2016 07:43 Trfel wrote: Palmar, why did you decide that nooniansoong is town? What exactly made you think that Onegu and Damdred are not good lynches today, I'm having trouble understanding what you're getting at. That post regarding kush was sarcastic. He is still a good lynch, mostly for basically TMI on me. There is no way kush suddenly became better at figuring out alignments than those other people. | ||
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On January 04 2016 07:43 Trfel wrote: Palmar, why did you decide that nooniansoong is town? What exactly made you think that Onegu and Damdred are not good lynches today, I'm having trouble understanding what you're getting at. I was just writing it up | ||
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Probably town for some reason: Coag Onegu Damdred Exo Trfel ritoky No idea: sl OO Shining OWS slam Scummy for some reason: kush gb nocturnmage Some guys I want to say something about a) I could lynch slam, I never try to read him, I always rely on other people to do it for me. However his rage a bit out of character (he's almost always fairly jolly) so there's that. b) I was somehow under the impression shining had replaced into the game, but turns out he's been here the whole time. I don't remember literally a single thing he's written, which makes him a pretty good candidate for mafia c) I might have to downgrade ritoky, my previous townread from yesterday was mostly due to the fact he wrote a case on someone I thought would flip mafia (I think I made that point to HF). I haven't read more from him. The shot was ok though, moosy could very well have flipped mafia. It was the right way to use vigilante. | ||
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On January 04 2016 07:53 Trfel wrote: Palmar, given how Tictock didn't claim his role despite barely avoiding being lynched Day 1, why would you expect mafia to rolecop him? I'd think that they'd barely prefer rolechecking Tictock to rolechecking themselves. You don't think that Onegu can be mafia for the WIFOM play? sure, but it can simply go wrong in too many ways for mafia. And yes, I agree it's super unlikely mafia rolechecked tt (although I hadn't thought of the part where he didn't claim on day 1, that's a good point) and then went after him. It's just not that likely he goes for a big play to kill a random player who is in most cases going to flip vanilla like that. | ||
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On January 04 2016 07:55 The Shining wrote: For the Onegu theory, isn't it possible an RC that isn't Damdred RCd TT and it was shared in scum QT? If Onegu is a goon, him going 1 for 1 to eliminate the GS before a 2nd gun is given out makes total sense. No, because if mafia knows tt is gunsmith, they expect tt to just instantly claim that when onegu claims his red check, and when he's not counterclaimed by anyone, Onegu gets lynched for trying to lynch an uncc'd gunsmith. Mafia could not have guessed tictock would fumble around, claim miller and then gunsmith. | ||
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But there is 100% no way that kush, for two days in a row or something, is right about my alignment when rayn/artanis/hf/damdred/koshi/trfel and the list goes on are wrong. Literally the only other person I remember actually calling me town is rsoultin. (I think she did). It's really annoying, but it's also glaringly obvious. Kush either knows I'm town (cop) or he's scum. | ||
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On January 04 2016 08:09 Trfel wrote: Oh, I didn't realize that he played in that game. I'll take a look. You expect town to not care about lynches? You expect town to not care about finding mafia? exhibit 1: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/500627-outlaw-mini-mafia?user=coagulation in short, yes. | ||
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On January 04 2016 08:12 Trfel wrote: I'm having trouble understanding your reads. I don't feel like you're actually pushing anything (except for the Artanis push, which was really awful for other reasons). It feels more like you're playing to survive rather than to solve the game. Sure, I'll check again tonight though. which read do you have trouble with? | ||
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On January 04 2016 08:17 Damdred wrote: I thought your vote oe on Rels was super opportunistic and if Tt was scum it would totally fit your meta of trying to help your team towards a common goal. Also lack of thread prescense early with a really lack of any type of push that I could see. There were a couple a spots that gave me pause and Tt flipping town has given me more pause to you and wanting to get my read right today. Why did you never talk about any of these things? | ||
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On December 30 2015 07:42 Damdred wrote: Emergency shifts at work are fun I had my analysis done but it's at home on ny conp. Just incase here's my reads without reasoning but will elaborate if I survive please if I die don't discredit I promise they are well reasoned and thought through. Town: Damdred Rsoultin/Coag Raynbabyrayn Artanis Shining Vivax Koshi Probably town: Gliwingbear Holyflare Exp Kush SL Rit Night action please Ticktock. This makes me uneasy as I feel could be town vs town. Nullish Onegu maybe I should trust rs read here I had town feels at one point. Ness what happened to our love it faded so quickly had him more town than null in my notes Scum lean: Slam Palmar Obvious one On January 03 2016 07:58 Damdred wrote: In case I die by ritoky shooting me or anything just a short post since stuck in traffic. Town: Damdred Coag Kush SL I think SL has a shot but if he's scum he is playing a really strong scum game and I congratulate him. Kush also would be playing great if he's scum I think but the possibility I'm drastically misreading him is present and I feel like hedging a small bit in that regard. Probably town Exo HF Koshi Shining Ritoky Out of this group in worried that ritoky is tricking me. His claiming the gun like he did wasn't like ritoky but I've seen him do similar things. Shinings inactivity bothers me so he's falling try to make him do things but I still think town. Vivax I would actually pay a lot of attention to, he fell off decently hard and hasn't really been pushing a lot or involved he's worth a bit of pushing on. Obvious one also deserves a bit his pushes and reads don't make a ton of sense to me or at least the reasoning. Plus general inactivity Moosey and his sudden burst of posting made me want to town read him but put pressure on him. GB has fallen off the face of the earth and just doesn't seem to care about pushing his thoughts right now or riding the scum train to death. I actually think he's possible scum again. If nm doesn't post a ton and just randomly scrwws off during his active times lynch him no matter what. I like obi as town here he's really not aucking up to people and trying to get on there good side. Its not a 100% read but I think its a good shot at town. Trfel idk me get be town or scum I'm really undecided without having my notes on hand. Oneg probably wouldn't go one v one unless he's like the scum big and just wants the rest of his shots to go through. Its total suicide but totally worth it if he goes 1 v 1 and all the big shots go off. It doesn't 100% mean he's town because he acted the way he did. Palmar is idk very possible scum currently Ran out of time if I'm alive after day I'll try to elaborate more That's it, I don't think you talked about me at all beside that | ||
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On January 04 2016 08:21 Trfel wrote: Sorry, I need to leave Sauna again. I'm going back to college tomorrow, there's no way that a game of mafia is going to take me away from my family.I can't remember stuff well, but off the top of my head.... Do you really think that it is a mechanically correct play for the cop to claim a green check to defend you? If not, why did you ask the cop to check you Night 1? I'm having a hard time understanding how you could scumread Onegu and Damdred so heavily right after the Tictock flip, and take this long to come around, when basically everyone else wasn't sure about reads on them shortly after the flip. Can you explain your Alakaslam read? It's good to be checked either way when people are scumreading me so much. And cop doesn't have to claim, in fact, wasn't it you who in like your first game or something (carol) who bossed around lynches WITHOUT claiming as a cop? I didn't scumread them hard, I just wanted to kill them. I don't think I ever mentioned a possible world where they're both mafia. I have no read on slam. The only thing I know is that his rage about the modding thing is very, very out of character for him. I generally don't have a read on slam (you can verify this in multiple games we've played). I am clearly not one with the chupazi or whatever because I have no idea how to figure him out. I just rely on other people doing it for me. (I basically don't read anything he writes). | ||
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On January 04 2016 08:22 Damdred wrote: While this is true you could also make the same argument how I approached hf. did you scumread hf? | ||
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I actually thought the reasonable answer to my original question would simply be that you were sheeping other people. But meh. | ||
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On December 28 2015 21:56 Palmar wrote: but ok. time is up kush. I genuinely wonder if Kush understood the question he asked. Like, koshi clearly shows that he understands what happened, but it boils down to this: Kush questioning Exo's read on me only makes sense if Kush actually understand why Exo's accusations are dumb. If he doesn't know why Exo is being a moron, then Kush has no business asking the question he just asked. | ||
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Onegu falls into a category of players that I almost never read. These players tend to not actually try to win the game at all. This means that most of my thoughts on Onegu are based on his red check claim on TT. I do not think Onegu is mafia. As I discussed earlier in this post here: On January 04 2016 07:47 Palmar wrote: I promised to talk about the onegu/damdred thing. There is no way they're both mafia. The reason for this is that they both look bad when tictock flips. It's too much invested into getting one random guy lynched. Even if mafia knew he was a role. IF mafia knows he's a role (rolecop) only damdred can be mafia (and not onegu) because there is no way onegu claims a red on him as mafia, knowing he'll just claim blue and will never be cc'd. We also know (from the nightkills on n2) that mafia had not at day 2 hit any townies with the rolecop (JK/Cop is autokill and the masons are already outed). So, either the mafia rolecop missed, or it hit tt, in which case only damdred can be mafia. On the other hand, if mafia had no idea what tt's role was, onegu can be mafia, and if he is, damdred is almost certainly not, because people (like myself) were actively calling for the gunsmith not to CC tictock. The only problem with this theory is why would onegu go 1 for 1 on someone whose role he doesn't know and who is so scummy that people were literally mad that he didn't get lynched on day 1. It's just not worth it. So, technically it's more likely damdred is mafia, but I really, really think they're both town. it is impossible that IF Onegu is mafia that mafia knew TT's role. Which begs the question, why would scumOnegu go 1 for 1 against a scummy player who half of town wanted to lynch anyway. I know it's entirely possible he just did it because fuck it and wifom, but the problem is, while it's easy to construct such scenarios as a town, it's very difficult to execute something so risky as mafia. In general when you play mafia you overestimate suspicions against you and you're unusually afraid of saying/doing shit that might be perceived as scummy. The problem, of course, is that Onegu would be a pretty terrible baggage to take into lylo, but I just don't think we have enough mislynches left to actually kill him before that point. Like there exists a world where Onegu is scum, but I don't think we have enough time to explore that world. So with that I'm simply going to assume he's town until further notice. | ||
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I generally don't read kush that closely, but I've had some opportunities to this game, mostly because he has talked a lot about me. There's two reasons to think Kush is mafia and one reason to maybe think he's not. I have already explained both the reasons to think he's mafia. Here's the first (and more important) one. On December 28 2015 21:56 Palmar wrote: but ok. time is up kush. I genuinely wonder if Kush understood the question he asked. Like, koshi clearly shows that he understands what happened, but it boils down to this: Kush questioning Exo's read on me only makes sense if Kush actually understand why Exo's accusations are dumb. If he doesn't know why Exo is being a moron, then Kush has no business asking the question he just asked. The context is this: On December 28 2015 21:08 Palmar wrote: I had no idea anyone else called you town. If you want a full disclosure on how I obtained the read on you it was like this: I respect rayn as a player so I clicked his filter and went right to his last page. on the top of page 8 of rayn's filter there is a conversation that involves all the required knowledge for me to draw the conclusions I have drawn (both about coag/rsoultin being the masons, and the evidence I used to draw the conclusion you might be town). Exo was arguing I must be mafia because he didn't believe I had just come into the thread and somehow made a case to call one of his actions townie. I pointed him towards a conversation that I had randomly opened in rayn's filter that contained the evidence I used to make that read. Kush, for some reason, decided to interject himself into that and ask Exo why I wouldn't be null instead of scumread. Koshi also interjected himself here: On December 28 2015 21:51 Koshi wrote: But I agree that it went like you said it went. Very unlikely you read entire thread and would be able to actually come up with that explanation on the spot. The difference between kush and koshi is that koshi clearly understood why Exo was being a dumbass. So I sort of pressured kush to provide a similar answer, which he never really did, although he did provide one here (open the quotes): On December 29 2015 00:25 nooniansoong wrote: Your proof had nothing to do with why I questioned that read. I'm not sure Exo "doubled down" after your proof. Perhaps he didn't yet see or understand your proof when he doubled down. I think it would be interesting to see if he still thinks you're scum or admits to making a mistake. The second thing is simply this: On January 04 2016 08:09 Palmar wrote: Like I know this does not matter to you guys. But there is 100% no way that kush, for two days in a row or something, is right about my alignment when rayn/artanis/hf/damdred/koshi/trfel and the list goes on are wrong. Literally the only other person I remember actually calling me town is rsoultin. (I think she did). It's really annoying, but it's also glaringly obvious. Kush either knows I'm town (cop) or he's scum. However, I'm also waffling on that. I really, really want to believe Kush can be town here, mostly because I vastly prefer this version of kush to all others I've encountered. He seems to be actually sort of trying this game. I am not going to advocate a kush lynch today. He should still be considered a prime suspect, and there's 5 mafia out there and I don't have 5 names that I think are more likely to flip mafia than him. I just think we have better targets today than him. It does help that kush actually made himself available to the thread while we were talking about him yesterday. It's just this sort of thing that makes me want to believe he might somehow be not scum. | ||
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I have far less to say about sicklucker. I haven't read most of his filter and I'm not going to go through 14 pages of his generally awful contributions to form a real opinion. He has been reasonable towards me (a recurring theme you'll notice when you read my opinions on people is that I'm a bit like Donald Trump, I want to be treated fairly and I get mad if I'm not). He's one of the guys who has been echoing my sentiment that I shouldn't be shot, but rather lynched. I guess I'm getting what I wished for. My time is better spent elsewhere though, I'm not going to make a judgement on his alignment unless I find time to read through his filter, it's going to be for other people to figure it out if I get lynched today. | ||
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If there is a dark horse mafia from my earlier list post int he townie section, it's probably damdred. There's plenty of reasons to believe damdred is town. He's taking a leadership role in town now, he has actually got a fairly long filter by his standards (I want to point out that I have a long one for my standards too...), and I can easily see why he'd make the counterclaim to tt's gunsmith claim as town. In fact it's more likely that he does it as town because if he is mafia he would know that onegu and tt are both town (remember, I don't think there's a chance onegu/damdred are both mafia) and thus he shouldn't care too much if town turns on onegu and lynches tt. Actually as I write that it's probably the best towncase I've made on damdred for a while. The biggest problem I have with damdred is this one: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KGcD6uk.png) This image shows damdred's mentions of me. This is what I noticed last night which prompted me to ask him. Notice that literally none of those talk about any kind of read on my alignment. It's just going along with thread sentiment to call palmar mafia like all the good townies. He did try to explain his read on me yesterday when I asked him but still. To summarize: Damdred is probably town, I just wrote a pretty strong case for him being town based on the claim mechanics, and he is actively trying to do things today. There do exist some concerns though so he's not a terrible cop check if the cop survives for a while longer (it's probably better to check scummy people tonight etc). Just make sure he stays with the game and keeps saying the right things. | ||
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I literally just opened his filter for the first time in the game. Every single game I play, the people I ignore end up being mafia and I never read their filters because they're so boring, this guy has quite a few things mafia do in his filter: His read on damdred flip flopped relatively conveniently on day 2, yet after "poking through damdred's filter" he somehow missed the very important point that damdred claimed a role that wasn't cc'd (except by ticktock, who at the time was consensus mafia). On December 30 2015 13:24 ObviousOne wrote: does anyone know/remember if palmar has a history of bussing? cause from his filter after reading kush i'm getting the feeling it could be a double-bus where they scum read eachother but neither really does anything about it. palmar vs artanis thing had no reason to be so drawn out, if palmar had the power to kill artanis why wouldn't he just ignore artanis all night if he was going to shoot artanis anyway? this one actually made me laugh though: after which rayn dies tinfoil hat me says the night actions are a way to assist in getting palmar lynched historically i have a bad time trying to decide whether or not palmar is scum, right now i can see reasons to think he's at worst null unless he's mafia together with kush specifically so association case someday maybe so yeah an entirely noncommittal town or scum-with-kush read but really i have no fucking clue honestly This post is sort of really bad. First off he makes a weird associative read about kush and I being double busing, and then proceeds to write an entire post essentially defending me, and somehow tries to associate kush flipping mafia with me certainly having to be one. It's really bad, and what if kush does indeed flip mafia? Is he going to go "well I guess palmar must be mafia too then?". It feels like a setup while trying not to antagonize me. Also, he changed his mind about it later! On January 02 2016 23:58 ObviousOne wrote: sleep deprived mafia team based on not very much effort but it's up to date, i'll try to do better when i come back ows vivax one of sl or slam one of noon or palmar maybe gb could prob eliminate one more name if i was caffeinated enough but i doubt it. thought about comparing this list to the dead guys filters from n1 maybe when i wake up tonight. from memory palmar was suspect but the rest i dont remember off the top of my empty skull Apparently now only one of me and Kush can be mafia, because reasons. OO is very, very likely to be mafia. I sort of expected ending up staying on GB after doing this, but pending poking around his filter I might just want to lynch OO. | ||
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You are of course essentially correct that there can be at most one mafia between me and kush, but why the change in heart when you previously basically said you felt it was a double bus scenario (indicating that there's not one mafia between us, but two). | ||
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On January 04 2016 19:46 ObviousOne wrote: Those early posts about damdred were made while catching up with the game, posting while behind, iirc The longer a double bus goes on the less likely it is to be one especially in this game where it's potentially a near-perfect game. Ofc I would call it a double bus when I felt you were both scummy in my mind This one is specifically not true, in fact your entire post was DEFENDING me instead of showing how I was scummy. The only caveat you left is that somehow it could be a double bus, without specifically talking about how or why I could be mafia. | ||
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you said "I felt you were both scummy" and now you said "I didn't talk about how or why you could be mafia because at this point the only real evidence I really have that you could be mafia is how poorly the night kills reflect on you" Those statements cannot exist together. | ||
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It's literally the easiest job in the world to be likable in tl mafia you have to do two things a) don't be a complete dick b) at least try to do something both of which you do fine enough. Let's assume for a second you're not mafia, who do you think we should lynch today and why. Also, what do you think of the people I've written about so far? | ||
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On January 04 2016 21:48 Trfel wrote: Nooniansoong's post about solving the game through townreads and process-of-elimination kind of made sense when looking through his filter. I think I mostly trust Damdred, but I'm not really sure I trust ritoky; it's a random tinfoil hat theory that I haven't had time to check yet. It's way too darn early Do you have no opinion on my contributions? | ||
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Exo is aggressive and impatient, which are generally townie traits. Back when interacting with him on day 1 he seemed genuinely annoyed because he didn't believe me. For the most part, traits like these are townie traits. Also, while I have sort of stopped reading Exo's posts since day 1 (I simply assumed my initial read was correct and ignored him for the most part after that). But the point stands, he is mad at people who are not trying to win the game: On December 28 2015 02:23 ExO_ wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Coagulation If you can't be arsed to read the thread, answer any questions, or add to the game at all why the fuck are you here. Please go fuck off Note that this is AFTER coag/rsoultin are unccd masons. Add in what I wrote here: On December 28 2015 18:50 Palmar wrote: Exo is probably town. Also, I've read about 10 posts in the thread now and checked a few filter lengths. I'm glad rayn is playing and HF has a shorter than expected filter. But I haven't really read anything from either of them yet. The reason I'm giving exo a maybe townread is his tinfoil hat theory regarding the mason claims. Most players who construct convoluted conspiracy theories, end up being townies. (If Exo is mafia, he would already know whether or not one or more of the mason claimers are mafia, so creating a theory becomes both more difficult, and it would make him worry about appearing to have extra information). Which is also about his reaction to the mason claim, and I think it's relatively safe bet that exo is town. Notice how in the vote on coag above, think about if exo is mafia: If exo is mafia, he knows coag/rsoultin are at least two townies, and probably the masons, is he smart enough as mafia to get angry at someone telling the truth and then vote against what would be the reasonable approach? I don't remember playing with Exo as mafia, but it's a relatively complicated mafia play. I am pretty much ok with taking Exo off the table completely. | ||
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On January 04 2016 22:26 sicklucker wrote: palmar dont be a tard vote slam now the tiebreaker can matter... sure, but like. we should lynch GB. Possibly OO, but definitely GB. I do not know why people are just flat out ignoring me on that. I'm going to write his part soon enough, but notice that he has literally done nothing today. | ||
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Ritoky is probably town. Strong enough not to be on the table for today. He has, throughout the game, given plenty of opinions and usually backed them up with some sort of reasoning. Even when I (I think it was me) pressured him into giving reasons for calling me mafia, he sort of did (they weren't good reasons, but they existed). He also made, what is in hindsight, a good point about artanis here: On December 27 2015 09:47 ritoky wrote: artanis is freely posting thoughts instead of releasing them in blocks of text. artans waits, sounds calculated, and posts in paragraphs/walls when he is scum. slam and rsoul are doing things that aren't alignment indicative but make me like them; plus slam is just hot irl. you're mafia because town GB calls that guy an idiot or worthless, town GB doesn't call him mafia. trfel is mafia cuz he sounded whimpy. having played with trfel as mafia recently, i think his biggest tell is that he sounds meek and whimpy as mafia. we done with your shitter read? ![[image loading]](http://25.media.tumblr.com/c5d1933f5de28e7d39fe5405c65188fb/tumblr_mzb0vb9qKx1t7d0aqo1_250.gif) And in response to everyone's favorite GB! He made case on tictock too, and while it turned out to be wrong, it was a reasonable case. I don't really mind people who actually are at the forefront of discovering things The shot on moosy was good, although I'm sort of surprised that he a) shot and that b) mafia didn't roleblock him. But since we have like 10 townies left and no one has claimed cop yet, it's entirely possible we have some kind of a situation where scum has figured out the cop (through rolecop) and they're keeping that guy roleblocked. In fact, when I think about it, that is a very likely scenario. So yeah, ritoky has been an asshole to me too, but I sort of think it's been in a way that doesn't make him mafia. He also got mad on day 1 when rayn was getting all the hype for what he believed to be just as much his work. Being mad about something like that is relatively townie. Just as with damdred, he needs to stay involved. If he drops off the face of the planet, lynch him. | ||
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On January 04 2016 22:39 sicklucker wrote: Ah man palmar is so town it hurts I know, I'm literally in physical pain | ||
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I've had an issue with glowingbear since day 1. Remember I talked about my townread on Exo which then blew up into an argument between us two (this particular part of the game is also involved in my feelings about kush). During this argument, Exo made precisely the point that GB makes in his question and I responded to it. There is no way GB was attentively reading that conversation to come up with that question, he just threw it out there. On December 29 2015 02:37 GlowingBear wrote: Also, Palmar, if you hadn't read anything and you didn't catch up, how do you know coag and rsoultin are masons? In fact, go to glowingbear's filter, like half of it, especially on day 1 is just him asking random questions without really following them up or giving any explanations to his thoughts while asking. I can quote quite a few: On December 27 2015 09:41 GlowingBear wrote: Why is Artanis town? Why is slam buddying you (where did you get that idea?)? Do you think the guys that are buddying you are Mafia? Why am I Mafia? Why truffle is Mafia? On December 27 2015 11:19 GlowingBear wrote: Much more important than who is town Who is Mafia? On December 27 2015 12:34 GlowingBear wrote: Rayn what do you think of Ritoky and Ness? Like I get trying to get people to explain things, but at some point you're just inflating your post count. Which brings me neatly to my next point: Glowingbear has a 10 page filter, 7 of which are from day 1. He has basically dropped off the face of the earth (which sort of fits him being mafia, because with tictock fumbling his claim the game is actually going splendidly for mafia. He's not doing anything, he's been combative but isn't actually trying to get people to do his bidding. Even today he seems to barely care who gets lynched. GB is perfectly capable of pushing things in later days, I've seen him do it. When he has conviction to do something he usually just does it, yet he is barely even trying this game. If you guys don't believe me go read christmas carol and compare his push on holyflare in that game to his push on holyflare or me this game. | ||
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On January 02 2016 01:57 GlowingBear wrote: Palmar also came to the thread out of nowhere and had this unreasoned scum read on me reinforcing bad suspicions on me. It made no sense at all. His play has been extremely lackluster also, with apparently 0 interest in solving the game. Like he's out of touch with reality. I did not come to the thread out of nowhere, it was HIM that randomly asked about my argument that he couldn't be bothered reading, to which I responded with a scumread. lackluster is a nice word to throw around when you want to accuse someone of being mafia. I'll respond with "GB has been lackluster!". Hah, got'em. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dMDdQOI.gif) | ||
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On January 04 2016 22:58 sicklucker wrote: ah man. I woke up last night puking. And today I gotta play in the finals of the american dota 2 major qualifiers against the favorites to win. If we even playing having it at 2pm when people work without using subs is so bullshit. No wonder amateur teams never winXD What I generally do is pick skeleton king and get refresher. I'm 3k | ||
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On January 04 2016 23:25 nooniansoong wrote: The way I feel about it is alakaslam is kind of a coinflip but a better lynch than GB. Why not gb? | ||
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On January 04 2016 23:25 nooniansoong wrote: The way I feel about it is alakaslam is kind of a coinflip but a better lynch than GB. In fact your entire filter seems very, very flip floppy on GB. (yes, I'm super fast at going through filters) You first ask him about some broken logic that you didn't really explain later (that I could see) When Koshi said GB would never be scum you asked him "why not". Which usually indicates you think he could be Quite a bit later you said he was probably not mafia and talked about some "good townie interactions" And finally you thought my point on GB is clever and original. Like you have no firm stance on GB, which I don't really mind, but clearly you seem to have a strong enough stance to make the call that it is worse than a coinflip lynch (in your own words, slam). | ||
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On January 04 2016 23:42 NocturneMage wrote: I'm on a real time crunch and I realise end of cycle is today, so I'm going to focus on the Palmar/Slam wagons with the little time I have. If there's any reason I should be focusing elsewhere, let me know. Glowingbear, you can drop me as a candidate too. | ||
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First off, the game started on a weekend, literally everyone on TL mafia knows I don't play on weekends except the bare minimum. What happened is this: 1) I have little time to play and no really good case, so I sheep rayn onto tictock 2) Vivax is unccd JK (he wasn't, but he claimed that and no one counterclaimed him) 3) When I come back to the thread rayn has moved to Vivax 4) I assume 2 things: a) rayn moved off tictock because he had a reason to think he wasn't mafia b) rayn went to vivax out of spite (vivax was being a real dumbass on day 1) 5) so I announced I'm willing to switch to another last minute vote, and mention kush and gb (if I recall correctly) 6) koshi starts a wagon on rels 7) I open rels' filter, see that it is less than a page, and decide it's worth the shot 8) rels dies 9) rayn goes nuts because he can be a real dumbass at times It's very simple and very true. Also note how kush and gb are both alive  | ||
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On January 04 2016 23:45 nooniansoong wrote: by clever I mean showing intelligence. Not that it's correct. I don't even remember the point though lol. my point is the one I've been harping on about, the "hey he asked a question that he should know the answer to if he was reading" ie: he posted just to post. | ||
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On January 04 2016 23:52 NocturneMage wrote: This is why I'm trying to get to Holyflare's filter if I can, I know he was scumreading GB and Slam and I have heard from others Holyflare is one of the best town players on TL even though I've never played with him. yeah hf is at least an average player, he may even be a good town player if we exclude some of the people who are actually good. | ||
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To all the other dead people who might be reading along. Fuck you. | ||
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On January 04 2016 23:55 NocturneMage wrote: Another callout of meta misrepresentation by Palmar. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me... are you mafia? Because that's how mafia talk. If you just read like 4 posts on from this exact post, you'll see my reply: On December 30 2015 00:54 Palmar wrote: Why would I do that when I don't believe that myself? If I believed that was your mafia meta I'd be calling you mafia wouldn't I? You literally make no sense. | ||
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It'll become scummy and shitty to call me mafia. That point is not here yet, but it will come. | ||
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Vivax was more of a "you're a moron so you should be shot". Remember also that town has no KP on n1 so it's irrelevant if I want him shot or not. At that point in the game I didn't assume we'd mislynch 2 days in a row and mafia would get all their kills through AND the town gun would shoot town. At that time I thought maybe we'd have time to clear out some trash (ie players who are probably not mafia but have done something ridiculously anti-town which would make it really tough to have them around in lylo. Like vivax). Like I want you to understand that vivax claimed JK. We apparently have an inattentive or stoic JK, but there's a bunch of people who as JK would have impulsively counterclaimed vivax, and therefore given mafia the jk on day 1. There's no way for me or vivax to know the JK is going to be someone who thinks things through/takes things slowly. They made the same point because they're parroting each other. Hell on day 2 half of town tried to call me mafia for switching off of confirmed mafia tictock, then he flipped town. The point is that everyone just uses whatever reasons they hear from somewhere in the thread. It's the reason this phenomenon I call "lynch inertia" exists. In fact, the lynch inertia is often so strong that I actually think I myself am probably a liability in lylo, simply because it's so easy for mafia to paint me as "someone who everyone has called mafia throughout the game". Like they can shed all responsibility and just lynch me, because it's much easier to say. "Well I'm uncertain so I'll just sheep artanis/rayn/koshi" than it is to build an actual case. The point is people will sheep reasons, and there's nothing wrong with that. But treating an individual reason as stronger because multiple individuals make them is bullshit. | ||
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On January 05 2016 00:24 sicklucker wrote: what? I missed that and I already called out 3 townroles this game that are probably all true. Did you not see my wht the fuck was vivax killed posts? can you explain I was super curious about mafias nk. This kind of feels like tmi here palmar... which part was tmi? Vivax literally claimed JK, how did you not know that? That turned out to be the reason (he retracted) rayn voted him. | ||
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here is the post, read the discussion afterwards. He got mad, claimed jk. | ||
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Mostly because it came about completely organically, ie: he wasn't JUST dumbtelling, he was actually calling me out on knowing something he thougth I shouldn't have known. Also, GB didn't like it, so that's a good reason for me to like it. | ||
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who is a better lynch, me or gb? because those just became your options. | ||
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On January 05 2016 03:25 Damdred wrote: Hrm palmar if we don't lynch GB you just hammered yourself XD No, or well, there's quite a few people that would be claiming mafia by letting that happen (kush, for one). | ||
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I am in favour of apartheid. I want to separate the town from the mafia. | ||
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Also I agreed with HF because he was right, although I didn't know I was agreeing with him until somene told me. | ||
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On January 05 2016 07:22 Trfel wrote: Meh, I guess it'll have to do. Do I need to stick around or can I worry about this game later? Do you honestly not care what he's going to flip? | ||
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On January 05 2016 07:26 ExO_ wrote: I'm really having second thoughts. The only thing that really makes me think GB is scum would be HF really thinking he's scum. And Palmar/Onegu being on GB doesn't help encourage me either. I really believe Ritoky and Damdred are town but I'm not sure if this is the right course of action. I still think palmar is scum and he managed to talk himself out of being scum read. How do you still think I'm mafia after today? Jesus What specifically today was just me talking to talk? | ||
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On January 05 2016 07:35 sicklucker wrote: if palmars mafia he would probably bus anyway because he knows a mislynch would be his death. Thats a bad reason exo/nm This is true, you guys should totally sheep me because I'm busing. It's free mafia lynch | ||
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On January 05 2016 07:37 ExO_ wrote: And if Palmar is scum he'll claim a power role regardless. If we screw this lynch up we don't have any more mistakes we can make. And I truly believe Palmar is scum. Why? | ||
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On January 05 2016 07:39 ExO_ wrote: Because of the way you've played so far. You didn't care at all about the early game lynches, only showed up at the end of day 1. And you've been very okay with however anything goes. Until you got some pressure on you today you weren't caring at all who was lynched. Artanis and Rayn both thought you were scum I cared I just didn't have time to play jesus Like this is literally every fucking game I ever play, I never play on weekends. day 2 was autopilot. and this day started... YOU GUESSED IT ON A WEEKEND | ||
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On December 05 2015 22:11 Palmar wrote: I don't know if I'm going to do much more today, it's weekend. Based on reading HtS and NM yesterday, I'm going to leave my vote on her. I think it's the right call. I won't be here at the deadline (or well... I won't be here from many hours before the deadline until tomorrow), so meh. I'll check my phone and such. If anyone wants my attention for something special just shout, I'll hopefully notice. I still think this is a reasonably good lynch. NM seems kinda towny and he's very sure about HtS, and her entire tone is very very bland as I talked about. I am again more suspicious of fidei and trfel than I was previously, with NM moving into the probably town column. I actually read something FF wrote that made me think he's town too, but since I can't even remember what it was, it can't have been super significant. Still for now this is good enough. I have yet to read FF, DYH and I think some other people, but I'll have to do that during the night or tomorrow. Good luck guys. On August 29 2015 19:31 Palmar wrote: Do we do the AFK vote today? it's weekend so don't expect much from me. On May 11 2015 18:56 Palmar wrote: It was weekend and I was hungover. This year is the worst. Everyone is turning 30 so always party and I'm old. On April 11 2015 01:48 Palmar wrote: you know what. It's almost weekend so I'm just gonna fuck off. I'm going to pretend no one is voting me or scumreading me and ignore you all because you've all proven you're bad. So what I'll do instead is at my own leisure, if I feel like it, drop some reads and hard hitting analysis in the thread that will probably go over your tiny heads anyway. No more rage. I'm playing single player mafia now. On January 31 2015 20:35 Palmar wrote: No pls civ and weekend and Super Bowl tomo and various other excuses. On January 31 2015 01:29 Palmar wrote: btw it's weekend (yes I stayed home because of a kid with chickenpox today, so weekend one day early) so don't expect any magic from me today. I still trust _most_ of my reads. On December 01 2014 01:09 Palmar wrote: I don't know. maybe you should wagon me just in case. It's still weekend and I'm not really finding the time to filterdive. I'm always shit on weekends. On August 02 2014 07:15 Palmar wrote: it's weekend btw, so I'm going to be away and stuff. I'm in the middle of nowhere. On July 12 2014 20:59 Palmar wrote: we did it again! started on a weekend! Disclaimer: I'm hungover and will get mad. On September 29 2013 08:04 Palmar wrote: Not now, I seriously thought we were beyond starting games on weekends, it's dumb. But later. On March 23 2014 08:23 Palmar wrote: I don't know if I like it, he was on the correct wagons if I recall correctly, and I vaguely remember him saying something that made me think he's town. I haven't re-checked his filter to confirm that I was basing my townread on him on something good or just a thing. I did point out to him that he was being like far less supertown than in the last game, but I'm not entirely sure that makes him scum because his history suggests that being useful is the anomaly rather than the rule with him. It's weekend, reading filters is hard work. | ||
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On January 05 2016 07:46 ExO_ wrote: we dont have time/people to switch to slam. either switch to Palmar or we're gonna be stuck with GB We're not fucking switching to me. We're switching to slam if anything. Maybe NM or OO What the hell is your problem man. | ||
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On January 05 2016 07:49 ExO_ wrote: I think you're scum. Do you think this is personal or something? Unlike HF I haven't tried to insult you or anything. But based on your play, and all of the talkative townies this far thinking your scum I think you are indeed scum. I thought if you got a lot of pressure on you, you'd come out talk a lot and convince people not to lynch you. Which is what it seems like to me has happened. Well what the hell could I have done to convince you I'm not mafia? People pressure me, I start doing useful shit to prove I'm not mafia, but because I'm proving I'm not mafia I must be mafia? You've long since reached a conclusion, and it's starting to look like you don't even have any interest in changing it. If I somehow get shenanigan'd on here, Exo actually might be mafia guys. | ||
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On January 05 2016 07:50 Alakaslam wrote: Because Palmar is epic and was a crouching fool hidden badass I humbly think this is a good description of me. | ||
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On January 05 2016 07:51 NocturneMage wrote: I can lynch Palmar or Alakaslam here. No you can't. | ||
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On January 05 2016 07:52 NocturneMage wrote: THERE IS RESISTANCE TO THE SLAM/PALMAR LYNCHES. GEE I WONDER WHY...... It took a massive effort on my part to get the GB lynch. Good narrative bro | ||
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Soooo...... | ||
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On January 05 2016 07:55 ObiWanShinobi wrote: You know what's funny? The last time you tried some last minute shenannies on me, you were mafia. I'm feeling pretty good right about now. literally worst meta, but I'll take it. | ||
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On January 05 2016 07:55 Damdred wrote: GB is going to flip town I think 9/10 times here idk about slam id vote slam over GB now probably based on what? | ||
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On January 05 2016 07:56 ExO_ wrote: Why would you lynch me? I'm somehow scum now? Either way I'll argue with you in a sec. Right now we need to focus on this vote you're not trying to re-evaluate your reads, you're just happy with a massive status quo of a lynch list that you want to go down. You could very well be scum, especially based on your complete reluctance to admit any of my effort today. I bet you barely even read it. | ||
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On January 05 2016 07:57 Damdred wrote: If GB is scum hr would do what he's doing to an extent and vote slam bow he's going way off target onto obi. Either he's distancing for obi ir he's town not caring if he lives. jesus this is actually a good point hnnngggggg I don't want to do it | ||
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On January 05 2016 08:03 Damdred wrote: Well I'm glad it was the case hrm I look sorta bad but it made sense to me at the time technically it could've been a scum vs scum wagon (see gb didn't vote slam). But he also may just have given up. either way, checking slam: fantastic idea. | ||
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literally flawless | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24070443 | ||
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A red check, on the other hand is 75% (2/3 millers are dead) chance of hitting mafia. I don't think I want slam lynched tomorrow, although there are some arguments to be made for it. The most important one is that GB didn't vote on his counterwagon. | ||
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Exo and Trfel both look significantly worse given yesterday, especially exo. | ||
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Sure, I lynched mafia, but all the concerns people had about me should have remained true in their mind even after the flip. If someone does mafia things he is mafia, even if he randomly votes for scum. | ||
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On January 06 2016 00:10 ExO_ wrote: GB twice called SL and myself town. He also called rayn town (who was town). Scum love to call town as town. I think you want to lynch me because I thought you were scum who talked his was out a lynch. I'm still not 100% sure that isn't the case here. But if you want to omgus lynch me you'll only have 1 more mislynch in the entire game you can make. Unless of course you're scum then killing me is obviously in your favor. I don't read dead mafia filters. That's how you lose games. (example: guardians of the galaxy) | ||
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On January 06 2016 00:11 ExO_ wrote: woah woah woah back up. I said I had to reevaluate you, not that I changed my mind on you. Don't try to misrepresent what I said. well how has the reevaluation gone so far? | ||
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On January 06 2016 00:21 ExO_ wrote: However Rayn/Artanis/Vivax/Koshi all thought you were scum Palmar, and all are dead townies. And at the start of day 2, I said scum Palmar would come and talk his way out of a lynch. And I think that is certainly a possibility. No, this is why you're mafia. You give no opportunity and use predetermined conclusions. You have decided I am mafia and thus if I talk myself out of a lynch I am mafia talking myself out of lynch. You don't even stop to think "what would town Palmar do". Because if you're just looking at the action (ie: talking myself out of a lynch), and doing it makes me mafia, then I suppose you'd have expected me as town to just get lynched because why? There is literally no course of action that would make you stop thinking I'm mafia, which means you've decided what I am a long time ago and will just say whatever you think supports that conclusion. On January 06 2016 00:21 ExO_ wrote: The fact that GB was scum is points in your favor, but if Slam flips scum too then It stops even being a question in my mind that you're scum. I was wrong about GB so I at least owe you a relook. I have literally no control over slam's alignment. Hell, if he flips mafia I'm more likely to be town because I fucking brought up the point gb didn't vote on his counterwagon despite being in the thread at least close to the deadline. You don't get to call me scum by association. You're mafia. Now die. | ||
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On January 06 2016 00:28 NocturneMage wrote: No. I will repeat what I said to Damdred yesterday. GB swapped votes to OWS right at same time (check voting thread) as shennanies to Alakaslam was occurring. GB's vote was effectively WIFOM. It should not be used as an argument against OWS, nor should it be used to vindicate anyone else. No but GB as mafia had at least a chance to save himself by just voting slam. Sure it might be wifom, but there might be a reason he didn't vote slam. | ||
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On January 06 2016 00:34 Damdred wrote: Good morning guys just a few things. 1) Lets be honest here and Palmar should agree with me. The flip doesn't make him town or scum, I have tinfoil going around in my mind. What you should do is look at the lynch and what happened before hand and see if what palmar did was town motivated. Was he coming from a town mindset. Overall id say yes, but I won't lie that palm would lynch GB as scum anyway. 2) NM last few postings have looked increasingly towny. 3) I'm a cool sexy dude. 1) is my point exactly, I'm not really any more town just because of the flip. I am more town because I provided thorough analysis on a lot of players yesterday which resulted in a good case on someone who turned out to be mafia. People keep thinking about WHAT happened when they should be thinking about HOW it happened. | ||
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On January 05 2016 07:51 Palmar wrote: Well what the hell could I have done to convince you I'm not mafia? People pressure me, I start doing useful shit to prove I'm not mafia, but because I'm proving I'm not mafia I must be mafia? You've long since reached a conclusion, and it's starting to look like you don't even have any interest in changing it. If I somehow get shenanigan'd on here, Exo actually might be mafia guys. Here Exo again with the "I expect mafia palmar to do townie things, so if palmar does townie things he is mafia" which is of course completely insane. | ||
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On January 06 2016 00:38 ExO_ wrote: What was it, 1 page ago I was scum for thinking you're townie after the flip, a few posts later I'm scum because I won't change my mind on you. The fuck is the irrational pushing of me. I'm in the middle of reading your filter. As I said I owe you a relook. But are you kidding me with this? No matter what I say you're trying to skew it in some way. God I really hope you are scum. Aren't you supposed to be a vet of TL mafia? Being this stubborn and quite frankly stupid is going to lose town the game. I am not being stubborn. And it's not me who is skewing your words as much as the opposite. "What was it, 1 page ago I was scum for thinking you're townie after the flip, a few posts later I'm scum because I won't change my mind on you." I am talking about how and why, not what. I didn't call you scum for thinking I'm townie. I called you scum for thinking I'm townie while not in any way removing previous suspicion. IE you took WHAT happened without even thinking about HOW it happened. On January 05 2016 07:58 ExO_ wrote: I'll freely admit I didn't read the walls of text you posted. I skimmed them but I definitely didn't read them super closely. And I don't think anything you say is going to cause me to reevaluate you. Unless somebody like Damdred or Ritoky can explain to me why you are super townie I'm going to continue thinking you are scum. You even admit that you have no idea how it happened. You literally don't care about the process of things that ended up with me getting GB lynched. You don't care if my logic was sound you don't care if it was just a shitty bus or an actual analysis. And now I'm calling you mafia not for being stubborn, but because you're being stubborn in a way that doesn't make any logical sense for a townie. The only trigger to re-evaluating my alignment is that some random dude I happened to want to kill turned out to be mafia. Even then you have no idea if I just bussed him as scum or if I actually got him lynched legit. | ||
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On January 06 2016 00:42 NocturneMage wrote: That is horrible scumtastic reasoning to suggest that Slam should not be voted. If Slam was town, mafia GB would have voted him 100%. (Mind you that is NAI, but saying.) Mafia play to survive or in this case, preserve their team. The mafia motivation for GB to save Slam is that Slam serves a more important role on the scumteam, end of. (Obviously as he's flipped we know there is no town motivation, but even if GB was town, he would have still saved himself because he's most sure of his own alignment.) If anything, what you say, is actually further of an argument that Alakaslam should be lynched, and not the other way around. That is precisely what I was saying? GB not voting on the counterwagon is a bit wifom-y, but also a pretty good argument that Alakaslam should be lynched. | ||
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On January 06 2016 00:43 ExO_ wrote: Yesterday? Nothing at all. I was convinced 100% you were scum and it wasn't worth my time. Again, 4 dead townies thought you were scum, and I trust their ability to read you more than my own. This makes you a complete dumbass and a terrible player, but I suppose the brutal honesty makes you less likely to be mafia (this is a pretty confrontational stance for mafia to take). | ||
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I am really running out of fucking steam dealing with people wanting to lynch me this game. I'm mad so I'm going away from the thread for a while before I start calling people names | ||
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On January 06 2016 00:48 ExO_ wrote: Again that isn't the case though. Somehow saying I need to reevaluate you = I think you're townie without suspicion in your mind. It's completely misrepresenting what I said. Well not townie, but the point stands. You took an action and decided an outcome based on it. How about you lynch Onegu because he claimed cop at random? Ritoky shot a townie. Damdred claimed a role that has since flipped? You can't just look at what happened (random dude flipped mafia) you need to look at how and why. | ||
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go reread, try to be less bad. Also, hint: I didn't start posting because I was being pressured or because I found a lead or because jesus told me. I started posting because it was roughly 9am on a monday at work and I had checked my monitoring systems and email, and decided to mafia a bit because there wasn't much to do. It was also the first day since day 1 where the lynch wasn't sort of automatic. | ||
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On January 06 2016 00:51 ExO_ wrote: *ebwop hard to keep an objective mind Why would you strive to do that when your perspective up until now has been "fuck objectiveness, I religiously think palmar is mafia" | ||
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see you tonight maybe. If I don't come back, don't lynch sl, damdred, onegu and ritoky. Probably don't lynch NM and maybe don't lynch exo. lynch into slam, shining, oo maybe ows It's super important to remember the people who are not doing jack shit or just show up to randomly say things when it's convenient. It's almost a good idea to just lynch shortest filter first tbh. | ||
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On January 06 2016 00:56 ExO_ wrote: Again, I thought I was right. Until something upsets the status quo (me being wrong on GB) I'm going to continue thinking I'm right. No reason to be objective on you if you're scum. Again 4 dead townies (townies btw that you all called as town before they died, something I've come across reading right now) thought you were scum. It's because they're bad and I'm good. | ||
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He's actually a surprisingly good candidate for mafia. | ||
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I'm looking forward to hard hitting analysis. | ||
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n1 Holyflare n2 OWS n1 OWS n2 Palmar n1 Onegu/OWS n2 Onegu/OWS But there honestly are problems with just about all the scenarios. So maybe he checked someone who turned up dead or something. | ||
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the problem with scenario 2 is that while he flipped his read on me from scum to town on day 3, I don't think he really did it until after I started posting the problem with scenario 3 is that he was much stronger on OWS than onegu (and tbh that's also a problem with all the scenarios). sl was very, very strong on OWS, but I can't through quickly skimming his filter find anyone else he's strong on. So idk. I guess we just lynch slam today | ||
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On January 02 2016 22:13 sicklucker wrote: obi- your just gonna have to trust me on this one. I have played alot of games with him and for him his contributions are huge and knowledgeable | ||
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I'm stuck in a conference through today | ||
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Probably lynch kush, shining, oo ritoky, nm exo are the difficult to figure out people. | ||
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of that group I'd currently lynch NM. Mostly because half of his reasons aren't reasons at all. | ||
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OO tomorrow | ||
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But I think OO | ||
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idk there's probably 3 mafia in: nm, shining, oo, ritoky, kush, exo coag obi are mostly confirmed, onegu is not mafia and it's unlikely damdred is (although stepping away from the game seems to have caused all my reads to become weaker) | ||
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Everyone who wants to vote me needs to specifically explain in a few sentences why I must be mafia. | ||
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if we mislynch today we're in lylo. exo could be mafia, he literally flipped his read on me based on nothing I feel like (at least I can't find any explanation) | ||
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ritoky is very much on the table again | ||
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On January 09 2016 08:28 Damdred wrote: Shining answer me this, why as scum do I 1) Lead a shenanigans d1 on Rels when I had a town lynch in Tt sewed up. 2) Everyone basically who has died has town read me hard, why would I kill these people 3) led shenanigans or attempted shenanigans onto godfather slam when the cop was still alive. 4) as non godfather open myself up for a cop check by cc Tt knowing he would flip town. If you can answer the scum,motivation besides ducking tinfoil you :/ an suck read me until then do something useful 1 isn't really true I think. I think it was koshi followed by me who switched | ||
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On January 09 2016 08:29 ExO_ wrote: How are you guys just ignoring NM's large post? Kush? Palmar? Like you're acting like it didn't happen. The OO claim as well. The way you guys are talking now makes me think you are scum more than anything. Like Palmar you're not defending yourself, you're saying everyone needs to post a reason to lynch you. Really? A whole fuckton were just posted by a confirmed VT. What's your defense? To ignore it? NM's last post has very little to do with the game. I guess I should read what he posted on ritoky, but seeing as I am a pretty strong scumread of his, I'm also inclined to write him off as a baddie and trust myself over him. It's work pretty good so far (I've been wanting to lynch mafia since day 1). | ||
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Sunday I'll be mostly off I think, I'll try to poke my head in before the lynch. | ||
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On January 09 2016 08:29 ExO_ wrote: How are you guys just ignoring NM's large post? Kush? Palmar? Like you're acting like it didn't happen. The OO claim as well. The way you guys are talking now makes me think you are scum more than anything. Like Palmar you're not defending yourself, you're saying everyone needs to post a reason to lynch you. Really? A whole fuckton were just posted by a confirmed VT. What's your defense? To ignore it? This is so biased | ||
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On January 06 2016 04:40 sicklucker wrote: Palmar is town for sure On January 05 2016 08:23 sicklucker wrote: acualy the last time me and palmar were both town and crushed mafia he posted a similar gloat post I believe it was some chick flipping everyone off? Ya hes always gonna be town On January 05 2016 08:08 sicklucker wrote: sure it was a bus in a sense. But there were some people that expected palmar to be the second wagon over slam. I think it was a m/m wagon where mafia didnt really care rather then a bus. I think palmar is town and I think people who wanted him dead are mafia On January 05 2016 00:38 sicklucker wrote: wow im confirmed town. j/k needs to be on me or palmar tonight On January 04 2016 22:39 sicklucker wrote: Ah man palmar is so town it hurts Confirmed cop called me town Exo, ARE WE JUST GOING TO IGNORE THAT? | ||
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On January 09 2016 08:36 Damdred wrote: Position of vote doesn't mean who led a shenanigans at all and you know that palmar. Rels posted I started hammering away at him, Tt hit hi a vote there I continue hitting at him you put your vote lots of people move I hammer him at that point when I know it a secured. I at least moved because of koshi no idea if you triggered him | ||
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The point is, exo has been trying to get me lynched for no reason throughout the game. I can understand the early things, but since day 3 I should be town to most people, and I am, mostly with maybe the exception of NM and for some reason exo. difference is, exo has no idea why I'm mafia, while nm at least tried to build a case. | ||
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On January 09 2016 09:01 ExO_ wrote: So you are mafia then? When you flip scum will you be mad that I was the first one to vote you, since I have no idea why you are mafia? at this point you're just trolling ##vote exo Die scum | ||
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If you flip town, you can yell at me postgame AND I'll promise to vote myself tomorrow | ||
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On January 09 2016 09:08 ExO_ wrote: I stand by what I said earlier regarding the GB/Slam vote. None of the scum players were bussing the God Father, Slam, except for Kush. Palmar and Onegu were both on the GB wagon, not the slam. Palmar tried to act like he was going to switch, but didn't. Exo continues to refuse to understand the game because it's easier. I didn't switch because GB was my wagon, I was sure on him. Yes, I always hedge a bit and waffle, but that's pretty normal. Why would I then immediately go on to point out that GB didn't vote on his counterwagon, and proceed to instantly vote slam the next day? hurr durr save godfather. | ||
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On January 09 2016 09:15 ExO_ wrote: I mean you know the cop is dead and can't call slam green anymore at that point. Which is the entire point of saving the GF: get the cop to clear him as green. Since SL popped up as the dead cop that play is no longer going to work. Let's assume I AM INDEED MAFIA. Why would I ever shoot SL, he was my strongest supporter? answer: I might have known he was cop. But if that is the case, then I would have known that at the beginning of the night. soo.... | ||
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In fact, shining seems to look kind of maybe town every time he's in the thread, but it's so little that meeeh. | ||
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I somehow won dota even though I kept tabbing out. ez game. | ||
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On January 09 2016 09:27 nooniansoong wrote: WHy is shining for likely town than damdred? It's an arbitrary read to make his list better | ||
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On January 09 2016 15:54 ObviousOne wrote: It was less than 2 minutes before flip according to my clock People already rallying to vote me before night ended It's win win for me to claim then, if you decide to believe me and look at other people or if scum has great reflexes/cares enough to be stalking the thread for claims just before deadline Claiming now means you have better information and don't waste 36 hours either talking about me or more predictable having another auto lynch day. Not like my role was being utilized well in any case But if you're town and vote me today you're a fucking Mong technically it's the correct play for you to claim regardless of your alignment. I don't disagree, everyone wanted to kill you. But since no one is cc-ing I guess you're just confirmed. | ||
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Here's the short version of the reason: Almost everything he says is based on looking at facts, not why they happened. He thought I was mafia because reasons... other peopel said I was? I can't remember Then I lynched mafia, suddenly I am not mafia. NOT because he believed my case on Gb (he didn't read it), but simply because a guy I voted flipped red. Then I become mafia again because of I don't quite know why. I think it's because slam happened to be mafia too. The point is, he doesn't care WHY things happens. He seems to have this flowchart of when it's correct to do something according to his plan and he just executes it without looking into it. To point it out clearly, it's 100% irrelevant if GB flipped mafia or town. The result in my alignment based on that day should be considered in how genuine and solid my case was and if I pushed it in a townie or scummy way. I wouldn't have magically been mafia if I had been wrong on GB, I'd simply have been wrong. In addition, he has multiple times this game accused me of being mafia for doing townie things. An example is like this: "Palmar is mafia because he talked himself out of a lynch". The problem is that, he implies that the ONLY way I could possibly be town is if I let myself become lynched. IE: my alignment, is predetermined and not concluded based on evidence. | ||
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On January 11 2016 00:02 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I just don't understand why I'm still alive if I'm borderline confirmed town. It doesn't make any sense. meh I thought I'd get shot after killing GB I also thought maybe coag would be shot at some point. It's irrelevant and wifom. Maybe people can push a lynch off you, someone, I can't remember who, pointed out SL could be interpreted how have green checked me. Maybe people think they can lynch you or something. Maybe you're scum and SL is a moron? The point is, it's wifom. as a sidenote, if it turns out postgame that SL DID check me on n2 and he didn't leave a clear fucking cut trail of it, I'm going to fucking murder him postgame for making my life difficult. | ||
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ritoky, you talked about shining being mafia 100% but to you OO should be confirmed mafia, why not just immediately cc? | ||
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We have the following options: OO is mafia, rit is JK, exo is getting lynched. In that case ritoky has no idea if the exo lynch is correct, but he probably doesn't believe it (I don't have time to check what he actually thought), seeing as I remember him calling shining scum and to him OO must be mafia too. Unless he thinks exo is the third mafia. Also OO could be town, exo is getting lynched and ritoky as mafia ccs. this is potentially a play, but almost only if exo is mafia. It makes no sense to save a townie (exo) which rit would know if he's mafia to create a 1v1 with an already claimed jailer. But the thing is Exo is actually super likely to be mafia, still if exo is mafia (ie: I'm right on exo) why would ritoky who I've been sort of suspicious of but not been outright calling mafia, attempt to save him with a pretty hail mary play. Like if we turn around and lynch ritoky here and he flips mafia, wouldn't we simply immediately lynch Exo tomorrow? I guess based on that it's more likely OO is mafia | ||
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On January 11 2016 07:52 The Shining wrote: If you didn't read anything, how'd you put all that together, though? QT sparknotes? :o anything being not a literal statement. (more like, I quickly went through the voting thread and skimmed the thread) | ||
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On January 11 2016 07:51 The Shining wrote: Damdred, right. Palmar, yes. Both claimed to jail Damdred n2 after his fake claim but ritoky said it was aggressive, whereas OO said he was just protecting a town read. And thanks for parroting my last post -.- right this I did not know. Do we have their full claim history somewhere? | ||
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Tbh it's better for me if OO is the JK because he jailed me at some point. clearly town | ||
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On January 11 2016 07:56 ExO_ wrote: "extremely likely I'm mafia" yeah why is that exactly? I'd like to know. I want to hear how you as a scum are going to call me mafia, or you as a VT are misreading me as mafia Do you just not pay attention? | ||
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On January 10 2016 21:11 Palmar wrote: I still think we need to lynch Exo. Here's the short version of the reason: Almost everything he says is based on looking at facts, not why they happened. He thought I was mafia because reasons... other peopel said I was? I can't remember Then I lynched mafia, suddenly I am not mafia. NOT because he believed my case on Gb (he didn't read it), but simply because a guy I voted flipped red. Then I become mafia again because of I don't quite know why. I think it's because slam happened to be mafia too. The point is, he doesn't care WHY things happens. He seems to have this flowchart of when it's correct to do something according to his plan and he just executes it without looking into it. To point it out clearly, it's 100% irrelevant if GB flipped mafia or town. The result in my alignment based on that day should be considered in how genuine and solid my case was and if I pushed it in a townie or scummy way. I wouldn't have magically been mafia if I had been wrong on GB, I'd simply have been wrong. In addition, he has multiple times this game accused me of being mafia for doing townie things. An example is like this: "Palmar is mafia because he talked himself out of a lynch". The problem is that, he implies that the ONLY way I could possibly be town is if I let myself become lynched. IE: my alignment, is predetermined and not concluded based on evidence. | ||
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On January 11 2016 08:05 The Shining wrote: Why the Fuck does he do that if exo is town? Holy fucking wifom. Like he either saves his scum buddy but outs them both. Or is wifoming the Fuck out of us into thinking it's exo so we can lynch exo after ritoky and lose. I think there's still a mislynch. ie: it's a dumb play unless exo is mafia. exo is mafia. | ||
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if this happens I promise to lynch coag because at that point i'm just spite lynching | ||
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On January 11 2016 08:10 The Shining wrote: No that was our last ml. Which is why ritoky would cc there to get the jk lynched and not risk any saves. After night we're in triple lylo. jesus then | ||
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I don't care. | ||
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On January 11 2016 08:26 ritoky wrote: it was almost as good as this one: ![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-B9r6R5zpI-I/UrJd84TM8MI/AAAAAAAABM0/sH2z9qsUVkE/s1600/CowboysFumble.gif) Now this one I'm very much okay with. | ||
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surface says exo must be scum. the simple solution is ritoky bought a mislynch by saccing himself. Exo is thus scum. simple solution (as I've already explained in detail a few days back) is that both damdred and onegu are town. simple solution is that obi must be town. so it's kush or shining. I'd lean towards kush, mostly because he's been too right on me this entire game. I like simple solutions. | ||
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On January 13 2016 01:12 nooniansoong wrote: can someone recap the case for onegu being town? or link to it or wahtever essentially it's not much in hindsight. The point is, if he is mafia he cannot have known TT was gunsmith (ie: if mafia knows he's gunsmith, they also know he can just claim "uh, no I'm not red, I'm gunsmith"). Thus, if onegu is mafia, he claimed a red check on a random player mafia had no idea what would flip, and a player who was already a very likely candidate to be lynched. Essentially, there is literally no value for mafia in sacrificing 1 scum for 1 town that half of town wanted to lynch anyway. | ||
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idk, it seems super unlikely, but who knows really | ||
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so technically, we could not lynch ritoky today unless we desperately want scum to take another shot | ||
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On January 13 2016 02:26 nooniansoong wrote: Palamar arwnt there 2 scum left after we kill ritoky that's what I said. today it's 5v3. If we lynch correctly (ritoky) we get to continue tomorrow it'll be 4v2. If we lynch correctly we get to continue 3rd day it'll be 3v1, if we lynch correctly we win The whole point is any mislynch is an instant loss. I'm just impatient so I don't care if I mislynch today or in 2 days, and I'd kinda rather be alive to actually got a non-retarded lynch in than watch lazy people lose in 3v1 lylo or something. | ||
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On January 13 2016 02:25 nooniansoong wrote: But it's not a 1 for 1 because onegu is still alive. Your argument hinges on onegu thinking it would be a 1v1, but he probably knew it wouldn't be. Add to that the fact that onegu has fake claimed as mafia before. I think koshi said that. Also ritoky townread onegu (this was before ritoky fake claimed) for not being joyful. This meta tone read is an easy way for ritoky to townread his scumbuddy. yes it hinges on that. the point is, it's hard to gamble (as mafia) that you can get away with flat out lying and getting a townie lynched AND in addition gambling the townie doesn't have a claimable role. and the benefit is so small | ||
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On January 14 2016 08:15 Onegu wrote: Kush I cant read ever. I actually need to go over him. But really some of the things he has done this game have been really townie. Like what? you don't think I'm mafia, right? Do you think that in a sea of shitty townies kush just happened to be the one who got my read right? It bothers me so much and I don't know | ||
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Problem is, I have only marginal faith in the simple solution being the correct one. idk | ||
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Everything says I should lynch Exo. He's repeatedly given me nothing to work with and tried to paint me mafia for doing towie things. He's not particularly excited about playing and deserves to be lynched. Frankly I hope he's scum because I don't want to think he acts like an uncompromising dick when he's town. The problem is, I townread him on day 1. I usually trust my early reads much more than I trust my later reads that are influenced by things like flips etc. It's tempting to simply try to ignore Exo, just in the off chance my day 1 read was right, and focus on trying to find the other mafia. But that's also a lot of effort. so meeehhhhh.... | ||
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Which means it's also the simple solutions and I like those. still, I don't know. I'll force myself to read shining's and damdred's filter tomorrow. I'm going to sort of ignore Onegu I think because it's so mechanically unlikely he is mafia. I am sort of fine to lose if that was some massive gambit to get a guy lynched that everyone wanted to lynch anyway. | ||
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On January 15 2016 03:23 nooniansoong wrote: palmar - 20 pages damdred - 18 pages me - 15 pages exo - 15 pages shining - 10 pages onegu - 6 pages This sort of points to damdred town. He's generally a low volume poster yet he is 2nd highest of remaining people. | ||
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On January 16 2016 07:47 Onegu wrote: Having trouble getting obs to transfer to youtube to post my case... you're making a video case | ||
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On January 16 2016 08:33 nooniansoong wrote: @Palmar, can you point to exactly what made you think Exo was town and we can look at it again and reconsider? it was something regarding the mason claims | ||
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On December 28 2015 18:50 Palmar wrote: Exo is probably town. Also, I've read about 10 posts in the thread now and checked a few filter lengths. I'm glad rayn is playing and HF has a shorter than expected filter. But I haven't really read anything from either of them yet. The reason I'm giving exo a maybe townread is his tinfoil hat theory regarding the mason claims. Most players who construct convoluted conspiracy theories, end up being townies. (If Exo is mafia, he would already know whether or not one or more of the mason claimers are mafia, so creating a theory becomes both more difficult, and it would make him worry about appearing to have extra information). | ||
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On December 28 2015 01:58 ExO_ wrote: I don't think rsoultin breadcrumbed coag. No mention of anything remotely related to him until after somebody else mentions it in the thread. then she hops right onto the idea that she breadcrumbed him. I don't believe rsoultin/coag are masons. I don't necessarily think they are scum buddies either. I think a huge variety of things could be happening here. but when rsoultin has been accused of being scum so far she kinda just goes "shrug nothing I can do to convince you guys". So I think rsoultin is scum, and coag is some non-scum role kinda just piggy bagging off rsoultin's "bread crumbing" to make up for his lack of posting. essentially the thing is, why come up with this theory if you already know that neither of the players claiming mason are mafia. Scum tend to not do strange things. | ||
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I don't think mafia would care if they win today, or win the next day, so there is no incentive not to bus. | ||
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#thescumslipsarereal (I have no idea if this means anything...) | ||
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This is so good god I hope he's actually mafia | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/onLHw1M.png?1) #neverforget #townbros | ||
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On January 17 2016 01:39 ExO_ wrote: What I'm struggling with is why do you make this video as scum onegu. Like I want to think onegu is scum. but this video just seems weird. And I'm really worried it might be Damdred. Nobody is scum reading him. If he's the scum they basically have it in the bag. idk. I have no idea who scum is. I want to say Onegu, but it feels to me like scum could very easily be watching the townies fight :/ And now this post makes me want to lynch Exo again. And the reason he suspects damdy is simply that no one else does. There's literally no reason behind it. | ||
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like maybe that's just the solution, exo and onegu. but that means kush actually did good and I don't want to live in that world. such hard game. I'll make a call once I'm drunk tonight, that sounds like a plan. | ||
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I'm also not yet that drunk | ||
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On January 17 2016 07:53 Onegu wrote: Palmar move your vote! Even if I do you still get lynched and if kush is town and one of the "afk" people are María they can last decade hammer | ||
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When Damdred is alive and Koshi isn't, I'll try to build my "towniness" in a way that I think will persuade damdred, and not give a fuck what might persuade koshi. I didn't just kill people who were right, I killed people who were right or I had little chance of convincing based on the state of the game. It's about systematically destroying leadership and initiative in town. I'm actually sort of more proud of this performance than when I just get everyone to townread me, because it's a more roundabout way of winning as mafia. My team played very well, thanks for a fun team guys. GG everyone | ||
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On January 17 2016 22:06 justanothertownie wrote: I don't think the rage in the obs qt was directed at you?! Of course you did the correct thing by shooting the people who were right and deceiving the gullible ones. That's how you win as mafia. The unjustified rage was directed at the townies for liking a meal specifically made for them. Yes, they could've played better, but people in the QT act as if they were being completely retarded. We've all lost games before... | ||
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Kush Thanks for trying, I was being genuine when I said I liked this version of kush a lot better. | ||
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On January 17 2016 14:25 Coagulation wrote: palmer you attack me personally with insults and shit when I read you as scum when you are scum and thats why I will never fucking like you. p.s. you are a bad person and should feel bad. I don't expect you to like me, we're very, very different people and the feeling of dislike is mutual. You are probably the only person on TL mafia that I actively dislike. It has nothing to do with the game at hand and whether or not I am mafia or not. I dislike you because you repeatedly sign up for games and do the absolute bare minimum to not get modkilled, you don't play to win. I dislike you because you are willing to ruin a game for a bunch of other people to keep your stupid townie seal going (you have been lynched in the past for refusing to post it as scum, effectively fucking over your team). I dislike you because you act like a total asshole to this community time and time again. It may not be perfect, but some of us are actually trying to make it work. On April 08 2014 12:09 Coagulation wrote: like I cant continue be a part of this community and still have respect for myself. you guys are by far the worst community i have ever been a part of on the net. On April 08 2014 10:25 Coagulation wrote: i just hope yall are not as big of pussys in rl as yall act here. "omg he said he swears on his life omg thats not fair" I genuinely think you make every game you sign up for worse by simply being a part of it. I wish you'd just stay on omgus and play there so I don't have to deal with you. It's entirely possible I'm the asshole, but it's probably fair that you know why I always act like a dick to you. | ||
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On January 18 2016 02:16 Holyflare wrote: Moral of this game just like every other. Stop fucking fake claiming. And no damdy yours wasn't bad tbh but if no one fake claimed in general shit like this game wouldn't happen. since when are you team no-fake-claims? | ||
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We need to get the 2016 awards thread up for TT's blooper on his claim and for clearly best scumteam. | ||
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![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/6e42219a5876ee6211266625f19c3353.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/4391fda423ccd187b9dc4c02582a3a3b.png)
