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On December 03 2015 05:22 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 05:15 disformation wrote:On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:On December 01 2015 08:37 Rels wrote:
Yo.
If you're boxer you fucking shut up. There is two possible mafia setups: one with two possible town setups with one boxer each so it doesn't matter. And one when we have either boxer + vet, or cop + vig. In that last case, mafia wants to roleblock their kill target in the vet setup, or roleblock someone else on the cop + vig setup.
Boxer claiming would make them know what is the thing to do.
Tldr if you're boxer you shut up unless you're getting lynched.
Tldr 2 the two people pushing for boxer to claim are suspicious. Damdred and doyouhas I'm going to bring this up again. Please, hear me out, but I DO NOT WANT TO START A MECHANICS DISCUSSION. First, I will assume that the argument that Rels presents about the BoxeR claiming is 100% correct. No matter what. No questions asked. Just for the purpose of this argument. With this assumption, and two people telling the BoxeR to claim, it's important for this argument to be made as quickly as possible so that the BoxeR can see it and not claim. The thing is, Rels presents a really well-explained argument for this. It kind of feels too good to be true. He's already stopped to analyze the setups from a mafia perspective, and see what they know, and see what town knows. He's 100% sure that mafia doesn't know which setup the game uses, despite the standard Blazinghand newbie game using a similar four-option setup where the mafia team IS told the setup. Like, I know that Rels is good. But is he really this good? His first post of the game, 37 minutes after the day began.... It doesn't feel quite right. Okay. Let me try. So you assume that the good play for town/boxeR is to not claim. Two people say the opposite. So Rels rushes to the help of town and presents a good argument why boxeR should not claim. So a) he is town or b) he wants the town cred. He analyzes the setup, which is possible as either alignment. hmmm... the op doesn't say whether mafia knows the setup or not... and you are right he seems pretty convinced that mafia does not know the setup. This part is kinda strange indeed... The parts about it feels too good and is he this good confuse me a bit though. Like what do they add to this argument, besides making it look like a fear read a lot? =p maybe I should go and read rels more in depth... Maybe this is just not a good argument at all. One more try. The key word is that Rels is rushing to the aid of town. Rushing, because speed is important. And his post is extremely knowledgeable, and is a really comprehensive explanation. I find it hard to believe that he got confirmation that scum didn't know the setup in time to make this post, for example. If Rels was around earlier, he should have been posting. Town wouldn't avoid posting like that. Basically, Rels took extra time to make sure his argument was completely explained and correct, when town wants to post as quickly as possible. This makes me wonder if the motivation behind the post is, instead of helping town, to make himself look better, which would mean that Rels is mafia. The argument falls apart if Rels is good enough to make this post as town without taking much extra time, which is what I was trying to get at. That seems really unlikely, but I can't completely rule it out.
Not sure I like or agree with this post. I might be biased here because I've cohosted two games now with Rels, both of which are themed and both of which require him to know his mechanics in depth. I concluded this post alone was NAI because anyone skilled enough or knowledgeable enough about setup spec can speak to their opinions about what certain roles should and should not do. My opinion based on what I read in the OP/day post was that scum can narrow down the setup as they know their own roles so Rels' post is reasonable based on the fact that if the boxer claims, they can further narrow down the setup.
The part about 100% sure on the setup is completely false, based on his saying "there are two possible setups....etc" no they don't know for sure but like I said before they can narrow it down based on how BH (and clearly you know from what you've posted?) assigns the roles in his games in the mafia QT, and that would appear to be Rels argument. I don't know where you are getting "took extra time" (I'm seeing a 10 minute gap between Damdred's and Rels response and from what I'm reading of the thread/their filters, for both players it is their first appearances in the thread, 23:27 and 23:37 respectively) or how you'd know he would have posted that otherwise unless I'm reading that sentence wrong.
What I'm trying to say is it appears to me that you are reaching here especially since as Rels hadn't posted yet in the thread so I don't know how you can even assume that. It seems like a few assumptions "if he was around" etc. but even if you are making the argument that 10 minutes is too long for him to construct his post, that's still a poor assumption because when you look at his filter that 23:37 post is the first post he makes in the game. You don't know if he arrives at 23:35, sees that and just churns it out which makes the "completely explained and correct" part a reach on your end as well.
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K let's do up moosey and get a claim from him.
vote mooesy
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On December 03 2015 06:11 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 06:09 The Shining wrote:
I'm here. Work is hectic and its rainy which makes it worse but I'll catch up as fast as I can. Just don't flame me for missing anything.
I do see a few votes on MD. Anyone defending him or pushing a diff lynch at all? nope. Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 06:09 Damdred wrote:
I'm not so sure moosey is mafia.
I've given other reads
however I think that LS is mafia and I should be sheeped on this. Your timing is great. Was just like... "wait, LS is in this game..." I also remember HtS case on him being decent... can you elaborate further?
So he's being bussed, is town or his team is one of the arms or non voters. Hm. Can't deny Moosy is prime d1 lynchbait tho, I just checked his filter. Looks like he did nothing after talkinng to me about my Fid read except ask who was pro/anti Rels and took a rest for what is now 21 hrs. Sigh.
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Yes I've read his filter and its totally NAI.
He only really shows his alignment N1 and beyond, its just how he plays. He isn't worth a d1 lynch when 3/4 of the time he will flip town doing this.
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On December 03 2015 06:18 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 06:11 disformation wrote:On December 03 2015 06:09 The Shining wrote:
I'm here. Work is hectic and its rainy which makes it worse but I'll catch up as fast as I can. Just don't flame me for missing anything.
I do see a few votes on MD. Anyone defending him or pushing a diff lynch at all? nope. On December 03 2015 06:09 Damdred wrote:
I'm not so sure moosey is mafia.
I've given other reads
however I think that LS is mafia and I should be sheeped on this. Your timing is great. Was just like... "wait, LS is in this game..." I also remember HtS case on him being decent... can you elaborate further? So he's being bussed, is town or his team is one of the arms or non voters. Hm. Can't deny Moosy is prime d1 lynchbait tho, I just checked his filter. Looks like he did nothing after talkinng to me about my Fid read except ask who was pro/anti Rels and took a rest for what is now 21 hrs. Sigh. MoosyDoosy is basically guaranteed mafia.
He said he'd play Day 1. He's sort of playing Day 1, but he's not actually pushing anything. He's not being obnoxious, but he's not doing anything. Compare to last game as town, he was playing as obnoxiously as possible, but was still invested in solving the game, still had a push. The contrast is pretty large.
He hates being town, loves being scum. He was mad to roll town, as he said, but three minutes later he was happy and asking questions. Throughout his entire filter he's been very happy and content, no complaints about rolling town at all.
That's mafia.
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Okay, give me a moment to read LS filter.
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Well he likes playing town with me even if I have been afk for large portions of the day.
There is no reason to put something that is NAI and make it out to be like he is lock scum when it just isn't so, if he flips scum it will be because of something else.
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Like, this isn't a policy lynch at all.
MoosyDoosy isn't being lynched because he's bad. MoosyDoosy isn't being lynched because he's useless. MoosyDoosy isn't being lynched because he's obnoxious.
MoosyDoosy is being lynched because his play has too many contradictions and has no possible town mindset behind it, while it fits perfectly with mafia motivation of contributing as little as possible, in this case relying on meta to avoid the Day 1 lynch.
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So....you are policy lynching him
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This is 100% a policy lynch.
That being said, intentionally bad players should be policy lynched. I see no effort at all from moosy trying to actually help this game.
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Like this is an objectively good lynch.
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On December 03 2015 06:27 Palmar wrote:
This is 100% a policy lynch.
That being said, intentionally bad players should be policy lynched. I see no effort at all from moosy trying to actually help this game. Maybe it's a policy lynch for you, but I think I actually know what I'm doing.
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The last thing I recall from LS was Rels querying him as to his other scum reads, and he said he didn't have any (except Trfel? I cannot remember at the time)
The other thing I get nervous on with the number of votes with MoosyDoosy piling up, I do need to examine the motivations for people voting him. I'm not sure I understood Trfel's motivations on a first read for voting him as "guaranteed" scum - policy lynch sure, based on being useless/unreadable/self-meta, and to me that puts him in the same category as Onegu who is always a coin flip, but I need to do more filter diving before I collapse again. I did read Moosy's filter and if you are to take the guy completely seriously, you can argue there's lack of followup, or why is he focusing on Rels when Rels isn't the one being picked about. Trfel's arguments I saw so far were tone based? It just seemed out there - Trfel if I'm misunderstanding the "guaranteed scum" argument can you elaborate?
Fidei makes me a little nervous as well. I realise his job makes it hard for him to play and be active and I see he had an excuse tonight but to be fair, when he's mafia, he really falls off, and I mean really falls off. Of course it was so blatantly obvious last time (SOTW 2) that if he's mafia again, I would wager enough he'd be a little smarter to at least delay the inevitable if not for his teammates. I'll look at his filter or at least try to and see if anything is off.
Still digging around filters folks. Policy lynch would be my last resort.
Revisiting DYH since my vote is currently on him. I fell far too behind.
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Sadly that's just how he and a lot of the newer players play now Palmar. Its really annoying and sadly moosey is actually a good player when he decides to play, something about keeping a clean scum meta.
I think hes worth a power role move perhaps at night but I wouldn't lynch him today.
What do you think of LS Palmar.
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On December 01 2015 12:22 MoosyDoosy wrote:I’ll be honest and say I love these “Moosy is useless but it’s NAI!” “Moosy is a weird af player, can’t read him now!”  My name must spread far and wide.
Like taking pride in this shit is basically the hallmark of a person too dumb to really play mafia.
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On December 03 2015 06:29 Damdred wrote:
Sadly that's just how he and a lot of the newer players play now Palmar. Its really annoying and sadly moosey is actually a good player when he decides to play, something about keeping a clean scum meta.
I think hes worth a power role move perhaps at night but I wouldn't lynch him today.
What do you think of LS Palmar.
I haven't read him.
Also, we have Onegu to deal with, our vigi can't shoot two people.
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On December 03 2015 06:28 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 06:27 Palmar wrote:
This is 100% a policy lynch.
That being said, intentionally bad players should be policy lynched. I see no effort at all from moosy trying to actually help this game. Maybe it's a policy lynch for you, but I think I actually know what I'm doing.
Have you played with Moosy before?
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On December 03 2015 06:13 Damdred wrote:
Sure LS usually even if he is wrong is a strongish prescense in the thread giving his opinion and trying to get people to interact with him while he gives scum reads.
He lacks real reads in the thread, the few he has given have been little substance. The one scum read I can tell in his filter was Trfel that he has totally backed off of. He isn't looking to push anyone he is just existing.
Uh you are totally right. No current scum read, currently not trying to find scum. Not that many town reads either...
Short question to you though:
what was with your fidei vote earlier? What do you think of fidei now?
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On December 03 2015 06:23 Trfel wrote:
Like, this isn't a policy lynch at all.
MoosyDoosy isn't being lynched because he's bad. MoosyDoosy isn't being lynched because he's useless. MoosyDoosy isn't being lynched because he's obnoxious.
MoosyDoosy is being lynched because his play has too many contradictions and has no possible town mindset behind it, while it fits perfectly with mafia motivation of contributing as little as possible, in this case relying on meta to avoid the Day 1 lynch.
Explain the bolded, I couldn't find any contradictions in it aside from the grumpy/happy. Why are you saying there are too many?
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EPT
