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On December 03 2015 04:50 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:
Side note, I remember that Half the Sky mentioned that she'd only played with kushm4sta before in Carol of the Bells. Which is wrong, since we all played in I believe Student Mafia IV (one of the Student Mafia games, before the Newbie Student mafias), and kushm4sta was in that game and actually sort of played. He was mafia, so I'm surprised that Half the Sky forgot that.
But I just remembered that kushm4sta actually was in Carol of the Bells. If you have any doubt that kushm4sta is capable of playing this lazily as town, look at his play from Carol of the Bells.
He had (arguably) the most important town power role in the game. A mafia player baited the role to claim, and the entire thread yelled at how stupid that request was. Didn't matter, kushm4sta didn't care and just claimed his role and died.
In retrospect, it was pretty darn hilarious, but at the time it was infuriating. No I did not forget that. I know I cited both games. And kush wasn't mafia in the Student game. No way. I remember the lynch trains bouncing between both of us and both of us were town and I had modconfirmed myself because I posted after the bloody deadline. Eh, wow. My memory really is awful.
My bad, sorry about that.
(cries in a corner)
To answer your questions:
- My early post to LightningStrike was a reaction test. That argument was an extremely stupid reason to scumread ANYONE. I don't scumread people for not posting less than an hour into the game. You don't seem to believe this for whatever reason, I don't have anything more to add.
- I wasn't commenting on DoYouHas' lack of activity, but rather that he was fairly active early on and then vanished as soon as he got a townread from Damdred. That seemed like mafia motivation (play early and get townread, then get a more vocal player to townread you, and match their views and let them do the yelling so you can sit back and watch), and then his play transitioned into a single-post update much later. However, his later play suggests that it's more likely that he's just a low post count player. And I think he's more likely town for reasons previously mentioned.
- However, scum does NOT know the setup. I checked the OP, and I'm sure of it.
I believe that's everything, if I missed something please ask.
Half the Sky, MoosyDoosy is mafia and needs to be lynched. Trust me.
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On December 03 2015 04:50 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 04:47 disformation wrote:On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:On December 01 2015 08:37 Rels wrote:
Yo.
If you're boxer you fucking shut up. There is two possible mafia setups: one with two possible town setups with one boxer each so it doesn't matter. And one when we have either boxer + vet, or cop + vig. In that last case, mafia wants to roleblock their kill target in the vet setup, or roleblock someone else on the cop + vig setup.
Boxer claiming would make them know what is the thing to do.
Tldr if you're boxer you shut up unless you're getting lynched.
Tldr 2 the two people pushing for boxer to claim are suspicious. Damdred and doyouhas I'm going to bring this up again. Please, hear me out, but I DO NOT WANT TO START A MECHANICS DISCUSSION. First, I will assume that the argument that Rels presents about the BoxeR claiming is 100% correct. No matter what. No questions asked. Just for the purpose of this argument. With this assumption, and two people telling the BoxeR to claim, it's important for this argument to be made as quickly as possible so that the BoxeR can see it and not claim. The thing is, Rels presents a really well-explained argument for this. It kind of feels too good to be true. He's already stopped to analyze the setups from a mafia perspective, and see what they know, and see what town knows. He's 100% sure that mafia doesn't know which setup the game uses, despite the standard Blazinghand newbie game using a similar four-option setup where the mafia team IS told the setup. Like, I know that Rels is good. But is he really this good? His first post of the game, 37 minutes after the day began.... It doesn't feel quite right.
Side note, I remember that Half the Sky mentioned that she'd only played with kushm4sta before in Carol of the Bells. Which is wrong, since we all played in I believe Student Mafia IV (one of the Student Mafia games, before the Newbie Student mafias), and kushm4sta was in that game and actually sort of played. He was mafia, so I'm surprised that Half the Sky forgot that. But I just remembered that kushm4sta actually was in Carol of the Bells. If you have any doubt that kushm4sta is capable of playing this lazily as town, look at his play from Carol of the Bells. He had (arguably) the most important town power role in the game. A mafia player baited the role to claim, and the entire thread yelled at how stupid that request was. Didn't matter, kushm4sta didn't care and just claimed his role and died. In retrospect, it was pretty darn hilarious, but at the time it was infuriating. Got noms. @the Rels part: you know that this is a fear read, right?^^ Meh. I don't like MoosyDoosy either. Nearly forgot about his flurry of one liner posts and then vanishing last night... *sigh* MoosyDoosy is mafia and you should vote him. "Fear read" is a stupid phrase (the only important thing it hints at is adding uncertainty/keeping options open, something like that, but it's much better to just say that and be specific). And this isn't a fear read, anyway. To me, Rels' post doesn't sound like it comes from town, and I described why. I'm not saying that Rels' play is towny, but he's capable of it as mafia so I'm scared of him. I'm saying that I don't think that this post comes from town and it's much easier to come from scum. Not making any conclusions yet but I'd like to see what people think about this post.
Okay, MoosyDoosy's filter is supar bad and as you have probably noticed I am not a fan.
Will respond to your stuff on Rels again in a moment.
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Vote Count
MoosyDoosy (4): Palmar, Fidei86, Trfel, disformation
DoYouHas (1): Half the Sky
Trfel (1): DoYouHas
Fidei86 (1): Rels
Half the Sky (1): kushm4sta
Not Voting (5): LightningStrike, The Shining, MoosyDoosy, Onegu, Damdred
Currently MoosyDoosy is set to be lynched.
This Day ends at Wednesday, Dec 02 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 23:00 GMT (+00:00). Which is in
Lynch Voting is done in the voting thread (here). Do not PM me your vote.
Voting is mandatory. You may not abstain.
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On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 08:37 Rels wrote:
Yo.
If you're boxer you fucking shut up. There is two possible mafia setups: one with two possible town setups with one boxer each so it doesn't matter. And one when we have either boxer + vet, or cop + vig. In that last case, mafia wants to roleblock their kill target in the vet setup, or roleblock someone else on the cop + vig setup.
Boxer claiming would make them know what is the thing to do.
Tldr if you're boxer you shut up unless you're getting lynched.
Tldr 2 the two people pushing for boxer to claim are suspicious. Damdred and doyouhas I'm going to bring this up again. Please, hear me out, but I DO NOT WANT TO START A MECHANICS DISCUSSION. First, I will assume that the argument that Rels presents about the BoxeR claiming is 100% correct. No matter what. No questions asked. Just for the purpose of this argument. With this assumption, and two people telling the BoxeR to claim, it's important for this argument to be made as quickly as possible so that the BoxeR can see it and not claim. The thing is, Rels presents a really well-explained argument for this. It kind of feels too good to be true. He's already stopped to analyze the setups from a mafia perspective, and see what they know, and see what town knows. He's 100% sure that mafia doesn't know which setup the game uses, despite the standard Blazinghand newbie game using a similar four-option setup where the mafia team IS told the setup. Like, I know that Rels is good. But is he really this good? His first post of the game, 37 minutes after the day began.... It doesn't feel quite right.
Okay. Let me try.
So you assume that the good play for town/boxeR is to not claim. Two people say the opposite. So Rels rushes to the help of town and presents a good argument why boxeR should not claim. So a) he is town or b) he wants the town cred.
He analyzes the setup, which is possible as either alignment.
hmmm... the op doesn't say whether mafia knows the setup or not... and you are right he seems pretty convinced that mafia does not know the setup. This part is kinda strange indeed...
The parts about it feels too good and is he this good confuse me a bit though. Like what do they add to this argument, besides making it look like a fear read a lot? =p
maybe I should go and read rels more in depth...
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On December 03 2015 04:58 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 04:50 Half the Sky wrote:On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:
Side note, I remember that Half the Sky mentioned that she'd only played with kushm4sta before in Carol of the Bells. Which is wrong, since we all played in I believe Student Mafia IV (one of the Student Mafia games, before the Newbie Student mafias), and kushm4sta was in that game and actually sort of played. He was mafia, so I'm surprised that Half the Sky forgot that.
But I just remembered that kushm4sta actually was in Carol of the Bells. If you have any doubt that kushm4sta is capable of playing this lazily as town, look at his play from Carol of the Bells.
He had (arguably) the most important town power role in the game. A mafia player baited the role to claim, and the entire thread yelled at how stupid that request was. Didn't matter, kushm4sta didn't care and just claimed his role and died.
In retrospect, it was pretty darn hilarious, but at the time it was infuriating. No I did not forget that. I know I cited both games. And kush wasn't mafia in the Student game. No way. I remember the lynch trains bouncing between both of us and both of us were town and I had modconfirmed myself because I posted after the bloody deadline. Eh, wow. My memory really is awful. My bad, sorry about that. (cries in a corner) To answer your questions: - My early post to LightningStrike was a reaction test. That argument was an extremely stupid reason to scumread ANYONE. I don't scumread people for not posting less than an hour into the game. You don't seem to believe this for whatever reason, I don't have anything more to add.
- I wasn't commenting on DoYouHas' lack of activity, but rather that he was fairly active early on and then vanished as soon as he got a townread from Damdred. That seemed like mafia motivation (play early and get townread, then get a more vocal player to townread you, and match their views and let them do the yelling so you can sit back and watch), and then his play transitioned into a single-post update much later. However, his later play suggests that it's more likely that he's just a low post count player. And I think he's more likely town for reasons previously mentioned.
- However, scum does NOT know the setup. I checked the OP, and I'm sure of it.
I believe that's everything, if I missed something please ask. Half the Sky, MoosyDoosy is mafia and needs to be lynched. Trust me.
Alright, fair enough on the first two. So you're back to null then pending a full catch up. Third one we might have to agree to disagree. I read the OP again. I see what you're saying but I've played enough BH games and cohosted with him enough that he does tell the scum team what roles they are or have, and at least they can narrow it down a little. Just saying.
Moving on.
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On December 03 2015 05:15 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:On December 01 2015 08:37 Rels wrote:
Yo.
If you're boxer you fucking shut up. There is two possible mafia setups: one with two possible town setups with one boxer each so it doesn't matter. And one when we have either boxer + vet, or cop + vig. In that last case, mafia wants to roleblock their kill target in the vet setup, or roleblock someone else on the cop + vig setup.
Boxer claiming would make them know what is the thing to do.
Tldr if you're boxer you shut up unless you're getting lynched.
Tldr 2 the two people pushing for boxer to claim are suspicious. Damdred and doyouhas I'm going to bring this up again. Please, hear me out, but I DO NOT WANT TO START A MECHANICS DISCUSSION. First, I will assume that the argument that Rels presents about the BoxeR claiming is 100% correct. No matter what. No questions asked. Just for the purpose of this argument. With this assumption, and two people telling the BoxeR to claim, it's important for this argument to be made as quickly as possible so that the BoxeR can see it and not claim. The thing is, Rels presents a really well-explained argument for this. It kind of feels too good to be true. He's already stopped to analyze the setups from a mafia perspective, and see what they know, and see what town knows. He's 100% sure that mafia doesn't know which setup the game uses, despite the standard Blazinghand newbie game using a similar four-option setup where the mafia team IS told the setup. Like, I know that Rels is good. But is he really this good? His first post of the game, 37 minutes after the day began.... It doesn't feel quite right. Okay. Let me try. So you assume that the good play for town/boxeR is to not claim. Two people say the opposite. So Rels rushes to the help of town and presents a good argument why boxeR should not claim. So a) he is town or b) he wants the town cred. He analyzes the setup, which is possible as either alignment. hmmm... the op doesn't say whether mafia knows the setup or not... and you are right he seems pretty convinced that mafia does not know the setup. This part is kinda strange indeed... The parts about it feels too good and is he this good confuse me a bit though. Like what do they add to this argument, besides making it look like a fear read a lot? =p maybe I should go and read rels more in depth... Maybe this is just not a good argument at all. One more try.
The key word is that Rels is rushing to the aid of town. Rushing, because speed is important. And his post is extremely knowledgeable, and is a really comprehensive explanation. I find it hard to believe that he got confirmation that scum didn't know the setup in time to make this post, for example.
If Rels was around earlier, he should have been posting. Town wouldn't avoid posting like that.
Basically, Rels took extra time to make sure his argument was completely explained and correct, when town wants to post as quickly as possible. This makes me wonder if the motivation behind the post is, instead of helping town, to make himself look better, which would mean that Rels is mafia.
The argument falls apart if Rels is good enough to make this post as town without taking much extra time, which is what I was trying to get at. That seems really unlikely, but I can't completely rule it out.
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Trfel, are you metareading kush town based on meta (laziness in Carol) and if so realising you were wrong on his game in student 4 (he was actually town in that game, but not lurky as Carol obv) does that change your read on him? Or were there other things you'd looked at that I missed?
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On December 03 2015 05:27 Half the Sky wrote:
Trfel, are you metareading kush town based on meta (laziness in Carol) and if so realising you were wrong on his game in student 4 (he was actually town in that game, but not lurky as Carol obv) does that change your read on him? Or were there other things you'd looked at that I missed?
I'm not making a read on kushm4sta.
I'm saying that lynching him for laziness alone is really stupid, since MoosyDoosy is obviously scum and should be lynched instead.
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On December 03 2015 05:22 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 05:15 disformation wrote:On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:On December 01 2015 08:37 Rels wrote:
Yo.
If you're boxer you fucking shut up. There is two possible mafia setups: one with two possible town setups with one boxer each so it doesn't matter. And one when we have either boxer + vet, or cop + vig. In that last case, mafia wants to roleblock their kill target in the vet setup, or roleblock someone else on the cop + vig setup.
Boxer claiming would make them know what is the thing to do.
Tldr if you're boxer you shut up unless you're getting lynched.
Tldr 2 the two people pushing for boxer to claim are suspicious. Damdred and doyouhas I'm going to bring this up again. Please, hear me out, but I DO NOT WANT TO START A MECHANICS DISCUSSION. First, I will assume that the argument that Rels presents about the BoxeR claiming is 100% correct. No matter what. No questions asked. Just for the purpose of this argument. With this assumption, and two people telling the BoxeR to claim, it's important for this argument to be made as quickly as possible so that the BoxeR can see it and not claim. The thing is, Rels presents a really well-explained argument for this. It kind of feels too good to be true. He's already stopped to analyze the setups from a mafia perspective, and see what they know, and see what town knows. He's 100% sure that mafia doesn't know which setup the game uses, despite the standard Blazinghand newbie game using a similar four-option setup where the mafia team IS told the setup. Like, I know that Rels is good. But is he really this good? His first post of the game, 37 minutes after the day began.... It doesn't feel quite right. Okay. Let me try. So you assume that the good play for town/boxeR is to not claim. Two people say the opposite. So Rels rushes to the help of town and presents a good argument why boxeR should not claim. So a) he is town or b) he wants the town cred. He analyzes the setup, which is possible as either alignment. hmmm... the op doesn't say whether mafia knows the setup or not... and you are right he seems pretty convinced that mafia does not know the setup. This part is kinda strange indeed... The parts about it feels too good and is he this good confuse me a bit though. Like what do they add to this argument, besides making it look like a fear read a lot? =p maybe I should go and read rels more in depth... Maybe this is just not a good argument at all. One more try. The key word is that Rels is rushing to the aid of town. Rushing, because speed is important. And his post is extremely knowledgeable, and is a really comprehensive explanation. I find it hard to believe that he got confirmation that scum didn't know the setup in time to make this post, for example. If Rels was around earlier, he should have been posting. Town wouldn't avoid posting like that. Basically, Rels took extra time to make sure his argument was completely explained and correct, when town wants to post as quickly as possible. This makes me wonder if the motivation behind the post is, instead of helping town, to make himself look better, which would mean that Rels is mafia. The argument falls apart if Rels is good enough to make this post as town without taking much extra time, which is what I was trying to get at. That seems really unlikely, but I can't completely rule it out.
Hmm... did he need to wait for confirmation? Maybe he was reading the op and based on that formed an assumption? Though he sounds very convinced for an assumption...
So yeah this is shady and probably good to keep in mind. The is he good enough or not part is kinda WIFOM though. Don't want to lynch him over MD solely for that.
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On December 03 2015 05:36 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 05:22 Trfel wrote:On December 03 2015 05:15 disformation wrote:On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote:On December 01 2015 08:37 Rels wrote:
Yo.
If you're boxer you fucking shut up. There is two possible mafia setups: one with two possible town setups with one boxer each so it doesn't matter. And one when we have either boxer + vet, or cop + vig. In that last case, mafia wants to roleblock their kill target in the vet setup, or roleblock someone else on the cop + vig setup.
Boxer claiming would make them know what is the thing to do.
Tldr if you're boxer you shut up unless you're getting lynched.
Tldr 2 the two people pushing for boxer to claim are suspicious. Damdred and doyouhas I'm going to bring this up again. Please, hear me out, but I DO NOT WANT TO START A MECHANICS DISCUSSION. First, I will assume that the argument that Rels presents about the BoxeR claiming is 100% correct. No matter what. No questions asked. Just for the purpose of this argument. With this assumption, and two people telling the BoxeR to claim, it's important for this argument to be made as quickly as possible so that the BoxeR can see it and not claim. The thing is, Rels presents a really well-explained argument for this. It kind of feels too good to be true. He's already stopped to analyze the setups from a mafia perspective, and see what they know, and see what town knows. He's 100% sure that mafia doesn't know which setup the game uses, despite the standard Blazinghand newbie game using a similar four-option setup where the mafia team IS told the setup. Like, I know that Rels is good. But is he really this good? His first post of the game, 37 minutes after the day began.... It doesn't feel quite right. Okay. Let me try. So you assume that the good play for town/boxeR is to not claim. Two people say the opposite. So Rels rushes to the help of town and presents a good argument why boxeR should not claim. So a) he is town or b) he wants the town cred. He analyzes the setup, which is possible as either alignment. hmmm... the op doesn't say whether mafia knows the setup or not... and you are right he seems pretty convinced that mafia does not know the setup. This part is kinda strange indeed... The parts about it feels too good and is he this good confuse me a bit though. Like what do they add to this argument, besides making it look like a fear read a lot? =p maybe I should go and read rels more in depth... Maybe this is just not a good argument at all. One more try. The key word is that Rels is rushing to the aid of town. Rushing, because speed is important. And his post is extremely knowledgeable, and is a really comprehensive explanation. I find it hard to believe that he got confirmation that scum didn't know the setup in time to make this post, for example. If Rels was around earlier, he should have been posting. Town wouldn't avoid posting like that. Basically, Rels took extra time to make sure his argument was completely explained and correct, when town wants to post as quickly as possible. This makes me wonder if the motivation behind the post is, instead of helping town, to make himself look better, which would mean that Rels is mafia. The argument falls apart if Rels is good enough to make this post as town without taking much extra time, which is what I was trying to get at. That seems really unlikely, but I can't completely rule it out. Hmm... did he need to wait for confirmation? Maybe he was reading the op and based on that formed an assumption? Though he sounds very convinced for an assumption... So yeah this is shady and probably good to keep in mind. The is he good enough or not part is kinda WIFOM though. Don't want to lynch him over MD solely for that. Oh, no, don't ever lynch anyone over MoosyDoosy 
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On December 03 2015 04:57 Half the Sky wrote:
disformation - my focus was on "opportunistic" being scumlike, not "nitpicky" (second question), which can be for either alignment. I know he mentioned the word opportunistic, so that is why.
second question - I will admit I might be misremembering but again interactions with others as I missed some of the key events early on.
Getting through your last response now, and then will weigh in on the others.
Ahm I get the quote now, thanks. 
Yeah, it think I was answering Trfel's question and talked to Damdred about his answer to my question and got distracted by kush halfway through... after that I wrote the response to your question but you were already gone. Let me double check the timestamps, but I think this should be reasonable.
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On December 03 2015 05:39 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 04:57 Half the Sky wrote:
disformation - my focus was on "opportunistic" being scumlike, not "nitpicky" (second question), which can be for either alignment. I know he mentioned the word opportunistic, so that is why.
second question - I will admit I might be misremembering but again interactions with others as I missed some of the key events early on.
Getting through your last response now, and then will weigh in on the others. Ahm I get the quote now, thanks. Yeah, it think I was answering Trfel's question and talked to Damdred about his answer to my question and got distracted by kush halfway through... after that I wrote the response to your question but you were already gone. Let me double check the timestamps, but I think this should be reasonable.
Yeah, you said you want to re-read me after my interactions with Trfel and Damdred. I also kust went ahead and threw my vote at kush before that, too. Still want to see a follow up to that re-read + looking at my answers for you though. 
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A bit more than 2h until the deadline and we still have 5 ppl not voting and only one serious wagon...
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Hmm... was skimming through the rest of Rels filter. Looked pretty good to me.
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I'm here. Work is hectic and its rainy which makes it worse but I'll catch up as fast as I can. Just don't flame me for missing anything.
I do see a few votes on MD. Anyone defending him or pushing a diff lynch at all?
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I'm not so sure moosey is mafia.
I've given other reads
however I think that LS is mafia and I should be sheeped on this.
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On December 03 2015 06:09 The Shining wrote:
I'm here. Work is hectic and its rainy which makes it worse but I'll catch up as fast as I can. Just don't flame me for missing anything.
I do see a few votes on MD. Anyone defending him or pushing a diff lynch at all?
nope.
On December 03 2015 06:09 Damdred wrote:
I'm not so sure moosey is mafia.
I've given other reads
however I think that LS is mafia and I should be sheeped on this.
Your timing is great. Was just like... "wait, LS is in this game..."
I also remember HtS case on him being decent... can you elaborate further?
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Sure LS usually even if he is wrong is a strongish prescense in the thread giving his opinion and trying to get people to interact with him while he gives scum reads.
He lacks real reads in the thread, the few he has given have been little substance. The one scum read I can tell in his filter was Trfel that he has totally backed off of. He isn't looking to push anyone he is just existing.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Vote Count
MoosyDoosy (4): Palmar, Fidei86, Trfel, disformation
DoYouHas (1): Half the Sky
Trfel (1): DoYouHas
Fidei86 (1): Rels
Half the Sky (1): kushm4sta
LightningStrike (1): Damdred
Not Voting (4): LightningStrike, The Shining, MoosyDoosy, Onegu
Currently MoosyDoosy is set to be lynched.
This Day ends at Wednesday, Dec 02 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
Lynch Voting is done in the voting thread (here). Do not PM me your vote.
Voting is mandatory. You may not abstain.
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Damdred, have you read MoosyDoosy's filter recently?
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EPT
