EPTI also don't really understand why you want to rely on having one of our blue roles claim when I have shown that GB lied and for now reason other than to justify his claim.
Newbie Student Mafia XIV: Firefly - Page 68
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Breshke
Australia3749 Posts
I also don't really understand why you want to rely on having one of our blue roles claim when I have shown that GB lied and for now reason other than to justify his claim. | ||
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CopCake
4378 Posts
On September 07 2015 09:13 MoosyDoosy wrote: ok i've calmed down a bit. this is where i'm at. town: raynpelikoneet, NocturneMage town lean: yamato77 null: Superbia, scott31337, boxerfred, Breshke, Alakaslam people to look into: CopCake, Fidei86, GlowingBear i want reads from all of my null people. - Superbia has been asking a lot but not giving much reads which creates the illusion of a town working hard. - boxerfred and Breshke need to participate some more. - Alakaslam needs to do some more work and not filling his filter with useless posts. has a relaxed manner and the town read on n00bKing which i liked. people to look into: - GlowingBear's play was weird af at EoD. he needs to put in some work although he'll probably be sorted out by D2. - i've already talked about CopCake. - Fidei86 did some weird EoD things and i don't like how he's focused on me when i've answered his questions. rather he's refused to listen to them and seems to want to force a lynch on me. he's also been town reading copcake for no reason. once copcake flips scum, this is my next target. basically half the players are null haha tell us why? | ||
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Breshke
Australia3749 Posts
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scott31337
United States2979 Posts
Quote specifics if you do not mind. | ||
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Breshke
Australia3749 Posts
On September 07 2015 07:17 GlowingBear wrote: JESUS I SAID I WAS VIGI BECAUSE MAFIA KNOW THE ROLES SO I WOULDNT BE SHOT AR NIHJT On September 07 2015 07:21 GlowingBear wrote: So he just checks me at night if he is smart. Then he gets a green check on me and I keep alive. That's why I didn't want to talk about my claim. Contradicts with the bolded in this On September 05 2015 11:32 GlowingBear wrote: Meh, I don't know. I'm not sure about you. I really dislike your pushes on me and Breshke because I think they were out of place. You should know what I was trying to do. Well, Breshke does. No use talking about it. I think the biggest problem is your read on yamato. It's off. It's still too early to call him town + I didn't like his opening, felt forced. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
I'm Drunk | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17324 Posts
We lynch him tomorrow ha? | ||
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scott31337
United States2979 Posts
GB have a drink with me Who are the other two mafia? | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On September 07 2015 13:19 scott31337 wrote: That Cali air has gotten to you. GB have a drink with me Who are the other two mafia? I thought we didn't lunch madia today | ||
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CopCake
4378 Posts
On September 07 2015 12:13 GlowingBear wrote: Hi I'm Drunk This is a lie you are not drunk if you were you would write bad gg we got you. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17324 Posts
Dude why Rayn and Yamato caved... They saw it in the moment but they caved Man. | ||
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Breshke
Australia3749 Posts
On September 07 2015 07:26 MoosyDoosy wrote: im not up for this. gb's thought process makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. why would he think cop would check him unless he's godfather??? Can you explain this MD? I don't really get the logic. On September 07 2015 07:27 Fidei86 wrote: yeah, you guys were right, no way I build a wagon on MD now. So I have to move to NK. Ugh. this feels really awkward. Probably mafia. | ||
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
Fidei talks a lot about n00bKing and a bit less about MoosyDoosy day 1. He clearly got his focus on these two players so he should be happy with the n00bKing wagon once it went off. However as soon as I entered the thread, fidei thought it would be a great thing to vote for me, based off literally one post I made which basically said "Hey guys, I'm here, I'm not inactive". I get that someone would vote me as long as I'm not there (policy) but why would you vote for an afk lurker as soon as he returns? This is like the first thing I don't understand about fidei. Next up, in the middle of EoD drama, he jumps off the GB wagon, sets his vote on someone completely irrelevant, then gets back on the next wagon which is kinda safe to vote with. I understand that he's not voting GB. I understand that he jumps in n00bKings face. I don't understand why he voted how he voted. I'm trying to figure out if that is scum indicative or paranoid town indicative. Diving into the filter a second time, there's this: On September 06 2015 08:54 Fidei86 wrote: Can I ask you a question - what is your read on Yamato? He seems to think that you are hard town reading each other. Are you? If you are reading him town, why? Well, there was 0 follow up on this. Zero. What is the point of these questions then? Also, this: + Show Spoiler [full post] + On September 06 2015 08:47 Fidei86 wrote: It seems to me like the most important event today so far is the shit-fight between rayn and n00b. Rayn looks pretty obviously town to me. This is exactly the same as his town meta in voice-mafia, he tries to lead the discussion right from the front, ask questions, point things out and generally just be loud. I do think that a couple of his pushes have been a little questionable - the whole Breshke "yamato/rayn magic" thing was blown waaaaay out of proportion, and I think people were right to point this out. But, yeah, that's what I would have expected from town rayn. I hate n00b's style of posting, because there's really no reason to be so rude. I get it, you think that you're better than us all. That's fine, you might well be. But you can't honestly be surprised to find people don't like arrogant, superior people. And you're doing both in spades. If you're town, you're just digging your own grave at the moment. The post I most disliked from n00bking was #801. I think it's worth me quoting it in full: I'm sitting here reading this post, and I just keep asking myself "why does a town n00b make this post?". The only reason to call people's posts bad, without following with a read on the poster, is if you're trying to stop momentum on a wagon you think is wrong. Otherwise, you're just soft-scumming the poster. I would say probably half of n00b's filter up to now is his fight with rayn. And through all of that, he hasn't actually formed a read on him yet? How does that even make sense? If n00b is town, I don't get why he essentially causes the entirety of d1 to be about his fight with rayn, someone he doesn't even seem to have a scum read on ??? n00b is a scum-read for now. That said, there are a ton of other interesting things about this fight that are worth pondering. Yamato's thread is one I think is worth parsing a little more. He again seems to have been swept up in the fight, and is taking lots of swings at n00b. I've spent a fair amount of time talking to Yamato on TS, and I would say off the bat that his posts sound like him. But at the same time, he's a strong player and his absolute focus on n00b this early seems a little off. I'm also not sure that his post #598 makes a ton of sense. Rayn's read on Yamato is flimsy, at best. Even rayn would surely have to admit that trying to discern someone's alignment from how excited they are in their first post is pretty difficult. For two people who only know each other over the internet, it would be basically impossible. So why is yamato so keen to emphasise that he and rayn are hard town-reading each other? I think I will read Moosy and GB's filters, then head to bed. Any questions, fire away in the meantime. n00b is a scum-read for now. He's contradicting himself there: On September 07 2015 07:52 Fidei86 wrote: All I can say is that I'd been town-reading Cake and NK all day, basically, and I really didn't want to vote for either. You're right, I had to, but I was stubborn at first. Not much more I can say about it really. On September 07 2015 17:27 Fidei86 wrote: @Breshke I've already explained this - I was town reading n00b and Cake all day, and I didn't want to vote for either. I moved to n00b because I needed to choose one of the wagons other than GB. I was just being stubborn in not moving to n00b straight away. *shrug* idk what my Mafia motivation would be to not move to n00b (town) straight away, but then I guess I would say that. Concluding, there are some major flaws in Fidei's gameplay. 1. He does not push his votes. 2. He votes for people that he townread "basically all day" 3. He heavily contradicts himself in terms of his scum/townreads which is quite strange since, well, in the end he voted his town read. So I strongly suggest to look into Fidei in the context of the first 40 pages or so (which I still didn't manage to read up completely ffs). | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On September 06 2015 18:53 Fidei86 wrote: GB I have thought about this overnight and I don't know if it makes sense for scum n00b to post in the way that he has. Like, the points he makes are *okay* and a lot of them against Rayn I actually made myself. People seem to be scumming him more for his tone, and I agree he has been very obnoxious. But isn't that more likely to come from town than Mafia? Why does Mafia come in and generally make as many enemies as possible? I'm also acutely aware that it's a newbie town error just to lynch the most outspoken player d1. As to GB, I read his filter and nothing really jumped out at me. I agree with Rayn that his thread entry was highly counter-productive, and I do not agree with his outlook on blue roles in general. But anyone who was in the "why are scum winning" thread won't need me to rehash the whole GB fake cop check thing. TL:DR is that town GB makes fake blue claims which do reveal information but which also get him lynched. The whole thing is NAI for now. @BF The post you're quoting from is basically my first substantive contribution of the game. After I made that post, I made the one I quote above, where I said that, on reflection, I thought n00b was town. That was my thought/read progression. I suppose you could say that it wasn't true that I had been town reading him *all day*, but I thought that was a fair enough reflection of my thought pattern, and was quicker than saying "well I did think he was initially scum, but then I thought he was town relatively early on and then I maintained that thought through EOD". Regarding your criticism more generally - I think D1 was hamstrung by the fact that rayn, n00b, MD and Cake more or less set the potential wagons quite early. Town was mostly discussing n00b v Cake all day. GB came up very late as a potential wagon. Now I will admit that I didn't strongly push my scum read on you, or on MD, but regarding you it quickly became clear that (i) nobody really agreed with my read on you, and (ii) people weren't going to move off n00b/Cake anyway. In those circumstances, it would have been a waste of time to keep pushing you. Re MD, I was panicking. As I've said before, I didn't want to vote n00b or Cake, but I basically had to choose one of them in order to save GB (when you get to reading EOD you'll notice that I got berated pretty quickly after I moved to MD). I chose MD in the heat of the moment, because there has been something that has been bugging me about his posting style all day - some of his posts are non-serious (using weird spellings, using strange phraseology) but some of his posts have been serious. I also wasn't a fan of his Cake read. But I didn't have time to make a full post on it, it was just a hunch, but it felt better than voting n00b or Cake. I quickly realised I was being stubborn and switched to n00b. I voted for him so I obviously can't avoid responsibility entirely for what happened. I should have done better at finding scum reads during D1. But if you're going to point fingers at people for not pushing their reads, you're going to have to scum read everyone except rayn, Moosy, Cake and Yamato basically, as they're the people who mostly drove discussion d1. Since that leaves eight people -- including yourself -- I'd say that it's not the best reasoning to scum read someone. Plus, you know, I'm town, so there's that. Clearly the GB claim and the n00b flip has mixed things up quite a bit. I think we're all going to need to sit down and think very carefully about who we pressure moving forward. I'll be doing that too, once I get a breather from the pressure you and scott are putting on, and probably once I get home from work this evening. | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
@BF The post you're quoting from is basically my first substantive contribution of the game. After I made that post, I made the one I quote above, where I said that, on reflection, I thought n00b was town. That was my thought/read progression. I suppose you could say that it wasn't true that I had been town reading him *all day*, but I thought that was a fair enough reflection of my thought pattern, and was quicker than saying "well I did think he was initially scum, but then I thought he was town relatively early on and then I maintained that thought through EOD". Hm I'm not sure if that weakens my concern. I understand that you'd say once "all day" but you said it like 2 or 3 times, stressing it out quite a bit. That made me mention it in the first place tbh. Also I don't understand how you'd progress from scum to town to vote, although you did it exactly that way. Now I will admit that I didn't strongly push my scum read on you, or on MD, but regarding you it quickly became clear that (i) nobody really agreed with my read on you, and (ii) people weren't going to move off n00b/Cake anyway. In those circumstances, it would have been a waste of time to keep pushing you. This is were I disagree. Considering (i), I think that it wasn't that people necessarily disagreed but more that people simply didn't care (which tbh I liked since there was no way I would have been more active than I was yesterday. I'm still sick, however I'm at least awake). You could've brought that topic back up to attention during the day, even during EoD, especially if your town read is under lynch pressure. Regarding (ii), this is wrong - as a fact, people moved to GB, proving your example wrong already. When that happened, you moved from the main wagons to a completely unimportant vote. That doesn't make sense, especially since you say now that you couldn't see other wagons than the two mentioned. I mean okay, your switch to MD makes sense because while it looks like coming out of nowhere, your filter actually contains quite a lot of stuff on MD. Okay, granted. I'm actually willing to let go of the pressure that I inititually put on you. Keep in mind that while I wrote a lot on you, I didn't come down to say that you're totally scummy. In fact i don't think you're totally scummy. But what strikes me is that, as said and as elaborated before, your vote behaviour is quite inconistent. I really like your answer although I disagree. Does that make sense? | ||
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
For what it's worth, I really like your case on me and how you reacted to my response. It's totally understandable to retain suspicion on me (for the reason I give above, and also because it's dumb to hard-town read someone n1), but you seem to be thinking about what I said. I think you're probably a worthy town-lean at the moment, although yeah ... we'll need help to get this train back on the tracks tomorrow, so try and get caught up asap. Sorry you're still sick. If it makes you feel any better, I'm still at work. | ||
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
A) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Doctor, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon B) 1 Town Vigilante, 1 Town Veteran, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 2 Mafia Goons C) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Jailkeeper, 1 Town Unaware Miller, 7 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Framer, 1 Mafia Goon Given the above roles, I definitely do not think that it makes sense that the vig, veteran or jailkeeper CC. The vig will be able to claim as soon as the vig takes his shot, which I understand they tend to quite early in games anyway (is that right? HTS always advocated shooting lurkers, but we haven't had any absolutely trash-tier lurkers this game, really, except BF who has picked it up overnight). No need to rush. There's only a 1/3 chance that if GB is mafia he's the RBer anyway, and even then, the RBer has to double-stack with the KP anyway, and all he'd be blocking would be the veteran, so it's hardly a priority to kill him. The veteran doesn't need to claim because the vig *will* claim at some point, following his shot. I don't think the jailkeeper should claim because his role is too valuable to trade for just one mafia's life AT THIS STAGE. As I said above, the flips mean that if you're the JK and you die, the information you have viz GB comes out anyway. I'd rather have you doing work in the background. The only CC that might be valuable is if we have an actual doctor. My reasoning here is that GB has 2/3 chance (assuming his was a panic and not pre-planned claim) of being either the GF or the roleblocker. Both have a big chance of screwing over the cop checks - the cop being the other blue role. The only downside is that the doc probably gets NKd N2, unless of course GB flips RBer, in which case he can save himself anyway. IDK, I wanted to riddle the above out, but I'd like to hear what others thing. Getting another mafia now would be huge, and given the mafia power roles, it might just be worth trading the doctor for. That said, I've never really been through a claim-counterclaim scenario, so others will no doubt have more thoughts than I do. | ||
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Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
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