TL Mafia LXXII: Gaiden 2

On August 22 2015 08:21 Koshi wrote:
/sitout

On August 26 2015 10:23 Trfel wrote:
Then why did you post and say that?

On August 26 2015 23:19 rsoultin wrote:


i expect

"you're so amazing"
"what can i do to be like you?"
"here let me give you a cookie"

when/if jat flips scum this game

^^

is this just a general protest or an actual townread on the un-townreadable?

On August 26 2015 23:21 Palmar wrote:

I don't know what to think.

On one hand I was hoping you'd fall in line and help us lynch scum.

On the other hand, I haven't had a good opportunity to berate you for a while now.

On August 27 2015 00:01 Palmar wrote:

WHO IS MAFIA THEN EINSTEIN?

On August 27 2015 00:01 VisceraEyes wrote:
No, it's based on what I thought originally PLUS how he's responded to people on his wagon. I think his post to Trfel is in character regardless of his alignment, and I think how he's responded to Palmar's push (maybe not so much rsoultin's, but Palmar's for sure...maybe because rsoultin's point is stronger than Palmar's...) has felt pretty townie. He's capable of this play as mafia, but he's also capable of this play as town imo.

On August 27 2015 00:05 marvellosity wrote:

^ do this though.

On August 27 2015 00:10 KelsierSC wrote:
oh ninjad to fuck

On August 27 2015 00:11 marvellosity wrote:

And what about me? I'm visibly fence sitting

On August 27 2015 00:17 marvellosity wrote:

you are the Wave counterwagon :p

P.S. there is a voting thread

On August 27 2015 00:20 Palmar wrote:
I need more people to post so I can clear them so we can lynch mafia jat.

On August 27 2015 00:37 Vivax wrote:
Been a while since Palmar actually played on D1. What happened?

On August 27 2015 00:46 MoosyDoosy wrote:

-shrugs- wave wasn't relative to the discussion but you bring him up out of nowhere? lynching him solely off of entrance posts and behavior when the game is more euro time based seems a poor argument as well.

Then again, there isn't much to show that he's town, but don't you think we should let him post some before trying to lynch him?

On August 27 2015 01:06 WaveofShadow wrote:

On the basis that they took over the thread entirely.
Unless they are BOTH scum and are playing beyond both of their usual abilities which to me frankly seems near impossible, it's extremely unlikely based on their interactions that one of them is scum and the other isn't.

On August 27 2015 01:41 WaveofShadow wrote:

Because they can both read each other extremely well and due to the amount of back-and-forth they have already had, it's likely that one would have found something about the other strange already.

On August 27 2015 01:46 marvellosity wrote:

red: please show where i did this

green: please provide one instance of this happening, because as far as i'm aware this is never how it works and you're making things up

On August 27 2015 01:55 Palmar wrote:
Oh VE thinks I'm mafia.

I guess that takes him back off the do not lynch list.

On August 27 2015 01:59 WaveofShadow wrote:

Yeh that was a very good one.
One of the best games I've ever had the pleasure of playing in.

Marv do you not think that VE has similar cohones to me in that he does not fear taking you/Palmar on as scum?
I don't think Palmar's OMGUS has any particular true reason behind it but I don't think VE is ruled out.

On August 27 2015 04:53 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


This post makes Wave scum. Specifically, the text in bold. Wave comes back to the thread to see the popular scum-candidate JAT sitting on a wagon driven by Palmar. His read takes no consideration for JAT's actions this game. In fact, he says he respects Palmar's play enough on day 1 to sheep him without regard.

Wave claims that he has gained some confidence in his play. If wave truly has gained confidence in his play (I.E. reads), then why is he letting Palmar, who may very well be mafia or just plain wrong about JAT, decide the lynch for him? Wave is blindly assuming that Palmar is town and correct without A) Assessing the lynch candidates motivations / actions and B) Looking at Palmar's push in and of itself. He doesn't even quote a post by Palmar and agree with the reasons.

##Vote: Wave



JAT hits the nail on the head here. Wave's defense against this is basically "I'm better than this", which I find lazy. Regardless, Wave still fails to situate why he thinks Palmar's case is good.



When Wave extrapolates upon how Palmar plays, he admits that Palmar's early reads are 'just 'cause' and may/may not be accurate.

How can Wave seriously think JAT is his top scumread / top vote for the day if he: 1) Has not evaluated JAT's actions, or explained why Palmar's case is good 2) Knows that Palmar's early reads are often 'just cause' 3) Is not sure of Palmar's alignment? It makes no sense to me. Palmar may have caught Wave as scum day 1 in another game and he respects him, but this course of action is scummy regardless of how you package it. It's incredibly convenient if JAT flips town, and then Wave can take no responsibility for the lynch.

All I want you to answer @WaveofShadow:

Why is Palmar's case good. Not Rsoultin's, or anyone else's, but Palmar's case. What does Palmar say that is convincing and makes the case against JAT generate a "fairly decent read"?

On August 27 2015 07:37 KelsierSC wrote:
I don't buy the CC looks too good so he must be mafia.

On August 27 2015 22:20 KelsierSC wrote:


im just not going to do that

On August 27 2015 08:09 justanothertownie wrote:

Whatever. Fact is I am not mafia and I trust you to see this at some point even thoughI will not have much time for this game. I would be very disappointed if you didn't because you are more or less the only player on this site who can read me.

On August 27 2015 10:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


does anyone else find this post weird by VE?

On August 27 2015 00:01 VisceraEyes wrote:
No, it's based on what I thought originally PLUS how he's responded to people on his wagon. I think his post to Trfel is in character regardless of his alignment, and I think how he's responded to Palmar's push (maybe not so much rsoultin's, but Palmar's for sure...maybe because rsoultin's point is stronger than Palmar's...) has felt pretty townie. He's capable of this play as mafia, but he's also capable of this play as town imo.

On August 27 2015 00:03 VisceraEyes wrote:


Given the bolded I find town to be more likely than mafia.

On August 27 2015 22:41 KelsierSC wrote:


honestly I don't really think much of it, I don't think being absolute or forceful is mafia indicative. If I say "you're mafia answer this question" it puts you under pressure and makes you respond.

On August 27 2015 08:07 Trfel wrote:
Not sure if I want to lynch justanothertownie, but currently leaning towards no?

Don't really have time to filter dive right now.

I want to lynch Hopeless1der.

##vote Hopeless1der

Leaning towards town on MoosyDoosy and VisceraEyes.

On August 27 2015 17:59 Trfel wrote:

+ Show Spoiler [Pointless Fluff] +

Town

Palmar + Show Spoiler +
marvellosity + Show Spoiler +


Town Lean

MoosyDoosy + Show Spoiler +
KelsierSC + Show Spoiler +
Mr. Cheesecake + Show Spoiler +

Null

rsoultin + Show Spoiler +

Mafia Lean

VisceraEyes + Show Spoiler +
Hopeless1der + Show Spoiler +
justanothertownie + Show Spoiler +

Not making much progress on WaveofShadow, going to just go to bed. I don't really feel like I want to lynch justanothertownie right now, though that could change.

Also, it's funny how nicely my reads list matches the player list XD

On August 27 2015 23:00 justanothertownie wrote:

Yes, that post evidently induces an urge to vote.

On August 27 2015 23:04 Palmar wrote:

No it isn't.

On August 27 2015 23:14 Palmar wrote:

Bads gonna bad.

On August 27 2015 23:21 WaveofShadow wrote:
I mean now I just wanna lynch JAT cause PJsalt.
Wouldn't lynch moosy anymore, will check up on CC meta at some point but wouldn't lynch either today anyway.

I guess Trfel is the other choice atm? VE's recent find is good but for whatever reason I'm not super convinced. Can't explain why.

Also vivax asking after me in that weird way is really indicative of something in his play but now I forget what it is. I remember seeing it a game we played semi-recently and it helped me read him but bleh

On August 27 2015 23:22 Palmar wrote:

Good!

Here's a really, really serious question to everyone in the game:

WoS
VE
Vivax
BF
Deconduo
CC
JAT

There is mafia, probably 2-3 in this group of players.

If we remove JAT from this pool (just for the sake of conversation) who do we lynch?

On August 27 2015 23:26 Palmar wrote:

Yeah but he got unreasonably mad that game.

I have no real opinion on him.

I just read deconduo's filter. I kinda wanna lynch him but I'm also just really mad he's playing like this, whatever his team is.

On August 27 2015 23:28 marvellosity wrote:
A case can be convincing and come from the best, middling, or worst player and you can still feel unconvinced about it for unexplainable reasons. The quality of the player making the case isn't that relevant

On August 27 2015 23:35 Palmar wrote:

Yeah screw this



I'm just going to sit back and watch this train wreck unfold.

On August 27 2015 23:37 marvellosity wrote:
don't really see myself lynching trfel today

On August 27 2015 23:40 rsoultin wrote:
Truffle is town I'm pretty sure will not lynch

On August 27 2015 23:40 Palmar wrote:

I love the phrase "No offense".

No offense but you're a moron.

It's like a get-out-of-jail-free card for saying whatever the fuck you want.

On August 27 2015 23:47 KelsierSC wrote:


no offense

On August 27 2015 23:48 rsoultin wrote:


The inconsistency is based on different responses to the same post so his point is invalid given a filter dive often gives different impressions?

The case is townie but the conclusion is wrong I think lol

On August 27 2015 23:58 rsoultin wrote:


Why would he do this as scum?

On August 28 2015 00:03 WaveofShadow wrote:
I am absolutely loving this game.
Thanks for playing with me, friends.

On August 28 2015 00:08 marvellosity wrote:
let's abandon the game and just have an orgy?

On August 28 2015 00:11 marvellosity wrote:

you best still have the beard

On August 28 2015 00:16 rsoultin wrote:
Beards are itchy :0

And catch nasties :/

On August 28 2015 00:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
Trfel = Truffle = Mushroom = Toxic = Bad = Mafia

Gogo Lynch Train of Justice!!

On August 28 2015 00:23 marvellosity wrote:

You've got a LONG way to go to convince me that truffles, and especially mushrooms, are a bad thing.

On August 28 2015 00:27 Palmar wrote:

hmm

I have a hipster haircut

On August 28 2015 22:24 marvellosity wrote:
kinda don't mind how Vivax dealt with pushing Trfel towards the end of the day? anyone think anything about it?

On August 28 2015 22:41 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I find it funny that JAT is painting himself as the one who was trying to be productive the whole time.

On the other hand, rsoul should just suck it up and work with JAT. Like clearly something about the way you post makes him very angry but that's only his fault for reading ur posts that way.

On August 28 2015 23:07 MoosyDoosy wrote:

split town and win as mafia CLEARLY the answer ur looking for amirite?

On August 28 2015 23:13 justanothertownie wrote:
I don't think it's paticularly mafia indicative VE. It would be if it was coming from an experienced/talented player.

On August 28 2015 17:09 Trfel wrote:
Just some random musings.

Going to be completely honest, I'm annoyed that people are scumreading me for terrible reasons and refusing to listen. You have been warned.

In the end, I don't really want to lynch Hopeless1der any more. His play feels much more genuine than last game, and I don't feel like he'd be playing at all if he were mafia. I find it quite likely that he is town.

I also think that justanothertownie is probably town. Later in the day, his play changed to be much more productive. I still need to reread his filter, though.

I was suspicious of Vivax earlier, but his play towards End of Day is exactly what I would expect from a somewhat lazy town Vivax.

Still confident in Palmar and marvellosity being town.

MoosyDoosy's play at End of Day felt very off to me. I suppose it's probably from town, but I want to take another look at it.

The fact that deconduo kept pushing for lynching Hopeless1der instead of boxerfred looks slightly towny to me. Regardless of Hopeless1der's alignment, mafia is happy with boxerfred being lynched. And if the lynch had switched onto Hopeless1der, and Hopeless1der did flip town, that would have made deconduo look worse (and obviously deconduo wouldn't bus his teammate there). Town lean.

KelsierSC seems town here, but I am a little paranoid.

I'm really wondering if rsoultin is mafia here after all? I don't have any reasons, only some really stupid tells. I'll take a close look at her filter tomorrow. I'm probably being really stupid, but I can't shake this feeling.

Also still suspicious of VisceraEyes, though I seem to be the only person who is. Still waiting for him to actually address what I asked him to.

Probably not going to do much more until tomorrow. And yes, I realize that I have way too many townreads. Deal with it.

On August 28 2015 23:31 justanothertownie wrote:

You actually think Trfel could be scum with Palmar? It seems very unlikely to me that Palmar would associate this heavily with a mafia partner.

On August 28 2015 23:32 justanothertownie wrote:

I just don't think mafia Palmar bases his whole attack on town JAT on town JATs correct scumread on Trfel.

On August 28 2015 23:36 marvellosity wrote:

meh, it's just not how i read it

so he's wrong, so what? and he knows he has too many townreads. i think the explanations for why he came to some of them read ok.

Do you have specific reads in there (other than the one on you) where you disagree with how he arrived at a certain conclusion?

On August 28 2015 23:53 marvellosity wrote:

i think that's lazy.

you've played zillions of games with him too, and disregarding your wealth of experience with how he plays is quite frankly ludicrous.

On August 29 2015 00:01 marvellosity wrote:
alright. 2 & 3 is fair enough.

i think you know 4 is a bit silly because he will always say exactly the same about you

On August 29 2015 00:02 marvellosity wrote:

but you shouldn't think it. i don't know how you can possibly think it given how Palmar literally 100% of the time behaves towards you.

On August 29 2015 00:05 marvellosity wrote:

"I have 5 balls of different colour, red, yellow, blue, green, purple.

Regardless of which one i show him, he always says the ball is red. Always.

I showed him a blue ball this game, he said it was red.

THAT IS REALLY SUSPICIOUS"

sorry, no bueno

On August 29 2015 00:41 Palmar wrote:

Yes this is exactly my problem with someone like VE.

He is literally chasing things that will never happen. He has, by choice, made himself useless. And I don't even think this makes him mafia. He is going after people that are part of this mutual giant circlejerk.

On August 29 2015 00:49 Palmar wrote:

Can you do everything again but assume that everything you've already done is wrong and bad?

That'd be great.

On August 29 2015 00:51 Palmar wrote:

Yes you are useless.

I am not mafia
Trfel is like 95% town

We are your #1 and #2 scumreads

therefore you might as well just not be playing the game.

On August 29 2015 00:52 marvellosity wrote:

because he definitely wouldn't say that as town

definitely not

oh no, town-Palmar wouldn't do that, no no no

On August 29 2015 00:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
VE time to detunnel.
Also palmar I assert that Trfel is only allowed to be 95% town if I am.

On August 31 2015 06:32 Vivax wrote:


No, just in time. CC acting townie as of late, Palmar acting like I don't know what and Kelsier heading for a modkill. We have to pick one.

Trfel would probably be a good lynch too but CC doesn't wanna vote him, it'd need at least you, jat and moosy to lynch him.

On August 31 2015 22:49 MoosyDoosy wrote:

Out of deconduo/Vivax/Kelsier who do you think is most likely to be Mafia?

On September 01 2015 23:21 justanothertownie wrote:

There is no medic. Vivax can only be a jailer. Why did you track Vivax?

On September 01 2015 23:27 justanothertownie wrote:
VE you should really have waited for Vivax claim if you are town

On September 01 2015 23:30 justanothertownie wrote:

Then you should have forced him to.

On September 01 2015 23:34 justanothertownie wrote:
I don't know but this way we can't catch him in a lie and it sucks. I find it highly suspicious how all those claims are coming now that the game is easy to solve if the masons are real.

On September 02 2015 00:31 Palmar wrote:
VE if you're town (which seems unlikely at this point) go read what Trfel posted from the QT.

Look at my super cocky attitude regarding defending Trfel throughout the game.

You KNOW this is the most Palmar thing in the world. Like I'm genuinely being an asshole with the extra information I have. Hell, I derided you so much for it when I was forcing you to re-evaluate your reads.

Also, Marv died calling me town and defending me. That should count for something.

On September 02 2015 01:37 justanothertownie wrote:

All marv did was saying he isn't very confident in his reads in general. There was no coming around.

On September 02 2015 01:38 justanothertownie wrote:
Why are you so sure that Vivax is town and Palmar/Trfel mafia VE? From your perspective Vivax could absolutely be mafia.

On September 02 2015 01:47 justanothertownie wrote:
But I still think Vivax is the correct lynch here for the reasons I stated. If he is town we lynch the masons tomorrow and the day after that and definitely reach a final 3.

On September 02 2015 01:49 Palmar wrote:

your explanation (and I mentioned this) is that he randomly lynches mason claims just because.

That's retarded anyway.

On September 02 2015 01:53 Palmar wrote:

Can you find marv coming around on me? Or did you just lie about that?

On September 02 2015 02:04 Trfel wrote:
Why would you ever say this now, and not wait for Vivax to claim his role?

On September 02 2015 02:12 justanothertownie wrote:

Yes, it is nice that you just repeated what I said. I don't see your problem. That's not a solved game though. If you are town Vivax is almost certainly mafia but we will still have to find the 2 between Moosy, KSC, VE and deconduo. Which like you said means we need to find 1 townie in there.

On September 03 2015 06:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I dont think VE is town based on his play. Its been awful.

However, Kelsier is the safest lynch today. If mafia are pulling shenannies then Vivax has a good point. Kels could just be the scum vigi. Either eay we know kels is confirmed mafia. Lynch him you fucks.

On September 03 2015 06:25 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I just dont understand why the hell you wouldnt hardclaims if you were the veteran vivax. You aint getting shot ever.

Also all of the blueclaims were fkin horrible this game besides marv. Palmar and trfel should have claimed d2. There is still a world in which they are mafia and vivax is the vet who random visited jat during the night and ve checked him.

Kelsier is in every world boys...

On September 03 2015 06:37 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


The only reason you may be town is because of your claim. I was reading you scum up until that point.

On September 03 2015 08:54 Palmar wrote:

call me confirmest town ever

On September 04 2015 06:15 deconduo wrote:


Nah. they are gonna kill Palmar. Doesn't matter anyway though, this game is over.

On September 04 2015 15:16 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


He never said anything about mafia shooting him.

On September 04 2015 06:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Just in case post:

VE is confirmed mafia because he lied about why he claimed to check vivax. Vivax never claimed blue till yesterday but VE claims he checked him because Vivax claimed during the night. Also cop tracker and masons seems OP when the town has 3 mislynches instead of 2.

KSC is mafia because of all the reasons given prior. Mafia vivax has to out and attempt to get masons lynched because the afk vote was on KSC. Vivax can just not claim and ride the votes to a town mislynch if ksc were town.

JAT is spewed town in any world, which means palmar was wrong d1 and i was right. I am happy with this result.

On September 04 2015 18:43 KelsierSC wrote:
Hmm don't know who to lynch. Maybe moosy

On September 04 2015 19:40 justanothertownie wrote:
I will shortly explain why I think the nightkill makes VE likely mafia:

First of all Palmar obviously would have gone ham about lynching VE which is a good reason to shoot him. Of course you can say that mafia could frame him this way.
But additionally - I am confirmed town if VE is town, right? So why would a mafia team that does not include VE shoot the guy that wants to lynch VE the most and is NOT confirmed town over the guy that's not as sure and IS confirmed town? It doesn't make much sense to do that.
Not shooting me only makes sense if VE is mafia which means I won't be confirmed once he flips down the line and on top of that they might have thought that me waffling about lynching him means that he could convince me not to in some way. Which he won't. The next 2 lynches will almost 100 % be VE and Kelsier. We just need to see in which order.

On September 04 2015 23:35 justanothertownie wrote:

If he flips town I am lynching you for tmi :/

When has he ever done this? How do you know he is doing this right now? Who is even mafia in your opinion?

On September 04 2015 23:36 justanothertownie wrote:
You seem more interested in being townread/stopping a lynch on Kelsier than figuring out who is mafia and pushing them.

On September 04 2015 23:39 justanothertownie wrote:
If you are town all you are doing right now is ranting at a confirmed townie instead of disproving his logic.

On September 04 2015 23:45 justanothertownie wrote:
Well, if you aren't trying you can't blame me afterwards. If you think Kelsier is town it should not be hard to figure out who is mafia from your position. I will not lynch deconduo before the second mafia flips and we know a little more about their roles.

On September 04 2015 23:53 justanothertownie wrote:
I am literally telling you that I am willing to listen to your contributions. But instead of contributing you decide to rage and whine instead.

/shrug