On August 21 2015 02:33 Half the Sky wrote: Kels you are here. What are your top scumreads?
dont have any
Seriously?
We're 44 pages into the game and you are telling me you don't have opinions on Fidei or Tubesock at least those two being the other two competing wagons?
You have/had an opinion on ruXxar and he's the leading wagon - you said previously you wanted to sheep town reads, so where are your strong town reads right now even?
waiting for marvauthority to vote then just sheep that
Let's say VA votes ruXxar. Then what?
he's not stupid so he won't
That was a hypothetical, and you completely missed the point of what I was asking. I could have asked the similar question - what if VA gets modkilled? There's a reason I'm asking (either way) like this.
Don't even need to comment on everyone - shit the top issues alone will do. A number of people have stopped roleplaying so there's some beginning point (since you commented on it earlier.) Hell, what if VA is scum?
I mean I'd say just "waiting" the way you are is quite scummy, with <4h remaining...
On August 21 2015 02:33 Half the Sky wrote: Kels you are here. What are your top scumreads?
dont have any
Seriously?
We're 44 pages into the game and you are telling me you don't have opinions on Fidei or Tubesock at least those two being the other two competing wagons?
You have/had an opinion on ruXxar and he's the leading wagon - you said previously you wanted to sheep town reads, so where are your strong town reads right now even?
waiting for marvauthority to vote then just sheep that
Let's say VA votes ruXxar. Then what?
he's not stupid so he won't
That was a hypothetical, and you completely missed the point of what I was asking. I could have asked the similar question - what if VA gets modkilled? There's a reason I'm asking (either way) like this.
Don't even need to comment on everyone - shit the top issues alone will do. A number of people have stopped roleplaying so there's some beginning point (since you commented on it earlier.) Hell, what if VA is scum?
I mean I'd say just "waiting" the way you are is quite scummy, with <4h remaining...
On August 21 2015 02:33 Half the Sky wrote: Kels you are here. What are your top scumreads?
dont have any
Seriously?
We're 44 pages into the game and you are telling me you don't have opinions on Fidei or Tubesock at least those two being the other two competing wagons?
You have/had an opinion on ruXxar and he's the leading wagon - you said previously you wanted to sheep town reads, so where are your strong town reads right now even?
waiting for marvauthority to vote then just sheep that
Let's say VA votes ruXxar. Then what?
he's not stupid so he won't
That was a hypothetical, and you completely missed the point of what I was asking. I could have asked the similar question - what if VA gets modkilled? There's a reason I'm asking (either way) like this.
Don't even need to comment on everyone - shit the top issues alone will do. A number of people have stopped roleplaying so there's some beginning point (since you commented on it earlier.) Hell, what if VA is scum?
I mean I'd say just "waiting" the way you are is quite scummy, with <4h remaining...
im clearly the towniest person in the game so
Are you like robik-lite or rayn or something?
not robik as I havent threatened to mess up anyone's lady parts
Regardless, KSC is playing to the cap of his ability currently which is to say none at all. So losing him or yamato would be no real loss if they had rolled town.
On August 21 2015 04:00 geript wrote: Regardless, KSC is playing to the cap of his ability currently which is to say none at all. So losing him or yamato would be no real loss if they had rolled town.
Chez actually could be a solid lynch today. I'm not lynching lurk for the sake of lynching lurk, bby. I know how you feel about it and you know how I feel as well but it's often just not productive.
Can you look at Tubesock/Tictock for me real quick? Specifically there was that one post I picked out when catching up of Tictoc's that just stuck out like a sore thumb. I think Rels picked up on it as well.
By the way I was thinking about it and if Lord Tolkien is FecalFeast, I am fairly vocal about my preference toward scum
I too am liking fidei more and more, still voting yamato until he does something I like.
1) Finally, someone figured it out. Now I can stop RPing and/or shitposting.
2) I am not, however, scum. So nyaaaaah. This is the same line of reasoning that I called out for being retarded when geript says: there's like an 80% chance that a Blazinghand role is scum". Role speculation based on flavor is bad and should make you feel bad.
Ticktock has had some posts that make me think he might be town. That's as much as I remember about it. But if you want to link the post you're talking about I'll take a look wave.
Tube... meh. I ahven't seen anything redeeming about him.
On August 21 2015 03:39 Half the Sky wrote: WHAT??????
Tube did you even read some of Fidei's latest posts? Maybe I'm biased because I know his play better but how the hell is he still a top scumread?
Yeah he looks better than before. Like he doesn't make me want to shake babies anymore. But his posts are still like wrong.
LIke his Chezinu Rule explanation. Earlier he admitted he didn't really know the rule, but again he's posting like he knows so he looks helpful.
The rule as I see it is basically specific to mafia players disdain for weird not super serious players. And the first time scum players play with a player like Chezinu (I think it applies also to players like LightningStrike, Sicklucker, Alakaslam and possibly ruXxar in this game ((he's playing weird AND rolled LS))) mafia jumps on the easy lynch.
In Chezinu's case it has never failed. Never.
Shit like that. Fidei's Damdred response highlights things best I think. His response had a more about Damdred the player than it did anything in this game. His answers show his head isn't really in this game figuring it out, it's how to be nice and survive. He had a bunch of thoughts but nothing that indicated if he would lynch damdred or not. So in a chance to actually do some stuff he didn't. Again.
On August 20 2015 16:12 Tictock wrote: So when I was looking at Fidei earlier I couldn't help but notice one of his pregame posts and something he said in his defense.
On August 20 2015 07:21 Fidei86 wrote: (8) I want to briefly address whether or not Ritoky would pretend to RNG me. I've played with Ritoky twice, but the second (himalayas) doesn't count because I was terrible town in that game until way after he got NKed. But in the first game, which was my first game too, basically I made all sorts of stupid newbie posts and mistakes and ritoky was scum softing me until he got NKed n1. I also said after himalayas that I really struggled because the game was big (although there was much much much more spam in tha game). This game is also big. So I think it's reasonable that he might have tagged me early as easy mis-lynch bait. The fact that I played into his hands with a pretty misguided thread entry only goes to show that he might have been onto something. But ... meh. It's hard for me to judge because he's going after me, so it's difficult to be totally objective. Anyone who was in Holy Guardians (VE, Damdred, TickTock) are better judges of this than me.
From Pregame:
On August 13 2015 17:41 Fidei86 wrote: I'm going to stay in this game, even though it's bigger than I'd like, and will rely upon rolling masons with HTS or some shit to keep me sane through D3.
So yea, this is very possible. Obviously this lead me to reading ritoky's filter from the perspective of him being scum pushing the RNG thing as a cover to push someone he thinks will be an easy mislynch.
At first it looks promising as it was all rit wanted to talk about in the first half of D1 and even now that I see rit talking about more than his RNG push he isn't really sharing any reads.
However I did feel that this defense of the RNG push was pretty decent.
On August 19 2015 13:41 ritoky wrote:
On August 19 2015 13:20 Breshke wrote:
On August 19 2015 13:10 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
On August 19 2015 12:41 Breshke wrote:
On August 19 2015 12:32 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
On August 19 2015 12:12 Breshke wrote: I don't think ritoky actually RNG'd fidel
He probably did.
On August 19 2015 07:08 ritoky wrote: Clearly what needs to happen this game is that we need to follow the most surefire way to lynch mafia and win games, and that is to follow the RNG lynch.
Here's how it works:
1) you will all follow me because i am better than you.
2) i will choose who we lynch every phase via RNG, then we will lynch him without question. the RNG will be determined by this post (the one you're reading right now). each post is assigned a unique id on team liquid which cannot be manipulated because of the rate of posts on TL; this makes it the perfect candidate for determining people via RNG. then from that post id i will use the following formula to determine whom is the candidate for lynch:
(sum of each individual digit in the post id [ex: 1111 = 4]) / 21 [number of players alive in game] * coefficient of the thread's stupidity
this formula will provide a number from 1 to 21, we will lynch the player it determines without hesitation or questioning. no possible explanation or reasoning could convince me that RNG lynching is in any way sub-optimal play. please bow before the RNG and watch it carry us to victory.
I don't think so given this explanation
I at first thought this was really scummy because if he was town why the fuck does he make this bullshit crap reason up to explain his "RNG" and not just be like yeah i used random.org
But it makes sense in a world where he is trying to be BH and trying to be idk the word long winded? and he couldn't remember the way/couldnt be bothered doing it the way BH does it.
So he is either a fucking shitter or scum
Not to say his following read on fidel is bad but I don't wanna talk about that until fidel has been around some more
Bh makes longish arguments backing his rng lynches all the time. Totally normal.
That's why i was saying it makes sense if that is in fact what he was doing
On August 19 2015 13:14 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
On August 19 2015 12:50 Breshke wrote:
On August 19 2015 12:46 JudgeJudy wrote:
On August 19 2015 12:41 Breshke wrote:
On August 19 2015 12:32 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
On August 19 2015 12:12 Breshke wrote: I don't think ritoky actually RNG'd fidel
He probably did.
On August 19 2015 07:08 ritoky wrote: Clearly what needs to happen this game is that we need to follow the most surefire way to lynch mafia and win games, and that is to follow the RNG lynch.
Here's how it works:
1) you will all follow me because i am better than you.
2) i will choose who we lynch every phase via RNG, then we will lynch him without question. the RNG will be determined by this post (the one you're reading right now). each post is assigned a unique id on team liquid which cannot be manipulated because of the rate of posts on TL; this makes it the perfect candidate for determining people via RNG. then from that post id i will use the following formula to determine whom is the candidate for lynch:
(sum of each individual digit in the post id [ex: 1111 = 4]) / 21 [number of players alive in game] * coefficient of the thread's stupidity
this formula will provide a number from 1 to 21, we will lynch the player it determines without hesitation or questioning. no possible explanation or reasoning could convince me that RNG lynching is in any way sub-optimal play. please bow before the RNG and watch it carry us to victory.
I don't think so given this explanation
That doesn't make sense. If you say he didn't RNG fidel, that would mean he had a reason to single out fidel. Fidel had no posts at the point where he claimed to have RNG'd him. So what would be the selection criteria? Are you saying he selected a weak player to go after or something? Your reasoning doesn't seem fluid/natural which is scummy.
Explain to me how given this formula
(sum of each individual digit in the post id [ex: 1111 = 4]) / 21 [number of players alive in game] * coefficient of the thread's stupidity
ritoky can RNG a number between 1 and 21. When the "coefficient of the thread's stupidity" would have to be a number chosen by himself as he couldn't put fucking infinity into this becouse that wouldnt give him a number between 1 and 21.
SO YES I AM SAYING HE LIED ABOUT HOW HE RNG'D OR HE SPECIFICALLY CHOSE FIDEL.
Do i have a reason why he chose fidel? No. But from what he has said i don't see how he could have rng'd him. What do you fail to understand here
Bh used the exact same algorithm or whatever in FF.
Is FF fantasy football mafia? Because this is BH's explanation of his RNG lynch.
For RNG, this post will be used for generating a random lynch. The # in the upper left corner can be right-clicked and used to access the absolute TL post # for this post. That number mod 9 is the random lynch. 1 =Oats, 2 = rayn, etc, all the way up to 8 = holyflare and 0 = sloosh.
The reason we use the absolute TL post number is that posts are constantly being made, so the number is truly random. We turn it into a number 1-14 by taking that number mod 14. What is mod? effectively, it's the remainder after division. For example. 13 mod 14 = 13. 14 mod 14 = 0. 18 mod 14 = 4. 19 mod 14 = 5. and so on.
Basically, this generates a random number 1 through 14. I am in favor of the random lynch (though am somewhat interested in a policy lynch today as well-- TL does not do this enough. I will start off by voting for the random lynched based on THIS POST.
This is not what ritoky did.
The methods you have outlined here are clearly outdated and old fashioned. We have a database that compiles statistics and choosing not to compile those statistical tendencies into your RNG formula is very poor judgment, irresponsible, and poo pooing on those who work so hard to compile said statistics. Although it is a secret formula, I will share it with you.
People are stupid when they lose, thus the coefficient of the thread's stupidity is: the inverse of the average of all players' winrates. or 1/[(sum of players winrates)/(total players)]. Plugging this value into the equation gives you 4.114, which I have rounded based on standard mathematical practices to 4.
It makes sense, it's cleaver and it fits with the overall theme of the game. Honestly this sounds a ton more likely than a scum!ritoky seeing Fidei's pregame post and deciding to push him with RNG.
The fact of the matter is rit only claimed something more than RNG after Fidei entered the game, and did so in a fashion that made himself look bad. Thus I find myself still thinking the case rit made is fairly sexy, though I do question his math a bit.
30% is generouse and I find it pretty unlikely that we have more than 5 mafia, it is possible though to have 6 if there are roles to keep thing balanced. So real chance of a RNG lynch this game to hit mafia is somewhere between 25 and 30%
To be fair I don't have any real strong scum reads atm. I think the case on Fidei outside of RNG is good. I have my own thinking telling me Damdred might be scum. Ruxx is super null with only a twinge of scum lean, mostly because I almost feel like he's hiding behind his role more than having fun with it but I can't really read ruxx for shit so idk. This one I hate myself for even thinking about + Show Spoiler +
I told ruxx he was stupid for this, but geript really has been indirectly calling himself scum. Call it a projection read.
.
Other than that I just think it's weird LT says he wants to sheep HtS and Rels is really weird so far too. It's hard to tell where the role play begins and ends which is making this a interesting challenge to read people.
For now I'm gunna sheep the RNG I guess.
##Vote: Fidei
In the middle of catching up and good lord is this a terrible post. Might switch later.
Eh Fidei's little case on VA is decent enough, as HtS pointed out I'm not sure it's accurate but the effort looks real (and is what I was hoping to see Fidei try and do when not pressured to defend himself). I'm less of a fan of him making a few efforts to point at it and see what people think without really doing much else since he posted that but, eh.
Idk I still think he's mafia because of the reasons I detailed in this post + Show Spoiler +
On August 20 2015 16:19 Fidei86 wrote: Ritoky's posts since my wot are much more like what I expect from town ritoky, fwiw.
This, plus what I said about the RNG stuff being more likely to come from town!ritoky paradying than scum!ritoky hiding and tunneling, is why I'm feel ok sheeping his case atm.
Since you are around, and because I'm wavering atm (haven't even actually voted) who would you vote today?
Who do you think is your strongest scumread atm Fidei? and why?
A predetermined meta is literally the easiest thing to stick to. Well, perhaps it's slightly harder than just lurking, but not by much. My reads were all mostly on that sort of 'superficial' level too, so I don't think it's necessarily scummy from you, but I don't think your reasoning there is particularly sound.
Let me go and read some more filters before I answer you definitively. Off the top of my head, I'd probably say Tubesock. I'll go read his filter again now.
So let me break down why I think Fidei is mafia for this post.
A predetermined meta is literally the easiest thing to stick to. Well, perhaps it's slightly harder than just lurking, but not by much.
This is true enough, but it doesn't apply to this situation. Rit opened by RNGing you, he then later makes a case on you based on your opening and keeps his RNG as a part of it. He moved beyond the RNG by making a real case.
My reads were all mostly on that sort of 'superficial' level too, so I don't think it's necessarily scummy from you, but I don't think your reasoning there is particularly sound.
This is the part that really bothers me, especially the bolded.
Fidei has made 2 Walls of Text posts, in the First he talks about how he feels the game needs to move into a "try-hard" mode and identifies himself as a try-hard.
His 2nd and Main WoT comes about midway through the day with about half of it a defense of rit's case on him and then the other half spent giving us his reads on about half the game, I think he mentions the other half in a lurker list, but I didn't bother to confirm. Clearly this is his tryhard post giving us as much as he has in the game at that point.
So for town!Fidei to go through that effort and put together those reads, only to turn around a few hours later and describe those same reads as 'superficial' makes no sense. If he doesn't really believe these reads then why go through the effort of putting them all together and make them look good?
Clearly he knows his reads were bad, just the same as he knows he failed to read the thread at times and agreed people were justified in scum reading him for that.
It's also pretty clear that he doesn't believe his own scum reads. He listed Rels, Rit, myself and Tube as scum in that big WoT post but he seems to have flipped us all to town for fairly weak reasons. Actually I'm not sure where his stance is on Rels but he certaintly seems to be talking to rels like he thinks he's town. In fact he's been talking about all 4 of us like we are town.
On August 20 2015 16:46 Tubesock wrote: Hypocrisy is delicious.
So, you top scum me because you've never played with me and don't have any "hopes" shall we say of me being more town. Over KelsierSC who is nailing Batsnacks' can't give a fuck attitude. You are saying that Kels usually doesn't do shit, but gets NK'd so he must be good? Is that what I read?
I'm not saying it makes sense that he keeps getting NK'd, I'm just saying that is what has happened in previous games. And this isn't Kelsier being bat - from what I've seen its what he does every game.
And as to scumming you - that was my read at the time. I need to update it now but I've been stuck in this dialogue with TT. I will obviously update my reads. But I don't see that I should just refuse to give a read because I haven't played with you before? And if I caveated every read with "but I haven't played with him before" that would be tedious. And I don't need to if I'm not basing the read on meta.
On August 20 2015 17:50 Rels wrote: now that I explained why your tubesock's townread is stupid, do you reconsider ?
I hadn't thought about things like that before. You're right that town reads are easy to give out as mafia. In a way, it would make sense that nervous mafia would town read people who seem to be posting in a town manner (which would explain why our reads align), and his push on me without scum reading anyone else (or really even considering anyone else, for that matter) isn't exactly massively towny. So yeah, I guess.
Since you're online, I might as well ask - you've been pretty quiet up until now. What do you think about the push on me more generally (that you now seem to have joined)?
He did give some reasons to his read change on me, but really it was just because I called out that his original reasons had never even happened.
On August 20 2015 16:14 Fidei86 wrote: @TT fair enough re HTS. Just checked again. I think my notes were referring to your post on Ruxx's meta reads which I actually didn't give enough credit for. It was low hanging fruit for sure, but it was probably worth saying.
You said Rit's case "made your dick hard". Okay, so agreeing doesn't necessarily mean you were going to vote that way- perhaps I was using the term "sheeping" too loosely.
My point on your interactions with Damdred stands. You were in HG with me, right? Do you remember how pissed I was with Onegu all game for being useless, and how I kept saying we should lynch him not because he was scum, but because it would be impossible to read him through the shit he was saying? I sort of feel the same way about Damdred here. Insofar as your post is an attempt to draw Damdred out, then I can see that's actually helpful. I didn't read it that way at first because what can you really read into his rambling so far, but you could have been pandering to his role play.
I guess that means I'll move you back to null.
TLDR: Fidei is mafia for making a try-hard wall of text style post with tons of reads, then later calling those reads "superficial" and it seems clear that he never believed his own scum reads
I might be willing to consolidate elsewhere, but I'd like to have better reasons than just them lurking.
Also if someone cares to detail out why they think Fidei is town I'll listen. Some of his defense was decent, but kinda like Tube said enough of it was weird and didn't add up to sway me.
On August 21 2015 03:36 Tubesock wrote: Granted, Chezinu hasn't done much. What do you think of how he went after Damdred or Ritoky? I liked it felt towny to me. His downsides are that he isn't continuing it, and other than knowing his 4 current townreads, no one knows if he still scums Damdred or Ritoky. How does that outweigh 2 others who are doing some majorly weird shit?
I wouldn't really say he was "going after" Damdred. More like he brought up his name once in passing. For ritoky, he went after the rng push at an early point in the game. That's fine as an opening discussion point I suppose, but nothing I'd give him town credit for. It's not like mafia can't talk about that just as easily.
On August 19 2015 08:40 Chezinu wrote: Trying to find scum would be a better option.
On August 19 2015 08:40 Chezinu wrote: Why don't you try finding scum? It's more the part that you are not trying to find scum and are just bantering away like a mofo
He goes on to chastise people for not scumhunting and then when he returns to the thread he posts a list of town reads and says he is going to sheep one of them, essentially failing to do what he questions others about.
On August 21 2015 04:00 geript wrote: Regardless, KSC is playing to the cap of his ability currently which is to say none at all. So losing him or yamato would be no real loss if they had rolled town.
Unfortunately my experience here has shown that often times players who just don't give a shit are just as often town as they are mafia. Also I know there are a few players who despise D1 due to the high troll factor and lack of information to go off of.
As such I'd prefer to lynch someone who I have some reason to think is scum based on their posts D1, I do agree we have to deal with lurkers before lylo though. I think night actions like Vig shots and cop checks are more the way to go with players like that.
Meh, I'm fairly terrible at this so maybe I'm not the person to listen to, just my 2 cents.
EPT
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