EPTSorry don't have time to actually play till like mid July.
Newbie Student Mafia XII
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Sorry don't have time to actually play till like mid July. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
new player - played in 3 or fewer previous TL mafia games. That means if this would be your 4th game, you are eligible This is fine, it is really clear if you read it carefully. I think your brain sees 3 and it likes to make that assumption that 3 is the important number, but the way the text reads makes total sense. Especially with the word "previous" clarifying that it is mafia games PRIOR to this one that you are counting. That means if this would be your 4th game, you are eligible effectively reads the same as That means if this would be your 4th game, you are still eligible So both ways of saying it are fine. It's a clarification of the first point anyways which imo doesn't even need to be there. My Point? WonnaPlay is arguing semantics, and is clearly mafia. ##VOTE: WonnaPlay WIFOM + Show Spoiler + Or am I mafia for pushing on his arguing of semantics? + Show Spoiler + We'll never know... I'm not playing this game! | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 01 2015 02:14 GlowingBear wrote: It could be better written, though. I think that's what the Dutch guy is trying to say As a native English speaker I think it is written very clearly and is fine. I can't comment as to how it might read to a non-native english speaker though. I'm not seeing what the confusion is though... If I've played 0 games before and sign up for this one, this would be my 1st game. If I've played 1 games before and sign up for this one, this would be my 2nd game. If I've played 2 games before and sign up for this one, this would be my 3rd game. If I've played 3 games before and sign up for this one, this would be my 4th game. In all those situations I am considered a newbie because I've played 3 or fewer games prior to this one. Anyways, this horse is already pretty beaten so I'll leave it at that. | ||
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Tictock
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I'm going to be a little touch and go with posting untill sometime late tomorow. I'm still on Holiday, but right at the end of it. I'll need to reread things now that I'm official part of the game, but I think HtS and n00b are pretty much for sure town for how D1 played out. MD is also very likely town, but his posting sucks. I'll be back a little later to share some scum reads. | ||
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Tictock
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On July 12 2015 01:02 scott31337 wrote: Good Morning... Let me wake up a bit more and re-read, but I don't see a whole lot to go on so far that sticks out at me - except a slight town lean on Fidei. This is literally scotts only post, and it is wierd that he would say he needs to reread anything on the 3rd page of the game. I'm used to town!scott being more involved, so I'm thinking he rolled scum this game. | ||
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Tictock
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On July 12 2015 06:22 Grokken wrote: I figure it's time for me to make an actual post now that the thread is getting more active. Sulfurus: Has made a few posts, but only one-liners and contentless posts. I know you are here and reading the thread, why not try to post something more useful? Neutral read so far, maybe slight scumlean. WonnaPlay: Should post so we know you're still alive. n00bKing I was just about to say that you haven't said anything of substance, but then I refresh the thread and there you are! You made some good points and seem to come to similar conclusions as I do, slight townread. Fidei86: I checked the Himalayas thread, and it's true that there was a huge volume of posts. It seems reasonable to me that he wants to avoid spam in this game. Post makes sense to me, good advice for new players too I think he seems towny overall, posts a decent amount and keeps the thread active without spamming nonsense. Doesn't seem afraid to post what he thinks. silentwarrior: silentwarrior is living up to his name, as someone said earlier. NydusHerMain: Only real post is a random vote for Fidei. Seems inactive for now, lets wait until he gets back. MoosyDoosy: Has made some good posts in my opinion. In particular I agree with the following post: I was going to bring this up myself, but seems like you beat me to it. Although the defense is good, I think it would be better to just let me defend myself, especially because I haven't really posted much before now. MoosyDoosy is a townread for me. TJHuggins: Seems like town to me. He identifies me as someone who has no clue what to post, which is pretty accurate considering this is my first online mafia game (my only previous experience is some IRL mafia just before I signed up for this one). I think it makes sense as town to pressure inexperienced players, and try to make them slip up while defending themselves. Grokken: Thats me. Open Slots: scott31337: Seems to be lurking, no real contribution so far. Half the Sky: Seems like town to me. She (?) has made quite a few posts, with a lot of content and some good points. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is that she defended me for seemingly no reason. GhandiEAGLE: He says that there isn't much to go by day 1. He hasn't really contributed too much, but the posts he has made feels slightly towny to me. He made a point to flush out the lurkers, which seems like a good idea. KelsierSC spamspamspamspamspamspamspam, don't know what to think. In conclusion, I think we should try to lynch one of the people who is keeping up with the thread, but aren't making useful contributions. These people are in my opinion more likely to be mafia rather than the people who aren't saying anything at all. At this point, these people are Sulfurus, scott31337 and KelsierSC. This is the first time I make a post like this one, sorry if the formatting is bad. While this list post seemed to be early to the party, I think its overall not that bad. The reasons for Grok's reads are decent for how little had occured at that point in the game. Between this and one of his earlier posts that seemed casual and jokey I'm comfterable adding him to my town reads. Oh also I doubt he would make a list post like this that calls out Sulf so early if he were mafia. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Going out for dinner now, will get back to this later when I am able. | ||
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On July 12 2015 23:33 TJHuggins wrote: Right now I'm at the point where I feel comfortable enough to ##vote MoosyDoosy. (reasons here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=10#191) I woke up this morning to see more posts from MD that read scum to me. I didn't think you were even allowed to vote for yourself. To me I haven't seen any protown content coming out of any of his posts, and his recent ones seem blatantly anti-town. And what really stands with me is that these are posts from someone who claims to apparently have been unanimously townread by all players but one in some recent previous forum mafia game. See his post on July 11 2015 at 16:30, ("I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting.") I'm not buying it that this is a result of you switching up your play. So this was an interesting post to me. TJ had made one postregarding MD before where he scum read him, but decideds to vote him here. Nothing in his read had changed but now MD has votes on him which seems to make TJ more comfterable voting on him. This along with other posts suggest to me that TJ is pushing an agenda over hunting for scum. I know HtS also made a case on him that I liked, but I need to reread it before I comment on her case. I'm torn about TJ's EoD reaction. On the one hand I dont think scum would post like that In game over in their QT, but on the other hand I don't see town getting so worked up over that host mistake when it meant we lynched scum. The mistake had been discussed a fair bit as well (that MD cannot vote for himself) so it should not have been a suprise, yet he seemed genuinely upset that MD's vote on himself was not counted. In addition TJ's reaction to that EoD seemed a lot like Sulf's reaction which raises some flags. So, yea TJ is my top scum read atm. | ||
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Tictock
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On July 13 2015 06:31 TJHuggins wrote: Figured I would post where I am at before EOD (for obvious reasons). Here's a scum list for me right now in order: 1. MoosyDoosy 2. Sulfuras 3. Grokken Scott, NHM, and silentwarrior are all in a 3rd category for me which includes players that haven't impressed me with their content and have not left any last impact on me. Might be mafia, might be town. I would rather wait until day 2 to deal with this group since it may give them more time to provide content for me to figure out their alignment. Personally, I'd rather kill someone whos acting scummy than someone whos just a crap shoot (actually if this were video mafia I would pressure them and force them to talk but I can't really do that here.) If at EOD 2 I still have nothing on those three, I would advocate to shooting, cop checking, lynching them. I would caution against vig shooting or cop checking any of the lurkers this night because I don't think it will really help progress our scum leads much. A vig shot is better saved on a clearly scummy person (same logic as above) and cop check better on someone whos a bit more active. This post caught my eye as well. TJ spent at least one whole post saying why he felt MD and Grok were scum, yet suddenly Sulf just shows up 2nd in his list here, and gives no explanation for it. This was after n00b and HtS started pushing Sulf as another possible lynch. Btw, thats why I'm reading HtS and n00b as town since there is no chance they were bussing a teammate in that situation. I'm reluctant to fully read Fidei as town right now... Like TJ, Fidei seemed to be ignoring Sulf up till this time in the game. However fidei was all too happy to jump on that wagon ... So he still gets a solid town lean. | ||
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Tictock
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Kinda jumping in so wanted to get myself on some better footing with reads right off the bat, but always nice to see familiar faces... Er nametags? @ HtS I am currently in Geneva, but tonight is my last night here. Will be boarding a flight tomorrow morning back to the States. I'm visiting my dad who moved out here a few years ago ( he works for the WMO), and did a crazy trip over the past week. We've been here in Geneva, Germany, and also Poland. Technically France as well but only for a short bit today. | ||
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On July 14 2015 02:48 n00bKing wrote: Yeah, I made the same comment, about it being strange for him to say he needs to "re-read" when we had only just started. Scott COULD be scum here, but man...just how much "mailing it in" can we expect from one scum team? Sulf had like 5 posts, and Scott has 1? That's their gameplan? Still think "Neutral read so far, maybe slight scumlean" is not much of a call-out. But I wouldn't push for a vigilante shot on Grokken or anything. So there will be more time to evaluate him. (Though I may not be around for that, since I've been killed on Night 1 in 100% of my TL Mafia games! And Fidei requesting that HtS receive protection clears the way for my demise!) You are correct it is not much of a call out, however Sulf was the first person he listed as his scumreads. I just dont see scum making a list post that early that lists a teammate so highly on the list. I might be giving him too much credit for that, but its stronger than a meta or tone read imo. | ||
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Tictock
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On July 14 2015 03:52 scott31337 wrote: FINAL VOTE COUNT Sulfurus(4):Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, Noobking MoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy I mean I have to believe everyone on Sulf is town - with HtS at the top. I'm going to re-read every one on Moosy. TT replaced NHM. Welcome ol' buddy  This is probably very solid. Very unlikely that mafia buss their teammate in this situation when MD is another option. The only situation where things get tricky is if MD is in fact mafia as well here... Seems unlikely to me, but also means MD is an ok Cop check. | ||
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Tictock
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Looks like a medic dodge to me for sure. Don't recall KSC having very solid reads on anyone. | ||
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On July 14 2015 07:13 Half the Sky wrote: Very nice. I hope you enjoyed your holiday! Sounds like a blast. Speaking of life on the road, I'm headed to Munich for work in about 3 weeks time after a trip to the States (specifically NYC) starting Friday for 3 weeks (again for work) so I'm headed for a very interesting road trip myself. Very cool, I have not had the chance to visit NYC myself, but that should be a fun trip. Hopefully its not all work and you get some time to Play! (No I'm not talking about Mafia :p ) If you are ever in Colorado feel free to drop me a PM. | ||
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Tictock
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##Vote: TJHuggins I've already made a few posts explaining my read on him and HtS also made a semi case. I'm not sure who the other scum might be but my gut tells me it's not Grok (also I have a town read on Grok) and is one of the non-voters. Just not sure who yet. I will be back home before the end of D2 so fear not, I shall return. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 14 2015 08:45 GhandiEAGLE wrote: 9) HtS Untouchable right now. No fun there :< This is such a weird way to say you think HtS is town... As others have pointed out that whole reads post seems really off as well. A lot of your reads seem to move in one direction but you conclude the opposite. Nothing is well explained either. Like your Fidei read, hes voting for you and that makes him town? That makes little sense, if Ghandi is town then Fidei voting for him should make Ghandi worried that Fidei could be mafia not convince him he is town. Also that lie/mistake about TJ feels really wierd too, Fidei might very well be onto something there. | ||
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On July 14 2015 10:37 scott31337 wrote: Why is MD a cop check? Please explain more from your reasoning. My reasoning was in the post you quoted. MD is playing the role of easy lynchbait, which is why I am leaning town on him. His posts make little sense for scum, at least to me. He was clearly being scum read by a lot of people however, and the only way we don't get a lot of confirmed town off the D1 votes is if MD is in fact mafia here. Thus I was saying MD was an ok Cop check for those reasons. Since I posted that so close to the start of D2 I guess it was more of a "I can see why someone might Cop check MD" than " Someone should cop check MD" Just in case we do have a Cop and before this discussion is brought up, there is no reason to claim just yet. It is better to hold off any claims till it benefits town more. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Since this is a newbie game the scum team has a coach to help them make better choices. Thus a seemingly well thought out NK does not for sure mean there is a veteran player on the scum team, it could easily just mean they have a solid coach. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 14 2015 15:12 GhandiEAGLE wrote: I'm still not voting for TJ yet because Fidei is hardly the most pressing case when you look at some of the other people in the game right now, and I didn't think the bandwagon needed more momentum. Yea... You're scum. Fidei should have nothing to do with voting for TJ, you are the only person to be trying to make an association between the two. In my mind Fidei pushing on people other than TJ is great for town since there are still 2 scum left and there was no clear associations between Sulf and anyone. Pre-flip associations like this are terrible for town and likely scum modivated to push mislynches. @ Fidei Sorry you feel like I'm misrepresenting you, I suppose I should have typed pushing instead of voting. Doesn't seem like a big difference to me though since it was pretty clear where your head was at in regards to Ghandi. Still, given our last game together I would find it odd if you weren't weary of me. So more town points for you. | ||
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Tictock
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After this hour I will be in the air for about 10 hours, but I'll be checking in and whatnot when I arrive home tonight. I should be around for EoD as well assuming I'm not completely messed up by timezone stuff. | ||
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Tictock
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MD and Scott fall into somewhat null territory but with slight townreads. Scott made that one post where he put everyone on the Sulf wagon as town. Scum need to get town to lynch town, so listing that many people as town seems like a bad move for scum to make. Its not strong, but its enough for me to lean a little more town on Scott. I need to filter dive SW as I have no idea about him yet, probably wont get a chance till after I get home though. My town circle is the 3 remaining people who voted for Sulf. Probably never going to lynch these people: HtS n00b Fidei I'm still reading Grok as town also, but it isn't nearly as strong as the other 3. Hope I didnt forget anyone. | ||
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Hopefully there are some decent movies on the flight. On the way out here I watched the entire Hobbit trilogy, was kinda nice to see all 3 movies in one sitting. | ||
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Pretty silly to lynch him when we both agree there are better targets. I'm reading him a little more town atm, but honestly the only game I played with him and he was Scum he dissapeared halfway through D1 due to loosing his internet. We got a bit lucky in policy lynching him D1 that game and I can't say I know his scum meta at all based on that. Right now I'm fine giving him more time to pick his game up here. I assume he bit off more than he expected joining the Gaiden game, which was doing something like 100pages per day phase last I checked. So I can understand his weak posting here. | ||
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On July 14 2015 19:21 Fidei86 wrote: You can buy adaptors in terminal 2, so I'm sure you can dig them out in terminal 1 if you look hard enough... And pay Airport prices for Electronics? No thanks. Currently posting on an iPad which has several games on it plus I have a book I have yet to crack open, I also am smuggling a large quantity of swiss chocolate, so if it comes to it I can break into that and ride the chocolate high all the way home :p | ||
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On July 14 2015 19:28 Fidei86 wrote: That's fair enough, I suppose. I also don't think he's been very active in Gaiden, so he might have some RL issues going on. It doesn't exonerate him by any stretch, and I would still policy lynch him, but you've talked me down from actively pushing it for now. I stopped following Gaiden when I saw I was more than 150 pages behind, lol. So no comment regarding scotts posting there. Given that HtS was roleblocked and there was no 2nd kill N1 I'm thinking we are in a Doc/Cop setup. So scott would be a solid Cop check if I'm right about that. The roleblock not being stacked with NK should mean there is no veteren. However, Setup speculation is pretty WIFOM however so prob best to not go down that thinking too far. HtS can attest that my setup/role speculation has been very poor in the past as well, lol. | ||
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On July 15 2015 03:00 Half the Sky wrote: Yeh sorry.....I'm working until 2200. I'm getting hosed this week prior to flying out to NYC. But I will put aside some time to post. Largely the TLDR version is that Ghandi looks significantly worse, Scott needs to fill in the gaps with his scumreads, his fear read on me is normal considering that he was on a scumteam where I (more or less) carried, and TJH is still poor, Grokken is slightly better, just skimming I need to get a firmer read on SW, WP and Tictock, the last of whom is concerning from a fear read (read: Holy Guardians) standpoint. The real question for me is whether I want to lynch TJH or Ghandi. WP seems okay for a newbie though. SW is the one I had a prior concern on. I observed that game and I want to cross compare points from that game, but from what I recall, the big problem was that you had milo who was guilty of TMI, Chocolate and Templar were too easy to lynch because they WERE pretty scummy and then Damdred and VE were both playing suboptimally and Scott was also easily mislynched. So basically in this game the way to prevent that with any potential player is if the town stays cohesive it will be harder for scum to hide. There was a Dutch newbie who was playing pretty well enough to not get MLed (in fact he got NKed N2 which was weird in of itself) and ritoky was also doing well but those two were offed pretty quickly. In a game where town plays suboptimally it will be much harder, based on meta you have to find out whether a player really believes someone is scum or is just trying to push an easy mislynch. Right now there aren't many standing out from the crowd so I'm thinking at this point in time Tic would be an easy read. If there's something you recall from HG that jumps out to you regarding Tictock shout. I do need to look at him in detail. Aww, it's oddly good to hear you have a fear read on me due to the HG game. You earlier stated you thought I'd be an easy read since you coached me in the game before HG. 2 things. First town has a huge leg up from where HG started. In that game town managed to Mislynch their only blue role and then had to go forward without any assistance from role info. Second, you guys managed to catch Sulf as the GF D1 this game. Which not only means town is in a solid place but if there is a Cop we can trust their checks. Past that you get no help from me on how to read my meta ^.^ To be honest I'm not sure I know myself. | ||
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On July 15 2015 08:50 n00bKing wrote: I don't know, but I wanna find out! ##Vote: TJHuggins Would love to see some more votes on TJ, just to push him into carrying through with posting his "essential information." Heh, I was thinking the exact opposite right now n00b... Was wondering if the votes shifted off TJ if he would follow up on that or not. Since you just put reminded everyone of that post I'll leave my vote on TJ with ya to push for that info as well. As I mentioned earlier I'm also totally ok with the Ghandi lynch as well. Ghandi's last post pushing Grok didn't do much to change my read on him. | ||
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On July 15 2015 08:55 silentwarrior wrote: I didn't solo vote at the time i voted, noobking changed his vote. But I don't understand, what so bad with solovoting? The issue with solo voting is that it makes it harder to look at vote counts after a flip. Ideally you want 2 solid wagons so that when you hit on scum you can start to figuer out which players on the opposing wagon are likely scum and which, if any, are scum bussing a teammate. I'm pretty guilty of throwing my vote out solo in past newbie games, so I understand the temptation to ignore the majority and vote for your own reads. However if you think about it all it really does it make it easier for scum to swing the votes in their favor. Maybe HtS can answer a little better, also I'm sure there is someplace on the interwebs that has in depth talk about what is good for voteing patterns as town. My counter question to get you thinking about it more, what do you think could be good about solovoting? | ||
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Tictock
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On July 15 2015 04:29 Half the Sky wrote: I think the lynch today should be either of TJH or Ghandi. Percentage play it might be safer to lynch Ghandi based on his tentative read on TJH and then if the flip holds true then go after TJH unless there is stronger evidence for another player based on the flip - I know Grokken is saying Scott is liable and I'll comment on that shortly but you have to also connect Scott's filter to Ghandi's to also make that association. (This does not make Grokken mafia btw) But unless there is an overriding reason you always side with percentage play analysis and Sulfurus didn't leave too much behind post-lynch. Whether you believe Scott or TJH is the final mafia you have to go with percentage play. ##unvote ##vote GhandiEAGLE I overall agree with your post here (as with most of your posts this game) HtS. However I'm wondering if you could explain what you mean by percentage play here. | ||
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On July 15 2015 05:24 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Right now, I'm still thinking Grokken is the scummiest. Main reason is right here Acting defensively is something a lot of people would do when suddenly accused of being mafia; to me it's not really good proof unless the person is doing it an extreme amount, which I wasn't. Bringing something new to the table isn't something you did either in this post, so unless you're calling yourself scum, rehashing what other people have said isn't really a good reason to suspect (necessarily). Thirdly, I said that I didn't want to lynch Moosy until Day 3. The reason I voted for him was to get him talking more and getting him into the game. But disagreeing with your points isn't what's scummy to me. What's scummy is that you jumped on the first bandwagon that had nothing to do with supposedly likely scum, TJ. You issued a short, uninformative paragraph, and then immediately voted for me before even the original accuser, Fidei, did. To me this just seems like opportunistic play that would side yourself with a clear town, give you little to no culpability when I turn up town after a lynch, and still allow you to have a time in your filter where you seemed proactive in a town role, so as to be another defense later. That seems scummy to me. Additionally, you held a vote on Moosy. You said it was because you weren't present at the final vote, but I have no reason to believe this. A lot of other people can be held to this too, so you're not alone here; however, it doesn't help you. I'm more or less in the dark about who the scummers are, but as far as my reads go you're the scummiest. Also it's pretty safe to say attempting to get Moosy to participate didn't work out at all. Meh. ##Vote: Grokken This is a pretty bad post imo, and the reasons to vote for Grok are flimsy at best. Acting defensively is something a lot of people would do when suddenly accused of being mafia That is about the only statement that I totally agree with. Town can, and should, defend themselves against a push just as much as Scum will want to. Bringing something new to the table isn't something you did either in this post, so unless you're calling yourself scum, rehashing what other people have said isn't really a good reason to suspect (necessarily). This seems to be Ghandi's main point, but the bolded part really only seems to be included to open up his next point. Otherwise he doesn't back up when he thinks rehashing is a scum tell. What's scummy is that you jumped on the first bandwagon that had nothing to do with supposedly likely scum, TJ. You issued a short, uninformative paragraph, and then immediately voted for me before even the original accuser, Fidei, did. So in one paragraph Ganhdi says that rehashing other peoples points isn't a good way to scum read people, then goes ahead and makes Grok's sheep on Fedei his main reason for this scum read. Whats the differentiating factor here? When is it ok and when is is scummy? Also the part I bolded here is funny wording. Ghandi isn't saying that Grok is voting according to his own reads (which would be a scum tell) but that Grok not voting with what is the thread sentiment is scummy. That makes little sense to me. It also is worded in such a way to suggest Ghandi doesn't really think that TJ is scum, yet in his last posts mentioning TJ he seemed to be scumreading him. The last paragraph about Grok voting for MD D1 is meh. First off we we don't know MD's alignment yet so the people voting for him are not at all scummy for doing so, it really should be if Grok's vote matches up with his EoD reads not just who he voted for, especially when we don't know the alignment of who he voted for (in this case MD). I'm more or less in the dark about who the scummers are, but as far as my reads go you're the scummiest. I will give Ghandi credit that Grok was his top scum read in his last reads post here. However saying that Grok is the scummiest player atm and that he has no other scum reads right now just continues to scream mafia to me. This whole post honestly reads to me like a forced read to "bring something new to the table". | ||
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What is it that is making you think TJ might be town? Also, in regards to this statement rehashing what other people have said isn't really a good reason to suspect (necessarily) Whats the "necessarily"? When do you think it is ok for people to rehash what others say and when isn't it? I realize in my last post I was possibly over simplifying by assuming rehashing what others say is more or less the same as sheeping someone. | ||
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Like HtS pointed out I'm not happy that Scott posted this On July 15 2015 07:18 scott31337 wrote: Yayy I'm dead in the other game so I can concentrate on this one now - I'll do some buttkicking tonight after house cleaning. Only to follow up with a no explanation vote on TJ... That definitely is worthy of a scum read right there. Still think I'd rather deal with Scott tomorrow since there are more active scummy looking players right now. Also TJ has effectively disappeared from the game... This has got to be the lowest activity game I've seen, It's kinda sickening. I would really like to hear from TJ before EoD, but I'm equally tempted to swing the hammer back over to GE atm... Still the way GE has semi-defended TJ and tried to shift votes away from him all day has me fairly certain they are the scum team so I don't really care which gets lynched atm. Also thanks for trying to explain there HtS, not sure I fully get it after one read though. I think I get the general idea so I'll just mull it over a little and see if it doesn't make more sense to me later on. | ||
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Will make for some great VCA later on. | ||
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I feel like things are boreing atm. Lets make them less boring. ##Unvote ##Vote: scott31337 | ||
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1 Hour to go and still no sign of TJ... Are we all happy with the choices we have made today? Also... that mind-meld from Hts and n00b. Exactly my thoughts on GE's post there so I'm thankful for not having to articulate them ^.^ | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote: GhandiEagle | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
GE you said it yourself that you were being scum read for playing badly, so you should have fought more to explain to us your reads and try harder to prove you are town. Not just semi-roll over and make one post pushing your scum read. You never bothered to respond to why we didn't like your case on Grok, you never answered the questions I posted to you, and the point you made about your scott read was weak for the reasons HtS and n00b pointed out. TJ is in no way off the hook, and now Scott looks much worse and needs to really step it up if he is town. I kinda get what WP was saying about swapping off TJ to GE, it was kinda my thinking as well. Still you guys probably shouldn't just write off our vote switches. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
MD we need to start hearing about your reads man. You've been a terrible & unhelpful all game long and now it looks like you setup a last minuet vote switch to GE. Actually MD is probably the best lynch tomorrow if he does not explain himself in solid detail. I would never bring him into MyLo or LyLo with the way he's been playing. Scott is in that same boat, so between the 2 of them. TJ at least had decent content D1. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 16 2015 07:13 Half the Sky wrote: Scott could have tried to distance himself from that vote given that a lot of people were scumreading him. He is experienced enough to know this. But it's realllllyyyy wifomy though and extremely high risk (assuming TJH is scum) given that scum are already down a player and he wouldn't stand a chance if he was the last scummer. I think Scott is actually LESS likely to be scum here from a VCA standpoint. He could be, yes, but less likely. Of course if TJH is town then Scott looks significantly worse. Ehh, I see where you are coming from here, but to me Scott looks worse than TJ right now. He has made several promises to us to give us more , and has failed to do so. The only decent posts he made where the ones where he was talking about D1 VCA stuff, which I think WP or n00b pointed out was an easy post to make as that was the general sentiment at the time. What do you think about MD now HtS? | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 16 2015 07:18 Half the Sky wrote: Wrong, WonnaPlay hammered. What do you mean by MD set him up? Ninjavoting is shite though. But in your world, if MD is scum, it means he set up his own teammate Sulfurus to be lynched d1. Do you think he was faking his breadcrumbs and Sulfurus wanted to bus him d1? Why would a scum player purposely act scummy (referring to MD here)? If MD and Sulfurus were scum, why would Sulfurus slip like he did d1? He could have just said nothing. And TJ had content but some of it was questionable. I never said any of the bolded line, think you misread something. Well MD effectily wasted his vote D1 and now D2 ninja voted (and not in the voting thread mind you...) onto someone who confirmed town. ... ehh Thinking back on D1 your right Sulf did make that post where he basically said he didn't care if MD got lynched. I also get what you mean by his play, but that doesn't mean we should accept him continuing that level of play. Still my point was that MD needs to start giving some real reads, because I'm not comfortable bringing him into late game with what we've seen from him thus far. I suppose we still have plenty of time before that's an issue though. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 16 2015 07:30 Half the Sky wrote: TJHuggins - afked without voting. Could be tactical since he did acknowledge that people could get away with one no-vote at EoD1 I'm also remembering that you made a big post early on in D2 about how it was bad to make policy lynches D2. Kinda leads into your point, but I'm also not sure if that makes him more or less likely to be scum here. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 16 2015 07:39 Half the Sky wrote: DT, if any should check any of SW, Grokken, WP or Scott. If the vig did not shoot N1, I would shoot either Scott or TJH. Going to think harder. I support this post. I would personally check either Grok or Scott myself. If we have a Vigi they should absolutely shoot tonight. I feel like it was silly to hold the shot N1, but maybe not that bad. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Are you saying Onegu made a mistake in this post? On July 16 2015 07:00 Onegu wrote: Day 2 Final Vote Count GhandiEAGLE(7): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay ,Ticktock, MoosyDoosy TJHuggins(2): Noobking, scott31337 Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE Not Voting(1): , TJHuggins Reminder Voting is done here. It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread. Currently GhandiEAGLE is set to be lynched with 7 votes. Day 1 ends in PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE. If so you need to PM him or something to fix that. I did check Voting thread and you never did change your vote there. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 16 2015 08:23 MoosyDoosy wrote: If you die where does that leave us? I would like it if you could post it now for me and HtS to dissect. TJ might be a good person for Medic to visit tonight... Just sayin. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Mostly took home swishh Chocolate though... | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 16 2015 08:48 MoosyDoosy wrote: So...how do people like active townie Moosy? I'll tell you when I see him. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Scott > Grok > SW I suppose I wouldn't be too upset if I get Vigi shot, but I'd be expecting decent reasons as to why post-game. Also I can promise some better stuff next phase since I wont be catching up or traveling. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I had a townlean on you based off your first list post D1. Upon reading your filter I found nothing else supporting that read and there have been some decent points brought up against you. While it is ideal if the Vigi is able to find and shoot scum it is also valid for a Vigi to shoot hard to read players or people who are under suspicion. The idea is to make the game easier for town the following day by either shooting scum or shooting bad town so the rest of Town can focus on the real scum. Basically you've fallen to a null read for me. I considered MD for that list as well, but HtS reminded me that Sulf spewed him town and he's been trying a bit harder tonight. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 16 2015 14:23 Half the Sky wrote: Detective: 1) Grokken, 2) SW, 3) Tictock, 4) TJHiggins Caveat: I would NOT check Scott if you think there's a vig in this setup - he should be getting shot, so consider any of Grokken, Tictock, SW or if you are unsure of WP, then him, but I am thinking WP might be green here. A check on Scott should have been done d1 and if you haven't done it now you may want to exercise caution if the vig held his shot, which could happen in a newbie game. The bolded line is the only part of your wall of text I do not agree with, but only because it is not possible to have both Cop and Vig. A) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Doctor, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon B) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Veteran, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon C) 1 Town Vigilante, 1 Town Doctor, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon D) 1 Town Vigilante, 1 Town Veteran, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon Also I'm voting for HtS for Towny of the Game. She is both the obvious Scum kill and the obvious Medic save.  | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 16 2015 14:49 n00bKing wrote: You'll note that the TJHuggins/silentwarrior team and the TJHuggins/Ticktock team have a common thread... You really think I replace in as scum, bus my remaining teammate most of D2 only to swap to the mislynch in the last 30 min, and then suggest a medic save on my scummate? This makes me unable to trust any of your associations... | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Looks like I'll be doing a fair bit of defending D3 here, assuming of course that a Vigi who held there shot doesn't decide to shoot me off that wall of text. That would be the quick and dirty way to prove my innocence here... @n00b While some of your points are valid, I find a lot of them to be deeply imbedded in WIFOM. Overall I like the effort you are making, but I'm wondering if your a tad tunneled in your thinking. I assume if I flip green you just swap to pushing TJ/SW as the scum team. What happens if you find that TJ flips green? Just humor that world, if even for a moment. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
However for now I just want to make 2 points. 1) I still think HtS has the best list post for suggestions for Night Actions. If you trust nobody else, please trust her. Nightaction Recommendations Detective: 1) Grokken, 2) SW, 3) Tictock, 4) TJHiggins Caveat: I would NOT check Scott if you think there's a vig in this setup - he should be getting shot, so consider any of Grokken, Tictock, SW or if you are unsure of WP, then him, but I am thinking WP might be green here. A check on Scott should have been done d1 and if you haven't done it now you may want to exercise caution if the vig held his shot, which could happen in a newbie game. Vigilante: Scott, Scott, Scott. Vig a scummy lurker who is least likely to help town (if he's town) By far, this person would be Scott. Shoot Scott. No, you should have done that yesterday  Medic: I would say any of the trio of Fidei, n00bking, or myself. Use your judgement. I threw out some thoughts that I found interesting, but that I honestly don't care to explain right now. Deal with it. 2) In general defense of myself, I'd just like to point to my last game where I pulled off a win for the Mafia team. Holy Guardians Here I played as Mafia and managed to pull out the win by making myself look as towny as I could. We won that game through incedible towncred and pushing the idea that remaining 2 players in question were in fact the scumteam. Yet here I am being accused of replacing into a game, into a slot that was largely afk and was suspected by all people, and then acting in all sorts of manners that make me look like scum. Then I'm being scum read for that. Why would I as Scum bus my remaining scummate right off the bat? Why would I risk that move by moving my vote around so much EoD, and then nudging back my scum read on TJ? Like it's obvious that TJ is still one of the scummier players right now, so isn't my receding my read and even risking saying he might be a good medic save suicide as scum? Unless you think I planned out my play for the entirety of the past cycle just to make this argument, I don't see how my actions this game can possible make sense from a scum perspective. Just my 2 cents. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
A quick browse of your one page filter shows me that this is your initial read on TJ On July 13 2015 08:25 silentwarrior wrote: I also lean town on TJHuggins, since he posted that sulfurus was his second on scum list. This was also before any of the voting began, though after sulfurus posted that super scummy post and was tagged for it by Half the sky. Still a good townlean for me. Then on D2 when TJ is being pushed by most of the thread you post this. On July 15 2015 04:35 silentwarrior wrote: Scumlean: scott31337 TJHuggins Probably scum: GhandiEAGLE You never mentioned TJ in between those 2 posts. What changed your read? I also noted that your Day 1 Vote was super weak. You afk voted on NHM based on your entrance posts... On July 12 2015 08:23 silentwarrior wrote: Hey guys, sorry for being late. So I just read trough the thread and here are some of my thoughts now. First, fidei seems like a town read to me right now. He seems to genuienly want to create an enviroment that is good for town. His first post makes this obvious. Have to disagree on his stance however. Imo, most games suffer from people not saying enough than the opposite. My background is pretty newbie. Have been in a few forum mafia games, but mostly i play IRL. On July 12 2015 08:33 silentwarrior wrote: Ok, so my first scumread when reading was NydusHerMain. First it was that she voted for fidei, for a post which i feel was very towny. She then didn't explain herself, and hasn't posted anything since that. I will be interested to hear what she says about that when she returns. I also found some of what moosy said suspicous, but most of that has already been said by noobking, The most scummy thing to me was that he said he wanted to change his play, then wondered how someone could read that as. If you are town one game and then make a point to say that you change your play, then logically you will play as mafia. Which looks really bad. You basically took one look at the game, made your vote then never reevaluated. You even setup your vote by opening with a weak townread on Fidei then attack someone attacking your townread, but you never pushed the idea or anything. In fact you just afk'd the rest of the day. I'd like to hear some more detail about your read flip on TJ please. Also interested if your neutral read on WP has changed at all. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 17 2015 04:08 n00bKing wrote: Try to make sense of your actions from a Town perspective. Because I have a Town perspective, and your actions don't make sense. Explain your reaction to Moosy's ninja vote. Explain why you came full circle on TJ, and suggested him as a target for the Doctor. Explain why you came full circle on Grokken, after townreading him for so long. I only have a few min but I'll try and explain a little. If Moosy had in fact Ninja voted like that I would think it very suspect, but most of my reaction was due to the fact that he hadn't actually voted in the voteing thread. I even noted that in one of my posts before Onegu sorted it. That reminded me of a scum strat Onegu himself had suggested to me in my last game with him. So I freaked out a little. In fact the way that I freaked out reminded me about TJ freaking out. To be honest I'm not even that sold on the case we have on him, but that's because of some WIFOM thoughts of my own. My read on Grok was never as solid as everyone seems to assume. I believe it was points 1 & 3 in your post about him n00b that I had pointed out before, that was my only reason for having a town lean on him. Reading his filter I felt like that was no longer enough and he dropped to a neutral read, which at the time was what I had on SW as well. Based on my last post on SW I would actually probably shoot him just as easily as I would Scott if I were Vigi. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 17 2015 08:51 TJHuggins wrote: wooo This had better be you getting excited to share those thoughts/information with us... | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
So I think that confirms that we are in a Doc/ Cop setup. Pretty unlikely we have a Vigi from a no kill N2 and only the mafia kill N1. I suppose there is a slim chance that they got roleblocked, but it seems unlikely that they held a shot N1 and got blocked lastnight. I am 100% sure that we have no Veteren. Mafia would absolutely RB their NK target if there was a Vet to avoid loosing their KP. So we know we have a Doc who successfully saved the NK target. Like the only other explanation here is that Mafia are bad and didn't RB their kill with a Vet out there, or that they oddly with held their KP. Neither of those make much sense, and either way it doesn't change the position Town is in today. While it might be a good idea for roles to claim and give Town more info to work with, there is no pressing need that I see for them to do so. Blues please use your own judgment if giving yourself up (claiming means you're 100%the NK tonight) will aid town more than your continued actions. This will largely depend on how useful you believe your intel to be for town. Example: A cop with no red checks should probably hold off claiming, unless the green checks and your claim will drastically aid towns lynch today. Again, use your own best judgment. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
There is no reason not to tell us if you were roleblocked. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Right now I'd most like to lynch Scott or SW, with Tj following somewhere behind them. I'm kinda giving TJ the benefit of the doubt atm, but he needs to step it up pretty fast if he wants to keep that benefit. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 17 2015 11:44 MoosyDoosy wrote: Please explain your lynches on those two especially on silentwarrior after you get off from work. My read on SW comes largely from when I dove into his filter. I explained my read in this post. QUOTE]On July 17 2015 03:08 Tictock wrote: Actually, SW you should tell us why you think TJ is scum. A quick browse of your one page filter shows me that this is your initial read on TJ On July 13 2015 08:25 silentwarrior wrote: I also lean town on TJHuggins, since he posted that sulfurus was his second on scum list. This was also before any of the voting began, though after sulfurus posted that super scummy post and was tagged for it by Half the sky. Still a good townlean for me. Then on D2 when TJ is being pushed by most of the thread you post this. On July 15 2015 04:35 silentwarrior wrote: Scumlean: scott31337 TJHuggins Probably scum: GhandiEAGLE You never mentioned TJ in between those 2 posts. What changed your read? I also noted that your Day 1 Vote was super weak. You afk voted on NHM based on your entrance posts... On July 12 2015 08:23 silentwarrior wrote: Hey guys, sorry for being late. So I just read trough the thread and here are some of my thoughts now. First, fidei seems like a town read to me right now. He seems to genuienly want to create an enviroment that is good for town. His first post makes this obvious. Have to disagree on his stance however. Imo, most games suffer from people not saying enough than the opposite. My background is pretty newbie. Have been in a few forum mafia games, but mostly i play IRL. On July 12 2015 08:33 silentwarrior wrote: Ok, so my first scumread when reading was NydusHerMain. First it was that she voted for fidei, for a post which i feel was very towny. She then didn't explain herself, and hasn't posted anything since that. I will be interested to hear what she says about that when she returns. I also found some of what moosy said suspicous, but most of that has already been said by noobking, The most scummy thing to me was that he said he wanted to change his play, then wondered how someone could read that as. If you are town one game and then make a point to say that you change your play, then logically you will play as mafia. Which looks really bad. You basically took one look at the game, made your vote then never reevaluated. You even setup your vote by opening with a weak townread on Fidei then attack someone attacking your townread, but you never pushed the idea or anything. In fact you just afk'd the rest of the day. I'd like to hear some more detail about your read flip on TJ please. Also interested if your neutral read on WP has changed at all.[/QUOTE] I would still like SW to answer the questions I posted there. Not sure how much time I have tonight, but I want to read over Scott and Grok's filters. I also owe you guys a pretty full explanation on my TJ read. I was really hoping he'd be posting more today as right now I've got lines of thought bringing me to opposite reads on him. I'm going to take my time with those posts. Both because I want to hear more from Scott/SW/TJ but also because I want to make sure I've got solid reasoning for my reads. I also want to respond to n00bs posts from last night. ^^^^ That is more or less my To-Do list for this day phase, please hold me accountable for any of that I do not follow through on. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 17 2015 13:31 Tictock wrote: My read on SW comes largely from when I dove into his filter. I explained my read in this post. I would still like SW to answer the questions I posted there. Not sure how much time I have tonight, but I want to read over Scott and Grok's filters. I also owe you guys a pretty full explanation on my TJ read. I was really hoping he'd be posting more today as right now I've got lines of thought bringing me to opposite reads on him. I'm going to take my time with those posts. Both because I want to hear more from Scott/SW/TJ but also because I want to make sure I've got solid reasoning for my reads. I also want to respond to n00bs posts from last night. ^^^^ That is more or less my To-Do list for this day phase, please hold me accountable for any of that I do not follow through on. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I find it unlikely that scum hammers town in a mislynch, but that's no reason to ignore him. Also I ignored SW most of D2 but after reading his filter I found he deserved a lot more attention, not making that mistake again. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
in posts like this I usually spoiler the quotes I'm referring too to keep my posts from ballooning too badly. + Show Spoiler + On July 11 2015 11:06 TJHuggins wrote: Yo I have no clue wtf those acronyms mean can u put like Nydushermain (NHM) the first time you use an acronym so I can understand what you're talking about? Who is HTS? On a game note, I think it's pretty good if we all say like what our mafia background 1) I don't know anyone except for nydus and 2) i always judge my reads on people against a background of their experience (e.g. easier to read someone new to mafia based on little things they do). I have played video mafia on DailyMafia for almost two years and have never played forum mafia before. I am basically a god. I am in a clan called the elo angels because im so good and my elo is so high. My day job involves working with and for lawyers every day so i think about thinks pretty logically and might write formally at some points based on my mood. In video mafia I usually pick up on and push on (sometimes minor) logical inconsistencies and ive noticed ive been tunnelling a bit too hard lately so that may happen this game. My only read so far is that Half the Sky is spamming. [purple]Also it allowed if i just put every post I type in purple so taht you guys always know its me?[/purple] TJ's opener was decent, he asks people to share their mafia experience which is a decent place to start in a newbie game. He makes some claims about being a good player with solid video mafia experience and explains that he works with lawyers. Regardless of if that is posturing or legit I think it is safe to assume that TJ is a fairly smart player and should be accounted as one. This initially led me to scum lean on TJ for 3 reasons. 1) He was scum reading Moosy without really trying to look for town rational behind Moosy's play. + Show Spoiler + On July 12 2015 09:57 TJHuggins wrote: I agree with most about what has been said about Moosy. I'm trying to read this game similar to how I would read someone in video mafia (whether or not that is going to work remains to be seen). One way people often get on my "radar" if you will is by dropping sort of key phrases or acting in a certain way after being called out. In my first few months of playing, sometimes this scenario would happen: A particular player, who may be lurking, or just doesn't sound the same (voice tone, pattern, activeness, etc.) would get pinged out by another player who would say that they "feel different this game" or ask "why they're not playing the same as X game they played with them in." In some of these cases, the person would respond back by saying some variation of the phrase "I'm trying to switch up my play this game" or "I'm trying something new this game." I started to realize that when someone came back with this response most of the time they ended up being a mafia trying to cover up for there change in playstyle due to the change in alignment, or sometimes it was just an excuse to lurk e.g. "I'm going to try to sit back and listen and try to get town reads this game instead of trying to pressure the mafia to see how it works." I got a similar feeling looking back at what Moosy said (the quote that many have already noted), though I'll admit I didn't catch it the first time. One thing that I did catch, which I thought was kind of odd, is the quote below, though I'm not quite sure what it means yet. It's a pretty innocuous post on it's face, but what stood out for me is that he is deferring to Ghandi before making judgment. But Ghandi's role in the context of the quoted posts is so minor that I can't think what he could possibly add to the conversation that would in turn color your judgment on Grokken's alignment. In fact, I never even mentioned Ghandi in my post. If he disagrees, ok, but why is he saying he needs to wait and see what Ghandi says? Not sure if I want to lynch him today, but he's on my radar. I still want to hear more. I think you're reaching a bit here. This post seems so opposite to everything else you've written this game. What gives? On July 12 2015 23:33 TJHuggins wrote: Right now I'm at the point where I feel comfortable enough to ##vote MoosyDoosy. (reasons here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=10#191) I woke up this morning to see more posts from MD that read scum to me. I didn't think you were even allowed to vote for yourself. To me I haven't seen any protown content coming out of any of his posts, and his recent ones seem blatantly anti-town. And what really stands with me is that these are posts from someone who claims to apparently have been unanimously townread by all players but one in some recent previous forum mafia game. See his post on July 11 2015 at 16:30, ("I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting.") I'm not buying it that this is a result of you switching up your play. 2) He added Sulf into his scum list without ever talking about him, he spent decent effort giving his other scum reads. Actually TJ never explains why Sulf showed up in this list. + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2015 06:31 TJHuggins wrote: Figured I would post where I am at before EOD (for obvious reasons). Here's a scum list for me right now in order: 1. MoosyDoosy 2. Sulfuras 3. Grokken Scott, NHM, and silentwarrior are all in a 3rd category for me which includes players that haven't impressed me with their content and have not left any last impact on me. Might be mafia, might be town. I would rather wait until day 2 to deal with this group since it may give them more time to provide content for me to figure out their alignment. Personally, I'd rather kill someone whos acting scummy than someone whos just a crap shoot (actually if this were video mafia I would pressure them and force them to talk but I can't really do that here.) If at EOD 2 I still have nothing on those three, I would advocate to shooting, cop checking, lynching them. I would caution against vig shooting or cop checking any of the lurkers this night because I don't think it will really help progress our scum leads much. A vig shot is better saved on a clearly scummy person (same logic as above) and cop check better on someone whos a bit more active. 3) His reaction to EoD. + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2015 07:03 TJHuggins wrote: Wait what... the vote count was changed after the day ended. This is some shitty modding. On July 13 2015 07:05 TJHuggins wrote: I was refreshing the voting thread and never saw the change? Why was it even included in the first place if it wasn't allowed? That's silly. On July 13 2015 07:11 TJHuggins wrote: Wow. Mod-error in town's favor. I'll take it. On July 13 2015 07:14 TJHuggins wrote: I so strongly felt that MD is the most obvious mafia there could possible be... I was going to be so mad if Sulfuras flipped town. Now I'm not so sure since sulfuras was voting on MD. I need to reread Sulfuras posts to see why he was voting on MD. On July 13 2015 07:15 TJHuggins wrote: You pointed that out but none the less his vote was included in the voting thread for quite some time both before and after. I thought that perhaps it was frowned upon but no strictly forbidden. The fact that it was not corrected until after the time in the day ended is unacceptable imo. I feel very strongly about the integrity of games that I am in and it just annoys me when something like this happens. On July 13 2015 07:21 TJHuggins wrote: The mistake was made: that's fine. Everyone makes mistakes. To retroactively correct the mistake after the day ends instead of leaving it as is? Unacceptable from a game integrity standpoint. But we got a mafia; it's whatever. I get passionate about lynches. I wanted to push my scumread as soon as I jumped into the game so right as D2 began I put my vote on TJ. Unfortunately TJ has basically stopped playing since D1 ended, so any pressure information this vote may have gotten was simply non existent. Now I found this AFK to be fairly NAI. We know TJ is the boyfriend of NHM who clearly had something come up in RL to need to replace out. It seems perfectly reasonable to assume that this could be affecting TJ as well, and he even suggests this is the case. + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2015 09:24 TJHuggins wrote: I am dealing with someone that is taking priority in real life right now so I do not have time to write out a big post. I will give the essential information that I can provide to town tomorrow. probably. Towards to end of D2 I decided it was best to not let my vote ride on an AFK person, so I moved my vote around a bit. After the D2 flip I decided to re-evaluate my reads. I realized #3 of my reasons to scum read TJ was probably more of a town sign than a scum sign. If TJ is a halfway decent player he would realize this reaction would get him easily scum read, and it would be very easy for him to vent that anger in scum QT over In-Game. I began reading into TJ's promise of important info and subsequent refusal to talk about it N2 as very probable signs that he had a role claim if the votes got bad enough on him. Him not wanting to talk about it N2 is understandable as no blue should ever out themselves during night phase. At this point I figured that if I was thinking TJ might be a role here, then if he was indeed town then mafia could piece that together themselves. Thus I suggested TJ might be a decent medic save. I said that only half seriously (and whoever medic did save, gj) and as I breadcrumbed in my next post I was half just hoping to WIFOM mafia into not NKing TJ. Of course TJ might really just be using this promise to buy himself time. Though I think a scum fake claiming like that would be near suicide, so I decided to go with my gut. Points 1 & 2 have remained valid scum tells in my mind, which is why TJ is still pretty high up on my scum reads. Point #1 maybe isn't super solid though, TJ did give ok reasons for his read and he actively pushed MD a little regarding it. Now TJ clearly has clearly had an opportunity already today to post, but failed to do anything meaningful. So if I'm right about him being a role I've effectively forced him to claim. Part of me doesn't like that, but at this point I think TJ has forced that on himself given the way he's played the past few phases. I'm interested if anyone else has better reasons to think TJ is scum other than what I've mentioned here. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 17 2015 04:50 n00bKing wrote: I'm not sure of what you are saying here. If he didn't vote in the voting thread, then how did he vote at all? Votes don't count unless they appear in the voting thread, right? Are you saying that a player could like...submit a vote to the Mod via PM, without posting it in the voting thread, and still have it count? Because I didn't think something like that was possible (But I'm a n00b and this is only my 2nd game here, so I'm not sure.) If something like that IS possible, and you thought that's what happened (because Moosy's vote showed up in Onegu's vote count, but it wasn't in the voting thread) then your reaction will make more sense, even though Moosy's vote did not impact the lynch. Because you wouldn't have been able to know that he hadn't submitted it earlier, when he thought it WOULD impact the lynch. Like, honestly, if players can submit votes directly to the Mods via PM, without using the voting thread, my suspicion of you will go down dramatically. This was suggested to me by Onegu in the Holy Guardians game as a way for Scum to swap their votes around EoD. In hindsight it makes little sense for Scum to have done that in this situation, but I was assuming the Final Vote Count posted was correct and that this is what happened. I had the same reaction you are having when Onegu suggested this to me. It still seems like something that shouldn't be allowed. It was an over reaction to a weird voting mistake, pretty simple. On July 17 2015 06:18 Fidei86 wrote: TickTock has said a bunch of weird things. Top amongst those is wanting to get a medic save on his most scum read player. I'm also still upset that he said that my vote on Sulfurus was somehow ninja, when I telegraphed it a mile in advance. Finally, his voting on Scott then coming off was just bizarre. I don't see a reason to move off a scum read and onto someone you'd been town reading at certain points, just to "make things interesting". You know that isn't what I said, why are you pushing that out of proportion? I pointed out that you had no mention of Sulf in your filter before this post, we even discussed this earlier. On July 13 2015 02:32 Fidei86 wrote: @n00bking I'm down for that. I'd rather lynch a lurker than Moosy. At least Moosy is here and semi-willing to engage. There's still a few hours before deadline, but right now I'd lynch Scott and/or Sulfur and/or NHM without hesitation. At best you can say you sheeped n00b and HtS on the Sulf lynch. What is your opinion of SW Fidei? | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
For now SW takes priority for me. ## Vote: silentwarrior | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
He has stated multiple times that he "doesn't have any actual scumreads apart from Ghandi" yet I don't see him trying to do anything about it. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 17 2015 07:14 scott31337 wrote: And don't give me that TMI crap - if it's a vet setup (mafia knows) they 99.9% RB their shot - and there was no d2/d3 vigi shot - so... Don't out unless you have a red check BTW - it's not lylo.I think your conclusion is sound and I fully agree as I have said. I find it very interesting that you are concerned about having TMI though... | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 17 2015 19:02 Fidei86 wrote: @TickTock I don't want to blow this out of proportion, but however you worded it, that's what you implied. And it stands against you. It's not the only reason, or even the main reason I would vote for you, but I do count it against you. I guess it's for others to decide who they believe (or whether they believe both of us...). You think I am scummy for calling you out on that? That's interesting. What about me pointing out that there is no mention of Sulf in your filter up until that post (which was after he got called out by n00b) makes me scum? Tell me more about why you think I am scum this game. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 17 2015 06:18 Fidei86 wrote: The TJH lynch has been explained at length, and it's almost certainly the correct one. I stopped recording points on him when I got to #7. Also, whereas Ghandi was still trying to solve the game all of D2, TJH did nothing constructive at all. Actually Fidei what were those 7 points regarding why you think TJ is scum? Please indulge us. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
He is also rather absent from your filter. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I'll post a solid case on SW here in a bit, I am definitely thinking he is the best lynch atm. I have a couple hours before work, I'll get it done before that. The comment for Scott (second sentence) I also don't like because there is a world where a town Scott would say something like that. (If Scott is Mafia its not for that.) Setup speculation is NAI in most cases to begin with but it's not out of the realm of possibilities for a town veteran to say that in a newbie game (where newbies may not grasp mechanics). Even ignoring Scott's meta (which Tictock won't know regardless of alignment) the reaction could also come from any town who is already being scumread widely and this is true for Scott. He could be saying this as mafia but in reality as any alignment. You make a good point, I had the same thought but I wanted to see any further reactions from Scott. To me I just thought it was interesting that his mind even went to that as being TMI. I had the same thought, drew the same conclusion, but never once did it occur to me that making that statement/argument could be considered TMI. So him commenting on it shows that his mind is already considering TMI, but you do make a solid point that a paniked Towny could have that same thought. As for TJ. So the biggest thing besides the points I made at the top of pg 37, here. Is that TJ is like being universally pushed as scum, but that hardly anyone is making a real case on him. Before I started to rethink my read on TJ, Ghandi was the only one to say TJ was a bad lynch. So realistically it's pretty much the entire thread vs TJ right now (+ Show Spoiler + I still don't mind seeing him lynched as the game stands, but I understand you can't take my word for that It REALLY bugs me the nobody is even really saying why TJ is scum anymore. That is probably the biggest reason why I don't feel comfortable lynching him atm. Not at all important, you prob don't even want to read it... + Show Spoiler + Also just FYI, I think I may be picking up some frequencies from your Tin Foil Hat, kus I'm starting to think along the same line. I'll talk about this more later this phase. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Even if TJ is scum, he is still only half the team remaining. Clearly in this world TJ's partner buses TJ for the town cred and tries to keep pushing. So I would just like to make the effort to look for his teammate if TJ is in fact scum. That world still doesn't fully make sense to me though, like TJ has been around enough to know that if he is scum he needs to make some kinda effort. One person taking on 6 Town plus whatever blue powers we are able to keep using to our advantage... That is a ballsy scumplay. In a world where TJ is scum and getting bussed, the final scum has nerves of steel to try and take down the rest of town solo. If that is the world that we live in... *shivers* Much more likely that is TJ were scum he would have already claimed or something to throw out as much chaos from his death as possible, but here TJ isn't even taking that option... | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I started off D3 saying that SW and Scott are my top scum reads with TJ somewhere behind them. TJHuggins - Whats up with this guy? The more I've talked about why I'm unsure of TJ the more I've doubted my scum read on him. He clearly looks really bad, but the pieces aren't falling into place for him to be scum to me. I've made extensive posts on him already so just read them if you somehow missed them. + Show Spoiler + On July 17 2015 15:41 Tictock wrote: Alright so my full thoughts on TJ. This is sorta a filter dive / explanation of the evolution of my read. in posts like this I usually spoiler the quotes I'm referring too to keep my posts from ballooning too badly. + Show Spoiler + On July 11 2015 11:06 TJHuggins wrote: Yo I have no clue wtf those acronyms mean can u put like Nydushermain (NHM) the first time you use an acronym so I can understand what you're talking about? Who is HTS? On a game note, I think it's pretty good if we all say like what our mafia background 1) I don't know anyone except for nydus and 2) i always judge my reads on people against a background of their experience (e.g. easier to read someone new to mafia based on little things they do). I have played video mafia on DailyMafia for almost two years and have never played forum mafia before. I am basically a god. I am in a clan called the elo angels because im so good and my elo is so high. My day job involves working with and for lawyers every day so i think about thinks pretty logically and might write formally at some points based on my mood. In video mafia I usually pick up on and push on (sometimes minor) logical inconsistencies and ive noticed ive been tunnelling a bit too hard lately so that may happen this game. My only read so far is that Half the Sky is spamming. [purple]Also it allowed if i just put every post I type in purple so taht you guys always know its me?[/purple] TJ's opener was decent, he asks people to share their mafia experience which is a decent place to start in a newbie game. He makes some claims about being a good player with solid video mafia experience and explains that he works with lawyers. Regardless of if that is posturing or legit I think it is safe to assume that TJ is a fairly smart player and should be accounted as one. This initially led me to scum lean on TJ for 3 reasons. 1) He was scum reading Moosy without really trying to look for town rational behind Moosy's play. + Show Spoiler + On July 12 2015 09:57 TJHuggins wrote: I agree with most about what has been said about Moosy. I'm trying to read this game similar to how I would read someone in video mafia (whether or not that is going to work remains to be seen). One way people often get on my "radar" if you will is by dropping sort of key phrases or acting in a certain way after being called out. In my first few months of playing, sometimes this scenario would happen: A particular player, who may be lurking, or just doesn't sound the same (voice tone, pattern, activeness, etc.) would get pinged out by another player who would say that they "feel different this game" or ask "why they're not playing the same as X game they played with them in." In some of these cases, the person would respond back by saying some variation of the phrase "I'm trying to switch up my play this game" or "I'm trying something new this game." I started to realize that when someone came back with this response most of the time they ended up being a mafia trying to cover up for there change in playstyle due to the change in alignment, or sometimes it was just an excuse to lurk e.g. "I'm going to try to sit back and listen and try to get town reads this game instead of trying to pressure the mafia to see how it works." I got a similar feeling looking back at what Moosy said (the quote that many have already noted), though I'll admit I didn't catch it the first time. One thing that I did catch, which I thought was kind of odd, is the quote below, though I'm not quite sure what it means yet. It's a pretty innocuous post on it's face, but what stood out for me is that he is deferring to Ghandi before making judgment. But Ghandi's role in the context of the quoted posts is so minor that I can't think what he could possibly add to the conversation that would in turn color your judgment on Grokken's alignment. In fact, I never even mentioned Ghandi in my post. If he disagrees, ok, but why is he saying he needs to wait and see what Ghandi says? Not sure if I want to lynch him today, but he's on my radar. I still want to hear more. I think you're reaching a bit here. This post seems so opposite to everything else you've written this game. What gives? On July 12 2015 23:33 TJHuggins wrote: Right now I'm at the point where I feel comfortable enough to ##vote MoosyDoosy. (reasons here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=10#191) I woke up this morning to see more posts from MD that read scum to me. I didn't think you were even allowed to vote for yourself. To me I haven't seen any protown content coming out of any of his posts, and his recent ones seem blatantly anti-town. And what really stands with me is that these are posts from someone who claims to apparently have been unanimously townread by all players but one in some recent previous forum mafia game. See his post on July 11 2015 at 16:30, ("I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting.") I'm not buying it that this is a result of you switching up your play. 2) He added Sulf into his scum list without ever talking about him, he spent decent effort giving his other scum reads. Actually TJ never explains why Sulf showed up in this list. + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2015 06:31 TJHuggins wrote: Figured I would post where I am at before EOD (for obvious reasons). Here's a scum list for me right now in order: 1. MoosyDoosy 2. Sulfuras 3. Grokken Scott, NHM, and silentwarrior are all in a 3rd category for me which includes players that haven't impressed me with their content and have not left any last impact on me. Might be mafia, might be town. I would rather wait until day 2 to deal with this group since it may give them more time to provide content for me to figure out their alignment. Personally, I'd rather kill someone whos acting scummy than someone whos just a crap shoot (actually if this were video mafia I would pressure them and force them to talk but I can't really do that here.) If at EOD 2 I still have nothing on those three, I would advocate to shooting, cop checking, lynching them. I would caution against vig shooting or cop checking any of the lurkers this night because I don't think it will really help progress our scum leads much. A vig shot is better saved on a clearly scummy person (same logic as above) and cop check better on someone whos a bit more active. 3) His reaction to EoD. + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2015 07:03 TJHuggins wrote: Wait what... the vote count was changed after the day ended. This is some shitty modding. On July 13 2015 07:05 TJHuggins wrote: I was refreshing the voting thread and never saw the change? Why was it even included in the first place if it wasn't allowed? That's silly. On July 13 2015 07:11 TJHuggins wrote: Wow. Mod-error in town's favor. I'll take it. On July 13 2015 07:14 TJHuggins wrote: I so strongly felt that MD is the most obvious mafia there could possible be... I was going to be so mad if Sulfuras flipped town. Now I'm not so sure since sulfuras was voting on MD. I need to reread Sulfuras posts to see why he was voting on MD. On July 13 2015 07:15 TJHuggins wrote: You pointed that out but none the less his vote was included in the voting thread for quite some time both before and after. I thought that perhaps it was frowned upon but no strictly forbidden. The fact that it was not corrected until after the time in the day ended is unacceptable imo. I feel very strongly about the integrity of games that I am in and it just annoys me when something like this happens. On July 13 2015 07:21 TJHuggins wrote: The mistake was made: that's fine. Everyone makes mistakes. To retroactively correct the mistake after the day ends instead of leaving it as is? Unacceptable from a game integrity standpoint. But we got a mafia; it's whatever. I get passionate about lynches. I wanted to push my scumread as soon as I jumped into the game so right as D2 began I put my vote on TJ. Unfortunately TJ has basically stopped playing since D1 ended, so any pressure information this vote may have gotten was simply non existent. Now I found this AFK to be fairly NAI. We know TJ is the boyfriend of NHM who clearly had something come up in RL to need to replace out. It seems perfectly reasonable to assume that this could be affecting TJ as well, and he even suggests this is the case. + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2015 09:24 TJHuggins wrote: I am dealing with someone that is taking priority in real life right now so I do not have time to write out a big post. I will give the essential information that I can provide to town tomorrow. probably. Towards to end of D2 I decided it was best to not let my vote ride on an AFK person, so I moved my vote around a bit. After the D2 flip I decided to re-evaluate my reads. I realized #3 of my reasons to scum read TJ was probably more of a town sign than a scum sign. If TJ is a halfway decent player he would realize this reaction would get him easily scum read, and it would be very easy for him to vent that anger in scum QT over In-Game. I began reading into TJ's promise of important info and subsequent refusal to talk about it N2 as very probable signs that he had a role claim if the votes got bad enough on him. Him not wanting to talk about it N2 is understandable as no blue should ever out themselves during night phase. At this point I figured that if I was thinking TJ might be a role here, then if he was indeed town then mafia could piece that together themselves. Thus I suggested TJ might be a decent medic save. I said that only half seriously (and whoever medic did save, gj) and as I breadcrumbed in my next post I was half just hoping to WIFOM mafia into not NKing TJ. Of course TJ might really just be using this promise to buy himself time. Though I think a scum fake claiming like that would be near suicide, so I decided to go with my gut. Points 1 & 2 have remained valid scum tells in my mind, which is why TJ is still pretty high up on my scum reads. Point #1 maybe isn't super solid though, TJ did give ok reasons for his read and he actively pushed MD a little regarding it. Now TJ clearly has clearly had an opportunity already today to post, but failed to do anything meaningful. So if I'm right about him being a role I've effectively forced him to claim. Part of me doesn't like that, but at this point I think TJ has forced that on himself given the way he's played the past few phases. I'm interested if anyone else has better reasons to think TJ is scum other than what I've mentioned here. On July 17 2015 23:19 Tictock wrote: As for TJ. So the biggest thing besides the points I made at the top of pg 37, here. Is that TJ is like being universally pushed as scum, but that hardly anyone is making a real case on him. Before I started to rethink my read on TJ, Ghandi was the only one to say TJ was a bad lynch. So realistically it's pretty much the entire thread vs TJ right now (+ Show Spoiler + I still don't mind seeing him lynched as the game stands, but I understand you can't take my word for that It REALLY bugs me the nobody is even really saying why TJ is scum anymore. That is probably the biggest reason why I don't feel comfortable lynching him atm. Not at all important, you prob don't even want to read it... + Show Spoiler + Also just FYI, I think I may be picking up some frequencies from your Tin Foil Hat, kus I'm starting to think along the same line. I'll talk about this more later this phase. On July 17 2015 23:39 Tictock wrote: One other point in regards to TJ I wasn't quite able to articulate before. Even if TJ is scum, he is still only half the team remaining. Clearly in this world TJ's partner buses TJ for the town cred and tries to keep pushing. So I would just like to make the effort to look for his teammate if TJ is in fact scum. That world still doesn't fully make sense to me though, like TJ has been around enough to know that if he is scum he needs to make some kinda effort. One person taking on 6 Town plus whatever blue powers we are able to keep using to our advantage... That is a ballsy scumplay. In a world where TJ is scum and getting bussed, the final scum has nerves of steel to try and take down the rest of town solo. If that is the world that we live in... *shivers* Much more likely that is TJ were scum he would have already claimed or something to throw out as much chaos from his death as possible, but here TJ isn't even taking that option... Like, he really could be scum here I'm just having a hard time believing that world right now. I'd rather not spend all today beating a dead horse if nothing else. scott31337 - Playing to a win condition? Meta Read: Meh - inconclusive. + Show Spoiler + I'm used to Scott participating as town a lot more, but I've honestly only played one real game with him in Holy Guardians. Scott was in the first 2 newbie games I played in, but was lynched D1 in both those games. If I had to compare Scott's play here to any of those games it would be NSW IX where scott got himself Mislynched as town D1 for being unable to convince town that he wasn't scum after a weird mistake early in the phase. I've honestly never seen Scott's scum meta, so at best I can say Scott is town from my meta read on him, but that's a pretty poor read. Typically my response when someone posts very little is to take their posts much more seriously. So lets try that with Scott D1: Literally one post, and it sucked. Also failed to vote... very unusual for Scott imo. + Show Spoiler + On July 12 2015 01:02 scott31337 wrote: Good Morning... Let me wake up a bit more and re-read, but I don't see a whole lot to go on so far that sticks out at me - except a slight town lean on Fidei. N1: Looking better. Was the first to go ahead and call everyone on the Sulf wagon Town, pushed me for suggesting MD be a Cop check. His EoD apology and Reaction posts are NAI. + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2015 03:03 scott31337 wrote: I'm so sorry I forgot to vote guys - deadline and other things blew right by me. Let me catch up and post my thoughts. On July 14 2015 03:06 scott31337 wrote: I just saw the GF got lynched - nniiccee That's a nice vote count too - gives us a boatload of information. On July 14 2015 03:52 scott31337 wrote: FINAL VOTE COUNT Sulfurus(4):Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, Noobking MoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy I mean I have to believe everyone on Sulf is town - with HtS at the top. I'm going to re-read every one on Moosy. TT replaced NHM. Welcome ol' buddy On July 14 2015 10:37 scott31337 wrote: Why is MD a cop check? Please explain more from your reasoning. D2: Basically says nothing. The vote on TJ with no explanation besides "I don't wanna be modkilled" looks like shit. Another promise to be active, with no follow-up. + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2015 10:42 scott31337 wrote: I'm off in left field in this game but I think we almost have it solved - Sorry I'm not contributing much. HtS town love gives me a stiffy and normally she's not solid - <3 On July 15 2015 07:18 scott31337 wrote: Yayy I'm dead in the other game so I can concentrate on this one now - I'll do some buttkicking tonight after house cleaning. On July 16 2015 00:25 scott31337 wrote: I've been really busy as well, but I can't forget to vote this time...We don't need any modkilled townies. ##Vote Tjhuggins N2: Finally scott posts some reads... too bad they are all terrible, and I mean like really terrible. His top scumread is WP and his reason is basically WP said Scott and Ghandi were scum D1, and Ghandi flipped green... It also looks really bad that Scott now seems to have no opinion on TJ, yet he voted for TJ D2. Seriously, this is like the worst set of reads I've seen this game. + Show Spoiler + On July 17 2015 06:17 scott31337 wrote: So having some free time finally - I did some filter diving - HtS is top town and nuff said, even her play is there, not going to bother Fidei looks good too N00bkingas well. Grokken looks a bit better from his explanations- and how he didn't just try to scumread me for my activity and actually looked into explanations - and his wording seems natural to me. He's a townlean for now. WonnaPlay would be the opposite, with top scumming me. "1] Scott - Gets defended by some people, without him having done anything. I think one of the people talking for him is atleast scum, defending scum. It would also explain the post Sulfurus made about "unvalid vote" and would even explain the night kill on Kelsier (if what you guys saying is true about veterans killing Kelsier). He isn't even AFK, but because he's afraid from HtS and therefore he is lurking, which raises alarmbells all over the place for me.. 2] Ghandi - too sketchy for my taste. The reason I don't have Ghandi on my #1 is that his list looks pretty decent. I'd agree on most points with him there, but who knows if he turns around again after that.. Also his conclusion on Scott being town is totally unwarranted. If Scott turns out to be scum, then Ghandi is one aswell. 3] TJH - made some weird posts during the end of the day regarding the votes, but I could see him being legitimately frustrated about his idea of different rules. I do think that HtS made some solid points, which I can't ignore since she was spot on in the last day. He's also very quiet since that day.. " Well we know Ghandi is town now, as well. silentwarrior - He seems to believe in his case, and has some decent points - it could be a mafia case trying to get a mislynch, but I just don't feel that (although he was incorrect) - His posts seem okay for now - he's a null/light town read. Tictock - his last game made me pretty paranoid. He did a quick vote for Wonna (which I don't care for) but there isn't much else that sticks out at me about him. No tunnels either. Null/scumlean Moosy - so he was the other wagon on D1 - There could be that 1% chance that both wagons were scum, but I'm pretty doubtful - so thats something there. He's got some good thoughts in here - and I believe his anger with the d2 vote wasn't "ninja voted" - townlean TJH - Not much here to go on - but one of his latest posts - Is pretty bad in my opinion - the votes were pretty interesting at the end - unsure what in his reads have changed either. Null ## Sulfurus / WonnaPlay / Tictock for gamecreds I'll be around for about 2-3 hours (finally!) so if you have any questions or things you'd like me to check, please let me know - but it's going to pretty bad (Multiple job interviews, friend broke his ankle, and help another friend buy/move/fix a car - all things I did not plan - have been affecting my time here - I apologize) D3: Same pattern of posting so far... Also the point I made earlier about how Scott is worried about having TMI, idk HtS pointed out it could be paranoid towny thinking. + Show Spoiler + On July 17 2015 07:10 scott31337 wrote: Nice job Medic On July 17 2015 07:14 scott31337 wrote: And don't give me that TMI crap - if it's a vet setup (mafia knows) they 99.9% RB their shot - and there was no d2/d3 vigi shot - so... Don't out unless you have a red check BTW - it's not lylo.Yea, Scott is a fine lynch today as well. His play just looks like he is coasting and doesn't really seem to care about the game. The 2 things that really point to him being scum to me here are his; 1)vote on TJ D2 with no explanation, and then the sudden indifference to TJ in his reads post. 2) That Scott thought saying there was a medic was TMI when it was a very valid assumption. silentwarrior - Silent but Deadly? So I kinda posted my read on SW already, here, as such what follows is moreso my case on him right now. 1) SW's D1 play. He comes into the game and in the space of 10 min makes his only reads of the day. He then solo votes based on those reads almost 24 hours later without really commenting on the rest of the game. + Show Spoiler + On July 12 2015 08:23 silentwarrior wrote: Hey guys, sorry for being late. So I just read trough the thread and here are some of my thoughts now. First, fidei seems like a town read to me right now. He seems to genuienly want to create an enviroment that is good for town. His first post makes this obvious. Have to disagree on his stance however. Imo, most games suffer from people not saying enough than the opposite. My background is pretty newbie. Have been in a few forum mafia games, but mostly i play IRL. On July 12 2015 08:33 silentwarrior wrote: Ok, so my first scumread when reading was NydusHerMain. First it was that she voted for fidei, for a post which i feel was very towny. She then didn't explain herself, and hasn't posted anything since that. I will be interested to hear what she says about that when she returns. I also found some of what moosy said suspicous, but most of that has already been said by noobking, The most scummy thing to me was that he said he wanted to change his play, then wondered how someone could read that as. If you are town one game and then make a point to say that you change your play, then logically you will play as mafia. On July 13 2015 06:04 silentwarrior wrote: Gonna vote for NydusHerMain. Right now, she isn't saying much at all, and left pretty suspiciously. I would rather her get lynched than MoosyDoosy, since he is actually active and contributing. That helps the town, even if most of what he says is bad and he is still high on my scumlist. However, not saying anything dosen't help much at all. 2) Since I replaced in SW has completely ignored me. If he thought NHM was scummy enough to solo vote D1 why is he not even trying to get a read on me? I literally show up twice in SW's filter, once when he posts a list and my slot is suddenly neutral and once when he directly responds to a post from me. 3) SW flips his read on TJ with literally no explanation. I pointed this out before, but I'll repost the quotes here as well. This just looks like SW is following thread sentiment to me. + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2015 08:25 silentwarrior wrote: I also lean town on TJHuggins, since he posted that sulfurus was his second on scum list. This was also before any of the voting began, though after sulfurus posted that super scummy post and was tagged for it by Half the sky. Still a good townlean for me. Also, i get a townvibe from wonnaplay. Of course, I could be all wrong about this, and mafia decided to sacrifice sulfurus, but dont really think so right now. Regardless, those reamaining that I think the mafia is among is : scott31337, GhandiEAGLE, NydusHerMain. One or two of these three are probably mafia. On July 15 2015 04:35 silentwarrior wrote: EBWOP (accidently hit post) Here are my views on everyone: Most likely town: n00bKing Half the Sky Fidei86 MoosyDoosy Town lean: Grokken Neutral: NydusHerMain/TICKTOCK WonnaPlay Scumlean: scott31337 TJHuggins Probably scum: GhandiEAGLE 4) This point me be a little more neutral, but it fits with the "following thread sentiment" notion. SW's biggest post was his case on Ghandi, however his "case" came well after I had been pinging out Ghandi most of the day and HtS posted a large case on Ghandi as well. Check where this post came in terms of thread sentiment against ghandi. To give SW credit where it is due, he had pinged out Ghandi himself in this post On July 14 2015 08:59 silentwarrior wrote: The guy who has contributed the least (scott) is somehow definetly town for you? And your explanation about it is just bullshit, it makes no sense. I smell mafia here. So his read is consistent, but he is far from the first person to be picking out Ghandi. I will also note that it is unlikely that SW put together his large post on Ghandi after reading HtS's post, so this could actually be a point in SW's favor. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I'm not trying to make association cases at all, my post talking about TJ and a scummate was all hypothetical based on a world where TJ is in fact scum. There is definitely some WIFOM in that post, but hopefully not too much. Like you said, with TJ not providing anything new to go on... there is nothing new to discuss about TJ. That's why I want to look at other people. If TJ is town he needs to spill the beans on whatever he's withholding. If he's scum he needs to come up with something decent to talk about to get him our from suspicion. If he doesn't change his tune I have no issues with lynching him. Thus until TJ either gives us something or it is nearing EoD with no word from him... I'm going to spend my time and vote elsewhere. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Someone help me lynch SW or Scott... Or at least talk about something other than TJ not being around still. Like I really feel like we are wasting the day right now. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Lynching TJ today is not a waste, but if he ends up flipping town then what have we actually learned today? Hell even if he flips scum are we any closer to identifying his teammate after today? | ||
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Tictock
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Between the 2 of them SW has actually engaged in the thread a little. Scott has only dropped in to make a post or two then buggered off, there is zero evidence of his reads evolving based on the game, where as SW actually put some effort into his large post about Ghandi and had pinged him out before that case. Assuming the follow up question is why I am voting SW over scott... I want people to consider other players who have not already been talked about by almost everyone, also I want him to answer the questions I posed to him. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 18 2015 08:25 silentwarrior wrote: This is just a complete lie. I did mention him again and my change of opinon of him is stated there. Where? Show me that post, I have looked through your filter and failed to find and mention of TJ between those 2 posts I quoted. This is also incorrect. I tagged GhandiEagle right after he made that strange comment about scott being town. My big case came later, but I was on to him before you were, and I also said I would analyze him more. I saw that post, pretty sure I mentioned it in that case on you as well. I even stated that that point was sorta weak and that was part of why. I'd also like you to give us your thoughts on WP. I know I know, I'm a demanding A-hole. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 18 2015 08:17 MoosyDoosy wrote: WonnaPlay are you there? I wish to give you an assignment. You should just say what you want from him, if you wait till you both are around the thread at the same time... Well that may never even happen. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 18 2015 07:25 TJHuggins wrote: ##Vote: silentwarrior TJ made this vote about 2 hours ago. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
TJ's play this game past D1 as either alignment is pure shit. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Alright, it's super unclear who your are referring to in that post but I see what you mean. Besides with that vote from TJ I don't think we have any choice BUT to lynch him now. After him it's Scott. Yes that's pretty much regardless on how TJ flips at this point. ##Unvote ##Vote: TJHuggins | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Will share if TJ flips red. I expect town will pick up on it anyways, we seem to be on the same Tin Foil hat frequency this game. I've raised enough hubub today. I'm gunna bugger off now unless something interesting happens. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 18 2015 10:23 TJHuggins wrote: You guys are all terrible. I am the cop. I have a town check on MoosyDoosy and a mafia check on silentwarrior. it should have been obvious to everyone from the night that i am cop. anyone im off to sleep. posting on twitter #lynchsilentwarrior Honestly screw you for holding off this long to say jack all. In my mind you waited far too long to make this claim, and voting with me silently without actually saying this before had is even worse. I honestly just want to lynch you still for being terrible. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
This oddly makes me want to lynch TJ even more. It all just feels too convenient... like I even suggested MD as a check N1. Town is at an advantage, and if TJ is actually our Cop he's gone or at least RB'd from now on regardless. We still have our medic... Lets look at a few possible situations for tomorrow. We have a 8/2 game atm. Lynching TJ Worst Case: We lynch TJ today, he flips Cop. Mafia gets NK. 6/2 but we have a confirmed Scum... puts as at 5/1 next phase. We get MD confirmed here as well Best Case: We lynch TJ, flips red. Mafia gets Nk. Start off 7/1 tomorrow. No real new information, too much WIFOM. Lynching SW Worst Case: We lynch SW, he flips Green. Mafia gets NK. 6/2 again with confirmed Scum. Best Case: Lynch SW, flips red. Mafia get NK. Again 7/1, however we have more info as town, MD confirmed and TJ confirmed if he survives the night. Bleh, idk that is full of weird things that can happen with medic saves and I'm probably missing some stuff too. Honestly though we get more or less the same deal regardless of who we lynch today, though obviously it is preferable if we do in fact catch scum. Honestly the only difference I see is in the potential saves by Medic but that comes down to so much WIFOM. There seems to be more potential information provided to town via lynching SW if he is in fact mafia. So I guess that is what we go with. My gut is telling me TJ is playing us though... Anyone please feel free to comment on this. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 18 2015 12:13 Half the Sky wrote: If any scummer is fake claiming the real DT claims. Straightforward. Yea yea... I can way overcomplicate things. The important thing here is that I might be getting a lot better drawing good conclusions from it | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
*Swaps vote back to TJ On July 18 2015 13:49 Grokken wrote: If he is the roleblocker, I check either scott or WP. If the check returns green we lynch the one I didn't check. I had totally forgotten the possibility of catching the Mafia RB here which would basically make this game over. TJ flips red, I bet Scott is the last mafia. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 18 2015 22:17 Half the Sky wrote: James is probably messing with us. He is probably the last Mafia. /tinfoil  (Yes Fidei's name is actually James...I play Dota too much with him. <3 Maybe you can join us too Grokken if you don't mind 3k scrubs )Teams being stacked is very possible. Teams are RNGed by most hosts. Skill is irrelevant. 100% This. I've been having the same tinfoil theory. It's pretty simple, of all the people on the Sulf wagon D1 Fidei is easily the most likely to be Mafia bussing. There are 3 solid reasons for it, then some WIFOM evidence from Fidei's reaction here recently. 1) I brought this point up a long time ago, and I always thought it was interesting how much Fidei has fought me on it. Fidei was ignoring Sulf for the majority of D1 and only appears in his filter after n00b points him out, he places his vote only after n00b and HtS are clearly moving to lynch Sulf. Semi-WIFOM scum reasoning here: + Show Spoiler + Scum!Fidei is absolutly smart enough to see that n00b and HtS are strong town players and that Sulf is being pushed hard, plus at the time that he joins the wagon there wasn't too much danger that it would go through (we also have the MD self vote stuff going on). In the event that the Sulf wagon does gain steam then Fidei has gotten massive towncred for being on that wagon which is perfect for him. Sheeping 2 strong town like this is a solid move for scum when you see they have a good case on your teammate. 2) I see pretty much no way that n00b or HtS can be scum. Most of this is from a couple of their posts where they mind melded so well. They each posted longish posts about more or less the same thing within minuets of each other. If we didnt have one confirmed scum outside HtS/n00b/Fidei I would be worried about a world where both are scum, but since only one of those 3 could possibly be scum here I think these posts strongly support HtS ad n00b being town (sorry not looking up the exact posts right now, maybe later). Also it seems unlikely still that n00b or HtS would actively try to Bus Sulf on D1, much more likely scum move is to jump on a newly formed and fairly strong looking wagon that happens to be a bus than to start that wagon yourself. 3) This point is a bit WIFOM and I'm going to pack a couple of thoughts into one point here so bear with me a little. Fidei more or less drops off after D1. Having gotten pretty solid towncred he would not feel like he needs to do much anymore. Still what he does do D2 is largely push Ghandi. Fidei gives a read on TJ where he agree's with HtS but thats all he says. I dont have the time to do much checking right now, but someone should dig through Fidei's filter and see how he's been reading TJ and how that read changes. I'm willing to bet that TJ is hardly mentioned at all. Also, anyone remember this? On July 17 2015 06:18 Fidei86 wrote: The TJH lynch has been explained at length, and it's almost certainly the correct one. I stopped recording points on him when I got to #7. Also, whereas Ghandi was still trying to solve the game all of D2, TJH did nothing constructive at all. I called Fidei out since he claimed to have a bunch of reasons why TJ was scum, but never shared them. He had made 7 points about Ghandi D2 though... When asked about this, here is Fidei's reply. On July 18 2015 02:08 Fidei86 wrote: Also, re my seven points on TJH, I actually did write them down on a piece of paper. Stupidly I didn't bring it when I left the office. However, the one that hasn't been said before I don't think is that in his first post he said he was an incredibly strong player and liked to pick up on and tunnel on small logical inconsistencies. He was right, he did nitpick at Grokken's first post and at my getting a bit shirty with Moosy. But when it came to it, he didn't take either of those reads anywhere and he basically coasted through D1. Oh, and something I just thought of - HTS' case on Sulfurus was incredibly strong. I'm ashamed of myself now for not spotting what she did, because it was incredibly chronic. I really need to go back to D1 and look at who had the chance to read and consider the wagon, but decided to go elsewhere. Because either they are misguided town or scum. 4) This one is a bit Ironic to me. Fidei accused me of this earlier... On July 18 2015 02:02 Fidei86 wrote: Overall I would describe your posting as going at 100kph in a 40kph zone. You're shifting your reads on AFK players based on tiny shreds of evidence, or on nothing at all. You also were "reluctant" to town read me at first for no real reason, then you later moved on to say that the entire Sulfurus wagon was pure, again with no new evidence whatsoever. This was more or less Fidei's thinking on why I could be scum as well. The funny thing here... this is exactly how Fidei has been acting since Grok claimed and made this post... On July 18 2015 14:57 Grokken wrote: Not sure why I'm even asking, seems like the only way we can lose now is if HtS/n00b/Fidei is the last mafia, which is unlikely to say the least. Fidei is suddenly all over SW. I know he had mentioned him before so it's not a read change or anything but he was mildly supporting the idea and now has it kicked into high gear. That tone is fairly prevalent in all of Fidei's posts after Grok suggested one of HtS/n00b/Fidei possibly being mafia. While it is completely possible that TJ was trying to distance himself from SW if they are indeed scum mates this doesn't add up very well. Like in that world TJ would have to be planning to somehow survive the game after claiming cop and getting his partner lynched. That just doesn't add up, no way does TJ survive into LyLo after claiming, just the idea of Mafia not picking him off seems absurd unless somehow Medi survives into 3 man LyLo as well. Super risky scum play there... Conclusion: Fidei is very likely Mafia here. Thankfully Town now has plenty of intel that I think this is an easily won game. We simply PoE out anyone still under suspicion , starting with Fidei > Scott > SW > WP. Main point here, don't let Fidei survive till LyLo/MyLo and similarly pick lynch targets with this in mind. /Game | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I touched on it, but my case was a little thrown together. Wont have time to do all the proper leg-work till sometime D4. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 18 2015 19:36 Fidei86 wrote: I couldn't have solved this game without the following people: HTS - so glad I was town with you. I think if you had rolled scum, it would have been GG. n00b - I won't eff with you I promise Grokken - Bro, you did a nice job as cop, checking exactly the right people and trying to help town without making yourself a target for NK. Props. I'm very impressed. You've got a bright future here. TT - Buddy, what can I say. I'm sorry about the things I said yesterday. You were the first one on the SW wagon, and without you this wouldn't have been possible. TL;DR If I can see this far, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants. Cute post. Especially the bit about me. I honestly don't see what I made possible at all here. HtS and n00b got Sulf D1, and today would have likely played out exactly the same with or without me. All I've done is provided SW as an alternative Mislynch target is he is in fact town. I'm not egotistical enough to not see that I've largely flailed around a lot of this game. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On July 13 2015 22:07 Fidei86 wrote: Also, I think this is probably worth saying - if there is a medic, they should 100% try and save HTS this evening. She is probably the most town-read person (maybe along side me), but given that she just nailed Sulfurus in one post, I definitely think she's towns biggest asset right now. She's definitely smarter than me, anyway It's not much, and again kinda WIFOM. This was Fidei's only suggested night action N1, if he wanted to make a suggestion why single out a Medic save? Think about that from a town and scum mindset... | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
GG everyone, sorry to Fidei and SW for pushing you guys as scum this past day. I hadn't actually taken much time to properly read though WP's filter. Think I need to get much better at not letting myself get ahead of my reads. I tend to latch onto an idea and run with it wile ignoring other things. Was probably a little overboard on how all over the place I was. Part of it was purposefully to stir the pot a little but a lot of it was just throwing out thoughts and ideas. Town was pretty brutal this game with so many people being on point. I have to laugh at HtS being our Medic, she did great. Made herself look like the obvious medic save to the point where scum didn't even want to try to kill her for fear of that. First time replacing into a game, kinda weird. Would have sucked had this game been more active as well, but pretty manageable here. | ||
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