EPTPlz no spamerino threaderino :-/
Newbie Student Mafia XII
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
Plz no spamerino threaderino :-/ | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
I tease, I tease. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 11 2015 07:02 Half the Sky wrote: YAY confirmed town <3 If only posting first did somehow make you confirmed town. That would sure make this game a lot easier  So that everyone knows, the only players I know in the game are scott and NHM. I tunnelled scott pretty hard in the game we played together (Holy Guardians) but he was actually town. I null read NHM in HGand he was mafia, then town read him in Himalayas and he was town. I've also chatted a fair bit to HTS, but I don't know how she plays mafia. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
My opinion on the ideal town environment is that it is one where everyone contributes, but nobody spams. The best way for townies to get town-read by other townies is to be active, to discuss things and to give your opinion freely. If you're lurking as town, you're actively hurting your own team. Even if you don't say much and make it to the later rounds, and even if you solve the game, you're an easy mislynch if your filter is only one or two pages long. However, at the same time, too much back and forth leads to the thread becoming unmanageable for players with less time -- essentially allowing mafia to hide in amongst the noise. I don't want to over-traffic cop, and I'm hopeful it's not going to be a big problem this game, but ... there it is. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
/spam ensues /facepalm | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
As to why NHM thinks what I said is scummy, I'm guessing because I was a lot more passive at the start of the last two days. That was because Holy Guardians (HG) was my first ever game and Himalayas was the spam fest. This time I feel like I can usefully contribute at the start, at least to trying to set up a good town environment. I'm not sure that much of what has happened so far is alignment indicative. I agree that Half The Sky's thread entry was a little odd, but I think the opening posts are almost always a little strange ("hi, I'm town" the only sensible thing VT's know, and saying that doesn't move things forward). I think NHM is probably just pressuring me with his vote, although his approach to posting in the thread is a lot different to how he has posted since the game started. I appreciate noobking backing me up re the anti-babble stuff, but not sure that's particularly alignment indicative either. I'm keen to hear from all the people who haven't spoken yet, honestly. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..) | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
@Scott Where are your thoughts following your reading of the thread? We want to hear from you. Don't make me tunnel you again | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
I also want to say that if I say something below that makes me sound mean about your play (and you're town...), please remember that I'm just scum-hunting like you. Don't take it too personally. First, I am scum-reading Moosy. So far I have felt that each of his posts is underwhelming or scum-leaning. I had typed up a long post by post analysis, but I don't want to detract from my main point, so I'll focus on that. Look at his seventh post, which is here. This makes absolutely makes NO SENSE from a town perspective. Moosy says that last game he was town and was town read. Getting town read as town is the second most important thing a townie can do (after scum-hunting, obviously). If everyone agrees you're town, it means that the mafia have less places to hide. It also gives your reads more weight (because people don't think you're lying to them), and finally if you're VT then it means the scum have to choose between lynching you and trying to find blues. If they go for you, then you're giving your blues another turn to work, which is obviously a massive advantage for town. So, with that in mind, why on earth would you want to change your playstyle??? If I was townread last game, I would try and do EXACTLY the same thing again. I do not buy the excuse that he's just changing up his play. There's no reason to abandon a winning formula (unless you care more about your meta than winning, which no serious player should). Also, the rest of his filter thus far is just agreeing with people, asking questions and shitting on my post about spam (disclaimer: possible OMGUS on my part here). I would lynch Moosy today. I am also scum-reading NHM and scott, at least for now. I've hinted at this above, but basically, NHM's initial reaction to me was strange (calling me "this guy" having been friendly to me before the start of the game). And voting for me after all I'd done was mildly traffic cop seems really really weird, PARTICULARLY because NHM was in Holy Guardians, where we D1 lynched Kickstart essentially for traffic copping. Also, in Himalayas NHM was super constructive and friendly, and his posts were easy and flowed nicely from both a logic and a tone standpoint. This game, it's been the opposite so far. I'm scum reading scott because he said he was going to "re-read" the three page filter this game has so far, but then never game back. That's a massive scum tell to me. When someone claims that RL problems are keeping them busy, but they are plainly free enough to touch base into the thread, more often than not they're trying to keep their face in the thread without actually saying anything of merit. Some shorter points, because this has already gone on long enough: - KSC is town read for me, as it looks like he's pulling the same Chezinu crap that Onegu and ritoky love. That said, if he doesn't come in with some stronger plays then he'd be a good candidate for a d2 or d3 lynch - I do not want to take an Onegu clone into Lylo and lose on a coinflip mislynch AGAIN (it would be the third time in a row :-\) - I'm town reading TJH at the moment. Some people have criticised his case on Grokken (here), but I actually read it as an honest attempt to make a scum case despite the early stage of the game. If nothing else, it got Grokken to come in and post, which was definitely a pro-town result. (Disclaimer: He said nice things about me, so could be pocketed a little). - I put together a long post poking what I thought was a hole in HTS' logic, but it actually turned out when I read it again that her logic was sound. I might be biased because I like HTS out of game, but I'm town reading her atm. She seems to be posting in a thoughtful and nuanced style. That said, it's all been a big marginal at the moment, so I'll expect her to get more substantive as we move forward. - Town reading n00bKing, as his reads are similar to mine and also I liked his explanation of his NHM vote. And I REALLY like his case on Moosy, since it's the same as mine. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 12 2015 12:19 Half the Sky wrote: I don't think I agree with this sentiment TJ. I think I know what Fidei is trying to achieve with the question, but I'll let him sort it out. Thanks HTS. I can feel the pocket already! :-) @TJH Two reasons for that post really: 1. One of my favourite ways to try and exonerate falsely accused scum is to judge their reaction to being pressured/tunnelled. In Holy Guardians everyone wanted to lynch a player called Chocolate for the first three days (and we did lynch him like d3 or d4). But I actually believed his town claim just from the emotional way he defended himself. I totally agree that this is never going to be conclusive, and it's only one piece of a big and complicated jigsaw, but there it is. 2. I get a bit ... emotional about scum hunting. People who played with me in HG will remember some of the posts I made when town mislynched Chocolate (there was some swearing ha). Basically, I can get a bit carried away. I would still ask that question again, I think, but you're totally right to call me out on the way I phrased it. That said, given Moosy's incredibly lacklustre response to it, I'm glad I did post it. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
That said, I wonder if there will be mod-kills/replacements for the people who haven't posted at all? Does anyone know what usually happens in these Newbie Mafia games? | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 12 2015 08:33 silentwarrior wrote: Ok, so my first scumread when reading was NydusHerMain. First it was that she voted for fidei, for a post which i feel was very towny. She then didn't explain herself, and hasn't posted anything since that. I will be interested to hear what she says about that when she returns. I also found some of what moosy said suspicous, but most of that has already been said by noobking, The most scummy thing to me was that he said he wanted to change his play, then wondered how someone could read that as. If you are town one game and then make a point to say that you change your play, then logically you will play as mafia. Silent's two posts got lost in the mix a little, but I want to just flag them up. I know this is a newbie game, so maybe people are just giving them a pass because he's new, or it could be that people were expecting him to continue his train of thought. However, on their face, these are incredibly poor posts. First, he apologises for being late to the thread (being nervous and apologetic can be a scum-sign), then he proceeds to parrot points that have all been made in exactly the other way by other people. If you read them both again, there is not an original thought in them. Second, he makes them and then retreats back into the shadows. I'm not going to full on scum read him because, as I said above, he's new and so may just be honestly struggling for something new to say. I know I felt the same way in my first game. Still, this is a troubling start and he's going to have to improve to avoid drawing my attention later on. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
I give you a slight town read for the way you are thinking, even if I don't agree quite with where you end up. Also, am I right in thinking that English is not your first language? (If it isn't, it's still a hell of a lot better than my Dutch, believe me - and this is coming from someone who once dated a Dutch girl for six months). | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
So what I'm saying is, get out of your 'cabin' (?) and help me solve this game! | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
And more than that, you know fine well that there's no value in you just throwing out scum reads. You're never going to get them lynched without actually explaining why what you've pointed out is scummy. It's painfully obvious that the population in this game is much newer than other games, so you can't just throw out comments like that and expect everyone to know what you're talking about. Also, can you give us any insight as to whether you're pulling the Chezniu/Onegu card, or not? | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
Re Chezinu/Onegu, I don't want to say yet because I'm not sure if Kelsier is actually playing it or not. If he is, it kind of ruins it if I explain it. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 13 2015 01:06 MoosyDoosy wrote: I have no thoughts. It's more interesting to have people kill an obvious townie and facepalm as a reaction afterwards. XD Moosy if you aren't going to defend yourself, you're gonna get lynched. If you're town, it's your duty to defend yourself. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
##Vote: MoosyDoosy | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
##Vote: Sulfurus | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
1) I don't think it necessarily reads that way; and 2) I don't think we should place too much weight on what he said, since technically he shouldn't have said anything. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
For what it's worth, I agree that it's more likely than not that Moosy is town. The chance of both wagons being mafia d1 has to be pretty remote, given that there were plenty of policy lynches (NHM and Scott) that definitely could have gotten traction, but didn't. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 13 2015 21:40 Half the Sky wrote: But Fidei it really does not happen often, just above a quarter of the time (the actual figure is in the database somewhere but it's something like that). That's okay, I don't mind you carrying me in DOTA *and* in mafia :D | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 13 2015 21:39 Half the Sky wrote: Yes, twice, once as each alignment, though. Can you tie Sulfurus to anyone else, maybe? I guess that's what you are asking? I was more wondering whether there were any specific things that people have noticed about d1 lynch games, which might be useful here.. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
I'm going to take the bullet for you, bodyguard style | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
/sigh ... Kidding. Welcome TT! | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 14 2015 07:54 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Surprised they actually went after Kelsier. At least it confirms my worry that he jumped on Sulfurus as scum to try and assure his own safety; I was just about to post about that, especially since I had a totally unjustifiable scum meta read on him. By the way, TJH isn't scum to me. He was an early bird on the Sulfurus scum train. That won't be enough to make me think he's town, but it is enough to give me pause before lynching him Day 2. Not ready to jump on that train. ??? TJH actually said *nothing* about Sulfurus, except adding him at #2 to his 'scum list' out of nowhere, and then being angry we didn't lynch Moosy. He voted for Moosy. To say he was "an early bird on the Sulfurus Train" is just totally wrong. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
1. His entire filter is filler and waffle. He defends Grokken, but then backtracks from giving a read.he promised to give his reads, then didn't. 2. He talks a bit about the difficulty of getting good reads in the first day, then says he wants to flush out lurkers but not vote for them. 3. He apologises for being inactive but then does nothing about it. 4. This is a bit of a stretch, but I think it makes most sense for a more experienced player to NK Kelsier. Assuming Mafia were scared off NKing HTS or n00b (both obvious medic saves), why go after Kelsier, unless you knew he was a strong player/knows he knows your meta. 5. The total lie he just told about TJH. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 14 2015 08:12 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Filler and waffle is over, I've started making legit posts again. TJH wasn't a lie, I just misread the filter page. My inactivity is also clearly over. Your first "legit" post is a total rehash of everything that has already been said on Moosy. And at the end you even say you don't even know if he's scum, you just want him out of the game?? I'm always down for policy lynching lurkers/people you don't want to take to Lylo early. But we now have a contested vote flip which STRONGLY indicates Moosy is town. Yes, he's clearly a destructive town, but town nonetheless. I think you're Mafia. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
7. You joke vote Kelsier early (NAI) in the game thread. But then you don't vote in the voting thread, and your excuse is that you thought you'd already voted (ie you thought your vote in the game thread stood). Firstly, that's stupid and surely not realistic from a player who has ever played before (hello 11k posts). But secondly, and more importantly, your first vote WAS A JOKE VOTE!! You never pushed Kelsier or really did anything else all of D1. You clearly didn't actually think he was scum, yet you thought you'd left your vote on him and you were okay with that? Please. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
##Vote: Ghandi | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 14 2015 09:13 MoosyDoosy wrote: I decided not to do it since n00bKing was right. There was >1% chance I was gonna die. It's better for Mafia to keep me alive since I'll attract people who are tunneled like Ghandi while I'm not doing anything for town right now besides my initial trap. I still have my thoughts but I prefer to keep them to myself until I find a slip. Just say what your thoughts are, for the love of Christ! All this crap you CONTINUE to spout is driving me up the wall. All of the most vocal town players have you as town now, but your continued refusal to actually participate meaningfully in the game makes you easy lynchbait later on. If you're town - which I think you are - then you are actively hindering us at this point. Please think about that, and then give us your reads and generally just buck the hell up. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
Town: Half The Sky - She started the Sulfurus wagon that nobody else was on, when we were happily about to lynch Moosy. Also, from a meta perspective, I don't see a scum HTS bussing a noob team mate when there was absolutely no reason to do so. Strong Town-lean: N00b - Again, I don't see any reason for n00b to start pinging out a scum buddy this early, particularly not where the vote circumstances were so close. Unless the scum team includes Moosy, I don't see a world in which n00b is Mafia. Town-lean: Grokken, WonnaPlay, Silent - I think we're going to struggle on these three because English isn't the first language for at least two of them, and they're all being pretty quiet. That said, from their filters, I don't see any particularly strong reason to scum read any of them. Their posting has read naturally (other than Silent's atrocious early posts, which I already flagged). That said, the all really need to up their games, as they will make reasonable lynch-bait as the game moves forward. Moosy - This guy is driving me nuts. His play makes no sense whatsoever, from any perspective. He constantly promises reads then does not deliver, and is generally utterly useless. However, I think the vote outcome at d1 is pretty compelling. Sulfurus was indifferent to his death, when if it was a bus I think he would go for the town cried and bus properly. Scum lean: TJH - HTS covered this already, and it's clear at least a fair few people agree. This biggest indictment on him is his randomly including Sulfurus on his scum list without explanation, then being so indignant not only about the vote counting, but also about the vote in general, even though we hit scum. Scott - Scott is an absolutely worthy policy lynch right now. We've bought a day with out d1 lynch, and I refuse to take someone with Scott's filter forward towards LYLO. Not only is it atrociously short, but it's also devoid of any meaningful content at all. It has been four days, bro, and even the guy in Geneva (TT), the Swede and the Netherlander have been able to get their thoughts out. NHM/TT - I was scum reading NHM for both general inactivity and his weird thread entry, voting for me and also referring to me as "this guy" when we'd been bantering just before game start. TT has also been meh this far, but I might leave it to HTS to give me a good read, since I tunnelled TT so hard the last game we played together. Scum: Ghandi - his last post was like a roller coaster. His town lead on me was totally rational because he is right, everyone else has him as neutral and I think me calling him out is towny (but then I'm biased, obviously). But then he goes on to say that TJH is a good lynch to figure out my alignment, which is laughable because 1. Everyone is town reading me and nobody is discussing my lynch, and 2. shouldn't we be lunching people because they're scummy? Lynching someone everyone has a scum read on to give you information about someone everyone has a town read on is just bizarre. Then he finishes by saying he doesn't even want to vote for his scum read, because there isn't a wagon on me yet. WTF? At work now, but I'll keep up to speed through the day. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
). | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 14 2015 19:20 Tictock wrote: Stuck over by the Z gates since its international. Was looking for a charging station for my gameboy but dont have the right voltage adaptor... Hopefully there are some decent movies on the flight. On the way out here I watched the entire Hobbit trilogy, was kinda nice to see all 3 movies in one sitting. You can buy adaptors in terminal 2, so I'm sure you can dig them out in terminal 1 if you look hard enough... | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 14 2015 19:32 Tictock wrote: And pay Airport prices for Electronics? No thanks. Currently posting on an iPad which has several games on it plus I have a book I have yet to crack open, I also am smuggling a large quantity of swiss chocolate, so if it comes to it I can break into that and ride the chocolate high all the way home :p Become a lawyer, get paid, buy airport electronics. Three step plan for life success bro. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 12 2015 05:37 n00bKing wrote: If the vote were a joke, I'm not sure what about it is supposed to be funny. Like...what's the joke? And my joke votes wouldn't go in the voting thread, and that one is in the voting thread. If you want to see a fake vote, you can look at the one on me from Sulfurus. He wastes space with a fakecheck and a fakevote, and then wastes more space by backreferencing them. That's all you get, from his first two posts. His third (and thus far, final) post is him essentially telling Moosy to "do stuff" without actually doing stuff himself. We get roughly the same amount of value from Kelsier's posts, in which he tells people to "start the game" without actually doing anything that would get the game going. If either of Kelsier/Sulfurus are town, they've already got a headstart on being useless town. Okay, so why the vote on NHM? Two reasons. 1) At the time that NHM votes, there is only ONE player who has really expressed any interest in progressing the game. Fidei86. He was the only one (to that point) who had made a legitimate, "let's start thinking about the actual game itself" type of post. And that is who NHM chooses to vote against: the one player who showed an indication that they might be taking the game seriously. 2) The other reason should not be revealed yet. @n00bking Did you ever post your response to your point at paragraph 2? If you did, could you link/reference me? If you didn't, can you say now? | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
(Well, I am at least ). | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 16 2015 05:59 Tictock wrote: In the off chance that we are on the complete wrong track here I have a tinfoil hat theory that might become relevant later. 1 Hour to go and still no sign of TJ... Are we all happy with the choices we have made today? Also... that mind-meld from Hts and n00b. Exactly my thoughts on GE's post there so I'm thankful for not having to articulate them ^.^ ^this | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
 GG. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
I'm really sorry about yesterday all, I sort of burned out on the game a little bit after I made the Ghandi post and everyone just went along with it. I thought it was all in the bag ... Clearly not. I'm going to start psyching myself up over the next couple of hours, then attack the game at lunch/this evening. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
BTW, my tinfoil hat world involves you and n00b being the scum team. But honestly, I think if that's the case then we could just GG now :-) | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 16 2015 08:11 TJHuggins wrote: I reviewed the past few days last night but didn't have time to make a big post. I was going to make one today before the day ended but got home late. I would have voted for Grokken. I think Ghandi was a mistake. On page 30 now, but just want to flag up this post, which came AFTER Ghandi flipped town. This post might win the "no shit Sherlock" award of 2015. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 16 2015 08:34 Tictock wrote: TJ might be a good person for Medic to visit tonight... Just sayin. And this from TT will win the "Derp" award. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
My first thought is that it is staggering how much of it is taken up by HTS and n00b. For reasons that have been set out at length, I'm convinced HTS is town, and I agree with HTS that the Sulfurus wagon was as pure as snow. I point this out only because if both of them are still alive at LYLO, I think people should (1) try and get their autographs/shake their hands and congratulate them on one hell of a game, and (2) lynch the living shit out of them. Until we get there, however, we should leave it. They are both clearly extremely strong analysts and if they are not mafia, mafia simply cannot afford to leave them alive through the mid-game. The only thing dissuading them is probably the threat of a medic check (which leads me to think that I'm likely the NK tonight. I hope not though.) I've written notes on everyone, but honestly I think the scum team is somewhere in Scott, TickTock, TJH and WonnaPlay. Starting with Scott - the argument is pretty simple. He has mostly AFK'd through the game and he has contributed literally nothing. Ticktock tried to compliment him on the weird copy-paste / colour thing he did, but I just read that as being extremely half-assed. TickTock has said a bunch of weird things. Top amongst those is wanting to get a medic save on his most scum read player. I'm also still upset that he said that my vote on Sulfurus was somehow ninja, when I telegraphed it a mile in advance. Finally, his voting on Scott then coming off was just bizarre. I don't see a reason to move off a scum read and onto someone you'd been town reading at certain points, just to "make things interesting". The TJH lynch has been explained at length, and it's almost certainly the correct one. I stopped recording points on him when I got to #7. Also, whereas Ghandi was still trying to solve the game all of D2, TJH did nothing constructive at all. WonnaPlay is a bit more out of left field, as nobody is scum reading him at the moment. But I think he has been very scummy, for the following reasons: 1. His first list post was just god awful. I've learned a lot about newbie mafia recently from playing a text game with my real life buddies, and one of the classic newbie mafia tells is a list that actually says nothing. LINK. Look in particular at how none of his thoughts actually result in reads, and most end up at a neutral conclusion. The thread was just starting to pick up at that stage, and he may have just felt like he needed to post something. 2. He come back in after the D1 vote and said he would have gone for his top scum read, KSC D1. Fair enough. However, when it comes towards the end of the day, the two wagons were MD and Sulfurus. If I'm town and I've got a choice between a null read and my number two scum read, I'm hammering my scum read every single time, and I'm definitely not just wasting my vote on a third party. 3. He votes on TJH, despite there being rumbles of voting on both of his top scum reads, GE and Scott. And this was when the vote was getting somewhat close. His last post is a little better (in that it actually seems to be an attempt at reasoning). And while I was writing this, I did come across some things that I initially thought were slips, but actually made sense from a town perspective. Still, of the Grokken/Silent/Wonna triumvirate of "meh", he's the worst. The other two just sound very town-y to me. Having finished that exercise, I'm not really sure it was worth it. I don't think there's any way that the TJH wagon comes off the rails tomorrow, and I think that is definitely the right move. I'm going to head home now (I stayed in the office to do this work), but I may not make it home before the Day post. If I day, GGWP all, and say something nice about me at my funeral/NK WIFOM debate. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
Yeah okay, so it's a crappy reason, but nobody else has said it yet. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 17 2015 07:04 n00bKing wrote: ##Vote: TJHuggins Who got roleblocked? I did not get roleblocked. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
And your read on Scott has been similarly all over the map. As far as I can see your only reason for town reading him is that he posted that vote count block with the Sulfurus wagon in green. Except he WASNT the first person to say that. N00b and HTS both either said it or heavily implied it, as did KSC. It was hardly the keen insight you make it out to be (and it's another of your half-truths, which are becoming irksome). You have made reads on other people, I agree. I actually like your case on SW (whose filter I am pretty meh on. My comments on his first two incredibly poor posts aside, I thought he had done a fair enough job for a new player. However I totally accept that I could be giving him a pass on that basis alone, so I will re-read his filter next). Overall I would describe your posting as going at 100kph in a 40kph zone. You're shifting your reads on AFK players based on tiny shreds of evidence, or on nothing at all. You also were "reluctant" to town read me at first for no real reason, then you later moved on to say that the entire Sulfurus wagon was pure, again with no new evidence whatsoever. Look, you're a strong player. So I know you won't get offended when I say that I just don't like your approach to this game. If you're town, then clearly we just view the game differently. But I am inclined to continue to scum read you. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
Oh, and something I just thought of - HTS' case on Sulfurus was incredibly strong. I'm ashamed of myself now for not spotting what she did, because it was incredibly chronic. I really need to go back to D1 and look at who had the chance to read and consider the wagon, but decided to go elsewhere. Because either they are misguided town or scum. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
For someone who claims to be the greatest player ever to descend from heaven and treat us to his presence, he missed an absolute gimme. I don't buy it. I think he's scum and we will be lynching him next. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
##Vote: TJHuggins | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
SW doesn't say anything about WP at all (except to list him as neutral in his reads list). WP does touch on SW in his 'mega' post, but it all ends up nowhere. Later, when responding to a point that Scott made on SW, WP deflects it back into a, now that I think about it, extremely contorted point (I can't c&p on my phone, but basically Scott pointed out something SW said and WP said "oh so you're saying now we should lynch you." It makes perfect sense for a newbie scum pairing to interact like they are. Also, neither of them have really contributed much by way of original thought (it has almost all been parroting), and both of them have filters shorter than one page. I need one of my town homies to give my thinking a critical look though. Given that I'm now basically scum reading five players (TJH, TT, WP, SW and Scott (Scott because I never forgive lurkers, and because he has been useless)), I've clearly gone quite clearly wrong somewhere. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
Also, with that, it means that I was totally wrong on my TT read. Sorry buddy :-( | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 18 2015 09:13 MoosyDoosy wrote: @Half the Sky, what do you think of Fidei86 vs Tictock? I'm interested in your opinion on it. I would ask n00bKing but I trust your reads more while I trust n00bKing more for his association cases. If you'd been through Holy Guardians, you'd be terrified of TickTock too. He literally was like Teflon that day. Think Holyflare, but without all of the emo stuff that HF pulls. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
1. The circumstances of TJH's claim are just utterly bullshit. He is universally read as scum, but doesn't claim as soon as he has his red check after N2. I don't think there's any way that we would believe him over the inevitable counter claimer, and he can't of thought we would either. 2. However, there has to be some pretty serious panic in the scum team. With Grokken green checking MD and TT, and with me, n00b and HTS all pretty likely to be town, they had to make a play. The claim alone isn't the play here. They need a way to buy some serious town cred, and the only way for them to do that is to have TJH attempt to bus his partner. They were hoping that people would conclude that SW was almost certainly town. That has already worked a little bit. 3. If, for some strange reason, we actually had believed TJH's claim, then he would be pretty well confirmed cop. We'd then lynch the cop. Yes, at that point TJH is in a bad place, but he would have had the chance to get two more NKs and hopefully get rid of town leaders who would be able to nail him to the mast. It's pretty YOLO, but it's not like scum have many avenues left. If our TJH lynch is correct, we could basically just lynch all of the non-town circle in order and still win. That, and TT's case on SW was good and now that I know he's town we know he has no other agenda. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
Looking at the evolution of his reads, it's totally bogus. He solo votes on NHM N1. He then town reads TJH for putting Sulfurs second on his scum list, but as discussed, that's actually a massively scummy thing to do. The crucial part, next, is that he does this massive big long post on Ghandi, presumably in order to make sure that town stays on the GE wagon. He doesn't say ANYTHING else about TJH at all. But then, with literally no explanation, he moves TJH down into his 'scum' category, despite TJH having said basically nothing between SW's first read of him as town and then. I couldn't have solved this game without the following people: HTS - so glad I was town with you. I think if you had rolled scum, it would have been GG. n00b - I won't eff with you I promise Grokken - Bro, you did a nice job as cop, checking exactly the right people and trying to help town without making yourself a target for NK. Props. I'm very impressed. You've got a bright future here. TT - Buddy, what can I say. I'm sorry about the things I said yesterday. You were the first one on the SW wagon, and without you this wouldn't have been possible. TL;DR If I can see this far, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
Lol. If anyone actually needs me to explain why that thread re-entry is 100% mafia, then I will. But I think you're all smart enough to figure it out for yourselves. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 18 2015 19:45 silentwarrior wrote: Oh, wow. A lot happened while I was gone. First, really disappointed that you guys actually believed TJH. You didn't find it convenient that the guy who is set to be lynched with the most votes by far is dt and has red check on next likely lynch? And he dosen't claim until it is evident that he will be lynched? Still can't believe you guys did that. Btw, thx grokken for claiming to save me. Okay, I just can't restrain myself from making this post, because it's such a gimme: 1. This post is a total distortion of what happened. Nobody straight up believed TJH's claim. Lots of people (TT, for example) said that the claim was bullshit straight off. HOWEVER, if you don't have the necessary counter-claims, the correct play from town is to lynch the red check 100%. If the red check is off, you then lynch the false-cop. But you always lynch the target first, because then you don't run the risk of accidentally lynching your cop. 2. Nowhere in this post does SW express any actual claim to town. He berates town for believing TJH's claim, and he says thanks to Grokken, but he doesn't actually try and move the agenda forward or even hint that he might be town. 3. He's riled. Mafia get riled when they are close to being caught. They just can't help it. I've seen it time and time again, in real life mafia and in forum mafia. 4. Specifically, this is the first time that we've seen SW post this directly. Everything else has been pretty bland, but this has real fire to it. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
I don't think anyone came out and said they straight up believed TJH's claim. Lots of people displayed skepticism. N00b said that he wouldn't have moved his vote anyway. HOWEVER, as I explained above, good town players should absolutely move their votes onto the cop claimer's red check, as you get the same amount of information as you would if you lynched the cop, but without running the risk of actually lynching the cop. The situation obviously then changes if you get a counter-claim. Here we have a very believable counter-claim coming from Grokken, who plenty of people have been reading as town. Also, everyone is going to move to TJH if they haven't already - we know that HTS is offline and she'll switch 100% when she gets back. So there was no need for you to be angry at all. The fact that you are/were is a massive scum tell, in my opinion. Please don't take this personally - I know that Mafia is a game of lying. Next time maybe you'll roll town, and you can put everything you've learned from being Mafia this game towards being a good town next game. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
I'm convinced that I've now nailed the scum team (well, HTS was first on TJH and TT was first on you). So I need everyone to follow me. And hopefully my posting the way I have will show people just how sure I am. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 18 2015 22:11 Grokken wrote: I have no idea if you're serious, but if you are, these are probably the most stacked teams ever. <3 The fact that you would even entertain the fact that I might be Foolishness is a massive compliment. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 18 2015 22:51 Grokken wrote: You're welcome, I guess. I've never played with Foolishness though, I just heard he was good at mafia. Also english is not my first language and i misinterpreted what you said. I was kind of confused at first and thought you were a smurf account or something. But then I realized you were just using his name cause he is good at mafia. Kinda like calling yourself James "Dendi" Jones to say you're good at dota  I play 4 position support. They call me James "Aui" Jones in Dota circles. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
It's a mystery. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
As Scott would say, don't worry boys, this wagon is hitting Mafia for sure! | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
I went back through the D1 filter and I've pulled together the following links with annotations that document the history of the Sulfurus lynch: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=11#211 - me on page 11 saying that Moosy was a fine lynch but that is rather lynch a lurker http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=13#255 -n00b on Sulfurus on page 13 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=13#257 - my response on page 13 ("I'm down with that") http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=14#279 - my post on page 14 just after Sulfurus' incriminating post but before HTS started the wagon saying I was going to vote for Moosy but preferred to lynch a lurker http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=15#283 - HTS' case on Sulfurus http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=15#290 - me 36 minutes later agreeing with HTS (and I put my vote on then) I was happy to lynch Moosy because his play was ridiculous, but I'd clearly expressed a preference for lynching lurkers before n00b's case on Sulfurus, which was the first one I could find in the thread when I looked back just now. I didn't immediately move onto Sulfurus because not even n00b had, and he didn't really rally people to vote, I read his post more as "this is weird I want to draw attention to this". As soon as HTS made a case to lynch, and voted, I was more than down to follow. Yea, there was totally an element of sheep to what I did. I can't really argue with that. But I think that the sheep was consistent with the sentiment I had expressed before this started ("lynch all lurkers"). As to my D2 inactivity, the honest truth is that it was a combination of factors. Firstly, I was at work a lot (I'm a lawyer in London, and when I get home sometimes I just play dota and go to bed, rather than digesting the thread. Second, I was pretty sure Ghandi was Mafia (I think I got that wagon going, which I feel awful about) and so I was sort of phoning it in. Third, I was moderating a game of Mafia that my friends were playing over Whatsapp, which sucked up most of my non-work and non-Dota time. Re my read on TJH, I recall that HTS made a post after eod 1 about TJH. At that stage I hadn't really paid much attention to TjH (I even town read him for his attack on Grokken). However, I remember thinking that his response to my questions about whether or not he was NHM's boyfriend were really weird, so I said I agreed with her and wanted to hear more. After that, though, I got tunnelled on Ghandi. By the time eod2 came around HTS and n00b, as well as lots of others, had made very compelling arguments on TJH. I probably should have typed up my seven point list, but I was still in the office and it was like 11pm and most of the arguments had already been made, so I just stuck the best and newest one I had in. Re SW, I totally admit my read on him has been all over the place. From memory, I first pinged him for his horrible thread entry, then u town read him for his contributions, then you scum read him and I thought that what you'd said made sense, then I thought that maybe WP and SW were a team because they'd played so similarly, then I saw SW's response to the claim-counter claim bit and was convinced he was the final Mafia. I still am. Those are my thoughts. Basically, for me to be scum, I would have had to realise that Sulfurus was going to get called out early AND that he was going to lurk and then breadcrumb moving off Moosy early, then jump second onto the wagon at a time when there were only two other people leaning on Sulf (KSC moved on to the auld wagon with the same little explanation that I did - is "I'm down"). But one thing that strikes me is that why would scum TJH, who, at that stage, was totally active, not bus as well? TJH stayed on Moosy and is about to pay the price. I hope that, if I were scum, I'd at least give my other scum buddy the same amazing insight I had and give him the chance to come with me. If you don't, you have to think that on Day 1 I basically decided that I was going to have to win the game all by myself. I'm just not that kind of person, honestly. Hopefully this wasn't too rambling. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 19 2015 03:15 Tictock wrote: Oh I forgot I was gonna make a point in my case on Fidei about this... It's not much, and again kinda WIFOM. This was Fidei's only suggested night action N1, if he wanted to make a suggestion why single out a Medic save? Think about that from a town and scum mindset... I mean, you're right. That's all I suggested. And I did it because I really really wanted HTS to stay in the game. I might be biased because I really like HTS and playing with her as town has been a pleasure, but I thought she had the best chance of solving the game. I also did say that I didn't think people should be suggesting cop checks N1. I'm not certain that my arguments were right, and I'd like to hear your thoughts (mostly so if I roll cop in the future, I'll have a better sense of what I should be doing). | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
Still 3/3 on not getting mislynches boiz. Apologies to all the people.i scum read. I particularly feel like a chump for calling my shot on SW and being wrong. Oh well. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
Did you minus all the posts from BlazingHand and Onegu/Tina? :-) | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
Brb got to go gloat in the "why does town keep losing thread" | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On July 19 2015 07:28 n00bKing wrote: Reasonable. Was a lot of help in getting Sulfurus lynched. And when she healed me on Night 2, I think it probably killed whatever motivation the scum team might have had left. lol, right. Just tell them to wait for one of the scum members to fly off the handle when his Mafia buddy gets lynched, and for the other one to get mod-killed. Easy!  As long as the ball gets smuggled over the line, I don't care how it gets there. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
| ||
