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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On June 19 2015 05:30 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:27 Holyflare wrote:
always lynch scummy people not lurkers unless the lurker is scummy in which case you're still lynching the scummy person
lynching active people also gives you incredible information post flip for people's reactions and stances to the wagon whereas a lurker lynch is a massive cop out and people can just free ride it to a mislynch if they are mafia
you say day 1 is the hardest day to succeed and that's because there is no flip information, day 2 would be the same with a lurker lynch You think there are no scummy lurkers in the game? What happened to the boxer read?
On June 19 2015 05:08 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:06 ritoky wrote:
okay from HF's thing i remember the vanishing onegu read and the lack of follow-up on VA stuff which was kinda scummy.
any1 gonna try to convince me on BF, or is that just a wagon full of AFKs? ok the thing is about bf is he was a major major point of contention in the last game the entire game and constantly looked scummy so now i'm getting the willies since i think gb is mafia and he was quite fucking happy to just afk on bf with his hipster only first post read and bf has promised he'd play tomorrow so i'm kindddddd of willing to let it slide especially with this mafia gb trying to throw shit in every direction to people scum reading him and then asking loaded questions where he's prepared the worst/most fake answers ever
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On June 19 2015 05:26 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:24 Fidei86 wrote:
@Kel I'm around, keeping tabs on the thread while I'm at work. For what it's worth, and it's probably not much, I agree with GB's sentiment here. A d1 lynch is pretty unlikely to succeed. In the last game I was in (HG) the top three wagons on d1 were all town. This game has been 20 times less likely to actually find a scum imo, given that we're almost at ninety pages after 2 days. PSA: People, your spam and OMGUS'ing is not helpful. You make it super easy for mafia just to blend in to the noise, and you make it super hard for townies (like me) to actually engage with what's going on. If you have a case, please MAKE IT, then let other people actually read it. Don't just keep spamming back and forth. If you're town, you're NEVER going to convince a mafia that they are mafia - they'll keep protesting their innocence until they are lynched. Same if they're town. The people you have to convince is everyone else, and frankly I'm just kind of turned off by all this.
So, back to GB - he's posting, people can get reads on him, and those reads will only get stronger and more accurate over time. Worst case if we don't lynch him is that he's mafia and we catch him later. However, if we do lynch him, we're missing the opportunity to lynch a scummy lurker. If you let the lurkers live, they just turn the later days into a coinflip for active town. so literally your only reason for wanting to keep GB alive is because there's potentially a better, lurkier player out there? Why don't you read the case on GB instead of using things that are not alignment indicative to get yourself off an actually good lynch? Also it's rather ironic coming from you that we should lynch into the lurkers. I would place you near the top of a lurk list if I had to make one.
That's a fair point, but let me put it to you like this. I work 12 hour days a lot of the time. Sure, I can mostly keep up with the thread. But when it's back and forth nonstop, mostly with partially thought through arguments, BM, off-topic chitchat and otherwise, how are people like me supposed to get an edge in. I made four substantive posts last night on four different people and I don't think I got a single comment on them, really, except one from Brez. When I look at your back and forth with GB, I feel like I basically have to go back to the start of the game to understand where it truly came from, which is 90 pages worth of mostly trash.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On June 19 2015 05:31 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:31 Holyflare wrote:On June 19 2015 05:30 rsoultin wrote:
definitely carol -_- it irritated me no end that all he did was spam LYNCH HOLYFLARE
off a terrible case xP
as town
lol >< *NB I WASN'T A LURKER LYNCH She is talking about the caps lock thing STOP PLAYING STUPID WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU
No but your defence THIS game was that you ALWAYS want to vote on lurker lynches as town whereas that's not particularly the case. If you get intrigued about something you always push them with hell bent vigour. You have not done that in the slightest this game and instead just went for the lurkers until you were forced into a corner and have scum read 2 people that you don't even really care about lynching based on pretty weak reasons.
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On June 19 2015 05:29 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:25 LightningStrike wrote:On June 19 2015 05:24 Fidei86 wrote:
@Kel I'm around, keeping tabs on the thread while I'm at work. For what it's worth, and it's probably not much, I agree with GB's sentiment here. A d1 lynch is pretty unlikely to succeed. In the last game I was in (HG) the top three wagons on d1 were all town. This game has been 20 times less likely to actually find a scum imo, given that we're almost at ninety pages after 2 days. PSA: People, your spam and OMGUS'ing is not helpful. You make it super easy for mafia just to blend in to the noise, and you make it super hard for townies (like me) to actually engage with what's going on. If you have a case, please MAKE IT, then let other people actually read it. Don't just keep spamming back and forth. If you're town, you're NEVER going to convince a mafia that they are mafia - they'll keep protesting their innocence until they are lynched. Same if they're town. The people you have to convince is everyone else, and frankly I'm just kind of turned off by all this.
So, back to GB - he's posting, people can get reads on him, and those reads will only get stronger and more accurate over time. Worst case if we don't lynch him is that he's mafia and we catch him later. However, if we do lynch him, we're missing the opportunity to lynch a scummy lurker. If you let the lurkers live, they just turn the later days into a coinflip for active town. Lynching lurkers Day 1 isn't optimal play when you can lynch scum imo. ... I mean, that's obviously true (to the extent that it's basically a truism). My point is that I don't think we have a very good chance of catching a scum today. This thread has been a dumpster, where most people who aren't involved in the OMGUS/tit-for-tat are probably just finding their strongest town read (for me it's Rsoult btw) and sheeping them. But at least if we lynch a lurker, we guarantee that we make it harder for mafia to keep lurking and blending in. I recognise that there's sort of a logical tension here - I'm saying that we should lynch lurkers, but I'm also saying that all this volume of posting is also seriously town-detrimental. I guess I'm just an optimist, as I think people will eventually run out of steam soon and then we can start having some actually quasi-serious discussions.
There seems to be this sort of implication here that what we've had so far is not serious.
What makes you say that the GB lynch has not been substantiated in serious discussion? Like 6-7 people have commented on it and we have a fairly wide array of perspectives and information that went into it. I put a chunk in re: GB's misrepresentation of my play, KSC pointed out how his Breshke case was terrible (speaking of Breshke, where the hell is he?) VA and Shockeyy pointed out elements of his meta that fit to his play here, and HF has provided his own opinions and corroboration of GB's play from previous games as well. Individually I think all of those pieces of information are pretty valuable and strong on their own, but together they are the strongest indication that we have the correct lynch for today.
OTOH when you look at the BF case it's mostly people just whining that they don't like his posting style and his activity. That doesn't really inspire confidence to me.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On June 19 2015 05:32 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:26 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 19 2015 05:24 Fidei86 wrote:
@Kel I'm around, keeping tabs on the thread while I'm at work. For what it's worth, and it's probably not much, I agree with GB's sentiment here. A d1 lynch is pretty unlikely to succeed. In the last game I was in (HG) the top three wagons on d1 were all town. This game has been 20 times less likely to actually find a scum imo, given that we're almost at ninety pages after 2 days. PSA: People, your spam and OMGUS'ing is not helpful. You make it super easy for mafia just to blend in to the noise, and you make it super hard for townies (like me) to actually engage with what's going on. If you have a case, please MAKE IT, then let other people actually read it. Don't just keep spamming back and forth. If you're town, you're NEVER going to convince a mafia that they are mafia - they'll keep protesting their innocence until they are lynched. Same if they're town. The people you have to convince is everyone else, and frankly I'm just kind of turned off by all this.
So, back to GB - he's posting, people can get reads on him, and those reads will only get stronger and more accurate over time. Worst case if we don't lynch him is that he's mafia and we catch him later. However, if we do lynch him, we're missing the opportunity to lynch a scummy lurker. If you let the lurkers live, they just turn the later days into a coinflip for active town. so literally your only reason for wanting to keep GB alive is because there's potentially a better, lurkier player out there? Why don't you read the case on GB instead of using things that are not alignment indicative to get yourself off an actually good lynch? Also it's rather ironic coming from you that we should lynch into the lurkers. I would place you near the top of a lurk list if I had to make one. That's a fair point, but let me put it to you like this. I work 12 hour days a lot of the time. Sure, I can mostly keep up with the thread. But when it's back and forth nonstop, mostly with partially thought through arguments, BM, off-topic chitchat and otherwise, how are people like me supposed to get an edge in. I made four substantive posts last night on four different people and I don't think I got a single comment on them, really, except one from Brez. When I look at your back and forth with GB, I feel like I basically have to go back to the start of the game to understand where it truly came from, which is 90 pages worth of mostly trash.
What you did yesterday was good. In the event that people start to question your alignment they'll see you've put in work and eventually get to discuss it. It's just the way these large games go. Just because you have a preference for thread policing and less conversational style does not mean everyone else has the exact same preference. I for one cannot stand walls of text cases that I end up zoning out of and long paragraphs of posts because it makes it much harder to read peoples overall intent in the long run.
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On June 19 2015 05:34 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:29 Fidei86 wrote:On June 19 2015 05:25 LightningStrike wrote:On June 19 2015 05:24 Fidei86 wrote:
@Kel I'm around, keeping tabs on the thread while I'm at work. For what it's worth, and it's probably not much, I agree with GB's sentiment here. A d1 lynch is pretty unlikely to succeed. In the last game I was in (HG) the top three wagons on d1 were all town. This game has been 20 times less likely to actually find a scum imo, given that we're almost at ninety pages after 2 days. PSA: People, your spam and OMGUS'ing is not helpful. You make it super easy for mafia just to blend in to the noise, and you make it super hard for townies (like me) to actually engage with what's going on. If you have a case, please MAKE IT, then let other people actually read it. Don't just keep spamming back and forth. If you're town, you're NEVER going to convince a mafia that they are mafia - they'll keep protesting their innocence until they are lynched. Same if they're town. The people you have to convince is everyone else, and frankly I'm just kind of turned off by all this.
So, back to GB - he's posting, people can get reads on him, and those reads will only get stronger and more accurate over time. Worst case if we don't lynch him is that he's mafia and we catch him later. However, if we do lynch him, we're missing the opportunity to lynch a scummy lurker. If you let the lurkers live, they just turn the later days into a coinflip for active town. Lynching lurkers Day 1 isn't optimal play when you can lynch scum imo. ... I mean, that's obviously true (to the extent that it's basically a truism). My point is that I don't think we have a very good chance of catching a scum today. This thread has been a dumpster, where most people who aren't involved in the OMGUS/tit-for-tat are probably just finding their strongest town read (for me it's Rsoult btw) and sheeping them. But at least if we lynch a lurker, we guarantee that we make it harder for mafia to keep lurking and blending in. I recognise that there's sort of a logical tension here - I'm saying that we should lynch lurkers, but I'm also saying that all this volume of posting is also seriously town-detrimental. I guess I'm just an optimist, as I think people will eventually run out of steam soon and then we can start having some actually quasi-serious discussions. There seems to be this sort of implication here that what we've had so far is not serious. What makes you say that the GB lynch has not been substantiated in serious discussion? Like 6-7 people have commented on it and we have a fairly wide array of perspectives and information that went into it. I put a chunk in re: GB's misrepresentation of my play, KSC pointed out how his Breshke case was terrible (speaking of Breshke, where the hell is he?) VA and Shockeyy pointed out elements of his meta that fit to his play here, and HF has provided his own opinions and corroboration of GB's play from previous games as well. Individually I think all of those pieces of information are pretty valuable and strong on their own, but together they are the strongest indication that we have the correct lynch for today. OTOH when you look at the BF case it's mostly people just whining that they don't like his posting style and his activity. That doesn't really inspire confidence to me.
Breshke lives in Australia so it's early in the morning for him atm.
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Argh, I can't read anymore, information isn't getting through my head.
I've defended myself as I could. If you have any questions, feel free to ask and I'll answer them as much as I can.
If you're open to see me from a town persperctive, take a look at the 5 questions I've brought on my filter. You will definetly realise it makes more sense of a play coming from town than from a mafia.
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On June 19 2015 05:32 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:26 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 19 2015 05:24 Fidei86 wrote:
@Kel I'm around, keeping tabs on the thread while I'm at work. For what it's worth, and it's probably not much, I agree with GB's sentiment here. A d1 lynch is pretty unlikely to succeed. In the last game I was in (HG) the top three wagons on d1 were all town. This game has been 20 times less likely to actually find a scum imo, given that we're almost at ninety pages after 2 days. PSA: People, your spam and OMGUS'ing is not helpful. You make it super easy for mafia just to blend in to the noise, and you make it super hard for townies (like me) to actually engage with what's going on. If you have a case, please MAKE IT, then let other people actually read it. Don't just keep spamming back and forth. If you're town, you're NEVER going to convince a mafia that they are mafia - they'll keep protesting their innocence until they are lynched. Same if they're town. The people you have to convince is everyone else, and frankly I'm just kind of turned off by all this.
So, back to GB - he's posting, people can get reads on him, and those reads will only get stronger and more accurate over time. Worst case if we don't lynch him is that he's mafia and we catch him later. However, if we do lynch him, we're missing the opportunity to lynch a scummy lurker. If you let the lurkers live, they just turn the later days into a coinflip for active town. so literally your only reason for wanting to keep GB alive is because there's potentially a better, lurkier player out there? Why don't you read the case on GB instead of using things that are not alignment indicative to get yourself off an actually good lynch? Also it's rather ironic coming from you that we should lynch into the lurkers. I would place you near the top of a lurk list if I had to make one. That's a fair point, but let me put it to you like this. I work 12 hour days a lot of the time. Sure, I can mostly keep up with the thread. But when it's back and forth nonstop, mostly with partially thought through arguments, BM, off-topic chitchat and otherwise, how are people like me supposed to get an edge in. I made four substantive posts last night on four different people and I don't think I got a single comment on them, really, except one from Brez. When I look at your back and forth with GB, I feel like I basically have to go back to the start of the game to understand where it truly came from, which is 90 pages worth of mostly trash.
you're right, and I agree with you. While I would consider you a lower activity poster I actually like the way you think and you pretty much exemplify what I was talking about earlier with respect to activity not being alignment indicative.
In this game I agree that there are some players who are not contributing that much, but like you said some or all of them very well could be town and just be discouraged from posting due to the sheer amounts of content (or filler) being constantly being dumped. That's actually an argument in favor of not lynching players like BF, who post rarely but when they do post you can actually make the argument that from a town perspective the reason that they sound the way they do is just because they have been discouraged from posting.
I think the only legitimately scummy lurker I would consider lynching right now is Onegu, but that's less because he's lurking and more because he actively admitted that he had a town read on LS but is still wasting his vote by leaving it on LS.
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On June 19 2015 05:37 GlowingBear wrote:
Argh, I can't read anymore, information isn't getting through my head.
I've defended myself as I could. If you have any questions, feel free to ask and I'll answer them as much as I can.
If you're open to see me from a town persperctive, take a look at the 5 questions I've brought on my filter. You will definetly realise it makes more sense of a play coming from town than from a mafia.
Are all the mafia on your wagon? If you had to pick 1 person as mafia who is not on your wagon right now, who would it be?
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okay okay okay
enough
we don't need this wbg/fidei sidebar. if you're trying to get reads on each other save it for night
the time for pokes and prods and spam and shitfights is past, ne?
wbg, either your most concise post on the case against gb, please, or better yet break it down for me in short bullet format so i can see if it matches what i see when i dive gb
the other wagon is bf...and maybe ls?
main points against them if they've changed but i'm pretty sure i've caught up as it is on those two
i don't want to see any more talk right now about anyone you don't want to ACTUALLY LYNCH this day phase, and please cut out the sidebar conversations
thank you -_-
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Well, I suppose I didn't mean that it wasn't serious, just that it isn't helpful. People need time in this game to re-read and re-consider posts, and to think about what people have said. I don't think that's what we have at the moment. No doubt somewhere in these pages there are some mafia slips, but we're likely going to miss them in the sheer volume.
That said, I'll go back and look over the GB debate again, since I should probably develop an opinion on it if it's all we're going to fight about for the next week ^^. I don't suppose I could be super lazy and ask you to give me a useful starting point (preferably one not before page 70, lol).
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On June 19 2015 05:33 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:31 GlowingBear wrote:On June 19 2015 05:31 Holyflare wrote:On June 19 2015 05:30 rsoultin wrote:
definitely carol -_- it irritated me no end that all he did was spam LYNCH HOLYFLARE
off a terrible case xP
as town
lol >< *NB I WASN'T A LURKER LYNCH She is talking about the caps lock thing STOP PLAYING STUPID WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU No but your defence THIS game was that you ALWAYS want to vote on lurker lynches as town whereas that's not particularly the case. If you get intrigued about something you always push them with hell bent vigour. You have not done that in the slightest this game and instead just went for the lurkers until you were forced into a corner and have scum read 2 people that you don't even really care about lynching based on pretty weak reasons.
I didn't feel intrigued in this game
BUMMER
I've even stated that.
I've explained that I didn't feel forced and I could easily NOT bring the case to the thread and survive.
I would never put this much effort against my lynch as scum, either.
I've answered you all I could, HF. Rethink your read on me or lynch a townie.
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@Rsoult great minds think alike :-)
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On June 19 2015 05:39 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:37 GlowingBear wrote:
Argh, I can't read anymore, information isn't getting through my head.
I've defended myself as I could. If you have any questions, feel free to ask and I'll answer them as much as I can.
If you're open to see me from a town persperctive, take a look at the 5 questions I've brought on my filter. You will definetly realise it makes more sense of a play coming from town than from a mafia. Are all the mafia on your wagon? If you had to pick 1 person as mafia who is not on your wagon right now, who would it be?
Breshke
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On June 19 2015 05:39 Fidei86 wrote:
Well, I suppose I didn't mean that it wasn't serious, just that it isn't helpful. People need time in this game to re-read and re-consider posts, and to think about what people have said. I don't think that's what we have at the moment. No doubt somewhere in these pages there are some mafia slips, but we're likely going to miss them in the sheer volume.
That said, I'll go back and look over the GB debate again, since I should probably develop an opinion on it if it's all we're going to fight about for the next week ^^. I don't suppose I could be super lazy and ask you to give me a useful starting point (preferably one not before page 70, lol).
A good starting point would be around page 80, I guess 82 is the most relevant one.
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rsoul i am still upset with you -.-
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On June 19 2015 05:41 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2015 05:39 ritoky wrote:On June 19 2015 05:37 GlowingBear wrote:
Argh, I can't read anymore, information isn't getting through my head.
I've defended myself as I could. If you have any questions, feel free to ask and I'll answer them as much as I can.
If you're open to see me from a town persperctive, take a look at the 5 questions I've brought on my filter. You will definetly realise it makes more sense of a play coming from town than from a mafia. Are all the mafia on your wagon? If you had to pick 1 person as mafia who is not on your wagon right now, who would it be? Breshke
Same case as before?
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GB can you stop completely ignoring my questions and stop ignoring the read I asked to do of me? And don't tell me it's because I have a small filter (wtf kind of logic is that). Tell me why I shouldn't vote for you?
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On June 19 2015 05:41 ritoky wrote:
rsoul i am still upset with you -.-
is this relevant or can it wait until after the day phase?
(if it's about leaving early i apologize, but you know class and speeches and all that jazz  )
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(Final post on this ... WBG I think you might actually have changed my mind on the principle of the thing. I was too tunnelled on LYNCH ALL LURKERS, when I should have been thinking LYNCH ALL THE ANTI-TOWN POSTERS. Not as catchy, but probably more accurate. I totally accept it's possible that bf might be discouraged town. However, my read on him is more based on the things he did say, rather than his promises of returning. So I'm going to keep on him for now. But hopefully after all this you get a slightly better idea of where I'm coming from.)
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EPT
