Noir Mini Mafia: Chapter 3

On April 20 2015 12:58 Trfel wrote:
-growls-

On April 20 2015 19:56 Breshke wrote:
I'm not sure if im ready to be the weak link in this player list haha.

On April 20 2015 22:51 Breshke wrote:


Artanis already trying to pocket me pre game going for that early town read haha



Silent nights means no will posts how am i going to know if you are scum or not?

On April 21 2015 09:05 Trfel wrote:
Hello.

I have a nasty programming project (well, it's actually extremely basic, but I am terrible at programming, so it's driving me insane). I'll check back here when I am done with the project.

I know, activity excuses already.

Good luck, and happy scumhunting!

On April 21 2015 09:09 Damdred wrote:
5 votes to lynch someone oh IML how I've missed you.

Rsoultin isn't being a pita, must be scum.

On April 21 2015 09:11 Breshke wrote:
Morning everyone

Damdy what is a pita?

On April 21 2015 09:20 Palmar wrote:
I'm asleep so it's not scummy that I'm not posting

On April 21 2015 09:31 Breshke wrote:


tentative town read for this post.

On April 21 2015 09:34 Breshke wrote:


Yeah haha all jokes aside in my limited experiance with art ive never seen him mention stats before so him referencing town stats and relating it to this game just seems like a weird way for a scum artanis to open.

This is obviously very weak hence the tentative part.

On April 21 2015 09:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
##vote: waveofshadow
I'm ok with any lynch that isn't me since I need to overtake kita in the not lynched as town percentage tab. Therefore, any lynch that is not me furthers this condition and I support this lynch.
##Vote WaveofShadow

On April 21 2015 10:44 Damdred wrote:
Meh honestly I really hate how you guys throw around botes in this setup can really tell there haven't been enough iml games lately </3.

On April 21 2015 12:00 WaveofShadow wrote:

Have you played with Palmar?

On April 21 2015 12:05 yamato77 wrote:

when has Palmar argued with himself?

or is this someone else you're referencing...?

I'M JUST CURIOUS BTW BEFORE YOU ASK

<3

On April 21 2015 12:06 yamato77 wrote:

only you've even commented on my alignment out of everyone else

wave's post is strange IMO

On April 21 2015 12:12 WaveofShadow wrote:
For the same reason mostly but with not as much...urgency if that makes sense?
Giving a weird early reason to vote you risk drawing attention to yourself as scum even if the vote doesn't matter much/is joking.

And I don't understand your earlier comment. What are you not answering for me? The reason I commented on his alignment is because he voted for me, and I would think it was obvious from my comment that I couldn't tell if he was town or scum yet simply from his vote/early posting.

On April 21 2015 12:16 WaveofShadow wrote:
Need to start somewhere. What did you think it was?

On April 21 2015 12:18 WaveofShadow wrote:
Because if it was IML like I thought, the first person and maybe the second is lolz, but the third brings one dangerously close to being lynched especially if anyone else feels like being 'lolzy.'

On April 21 2015 09:30 Breshke wrote:


ohhh that makes a lot of sense.

Idk rso reasonable just feels so much nicer than logical.

##Vote Waveofshadow

Lets do this

On April 21 2015 12:23 WaveofShadow wrote:

Between yamato and artanis?
Yamato apparently told me he'd vote me (which I don't remember), Artanis gave a real but odd reason. Those two votes are different, therefore different reads. What is so hard to understand?

On April 21 2015 12:23 WaveofShadow wrote:

Between yamato and artanis?
Yamato apparently told me he'd vote me (which I don't remember), Artanis gave a real but odd reason. Those two votes are different, therefore different reads. What is so hard to understand?

On April 21 2015 12:33 WaveofShadow wrote:

Semantics. A real reason as in he typed up a reason in thread whereas yamato's isn't.
Can we move the fuck on?

On April 21 2015 12:35 Breshke wrote:

Yes. What was townie in that post because if you think its townie I assume you agree with it so I don't understand why you are still pushing wave over this?

On April 21 2015 12:54 rsoultin wrote:
^ precisely this, as an answer to your question, bresh

the lynch mechanic is not what he thought it was but his reads are the same lol >< with the exception of his read on you

so of course it's relevant to ask him why he has different reads on two players doing essentially the same thing

On April 21 2015 12:53 Damdred wrote:
Guys seriously this is simple.
bh isn't playing, lynch bh.

##vote blazinghand

On April 21 2015 12:55 WaveofShadow wrote:
I've already explained that rsoul
IVE ALREADY EXPLAINED IT
THEY DONT FEEL THE SAME TO ME

On April 21 2015 13:03 WaveofShadow wrote:
This is the absolute final time.
I'm going to spell it out so it's absolutely crystal fucking clear, and if it's still not enough then just go ahead and lynch me for it or some shit because unless it's going somewhere, this is ridiculous already.

Yamato gave some reason directly referencing something he said to me outside of the game that i don't remember, probably something he jokingly said to me at some point yesterday or the day before...? I don't consider that a reason because it has zero direct reference to anything that occurs within the confines of this game and is directly related to something yamato and I supposedly talked about. As that is the case, he would do it as either alignment since supposedly he said he would do it and therefore is completely alignment UNindicative.

Artanis' reason I have no knowledge of and has no direct reference to me, so I naturally find it a little odder to bring something like that up---it is my opinion that that could draw more attention than something yamato can directly reference to something he and I supposedly did

On April 21 2015 15:20 Damdred wrote:
Well those are EXCELLENT questions you seem to be some form of medium that has stolen these very thoughts from the inside of my head!

Now bh is an interesting case as I'm sure he will come into the thread at a later time and hive some form of excuse of his absence for the first however many hours. But as always his scum meta is to do as little as possible and scrape by on fabrications and afking. And as such him being gone is scummy espe ially while he is active elsewhere.

This part is a bit trickier, trfel as scum in my experience likes to be in the thick of the action trying to shape other peoples reads and causing subtle confusions. Very unlike bh scum game which is more behind the scenes, besides trfels last bit post who h was ok that puts him more towards the bottom of null rather than town.

Breshke is one of the greatest forces of good in the thread amen. Has some of the highest activity good thoughts questions and interacting with everyone he can. Really good town atm.

Look at the strange uneveness that wave uses between arts is and Yamato for instance it caught my eye pretty fast. He is perfectly fine with art and gives art a town lean(later on) for the way he voted for him even if it was silly. Really strange reactions and slight jnconsitincies in how he is playing and interacting push him to this level.

great questions

On April 21 2015 15:26 Damdred wrote:
How can you be satisfied with such a drastic over reaction? Arts is is a great player who sheeped onto what at that point in time a joke vote with a seemingly joke phrase and vote. And wave gives this as a response I don't buy it at all, its over explaining and not really saying anything

On April 21 2015 15:29 Damdred wrote:
Literally it might be one of the worst reasons to town read someone ever. Do scum never do pressure votes or joke votes and then not do much else?

On April 21 2015 15:39 Breshke wrote:


I didn't townread him for the vote i town read him for the reason because it seemed super weird to me from a scum mindset. To add to that when he asked me about how i felt that you disagreed with me he had the exact same kind of thought as me exact i didn't post it because im more cautious calling you town after last game.

Has rfel played more than one game of scum the database only has the student game.

On April 22 2015 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote:
I don't get what it is with games I join lately or if it's just apathy in general or some shit, but games are extremely boring when no one talks.

I'm around for a couple hours if anyone wants to bother.
Thanks for the vote of confidence Palmar.

On April 21 2015 19:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Pretty much. It's something that you have absolutely no reason to post as scum because it doesn't achieve anything, yet when you're town it's something you may say because it was in the back of your mind, a very human response. Actually having thought about it, I could see scum saying it, but I do think it's a lot likelier from town.

Arsoul, why is it bad that someone else explains something I've pinged?

On April 22 2015 03:38 WaveofShadow wrote:
I love that gifs are a thing this game.

I dunno....thoughts on damdred maybe?
I'm pretty underwhelmed.

On April 21 2015 15:20 Damdred wrote:
Well those are EXCELLENT questions you seem to be some form of medium that has stolen these very thoughts from the inside of my head!

Now bh is an interesting case as I'm sure he will come into the thread at a later time and hive some form of excuse of his absence for the first however many hours. But as always his scum meta is to do as little as possible and scrape by on fabrications and afking. And as such him being gone is scummy espe ially while he is active elsewhere.

This part is a bit trickier, trfel as scum in my experience likes to be in the thick of the action trying to shape other peoples reads and causing subtle confusions. Very unlike bh scum game which is more behind the scenes, besides trfels last bit post who h was ok that puts him more towards the bottom of null rather than town.

Breshke is one of the greatest forces of good in the thread amen. Has some of the highest activity good thoughts questions and interacting with everyone he can. Really good town atm.

Look at the strange uneveness that wave uses between arts is and Yamato for instance it caught my eye pretty fast. He is perfectly fine with art and gives art a town lean(later on) for the way he voted for him even if it was silly. Really strange reactions and slight jnconsitincies in how he is playing and interacting push him to this level.

great questions

On April 22 2015 04:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
@Arsoul

Now you make it sound like your comment was in fact serious. What is scummy about what Trfel did there?

On April 21 2015 14:28 Trfel wrote:
On the contrary, that's the sentence that makes the joke. It's weak without it.

Mafia wouldn't bother with suggesting something and admitting that it can't be proved in the same post, this early on, when it doesn't matter like this. Right?

I find it extremely surprising how WaveofShadow reacted to Breshke's vote. As if the third vote is any scummier than the first two on a joke wagon. It just means that Breshke didn't think of it first, that's all. I'm hoping that he did this to generate discussion. However, it seems that WaveofShadow didn't realize that votes are only counted every 24 hours. I suppose his play makes sense with this in mind.

I actually think that this makes WaveofShadow likely to be town, as mafia would have realized this via the scum QT (which you bet he would be checking this early in the game, and with three votes on him). Of course he could fake it anyway, but his posts seem genuine enough (including the frustrated tone), so I kind of doubt that this is the case. And this also falls apart if his partner is inactive. Still, I see this more as a town play. He feels frustrated, not panicked. And trying to make the most of the situation, not trying to save himself.
Not really, mocking me is quite easy. You've proved this time and time again.

WaveofShadow's play does show some inconsistencies (minor), and some things that don't make sense. But I see them being in line with him being flustered over the opening. If this continues, though, perhaps more suspicion is warranted.

Town read on rsoultin just because making a strong townread on her early in the game is super popular
+ Show Spoiler +.

+ Show Spoiler [to rsoultin] +

On April 22 2015 04:57 rsoultin wrote:
so no one wants to talk about truffle's post, hm? xP

##unvote

On April 22 2015 04:19 WaveofShadow wrote:

I mean I guess I overexaggerate the rehashing EVERYTHING because the trfel thing is kinda relevant I suppose so I sort of see what you mean, but the BH things looks super weird because he talks a bunch about him and leaves off with an extremely weak conclusion. And yeah Breshke/me reads.

As far as the sarcasm thing, I really don't put any stock into meta reads anymore whatsoever so I'm afraid I don't really take it into account.

On April 22 2015 05:16 Palmar wrote:
I'm very much ok with my vote

On April 22 2015 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote:
I don't get what it is with games I join lately or if it's just apathy in general or some shit, but games are extremely boring when no one talks.

I'm around for a couple hours if anyone wants to bother.
Thanks for the vote of confidence Palmar.

On April 22 2015 05:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yeah jsut fucking do it already.
Every single game. Literally EVERY game I start i contribute in every possible way I can and people call me scum for it. It's so goddamn silly.

Like...fucking meta but show me one game where i don't complain.
ANY GAME.

On April 22 2015 05:41 Trfel wrote:
I'll talk to you about the truffle post if you want!

I thought that it was a really well-constructed post. Especially the part about why WaveofShadow is town,

On April 22 2015 05:48 Trfel wrote:
Oh, why thank you! I always knew I was amazing, but now I know why!

In all seriousness, what do you make of Blazinghand so far?

On April 22 2015 06:02 Trfel wrote:
I suppose you're right, it's best for me to keep my thoughts about Blazinghand to myself for the time being. I hope that you are curious.

I suppose Artanis looks the most suspicious to me so far.
Why didn't I make the list? Why is he so content to wait? I noticed that Artanis was probing with questions for information earlier, but lately he's dropped off, and now this quote.

On April 22 2015 06:26 yamato77 wrote:

To me, it sounded like Artanis is ONLY going to focus on them today, fuck all else, we lynch them if they don't contribute.

Seems a bit arbitrary to pick those two exact players who are known to be useless as both alignments and narrow the lynch to them ONLY.

On April 22 2015 06:27 Trfel wrote:
Um, you completely missed the point. I don't know why you decided to go there at all.

Why does it matter if one of Blazinghand or Palmar is mafia or not? Either way, it is in town's best interests to scumhunt. There is absolutely no reason to lynch in the first 24 hours, lynch when confident. Let's say we lynch in 72 hours. If we spend the first 24 hours sitting around, waiting for Blazinghand and Palmar, that's 24 hours that could have been spent finding scum. There is no town incentive (other than laziness) to wait for inactives before starting to play the game, really regardless of the deadline.

On April 22 2015 06:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Yes look at all the waiting I'm doing.

On April 22 2015 06:31 yamato77 wrote:
like, the advantage of IML to me is that it's REALLY easy to put pressure on people by just piling a few votes on and making that player respond to them

alignments are generally more obvious as someone is going to get lynched

in a normal game, you really only get the chance to do this to like, one or two people per day

but in IML you can do it to literally every person

sure, we have all the time in the world, but it's stupid to waste it waiting on known trolls like BH/Palmar to play the game

On April 22 2015 06:37 yamato77 wrote:

the point is the threat of the lynch

you use it actively as a tool to force people to play the game

you don't use it passively and hope they play the game

On April 22 2015 06:41 WaveofShadow wrote:

Wasn't the first one, it's this one

On April 22 2015 06:43 yamato77 wrote:

do you think he's town, or something?

Why do you wish to play foil?

On April 22 2015 06:45 WaveofShadow wrote:
That's a gross miscommunication to think that was what Artanis had in mind.
Seriously you think you got hop off yamato's head or whatever it is you do for a minute and think?

On April 22 2015 07:05 yamato77 wrote:
I guess I'm going to be ignored.

I'll play more later.

On April 22 2015 07:24 WaveofShadow wrote:

Yes we know, you keep reiterating it. And you're bored.
Nobody is getting lynch today.

On April 22 2015 10:53 Trfel wrote:
Wait, rsoultin, why did you say this?

On April 22 2015 10:50 Breshke wrote:


I really really like this post. Wave joins artanis in my "can't see lynching" list. If wave is mafia his frustration this game is from him being wagoned early so being on the back foot trying to survive from the get go. The stuff about yamato's push is not really alignment indicative for him even though I fully agree with his view point.

I'm not sure if i can explain this well but the last sentence on rsoul seems like it couldnt come from a scum wave as why would he randomly antagonize someone. Like he is clearly frustrated and if he is frustrated scum he would be trying to make friends not trying to piss people off.



Can you explain why you think he would pick anyone over artanis to push on this game rsoul?

On April 22 2015 11:43 Trfel wrote:
Of course I know about the Palmar one, I was asking about the yamato77 one...

Why did you say that when you posted it? There wasn't much to work with then...

On April 22 2015 11:48 Trfel wrote:
Yes, but I'm still curious.

Basically all he did was make a few jokes, then vote for WaveofShadow, and then say that it was something he said he would do pre-game. I don't see how you could arrive where you did.

Enlighten me?

On April 22 2015 11:51 Trfel wrote:
I see.

I don't feel terribly enlightened, but whatever.

On April 22 2015 12:30 rsoultin wrote:
-shrugs- you can call it defensive if you want. i hate being misrepresented as either alignment, and i already had let it go a couple times before that xP

so give me something not concrete

i can see where you're coming from with damdy...but not so much with artanis, cause that's a pretty weak read lol >< if it's only based on the same posts you townread him for last time you were in the thread

as far as damdy is concerned, trying to get a lynch started with so little time before the 24hr mark doesn't sit well with me...i was actually warming up to him before that

On April 22 2015 12:42 Breshke wrote:


That was my non conrete thing. There 8 players other than me. I'm townreading 4 out of 8 of those players. 2 of the remaining are not involved in the game so difficult to read. The remaining two yourself and yamato have been town reading each other most of the game, does this mean anything? Probably not even if it does I can't use it right now. I just read your filter and will probably read yamatos soon. That is like exactly where I am at at the moment.

Also I had that problem with damdy aswell but then this made me feel better about it

On April 22 2015 12:57 Breshke wrote:


Yeah im bad at scum and my meta is i cant push on people but you arn't using that in context if you are town. Do you have a scumread yourself? No you are pushing BH with me. This is a smaller game and you yourself don't have a scumread so I don't understand why you would try compare this game to my scum meta when obviously if you are town it isn't that easy to find scum this game.

Just coming out of a game where you being scum does affect my reads. I realize im probably biast hence why I was letting it go and trying to egt more information but frankly you are very similar this game to last. You're in the thread commenting on stuff but you arn't actually doing anything.

On April 21 2015 16:36 rsoultin wrote:
Lol if you cant see the similarity between those two reads on artie i dont onow what to tell you...both of you basically said hes town cause his reason for voting was odd...

Like read it when you quote it yeah?

Ive been giving out reads? I still have artie at a scum lean...liked yama's entrance though am a touch leary of all the appeals to me during his argument with wave, so the read is a little weaker now. already said i was inclined to agree with trfel that wave leans town after the exchange...

Beyond that nothing worth discussing xP and all of that is pretty much already in my filter sooooo

On April 22 2015 14:18 Blazinghand wrote:


there's one at the bottom, but if you who are "asleep" since this post aren't gonna take time to read a post I spent all that time working on, then that only reflects poorly on you and does not oblige me to add a second summary to my post

On April 22 2015 14:34 Breshke wrote:


Hmm ok thanks I just havn't really felt the conclusions bit so if you have any specific examples that would be great but im going to be going back and looking anyway.



Yes i saw that but i also saw this which came after


I have no idea why you are being so quick tempered. I'm pushing on you? Great fucking decide if im town or mafia doing it and explain why im wrong or push back on me. If youre town and you think im town yeah it can be frustrating but im allowed to be wrong. If you think im mafia then why do you even care.

Don't give me this pissed off bullshit where you say im trying to get you on tilt, I don't even get where you think id take that path as mafia.

On April 22 2015 11:42 Trfel wrote:
[...]

She's being annoying and commenting on everything, with very high "entertainment" standards. But she's not doing anything interesting herself.

It makes her town.

On April 22 2015 14:39 WaveofShadow wrote:

Really like this post.
Breshke you town bro?

Like....this explanation for the oddness really isn't enough. You go from 'slightly less townread' on yamato to full on scum setting you up, and the paranoia doesn't look real. The rage might be though, and it would be hypocritical of me to assume otherwise.

On April 22 2015 14:54 WaveofShadow wrote:
I dunno if I see scum working so closely together, like ever. And even then as you've acknowledged, bad association read.

And where IS yamato anyway?

On April 22 2015 14:56 Breshke wrote:
Okay rso we can leave it for now like im not going to get anything more from this right now with you that is fairly obvious.

Like im not associating you with yamato. Yes i said youve had eachother as town for a larger portion of the game it doesn't mean i think you are together. I specifically said in one of my posts that i wouldn't be able to use that information. Like I don't think ive mentioned yamato at all this game other than pointing him out with you two town reading eachother but that is only because I don't town read either of you so it is odd to me.

Anyway who do you want to lynch or are you leaving. I don't care if you have explained this before please don't tell me to look into your filter im asking because im trying to move the conversation on and i still don't care about bh's wall yet until he starts doing other stuff aswell.

On April 22 2015 14:56 Breshke wrote:
Okay rso we can leave it for now like im not going to get anything more from this right now with you that is fairly obvious.

Like im not associating you with yamato. Yes i said youve had eachother as town for a larger portion of the game it doesn't mean i think you are together. I specifically said in one of my posts that i wouldn't be able to use that information. Like I don't think ive mentioned yamato at all this game other than pointing him out with you two town reading eachother but that is only because I don't town read either of you so it is odd to me.

Anyway who do you want to lynch or are you leaving. I don't care if you have explained this before please don't tell me to look into your filter im asking because im trying to move the conversation on and i still don't care about bh's wall yet until he starts doing other stuff aswell.

On April 22 2015 15:27 Blazinghand wrote:


So, since bits and pieces of it have been mentioned by others, me gathering it in one place is so offensive to your sensibilities that you refuse to discuss it? Fine, pretend it's not a post and I'm just summarizing thread sentiment, if that's what it takes for you to talk about the best case. I don't care whether or not it's framed as whatever. I don't care what your opinion is of me. I 100% promise that I will talk about other things, like why Yamato77 hasn't responded to the case, for example, but the fact of the matter is, you have a responsibility as a lesser player to follow my lead on this, or, failing that, respond to my case in a way that demonstrates WHY you disagree with the points. You can't just say "oh yeah, it's a narrative, and narratives are bad" or something. That's not even, like, an objection, man. Damdred's thought process _does not make sense_. The fact that you were unwilling to find the summary at the bottom initially doesn't give you a right to have a zealous vendetta against talking to the best player in the game about the best case in the game. Get it together

On April 22 2015 15:25 Breshke wrote:


Sorry i actually didn't see this.

I like skim read through it skipped a few bits in the end/middle. I feel bad on commenting on stuff like that before reading it properly because if bh is town or scum he obviously put a lot of effort into it for me to just come and be like didnt read it here's what i think.

Anyway first off i don't like how it feels like he was trying to push scum on what felt like every single thing that damdred has posted. I don't think if someone is scum that they are scum in all their posts if that makes sense.

Some of the early stuff I think bh had a problem with can be explained by damdred thinking it was standard IML and then being told it wasn't(this is referring to the throwing away vote thing) . I can see how BH would miss this as if you read damdreds filter (I assume this is what happend) and not the game you wouldn't really get the grasp of that.

Then i don't really rememebr much else from it other than the point about him voting artanis after BH came in with his excuse that damdred predicted. I liked this point and it is odd but damdred did say to me that his vote on artanis was trying to make stuff happen so i can see a world where he would push on artanis instead of BH here because more people would react to the artanis push whereas a push on bh would get put down as a plynch

On April 23 2015 00:07 Blazinghand wrote:
Complain about context or narratives all you want, Damdred has never shown a shred of town motivation or logic yo his read progression. If my truth is too much for you then lynch me and behold the spectacle of your incompetence. I suppose the time when one could only be available for five hours per day have passed, even though I have possibly written and thought about this game more than everyone else. I will not bow to your disgusting threats. I will not be coerced into becoming something worse for your twisted ideals.

If I'm alive when I get home I'll save us all. Otherwise, should I die for your ignorance, I will view the departure with as much relief as disgust.

On April 23 2015 00:48 WaveofShadow wrote:

Speaking of deliberately provoking...anyway.

You have a townread on Trfel currently, yes?
How does it jive with Artanis' read and these things here?

On April 23 2015 05:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
Trfel incapable of basic math apparently, or lying.

On April 23 2015 06:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
He scum read Trfel.
And actually as I recall that read is mostly based on meta and contrary to your read soniv kind of interested to see how that plays out.

Also don't quite get that yamato read Trfel.

On April 22 2015 19:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Dunno what to think of the BH post. I think I could make a better one for Yamato, but that doesn't make him scum.

I actually think Trfel is my biggest scumread atm. In LXX, it was extremely difficult to get him to townread me. I literally had to move mountains (still tired) before he stopped being suspicious of me. This game, he randomly decided to get suspicious of me due to that post where I said I'd wait for Palmar/BH, then after a few posts on it he randomly decided I'm a townlean again. I sense a lack of true suspicion in him; it feels like he's just trying to push whatever seems easiest to push at the time. He's also giving off a lot of free townreads which doesn't fit into the suspicious Trfel I've played with in LXX. He feels far too ironclad in his opinions.

##Vote Trfel

On April 23 2015 06:17 WaveofShadow wrote:

I dunno I guess maybe i should appreciate your 100 percent correct t rate on Trfel but it's a pretty nebulous read/concept for me to have to accept in a game based in cases/evidence.

On April 23 2015 06:24 Trfel wrote:
I think that Artanis's scumread of me actually looks good for him. He makes a good point, and that's the sort of read that I expect from him. Would he do that as mafia? Not sure, but I think that he knows that he won't mislynch me this game (or at least, he will need much more evidence first).

I'm still leaning town on Artanis, though is absence is concerning me. Does he agree with the Blazinghand wagon? If not, he should be here and trying to stop it. At the time of his last post, there were four votes on Blazinghand.

If anything looks suspicious, that is it. He doesn't care if Blazinghand is lynched or not.

On April 23 2015 06:30 Trfel wrote:
I take it back, I just have terrible reading comprehension.

Artanis did comment on Blazinghand, first not convinced that he was scum due to his case, and then felt that it was an okay lynch due to the followup. Maybe I need to get my eyes checked.

It isn't a very large or amazing amount of information on Blazinghand, but I suppose I can see it from the perspective who sees an okay lynch, but also sees everyone ignoring what is (in his opinion) a better lynch.

On April 23 2015 00:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I don't like his unwillingness to comment on other things. I don't like his case on Damdred particularly either. As has been said, it's a narrative. Seems like a good chance to flip scum.

I need to do some more work on Trfel and flesh my read on him out but I have to leave for theater in a sec. Will get something done later tonight. Kinda annoyed no one's commented on him since I called him scummy but you though.

On April 23 2015 06:40 Trfel wrote:
It seemed to me that Artanis would be back later to finish his read on me.

Artanis is sort of null, I suppose, given both his semi-weak stance on Blazinghand and not having the thread leadership that I thought he did at a glance.

I expect scum to be among Artanis, yamato77, and maybe Breshke, even though I can't demonstrate that any of them are clear scum yet.

On April 23 2015 06:45 Damdred wrote:
I kinda said all of that and pointed to other games where he did the exact same thing as scum . And everyone called me bad and put me in the meh pile. Its a sad world we live in....sad indeed

On April 23 2015 06:51 WaveofShadow wrote:
It's not the fact that's it's a narrative or even that it's a bad case. It's closer to what you describe rsoul in that he has very clearly not been interested in anything else, and despite the effort he put in (and is constantly boasting about) does not actually seem to care whatsoever.

Are you voting him for attitude though rsoul? Because I can tell you that is very typical BH.

And damdred I actually agree with you here. I can't tell if it's good bad or just weird that everybody shit on BH immediately.

It could simply be that BH is scum and one of the people who didn't bother to say anything about it is s um with him.

On April 23 2015 06:54 yamato77 wrote:
So today, I'm in a good mood.

Sup dudes (and dudette)?

On April 23 2015 06:57 Palmar wrote:
I have no idea whether or not BH is mafia. If you want my opinion on it you'll have to wait a cycle.

But tbh, I don't particularly care, you can lynch him if you want to.

On April 23 2015 07:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Hi, just got home. Anything urgent that needs attention now?

On April 23 2015 07:10 Damdred wrote:
hrmmmm, do you want to lynch someone else besides bh rsoultin

On April 23 2015 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I've posted my reads in the thread already my friend.

I'll work on that soonish. I just feel like the flip from scummy on me to townie on me was far too 'easy' for how I've experienced him in the past. That set alarm bells off, but I haven't had the time to dig into him further yet.

I don't like BH in that I don't think he's done anything particularly townie and done a few things that are bad. I just have no idea if the bad things make him scum. BH is particularly tough to read and I'm not sure it'll ever become clearer in the future so I don't oppose the lynch either. With a few townreads in the thread and him not being one of them I'm fine with his lynch, but am not confident enough in him flipping scum to vote for him at this juncture.

On April 23 2015 07:18 Damdred wrote:


I'm honestly not sure. I don't have much of a secondary scum read Palmar is Null and Artie is on the lower side if not in the leaning section

On April 23 2015 07:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Can anyone concisely explain why they're suspicious of me other than not posting as much which I've already mentioned I would pregame and have done in the last game I've played as well (and flipped town in but is ongoing so shh)?

On April 23 2015 07:26 Damdred wrote:
Yamato looked ok earlier to me, he seemed combative and involved in the thread. I like him still, hes falling off a bit but I still think hes probably town

On April 23 2015 07:27 yamato77 wrote:
alright, so the BH case in and of itself isn't really that bad

honestly, the BH that does this whole martyring thing has been town in the past

I've also seen him be scum and use delay tactics, but is this really a delay tactic?

I'm unsure about this lynch, bros

On April 23 2015 07:28 yamato77 wrote:
I don't like Artanis' post where he comments on the case offhandedly and then votes trfel

but I also don't like trfel calling me mafia for shit reasons and then sheeping the BH lynch

On April 23 2015 07:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
@Arsoul Yeah, I'm aware of that. If he felt any of his reasons weren't good though, I'd imagine he'd have said something along the lines of "I didn't think of that" but your arguments weren't really bringing anything new to the table. I can't imagine that with the strength in the words he was saying he'd be swayed by what you said.

Also, as for your meta read on Trfel... You claimed to have a strong meta read for LS too, then you proceeded to misread him twice when he rolled scum twice. I'm sorry, but I don't hold too much faith in that.

On April 23 2015 07:44 yamato77 wrote:
well, in this situation with the lynch on BH forming, it's definitely possible he just effectively "shelves" his read on me to pull back out at a later date when there is such a juicy lynch hanging right in front of him

so yeah, if it was a complete re-evaluation it would be more understandable but it's sort of a "I can't push this right now, so I won't" sort of thing which is actually not so townie

On April 23 2015 07:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Didn't you catch LS as mafia in his first game too?

I'm not getting high-and-mighty at all. I'm simply pointing out that you've been wrong plenty of times before, so saying "I'm telling you he isn't scum" is not very convincing to me. I need reasons.

On April 22 2015 05:48 Trfel wrote:
Oh, why thank you! I always knew I was amazing, but now I know why!

In all seriousness, what do you make of Blazinghand so far?

On April 23 2015 08:21 yamato77 wrote:

I said it wasn't that bad

Do you really believe ONLY scum BH makes a case like that? I certainly don't.

I don't even like damdred that much this game. I don't really care for his responses to the case either. He essentially came out with nothing.

How was he being obstructive? He argued about his case, sure, but who wouldn't want to defend their piece of work? It's silly to scumread him for believing his read.

What do we really lose by not lynching right now, exactly? I argued against this sort of idea before but only as a means to actually apply pressure. It doesn't mean anything to lynch BH here because he's really only been in the thread to post his case and defend it.

On April 24 2015 09:21 Trfel wrote:
I'm kind of suspicious of the way that yamato77 dealt with the Blazinghand wagon. Does anyone else agree, or am I being tunneled against him?

On April 24 2015 09:48 yamato77 wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/410972-les-mafia?user=Blazinghand&page=16

had 16 pages of filter as town before he was mislynched

yes, blazinghand is capable of astounding uselessness, but he's also capable of that

he literally promised activity, and showed effort in the large case, no reason to rush lynching him

as mafia, it would have been incredibly easy to just say nothing and have his lynch go through, but whatever

gj on the mislynch, folks

On April 24 2015 09:57 yamato77 wrote:

that was before BH had even played

dunno how the two are even comparable tbh

On April 24 2015 10:10 yamato77 wrote:

In the first instance, it's not about BH specifically, it's about the game itself. You must be active with the lynch and try to put pressure on people or it's basically a useless mechanic (IML, that is). Maybe you newbies don't really understand this but I've played a fair amount of IML as both town and mafia so there's that.

The point was, why should we specifically wait for BH and Palmar to play if it's possible that they won't play, even as town? It's both a waste of time and suboptimal play. Artanis was using it as a reason to essentially do nothing.

The BH mislynch was avoidable, because by that time it was fairly obvious that BH actually was invested in the game at least enough to make that huge damdred case. Say what you want about the quality or accuracy of his read, sure, but it was a lot of effort nonetheless. He even went on to defend it against most people in the thread and was visibly offended by people's disregard for his effort.

Essentially, why was it necessary to push the lynch through at that moment in time? Everyone was overly hasty when BH had made it abundantly clear he wouldn't be around to provide more content. Was there some sort of downside to allowing him more time to play? If he's scum and just making excuses as YOUR NARRATIVES SUGGESTED (like how I use that word? yeah it's pretty stupid) he'd just continue to make excuses and not really prove himself town.

HOWEVER, I had reason to believe that an invested BH could prove himself town and even suggested such before the deadline, but no one really seemed interested in discussing my meta read of BH so whatever. You call me scum for it now? I laugh in your face.

On April 24 2015 10:28 yamato77 wrote:

In a regular game, you get 1 lynch every 48 hours. That's it. In terms of pressure voting, you really only get to do that to MAYBE 2 people per day, and that's it.

In an IML game, even this style, you still only get 1 lynch every day, but that day can be both ridiculously short OR incredibly long. By balancing the two well, you are able to pressure vote as many people as you feel necessary before you decide on a real lynch, allowing you to force inactive players to play, cause mafia to make mistakes, and force opinions on multiple targets throughout the day.

Of course, this requires an organized effort by town. You can't have some people just sitting back and coasting along or your plan really falls to pieces. You also can't have blase lynches where town is apathetic. In that way, both Artanis' proposed play (and even his actual play, given his action around the lynch) AND the BH mislynch were suboptimal.

Understandable? My pressure on Artanis was intentional, if a little over-done. You have the power to threaten people with the lynch at basically any time. 24 hours is not a lot of time. I felt like it was being wasted. Unfortunately, I didn't put in enough work to find a viable alternative to the BH mislynch in time, so I'm partially to blame for what happened, but it's just absurd to suggest that I'm mafia for a misinterpreted look into my stance on BH's play and the lynch mechanics overall.

On April 24 2015 14:05 Damdred wrote:
Well if you think that why not vote me rsoultin?

On April 24 2015 14:45 Damdred wrote:
Your right in not really invested, and idk what exactly I have to do to prove I'm town. I give thoughts be they right or wrong and the only reason you say half of that is because I got you as scum.

On April 23 2015 08:21 yamato77 wrote:

I said it wasn't that bad

Do you really believe ONLY scum BH makes a case like that? I certainly don't.

I don't even like damdred that much this game. I don't really care for his responses to the case either. He essentially came out with nothing.

How was he being obstructive? He argued about his case, sure, but who wouldn't want to defend their piece of work? It's silly to scumread him for believing his read.

What do we really lose by not lynching right now, exactly? I argued against this sort of idea before but only as a means to actually apply pressure. It doesn't mean anything to lynch BH here because he's really only been in the thread to post his case and defend it.

On April 25 2015 23:56 Damdred wrote:
You've been a big pita RS.

I thought you had me town breshke w.w

On April 26 2015 01:17 Palmar wrote:
@Damdred and Breshke

Explain to me where I'm wrong about wave. Even if we ignore the case that I brought up against him, his general attitude has basically been terrible throughout the game.

Like he's being a dick and I don't know why, which makes me think he's mafia.

On April 26 2015 02:39 WaveofShadow wrote:
Can't do much reading or heavy posting during the day on a weekend. Later this evening
I don't remember either trfel or yamato having donw very much and Palmar looking much better despite me being relaly aggravated with him

scum probably amongst yamato/trfel/one of damdred/breshke/mayube artanis because like you i never have a good handle on a game even when i try to be confident. Essentially probably misreading someone ive had as town all game but yeah, more i dunno for now

On April 26 2015 02:45 WaveofShadow wrote:

Yeah you clearly haven't played with me before
and aperture barely counts

On April 21 2015 12:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
They were real reads before I realized the premise was wrong. And why the fuck do I have to call you town?
Why are you fishing for townreads from me yamato? You're behaving so oddly, and it's not even your normal hyper-aggressive early game push that Im used to.

I just wanted to wreck scum with you for once. Just once. Apparently it was too much to ask.

On April 25 2015 12:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
I still have an issue with how he treated EoD and beginning of day as scum---like that's super shit play and screaming TMI at everyone, especially considering the explanations and posts he made after the fact.

On April 25 2015 10:22 Breshke wrote:
##vote Yamato

I like palmars case don't get why people thought he ment they had to be mafia together. I think him referencing yamato not interacting with his case on WoS shows that he wasn't actually looking for an alternative to the BH lynch as from what i can tell he still didn't like wave at EoD yet failed to bring him up at all.

I think this read can stand by tiself from his wave read since I still disagree with him on that i think wave is town.

On April 26 2015 04:58 WaveofShadow wrote:
Remind me later rsoul to respond the you stuff in detakl
Re breshke I honestly haven't given him any thought since D1 cuz obvtown to me then
Maybe should reevaluate