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+ Show Spoiler [Damdred quotes] +On April 26 2015 06:07 Damdred wrote:
Maybe I have a warped view of trfel, but the ability to press his reads and to drive them take precedence over almost anything else in the thread when he is actually involved in the thread.
Guardians, the student mafia games. And his scum games always lacks that, even if hes wrong he always pushes.
Here...hes always second guessing himself on everything he puts out it feels like. One of many examples of false meta on me. On April 26 2015 06:23 Damdred wrote:
I think that you are really wrong on breshke though.
If you think Yamato is scum, do you really see scum breshke going for the bus in this situation? Bad argument (unflipped association read). On April 26 2015 07:20 Damdred wrote:
Also, since i'm actually trying to be involved I think we as a thread need to just go ahead and say we are making all days 72 hours.
We are automatically losing 24 hours of information due to the silent nights. If we extend our lynching cycle by 24 hours unless hapa says otherwise we should just add an extra 24 hours to what we would normally do.
So we should lynch tomorrow at this time. It extends the game but we get more information in the same amount of cycles I think. Why can't we worry about this every 24 hours? If we have a lynch, then lynch. If not, then don't. On April 26 2015 07:41 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 06:48 yamato77 wrote:On April 22 2015 06:45 rsoultin wrote:On April 22 2015 06:43 yamato77 wrote:On April 22 2015 06:38 rsoultin wrote:On April 22 2015 06:37 yamato77 wrote:On April 22 2015 06:34 rsoultin wrote:On April 22 2015 06:31 yamato77 wrote:
like, the advantage of IML to me is that it's REALLY easy to put pressure on people by just piling a few votes on and making that player respond to them
alignments are generally more obvious as someone is going to get lynched
in a normal game, you really only get the chance to do this to like, one or two people per day
but in IML you can do it to literally every person
sure, we have all the time in the world, but it's stupid to waste it waiting on known trolls like BH/Palmar to play the game then who do you want to lynch in the next 2.5 hours, yama? the point is the threat of the lynch you use it actively as a tool to force people to play the game you don't use it passively and hope they play the game then do it? no one is stopping you do you think he's town, or something? Why do you wish to play foil? xP i'm going to vote for who i think is scum, and i'm not interested in rushing a vote today. i think artie wanting to give bh/palmar time to participate isn't scum-favored and this whole push is silly -shrugs- but he's actively using it as an excuse to do fuck-all himself. Like, he's waiting on the two players in this game that I would have ZERO expectation to suddenly become active of their own free will. Maybe you don't have the history with BH/Palmar but I do, and Artanis should know better than to passively wait for them to play. I'm fine with the idea of not lynching today, but you can't just sit back and expect the game to come to you. I was rereading Yamatos filter, and I really really like this post. and exchange I don't like this exchange at all. Yamato77 was pressuring something that wasn't very relevant, past the point where Artanis proved his intention to be the opposite. Yamato77 kept up the pressure until Artanis specifically stated that his first quote wasn't entirely true, despite heavily implying this for quite some time. On April 26 2015 07:49 Damdred wrote:
There is not a fundamental difference in how to play mafia even if you aren't spending 10 hours in a game.
You can convince people to vote on the person you want even if you spend 5 posts in a given phase doing so, rather than half heartidly putting shade on people as has been done previously.
For example X shouldnt' be the lynch it should be Y. Is all fine and good if its met with any substantial post explaining why exactly that person is scum which doesn't take a substantial amount of time to do. For example you quoted my read on truffle and then quoted his posts but drew no conclussions at all from my post, nor the implications of what that means.
This is a major red flag, nor do you give any real explanation on why they should lynch me just that I am full of fluff and my reads aren't as intricate. That is not a good reason o lynch someone At least now that Artanis has explained it, his post on me was pretty good. Even if you misread it as I did (I would hope you didn't), you still see Artanis providing a ton of quotes and then clearly stating, this read progression doesn't make sense from a town perspective, therefore Trfel is scum.
What I missed, however, were all the rest of your posts. But they were actually quite good, and you clearly put a ton of effort into solving the game.
I just feel that scum are playing really well this game. I have good reasons to townread every player. It's quite frustrating.
Currently, the only real reason that I'm suspicious of Artanis is for his Damdred read. He did very well in Guardians by reading Damdred as town for his long, detailed analysis posts. However, Damdred saw that read, so it isn't valid any more, and Artanis should know that. Here is a detailed vote count analysis post that Damdred made as mafia. Also, here is a town Damdred filter where he does not make any long posts at all. By this point, Artanis ought to know that he can't read Damdred like this any more. Does it make him scum? I'm not sure. I need to filter dive him tomorrow, but I think he's most likely town.
By "weakest townreads", I arrive at a lynch pool of yamato77, Breshke, and Palmar. Though I know that's a horrid way to play.
I have my exam in seven hours, I need some sleep. I'll start there tomorrow.
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I just don't really know.
WaveofShadow has seemed really towny, but if I'm wrong on one of my townreads it's probably him.
I really doubt I want to lynch him today, but I'll take a look at what you guys are saying.
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On April 28 2015 05:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Please let me know what you find because the discussion leading up to the lynch today is pretty abysmal. I will do so. Are you going to stick around until the lynch? Because it would be great to have someone to discuss things with, I haven't really interacted with people for a while in this game.
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Artanis, help me out?
How does one going about catching you, if you are mafia?
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Do you think there is anything to the inconsistency between WaveofShadow's claim that he never uses meta and that he actually uses meta a noticeable amount? And how he uses meta for some ( for example, Palmar), but refuses to use meta for others?On April 22 2015 23:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
And there's still yamato who's done mostly shit all but be belligerent with me lately. (I'd call him town because his current not caring about the game currently is extremely town yamato but meta so fuck that)
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Thoughts on WaveofShadow
On April 21 2015 12:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
They were real reads before I realized the premise was wrong. And why the fuck do I have to call you town?
Why are you fishing for townreads from me yamato? You're behaving so oddly, and it's not even your normal hyper-aggressive early game push that Im used to.
I just wanted to wreck scum with you for once. Just once. Apparently it was too much to ask. He basically calls yamato77's play scummy, and then talks to him as if he is confirmed town. Throughout this whole early game argument with yamato77 and others, he never takes the next step to use it to investigate people's alignments, until yamato77 asks him. And then he basically gives the very same reads he started out with.
From there, he keeps probing and discussing. He asks some good questions, but he doesn't really push anything.On April 22 2015 15:52 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 15:50 yamato77 wrote:
I'll read this shit later
I've lost my general will to be mafia for today Fixed. He has a lot of reads, including suspicion on me (Trfel), yamato77, and Blazinghand, but he isn't pushing them that much. However, at this time there hasn't been a good chance for a lynch, so maybe he wouldn't push until closer to the deadline.
On April 22 2015 23:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
Assuming BH is scum think the other scum might be Trfel but I havent had a chance to flesh that out much. Artanis' read on him is OK but relies way too much on meta for my liking. What about his own read on me? He's mentioned it a few times in his filter to this point.
On April 23 2015 06:54 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 06:48 Trfel wrote:
I don't think there is any question that Blazinghand isn't playing to find scum here. He's obviously playing to survive, and not to find scum.
But from what I've heard of Blazinghand, I'm not sure that this actually makes him mafia? Would he play to live, at all costs, as town? Meta, but I have lynched him twice before as town with zero resistance. I have also seen him put up a ridiculous fight as town when I was scum in Les Mafia. BH plays how he wants and changes how he plays each game as he pleases. I asked him a question he never responded to: if he was Wade Fell, a smurf where he went super aggro town, or Old Partner, a smurf where he played pretty damn well as scum but fake claimed and got caught by killing the role he fake claimed. I make a point about Blazinghand, which from WaveofShadow's posts, he would disagree with. But he doesn't discuss this with me, instead he uses meta to cast suspicion on my Blazinghand scumread based on my reasoning. He's basically poking holes in everyone else's Blazinghand vote while still voting for Blazinghand himself, and I'm not sure why he would do this.
The way that WaveofShadow interacts with me here looks really bad to me. However, it has been recently pointed out to me that I am terribly biased against those who scumread me and favor those who townread me. Here's my thinking of why his stance on me is bad, but it's very possible that I am wrong, so I would like input from others.
He's basically saying that he doesn't understand how this post comes from town at all. He says that I'm trying to falsely portray yamato77 as mafia, but didn't bring up the best points on him that were brought up previously. He provides a reason for why I could be town because of this, but discounts it entirely for a nonsense reason. And finally, instead of asking me about this, he asks rsoultin, as if I am incapable of defending myself (which if he believes this is true, validates the reason that he just discounted for townreading me). This post doesn't actually look like he is trying to figure out my alignment.
On April 26 2015 03:17 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +Especially when you apply it incorrectly and presume that since Marv once told you that Yamato is absolutely terrible at scum, you figure he can't have 4 pages so far and have pushed some things.
Where did I do this? And no in my experience meta is shit terrible, and I am certainly not marv, one of very few people who can maybe attempt to use it correctly. essentially the call is are we feeling lynchy or do we wait for yamato And frankly by the time 48h rolls around im always feeling lynchy I want to see a flip so I'll sheep rsoul ##unvote
##vote: yamato77 This flip on yamato77 happens fairly quickly after he moved him from sure scum to null (for yamato77's posting at the start of Day 2). WaveofShadow said that yamato77's activity often dropped off, and here is effectively voting him purely for inactivity (at least since the nullread earlier).On April 26 2015 12:17 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 12:13 Damdred wrote:Sad day im not higher and you have me linked with possible scum  . I actually think Yamato is towny in his filter I did a bit of research on yamatos scum games. He's not really destroying thread here and much more active than his sxum games. He has fallen off considerably this 48 hours and that is a red flag but he did the same thing in mini mafia 2 which just ended. I don't think it 100% clears him but I think his filter is really indicative of a town Yamato at this point. WARNING: META Yamato's activity falls off in pretty much any game, but as scum it's just likely to be a hell of a lot more fall-off-y. As town he usually has some sort of catalyst that brings him back into the game whether pressure/scum lynch/something crazy happening and as scum that doesn't exist and he more or less gives up/shits things up as you said. This game has moved pretty slowly thus far and it's hard to tell here which is which even were I to use meta. The other thing about mini mafia 2 is he's probably super demoralized from it for losing the game at LYLO.
On April 26 2015 11:00 WaveofShadow wrote:
BTW, it's shit like this that made me question Trfel about 100 times. It didn't take me that long to go through the posts I had missed/skimmed, so why does it take him hours to read like 3 pages when he says he's doing it?
If anyone's around I'm up to talk, though apparently my timing is shit compared to everyone else's. Gonna reread Trfel/Breshke/Damdred/Artanis in the meantime. So, I'm his biggest scumread, and have been so for a while. But he's not pushing me, and not trying to find out about me. All he's doing is whining about other players' reads on me using meta, while not reiterating why my play is inherently scummy. And he's rehashing pointless arguments instead of actual reasons that I am mafia.
WaveofShadow's reads have been rather static, as well. The main change is his going back on his solid townread on Breshke, but I believe this read was changed after the thread sentiment.
Early on, WaveofShadow's play was quite good, but it did drop off lately (before his pre-announced activity drop). His reads were initially good, but he hasn't been really driving the discussion, investigating, or changing his reads to reflect new information. I'm not really sure what to think, given how good his play was earlier and how it changed.
I really think that I'd like to see WaveofShadow respond before I could lynch him. Given how active he's been, and how he played earlier in the game, I can't lynch him when he said he would be less active without giving him a fair chance to respond first.
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And suddenly I have somewhere to be.
I'll probably be back before End of Day, but no guarantees. Sorry.
I don't want to lynch Artanis, and I don't want to lynch yamato77.
Haven't gotten to Breshke yet. WaveofShadow could be a good lynch here, but I don't want to turn on him so quickly after the way he played for the earlier portion of this game. I could vote for him if someone is very convincing, but I'd probably just want to wait.
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I'm back. We aren't lynching today?
We probably ought to lynch tomorrow, then, if we can settle by then. I think we ought to.
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On April 28 2015 07:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I kind of favour waiting another day as well with both Wave and a large number of other players basically being afk for the whole of today. I also want to make sure wave replies rather than getting lynched whilst afk. On that note:
##Unvote
Trfel, can you talk to me about people other than Wave too? It's neat that you don't want to lynch me but I'm curious as to the why. You asked me how to find out if I were scum. Did you do any research on your own after that? I thought that your scumread on me was a weaker read. When you explained it, it actually made a lot of sense. Since then, you've been doing reasonable things and pushing good things. It's possible that you are mafia here, but it would take some work to find out. And I haven't done that work yet.
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On April 28 2015 09:03 Hapahauli wrote:
I have subjectively determined that little progress is being made in this game. I'll be imposing a 3-cycle cap to this day. You have 72 hours to lynch, or the day will end in a no-lynch. I feel insulted....
It's okay, mafia isn't going to kill me, so at least I have a lot of time to get my game together.
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If anyone wants to talk, let me know. Otherwise I'll probably be studying.
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I guess, my biggest problem with this game is that it's really hard to find scum.
I'm not the only player who's said this. I'm just thinking that if it's this hard to find scum, it's far less reliable to scumread people for having fewer scumreads, or not pushing their scumreads (Breshke, WaveofShadow, to a lesser extent yamato77). And I'm really not sure what to do about that... I almost wish we had Blazinghand in the game, RNG pushing everyone. Perhaps at this point that would actually be a good strategy.
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On April 28 2015 11:29 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 11:14 Trfel wrote:
I guess, my biggest problem with this game is that it's really hard to find scum.
I'm not the only player who's said this. I'm just thinking that if it's this hard to find scum, it's far less reliable to scumread people for having fewer scumreads, or not pushing their scumreads (Breshke, WaveofShadow, to a lesser extent yamato77). And I'm really not sure what to do about that... I almost wish we had Blazinghand in the game, RNG pushing everyone. Perhaps at this point that would actually be a good strategy. This is a very very understanding post. The way I see it the lynch today will either be myself, wave or yamato maybe art on this list but i dont think so. I think it would be better to focus on these three (myself, wave yamato) and decide who we want to lynch because no lynching would be fairly bad. As for my opinion I obviously do not want to lynch myself and I still want to lynch yamato. Since you agree with me, what do you think/hope that town and you specifically (two separate questions) can do about it?
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WaveofShadow,
The main thing that I have a problem with in your play is that I don't really feel that you have been pushing your scumreads that hard. Do you mind explaining this for me?
Thanks!
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Breshke
Normally, when I think of Breshke, the first thing that comes to mind is that he has some really good townreads. I'm just always impressed by what he comes up with.
But I'm not so sure that I see this here.
- Breshke's townreads
+ Show Spoiler +Artanis[Xp]On April 21 2015 09:34 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 09:32 rsoultin wrote:On April 21 2015 09:31 Breshke wrote:On April 21 2015 09:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 21 2015 09:24 yamato77 wrote:
I told wave he'd be the day 1 lynch
let's make it happen, people
##vote: waveofshadow I'm ok with any lynch that isn't me since I need to overtake kita in the not lynched as town percentage tab. Therefore, any lynch that is not me furthers this condition and I support this lynch. ##Vote WaveofShadow tentative town read for this post. lol seriously? xP Yeah haha all jokes aside in my limited experiance with art ive never seen him mention stats before so him referencing town stats and relating it to this game just seems like a weird way for a scum artanis to open. This is obviously very weak hence the tentative part. Breshke elaborates on his Artanis townread here, but I just don't find it impressive at all. He is correct that Artanis seems to be reevaluating things, but Artanis is such a good player that the posts in question aren't really worthy of a townread. WaveofShadowOn April 22 2015 10:50 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 06:35 WaveofShadow wrote:
Wtf this pressure on Artanis is fucking weird.
Like I'm super cynical that palmar and BH will ever contribute and I have an idea Artanis knows where I'm coming from, but these points of attack are weird and putting words in his mouth. Yamato what you said doesn't even make any sesne
Can't quote atm cause on phone but how is what you said even remotely what Artanis is doing?
And rsoul you get bored a lot for someone who is talking nonstop. I really really like this post. Wave joins artanis in my "can't see lynching" list. If wave is mafia his frustration this game is from him being wagoned early so being on the back foot trying to survive from the get go. The stuff about yamato's push is not really alignment indicative for him even though I fully agree with his view point. I'm not sure if i can explain this well but the last sentence on rsoul seems like it couldnt come from a scum wave as why would he randomly antagonize someone. Like he is clearly frustrated and if he is frustrated scum he would be trying to make friends not trying to piss people off. I don't see what it is about this post that makes Breshke like it so much. WaveofShadow says something that is obvious and doesn't result in any conclusions, and then adds a vague poke at rsoultin. And this results in a solid townread. rsoultinOn April 23 2015 08:39 Breshke wrote:
Haha i actually think you are likely town now rso. Youve saud some stuff while i was asleep that I liked. PalmarOn April 25 2015 19:55 Breshke wrote:
Palmar is my #4 town It's assumed that this is because Breshke is sheeping Palmar's case on yamato77. On April 28 2015 08:39 Breshke wrote:
Palmar
Legit dno how to read him. His play as scum here pushing on a townWos seems fairly absurd because if he knew WoS was going to flip town saying stuff like he will take all the blame seems odd because yes he could fight against this later but i get the feeling that he wouldn't set himself up to have to put in that much effort. So I find it unlikely that a scum palmar pushes on a town WoS but can see worlds where a scum palmar pushes on a scum WoS or a town palmar pushes on a town/scum WoS. I get this is associations or whatever but I don't know how else to get a grasp on his allighnment This is a weird post, because he completely ignores Palmar's push on yamato77 (who is Breshke's top scumread). DamdredOn April 26 2015 07:14 Breshke wrote:
Im gonna stop derailing u and damdred cos yourshit seems productive and I cant do shit all on phone. Be round later unlrss we lynch
I also feel that Breshke's pushes are sort of just following thread sentiment.
- Sheeps Damdred onto Blazinghand
+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2015 12:03 Breshke wrote:
##Vote Blazinghand
I think damdred has explained this best already and I am already town reading a lot of people and unless i misinterpreted some time stamps we are overdue for some BH goodness. I'm not terribly impressed. On April 22 2015 12:23 Breshke wrote:
As for scum I don't really have anything concrete right now but I don't like that you town read yamato and basically have the entire game yet in this post here Ignoring the argument with rsoultin for now. However, this is before Blazinghand's return and case on Damdred, so we can assume that his push on Blazinghand is merely a pressure. On April 23 2015 08:16 Breshke wrote:
Morning
Yamatos point is strictly correct like we dont lose anything by giving BH an extra day.
That being said I still want to lynch him On April 23 2015 08:41 Breshke wrote:
The thing is like i really wont blame anyome currently voting BH if they unvote to give it an extra day. It wont be me though and I have a feeling we are going to lynch him anyway What changed.... I don't understand why Breshke is basically asking for people to not lynch Blazinghand, while saying that he won't do it himself. This just doesn't make sense to me. If he's willing to not blame people for unvoting, then he should be willing to unvote himself and take whatever flak he gets from it if he's town.
- Sheeps Palmar onto yamato77
+ Show Spoiler +On April 25 2015 10:22 Breshke wrote:
##vote Yamato
I like palmars case don't get why people thought he ment they had to be mafia together. I think him referencing yamato not interacting with his case on WoS shows that he wasn't actually looking for an alternative to the BH lynch as from what i can tell he still didn't like wave at EoD yet failed to bring him up at all.
I think this read can stand by tiself from his wave read since I still disagree with him on that i think wave is town. On April 27 2015 18:30 Breshke wrote:
I still think yamato is mafia.
There are a few things about his play that don't make sense to me from a town perspective. First of all his not wanting to lynch BH and wanting to extend the day. This is strange because he knew he would be busy on the weekends and still not having someone to push instead of BH I don't understand how he thought he would have time to evaluate the game and find a misslynch when he clearly didn't have much time to play.
Secondly his rant about how IML it is important to pressure people with the vote. The past couple cycles no one has really been pressured except yamato who was not present of any of these cycles until the most recent one. yamato had time to do some analysis which didn't end up with him voting anyone or really pressuring anyone which he earlier said was vital for town to do. Basically I just see it as him saying stuff but not backing it up with actual actions.
I also don't understand his artanis posts because he never actually voted for yamato which yamato seems to think happend.
##Vote Yamato The first quote is just sheeping. The second quote, he adds some original thought. However, there are a few obvious holes in this. Given that Breshke is usually cautious in his scumreads, this is somewhat unexpected that he would be this certain and not give possibility of doubt.
But the problem is, I don't really see scummy things that Breshke is doing. It's more that I'm not seeing things that I would expect to see. And that makes it difficult for me to scumread him.
I really like Breshke, and I do feel bad for mislynching him in Guardians, but I just don't see the insightful reads that I normally do. So he could be a good lynch here after all.
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I mean, Breshke has made some very good comments, and said some good things. But they don't result in reads. His reads result from things that I generally don't find very interesting (or things that had been clearly said before).
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On April 28 2015 12:44 rsoultin wrote:
heh truffle's case is more or less what i've been saying all game so i'm not sure that i even need to read it o.0 maybe he'll present it in a better way though Nope, I don't think you need to read it.
I think that the one thing I found that was actually notable was the way he dealt with the Blazinghand lynch near the deadline, though that's probably been mentioned already.
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On April 28 2015 12:45 Breshke wrote:
Also the doubt in the scumreads thing is kinda similar to guardians where yeah i have doubt but I don't really have space to show it. Ended up me pushing for at least one town lynch in guardians so maybe I should rethink that. And that is the hole in the argument.
Sorry, it's a new thing I've been trying, to not put explanations in people's mouths, even if it seems darn obvious.
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On April 27 2015 20:51 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 07:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
And where do you get 'stay alive-y' from Palmar?
He's been coming in and posting at pretty random times and none of i is when he's under suspicion or anything, and you don't feel as though he has an agenda even though he's pushed me (and to a lesser extent yamato) nonstop?
I don't udnerstand though how Palmar immediately townreads yamato just because of his few posts last night tbh I don't townread him. I just think it's less likely he's mafia than you, hence I moved my vote. Breshke, Palmar didn't flip on yamato77. He just decided that WaveofShadow was a better lynch.
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On April 28 2015 12:49 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 12:48 Trfel wrote:On April 27 2015 20:51 Palmar wrote:On April 27 2015 07:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
And where do you get 'stay alive-y' from Palmar?
He's been coming in and posting at pretty random times and none of i is when he's under suspicion or anything, and you don't feel as though he has an agenda even though he's pushed me (and to a lesser extent yamato) nonstop?
I don't udnerstand though how Palmar immediately townreads yamato just because of his few posts last night tbh I don't townread him. I just think it's less likely he's mafia than you, hence I moved my vote. Breshke, Palmar didn't flip on yamato77. He just decided that WaveofShadow was a better lynch. Oh rearry Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 03:39 Palmar wrote:
Quickly skimmed Yamato since he came back. Moving my vote to waveofshadow
##unvote
##vote waveofshadow
I think it's less likely that Yamato is mafia now so that kinda puts artanis back on the table Yeah, that's not really a flip. That's changing from certain scumread to sort of scumread.
I don't know, Breshke. I just don't know.
I need to head out now, I'll check the thread in a bit. I do think I need to read yamato77 again, since both WaveofShadow and Breshke want to lynch him, and he's one of the three unofficial "lynch candidates".
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EPT
