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I'd have to look at artanis properly when I get home but he's someone to take a look at. I read him as town buy I'm not sure anymore. I think this feels like imperial when it was two town wagons d1.
Snarf's legacy was not good enough to.convince that many people, maybe that combined with edens case was enough..i dont know.
I'm in the world that snarf is town though
I think id look at artanis,node,tormented... Id probably look at Yamato and Eden as well.
Everyone else I think is town at this point,
If you ned explanations for any reads then I can give them later when I'm at my pc and losing a game of dota
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Have to see what shining comes up with aswell
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I need to look over artanis again before I can do more.
I'm.starting to consider artanis and yamato as mafia though.
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I cant really filter dive but eod was Yamato more interested in calling snarf mafia or calling wave town ?
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Probulus I'm curious about some of your logic here . I'm thinking about your post again and you think.like you switched over.. And then like mafia followed you later on to wave.. If snarf is town doesn't that seem a bit insane from a mafia perspective.
Like the more I think about it the person who switched first would be the scummiest potentially because they don't want to be associated with the mislynch and would hope to be on the second wagon right?
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On February 27 2015 04:03 Eden1892 wrote: Something about Artanis's reply to my question didn't feel right but I can't follow up rn on mobile. Promise I will before I'm nightkilled
Got to keep that streak going.
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I'm sort of considering a team where snarf is town and the mafia isnlike
Yamato,probulus and node
Game might be simpler and snarf is just mafia but I don't think people would be so eager to call him town and get off that lynch if he was mafia.
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I need to realread Yamato and prob again but in essence.
Prob switched at a time when the wave wagon wasn't massively established and maybe hale had cold feet on snarf who was going to flip town. Inalso dont agree with the logic that the mafia all jumped on wave at the end but snarf is also town.. Plus he made a case on damdred and damdred made like the towniest post in the game so far Imo.
Yamato is based on he had some early cases on him which I liked. Plus he also was more interested in wave is town at the end. In general town pushes case but mafia will just defend town.
I haven't checked filters properl so my cases look stupid right now but I will check them when I get home
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I think tomorrow we can look at
Artanis, Yamato,prob, node, tormented,
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Also damdred if artanis is mafia then take back what I said on tormented being mafia. I doubt the new player tor would bus a veteran.
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On February 27 2015 05:21 Tronak wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2015 04:05 KelsierSC wrote: I'm sort of considering a team where snarf is town and the mafia isnlike
Yamato,probulus and node
Game might be simpler and snarf is just mafia but I don't think people would be so eager to call him town and get off that lynch if he was mafia. Plausible and interesting, push your theories further please I could buy this one. I read node as town many times at the start of D1, but he dissapearing suddenly... Would Artanis fit as mafia in this line somehow?
I mean I can't give like an exact team of 3 at this point. Artanis is someone to look at but I probably wouldn't lynch him.
I had a pretty good reason to call him town but he's good enough to fool me. But no at this point i do9n't think he's mafia.
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I actually think yamato was ok end of day. He did put pressure on snarf from what I can see so I don't know why you guys lied about that.
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On February 26 2015 03:15 yamato77 wrote: I like damdred's posts about Snarfs. Dude has been seriously fishy this whole game.
For one, I'm pretty sure Node is town. For two, the way he's sort of just landed on Kels makes me highly suspicious. If someone has to bait you into voting them, it looks bad.
Kelsier looks a lot better now than when I initially voted him. Snarfs looks worse. Artanis looks better, even if he's ununnecessarily fixated on me. Tormented is at least trying, to an extent.
Right now I kinda want to lynch Snarfs. Ever since his first big post, I've had him down as solidly scummy but I've sat on it and waited. He never really got better.
##Vote: Snarfs
On February 26 2015 04:31 yamato77 wrote: Kels what do you think of snarfs?
On February 26 2015 05:47 yamato77 wrote: Why do you think snarfs is so townie, Eden?
On February 26 2015 06:02 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 05:59 Eden1892 wrote:On February 26 2015 05:57 yamato77 wrote:On February 26 2015 05:55 Eden1892 wrote:On February 26 2015 05:54 yamato77 wrote:On February 26 2015 05:51 Eden1892 wrote:On February 26 2015 05:47 yamato77 wrote: Why do you think snarfs is so townie, Eden? First of all, I never said that. I have him as not a lynch today, not "so townie." You obviously aren't even reading my filter, so let me quote the relevant part for you: On February 25 2015 12:50 Eden1892 wrote:On February 25 2015 12:42 Probulous wrote:On February 24 2015 15:00 Snarfs wrote: I was suspicious of Damdred for not really commenting on Tormented's filter. However, he said he was going to leave about two hours ago now to go to bed. Then stayed. Seems pretty towny to me. I added some more on Damdred at the bottom of this post as I was going through filters. Snarfs, this is bad and you should feel bad. The decision to check the thread says sweet fuck all about alignment. It is a low-quality but very sincere read IMO. I think it is a pretty townie thought process, cause I know when I'm town I'm looking for stuff like that, and as mafia I'm looking not to hand out bad townreads that I might want to walk back later. If they're partners then that goes away, but I think Damdred is town, so I'm not really putting any weight on the possibility I already quoted that. You're the one who isn't reading. Then why don't you have a halfway-coherent argument against it? It's not necessary to have an argument against a pathetically weak early game townread that I completely disagree with. The post as a whole is a joke. Probulous was right to point it out, specifically this wishy-washy language on Damdred that essentially says nothing meaningful. How is it pathetically weak and why do you disagree? I said it was a bad read, but it was a sincere one, which is what's more important. You don't lynch people for having bad reads, you lynch people for being mafia. Mafia can have good or bad reads. Town can have good or bad reads. The guy was handing out townreads for weak reasons, why would you do that as mafia when you didn't have to and it might be awkward to walk it back later to lynch the people you townread? Because he's trying to look like he has reads, and is contributing. He's been playing at being "the good, helpful townie" this entire game and it's been filled with performances like his post that you seem to think is "sincere". It's anything but. It looks constructed and fake.
On February 26 2015 06:24 yamato77 wrote:From Nomination: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 08:44 Snarfs wrote:All right, so here are my thoughts: 1) On VE: My vote on VE was initially because of exactly what I said - of the three people that came into the conversation, he was the quickest to abandon it when things got heated. Now, he claims that he was commuting and I can't exactly dispute that. But since then, I've had no reason to move my vote off of him. Look at the way he's saying things. Who is he even pressuring? Read through his filter and try to figure out who he's pushing. Palmar!? We're not lynching Palmar day 1, why waste time? As for the other people VE is "pressuring", there's no vindication. Phagga? Nope. yamato? Maybe, I can't really tell. When VE is town, he pushes people. He pushes them hard to determine their alignment and it's obvious he's pushing people. I think this is scum VE. 2) In response to Mr. Cheesecake: On February 07 2013 04:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:==SNIP== SnarfsBeen playing super neutral so far and non confrontational. Example: On February 06 2013 14:38 Snarfs wrote: I could point out that it looks like one or both of you are purposefully being stubborn to try to draw reactions out of scum, possibly some sort of trap, but I don't know either of you well enough to give you that much credit. If you CAN do something, then you do it. This post serves no purpose other than to illustrate that either Oats or Mocsta could be stubborn for "possibly" some sort of trap, but then says he doesn't have enough information. I was just saying what was on my mind. I was hoping by adding the "but" part of things someone else who knew these players would chime in. There are a lot of new faces here for me, and I apologize for not making it more clear that I was looking for some input from someone else. Either way, the point I was getting across was that it was not scummy that they were arguing like that. On February 06 2013 16:22 Snarfs wrote:On February 06 2013 15:33 Mocsta wrote:On February 06 2013 15:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Mocsta I'm intrigued by your posts regarding the nomination phase. However I'm going to suggest/request that you save it for AFTER the dawn phase of D2 so that scum aren't given instructions on how you're going to view nominees they put up. It's going to be clear enough after D2 because we're going to have to lynch into their choices - but if we can go all of D1 without speculating on who and why scum will send up D2 I think that's going to be a net gain for town. I disagree. On February 06 2013 12:04 Mocsta wrote: The choices scum have for nomination will be based on the status quo of the ODD days; so it is paramount to consider ODD day play for EVEN day nomination. Having said that, I am going to hold off further strategy talk due to: fuck all people online. Need some others to contribute. @SnarfWhat do you make of VE wanting to bury all nomination mechanic talk till the nominations are released? I think it's a null tell. Town would do it if they wanted to shift the focus off of WIFOM. Scum would do it if they thought it was in town's best interests to be talking about the setup. I've personally never cared for too much setup speculation as most of my scum hunting success has come from observing what they actually do, not guessing at what they should be doing. Another null tell. I was just answering the question that was asked. On February 06 2013 14:34 Snarfs wrote:On February 06 2013 14:27 Oatsmaster wrote: Hey Snarfs, Do you have any conclusions about the 'discussion' between me and Mocsta relating to our alignments/ Not really being swayed either way. Looks like standard day 1 banter. The only real stance he had on someone is VE, but the only justification is for his "disappearing act". Snarfs has had plenty of time to justify his vote, but all I see is "lol people were shouting in thread you weren't there must be scum". Apart from that, the only thing he's done is talk about WIFOM crap. Snarfs plz do something instead of trying to be all blendy and stuff, k? ==SNIP== Please read my first point and if this comment still stands feel free to rephrase it or ask again. 3) On Mocsta: It looks like most of the votes on Mocsta are based on meta (correct me if I'm wrong, please: Oats, yamato, JX). Now, from the case that yamato makes, my biggest issue is that the tone between NMM XXXV (the referenced scum game) and this game is quite different. In the referenced game, he is quite unabrasive. He is questioning people but he's not actually showing any emotion, as in this game. Compare: I appreciate the sense of energy you are giving back to this thread, and I certainly do not want to deter that; town needs this energy.
BUT.. you are almost sounding "paranoid" - I know this, because after my last game, many assumed I was "paranoid".
I think we both want the same thing, a town environment where people can voice their opinion and join together for the scum hunt.
When you say "it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast"; that alienates participants from wanting to contribute.
You are actually creating an environment scum can thrive in with that attitude - even though I doubt that is your intention.
I ask that you please think about the above.
vs. Oats you have an uncanny ability to read a wall of text and focus on one word in that paragraph.
You sound like a whiny chick to me, who hears one word she doesnt like, and zones off to everything else.
I AM NOT SETUP SPECULATING. The fuckn setup is 9 town, 4 mafia.
I am saying we need to make scum work hard to become read as town, I am saying good play Day1 is to emphasise quality posts, and avoid being a lurker I am saying, bad play Day1, is going to make nominations for scum in Day2 much fuckn easier.
Quote 1 sounds all nice and blendy in. Quote 2 is.. not. This meta argument is not convincing enough to sway me to change my vote. lolol it's the dude's formula.
I actually think yomato looks ok EOD actually.
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I'm looking at probulus again
Here is what I can gather for now
On February 25 2015 13:02 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 12:50 Eden1892 wrote:On February 25 2015 12:42 Probulous wrote:On February 24 2015 15:00 Snarfs wrote: I was suspicious of Damdred for not really commenting on Tormented's filter. However, he said he was going to leave about two hours ago now to go to bed. Then stayed. Seems pretty towny to me. I added some more on Damdred at the bottom of this post as I was going through filters. Snarfs, this is bad and you should feel bad. The decision to check the thread says sweet fuck all about alignment. It is a low-quality but very sincere read IMO. I think it is a pretty townie thought process, cause I know when I'm town I'm looking for stuff like that, and as mafia I'm looking not to hand out bad townreads that I might want to walk back later. If they're partners then that goes away, but I think Damdred is town, so I'm not really putting any weight on the possibility I get that. I just expect more from Snarfs. So far we have a town read on Damdred, a push then back-off on Node. It's not the Snarfs I remember. He is never a prolific poster but he is insightful and thinks carefully about what he posts. A careless mistake like that is uncharacteristic. When he does post it is normally for the throat. Haven't seen that yet.
He had his thing on damdred but that got removed , then he has this scum read on snarf
I can't really see why he gives this read up but he goes to wave thusly
On February 26 2015 08:27 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 08:21 yamato77 wrote:On February 26 2015 08:16 Probulous wrote: ##Vote WaveofShadow
Answer the question. he's not going to be here wtf are you doing? I don't like a Snarfs lynch, he is active trying and willing to be wrong. Artanis is spammy as hell but so are others and he has been pushing his tormented case all game. He is at least active and trying to find scum. Wave has done absolutely nothing all game despite being asked for it. Many times. He wasn't a lynch target so he just AFKs. Classic scum.
I mean is this really a good reason, there were several players AFK and lurkiness isn't really alignment indicative. Plus it is like he just gives up his read on snarf. The vote to make him answer a question seems pretty forced aswell, I don't really like this.
plus the reason he scum read snarf was because as town he was "insightful and thinks carefully about his post" but now he thinks snarf is town because he is "active and willing to be wrong"
that doesn't make any sense at all
On February 26 2015 08:55 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 08:53 Tronak wrote:On February 26 2015 08:45 KelsierSC wrote: I wasn't quoting you snarfs.
Tronak said he likes the lynch on you, agrees with artanis.
yet now he's voting wave.
I never said I liked the lynch on Snarf. I have always said I find him interesting as a player to learn from (totally egoist point of view nad not "find a mafia" related i got to admit), thats why i'd save him over Wave. Geez they just come crawling out of the woodwork don't they. I'll vote wave cause I want to learn from the other guy ?????
On February 26 2015 08:58 Probulous wrote: Too late for a switch?
On February 26 2015 08:58 Probulous wrote: Damn you Tronak.
We got scum on this wagon people.
I don't know, there was plenty of time for a switch. I don't really understand why he stayed on wave to be honest. Then he has this weird "oh you voted last on wave you are the scum" but if snarf is town then why would that make tronak mafia??
THen his re-entry post.
On February 26 2015 22:14 Probulous wrote:Taking a look at the way the Wave lynch happened I think mafia got lucky. It was my vote which made Wave a legitimate target and the wagon gained speed from there. Wave was safe as houses with no-one doing anything until I changed my vote then in the space of 10 minutes (10:29-10:40) four people jumped onto the wagon. See + Show Spoiler +Snarfs tied it up and Shining hammered the lynch but it is reasonable for Snarfs to push the other wagon and Shining jumped in too late to change the lynch targets. Anyway by this point the wagon was rolling strong anyway. I don't think Eden is mafia and besides his vote didn't push the wagon along, it was mine and the others that joined him. I made a major fuck up but my reasons are in thread. Even so Wave was at 2 votes when Snarfs had 4 and Artanis 2. The wagon really got going when Damred, tormented and Tronak came on board. Damred's vote was a consolidation vote and he moved from Snarfs due to his legacy post. Literally this Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 08:29 Damdred wrote: ##unvote ##Vote waveLet's do this rd end masculine words have swayed my heart of stone Which doesn't mention my vote 13 minutes earlier. Odd since Artanis and Snarfs were the lead vote contenders until my vote tied up Artanis and Wave and Eden's passionate cry for assistance didn't convince him earlier. Whatever, he hasn't provided the brilliant analysis he promised and has managed to lie low since I stopped pushing him. We lynched town cause he didn't participate so I am loathe to lynch on broken promises again. He clearly isn't in anyone else's sights so moving on. To be honest I'm tired of reading his filter. So that leave's _Tormented_ and Tronak. Just perfect, the newbies. Tormented I can't tell if it is mafia or just blatant newb. Take these posts for example Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 07:53 _Tormented_ wrote: ##unvote ##Vote Artanis I agree about snarf's post and I agree with his lynch, even if nothing will come of it. versus Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 07:56 _Tormented_ wrote: I voted him originally for his post against Node that seemed a pretty big stretch to me, along with not helping find any scum besides that post. I actually liked his recent post with his actual reads, but that is just me. I could just as easily be wrong. like three minutes later. He says bad stuff but he is completely open about it. I hate to admit it but Tronak is the same. I thought I had nailed him with his reasoning for voting for Wave Show nested quote + I never said I liked the lynch on Snarf. I have always said I find him interesting as a player to learn from (totally egoist point of view nad not "find a mafia" related i got to admit), thats why i'd save him over Wave which is just about the worst reason you could have to vote for someone. You aren't voting for them because you think they are mafia but because you like how the other guy plays. If this was the only time he specifically mentioned Snarfs play it would be blatant attempt to find a reason to vote and I would lynch him so fast but he has actually mentioned this a couple times before. - (iii) Scarfs: null about him with big fear of losing what I find so far a very usefull player for my learning.
- I like Snarfs, as said before, he results interesting to exist in my learning curve.
However, is impossible anyone reading half Artanis's post would miss his tunneling on Tormented. How can you explain that Snarfs?
I just don't see Tronak thinking that far ahead. Which means my two hours spent trying to work out what happened comes down to Damred again. It's past midnight here and I'm just done with this. I'll try and be here before day-break. I'll take a look at Snarfs and his side of the voting then. Please post your thoughts, hopefully some of this was useful. I especially want to hear from Node, who has also disappeared from the thread.
This doesn't make logical sense to me. if both snarf and wave are town why are people scummy for late voting on him. Plus I think damdred has made a very towny post so throwing scum on him looks very bad right now.
Prob would be my top lynch tomorrow
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On February 27 2015 06:31 Snarfs wrote:Kelsier: Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 08:58 Probulous wrote: Damn you Tronak.
We got scum on this wagon people. I read this as town realizing too late that it's a lynch between two town. If you're mafia, why do you even bother saying anything at all? Show nested quote +Kelsier wrote: plus the reason he scum read snarf was because as town he was "insightful and thinks carefully about his post" but now he thinks snarf is town because he is "active and willing to be wrong" I also think town is more likely to contradict themselves. Especially in a scenario where he probably could have just jumped on my lynch given the aforementioned scumread.
woo woo chill out bro let him answer for himself
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On February 27 2015 06:29 Probulous wrote: Skimmed so far.
KSc, I didn't think Snarfs was mafia. All I said was his play was different. Not different to his town play. He has certainly been less clear than usual but that doesn't make him mafia.
And no there was no time for another wagon on Tronak. There were two minutes remaining with only about four or five of us posting. Jumping off at that point would have ended up lynching Snarfs.
As for why scum would be on Wave and not Snarfs if Snarfs is town, well Wave was town. Pushing one town lynch over another seems a 50/50 split. There are three scum there could quite likely be two on the Snarfs voting. I particularly think Node is suspicious given he votes Snarfs for no reason and then disappears. We'll have to see what he says when he returns.
but if you're town read of him is based on him being insightful and careful with his posting, how does him being active and willing to be wrong make him town?
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On February 27 2015 06:51 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2015 06:46 KelsierSC wrote:On February 27 2015 06:29 Probulous wrote: Skimmed so far.
KSc, I didn't think Snarfs was mafia. All I said was his play was different. Not different to his town play. He has certainly been less clear than usual but that doesn't make him mafia.
And no there was no time for another wagon on Tronak. There were two minutes remaining with only about four or five of us posting. Jumping off at that point would have ended up lynching Snarfs.
As for why scum would be on Wave and not Snarfs if Snarfs is town, well Wave was town. Pushing one town lynch over another seems a 50/50 split. There are three scum there could quite likely be two on the Snarfs voting. I particularly think Node is suspicious given he votes Snarfs for no reason and then disappears. We'll have to see what he says when he returns.
but if you're town read of him is based on him being insightful and careful with his posting, how does him being active and willing to be wrong make him town? OK you're misunderstanding what I was originally saying. I was not calling him town in that first post, I just said his posting style when we played years ago was one of careful consideration. It's different this game but that doesn't make him mafia, or town. I thought that was clear when I posted this later Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 07:14 Probulous wrote:On February 26 2015 07:05 yamato77 wrote: Prob are you opposed to the Snarfs lynch? Still making up my mind...
so you just put out that he was being weird and didn't commit to him...
I just don't really understand why you town read him to be honest.
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replacing in this late is fucking stupid,
skims the thread and will give shit reads. i don't really give a fuck anymore
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