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On August 27 2014 18:24 abuse wrote:BarakosWhat did you notice about me so far, while keeping an eye on me? Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 03:06 Barakos wrote:
3rd and 4th quote and your reaction:
You are absolutely right. Anybody calling you out for not giving any reads and not being consistant with your opinion is not reading your posts close enough.
I have explained this in one of my last posts, (the huge one) how does your opinion change, when you see that it was not what was implied by superbia? Why do you see why meatpudding does not trust jenny completely, but do not see why I don't?
I noticed that you have gotten pretty defensive, which is a natural reaction, given the fact that you are being pushed right now. - So there is no read from this.
You seemed overly defensive, when i asked Superbia about his thoughts on your motives and you jumped in before he could answer. Didn't like that you called it silly and a waste of time, when all I wanted to do is get him talking. I wrote in another post, that I thought his huge openingpost contained only little valid information, given how long it was, so I felt the need to get some more information out of him, which in the end I got, when he made the big case on you, even though this wasn't the result of my question.
The explanation you gave on the read-discussion is as good, as it is simple. I can see that you meant something different than superbia and I understood. It was a fault by me for pushing you about this, while not thoroughly rereading what superbia quoted.
On Jenny
I already stated that I realize, I've got Jenny in my townpile without any good reason and that I am looking into it. And I allways could understand, why you wouldn't trust Jenny, I had a different problem with your push on Superbia.
When Superbia put him in his townpile and you questioned his descision I read it as an attack on him for just having her in his townpile, which was absolutely fine with me at that moment (The fact, he put her in his townpile), since i was on his page and it also fitted with his logic and smaller reads he gave in his post.
Now I realize, that you didn't mind the fact he had her flagged as town but much more the way he analyzed Jenny. For example you mentioned his comment "scummy reference, careful now!" which I read as one of his many trollish comments, he did in his post. Since I found the tone of most of his comments to be quite trollish, I didn't take that comment seriously and therefore found no inconsistency in his townread on Jenny. You did take the "scum reference" comment serious and therefor found some flaws in his logic, which you pointed out, which is good, since it makes me question the way I read his giant post, since I might have been blinded by his trollish undertone and therefore missed several slips and flaws.
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On August 27 2014 15:46 Barakos wrote:
...
gobbledydook:
I didn't like you, coming in the thread and 15 lines of content later you claim to have discovered a scumduo. While I agree with you on abuse having some very suspicious posts, I dislike that you completely discard the fact, that it was his posts that got the thread going in the end.
Would you care to bring forward some more points that back up your vote and make me believe that you actually read the whole thread and not just some posts that led you to believe, abuse is scum?
At the moment, I believe you are overcompensating for being inactive the first 24h.
What's wrong with proposing a scumduo? If you don't agree, that's fine, but scumreading someone for not having the same opinion is not fine.
You overemphasize 'getting the thread going'. The thread is going to get going regardless of any person posting sooner or later on day 1. If I wanted I could also post a ton of open questions to 'get the thread going' but that's not the point. The point of discussion is to provide insight.
Now that abuse has posted his list of reads I think he's town. I think he has put a massive effort into solving this game. The only thing I don't like is he omguses me, but that's fine I can live with that.
##Unvote
A reread of meatpudding's analysis and follow-up to my post seems to indicate he is town.
Also for those saying I just jumped into the thread randomly, that's how I roll, you can see my other games in the TL mafia database and I do this every game regardless of alignment. I am just not a high volume poster. I also happen to live in Australia where kangaroos live and where your night is my day.
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Awake and living now! Will go over all the posts one at a time, since I can't be bothered to mega post.
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Right now I really don't like Superbia. He appears to post a lot, but:
First big post is just a collection of one liners that don't mean much. It is sure hard to read though: maybe intentional?
His 'thesis' on abuse, upon reread, is twisting abuse's words to make him look bad.http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/464494-newbie-lviii-disney-princess-mafia?page=9#179
See for yourself.
Also my initial scumread on abuse was not based on superbia's read in any way. Just to make it clear.
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On August 27 2014 13:46 meatpudding wrote:
2. I don't follow how this statement could allow abuse to cover up his scummy play. Are you trying to say that if he pushes for a lynch and they flip town, he will say 'I was just being vocal' as a cover?
I don't like it when people preface with what their playstyle is (especially for pushing), why would you do that? It feels to me like already making foundations for your defense (why would you do that?).
On August 27 2014 13:46 meatpudding wrote:3. Somehow I suspect the hard push is coming. Also, how does giving misinformation about your MBK list help town in any way? You've mentioned your private points list a couple of times but I'm not convinced it's going to help us.
Don't get me wrong, my town/mafia circle is what it is. I'm not going to lie about that so easily. However, I have obscured a bit of information about how I grade posts (i.e. tells) because I don't want people to figure out how I read them.
On August 27 2014 13:46 meatpudding wrote:4. Good point, it may have been too early to reveal his reasoning here. As for the why, both me and Barakos called him out for asking us to provide information, when he wasn't giving us anything to read from. So I think he was forced to back up a bit. And if you check page 7, he does answer all the questions (I note this in my case on you).
So yeah, I missed on abuse's response to his own questions (missed the part where he responded that he was VT and wanted town PR) because it was split up in two posts. To be honest, that was one of the weakest points in my thesis. Not a game breaker (in my opinion).
On August 27 2014 13:46 meatpudding wrote:5. Maybe you're right. But is it indicative of abuse's alignment? It could be scummy to hunt for roles, so maybe. But def a weak weak read. As for abuse's reply that often people don't answer before they ask, I think this is a scum trait because, as I said above, it doesn't give town any way to read the person asking the questions. So this could lead to abuse being scummy but not for the reason you've stated. This is something abuse needs to clear up asap.
You're right, this is a weak read. I'm not going to have a huge list of strong reads this early into the game on one person. Alas, I'm not that good (yet!).
On August 27 2014 13:46 meatpudding wrote:6. The thread has started slow, so not everyone has given reads. Some people have not even posted. By now, however, I think it's a good time to give some reads. Note that Jenny for example hasn't given any reads either and you don't push a case on her.
This skips over some of the meat of my argument, i.e. he blatantly skimmed over my post. However, you bring up a good point (one that I will reiterate later in a general post): where is Jenny? I towncircled her because she was very active and vocal, and I believed it would be easy to get reads on her early on. Time to kick her into the circle of neutrality?
On August 27 2014 13:46 meatpudding wrote:7. Relates back to 2.
I don't see how.
On August 27 2014 13:46 meatpudding wrote:8. You seem to have missed most of what abuse said on page 7 (see point 4) so I think he has a good point that you are rushing.
Eh, maybe that's fair. I don't think it's a good case to dismiss my arguments, however.
On August 27 2014 13:46 meatpudding wrote:Finally,
9. I'm inclined to agree mainly with abuse here. You and I seem to be reading the opposite and it makes you look wicked to me.
Unless I missed something, you read Jenny and Barakos as similar alignment to me. Not really that opposite? Also town can disagree.
I like this shit, MeatProp, it doesn't feel like a mafia trying to pocket abuse, nor does it feel like mafia defending mafia (I sincerely doubt that would happen D1 so quickly after my thesis). I think I'll add you to my town circle for now (maybe replacing Jenny, let's first read what she has done today).
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gobbledygook seems to have made a very nice abstract of my thesis on abuse. Not sure if this is with or without reading my post.
Don't think his read on meatpudding. I don't think there is any world in which mafia defends mafia that fast. Though I might be getting meta'd here.
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Meatpudding
Best analysis so far and enough to put you in my town circe for now.
What? He called me town for posing questions in a non-attacking manner which is not at all alignement indicative and he said "Jenny seems neutral, since most of the stuff she says is positive(read: happy'ish)". Those are gut reads at best. No analysis to speak of. This snough to put him in your town circle?
You also asked me if I lean neutral or scum on superbia and the answer is I'm leaning town on him.
Abuse
I saw you "gave town points" to Superbia for saying "Let's not get sidetracked with this policy garbage".
Do you still think this is valid? Do you think Superbia didn't get sidetracked with this? Do you think that superbia is not one of the people who actually are the most sidetracked by this, and are actively mentioning these over and over again?
No, not really. He had a lengthy post but he was on the right track with it. A little bumpy but in the right direction.
why exactly do you think he deserves a lynch less than me, even though he was the cause of all the "heavy" and "aggressive" that you said you are not a fan of? While you say that your most valid lynch candidate currently is me, even though you say that I helped town. Do you think this is good logic to go by?
Things haven't gotten aggressive yet and even if it did, the one who is calmer is not necessarily townier. I don't subtract points for being punchy.
My read on him is quite complex, but for the sake of simplicity I would like to call him null for now.
This was in regards to lilwade. Can you elaborate your read on him?
calls meatpudding scum because he agrees with my point of view. says meatpuddings views seem made up, while in actuality meatpudding gives one of the most best inputs in this entire thread.
I explained on meatpudding's section why i don't think he gave "one of the most best inputs in this entire thread". Although goobledydook is my biggest scum so I agree with your read why are you siding with meatpudding so much. It's so scummy that both of you are defending the other hard for things that aren't even that good reads/ town plays.
He is giving an experienced player vibe, even though this is a newbie game.
You say this but again, I don't agree that much. You guys are either both mafia or both town.
Goobledydook
The post where you voted abuse was not well justified. Yeah, he spent time explaining himself. Isn't that what everybody should do? Explaining yourself as town will be the best read you have because you know you're town. Convincing others of it is mandatory.
It's like you came, saw who was being put on the spot and piled what you could find in the hope that people will follow.
You're not making any sense.
He does make sense and if you think he's wrong you should be explaining it to him.
Too few arguments for a rushed vote.
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Goobledydook
Your retreat seems just as void of arguments as your attack.
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On August 27 2014 13:35 gobbledydook wrote:meatpudding is abuse's scumbuddy
Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 08:24 meatpudding wrote:... abuse Your first post seemed a bit suspicious to me. I'm not sure why you felt the need to be so direct. I hope you can bring some more insight into what you have learned so far. On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:
@ Suburbia,
...
I also completely disagree on your rating.
Seems a little weird that you give minuses for some points (seriously? -0.5 because you think that warning you that I am vocal in my games and will push people who i find scummy - to be a preface for possibly scummy play), yet you comment on much of Jenny's stuff, along with "scummy reference, careful now!" but still give her no minuses.
Sounds like blind agreement to someone who is the most vocal at the moment, while at the moment Jenny really has not done anything yet that would classify as real town. Only neutral.
...
Though there are no real reads possible at the moment, I feel a townie vibe from the exact opposite people you do.
I feel that Barakos and Mihzaaa give townie vibes, because they give thought out posts and pose questions in a non attacking manner, unlike you. Jenny seems neutral, since most of the stuff she says is positive(read: happy'ish) yet does not really show anything much about her alignment at the moment. Though I will agree that she does not give any scum vibes yet.
I'm agreeing with your thoughts here. Best analysis so far and enough to put you in my town circe for now. There are too many unanswered questions, mainly what did you get from your opening and how are your reads shaping up. ... This just feels made up. Notice how it flows: 'Hmmm your first post was shit, so can I dig something out that can make you look good? here's your longest post, I'll just say it's good without explaining why it's good' It looks like an attempt to give abuse towncred, a ploy that I ain't buying. EBWOP fixed quotes
I kind of like your first train on thought. However, there hadn't been that many analyses yet at this point in the game (this was the second one besides my big post) so I don't think you can fault him that much? It'll be interesting to see how meat aligns with abuse during the rest of the day/game, however.
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JennyHell
Following it up with a response to lilwade asking about me and superbia, and this is very minor but he, instead of saying what he said in previous post that we are in his towncircle, he decides to phrase it as a "no lynch zone", which felt a bit off.
I had a no lynch zone but not a full town list yet. I was expecting the others to talk more so I can get a clearer mafia read instead of a "least town" read I had on abuse.
He then had his lengthy post where he seemed extremely defensive, but he brought up some good parts as well that I can agree on. But the general feel I got from his lengthy post was that all the commented on was things that was about him, concerned him or was good for his play, which to me felt scummy.
I talked about things concerning me because that's where I have the most valuable input. Not only that but I wasn't giving my thoughts in regards to Superbia's reads on others that much because I was interested in their unadulterated answer/reaction more.
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On August 27 2014 13:59 meatpudding wrote:
I'm happen to agree with what he was saying at that point. That is, Jenny is neutral (not enough positive action to put her in the town circle) and Barakos and MihZaaa are leaning town. Is there anything specific you would like me to elaborate on? What is it about the abuse quote I posted that you disagree with?
Also, what is your reads on Jenny and Barakos?
You haven't put out a town read on anybody yet, you need to more than just point fingers. For now I'm going to say that I don't read you as scum yet, but if you are town you need to help a lot more.
I like this and second it: I What is your towncircle, dook?
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Barakos
I am still very unsure about you. Would you mind explaining the following:
On August 27 2014 04:25 MihZaaa wrote:
What bothers me is that the people I read as scummy have either not spoken lately or have barely spoken. I wouldn't like this to be a wasted lynch where we end up just lynching for inactivity but it seems that's the direction we're heading to.
On August 27 2014 08:08 MihZaaa wrote:
From least scummy to most.
Barakos
Superbia and JennyHell
Abuse
You complain about your scum-suspects not contributing enough yet you put abuse, one of the most vocal ones in this thread so far as most scummy?
I feel like you are contradicting yourself here. Especially since your post was right after two posts of abuse.
Don't mind explaining at all. When I was typing that abuses last few messages hadn't gotten through yet ( I didn't refresh the page before posting). He was my scummy read out of the ones that contributed and hadn't been responding for a while at that time. The other scum read was lilwade and he barely spoke. And all the rest were not present.
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On August 27 2014 14:10 Barakos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 05:54 Superbia wrote:On August 26 2014 17:06 abuse wrote:
In my mind, there is no real time when a townie lying would benefit town, so I would urge you not to do so, because if I catch you, I will push you. And chances are you will be scum when you flip afterwards.
I have also recently played with a very annoying lurker, who just deflected all questions and did not really give any information at all to town. Behavior like this will also be pushed HARD.
Hopefully we get a good town atmosphere going where everyone is open about their thoughts and reads so scum has nowhere to hide. Have fun peeps~ Sounds like a preface for getting easy miss-lynches and blaming it on lying/lurking. Lynch all lurkers is "ok". Lynch all liars is garbage. I already fucking lied (gave misinformation about my points), where's the HARD push, huh? On August 26 2014 23:31 abuse wrote:
My reason for asking about lynching liars and lurkers served 3 purposes.
1) to get your thoughts out, so people can have a peek into each others brains a little
2) to make sure people were on the same end of the stick as me, when it comes to what constitues a "liar" and what constitues a "lurker". One of the things being - I don't mind lurkers as much if they are just inactive. I do on the other half mind a lurker that is being called out but keeps ignoring questions. I have had this happen in another game and it is very annoying and I will not tolerate this.
3) See how people react to the policies, as well as what alignments would they prefer to play. While it seems like it does not matter, since you can lie easily about what alignment you would want to play, I have found that knowing this information helps you paint a picture of a player.(for example, compare your answer of the first question to MihZaaa) Later down the game you can use this as a tool to see if they match it or not. Why reveal this? And why so early? This makes no sense as town. You should at least wait until everyone has answered the questions. And on that note, despite requests, abuse still hasn't answered all of them. Furthermore, to me, this makes it feel like there is much more substance behind the questions than there actually is. Don't get me wrong, I kind of liked the question behind lynching liars and lurkers, but it could also be used to distract town and eat time. The real question is: what have you gotten from the answers and how does it contribute to town? On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:
I also did not mean to push any policies, along with all the "garbage". I just mentioned them.
Also - You keep saying I am asking for reads and give none in return - I actually did not ask any reads from anyone yet( as far as I remember) and I also fully understand that it is much too early to post any real reads.
There has been barely any development at all yet. What? There's plenty to read (alright, not that much, but what?). I gave no reads in return? Did you even read my post? Or are you not interested in what town has to say? Red flag right here. Also, you didn't ask any reads from anyone yet, so it's okay not to provide any of your own? Not asking people shit is a bad sign, by the way. On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:I also completely disagree on your rating.
Seems a little weird that you give minuses for some points (seriously? -0.5 because you think that warning you that I am vocal in my games and will push people who i find scummy - to be a preface for possibly scummy play), yet you comment on much of Jenny's stuff, along with "scummy reference, careful now!" but still give her no minuses.
Sounds like blind agreement to someone who is the most vocal at the moment, while at the moment Jenny really has not done anything yet that would classify as real town. Only neutral. Another part that makes it blatantly obvious that you only skimmed over my post. Did you just crtl+f "scum" or something? On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:I feel like you rush way too much and do not read into stuff enough, while are trying to make the impression that you do. Which on the other half sounds like someone who would want to push a mislynch. How do I "rush too much"? You mean giving opinions and reads? Are you not happy that I'm giving a shitload of data (not all of it being good, granted), even though you complained about "no people being around". Good morning everyone. Just woke up, so here some thoughts on the abuse-case before i head to work: 1st quote and your reaction: I feel like you are overreacting at this point. You were called out instantly by 2 people on your math not adding up and gave the explanation to this without hesitation. abuse himself said, that lying without explanation would lead to him pushing people... you explained why you "lied" (i wouldn't even agreeing on it being a lie), so I would not have awaited a reaction from him, since pushing this point would have made him look more mafia than town.
I'm calling him out on it because according to his "how I play town", he would push on it. What's wrong with me pushing him here?
I don't think you know what slip means... slip (or scumslip) means that mafia does something incredibly stupid that instantly reveals their alignment, i.e. posting the nightkill before it happened. But I've explained this, I simply missed his VT claim because it was split off from his opinion about policies.
On August 27 2014 14:10 Barakos wrote:5th quote:
While I see the valid points in your post, I feel very uncomfortable voting on him yet, since he is one of the top contributors to the thread and your vote feels rushed to me, too.
That's fine, if we can find a better lynch target (quick scan of the thread says we probably can, since it seemed like my thesis stirred him into action!).
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On August 27 2014 22:18 MihZaaa wrote:
Goobledydook
Your retreat seems just as void of arguments as your attack.
I'm sorry that you can't see my arguments. You may want to invest in correction lenses.
And if you want to lynch me that's fine. When I flip 'Princess Aurora, the Sleeping Beauty' as I claimed, then we know who's been misrepresenting my words and pushing for a mislynch.
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wakes up from a long sleep after drinking some grog in a tavern
Hi all,
just wanted to introduce myself. It is my first Mafia game and I expected a lot more role playing and interactiveness but maybe I am just used to role playing communities as opposed to RTS communities (although I love both) or the game has not properly began.
Nonetheless I think it will be a very entertaining experience.
I am not a fan of using a point system to analyze behaviour and find this a bit suspicious.
All the players who introduced themselves like "Lets ban all the wickedness seem a bit mafia too me since this would be a good distraction from their own role".
I am just making these points without mentioning names since it is my first post here and I want to give everybody a fair chance before I call my shots".
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On August 27 2014 17:20 abuse wrote:SuperbiaFirst off- I am not a fan of super long posts. They are confusing and have way too much information to handle in one read at least for me. It would have been much better if you had split your post at least with a single post per person you are analyzing. This is also why this post it will be a pain for everyone, because I need to quote you..(and it will be a disaster, but please bare(sp?) with me) Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:I have read quite a lot through the previous newbie game, though not the first days (when Jenny was still alive). I might have to look more into it later. Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
Alright, so you're making an easy promise because according to post #167, you aren't actually going to do shit with the information in a way that's positive for town. Sounds like a good excuse for a time sink (I didn't do anything because I was studying the other thread!). This is 100% speculation. You are being very cutthroat on something I have not even done, but you just assume that I will. Why would you base your arguments on this?
It is speculation. But at this point in the game I'm going through posts (specifically yours, because it was obvious to me that you skimmed my post, which greatly raises my suspicions) and seeing what kind of alignment would make these posts. This seems town-indicative, but it absolutely doesn't have to be. As such, I can see mafia making this play. It's not the best way to start off my thesis, but chronological order is a bitch.
On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:I also want to note that I am usually quite vocal in my games and like to push people who I find suspicious. (Push hard if the regular pushes have no effect on getting a reaction from the person in question.)
On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
As I've said before, this can definitely be seen as a preface for scummy play. Why would you tell us what your playstyle is? How useful is this for town? It sounds like something you can fall back on when you've made a bad (i.e. scummy) play.
I can tell you what my playstyle is because I want to. Or because I am a newbie. People are not so stupid to allow anyone to fall back on something like this, if you make a scummy play. If you make a scummy play, you have made a scummy play. That should be enough to push a person.
I don't know what you read, but as far as I see this statement, it seems that I will push people who do not play like a townie should. Why would you assume(later) that I be scum based on this? This is not logical at all. [/QUOTE]
To me, it seems like a needless thing to do. As I've said before, my main point is that this can be abused by mafia to push a miss-lynch and then refer to this as an excuse. You say you want to tell us your playstyle, fine. I don't read it as townie and I never like it (for the reasons I stated). Hence why I use it as an argument. What was your goal posting this?
On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 17:06 abuse wrote:
In my mind, there is no real time when a townie lying would benefit town, so I would urge you not to do so, because if I catch you, I will push you. And chances are you will be scum when you flip afterwards.
I have also recently played with a very annoying lurker, who just deflected all questions and did not really give any information at all to town. Behavior like this will also be pushed HARD.
Hopefully we get a good town atmosphere going where everyone is open about their thoughts and reads so scum has nowhere to hide. Have fun peeps~ Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
Sounds like a preface for getting easy miss-lynches and blaming it on lying/lurking. Lynch all lurkers is "ok". Lynch all liars is garbage. I already fucking lied (gave misinformation about my points), where's the HARD push, huh?
Did you even read this part yourself before you commented it? If I catch you it means that I will push. That is what I said. I did not mention at any point that I want to enduce(?) a lynch all liars or lynch all lurkers in this thread. If you lied then you made a scummy play. Others have noticed. The push will come.
That's fine, I think this response is townie, good for you. 
On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 23:31 abuse wrote:
My reason for asking about lynching liars and lurkers served 3 purposes.
1) to get your thoughts out, so people can have a peek into each others brains a little
2) to make sure people were on the same end of the stick as me, when it comes to what constitues a "liar" and what constitues a "lurker". One of the things being - I don't mind lurkers as much if they are just inactive. I do on the other half mind a lurker that is being called out but keeps ignoring questions. I have had this happen in another game and it is very annoying and I will not tolerate this.
3) See how people react to the policies, as well as what alignments would they prefer to play. While it seems like it does not matter, since you can lie easily about what alignment you would want to play, I have found that knowing this information helps you paint a picture of a player.(for example, compare your answer of the first question to MihZaaa) Later down the game you can use this as a tool to see if they match it or not. Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
Why reveal this? And why so early? This makes no sense as town. You should at least wait until everyone has answered the questions. And on that note, despite requests, abuse still hasn't answered all of them. Does it make sense as scum? (hint: no)
Sick burn. 
On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:Does it make sense as a newbie, playing his first newbie game in TL? ( :OOOO )
This is weak, you lose some of your earned townie points for pulling this "I'm a newbie" garbage excuse.
On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:Also - I revealed this to let other people use this information to a good standard later themselves, and not discuss useless topics like why would i ask a general question.
Use the information later... I'm not sure I feel like the same way as you do about the quality of the information gained.
On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:Also, as mentioned before by others, I have answered all of the questions myself, instantly when prompted. If you pride yourself on reading my posts, and blaming me for not reading yours, you should have known this. This also proves my point that you are rushing, and throwing out accusations all over the place. Also seems like you are making these super large posts on purpose, because nobody would actually quote your bs, to prove you wrong (especially in a newbie game where people might not know TL's formatting well, it also takes up a lot of time and effort.)
Tu quoque. I saw you respond with your opinion on the policies, I then reread all your posts specifically looking for an answer to the first question (role + what role you wanted) but for some reason your answer didn't register to me. So I looked over it, fuck me, right? And since I'm a disgusting hypocrite, my points are moot. Multiple people have read my megapost and have asked questions accordingly based on what was unclear, etc. That is townie behaviour. Calling me out on big posts is not.
On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
Furthermore, to me, this makes it feel like there is much more substance behind the questions than there actually is. Don't get me wrong, I kind of liked the question behind lynching liars and lurkers, but it could also be used to distract town and eat time. The real question is: what have you gotten from the answers and how does it contribute to town? If you liked it then why are you pushing me about this? I have gotten what I have already mentioned before - basic picture of what a player is like, along with actual mafia-related stuff started being talked about, not useless chatter about other games and whatnot.
I'm not asking in the abstract sense. I'm asking you to provide to take the information you have gotten from these questions, put them in the textbox below the thread, and click post.
On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 23:31 abuse wrote:I really do not have a problem with answering these questions myself, but how often do you really see people asking questions to others while answering them themselves at first? It also served a double purpose, to see who would call me out on it and how soon would it happen. Happened pretty soon, which is good. Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
What use is it to look out for who calls him out for it? Is it alignment indicative? Hint: the answer is no.
It is slightly alignment indicative, but it indicates more who plays how. Who notices stuff what they are supposed to notice. Stuff like this needs to be called out, but there is a large difference in HOW you get called out on it. Scum and town would do it in different ways. One way- how town would do it, is ask about it and after they get an answer they would understand. The other way - how scum would do it - is latch on to this detail for all eternity and push that this is what scum would do. hence what you are doing now.
This is a fair answer, I wouldn't expect scum to respond like that and sign their own grave that easily, but to each their own, and the more angles the better, I suppose?
On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:
I also did not mean to push any policies, along with all the "garbage". I just mentioned them.
Also - You keep saying I am asking for reads and give none in return - I actually did not ask any reads from anyone yet( as far as I remember) and I also fully understand that it is much too early to post any real reads.
There has been barely any development at all yet. Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
What? There's plenty to read (alright, not that much, but what?). I gave no reads in return? Did you even read my post? Or are you not interested in what town has to say? Red flag right here. Also, you didn't ask any reads from anyone yet, so it's okay not to provide any of your own? Not asking people shit is a bad sign, by the way.
I didn't say you gave no reads. I said that you are saying that I ask for reads and not give any in return. Please read posts more carefully before you flag someone. There might be plenty of information to make reads from now, but not when I made that post, as discussions were only beginning.
What? Can someone else look at this? I feel like this is miscommunication. I don't think I ever accused you of asking for reads and not giving any in return (specifically this, I am accusing you of generally giving no reads).
On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:I also completely disagree on your rating.
Seems a little weird that you give minuses for some points (seriously? -0.5 because you think that warning you that I am vocal in my games and will push people who i find scummy - to be a preface for possibly scummy play), yet you comment on much of Jenny's stuff, along with "scummy reference, careful now!" but still give her no minuses.
Sounds like blind agreement to someone who is the most vocal at the moment, while at the moment Jenny really has not done anything yet that would classify as real town. Only neutral. Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
Another part that makes it blatantly obvious that you only skimmed over my post. Did you just crtl+f "scum" or something?
I dont understand your argument. Why is something like that "blatantly obvious" here?
It was very, very obviously a joke.
On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:I feel like you rush way too much and do not read into stuff enough, while are trying to make the impression that you do. Which on the other half sounds like someone who would want to push a mislynch. Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
How do I "rush too much"? You mean giving opinions and reads? Are you not happy that I'm giving a shitload of data (not all of it being good, granted), even though you complained about "no people being around".
You rush too much by not actually giving any good reads. Your arguments are flawed and are often based on stuff that you think will happen in the future, but have not actually happened yet , not to mention most of it was "alright" and jokes.
There was nothing really substantial yet, I wanted to get shit moving. That's what my megapost was for. My arguments are based on the thoughts behind posts. Does this help town in any way? Or is it simply an excuse for bad/scummy play? If you're not helping town, but still posting shit that's somewhat relevant, what the fuck are you doing?
On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:You misread what people are saying and you do not even read most of what they are saying, and are trying to cause chaos that way. Your extremely large posts do not help either. It might seem like something that scum wouldn't do, because hey, scum wouldn't put that much effort because they want to stay under the radar, right? Scum can. You did.
I've misread you. Once. I didn't associate your VT claim and "I want to be a PR!" with the question you yourself posed. Fuck me right?
On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:I do not have a problem with the fact that you are giving a shitload of data, it is what I wanted to achieve with my first questions after all. My problem is with the data you give. Your data is like a biased TV news network. You put everything in your light, and try to make wagons, by making people think like you want them to think, presenting all of the information in your biased perspective, not just poking at weak parts of others plays, letting others notice it and make their own judgement on the matter. This is scummy in my book.
I am putting everything in my light because I am outing my own opinion on everything. Amazing how that works. I'm trying to get people to think like me? I'm trying to get people to interact with me and I'm presenting my reads.
On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:
Though there are no real reads possible at the moment, I feel a townie vibe from the exact opposite people you do.
I feel that Barakos and Mihzaaa give townie vibes, because they give thought out posts and pose questions in a non attacking manner, unlike you. Jenny seems neutral, since most of the stuff she says is positive(read: happy'ish) yet does not really show anything much about her alignment at the moment. Though I will agree that she does not give any scum vibes yet. Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
How the fuck do you claim that there are no real reads, but still get townie vibes from people? You got a different kind of information source than me (i.e. know who is town)? Exact opposite from me? Again, didn't even read my fucking town circle.
How the fuck do you manage to find it bad and scummy, both when I say that there are no real reads available, AND when I post my thoughts on people?
Substantiate your vibes. You need to back up your fucking circles man.
On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:You also seem to find it bad and scummy, that by your mind, I do not give thoughts on others (though I do). Why do you find EVERYTHING I DO scummy? Why do you want everyone to think that?
This feels like an appeal to emotion. I don't feel like everything you do is scummy, I just feel like there's barely any town content, which gives me reason enough to push on you.
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"You need to back up your fucking circles man"
"I just feel like there's barely any town content."
I honestly do not know what game you are playing, and what posts you are reading.
I backed up every single of my town reads with seperate posts.
Also i find it funny, that you are allowed to "get things going" with your huge post, yet when I do it with my questions before you, you fail to see this as the same thing, while many others have acknowledged this.
I honestly have nothing more to say. This post of yours(though still mega) seems a little more grown up, but you still tend to fixate on a part of what is said.
You do not have a case on me. You think you do, but you don't, Out of everything you said about me, there is nothing that actually IS scummy. I have, at this point, posted much more townie content than pretty much anyone here, and you fail to see it or admit it, then there is really only one explanation for this in my mind.
P.S. And the fact that you think that being a newbie is a garbage excuse, you should stop playing in newbie games if you think that is true, and you should be ready to hit it with the big guys.
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abuse, I like that you've given reads on everyone. I'm not sure how I feel about the fact that seem to base your reads on Mihzaaa and Barakos mainly on their interaction/reads with/on me, while you don't seem to have a clear read on me.
I don't know how I feel about gobbledydook, I find myself agreeing with him with what little he has said on abuse. His flip on me just now feels a little too scummy for scum? If that makes sense. Would like to hear more from him.
On August 27 2014 19:26 Breshke wrote:
Meatpudding
May I ask though why in reply to abuses questions did you feel the need to specifically claim VT and not just town. Im not looking that much into this I'm just intrigued.
Eh, weird question. I specifically claimed VT as well (as did others), why are you pushing on MeatProp?
On August 27 2014 19:26 Breshke wrote:Superbia
I dislike your push on abuse. You asked him how explaining his playstyle is helpful to town saying that this was just something he could fall back on for scummy play when you yourself were talking about “private reads”. Couldn't mentioning these be seen in the same way as a scapegoat to fall back on after a scummy play? Also was your vote for me just to try and make me talk? If not what changed between your vote on me and your vote on abuse?
Good point, but when I push on someone for the lynch, I'm going to out all my reads. Besides, as I've said before, my mafia and town circle is definitely definite (i.e. not private). When I make a scummy play and refer to private reads, feel free to push on me.
Happy you're giving some reads, Breshke, not sure what to think of them yet, though.
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On August 27 2014 23:55 abuse wrote:
"You need to back up your fucking circles man"
"I just feel like there's barely any town content."
I honestly do not know what game you are playing, and what posts you are reading.
I backed up every single of my town reads with seperate posts.
You backed them up later. But saying something like "I get a townie vibe from" and then "there are no real reads" makes me wonder where you got your vibes from, is that so wrong?
On August 27 2014 23:55 abuse wrote:Also i find it funny, that you are allowed to "get things going" with your huge post, yet when I do it with my questions before you, you fail to see this as the same thing, while many others have acknowledged this.
Your questions were not mafia-indicative, I have pointed this out. I am happy to have the questions out there (as I've pointed out before, with the whole anything is better than nothing thing), but I don't think it's too town indicative for you to escape my gaze.
On August 27 2014 23:55 abuse wrote:I honestly have nothing more to say. This post of yours(though still mega) seems a little more grown up, but you still tend to fixate on a part of what is said.
You do not have a case on me. You think you do, but you don't, Out of everything you said about me, there is nothing that actually IS scummy. I have, at this point, posted much more townie content than pretty much anyone here, and you fail to see it or admit it, then there is really only one explanation for this in my mind.
That's fine, you've said your part and you've given your reads. I'm going to keep my vote on you for now to see where things will go.
On August 27 2014 23:55 abuse wrote:P.S. And the fact that you think that being a newbie is a garbage excuse, you should stop playing in newbie games if you think that is true, and you should be ready to hit it with the big guys.
Everyone here is a newbie. I'm just not going to accept any meta-excuses.
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