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On August 27 2014 08:59 Superbia wrote:Also, MeatPencil, would you mind going over my mafia thesis on abuse (post #179) and tell me your thoughts? Especially since he's high in your town circle. Please tell me where and why you disagree. Thanks! 
Here's the link to your post.
1. I don't see abuse as making a promise to read the other newbie game, and if he was it couldn't be alignment indicative. Anyone could read that thread or not, and we'll see if he decides to lurk more. I have posed some questions for him that need to be answered if he wants to stay my princess charming.
2. I don't follow how this statement could allow abuse to cover up his scummy play. Are you trying to say that if he pushes for a lynch and they flip town, he will say 'I was just being vocal' as a cover?
3. Somehow I suspect the hard push is coming. Also, how does giving misinformation about your MBK list help town in any way? You've mentioned your private points list a couple of times but I'm not convinced it's going to help us.
4. Good point, it may have been too early to reveal his reasoning here. As for the why, both me and Barakos called him out for asking us to provide information, when he wasn't giving us anything to read from. So I think he was forced to back up a bit. And if you check page 7, he does answer all the questions (I note this in my case on you).
"this makes it feel like there is much more substance behind the questions than there actually is"
Me too. I'm waiting for him to jump back in the thread, and hopefully not too late.
5. Maybe you're right. But is it indicative of abuse's alignment? It could be scummy to hunt for roles, so maybe. But def a weak weak read. As for abuse's reply that often people don't answer before they ask, I think this is a scum trait because, as I said above, it doesn't give town any way to read the person asking the questions. So this could lead to abuse being scummy but not for the reason you've stated. This is something abuse needs to clear up asap.
6. The thread has started slow, so not everyone has given reads. Some people have not even posted. By now, however, I think it's a good time to give some reads. Note that Jenny for example hasn't given any reads either and you don't push a case on her.
7. Relates back to 2.
8. You seem to have missed most of what abuse said on page 7 (see point 4) so I think he has a good point that you are rushing.
Finally,
9. I'm inclined to agree mainly with abuse here. You and I seem to be reading the opposite and it makes you look wicked to me.
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On August 27 2014 11:26 gobbledydook wrote:abuse
Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:
@ Suburbia,
Might want to read my stuff again, I didn't promise a read from the previous mafia game, I said I would read the first 2 days of that game aswell, to keep myself informed on what happened there.
I also did not mean to push any policies, along with all the "garbage". I just mentioned them.
Also - You keep saying I am asking for reads and give none in return - I actually did not ask any reads from anyone yet( as far as I remember) and I also fully understand that it is much too early to post any real reads.
There has been barely any development at all yet.
I also completely disagree on your rating.
Seems a little weird that you give minuses for some points (seriously? -0.5 because you think that warning you that I am vocal in my games and will push people who i find scummy - to be a preface for possibly scummy play), yet you comment on much of Jenny's stuff, along with "scummy reference, careful now!" but still give her no minuses.
Sounds like blind agreement to someone who is the most vocal at the moment, while at the moment Jenny really has not done anything yet that would classify as real town. Only neutral.
I feel like you rush way too much and do not read into stuff enough, while are trying to make the impression that you do. Which on the other half sounds like someone who would want to push a mislynch.
Though there are no real reads possible at the moment, I feel a townie vibe from the exact opposite people you do.
I feel that Barakos and Mihzaaa give townie vibes, because they give thought out posts and pose questions in a non attacking manner, unlike you. Jenny seems neutral, since most of the stuff she says is positive(read: happy'ish) yet does not really show anything much about her alignment at the moment. Though I will agree that she does not give any scum vibes yet.
So look at this post 1) He's being rather defensive. It's been like one day into the game and no one has voted yet though already he is trying so hard to deflect any attacks on him. If he were town, he would be actually trying to make reads and analyse and contribute, instead of spending 2 big posts on explaining himself and arguing on semantics and fairness. Which ties onto the second point: 2) His reads are vague, general and useless. It's the easiest thing to say in the world that 'someone is town because he posts a lot of good stuff' and that's basically all he said. It's so easy for a scum to say that and look like he's given reads. Meanwhile look at his scum reads - '404 ERROR NOT FOUND'. ##Vote: abusefor being scum.
I'm not going to try to defend abuse until he posts some more, and even then only if I still get a town read from him. However your reasoning could be applied to half the people in this thread, including yourself. You're not making much sense.
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On August 27 2014 13:35 gobbledydook wrote:meatpudding is abuse's scumbuddy
Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 08:24 meatpudding wrote:... abuse Your first post seemed a bit suspicious to me. I'm not sure why you felt the need to be so direct. I hope you can bring some more insight into what you have learned so far. On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:
@ Suburbia,
...
I also completely disagree on your rating.
Seems a little weird that you give minuses for some points (seriously? -0.5 because you think that warning you that I am vocal in my games and will push people who i find scummy - to be a preface for possibly scummy play), yet you comment on much of Jenny's stuff, along with "scummy reference, careful now!" but still give her no minuses.
Sounds like blind agreement to someone who is the most vocal at the moment, while at the moment Jenny really has not done anything yet that would classify as real town. Only neutral.
...
Though there are no real reads possible at the moment, I feel a townie vibe from the exact opposite people you do.
I feel that Barakos and Mihzaaa give townie vibes, because they give thought out posts and pose questions in a non attacking manner, unlike you. Jenny seems neutral, since most of the stuff she says is positive(read: happy'ish) yet does not really show anything much about her alignment at the moment. Though I will agree that she does not give any scum vibes yet.
I'm agreeing with your thoughts here. Best analysis so far and enough to put you in my town circe for now. There are too many unanswered questions, mainly what did you get from your opening and how are your reads shaping up. ... This just feels made up. Notice how it flows: 'Hmmm your first post was shit, so can I dig something out that can make you look good? here's your longest post, I'll just say it's good without explaining why it's good' It looks like an attempt to give abuse towncred, a ploy that I ain't buying. EBWOP fixed quotes
I'm happen to agree with what he was saying at that point. That is, Jenny is neutral (not enough positive action to put her in the town circle) and Barakos and MihZaaa are leaning town. Is there anything specific you would like me to elaborate on? What is it about the abuse quote I posted that you disagree with?
Also, what is your reads on Jenny and Barakos?
You haven't put out a town read on anybody yet, you need to more than just point fingers. For now I'm going to say that I don't read you as scum yet, but if you are town you need to help a lot more.
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On August 27 2014 12:48 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 12:09 lilwade wrote:On August 27 2014 11:26 gobbledydook wrote:abuse
On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:
@ Suburbia,
Might want to read my stuff again, I didn't promise a read from the previous mafia game, I said I would read the first 2 days of that game aswell, to keep myself informed on what happened there.
I also did not mean to push any policies, along with all the "garbage". I just mentioned them.
Also - You keep saying I am asking for reads and give none in return - I actually did not ask any reads from anyone yet( as far as I remember) and I also fully understand that it is much too early to post any real reads.
There has been barely any development at all yet.
I also completely disagree on your rating.
Seems a little weird that you give minuses for some points (seriously? -0.5 because you think that warning you that I am vocal in my games and will push people who i find scummy - to be a preface for possibly scummy play), yet you comment on much of Jenny's stuff, along with "scummy reference, careful now!" but still give her no minuses.
Sounds like blind agreement to someone who is the most vocal at the moment, while at the moment Jenny really has not done anything yet that would classify as real town. Only neutral.
I feel like you rush way too much and do not read into stuff enough, while are trying to make the impression that you do. Which on the other half sounds like someone who would want to push a mislynch.
Though there are no real reads possible at the moment, I feel a townie vibe from the exact opposite people you do.
I feel that Barakos and Mihzaaa give townie vibes, because they give thought out posts and pose questions in a non attacking manner, unlike you. Jenny seems neutral, since most of the stuff she says is positive(read: happy'ish) yet does not really show anything much about her alignment at the moment. Though I will agree that she does not give any scum vibes yet.
So look at this post 1) He's being rather defensive. It's been like one day into the game and no one has voted yet though already he is trying so hard to deflect any attacks on him. If he were town, he would be actually trying to make reads and analyse and contribute, instead of spending 2 big posts on explaining himself and arguing on semantics and fairness. Which ties onto the second point: 2) His reads are vague, general and useless. It's the easiest thing to say in the world that 'someone is town because he posts a lot of good stuff' and that's basically all he said. It's so easy for a scum to say that and look like he's given reads. Meanwhile look at his scum reads - '404 ERROR NOT FOUND'. ##Vote: abusefor being scum. I dont like that you come out of the woodwork and hop on someone elses boat. Instead of letting people analzye your post, you just come out with push on someone who has been getting picked at almost more than anyone else in the game. You accusing someone of vague, general, and useless when you have provided a poor case imo. your second post I didnt get quotes with that but what i did gather is this "Though there are no real reads possible at the moment," Why then are you voting for someone? What does that gain the town, i get you like to push people but a day 1 mislynch is not what we want in a 9 person game. You're not making any sense.
lilwade is making much more sense than you are I'm afraid.
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On August 27 2014 05:54 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 17:06 abuse wrote:
In my mind, there is no real time when a townie lying would benefit town, so I would urge you not to do so, because if I catch you, I will push you. And chances are you will be scum when you flip afterwards.
I have also recently played with a very annoying lurker, who just deflected all questions and did not really give any information at all to town. Behavior like this will also be pushed HARD.
Hopefully we get a good town atmosphere going where everyone is open about their thoughts and reads so scum has nowhere to hide. Have fun peeps~ Sounds like a preface for getting easy miss-lynches and blaming it on lying/lurking. Lynch all lurkers is "ok". Lynch all liars is garbage. I already fucking lied (gave misinformation about my points), where's the HARD push, huh? Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 23:31 abuse wrote:
My reason for asking about lynching liars and lurkers served 3 purposes.
1) to get your thoughts out, so people can have a peek into each others brains a little
2) to make sure people were on the same end of the stick as me, when it comes to what constitues a "liar" and what constitues a "lurker". One of the things being - I don't mind lurkers as much if they are just inactive. I do on the other half mind a lurker that is being called out but keeps ignoring questions. I have had this happen in another game and it is very annoying and I will not tolerate this.
3) See how people react to the policies, as well as what alignments would they prefer to play. While it seems like it does not matter, since you can lie easily about what alignment you would want to play, I have found that knowing this information helps you paint a picture of a player.(for example, compare your answer of the first question to MihZaaa) Later down the game you can use this as a tool to see if they match it or not. Why reveal this? And why so early? This makes no sense as town. You should at least wait until everyone has answered the questions. And on that note, despite requests, abuse still hasn't answered all of them. Furthermore, to me, this makes it feel like there is much more substance behind the questions than there actually is. Don't get me wrong, I kind of liked the question behind lynching liars and lurkers, but it could also be used to distract town and eat time. The real question is: what have you gotten from the answers and how does it contribute to town? Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:
I also did not mean to push any policies, along with all the "garbage". I just mentioned them.
Also - You keep saying I am asking for reads and give none in return - I actually did not ask any reads from anyone yet( as far as I remember) and I also fully understand that it is much too early to post any real reads.
There has been barely any development at all yet. What? There's plenty to read (alright, not that much, but what?). I gave no reads in return? Did you even read my post? Or are you not interested in what town has to say? Red flag right here. Also, you didn't ask any reads from anyone yet, so it's okay not to provide any of your own? Not asking people shit is a bad sign, by the way. Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:I also completely disagree on your rating.
Seems a little weird that you give minuses for some points (seriously? -0.5 because you think that warning you that I am vocal in my games and will push people who i find scummy - to be a preface for possibly scummy play), yet you comment on much of Jenny's stuff, along with "scummy reference, careful now!" but still give her no minuses.
Sounds like blind agreement to someone who is the most vocal at the moment, while at the moment Jenny really has not done anything yet that would classify as real town. Only neutral. Another part that makes it blatantly obvious that you only skimmed over my post. Did you just crtl+f "scum" or something? Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:I feel like you rush way too much and do not read into stuff enough, while are trying to make the impression that you do. Which on the other half sounds like someone who would want to push a mislynch. How do I "rush too much"? You mean giving opinions and reads? Are you not happy that I'm giving a shitload of data (not all of it being good, granted), even though you complained about "no people being around".
Good morning everyone. Just woke up, so here some thoughts on the abuse-case before i head to work:
1st quote and your reaction:
I feel like you are overreacting at this point. You were called out instantly by 2 people on your math not adding up and gave the explanation to this without hesitation. abuse himself said, that lying without explanation would lead to him pushing people... you explained why you "lied" (i wouldn't even agreeing on it being a lie), so I would not have awaited a reaction from him, since pushing this point would have made him look more mafia than town.
2nd quote and your reaction:
Here you slip hard. abuse has answered all of his questions
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/464494-newbie-lviii-disney-princess-mafia?page=7#129
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/464494-newbie-lviii-disney-princess-mafia?page=7#131
as well as the questions I had for him... in fact the post you quoted here was an answer to me questioning his motives behind asking his questions.
3rd and 4th quote and your reaction:
You are absolutely right. Anybody calling you out for not giving any reads and not being consistant with your opinion is not reading your posts close enough. Your reasoning on why Jenny is in your towncirle wasn't obvious, since you started with a -0.5 on her but you developed your opinion on her throughout your entire post and in the end it made sense. I had to reread it all and add up your numbers twice, but it did make sense.
5th quote:
While I see the valid points in your post, I feel very uncomfortable voting on him yet, since he is one of the top contributors to the thread and your vote feels rushed to me, too.
Care to say something about my first two points?
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I am off to work now. Will try to follow the thread and give my thoughts - especially on Mizhaaa, meatpudding and gobbledydook.
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(since i promised a read on Mizhaaa and haven't had the opportunity to comment on meatpudding and gobbledydook yet)
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Well this thread sure has passed on a lot since I slept.. skimmed it a little and see that my input has been asked for,
Off to work now, but will probably read this through better at work and answer when I get home.
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MihZaaa:
I am still very unsure about you. Would you mind explaining the following:
On August 27 2014 04:25 MihZaaa wrote:
What bothers me is that the people I read as scummy have either not spoken lately or have barely spoken. I wouldn't like this to be a wasted lynch where we end up just lynching for inactivity but it seems that's the direction we're heading to.
On August 27 2014 08:08 MihZaaa wrote:
From least scummy to most.
Barakos
Superbia and JennyHell
Abuse
You complain about your scum-suspects not contributing enough yet you put abuse, one of the most vocal ones in this thread so far as most scummy?
I feel like you are contradicting yourself here. Especially since your post was right after two posts of abuse.
meatpudding:
I disagree with your read on abuse, especially with calling this part:
On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:
I also completely disagree on your rating.
Seems a little weird that you give minuses for some points (seriously? -0.5 because you think that warning you that I am vocal in my games and will push people who i find scummy - to be a preface for possibly scummy play), yet you comment on much of Jenny's stuff, along with "scummy reference, careful now!" but still give her no minuses.
Sounds like blind agreement to someone who is the most vocal at the moment, while at the moment Jenny really has not done anything yet that would classify as real town. Only neutral.
good analysis. This is a part I find especially scummy about abuse, since it shows, he hasn't read superbias post completely or is intentionally disregarding superbias change of mind on jenny just to make a point against one of the more towny people.
Would you mind, rereading superbias post with a special filter on his tells on jenny and tell me, if you still think abuses post is good analysis?
And speaking of Jenny: I like that you don't trust her completely... I went through my reads and find, that I cut her quite some slack. I will have to rethink my standpoint on her in the near future.
I can see your vote on Superbia as a result of him trying to put a softclaim on you and him not reading all of abuses posts before making a case. But don't you think, superbia also got some really valid points on abuse and that therefore your vote is a bit too quick?
gobbledydook:
I didn't like you, coming in the thread and 15 lines of content later you claim to have discovered a scumduo. While I agree with you on abuse having some very suspicious posts, I dislike that you completely discard the fact, that it was his posts that got the thread going in the end.
Would you care to bring forward some more points that back up your vote and make me believe that you actually read the whole thread and not just some posts that led you to believe, abuse is scum?
At the moment, I believe you are overcompensating for being inactive the first 24h.
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On August 27 2014 15:46 Barakos wrote:[...] meatpudding: I disagree with your read on abuse, especially with calling this part: Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:
I also completely disagree on your rating.
Seems a little weird that you give minuses for some points (seriously? -0.5 because you think that warning you that I am vocal in my games and will push people who i find scummy - to be a preface for possibly scummy play), yet you comment on much of Jenny's stuff, along with "scummy reference, careful now!" but still give her no minuses.
Sounds like blind agreement to someone who is the most vocal at the moment, while at the moment Jenny really has not done anything yet that would classify as real town. Only neutral. good analysis. This is a part I find especially scummy about abuse, since it shows, he hasn't read superbias post completely or is intentionally disregarding superbias change of mind on jenny just to make a point against one of the more towny people. Would you mind, rereading superbias post with a special filter on his tells on jenny and tell me, if you still think abuses post is good analysis? [...]
I'm not sure which Superbia post you mean, but I guess this one http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=22846552.
I'm interested that you find it scummy. I don't feel that way (from this post). Although he's inactivity now is worrying me. I'll be asleep when he's back online and when I wake up it will be close to end of day. Not good.
What do you think he's trying to say? It seems to me that he is being wary of JennyHell, saying that just because she is vocal it's not necessarily a town trait. At the end of Superbia's post he says Jenny is in his town circle, but abuse is pointing out that Jenny hasn't actually done anything helpful to town. She's doing great at keeping the conversation flowing, but she hasn't given any reads, and I'm not getting any good read on her. So as I have said a few times, I'm hesitant to put her in my circle. I think this is what abuse is saying and that's how I agree with it. I don't think it contradicts Superbia at all because Superbia did say Jenny is in his town circle, and abuse is pointing out that she didn't receive any minuses in that post, when she probably could have.
There's not much there of substance about you, Barakos, except for this:
You said:
On Jenny:
I think Jenny is playing very similar to the last Newbie-Mafia and trys to get the thread going / is very vocal, so seeing that she was town the last game, I read her as town for now, although i am not very sure, since she stated herself:
And Superbia said:
87.31% agreement!
At least I think that's what he's agreeing to. Hmmm.
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Superbia
First off- I am not a fan of super long posts. They are confusing and have way too much information to handle in one read at least for me. It would have been much better if you had split your post at least with a single post per person you are analyzing. This is also why this post it will be a pain for everyone, because I need to quote you..(and it will be a disaster, but please bare(sp?) with me)
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 05:54 Superbia wrote:
Superbia's thesis® on why abuse is mafia:
[QUOTE]On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:I have read quite a lot through the previous newbie game, though not the first days (when Jenny was still alive). I might have to look more into it later.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
Alright, so you're making an easy promise because according to post #167, you aren't actually going to do shit with the information in a way that's positive for town. Sounds like a good excuse for a time sink (I didn't do anything because I was studying the other thread!). [/quote]
This is 100% speculation. You are being very cutthroat on something I have not even done, but you just assume that I will.
Why would you base your arguments on this?
[QUOTE]On August 26 2014 16:19 abuse wrote:I also want to note that I am usually quite vocal in my games and like to push people who I find suspicious. (Push hard if the regular pushes have no effect on getting a reaction from the person in question.)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
As I've said before, this can definitely be seen as a preface for scummy play. Why would you tell us what your playstyle is? How useful is this for town? It sounds like something you can fall back on when you've made a bad (i.e. scummy) play.
[/quote]
I can tell you what my playstyle is because I want to. Or because I am a newbie. People are not so stupid to allow anyone to fall back on something like this, if you make a scummy play. If you make a scummy play, you have made a scummy play. That should be enough to push a person.
I don't know what you read, but as far as I see this statement, it seems that I will push people who do not play like a townie should. Why would you assume(later) that I be scum based on this? This is not logical at all.
[QUOTE]On August 26 2014 17:06 abuse wrote:
In my mind, there is no real time when a townie lying would benefit town, so I would urge you not to do so, because if I catch you, I will push you. And chances are you will be scum when you flip afterwards.
I have also recently played with a very annoying lurker, who just deflected all questions and did not really give any information at all to town. Behavior like this will also be pushed HARD.
Hopefully we get a good town atmosphere going where everyone is open about their thoughts and reads so scum has nowhere to hide. Have fun peeps~[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
Sounds like a preface for getting easy miss-lynches and blaming it on lying/lurking. Lynch all lurkers is "ok". Lynch all liars is garbage. I already fucking lied (gave misinformation about my points), where's the HARD push, huh?
[/quote]
Did you even read this part yourself before you commented it? If I catch you it means that I will push. That is what I said. I did not mention at any point that I want to enduce(?) a lynch all liars or lynch all lurkers in this thread. If you lied then you made a scummy play. Others have noticed. The push will come.
[QUOTE]On August 26 2014 23:31 abuse wrote:
My reason for asking about lynching liars and lurkers served 3 purposes.
1) to get your thoughts out, so people can have a peek into each others brains a little
2) to make sure people were on the same end of the stick as me, when it comes to what constitues a "liar" and what constitues a "lurker". One of the things being - I don't mind lurkers as much if they are just inactive. I do on the other half mind a lurker that is being called out but keeps ignoring questions. I have had this happen in another game and it is very annoying and I will not tolerate this.
3) See how people react to the policies, as well as what alignments would they prefer to play. While it seems like it does not matter, since you can lie easily about what alignment you would want to play, I have found that knowing this information helps you paint a picture of a player.(for example, compare your answer of the first question to MihZaaa) Later down the game you can use this as a tool to see if they match it or not.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
Why reveal this? And why so early? This makes no sense as town. You should at least wait until everyone has answered the questions. And on that note, despite requests, abuse still hasn't answered all of them. [/quote]
Does it make sense as scum? (hint: no) Does it make sense as a newbie, playing his first newbie game in TL? ( :OOOO )
Also - I revealed this to let other people use this information to a good standard later themselves, and not discuss useless topics like why would i ask a general question.
Also, as mentioned before by others, I have answered all of the questions myself, instantly when prompted. If you pride yourself on reading my posts, and blaming me for not reading yours, you should have known this. This also proves my point that you are rushing, and throwing out accusations all over the place. Also seems like you are making these super large posts on purpose, because nobody would actually quote your bs, to prove you wrong (especially in a newbie game where people might not know TL's formatting well, it also takes up a lot of time and effort.)
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
Furthermore, to me, this makes it feel like there is much more substance behind the questions than there actually is. Don't get me wrong, I kind of liked the question behind lynching liars and lurkers, but it could also be used to distract town and eat time. The real question is: what have you gotten from the answers and how does it contribute to town?[/quote]
If you liked it then why are you pushing me about this? I have gotten what I have already mentioned before - basic picture of what a player is like, along with actual mafia-related stuff started being talked about, not useless chatter about other games and whatnot.
[QUOTE]On August 26 2014 23:31 abuse wrote:I really do not have a problem with answering these questions myself, but how often do you really see people asking questions to others while answering them themselves at first?
It also served a double purpose, to see who would call me out on it and how soon would it happen. Happened pretty soon, which is good.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
What use is it to look out for who calls him out for it? Is it alignment indicative? Hint: the answer is no.
[/quote]
It is slightly alignment indicative, but it indicates more who plays how. Who notices stuff what they are supposed to notice. Stuff like this needs to be called out, but there is a large difference in HOW you get called out on it. Scum and town would do it in different ways. One way- how town would do it, is ask about it and after they get an answer they would understand. The other way - how scum would do it - is latch on to this detail for all eternity and push that this is what scum would do. hence what you are doing now.
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:
I also did not mean to push any policies, along with all the "garbage". I just mentioned them.
Also - You keep saying I am asking for reads and give none in return - I actually did not ask any reads from anyone yet( as far as I remember) and I also fully understand that it is much too early to post any real reads.
There has been barely any development at all yet.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
What? There's plenty to read (alright, not that much, but what?). I gave no reads in return? Did you even read my post? Or are you not interested in what town has to say? Red flag right here. Also, you didn't ask any reads from anyone yet, so it's okay not to provide any of your own? Not asking people shit is a bad sign, by the way.
[/quote]
I didn't say you gave no reads. I said that you are saying that I ask for reads and not give any in return. Please read posts more carefully before you flag someone. There might be plenty of information to make reads from now, but not when I made that post, as discussions were only beginning.
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:I also completely disagree on your rating.
Seems a little weird that you give minuses for some points (seriously? -0.5 because you think that warning you that I am vocal in my games and will push people who i find scummy - to be a preface for possibly scummy play), yet you comment on much of Jenny's stuff, along with "scummy reference, careful now!" but still give her no minuses.
Sounds like blind agreement to someone who is the most vocal at the moment, while at the moment Jenny really has not done anything yet that would classify as real town. Only neutral.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
Another part that makes it blatantly obvious that you only skimmed over my post. Did you just crtl+f "scum" or something?
[/quote]
I dont understand your argument. Why is something like that "blatantly obvious" here?
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:I feel like you rush way too much and do not read into stuff enough, while are trying to make the impression that you do. Which on the other half sounds like someone who would want to push a mislynch.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
How do I "rush too much"? You mean giving opinions and reads? Are you not happy that I'm giving a shitload of data (not all of it being good, granted), even though you complained about "no people being around".
[quote]
You rush too much by not actually giving any good reads. Your arguments are flawed and are often based on stuff that you think will happen in the future, but have not actually happened yet , not to mention most of it was "alright" and jokes. You misread what people are saying and you do not even read most of what they are saying, and are trying to cause chaos that way. Your extremely large posts do not help either. It might seem like something that scum wouldn't do, because hey, scum wouldn't put that much effort because they want to stay under the radar, right? Scum can. You did.
I do not have a problem with the fact that you are giving a shitload of data, it is what I wanted to achieve with my first questions after all. My problem is with the data you give. Your data is like a biased TV news network. You put everything in your light, and try to make wagons, by making people think like you want them to think, presenting all of the information in your biased perspective, not just poking at weak parts of others plays, letting others notice it and make their own judgement on the matter. This is scummy in my book.
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 04:22 abuse wrote:
Though there are no real reads possible at the moment, I feel a townie vibe from the exact opposite people you do.
I feel that Barakos and Mihzaaa give townie vibes, because they give thought out posts and pose questions in a non attacking manner, unlike you. Jenny seems neutral, since most of the stuff she says is positive(read: happy'ish) yet does not really show anything much about her alignment at the moment. Though I will agree that she does not give any scum vibes yet.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
How the fuck do you claim that there are no real reads, but still get townie vibes from people? You got a different kind of information source than me (i.e. know who is town)? Exact opposite from me? Again, didn't even read my fucking town circle.
[/quote]
How the fuck do you manage to find it bad and scummy, both when I say that there are no real reads available, AND when I post my thoughts on people? You also seem to find it bad and scummy, that by your mind, I do not give thoughts on others (though I do). Why do you find EVERYTHING I DO scummy? Why do you want everyone to think that?
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
Furthermore, after all the interactions that happened, you have no reads? What the fuck?
[/quote]
Yet the very quote above this shows what are my "kind of reads" at that moment. That is all I had then.
Now I have more, and I will post them later on everyone in one post.
[QUOTE]On August 27 2014 01:37 Superbia wrote:
##Vote: abuse
[/quote]
Ridicullous.
So tell me, will you please add some more sense to your posts, instead of just taking some sentences that someone said, and try to make them look as scummy as possible?
Posts about others and a full readlist + my vote coming up later.
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Mihzaaa
Oh how I like this post of yours, and can relate to it so well..
On August 26 2014 16:55 MihZaaa wrote:Was hoping to get a power roll of some sort because sometimes defending yourself as vanilla town can be very frustrating when you don't convince people that have gotten fixated on you.
I liked his answers on the lurker and liar subject. Sounds reasonable, and even though the answer to the very first question was a bit snarky, overall this post gives me town vibes.
His reply to Jenny was also good in my mind, he also comments that she talks a lot, while not grabbing her throat for it, his reply also signals that he is more into it for investigative purposes, not for attacking her for it.
Also - missed your question as to why I prefer town power roles. I prefer them because they give you slightly more information than a vt townie, as long as an extra ability that can shift the game if needed, while still gives you the opportunity to hunt scum.
I really like that Mihzaaa called Superbia out a little on him poking at a soft cop claim. I think this is not acceptable, because if scum did not notice it before, they did now. This does not imply superbia to be scum though, quite the opposite, it makes him a little towny(who made a blunder, because that basically puts a target on meat's back on N1), because scum would just discuss this privately in the night phase. No need to let everyone know that it has been noticed.
I also very much like how he calls out Superbia on the same thing I did in my previous post - giving negative points to stuff he expects to happen, which hasnt happened yet.
I saw you "gave town points" to Superbia for saying "Let's not get sidetracked with this policy garbage".
Do you still think this is valid? Do you think Superbia didn't get sidetracked with this? Do you think that superbia is not one of the people who actually are the most sidetracked by this, and are actively mentioning these over and over again?
One thing I don't quite understand about your thoughts is, you say that you agree to what I have said, and like it a lotfind it a good policy to push but not harrass, inquire but not interrogate. You have put Superbia in your town circle at that point. Do you think this still applies to what he has posted?
why exactly do you think he deserves a lynch less than me, even though he was the cause of all the "heavy" and "aggressive" that you said you are not a fan of? While you say that your most valid lynch candidate currently is me, even though you say that I helped town. Do you think this is good logic to go by?
Overall I feel like his opinions are sincere, he is trying to help town with his actions. He explains most of the stuff he does with good reasoning behind it.
Would bang, not marry.
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Barakos
On August 26 2014 22:29 Barakos wrote:
On Abuse:
I didn't like you posting questions before answering them yourself... especially the ones, where you ask for the opinions on lurker- and liar-lynches.. It looks to me, as if you were trying to get yourselft the permission to lurk for a while... granted: you answered your questions when you were asked, still I found this a bit odd and will keep an eye on you.
What did you notice about me so far, while keeping an eye on me?
On August 27 2014 03:06 Barakos wrote:
How do you read what meatpudding said about looking into Jennys heart to see her true alignment as a cop-softclaim?
I mean... I can see how you could come to this conclusion, but to me this all sounds in line with the fluff the whole post was written in. So this seems a little far fetched.
To be honest I find it pretty suspicious to talk people into (soft-)roleclaims before the first End of Day... feels like putting a crosshair on their back for the first night and the last thing I would want to do is make scums job of powerrole-hunting any easier.
Maybe you might want to be a bit more careful with such conclusions?
Unless of course I am missing sth... please guide me through the darkness, good fairy!
Very good. Very very good. he was the first one to notice that the cop-softclaim and calls superbia out on it. Major town points from me.
This post overall reeks of town. It is thought out. He calls out what needs to be called out. He questions Superbia, but does not attack him directly. Good.
His questioning about my motives seems legit aswell, though I did not like that he did not ask me(or anyone else except superbia) about them.
On August 27 2014 03:06 Barakos wrote:
3rd and 4th quote and your reaction:
You are absolutely right. Anybody calling you out for not giving any reads and not being consistant with your opinion is not reading your posts close enough.
I have explained this in one of my last posts, (the huge one) how does your opinion change, when you see that it was not what was implied by superbia?
I like that you called out Superbia, in the same post, that I did answer the questions, unlike what he was implying.
Why do you see why meatpudding does not trust jenny completely, but do not see why I don't?
Overall - Town read. Would bang. Probably more than once.
I like the way his posts are done. I like how he does pretty good detective work, I like how he does not accuse in a negative manner. I think that even if he turns out scum in the end, which I don't really think will happen, but still, his input is helpful to town.
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Breshke
Not much to see, as he has not put much input yet, but his reads seem okay to me. Would definitely like to hear more reads that he said he would give later.
I agree with his read on Barakos to an extent, and I like that he sees what I have done in a positive light.
Null at the moment, because even though I generally agree with his reads so far, I want more of them on more people. Some of the people who were not mentioned have been quite vocal.
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meatpudding
His reply to my initial first 4 questions satisfies me deeply (no perv intended)
He is giving an experienced player vibe, even though this is a newbie game.
He seems to be the only person to actually read my posts how I intended them to be read, and does good analysis of the situation.
Same as Barakos, even if he turns out to be scum in the end(which I also do not believe to be the case), I think having him along the way will still help town a lot.
His posts are logical and have meaning behind them. He does not try to ignore questions and try to negatively push any flaws he sees in others' posts. He asks about them instead of attacking.
Also - I do not see him to be the cop, I do see him as town though.
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lilwade
My read on him is quite complex, but for the sake of simplicity I would like to call him null for now.
As for the other things, what he says and analyzes are to my liking, though they are not anything big in particular. I like his jump on gobbledygook.
I am a little concerned about one thing wade said, but will not bring it to light yet, as I need more info.
Either way - If the tables would suddenly turn in this thread, I would not be okay with lynching him today.
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JennyHell
Well. I like Jenny as a person.
I like the way she plays, though her posts did have a lot of fluff.
I mainly see her as null, but have started yank her slightly towards town.
She does give her input, but none of it is aimed to largely impact anything.
I like that she does reply to every question she has been asked, and she does not do it half-heartedly, but with thought out posts. What she says does make sense, though she has not really made a big play yet in my opinion. I would love to see Jenny's current read list compilation on everyone involved.
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Ok picking up from where I left off
Jennyhell
Jenny seeming towny in the earlier parts of the thread dont make me town read her. She pointed out meatpuddings change of play from last game so it makes sense to me that if she was Mafia she would be making sure her play did not change from the previous game. One of the only reads she gave while lengthy ended in a neutral read on MihZaa. While the read was very thought out I don't like that she has not taken a stance on anyone in particular yet.
Meatpudding
I feel like I should have a definite town read on you but I don't. I agree with a lot of things you have said especially town reading people for not putting jenny in their town circles just yet. May I ask though why in reply to abuses questions did you feel the need to specifically claim VT and not just town. Im not looking that much into this I'm just intrigued.
Superbia
I dislike your push on abuse. You asked him how explaining his playstyle is helpful to town saying that this was just something he could fall back on for scummy play when you yourself were talking about “private reads”. Couldn't mentioning these be seen in the same way as a scapegoat to fall back on after a scummy play? Also was your vote for me just to try and make me talk? If not what changed between your vote on me and your vote on abuse?
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Daydreamarine
Nothing to say about him.
We could use a replacement really.
Superbia
Most of my issues with him have been explained in my huge post.
I feel like he did a HUGE blunder by mentioning any soft claims to everyone.
His replies are cheeky, he does not read enough into people(he thinks he does) and he loves to argue a lot, and focuses on the wrong things (and boy does he focus).
I overall I read him as scum for now, but I do want to see how his game will continue, so in other words - I am willing to give him a chance to prove me wrong.
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gobbledydook
This is my biggest scumread .
Does not indulge in any chatter at all. Does not give any input, until he just appears to instantly vote.
Only gives his thoughts on 1 person in the entire game.
Reasoning for voting for me:
1) being defensive (he himself does not even post anything to have any shots fired at him by anybody, plus why is defensiveness a scum tell?)
2) vague general reads, which are pointless ( has given 0 reads himself )
3) for being scum. (what..?)
calls meatpudding scum because he agrees with my point of view. says meatpuddings views seem made up, while in actuality meatpudding gives one of the most best inputs in this entire thread.
says lilwade makes no sense in his posts, while making absolutely no sense himself.
Does not address ANYONE else, gives no positive input about anyone. Quite sure he did not even read anything except Superbia's post.
## vote: gobbledydook
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EPT
