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Bunnies
Before I get into the comments since yesterday I want to explain how I am thinking on bunnies-
I've played two games with her, Newbie LV and Detention Mafia.
Here's my general meta-thoughts on those games:
Newbie LV as VT:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv#14
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In day 1, bunnies points out a potential contradiction by yell0w in one of her first few posts, votes for him, and pushes on the point and discusses it with other players. She comments on other players’ votes (for instance, on Eden doing a reaction test sort of vote) while still questioning other players on yell0w. She comments on other peoples’ cases, agreeing at times, disagreeing at times. She even engages on points that she doesn’t understand asking what they are about or where they are going.
Town:She is active with fairly good post quality who pressures other players D1.
Detention Mafia as VT:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia
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In day 1, bunnies joins in pressuring jabberwockzerg for a weird sort of contradiction/comment, votes for him, and pushes on the point and discusses it with other players. She is relatively active through day 1. She isn’t focused on just one player, either - for instance, mid-day she does a reaction test and proposes me as a second wagon,
To be fair, her day 2 is pretty nonactive and mostly sheeps me.
Town:She is fairly active and pressures other players D1
I didn't play in Cell II, I was obs and ended up not reading the game. I skimmed the first couple pages and here are my impressions:
Cell Mini Mafia II as mafia:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/449768-cell-mini-mafia-ii
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Mafia: She is active and analytic on other players.
Batsnacks had raised the idea of a change in analytic vs conversational tone; I don’t find this persuasive. It seems to me she's been both analytical and conversational in each of the three games above, so even if she's not very analytic now it doesn't lead me anywhere.
I do suspect bunnies, though, because I feel the player I was with in two games would have picked up on my point on Blazinghand earlier and used it to pressure BH. Her response was a little different, more dismissive of the slip-
+ Show Spoiler +On August 29 2014 10:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
SO I caught up.
Nothing really interests me.
The BH "slip"? might be something to look at, but is that a slip or just a change of mind?
I tend to find town more slip like that than mafia in their way of thinking. Mafia are more calculated.
Amiko is pretty much town for me atm as well.
Like, I'm not sure if I've actually played an amiko mafia game, but I wouldn't lynch him this game.
This post is mixed to me.
On the one hand, I think her comment dismissing the slip is understandable. In the two games I discussed above, both players who seemed to have slipped (yell0w and jabberwockzerg) were town. But, in those games, bunnies still pressured the players on those slips and drew reads on them and the other players. I don't see that here.
@Holyflare / @WaveofShadow: You played in Cell II, do you have any thoughts on the above?
I haven't really read the thread since I last posted so if I change my mind on things I'll let you know, but I wanted to at least get my bunnies-thoughts written out.
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@bunnies: Your D1 posts indicate that you were scumreading ritoky. I haven't checked all the pages, but I don't think anyone else was really scumreading him. When you later said you felt he was more town, what did he do to make you feel that way?
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@mm1/bunnies
going through thread I'lll get to yours in a couple minutes
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Ninjabunnies votes
On September 01 2014 00:24 27ninjabunnies wrote:
3. Amiko, if you think BH was scum, how am I scum with him when I voted him?
Ninjabunnies votes twice on D2 - once on Ritoky, once on Blazinghand.
When ninjabunnies voted blazinghand, the vote count became:
batsnacks (6): Oatsmaster, Blazinghand, WaveofShadow, Not really holyflare, Professor Apathy, Amiko
Blazinghand (5): batsnacks, marvellosity, Holyflare, your mom, 27ninjabunnies
Ritoky (0): 27ninjabunnies
(I counted those myself so if I got it wrong let me know)
If Blazinghand is mafia, which feels more likely to me than ritoky, I think this does help a case for ninjabunnies as town because the votes were close when she would have voted for a mafia ally (3 votes outstanding).
Not conclusive of course, but I do think it's a fair point.
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Oh btw although bunnies was in Golden Sun & Order, I really don't remember those games in a way that's relevant. I know in Order she was low activity toward the end of the game, I just posted the two I remembered better (because I played them) and cell because it's closer to this game and she was mafia there. If they disprove my points or something, bunnies you should let ke know.
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On September 01 2014 02:18 WaveofShadow wrote:
At some point if anybody who either knows bunnies (or doesn't and wants to look it up) can show me some examples of usual townplay from her that'd be great. Eventually I'll do it myself if no one does.
If you want to look at Order Mafia (town) or Golden Sun (town) for comparison it couldn't hurt otherwise maybe I will later
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On September 01 2014 07:19 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
Amiko, why do you think Prof is town, and what do you think of lilwade?
I'm not all that certain on either one.
Apathy is largely a feeling read. I guess if I try to identify the posts that made me feel good, I'd point to:
(1) Seemed willing to coordinate or compromise on D1 for mayoral votes
(2) Was questioning of bunnies D1, which was someone I felt was suspicious
(3) Provided seemingly thoughtful answers to the positions he took D1
Mafia could do those things, too, but it gives him an edge to me over bunnies (who seems suspicious to me for reasons above and general feel).
For lilwade I'll make another post in a few minutes I have to check his timings
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On August 28 2014 14:38 lilwade wrote:
Hello, just your fellow town hero nothin to see here.
As for order goes I have no preference being as I have only played with 1 or 2 of you.
Cant believe all the butthurt people at ritokys great posts.
Empathy you are clearly the mafia in our cell.
On August 28 2014 14:39 lilwade wrote:
Somehow I typed empathy must be getting late I meant 27ninjabunnies
On August 28 2014 14:35 lilwade wrote:
##vote: Ritoky
did i seriously get 2 slips in 2 days
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oh I'm dumb that's mayor, ignore that
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On lilwade-
Voting
Lilwade votes on BH once in thread, then a second time in the vote thread after I pointed out he didn't vote there.
In either vote, I think it would make the split 8-5 (with Batsnacks leading and Lilwade voting for Blazinghand)
+ Show Spoiler +1) Vote count if he had voted when he posted in thread-http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=62#1235batsnacks (8): Oatsmaster, Blazinghand, WaveofShadow, Not really holyflare, Professor Apathy, Amiko, batsnacks, Holyflare Blazinghand (5): marvellosity, your mom, 27ninjabunnies, damdred, lilwade2) Vote count if he had voted when he posted in the vote threadbatsnacks (8): Oatsmaster, Blazinghand, WaveofShadow, Not really holyflare, Professor Apathy, Amiko, Holyflare, your mom, Blazinghand (5): marvellosity, 27ninjabunnies, damdred, batsnacks, lilwade
Doesn't tell me too much
Activity
In terms of his activity, yeah it's low.
In Newbie LVII he was on his fourth page of filter by the start of Day 2. This game he's still on his first page.
I won't really comment on LVIII since I'm hosting it.
Other stuff
Dude, I don't know. He seems focused on the people in his cell, which feels somewhat towny to me (in the same way focusing on a lynch does).
But it's hard to say he's been actively pushing reads on them or trying to get much from it.
I guess I understand ritoky's point about lilwade coming into the thread as a ballsy move, but honestly I don't see how that's substantially better than not posting at all.
Honestly just not strongly convinced either way. I guess it's more that I recognize some things with bunnies that feel off, Toad feels a little town, lilwade not sure.
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On September 01 2014 07:14 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2014 07:13 27ninjabunnies wrote:
@Simba, it's cause I love you.
@HF- I'm pretty sure it wasn't at the beginning of the day. My vote was on Ritoky most of day 1. It wasn't until day 2 did I switch to BH.
i called you out when you voted ritoky and you said your vote was a lie because you wanted to be coloured green and it was actually meant to be on BH, what bs are you pulling now?
Also, her d1 did discuss finding ritoky scummy even if the vote was suggested as joking
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=71#1408
Just noting that mysterymeat voted in the thread for bunnies, but not in the voting thread-
He isn't voting bunnies in the vote thread, but if you were to consider him as voting for bunnies it would confirm at least one mafia is voting on bunnies currently (HolyFlare and WaveofShadow are also voting for bunnies)
I'm not really sold on lilwade or bunnies yet, but worth noting if only so mysterymeat votes int he right place. I'm probably going to do some brainless stuff (league / hearthstone / etc) tonight and take another crack at the game tomorrow.
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@Oatsmaster:
I don't think I can tell you that, as I don't think mafia would be any more or less likely to do that than town.
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The point isn't that he voted in one place and not the other, it's that everyone in his cell is voting (or trying to vote) for bunnies, so obviously at least one mafia is voting or trying to vote for bunnies.
This doesn't give any indication that it's voting town or mafia but was considering it since when we were talking about d2 earlier it wasn't the case (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=65#1281)
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On September 01 2014 13:25 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2014 13:00 Amiko wrote:
The point isn't that he voted in one place and not the other, it's that everyone in his cell is voting (or trying to vote) for bunnies, so obviously at least one mafia is voting or trying to vote for bunnies.
This doesn't give any indication that it's voting town or mafia but was considering it since when we were talking about d2 earlier it wasn't the case (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=65#1281) Why is this relevant?
It's conditionally relevant to reading your cell -
Let's say all three of you vote ninjabunnies, she is lynched, and she flips mafia. I.e., if we get confirmation that mafia bussed. This can be relevant in a few ways, such as:
- This can inform reads on the three of you if we look at things like how firm your votes were (as mafia voting for a mafia ally may want to leave himself some wriggle room).
- Looking at the database now, Mysterymeat hasn't played a game as mafia. But, this can inform a meta read on players as to whether they'd be likely to vote for a teammate
- Consider whether mafia would vote for bunnies when (imo) lilwade is a viable lynch as well.
It may not be relevant, it may be relevant, but it's something I'll probably forget about if I don't note it.
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On September 01 2014 23:11 your mom wrote:
vote goes easily to lilwade.
> scumreads bh
> tells amiko that if bh was scum hed be more inclined to think apathy is scum
> votes ninja super confidently like he scumread her from the start
> effectively makes his post to amiko completely pointless cause he was so sure about bunnies anyway
##Vote lilwade
@your mom
Do you have any reads on bunnies?
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on lilwade's activity-
Holyflare I sorta disagree with your first point, I don't feel he's been substantially more active in one game over another. He's still on his first page of filter in both games. He has 10 posts this game (not including pregame) and 18 posts that game (not including pregame), but the length is pretty close, frankly. Quite a few posts which are just voting.
I'm not saying he didn't post more that game, but it doesn't feel like such a substantial difference that it's convincing to me.
I think maybe the better point is that in his first newbie he was more active, openly posted reads, and was town (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/462654-newbie-mini-mafia-lvii?user=lilwade&view=all)
In his second newbie he was less active, posted few reads and not much analysis, and was scum.
In this game, I think he's also been less active, posted fewer reads and not much analysis.
I think the meta case for both makes them lean scum so I'm not really sure, I'll try to vote in the next hour or so since I think I will be out at deadline
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Unfortunately I really don't have anything new to add, but I have to head out in a couple minutes so I have to vote.
##vote: lilwade
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There's a fair chance we lose today so if all three of the people in the Cell up for lynch can be active that'd be a nice change of pace for the game. I'd like at least one day where everyone is playing ._.
@NRHF:
I get a town read on you for the most part, but here's some things I'd like to ask-
+ Show Spoiler +On August 29 2014 10:36 Not really holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2014 10:30 Amiko wrote:
Oh sidethought I wanted to ask
@Anyone else who said Cell C was an easy cell to read - this was at least NotReallyHolyflare and I think also Apathy
Why do you feel this is the case?
I have never been scum on forum mafia, so I don't see why it would be easy to read me as town/scum. Even if marv is easy to read, do you feel that confident about reading Oats? Give some basis on this Yes. Oats is like 99.9999% scum now because I think you're town. Because I trust that you may be 99.9999% town, ill sheep you for catching a mistake that bh shouldn't have done. Bat posted. Not scum. Ritoky MIGHT be scum because his town was analytical. This is bullshit ritoky. Anyway, scratch that. Ritoky is scum. ##Vote: ritoky
For this post, there's a couple weird things I'd like you to explain.
1) You indicate that you will sheep me, but then vote for ritoky. wassup with that.
2) You scumread oats on the grounds that you read me as town. This implies that you also townread marv. I don't really see you townreading marv from any of your other posts, though - most suggest that you are counting on WaveofShadow or Holyflare to read Marv. So, did you townread marv at that time? When and why?
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@NRHF: What are your current thoughts on Cell B?
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EPT
