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On April 05 2014 04:50 Holyflare wrote:
gg =/
OK but you do at least see my point? If I am town, which I am(Rayns a phony!) it's far more likely Rayn is scum than Steve to me, and Rayn's interactions with Palmer are the only ones that seem Scum on scumish.
Doth though agree?
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On April 05 2014 04:48 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 04:41 Holyflare wrote:On April 05 2014 03:33 getmoript wrote:On April 03 2014 01:17 Steveling wrote:
Gum, when I started being active today first thing I did was filter you and raynkoshi.
You can check my post on them, frankly I didn't find a single anti town thing.
My view on them hasn't changed since then as well, their case on you was solid.
Anyway, we should get some heat from other cells as well, guys?
Promote discussion pls. This post really bugs me. Never in playing mafia have I ever found a filter with nothing I found bad in it. But what's even odder to me is the complete non-chalance before about Rayn/Gum. I think HF pinged me on this point earlier in the game and I remember it being odd, but in rereading it sticks out even more and more. Specifically, Steveling essentially made this huge case on Gumshoe where he ends up with a fence read. The thing that specifically bugs me is that in this setup, if I'm town and I have a super town read on someone else and a neutral read on the third person, then I'm going to read the fuck out of the third person to figure out what I'm missing and where I'm going wrong. It gets weirder: On April 02 2014 20:51 Steveling wrote:On April 02 2014 20:42 Holyflare wrote:On April 02 2014 20:39 Steveling wrote:
I read your thing against mderg, holyflare and tbh I'm not convinced.
Also I'm waiting for you to answer palmar's questions about mdergs meta filter.
Everyone with soft posts and inactivity and fluff is scum candidate but you seem way too fixated on him for some reason. Regardless, if you don't agree with what i said then what conclusions do you draw from the people that agreed with me when i said it? Are they then mafia for sheeping onto a town or what? First, if I had to bet on it, I'd say he's town. Now about the people that bus'd him Tehpoofter and getript seemingly blindly jump on him. Definitely suspicious for me. Gumshoe's suspicion I think is kinda silly, why would mderg defend me like that out of the blue, it would be literally the worst mafia play ever.Balla doesn't really hard claim him as scum as the others, he's just saying that his filter is scammy/inactive/fluff. So, can't form an opinion on balla based on that. Raynkoshi made the connection between mderg and gum but and raynkoshi so far gets a town read in my book so there's that. I like the joke there and laughed "I think he's town but about those people bussing him..." The weird thing here is that he again calls RaynKoshi town and calls Gum's suspicion silly. There's really too much of this to ignore. On April 02 2014 23:55 Steveling wrote:
Alright, I just had the time to properly read raynkoshi's case and gum's um, lack of debunking?
About the trap thing, raynkoshi's 1st point, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt gum.
I explained earlier that I find that part of your game flawed but genuinely your style and mby town play. Same thing you did when we played together. You are still in the wrong but I'm passing it by.
The 2nd point they made is very very legit though. Rare are the cases where the town benefits if they lynch their own.
That holds for a normal setup though, for this setup in which after each lynch a whole cell goes OUT of the game your "don't give a crap what you think about me" is inherently scum.
I'm surprised you can't see it for yourself.
I was willing to give you even more time to explain yourself right until that part.
Their 3rd point also stands and you still don't give a damn. You are not making it easy mate.
You don't have my vote of confidence anymore. + Show Spoiler [Rayn's case] +On April 02 2014 22:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Here is why gumshoe is mafia and we should be lynching him:
Point #1: gumshoe's bait and why it does not make sense from town perspective and proves he is scum:Here is the full conversation regarding this: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not. I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not? ~rayn Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 06:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not. I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not? ~rayn I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / : Now here other stuff happens and both of me and gumshoe discuss other things. Later on i revisit the argument and it bothers me because it looks weird. I ask gumshoe this: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 08:40 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I am trying so hard to think about this post and what the fuck is the point of all this. gumshoe what's the point of all this? On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote:
I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
I don't believe this. I don't believe this for one second. ~rayn Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 08:52 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:43 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
yes please.
~rayn I was offering an olive branch to see your reaction. No I wasn't honestly going after Steve with so little, but you know I'm capable of weird arguments like that so If your scum you have to consider 2 things, if I'm genuine and if your better off tentatively agreeing with me or turning on me for that silly read. Now read the red part and the green part. Both are gumshoe's answers. Both cannot possibly be true. Agreed? Yes, good. Now this leads us to the following: gumshoe says he laid a trap on me and i did not take the bait. Okay, maybe this is true. However why this is scummy is because the trap and the conclusion from it happened before gumshoe makes his green explanation. If it was truly a trap gumshoe has his conclusion already. In this case he would post the red part instead of lying and posting the green part in the first place. There is absolutely no reason to lie about the motivation behind your argument when asked, especially when you have already gotten your conclusion!!There is no town motivation for gumshoe to do what he did. This also leads me to:
Point #2: gumshoe's contradicting stance regarding readability and what it means:I made a post about this already. It's here: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 10:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game (where he was town) half past D1. I also found this: On March 28 2014 01:53 gumshoe wrote:On March 28 2014 01:30 Holyflare wrote:
because it is so wrong, not reading your pm enables you to be towny because you have no hesitation about finding your partner at that point because you don't know who he is so your entire reason for voting palmar is incredibly weird.....
not to mention he actually claimed scum, why haven't you commented on that instead? Cause I'm not there yet : P and I disagree, bieng readable is a big part of bieng town, if you make your self unreadable you can't be trusted. I'm not going to argue with you about this because it's retarded to think otherwise. However as me and gumshoe talk about being readable in this game his stance is this: On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm. ~rayn "Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. Here i present you our first...... Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!! ezpz ~rayn Look at the post. - In the green part gumshoe, as town in the last game we played, claims his stance. He says "being readable is a big part of good town play. It's retarded to think otherwise."
- In the red part gumshoe claims his stance in this game. You need to remember this has to do with the point #1 i presented. I have an argument that gumshoe is mafia because he is lying. I want to know why gumshoe is lying and if he has an explanation regarding why it makes sense to lie here as town. His stance is "why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? If you can't read me, that's not my fault."
Why this is scummy? Because town!gumshoe PROVABLY thinks the exact opposite he claims in this game. He only says what he does in this game because he lied and can't explain it in any other way. His explanation does not match with what town!gumshoe thinks. Noone can possibly have a contradicting stance on what is the optimal play for a townie regarding being readable or not when they are town, it's impossible, regardless of the game or situation!
Point #3: gumshoe is dodging arguments and working against his own heuristics + :I'll just make a list of these: - gumshoe refuses to answer my case on him and fearmongers something about "you can't read me scum because Steveling bla bla". That's didging an argument, Steveling not posting has nothing to do with if gumshoe is scum or not
- As Balla already pointed out then gumshoe calls me mafia for this. In case gumshoe's logic as town was "you can't call me scum because the other dude has not posted" he can't based on his own logic call me mafia for that. The point is not if this is true or not, the point is if gumshoe thinks this is a good heuristic he can't possibly forget it when it comes to me. He is selectively choosing to apply his heuristics when they benefit him and forget's them when they don't.
- gumshoe refuses to comment on my arguments on his case on me. Instead of telling people why i am wrong (i must be if i am scum and he has a good case on me right?) he only makes the same case again and hammers the same answered points over and over again. See my pretty picture. That's not how townies work.
Thank you for reading. ~rayn So Steveling has town read on rayn; there's a lack of debunking of rayn's case by gumshoe; steveling likes rayn's case. How can this guy not just call gumshoe scumshoe here. I really don't get it. The thing that I find odd about this in particular is that if you read Gumshoe's post in context, then it's super easy to dismiss Rayn's point 2. Point 1 from Rayn's case is far more convincing and a better point imo (although I personally don't find any of Rayn's case convincing). Point 3 I can seen from a lot of directions. The important thing here is that Steve should just be hammer Scumshoe into the ground here and pushing for Group 1 first. On April 03 2014 02:23 Steveling wrote:
I'm trying to figure this out, because so far they have being very townish.
But this is, well how should I put it, questionable?
Anyway, you can have your own opinion, illogical as it is.
At least make a case against me so I can defend myself. X swore on his life so he's legit is not much of an argument.
As I said earlier what everyone needs to do is defend themselves because a single lynch removes an entire cell from the game so I'll defend myself.
Just try to find a proper reason if you can? Dunno, this play of yours is very bad.
And one last thing, ryankoshi, you didn't respond to that, what if I also swear I'm town? I don't disagree with Steve here. Rayn's reason for flipping his read on gumshoe was weird/illogical/whatever. The odd response specifically is Steve's been super convinced that Gum is scum here; he's found gum's posting scummy, he's found rayn super town, he's liked rayn's case and thinks the points are scummy/damning. But the weird thing is that he's not hammering any of this shit home when gumshoe gets a freebie townread. I don't see why he's not just rehammering all of those arguments back into rayn if he reallys thinks Gum is scum. Overall, I think gum's town, I'm going to assume Rayn is town. Steve looks really odd and scummy so he hsould be lynch #2 this whole post states reasons why steve is more likely town You dont seem to think either me or Steve are scum so question!
hahaha, lol gum, nice try mate, ))).
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On April 05 2014 04:59 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 04:48 gumshoe wrote:On April 05 2014 04:41 Holyflare wrote:On April 05 2014 03:33 getmoript wrote:On April 03 2014 01:17 Steveling wrote:
Gum, when I started being active today first thing I did was filter you and raynkoshi.
You can check my post on them, frankly I didn't find a single anti town thing.
My view on them hasn't changed since then as well, their case on you was solid.
Anyway, we should get some heat from other cells as well, guys?
Promote discussion pls. This post really bugs me. Never in playing mafia have I ever found a filter with nothing I found bad in it. But what's even odder to me is the complete non-chalance before about Rayn/Gum. I think HF pinged me on this point earlier in the game and I remember it being odd, but in rereading it sticks out even more and more. Specifically, Steveling essentially made this huge case on Gumshoe where he ends up with a fence read. The thing that specifically bugs me is that in this setup, if I'm town and I have a super town read on someone else and a neutral read on the third person, then I'm going to read the fuck out of the third person to figure out what I'm missing and where I'm going wrong. It gets weirder: On April 02 2014 20:51 Steveling wrote:On April 02 2014 20:42 Holyflare wrote:On April 02 2014 20:39 Steveling wrote:
I read your thing against mderg, holyflare and tbh I'm not convinced.
Also I'm waiting for you to answer palmar's questions about mdergs meta filter.
Everyone with soft posts and inactivity and fluff is scum candidate but you seem way too fixated on him for some reason. Regardless, if you don't agree with what i said then what conclusions do you draw from the people that agreed with me when i said it? Are they then mafia for sheeping onto a town or what? First, if I had to bet on it, I'd say he's town. Now about the people that bus'd him Tehpoofter and getript seemingly blindly jump on him. Definitely suspicious for me. Gumshoe's suspicion I think is kinda silly, why would mderg defend me like that out of the blue, it would be literally the worst mafia play ever.Balla doesn't really hard claim him as scum as the others, he's just saying that his filter is scammy/inactive/fluff. So, can't form an opinion on balla based on that. Raynkoshi made the connection between mderg and gum but and raynkoshi so far gets a town read in my book so there's that. I like the joke there and laughed "I think he's town but about those people bussing him..." The weird thing here is that he again calls RaynKoshi town and calls Gum's suspicion silly. There's really too much of this to ignore. On April 02 2014 23:55 Steveling wrote:
Alright, I just had the time to properly read raynkoshi's case and gum's um, lack of debunking?
About the trap thing, raynkoshi's 1st point, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt gum.
I explained earlier that I find that part of your game flawed but genuinely your style and mby town play. Same thing you did when we played together. You are still in the wrong but I'm passing it by.
The 2nd point they made is very very legit though. Rare are the cases where the town benefits if they lynch their own.
That holds for a normal setup though, for this setup in which after each lynch a whole cell goes OUT of the game your "don't give a crap what you think about me" is inherently scum.
I'm surprised you can't see it for yourself.
I was willing to give you even more time to explain yourself right until that part.
Their 3rd point also stands and you still don't give a damn. You are not making it easy mate.
You don't have my vote of confidence anymore. + Show Spoiler [Rayn's case] +On April 02 2014 22:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Here is why gumshoe is mafia and we should be lynching him:
Point #1: gumshoe's bait and why it does not make sense from town perspective and proves he is scum:Here is the full conversation regarding this: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not. I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not? ~rayn Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 06:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not. I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not? ~rayn I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / : Now here other stuff happens and both of me and gumshoe discuss other things. Later on i revisit the argument and it bothers me because it looks weird. I ask gumshoe this: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 08:40 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I am trying so hard to think about this post and what the fuck is the point of all this. gumshoe what's the point of all this? On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote:
I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
I don't believe this. I don't believe this for one second. ~rayn Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 08:52 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:43 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
yes please.
~rayn I was offering an olive branch to see your reaction. No I wasn't honestly going after Steve with so little, but you know I'm capable of weird arguments like that so If your scum you have to consider 2 things, if I'm genuine and if your better off tentatively agreeing with me or turning on me for that silly read. Now read the red part and the green part. Both are gumshoe's answers. Both cannot possibly be true. Agreed? Yes, good. Now this leads us to the following: gumshoe says he laid a trap on me and i did not take the bait. Okay, maybe this is true. However why this is scummy is because the trap and the conclusion from it happened before gumshoe makes his green explanation. If it was truly a trap gumshoe has his conclusion already. In this case he would post the red part instead of lying and posting the green part in the first place. There is absolutely no reason to lie about the motivation behind your argument when asked, especially when you have already gotten your conclusion!!There is no town motivation for gumshoe to do what he did. This also leads me to:
Point #2: gumshoe's contradicting stance regarding readability and what it means:I made a post about this already. It's here: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 10:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game (where he was town) half past D1. I also found this: On March 28 2014 01:53 gumshoe wrote:On March 28 2014 01:30 Holyflare wrote:
because it is so wrong, not reading your pm enables you to be towny because you have no hesitation about finding your partner at that point because you don't know who he is so your entire reason for voting palmar is incredibly weird.....
not to mention he actually claimed scum, why haven't you commented on that instead? Cause I'm not there yet : P and I disagree, bieng readable is a big part of bieng town, if you make your self unreadable you can't be trusted. I'm not going to argue with you about this because it's retarded to think otherwise. However as me and gumshoe talk about being readable in this game his stance is this: On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm. ~rayn "Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. Here i present you our first...... Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!! ezpz ~rayn Look at the post. - In the green part gumshoe, as town in the last game we played, claims his stance. He says "being readable is a big part of good town play. It's retarded to think otherwise."
- In the red part gumshoe claims his stance in this game. You need to remember this has to do with the point #1 i presented. I have an argument that gumshoe is mafia because he is lying. I want to know why gumshoe is lying and if he has an explanation regarding why it makes sense to lie here as town. His stance is "why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? If you can't read me, that's not my fault."
Why this is scummy? Because town!gumshoe PROVABLY thinks the exact opposite he claims in this game. He only says what he does in this game because he lied and can't explain it in any other way. His explanation does not match with what town!gumshoe thinks. Noone can possibly have a contradicting stance on what is the optimal play for a townie regarding being readable or not when they are town, it's impossible, regardless of the game or situation!
Point #3: gumshoe is dodging arguments and working against his own heuristics + :I'll just make a list of these: - gumshoe refuses to answer my case on him and fearmongers something about "you can't read me scum because Steveling bla bla". That's didging an argument, Steveling not posting has nothing to do with if gumshoe is scum or not
- As Balla already pointed out then gumshoe calls me mafia for this. In case gumshoe's logic as town was "you can't call me scum because the other dude has not posted" he can't based on his own logic call me mafia for that. The point is not if this is true or not, the point is if gumshoe thinks this is a good heuristic he can't possibly forget it when it comes to me. He is selectively choosing to apply his heuristics when they benefit him and forget's them when they don't.
- gumshoe refuses to comment on my arguments on his case on me. Instead of telling people why i am wrong (i must be if i am scum and he has a good case on me right?) he only makes the same case again and hammers the same answered points over and over again. See my pretty picture. That's not how townies work.
Thank you for reading. ~rayn So Steveling has town read on rayn; there's a lack of debunking of rayn's case by gumshoe; steveling likes rayn's case. How can this guy not just call gumshoe scumshoe here. I really don't get it. The thing that I find odd about this in particular is that if you read Gumshoe's post in context, then it's super easy to dismiss Rayn's point 2. Point 1 from Rayn's case is far more convincing and a better point imo (although I personally don't find any of Rayn's case convincing). Point 3 I can seen from a lot of directions. The important thing here is that Steve should just be hammer Scumshoe into the ground here and pushing for Group 1 first. On April 03 2014 02:23 Steveling wrote:
I'm trying to figure this out, because so far they have being very townish.
But this is, well how should I put it, questionable?
Anyway, you can have your own opinion, illogical as it is.
At least make a case against me so I can defend myself. X swore on his life so he's legit is not much of an argument.
As I said earlier what everyone needs to do is defend themselves because a single lynch removes an entire cell from the game so I'll defend myself.
Just try to find a proper reason if you can? Dunno, this play of yours is very bad.
And one last thing, ryankoshi, you didn't respond to that, what if I also swear I'm town? I don't disagree with Steve here. Rayn's reason for flipping his read on gumshoe was weird/illogical/whatever. The odd response specifically is Steve's been super convinced that Gum is scum here; he's found gum's posting scummy, he's found rayn super town, he's liked rayn's case and thinks the points are scummy/damning. But the weird thing is that he's not hammering any of this shit home when gumshoe gets a freebie townread. I don't see why he's not just rehammering all of those arguments back into rayn if he reallys thinks Gum is scum. Overall, I think gum's town, I'm going to assume Rayn is town. Steve looks really odd and scummy so he hsould be lynch #2 this whole post states reasons why steve is more likely town You dont seem to think either me or Steve are scum so question! hahaha, lol gum, nice try mate, ))).
But I am town mate ) : why go after Plamar if I'm scum?
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@Gumshoe, why are you so sycophantic now:
On April 03 2014 00:22 gumshoe wrote:
Like, Rayn, we agree Steve is town right? Therefore, either way at least one scum player is extremely active. If that scum player is you, that means the most active player in the game (who has had several active players, such as Holy and Balla back him up at certain points,) is scum. If I'm scum on the other hand, my team could be lurking, or not, but I am still extremely active. If we know that one of the two most active players in the game is scum, why is it so hard to bilieve that the scum team as a whole is active? Thats certainly the case if Rayn is scum, which I know he is.
On April 03 2014 00:59 gumshoe wrote:
Rayn, we agree steve is town, can we agree to vote him mayor?
On April 03 2014 01:12 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 01:08 Steveling wrote:
I read your mayor post raynkoshi.
Honestly you are probably my most town read so I don't have a problem.
As for me I don't have a clue about mayor'ing and stuff.
Do we want scum or town mayor in this setup? Scum want to be mayor and I dont want scum to get what they want, therefore we want a town mayor and I want you to be that mayor. Steve, this thread has 5 scum and you are the only person who has even considered Im town, on paper there is a 50 percent chance Rayn is scum to you, look at my scum games, I dont try this hard, I dont have it in me. I swear on my life I am town. Rayn CAN play this well, I'm sorry that I'm not as good as him ) : but I am trying my best.
On April 04 2014 11:54 gumshoe wrote:
Hmm Coag is silly, as per usual, question is he scum / :
I will say I dont like how blatant he was about wanting to lynch Slam just cause whatever. He offered no read on Slam of his own and that was literally his only read XD. I have no issue killing Coag at the moment, I think sent is super town, which leaves Plamar who I'll dive next to see if I can tie him to Rayn.
##Vote: Coagulation
Also how is Coag so sure Rayns scum? His reasoning was dumb, Artanis made the only call he could possibly make to not break the game. That doesnt auto clear me and Steve. Its likely Rayn's scum, but he didnt outright claim and he was drunk so who the hell knows.
Sigh, all this bullshit is pretty much my fault T_T.
On April 04 2014 11:56 gumshoe wrote:
FYI I'm using Coag as a vote warmer for now as I really do hope hes scum, but yeah, not rulling out Plamar, only sent seems clean to me.
On April 04 2014 12:02 gumshoe wrote:
Also Coag, you say you know Rayn is scum, sent pushed Rayn and called me town before all this bullshit, does that not clear him?
^^is this why you started making these posts?
On April 04 2014 12:10 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2014 12:09 Coagulation wrote:
how do you play mafia here and dont understand scum bus What reason is there to bus? Sents word carries weight, Rayn was in the best position still despite everything that went down (we did vote him for mayor you know) what point is there to working against your team in the group your most likely to win?
On April 04 2014 13:07 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2014 12:55 Coagulation wrote:
wat a fucking joke. yeah ok guys if everyone placeholders a vote on coag its really a coag lynch and u guys are being cowards about it. Coag, please answer all my questions, dont fight me if your town T_T does this help? ##UnvoteFirst things first, I need you realize that Sent is town, it was Plam who was wrong about my alignment and probally Rayns. Also this Tehpoofter Palmer This doesn't mesh well with this / : Show nested quote +I'm not going to wifom myself into thinking you really don't give a shit as town. This is a clear contradiction and I really dont think he cares about this lynch so long as it's not on him. Which is why hes so eager to hide behind a "if hes town, he deserves to get lynched" mentality.
On April 04 2014 13:08 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2014 12:57 Coagulation wrote:
w/e this is my last post. town deserves to lose so i dont even feel bad nooooo come back T_T
On April 04 2014 13:42 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2014 13:38 Alakaslam wrote:On April 04 2014 13:34 gumshoe wrote:On April 04 2014 13:31 Alakaslam wrote:On April 04 2014 13:28 gumshoe wrote:On April 04 2014 13:25 Alakaslam wrote:On April 04 2014 11:54 gumshoe wrote:
Hmm Coag is silly, as per usual, question is he scum / :
I will say I dont like how blatant he was about wanting to lynch Slam just cause whatever. He offered no read on Slam of his own and that was literally his only read XD. I have no issue killing Coag at the moment, I think sent is super town, which leaves Plamar who I'll dive next to see if I can tie him to Rayn.
##Vote: Coagulation
Also how is Coag so sure Rayns scum? His reasoning was dumb, Artanis made the only call he could possibly make to not break the game. That doesnt auto clear me and Steve. Its likely Rayn's scum, but he didnt outright claim and he was drunk so who the hell knows.
Sigh, all this bullshit is pretty much my fault T_T. Wait When coagguss wants lynch this Alakaslam? Seriusly? Your his only scum read. lynch slam. rayns meta read is spot on and if all else fails slam makes a fantastic policy lynch cause he regularely does super dumb shit like claim scum as town its just slam i have a read on so the other two r prolly town Lol coagguss U r scum with rayn Why cant he just be Coag? Coag is no fool And he isn't Rayn's bithc either. He know though this Alakaslam ez LHF So ez push ez win But Town he knows probabilities not like this. He would simply be hush, in setup like tgis Also, as a CHUPAZI of OMGUS, he flies above, dropping the turdz*, & stuff. He dropped a turd with the "policy lynch"- he knows the setup he knows you don't policy here Dasrite folks he call us the fools he does You are a wonderful human bieng Slam :D please keep talking, any other reads on stuff? Do you think theres a chance Rayn is town?
gum goes to sleep, he wakes up and he stops thinking I'm super town
On April 05 2014 00:56 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 00:50 Palmar wrote:
You have no idea if I'm wrong or not unless you're mafia. wtf are you talking about palmar, no I dont know for bloody certain, but when does anyone know anything for certain in this game except scum?! We make pushes by reading into people and wondering why they do the things they do, I havent just said his claim makes him scum, I have also provided reasoning for why it does. As I would with any opinion of mine. Having no 100 precent idea of something doesnt mean we should just sit on our asses and not read into what Rayn did. Btw Palmar no offence, I do look up to you : P and legit think your damm good at this game despite what bits of mean I've thrown your way, but are you getting as annoyed by my posts as I am of yours? Just curios XD
On April 05 2014 02:54 gumshoe wrote:
Anyways, I gotta go for a bit, when I come back I'll try to throw a direct case on Plam together. gl getting the wool out of your eyes town : D
^^The emoticon really changes the tone of this post
On April 05 2014 03:08 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 02:59 Palmar wrote:
Wanting a 1 for 1 lynch is basically a scum claim. We also confirm me if we get the lynch between coag and sent right No, if its coag, it could be sent, if its sent, it could be coag, it says nothing about your alignment. I am throwing away a cell I have effectively won, not because I am scum, but because I am a pompous know it all townie who thinks hes solved the game : P and am willing to bet everything to be right.
On April 05 2014 03:29 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 03:23 Holyflare wrote:
You probably shouldn't be listening to what i say this game though Oh come on man, who are they going to listen to instead?! ME??!!!! I need you Holy T_T if your town too were not likely to win this without you.
On April 05 2014 03:35 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +Palmar is probably the player I have the hardest time reading in this game. It's going to be hard trying to figure the scum in my own cell, even. Sent is caught between an extremely competent player who I believe HAS played us, just as sent fears, and one of the most infamous townie goats on Tl. This sentiment doesn't make him scum / :
On April 05 2014 03:54 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 03:51 Steveling wrote:On April 05 2014 03:06 gumshoe wrote:On April 05 2014 02:56 Steveling wrote:On April 05 2014 02:48 gumshoe wrote:
Ok, lets make this simple shall we? You have said over and over that I am not this dumb and therefore scum. Palmer, my group was likely to be a no lynch, if we lynch you today and your green, we can just lynch me on day 3. No take backsies. Its a 1 for 1 if im wrong and scum. But if I'm right, this whole game turns on its head. I mean, your done today no matter what, so whats wrong with the trade?
People are unwilling to consider Plam and Rayn because they have played well, but they can do that as scum / : Rayn has claimed scum and despite the circumstance of that, is Plamar not more likely scum if Rayn is telling the truth? If we lynch Coag or sent, who gives a shit, we will learn absolutely nothing, lynch palmar though and we can reveal how this game has been controlled by scum since the start.
Not according to me and some others, lol. As for the rest of your post, first of all rayn hasn't claimed. He did and then he town claimed, he even left his "last will" reads to to speak. Some people think he scum claimed, some not but for a most people he didn't scumclaim. People who know him well say that he did, like HF. People who don't, say that he didn't, like prplz. Second, your point would be valid in a normal setup. You are telling us to lynch palmar to get reads off of it?In a game which whole cells are removed after a lynch? Really? In what world is that logical. Scum can bus whomever they want exactly because this is a cell removal setup. You have no solid reason to say what you just said. Honestly gum, make some sense pls, talk to me. Target whomever you want but make valid points pls. No, your totally wrong, we get more out of lynching for info in this setup, because 1: the person is going to die anyways, so we dont lose anything but the point when we kill them. 2: Your looking at it the wrong way bus wise, you think scum can bus any cell, its not like that, think of it as an election, say your scum team is rayn mdern palmer prplz slam You CANNOT throw the cells your are likely to win (ie plamar and rayn) you want to work to make sure those cells pan out no matter what because the mdern and slam cells can very well fail (leaving prp as a swing vote. It's like an election, where each side feels they can win certain states, and only like 12 are in the balance. If you have palmar in a cell with coag and sent, there is no reason palmar should lose that match and scum should do as much as they can to make sure that doesnt happen, thereby leaving clear connections. No no and no. This is wrong, period. You don't lynch anyone with the end game in mind in this setup, I think that's clear. On April 05 2014 03:06 gumshoe wrote:
No, your totally wrong, we get more out of lynching for info in this setup, because 1: the person is going to die anyways, so we dont lose anything but the point when we kill them. I'll push for a lynch on you when our time comes if you keep going with this logic. How can you not get that this is criminal? This is the post you wanted me to see and comment on? facepalm Sigh. Steve I truly thought you were a better player than this ) : Scum know they can win certain cells over others. Thats not planning for an endgame because they literally dont know what the end game is (they cant be sure that theyll secure the order until they actually have) they merely know which cells to focus on.
On April 05 2014 04:00 gumshoe wrote:
Also Steve, if I'm scum, why go after the one guy in this cell no one wants to lynch? I would be making this game personally hard for myself, as I would have all game long. You need to start considering me town because everything thats happened this game makes no sense if I'm scum, I might be stupid, but I'm not scum ) :
^^Mission accomplished?
On April 05 2014 04:14 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 04:04 Steveling wrote:
I don't know about palmar but if you want to lynch me tomorrow, be my guests.
Town will be most probably 1 point away from losing after that. I dont wanna lynch you Steve ) : your town, Rayn is scum, he is one of the best scum players on tl. Do you really think I'm scum Steve? Seriusly? I know your town, because if you were scum all you would have to do is call Rayn scum and your in the clear, the fact that you still suspect me proves to me your town and not just looking to survive. I KNOW your town now, so I know Rayn is scum, and Rayn's behaviur with sent and coag is not scum on scum. His behaviur twoards Palmer is. Open your eyes, lynch Palmer, kill me if it doesn't profit.
^^Everything about this post.
On April 05 2014 04:48 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 04:41 Holyflare wrote:On April 05 2014 03:33 getmoript wrote:On April 03 2014 01:17 Steveling wrote:
Gum, when I started being active today first thing I did was filter you and raynkoshi.
You can check my post on them, frankly I didn't find a single anti town thing.
My view on them hasn't changed since then as well, their case on you was solid.
Anyway, we should get some heat from other cells as well, guys?
Promote discussion pls. This post really bugs me. Never in playing mafia have I ever found a filter with nothing I found bad in it. But what's even odder to me is the complete non-chalance before about Rayn/Gum. I think HF pinged me on this point earlier in the game and I remember it being odd, but in rereading it sticks out even more and more. Specifically, Steveling essentially made this huge case on Gumshoe where he ends up with a fence read. The thing that specifically bugs me is that in this setup, if I'm town and I have a super town read on someone else and a neutral read on the third person, then I'm going to read the fuck out of the third person to figure out what I'm missing and where I'm going wrong. It gets weirder: On April 02 2014 20:51 Steveling wrote:On April 02 2014 20:42 Holyflare wrote:On April 02 2014 20:39 Steveling wrote:
I read your thing against mderg, holyflare and tbh I'm not convinced.
Also I'm waiting for you to answer palmar's questions about mdergs meta filter.
Everyone with soft posts and inactivity and fluff is scum candidate but you seem way too fixated on him for some reason. Regardless, if you don't agree with what i said then what conclusions do you draw from the people that agreed with me when i said it? Are they then mafia for sheeping onto a town or what? First, if I had to bet on it, I'd say he's town. Now about the people that bus'd him Tehpoofter and getript seemingly blindly jump on him. Definitely suspicious for me. Gumshoe's suspicion I think is kinda silly, why would mderg defend me like that out of the blue, it would be literally the worst mafia play ever.Balla doesn't really hard claim him as scum as the others, he's just saying that his filter is scammy/inactive/fluff. So, can't form an opinion on balla based on that. Raynkoshi made the connection between mderg and gum but and raynkoshi so far gets a town read in my book so there's that. I like the joke there and laughed "I think he's town but about those people bussing him..." The weird thing here is that he again calls RaynKoshi town and calls Gum's suspicion silly. There's really too much of this to ignore. On April 02 2014 23:55 Steveling wrote:
Alright, I just had the time to properly read raynkoshi's case and gum's um, lack of debunking?
About the trap thing, raynkoshi's 1st point, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt gum.
I explained earlier that I find that part of your game flawed but genuinely your style and mby town play. Same thing you did when we played together. You are still in the wrong but I'm passing it by.
The 2nd point they made is very very legit though. Rare are the cases where the town benefits if they lynch their own.
That holds for a normal setup though, for this setup in which after each lynch a whole cell goes OUT of the game your "don't give a crap what you think about me" is inherently scum.
I'm surprised you can't see it for yourself.
I was willing to give you even more time to explain yourself right until that part.
Their 3rd point also stands and you still don't give a damn. You are not making it easy mate.
You don't have my vote of confidence anymore. + Show Spoiler [Rayn's case] +On April 02 2014 22:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Here is why gumshoe is mafia and we should be lynching him:
Point #1: gumshoe's bait and why it does not make sense from town perspective and proves he is scum:Here is the full conversation regarding this: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not. I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not? ~rayn Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 06:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not. I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not? ~rayn I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / : Now here other stuff happens and both of me and gumshoe discuss other things. Later on i revisit the argument and it bothers me because it looks weird. I ask gumshoe this: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 08:40 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I am trying so hard to think about this post and what the fuck is the point of all this. gumshoe what's the point of all this? On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote:
I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
I don't believe this. I don't believe this for one second. ~rayn Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 08:52 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:43 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
yes please.
~rayn I was offering an olive branch to see your reaction. No I wasn't honestly going after Steve with so little, but you know I'm capable of weird arguments like that so If your scum you have to consider 2 things, if I'm genuine and if your better off tentatively agreeing with me or turning on me for that silly read. Now read the red part and the green part. Both are gumshoe's answers. Both cannot possibly be true. Agreed? Yes, good. Now this leads us to the following: gumshoe says he laid a trap on me and i did not take the bait. Okay, maybe this is true. However why this is scummy is because the trap and the conclusion from it happened before gumshoe makes his green explanation. If it was truly a trap gumshoe has his conclusion already. In this case he would post the red part instead of lying and posting the green part in the first place. There is absolutely no reason to lie about the motivation behind your argument when asked, especially when you have already gotten your conclusion!!There is no town motivation for gumshoe to do what he did. This also leads me to:
Point #2: gumshoe's contradicting stance regarding readability and what it means:I made a post about this already. It's here: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 10:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game (where he was town) half past D1. I also found this: On March 28 2014 01:53 gumshoe wrote:On March 28 2014 01:30 Holyflare wrote:
because it is so wrong, not reading your pm enables you to be towny because you have no hesitation about finding your partner at that point because you don't know who he is so your entire reason for voting palmar is incredibly weird.....
not to mention he actually claimed scum, why haven't you commented on that instead? Cause I'm not there yet : P and I disagree, bieng readable is a big part of bieng town, if you make your self unreadable you can't be trusted. I'm not going to argue with you about this because it's retarded to think otherwise. However as me and gumshoe talk about being readable in this game his stance is this: On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm. ~rayn "Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. Here i present you our first...... Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!! ezpz ~rayn Look at the post. - In the green part gumshoe, as town in the last game we played, claims his stance. He says "being readable is a big part of good town play. It's retarded to think otherwise."
- In the red part gumshoe claims his stance in this game. You need to remember this has to do with the point #1 i presented. I have an argument that gumshoe is mafia because he is lying. I want to know why gumshoe is lying and if he has an explanation regarding why it makes sense to lie here as town. His stance is "why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? If you can't read me, that's not my fault."
Why this is scummy? Because town!gumshoe PROVABLY thinks the exact opposite he claims in this game. He only says what he does in this game because he lied and can't explain it in any other way. His explanation does not match with what town!gumshoe thinks. Noone can possibly have a contradicting stance on what is the optimal play for a townie regarding being readable or not when they are town, it's impossible, regardless of the game or situation!
Point #3: gumshoe is dodging arguments and working against his own heuristics + :I'll just make a list of these: - gumshoe refuses to answer my case on him and fearmongers something about "you can't read me scum because Steveling bla bla". That's didging an argument, Steveling not posting has nothing to do with if gumshoe is scum or not
- As Balla already pointed out then gumshoe calls me mafia for this. In case gumshoe's logic as town was "you can't call me scum because the other dude has not posted" he can't based on his own logic call me mafia for that. The point is not if this is true or not, the point is if gumshoe thinks this is a good heuristic he can't possibly forget it when it comes to me. He is selectively choosing to apply his heuristics when they benefit him and forget's them when they don't.
- gumshoe refuses to comment on my arguments on his case on me. Instead of telling people why i am wrong (i must be if i am scum and he has a good case on me right?) he only makes the same case again and hammers the same answered points over and over again. See my pretty picture. That's not how townies work.
Thank you for reading. ~rayn So Steveling has town read on rayn; there's a lack of debunking of rayn's case by gumshoe; steveling likes rayn's case. How can this guy not just call gumshoe scumshoe here. I really don't get it. The thing that I find odd about this in particular is that if you read Gumshoe's post in context, then it's super easy to dismiss Rayn's point 2. Point 1 from Rayn's case is far more convincing and a better point imo (although I personally don't find any of Rayn's case convincing). Point 3 I can seen from a lot of directions. The important thing here is that Steve should just be hammer Scumshoe into the ground here and pushing for Group 1 first. On April 03 2014 02:23 Steveling wrote:
I'm trying to figure this out, because so far they have being very townish.
But this is, well how should I put it, questionable?
Anyway, you can have your own opinion, illogical as it is.
At least make a case against me so I can defend myself. X swore on his life so he's legit is not much of an argument.
As I said earlier what everyone needs to do is defend themselves because a single lynch removes an entire cell from the game so I'll defend myself.
Just try to find a proper reason if you can? Dunno, this play of yours is very bad.
And one last thing, ryankoshi, you didn't respond to that, what if I also swear I'm town? I don't disagree with Steve here. Rayn's reason for flipping his read on gumshoe was weird/illogical/whatever. The odd response specifically is Steve's been super convinced that Gum is scum here; he's found gum's posting scummy, he's found rayn super town, he's liked rayn's case and thinks the points are scummy/damning. But the weird thing is that he's not hammering any of this shit home when gumshoe gets a freebie townread. I don't see why he's not just rehammering all of those arguments back into rayn if he reallys thinks Gum is scum. Overall, I think gum's town, I'm going to assume Rayn is town. Steve looks really odd and scummy so he hsould be lynch #2 this whole post states reasons why steve is more likely town You dont seem to think either me or Steve are scum so question! Holy, do you see Rayn bieng as sympathetic yet resigned to lynch as he was to Coag if they were scum together? As for Sent, he does nothing to even remotely help him survive his cell and sent is a perfectly good ally / : so theres no reason to abandon him like Rayn did. He clearly favours Palmer, does that not mean anything? Is it that unlikely that they're both scum?
The theme I see starting page 5 of your filter is you being overly friendly with everyone, including the people you're against. Lots of emoticons and self-deprecation. You attach onto whoever defends you and try and calm down anyone who attacks you.
This is very scummy. This doesn't look like fear; it's constant and is used according to the situation in the game. This looks calculated and thought out.
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On April 05 2014 04:59 gumshoe wrote:OK but you do at least see my point? If I am town, which I am(Rayns a phony!) it's far more likely Rayn is scum than Steve to me, and Rayn's interactions with Palmer are the only ones that seem Scum on scumish. Doth though agree?
umm he's not a phony he literally told me because he was mad at you so... whatever i'm just going to ignore your attempts
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It is totally calculated Sent. 10000 PERCENT I am doing everything I can possibly imagine to get Palmer lynched. I am appealing to emotion, to reason, to ego. Because I want to lynch scum and I want to know if I was right.
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On April 05 2014 05:01 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 04:59 gumshoe wrote:On April 05 2014 04:50 Holyflare wrote:
gg =/
OK but you do at least see my point? If I am town, which I am(Rayns a phony!) it's far more likely Rayn is scum than Steve to me, and Rayn's interactions with Palmer are the only ones that seem Scum on scumish. Doth though agree? umm he's not a phony he literally told me because he was mad at you so... whatever i'm just going to ignore your attempts
If Rayn is actually town he doesnt know what I am / : only way he knows my alignment is if hes scum and then I cant be scum. Especially because he was null on me when he quit, how would he know what I am? Why put so much faith in a angry player who is clearly mad at me and shouldn't know my alignment?
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On April 03 2014 13:02 Tehpoofter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 12:36 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On April 03 2014 12:19 Tehpoofter wrote:
So I'm really glad that I just read through 20 pages of gum/rayn fighting. Going into it I had a town read on rayn scum on gum and null on steve. Coming out of it gum looks even scummier steve looks scummy and so does rayn tbh. (there has to be 2 towns in each group right?)
Like I could make cases on all of you guys,
GUM: basically to me Rayn's case on gum is really strong he pretends to set some trap that doesn't work (but seems like it would only catch town if it did work) and then calls rayn scum for it. I thought rayn refuted his claim pretty well and answered some questions on it. Balla brought up a good point last night about how gum accussed rayn of doing the same thing he was doing in ignoring steve and being scummy for it. I think gum went into mega defensive mode and just started throwing shit at rayn and rayn did the same until rayn saw gum say he swears hes town. Tell me what scum gum's rationale would be for blatantly ignoring rayn's criticisms when rayn is one of the most sheep-able people on this forum.
Rayn: Looks good for his case on gum then does this 180 and instantly believes him on the thing he said about swearing. I find it really odd that logical rayn town would drop his biggest case on someone he knows has a 50/50 of being scum just because he said one thing. This makes rayn look scummier in my eyes because he might have felt like others would see that and if he kept tunneling he would out himself if he were scum so he hipster switched so he could be the first one to say thats the case. (For me this means nothing btw its a game about lying I expect anyone in here would say anything to not look more town as scum and I would never fault anyone for it, I'd swear on my grandma's grave I was town and my grandma isn't even dead) So I find this really odd of rayn to switch here.
Steve: Steve then has like the weirdest reaction ever and says someone is cheating and starts getting all emo and bent out of shape about something that to me just made his cellmate rayn look more scummy and changed nothing on my read on gum. So If I was steve I would be asking the mod why he put two scum in my group not going on about cheating and such.
Last I checked, Steve had a townread on rayn and was very timidly pointing his finger at gum. This whole thing about setup being botched is a joke IMO. Even if they didn't change your opinions on gum/steve, could you give me some thoughts on the interactions between the two of them? As in Steve's thoughts on gum and vice versa
So after 20 pages of bullshit-in-fighting of one cell if this were a normal game I'd probably lynch all of them and assume I hit at least 2 scum. In this game sadly only 1 is scum and 2 are town. So rayn's case on gum looks like it comes from a town point of view and maybe he is just a reactionary player and did the swap onto steve because he has some weird set of mafia morals that I would never follow so I'll give rayn the town pass here. (Now later on in the thread I think he makes other contributions to be more townie as well so this got strengthened even more so)
Steve emo quitting reminds me of rayn doing the same thing in Titanic about coag being a hydra. Rayn emod for a couple hours and turned out to be town here so I'm going to assume thats what is happening here cause I still haven't seen gum do anything really very townie and there can be only one scum. (I also have more reasons on steve here in a second based on another read.)
Rayn is not Steve, and the reasons they gave up hope were completely different and under different circumstances. Rayn continued to post very actively while Steve seems to have gone off the radar as he came closer and closer to bedtime, although that might change tomorrow. This is probably the weakest point in your argument.
Right now Scum=Gum, Rayn = Town, Steve = Town cause gum is scum.
I'd just like to say this is exactly what scum would have wanted in this game and why my plan was amazing and if you guys focused elsewhere the reads would be more spread out and varied and could be scumx2 or 3xtown or something but instead we have 20 pages of fighting that might net us 1 scum and thats only if one becomes obvious which to me it hasnt. /end rant on my system as I still read Balla/Rayn as town and they both think its shit.
More on other scum that popped up during the Cell 1 Battle royale.
Where do I say that he ignored his questioning? I don't think he did he just answered them poorly like didn't respond well. Setup being botchered is a joke? <<<i don't understand this maybe I'm misreading but I don't get this point. I did see steve leaning on gum being mafia and actually was reading that townie (cause I was and am thinking the same thing) I'd have to go look at some of their direct interactions but I don't remember anything specific what point were you getting at with this? The last point is mainly me just being butt hurt they didn't like my plan tbh and isn't really an accusation on anyone. @sentinel I really don't understand your first two points all that much maybe I'm missing something. I'm about to get off work but I'll be back around in 30 minutes and look more thoroughly on what you said I might have read it to quick.
By "questioning", I specifically meant rayn asking gum why he's so averse to being read or giving out his thoughts to people.
I answered the "joke" bit in my defense against Steve, but basically I consider the whole thing to be nonessential in itself. Although I suspect gumshoe.
I wasn't looking for specifics on gum vs. steve or attacking any point in that part of your argument, I just wanted you to elaborate a bit on your thoughts.
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On April 05 2014 05:03 gumshoe wrote:
It is totally calculated Sent. 10000 PERCENT I am doing everything I can possibly imagine to get Palmer lynched. I am appealing to emotion, to reason, to ego. Because I want to lynch scum and I want to know if I was right.
It looks to me like you're doing everything you can possibly imagine to survive and survive without attention.
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On April 05 2014 05:03 gumshoe wrote:
It is totally calculated Sent. 10000 PERCENT I am doing everything I can possibly imagine to get Palmer lynched. I am appealing to emotion, to reason, to ego. Because I want to lynch scum and I want to know if I was right.
By everything you mean everything except call me mafia for anything I have posted myself.
Hell, you haven't even considered the possibility that if rayn is mafia he might simply have been calling me town because he knows I tend to lynch people that call me scum.
But that would obviously not fit your agenda, so let's just disregard it!
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On April 05 2014 05:08 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 05:03 gumshoe wrote:
It is totally calculated Sent. 10000 PERCENT I am doing everything I can possibly imagine to get Palmer lynched. I am appealing to emotion, to reason, to ego. Because I want to lynch scum and I want to know if I was right. By everything you mean everything except call me mafia for anything I have posted myself. Hell, you haven't even considered the possibility that if rayn is mafia he might simply have been calling me town because he knows I tend to lynch people that call me scum. But that would obviously not fit your agenda, so let's just disregard it!
Eh, I'll get to your actual filter eventually, theres alot to read there / :
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On April 05 2014 05:08 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 05:03 gumshoe wrote:
It is totally calculated Sent. 10000 PERCENT I am doing everything I can possibly imagine to get Palmer lynched. I am appealing to emotion, to reason, to ego. Because I want to lynch scum and I want to know if I was right. By everything you mean everything except call me mafia for anything I have posted myself. Hell, you haven't even considered the possibility that if rayn is mafia he might simply have been calling me town because he knows I tend to lynch people that call me scum. But that would obviously not fit your agenda, so let's just disregard it!
Can you plz just vote Sent?
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I find it extremely hilarious that while sentinel was typing that post about gumshoe lying trying to manipulate situations, you did it again with this, lol
On April 05 2014 04:48 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 04:41 Holyflare wrote:On April 05 2014 03:33 getmoript wrote:On April 03 2014 01:17 Steveling wrote:
Gum, when I started being active today first thing I did was filter you and raynkoshi.
You can check my post on them, frankly I didn't find a single anti town thing.
My view on them hasn't changed since then as well, their case on you was solid.
Anyway, we should get some heat from other cells as well, guys?
Promote discussion pls. This post really bugs me. Never in playing mafia have I ever found a filter with nothing I found bad in it. But what's even odder to me is the complete non-chalance before about Rayn/Gum. I think HF pinged me on this point earlier in the game and I remember it being odd, but in rereading it sticks out even more and more. Specifically, Steveling essentially made this huge case on Gumshoe where he ends up with a fence read. The thing that specifically bugs me is that in this setup, if I'm town and I have a super town read on someone else and a neutral read on the third person, then I'm going to read the fuck out of the third person to figure out what I'm missing and where I'm going wrong. It gets weirder: On April 02 2014 20:51 Steveling wrote:On April 02 2014 20:42 Holyflare wrote:On April 02 2014 20:39 Steveling wrote:
I read your thing against mderg, holyflare and tbh I'm not convinced.
Also I'm waiting for you to answer palmar's questions about mdergs meta filter.
Everyone with soft posts and inactivity and fluff is scum candidate but you seem way too fixated on him for some reason. Regardless, if you don't agree with what i said then what conclusions do you draw from the people that agreed with me when i said it? Are they then mafia for sheeping onto a town or what? First, if I had to bet on it, I'd say he's town. Now about the people that bus'd him Tehpoofter and getript seemingly blindly jump on him. Definitely suspicious for me. Gumshoe's suspicion I think is kinda silly, why would mderg defend me like that out of the blue, it would be literally the worst mafia play ever.Balla doesn't really hard claim him as scum as the others, he's just saying that his filter is scammy/inactive/fluff. So, can't form an opinion on balla based on that. Raynkoshi made the connection between mderg and gum but and raynkoshi so far gets a town read in my book so there's that. I like the joke there and laughed "I think he's town but about those people bussing him..." The weird thing here is that he again calls RaynKoshi town and calls Gum's suspicion silly. There's really too much of this to ignore. On April 02 2014 23:55 Steveling wrote:
Alright, I just had the time to properly read raynkoshi's case and gum's um, lack of debunking?
About the trap thing, raynkoshi's 1st point, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt gum.
I explained earlier that I find that part of your game flawed but genuinely your style and mby town play. Same thing you did when we played together. You are still in the wrong but I'm passing it by.
The 2nd point they made is very very legit though. Rare are the cases where the town benefits if they lynch their own.
That holds for a normal setup though, for this setup in which after each lynch a whole cell goes OUT of the game your "don't give a crap what you think about me" is inherently scum.
I'm surprised you can't see it for yourself.
I was willing to give you even more time to explain yourself right until that part.
Their 3rd point also stands and you still don't give a damn. You are not making it easy mate.
You don't have my vote of confidence anymore. + Show Spoiler [Rayn's case] +On April 02 2014 22:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Here is why gumshoe is mafia and we should be lynching him:
Point #1: gumshoe's bait and why it does not make sense from town perspective and proves he is scum:Here is the full conversation regarding this: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not. I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not? ~rayn Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 06:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not. I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not? ~rayn I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / : Now here other stuff happens and both of me and gumshoe discuss other things. Later on i revisit the argument and it bothers me because it looks weird. I ask gumshoe this: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 08:40 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I am trying so hard to think about this post and what the fuck is the point of all this. gumshoe what's the point of all this? On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote:
I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
I don't believe this. I don't believe this for one second. ~rayn Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 08:52 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:43 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
yes please.
~rayn I was offering an olive branch to see your reaction. No I wasn't honestly going after Steve with so little, but you know I'm capable of weird arguments like that so If your scum you have to consider 2 things, if I'm genuine and if your better off tentatively agreeing with me or turning on me for that silly read. Now read the red part and the green part. Both are gumshoe's answers. Both cannot possibly be true. Agreed? Yes, good. Now this leads us to the following: gumshoe says he laid a trap on me and i did not take the bait. Okay, maybe this is true. However why this is scummy is because the trap and the conclusion from it happened before gumshoe makes his green explanation. If it was truly a trap gumshoe has his conclusion already. In this case he would post the red part instead of lying and posting the green part in the first place. There is absolutely no reason to lie about the motivation behind your argument when asked, especially when you have already gotten your conclusion!!There is no town motivation for gumshoe to do what he did. This also leads me to:
Point #2: gumshoe's contradicting stance regarding readability and what it means:I made a post about this already. It's here: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 10:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game (where he was town) half past D1. I also found this: On March 28 2014 01:53 gumshoe wrote:On March 28 2014 01:30 Holyflare wrote:
because it is so wrong, not reading your pm enables you to be towny because you have no hesitation about finding your partner at that point because you don't know who he is so your entire reason for voting palmar is incredibly weird.....
not to mention he actually claimed scum, why haven't you commented on that instead? Cause I'm not there yet : P and I disagree, bieng readable is a big part of bieng town, if you make your self unreadable you can't be trusted. I'm not going to argue with you about this because it's retarded to think otherwise. However as me and gumshoe talk about being readable in this game his stance is this: On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm. ~rayn "Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. Here i present you our first...... Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!! ezpz ~rayn Look at the post. - In the green part gumshoe, as town in the last game we played, claims his stance. He says "being readable is a big part of good town play. It's retarded to think otherwise."
- In the red part gumshoe claims his stance in this game. You need to remember this has to do with the point #1 i presented. I have an argument that gumshoe is mafia because he is lying. I want to know why gumshoe is lying and if he has an explanation regarding why it makes sense to lie here as town. His stance is "why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? If you can't read me, that's not my fault."
Why this is scummy? Because town!gumshoe PROVABLY thinks the exact opposite he claims in this game. He only says what he does in this game because he lied and can't explain it in any other way. His explanation does not match with what town!gumshoe thinks. Noone can possibly have a contradicting stance on what is the optimal play for a townie regarding being readable or not when they are town, it's impossible, regardless of the game or situation!
Point #3: gumshoe is dodging arguments and working against his own heuristics + :I'll just make a list of these: - gumshoe refuses to answer my case on him and fearmongers something about "you can't read me scum because Steveling bla bla". That's didging an argument, Steveling not posting has nothing to do with if gumshoe is scum or not
- As Balla already pointed out then gumshoe calls me mafia for this. In case gumshoe's logic as town was "you can't call me scum because the other dude has not posted" he can't based on his own logic call me mafia for that. The point is not if this is true or not, the point is if gumshoe thinks this is a good heuristic he can't possibly forget it when it comes to me. He is selectively choosing to apply his heuristics when they benefit him and forget's them when they don't.
- gumshoe refuses to comment on my arguments on his case on me. Instead of telling people why i am wrong (i must be if i am scum and he has a good case on me right?) he only makes the same case again and hammers the same answered points over and over again. See my pretty picture. That's not how townies work.
Thank you for reading. ~rayn So Steveling has town read on rayn; there's a lack of debunking of rayn's case by gumshoe; steveling likes rayn's case. How can this guy not just call gumshoe scumshoe here. I really don't get it. The thing that I find odd about this in particular is that if you read Gumshoe's post in context, then it's super easy to dismiss Rayn's point 2. Point 1 from Rayn's case is far more convincing and a better point imo (although I personally don't find any of Rayn's case convincing). Point 3 I can seen from a lot of directions. The important thing here is that Steve should just be hammer Scumshoe into the ground here and pushing for Group 1 first. On April 03 2014 02:23 Steveling wrote:
I'm trying to figure this out, because so far they have being very townish.
But this is, well how should I put it, questionable?
Anyway, you can have your own opinion, illogical as it is.
At least make a case against me so I can defend myself. X swore on his life so he's legit is not much of an argument.
As I said earlier what everyone needs to do is defend themselves because a single lynch removes an entire cell from the game so I'll defend myself.
Just try to find a proper reason if you can? Dunno, this play of yours is very bad.
And one last thing, ryankoshi, you didn't respond to that, what if I also swear I'm town? I don't disagree with Steve here. Rayn's reason for flipping his read on gumshoe was weird/illogical/whatever. The odd response specifically is Steve's been super convinced that Gum is scum here; he's found gum's posting scummy, he's found rayn super town, he's liked rayn's case and thinks the points are scummy/damning. But the weird thing is that he's not hammering any of this shit home when gumshoe gets a freebie townread. I don't see why he's not just rehammering all of those arguments back into rayn if he reallys thinks Gum is scum. Overall, I think gum's town, I'm going to assume Rayn is town. Steve looks really odd and scummy so he hsould be lynch #2 this whole post states reasons why steve is more likely town You dont seem to think either me or Steve are scum so question!
Anyway present a case with solid points first, not " OMG X SHOULD BE TOWN, SO Y IS SCUM, SO LETS MISSLYNCH TO GET INFO FOR THE LATEGAME " .
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On April 05 2014 05:08 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 05:03 gumshoe wrote:
It is totally calculated Sent. 10000 PERCENT I am doing everything I can possibly imagine to get Palmer lynched. I am appealing to emotion, to reason, to ego. Because I want to lynch scum and I want to know if I was right. By everything you mean everything except call me mafia for anything I have posted myself. Hell, you haven't even considered the possibility that if rayn is mafia he might simply have been calling me town because he knows I tend to lynch people that call me scum. But that would obviously not fit your agenda, so let's just disregard it!
How bout this. You say you're totes convinced by my case. Vote Sent. Then if town loses you can blame everything on me having a total shit read and you needing to play Catastrophe.
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On April 05 2014 05:09 getmoript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 05:08 Palmar wrote:On April 05 2014 05:03 gumshoe wrote:
It is totally calculated Sent. 10000 PERCENT I am doing everything I can possibly imagine to get Palmer lynched. I am appealing to emotion, to reason, to ego. Because I want to lynch scum and I want to know if I was right. By everything you mean everything except call me mafia for anything I have posted myself. Hell, you haven't even considered the possibility that if rayn is mafia he might simply have been calling me town because he knows I tend to lynch people that call me scum. But that would obviously not fit your agenda, so let's just disregard it! Can you plz just vote Sent?
I don't know honestly.
I hated his early game, most of his early posts are just complete fluff, but I like his latest post on scumshoe!
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On April 05 2014 05:11 getmoript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 05:08 Palmar wrote:On April 05 2014 05:03 gumshoe wrote:
It is totally calculated Sent. 10000 PERCENT I am doing everything I can possibly imagine to get Palmer lynched. I am appealing to emotion, to reason, to ego. Because I want to lynch scum and I want to know if I was right. By everything you mean everything except call me mafia for anything I have posted myself. Hell, you haven't even considered the possibility that if rayn is mafia he might simply have been calling me town because he knows I tend to lynch people that call me scum. But that would obviously not fit your agenda, so let's just disregard it! How bout this. You say you're totes convinced by my case. Vote Sent. Then if town loses you can blame everything on me having a total shit read and you needing to play Catastrophe.
But I'm not actually playing catastrophe, I'm kind of just there.
And I want to get this one right, I'm out after a day anyway so the least I can do is make sure I get my bracket right.
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I agree on latest sentinel post.
No matter how you see it, it's concrete stuff and while he was typing it gumshoe did exactly what sentinel described, lol.
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Rayn was not town. Move on. I already told you all why he wasn't.
We should be focusing on why there are still a boatload of votes on Coag who clearly doesn't give a shit about this game and lacks the connections to actually be scum in this case.
~Cav
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This is the kind of posting I like.
Not the coag endless meta upon meta upon I'm-not-reading-the-thread posts.
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On April 05 2014 05:11 Steveling wrote:I find it extremely hilarious that while sentinel was typing that post about gumshoe lying trying to manipulate situations, you did it again with this, lol Show nested quote +On April 05 2014 04:48 gumshoe wrote:On April 05 2014 04:41 Holyflare wrote:On April 05 2014 03:33 getmoript wrote:On April 03 2014 01:17 Steveling wrote:
Gum, when I started being active today first thing I did was filter you and raynkoshi.
You can check my post on them, frankly I didn't find a single anti town thing.
My view on them hasn't changed since then as well, their case on you was solid.
Anyway, we should get some heat from other cells as well, guys?
Promote discussion pls. This post really bugs me. Never in playing mafia have I ever found a filter with nothing I found bad in it. But what's even odder to me is the complete non-chalance before about Rayn/Gum. I think HF pinged me on this point earlier in the game and I remember it being odd, but in rereading it sticks out even more and more. Specifically, Steveling essentially made this huge case on Gumshoe where he ends up with a fence read. The thing that specifically bugs me is that in this setup, if I'm town and I have a super town read on someone else and a neutral read on the third person, then I'm going to read the fuck out of the third person to figure out what I'm missing and where I'm going wrong. It gets weirder: On April 02 2014 20:51 Steveling wrote:On April 02 2014 20:42 Holyflare wrote:On April 02 2014 20:39 Steveling wrote:
I read your thing against mderg, holyflare and tbh I'm not convinced.
Also I'm waiting for you to answer palmar's questions about mdergs meta filter.
Everyone with soft posts and inactivity and fluff is scum candidate but you seem way too fixated on him for some reason. Regardless, if you don't agree with what i said then what conclusions do you draw from the people that agreed with me when i said it? Are they then mafia for sheeping onto a town or what? First, if I had to bet on it, I'd say he's town. Now about the people that bus'd him Tehpoofter and getript seemingly blindly jump on him. Definitely suspicious for me. Gumshoe's suspicion I think is kinda silly, why would mderg defend me like that out of the blue, it would be literally the worst mafia play ever.Balla doesn't really hard claim him as scum as the others, he's just saying that his filter is scammy/inactive/fluff. So, can't form an opinion on balla based on that. Raynkoshi made the connection between mderg and gum but and raynkoshi so far gets a town read in my book so there's that. I like the joke there and laughed "I think he's town but about those people bussing him..." The weird thing here is that he again calls RaynKoshi town and calls Gum's suspicion silly. There's really too much of this to ignore. On April 02 2014 23:55 Steveling wrote:
Alright, I just had the time to properly read raynkoshi's case and gum's um, lack of debunking?
About the trap thing, raynkoshi's 1st point, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt gum.
I explained earlier that I find that part of your game flawed but genuinely your style and mby town play. Same thing you did when we played together. You are still in the wrong but I'm passing it by.
The 2nd point they made is very very legit though. Rare are the cases where the town benefits if they lynch their own.
That holds for a normal setup though, for this setup in which after each lynch a whole cell goes OUT of the game your "don't give a crap what you think about me" is inherently scum.
I'm surprised you can't see it for yourself.
I was willing to give you even more time to explain yourself right until that part.
Their 3rd point also stands and you still don't give a damn. You are not making it easy mate.
You don't have my vote of confidence anymore. + Show Spoiler [Rayn's case] +On April 02 2014 22:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Here is why gumshoe is mafia and we should be lynching him:
Point #1: gumshoe's bait and why it does not make sense from town perspective and proves he is scum:Here is the full conversation regarding this: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not. I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not? ~rayn Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 06:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not. I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not? ~rayn I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / : Now here other stuff happens and both of me and gumshoe discuss other things. Later on i revisit the argument and it bothers me because it looks weird. I ask gumshoe this: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 08:40 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I am trying so hard to think about this post and what the fuck is the point of all this. gumshoe what's the point of all this? On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote:
I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
I don't believe this. I don't believe this for one second. ~rayn Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 08:52 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:43 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
yes please.
~rayn I was offering an olive branch to see your reaction. No I wasn't honestly going after Steve with so little, but you know I'm capable of weird arguments like that so If your scum you have to consider 2 things, if I'm genuine and if your better off tentatively agreeing with me or turning on me for that silly read. Now read the red part and the green part. Both are gumshoe's answers. Both cannot possibly be true. Agreed? Yes, good. Now this leads us to the following: gumshoe says he laid a trap on me and i did not take the bait. Okay, maybe this is true. However why this is scummy is because the trap and the conclusion from it happened before gumshoe makes his green explanation. If it was truly a trap gumshoe has his conclusion already. In this case he would post the red part instead of lying and posting the green part in the first place. There is absolutely no reason to lie about the motivation behind your argument when asked, especially when you have already gotten your conclusion!!There is no town motivation for gumshoe to do what he did. This also leads me to:
Point #2: gumshoe's contradicting stance regarding readability and what it means:I made a post about this already. It's here: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 10:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game (where he was town) half past D1. I also found this: On March 28 2014 01:53 gumshoe wrote:On March 28 2014 01:30 Holyflare wrote:
because it is so wrong, not reading your pm enables you to be towny because you have no hesitation about finding your partner at that point because you don't know who he is so your entire reason for voting palmar is incredibly weird.....
not to mention he actually claimed scum, why haven't you commented on that instead? Cause I'm not there yet : P and I disagree, bieng readable is a big part of bieng town, if you make your self unreadable you can't be trusted. I'm not going to argue with you about this because it's retarded to think otherwise. However as me and gumshoe talk about being readable in this game his stance is this: On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm. ~rayn "Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. Here i present you our first...... Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!! ezpz ~rayn Look at the post. - In the green part gumshoe, as town in the last game we played, claims his stance. He says "being readable is a big part of good town play. It's retarded to think otherwise."
- In the red part gumshoe claims his stance in this game. You need to remember this has to do with the point #1 i presented. I have an argument that gumshoe is mafia because he is lying. I want to know why gumshoe is lying and if he has an explanation regarding why it makes sense to lie here as town. His stance is "why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? If you can't read me, that's not my fault."
Why this is scummy? Because town!gumshoe PROVABLY thinks the exact opposite he claims in this game. He only says what he does in this game because he lied and can't explain it in any other way. His explanation does not match with what town!gumshoe thinks. Noone can possibly have a contradicting stance on what is the optimal play for a townie regarding being readable or not when they are town, it's impossible, regardless of the game or situation!
Point #3: gumshoe is dodging arguments and working against his own heuristics + :I'll just make a list of these: - gumshoe refuses to answer my case on him and fearmongers something about "you can't read me scum because Steveling bla bla". That's didging an argument, Steveling not posting has nothing to do with if gumshoe is scum or not
- As Balla already pointed out then gumshoe calls me mafia for this. In case gumshoe's logic as town was "you can't call me scum because the other dude has not posted" he can't based on his own logic call me mafia for that. The point is not if this is true or not, the point is if gumshoe thinks this is a good heuristic he can't possibly forget it when it comes to me. He is selectively choosing to apply his heuristics when they benefit him and forget's them when they don't.
- gumshoe refuses to comment on my arguments on his case on me. Instead of telling people why i am wrong (i must be if i am scum and he has a good case on me right?) he only makes the same case again and hammers the same answered points over and over again. See my pretty picture. That's not how townies work.
Thank you for reading. ~rayn So Steveling has town read on rayn; there's a lack of debunking of rayn's case by gumshoe; steveling likes rayn's case. How can this guy not just call gumshoe scumshoe here. I really don't get it. The thing that I find odd about this in particular is that if you read Gumshoe's post in context, then it's super easy to dismiss Rayn's point 2. Point 1 from Rayn's case is far more convincing and a better point imo (although I personally don't find any of Rayn's case convincing). Point 3 I can seen from a lot of directions. The important thing here is that Steve should just be hammer Scumshoe into the ground here and pushing for Group 1 first. On April 03 2014 02:23 Steveling wrote:
I'm trying to figure this out, because so far they have being very townish.
But this is, well how should I put it, questionable?
Anyway, you can have your own opinion, illogical as it is.
At least make a case against me so I can defend myself. X swore on his life so he's legit is not much of an argument.
As I said earlier what everyone needs to do is defend themselves because a single lynch removes an entire cell from the game so I'll defend myself.
Just try to find a proper reason if you can? Dunno, this play of yours is very bad.
And one last thing, ryankoshi, you didn't respond to that, what if I also swear I'm town? I don't disagree with Steve here. Rayn's reason for flipping his read on gumshoe was weird/illogical/whatever. The odd response specifically is Steve's been super convinced that Gum is scum here; he's found gum's posting scummy, he's found rayn super town, he's liked rayn's case and thinks the points are scummy/damning. But the weird thing is that he's not hammering any of this shit home when gumshoe gets a freebie townread. I don't see why he's not just rehammering all of those arguments back into rayn if he reallys thinks Gum is scum. Overall, I think gum's town, I'm going to assume Rayn is town. Steve looks really odd and scummy so he hsould be lynch #2 this whole post states reasons why steve is more likely town You dont seem to think either me or Steve are scum so question! Anyway present a case with solid points first, not " OMG X SHOULD BE TOWN, SO Y IS SCUM, SO LETS MISSLYNCH TO GET INFO FOR THE LATEGAME " .
Ok Steve, well vote for who you want today : D if they are scum, you can lynch me whenever. This town is too dumb to hear me out and I'm too bad to convince them so lets just kill Coag because hes Coag, or murder Sent because his play is almost identical to yours (in the sense that he was catching up and wasn't totally confident, or that he was worried about his cell)
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