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Resistance 3 - Page 5

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 27 2013 01:23 GMT
#81
I don't want to go into specifics but i do not agree Hopeless. There are specific scenarios where not picking yourself is more beneficial than picking yourself.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 27 2013 01:25 GMT
#82
Picking a team that will get 100% downvoted (if that includes yourself) does not serve any purpose.
table for two on a tv tray
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
December 27 2013 01:30 GMT
#83
Hi everyone! Glad to see game's finally started :D

On December 27 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Picking a team that will get 100% downvoted (if that includes yourself) does not serve any purpose.


I agree with rayn. In Resistance 2 I picked BH and VE, two really town seeming guys (I think we even had 2/3 of the scumteam at that point), but I wasn't trustworthy so Sent-BH-VE got rejected.

I don't think there's anything scummy about picking 3 people everyone or almost everyone thinks is town, even if you're not one of those 3.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 27 2013 01:33 GMT
#84
On December 27 2013 10:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Hi everyone! Glad to see game's finally started :D

Show nested quote +
On December 27 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Picking a team that will get 100% downvoted (if that includes yourself) does not serve any purpose.


I agree with rayn. In Resistance 2 I picked BH and VE, two really town seeming guys (I think we even had 2/3 of the scumteam at that point), but I wasn't trustworthy so Sent-BH-VE got rejected.

I don't think there's anything scummy about picking 3 people everyone or almost everyone thinks is town, even if you're not one of those 3.

Lets suppose at least 1 of those 3 go on to fail a mission. Are you, as leader, culpable in the failure?
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
December 27 2013 01:37 GMT
#85
On December 27 2013 10:33 Hopeless1der wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 27 2013 10:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Hi everyone! Glad to see game's finally started :D

On December 27 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Picking a team that will get 100% downvoted (if that includes yourself) does not serve any purpose.


I agree with rayn. In Resistance 2 I picked BH and VE, two really town seeming guys (I think we even had 2/3 of the scumteam at that point), but I wasn't trustworthy so Sent-BH-VE got rejected.

I don't think there's anything scummy about picking 3 people everyone or almost everyone thinks is town, even if you're not one of those 3.

Lets suppose at least 1 of those 3 go on to fail a mission. Are you, as leader, culpable in the failure?


The same amount as you would be if you were on the mission yourself.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
Adam4167
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia1426 Posts
December 27 2013 01:37 GMT
#86
On December 27 2013 10:33 Hopeless1der wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 27 2013 10:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Hi everyone! Glad to see game's finally started :D

On December 27 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Picking a team that will get 100% downvoted (if that includes yourself) does not serve any purpose.


I agree with rayn. In Resistance 2 I picked BH and VE, two really town seeming guys (I think we even had 2/3 of the scumteam at that point), but I wasn't trustworthy so Sent-BH-VE got rejected.

I don't think there's anything scummy about picking 3 people everyone or almost everyone thinks is town, even if you're not one of those 3.

Lets suppose at least 1 of those 3 go on to fail a mission. Are you, as leader, culpable in the failure?


It should be a consideration, not a slam dunk.

But there is at least one spy on the team, that is concrete information. So you look at the leaders motivations for sending each person on the team.
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9857 Posts
December 27 2013 01:40 GMT
#87
On December 27 2013 10:33 Hopeless1der wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 27 2013 10:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Hi everyone! Glad to see game's finally started :D

On December 27 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Picking a team that will get 100% downvoted (if that includes yourself) does not serve any purpose.


I agree with rayn. In Resistance 2 I picked BH and VE, two really town seeming guys (I think we even had 2/3 of the scumteam at that point), but I wasn't trustworthy so Sent-BH-VE got rejected.

I don't think there's anything scummy about picking 3 people everyone or almost everyone thinks is town, even if you're not one of those 3.

Lets suppose at least 1 of those 3 go on to fail a mission. Are you, as leader, culpable in the failure?

Only if Rayn is the leader.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 27 2013 01:44 GMT
#88
On December 27 2013 10:37 Adam4167 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 27 2013 10:33 Hopeless1der wrote:
On December 27 2013 10:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Hi everyone! Glad to see game's finally started :D

On December 27 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Picking a team that will get 100% downvoted (if that includes yourself) does not serve any purpose.


I agree with rayn. In Resistance 2 I picked BH and VE, two really town seeming guys (I think we even had 2/3 of the scumteam at that point), but I wasn't trustworthy so Sent-BH-VE got rejected.

I don't think there's anything scummy about picking 3 people everyone or almost everyone thinks is town, even if you're not one of those 3.

Lets suppose at least 1 of those 3 go on to fail a mission. Are you, as leader, culpable in the failure?


It should be a consideration, not a slam dunk.

But there is at least one spy on the team, that is concrete information. So you look at the leaders motivations for sending each person on the team.

but now, you've coerced a player into doing "town's" bidding without having a clear view of his motive. I find that the vote mechanics serve to control how you view players much better than forcing the teams that people want to see.

Since we have up to 5 opportunities to get this done each round, I'd rather be confident in my read of the leader (and subsequently his selected companions) than have to second guess his motives down the road.

I'm not saying that each round is going to slam-dunk. I think that the consideration should FOLLOW the team being selected when people vote on it, and the leader should be playing to their optimal scenario.

[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
December 27 2013 02:05 GMT
#89
On December 27 2013 10:44 Hopeless1der wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 27 2013 10:37 Adam4167 wrote:
On December 27 2013 10:33 Hopeless1der wrote:
On December 27 2013 10:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Hi everyone! Glad to see game's finally started :D

On December 27 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Picking a team that will get 100% downvoted (if that includes yourself) does not serve any purpose.


I agree with rayn. In Resistance 2 I picked BH and VE, two really town seeming guys (I think we even had 2/3 of the scumteam at that point), but I wasn't trustworthy so Sent-BH-VE got rejected.

I don't think there's anything scummy about picking 3 people everyone or almost everyone thinks is town, even if you're not one of those 3.

Lets suppose at least 1 of those 3 go on to fail a mission. Are you, as leader, culpable in the failure?


It should be a consideration, not a slam dunk.

But there is at least one spy on the team, that is concrete information. So you look at the leaders motivations for sending each person on the team.

but now, you've coerced a player into doing "town's" bidding without having a clear view of his motive. I find that the vote mechanics serve to control how you view players much better than forcing the teams that people want to see.

Since we have up to 5 opportunities to get this done each round, I'd rather be confident in my read of the leader (and subsequently his selected companions) than have to second guess his motives down the road.

I'm not saying that each round is going to slam-dunk. I think that the consideration should FOLLOW the team being selected when people vote on it, and the leader should be playing to their optimal scenario.


Wouldn't "optimal" imply a scenario that you have control over, as opposed to the next person in line?
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
Corazon
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States3230 Posts
December 27 2013 02:54 GMT
#90
From a voting standpoint, I think it doesn't matter whether the leader sends himself or not. If you think the leader is town, you are going to trust his selections the same no matter who is on it. In fact, it might be even better if the leader decides not to put himself on the team as we are able to see more of his concrete reads and opinions.

This is just me theory-crafting but let me know if I am way off.
Grubby's #1 Fan
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
December 27 2013 03:08 GMT
#91
There are definitely situations where the leader would not put himself in. It would probably be best to analyse this case by case when these kinds of situations arise, because I always find that people suggesting sub-optimal teams, getting rejected, and letting the next good team pass gives more information than people doing the right play in the first place. We get information for why they chose the team, who approved the team, and who rejected it.

Anyways, other than Koshi who wants to be in, are there any other suggestions on who should be sent on the first mission? Since it's the first one, I'm alright with any team that goes in.
Corazon
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States3230 Posts
December 27 2013 03:12 GMT
#92
If Koshi is going to troll, I'm not sure if I want him going on missions. Would it help our read of him or just hinder our chances at getting a good mission?
Grubby's #1 Fan
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
December 27 2013 03:15 GMT
#93
On December 27 2013 10:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Hi everyone! Glad to see game's finally started :D

Show nested quote +
On December 27 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Picking a team that will get 100% downvoted (if that includes yourself) does not serve any purpose.


I agree with rayn. In Resistance 2 I picked BH and VE, two really town seeming guys (I think we even had 2/3 of the scumteam at that point), but I wasn't trustworthy so Sent-BH-VE got rejected.

I don't think there's anything scummy about picking 3 people everyone or almost everyone thinks is town, even if you're not one of those 3.

This is my feeling as well. I will go further to say that it's not inherently scummy about refusing to up-vote a team that doesn't include one's self, but it's strictly speaking closed minded and overly cautious play.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9857 Posts
December 27 2013 03:25 GMT
#94
We definitely need to be willing to vote for missions that don't include ourselves; otherwise, we would just get stuck with the final leader's selection. But, if you think you can feasibly get your team voted through with yourself on it then that is optimal.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 27 2013 03:29 GMT
#95
On December 27 2013 11:05 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 27 2013 10:44 Hopeless1der wrote:
On December 27 2013 10:37 Adam4167 wrote:
On December 27 2013 10:33 Hopeless1der wrote:
On December 27 2013 10:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Hi everyone! Glad to see game's finally started :D

On December 27 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Picking a team that will get 100% downvoted (if that includes yourself) does not serve any purpose.


I agree with rayn. In Resistance 2 I picked BH and VE, two really town seeming guys (I think we even had 2/3 of the scumteam at that point), but I wasn't trustworthy so Sent-BH-VE got rejected.

I don't think there's anything scummy about picking 3 people everyone or almost everyone thinks is town, even if you're not one of those 3.

Lets suppose at least 1 of those 3 go on to fail a mission. Are you, as leader, culpable in the failure?


It should be a consideration, not a slam dunk.

But there is at least one spy on the team, that is concrete information. So you look at the leaders motivations for sending each person on the team.

but now, you've coerced a player into doing "town's" bidding without having a clear view of his motive. I find that the vote mechanics serve to control how you view players much better than forcing the teams that people want to see.

Since we have up to 5 opportunities to get this done each round, I'd rather be confident in my read of the leader (and subsequently his selected companions) than have to second guess his motives down the road.

I'm not saying that each round is going to slam-dunk. I think that the consideration should FOLLOW the team being selected when people vote on it, and the leader should be playing to their optimal scenario.


Wouldn't "optimal" imply a scenario that you have control over, as opposed to the next person in line?

I guess optimally would be the team that best fulfills the conditions where the members are all town and Vote consensus=Yay. You have more control over the team selected and less control over the vote consensus. If we're talking in absolutes, then yes - if I know a team with me in it will be rejected, I shouldnt put it up there. However, I am very hesitant to believe the game will get to the point where I assume everyone thinks I am a spy.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 27 2013 03:30 GMT
#96
On December 27 2013 12:25 Grackaroni wrote:
We definitely need to be willing to vote for missions that don't include ourselves; otherwise, we would just get stuck with the final leader's selection. But, if you think you can feasibly get your team voted through with yourself on it then that is optimal.

If 4/5 leaders all look like scum, we got other problems to deal with my friend.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 27 2013 04:19 GMT
#97
So everybody is basically saying the same thing over and over again. There are 6 townies. If you exclude yourself there are 5 townies. Even the last missions require only max 5 people. You can select an all town team even if you exclude yourself. Therefore, in case you are considered not necessarily town and your team would be refused if you are in it, it's better to select other people. If you select a team which gets 8 nay votes, it tells us nothing. Voting patterns are the most important thing (obviously besides mission results) in this game because there are no flips.

Anyone who refuses to cooperate in mission selection as a leader and pushes through a selection that is doomed to get a fuckton of nay votes should not go a mission. That's what i think.

On December 27 2013 12:08 Chairman Ray wrote:
There are definitely situations where the leader would not put himself in. It would probably be best to analyse this case by case when these kinds of situations arise, because I always find that people suggesting sub-optimal teams, getting rejected, and letting the next good team pass gives more information than people doing the right play in the first place. We get information for why they chose the team, who approved the team, and who rejected it.

Anyways, other than Koshi who wants to be in, are there any other suggestions on who should be sent on the first mission? Since it's the first one, I'm alright with any team that goes in.

I think you are scum because of this. In 5 pl setup this works because it's actually better to pass the first mission as scum, in 9 pl setup this is different and not necessarily true. Seems to me like an attempt to stop the conversation before it even started.

CR - Does Koshi seem town to you? Why?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 27 2013 04:58 GMT
#98
Corazon if you were a leader now would you send a team that does not include yourself?
table for two on a tv tray
Corazon
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States3230 Posts
December 27 2013 05:01 GMT
#99
On December 27 2013 13:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Corazon if you were a leader now would you send a team that does not include yourself?

Seeing as I just said that I don't really think it matters, I don't understand why are you asking that question.

Grubby's #1 Fan
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
December 27 2013 05:06 GMT
#100
Because you job as a leader is to send 3 townies on a mission. You knowing your alignment why would you not send yourself?
table for two on a tv tray
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