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On December 18 2013 04:46 layabout wrote:
Ima double post after reading BH's.
When you have talked to somebody or even heard them (RIP podcast) it's much harder to hate them. So maybe reboot the podcast or encourage people to play voice. There should also be more effort in newbies to remind people of the differences between in game and out of game so people have the right attitude going in?
Perhaps people could just act more maturely.
I agree with this to some degree, but there are examples of people I have played with that get salty even when playing games other than mafia, and I also feel like most of the people who are pretty well-balanced in mafia games tend to be so outside of games as well. We should totes reboot the podcast though.
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On December 18 2013 04:48 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 04:46 layabout wrote:
Ima double post after reading BH's.
When you have talked to somebody or even heard them (RIP podcast) it's much harder to hate them. So maybe reboot the podcast or encourage people to play voice. There should also be more effort in newbies to remind people of the differences between in game and out of game so people have the right attitude going in?
Perhaps people could just act more maturely. I agree with this to some degree, but there are examples of people I have played with that get salty even when playing games other than mafia, and I also feel like most of the people who are pretty well-balanced in mafia games tend to be so outside of games as well. We should totes reboot the podcast though.
If we do it needs to be well structured like the early ones. No more than 2 hours at most. The long rambling casts were just not interesting to listen to. And get genuine vets on the show. Best person to ever do it was palmar.
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
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On December 18 2013 04:22 Blazinghand wrote:
I'd also like to add in that we should do more voice mafia, team building exercises, and playing of video games together. This ESPECIALLY applies to people who maybe have bad interactions with other players (I'm not gonna name names, but definitely iGrok jkjk) and want to improve that. When it comes down to it, we're all reasonable people and some out of game interactions might be able to help us a lot.
This is totally true.
After one night of DotA Blazinghand and I were screaming at each other, but now we get along really well and he's in my top 5 favorite mafia people.
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WotC: I agree with this notion. It's not an "exclusion" policy per se. Yes, it will prevent the "wisdomed" (I make up words because it's fun) player from playing in the said game, but the intent isn't to remove the person from the community, it's to get the wisdomed player to consider why they might have drawn so many votes to be removed in the first place. The idea isn't to pare the community down with Wisdom of the Crowds, it's a method or rehabilitating the behavior of individuals. Is it always going to work this way? Obviously not - no one likes being excluded and players might take that stuff personally - but in my opinion it will work on the people who it's supposed to work on, people who care about the community and the integrity of the game.
GM includes it in all of his games, and if I host games it's going on there. Not because I want to perpetuate a system of exclusion, but because I've been burned by having games I've played in ruined by individuals that I KNEW would cause a problem in the game. It's true that I could just avoid the game, but the question becomes: why should /I/ be punished because someone else habitually ruins games?
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I'm definitely going to implement a banlist after II Titanic finishes up, and will post thoughts related to the problems with that game as well for the extent of enforcement.
I wouldn't actually mind enforcing a strict modkill policy and remaking the game at a future date if it was completely ruined. The game's expendable compared to the atmosphere within. In the short term it sucks, but eventually you have people you can trust to not do anything stupid, and actually see how your setup works.
Then again, I haven't had the chance to do an ultra-complex setup yet, so maybe that's why I'm okay with it.
I'd actually love to do more voice mafia and stuff when I get time on my hands. I had a lot of fun in the podcast, and I think faster, more relaxing games are definitely needed in this forum.
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On December 18 2013 06:29 VisceraEyes wrote:
WotC: I agree with this notion. It's not an "exclusion" policy per se. Yes, it will prevent the "wisdomed" (I make up words because it's fun) player from playing in the said game, but the intent isn't to remove the person from the community, it's to get the wisdomed player to consider why they might have drawn so many votes to be removed in the first place. The idea isn't to pare the community down with Wisdom of the Crowds, it's a method or rehabilitating the behavior of individuals. Is it always going to work this way? Obviously not - no one likes being excluded and players might take that stuff personally - but in my opinion it will work on the people who it's supposed to work on, people who care about the community and the integrity of the game.
GM includes it in all of his games, and if I host games it's going on there. Not because I want to perpetuate a system of exclusion, but because I've been burned by having games I've played in ruined by individuals that I KNEW would cause a problem in the game. It's true that I could just avoid the game, but the question becomes: why should /I/ be punished because someone else habitually ruins games?
VE, I have never intentionally killed you D1 or N1.
Hopefully that makes you feel a little better <3
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I feel fine dude, just giving my 2c on the discussion.
I don't think bans are going to solve anything. Bans come from GM and too often that can just be written off as "well whatever, it's just the man getting me down". If fellow players repeatedly refuse to play with someone, it becomes a thing where they have to prove that they're not going to ruin games anymore to play.
I've been Wisdomed out of games before - it's not fun - but it has improved my attitude and my outlook on how to play the game. That is a fact.
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On December 18 2013 06:37 VisceraEyes wrote:
I feel fine dude, just giving my 2c on the discussion.
I don't think bans are going to solve anything. Bans come from GM and too often that can just be written off as "well whatever, it's just the man getting me down". If fellow players repeatedly refuse to play with someone, it becomes a thing where they have to prove that they're not going to ruin games anymore to play.
I've been Wisdomed out of games before - it's not fun - but it has improved my attitude and my outlook on how to play the game. That is a fact.
Really?
When was this? Was it more common a couple years ago?
I wasn't aware of any games that used it aside from GM's games (and maybe RoL's? I forget), at least not since I've been around.
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
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I plan on running a clean game for XLIV. For people interested in playing I have put up a poll about behavior moderation.
I am less inclined to run Wotc for the game simply because I am unconvinced that it works.
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It was on MafiaScum - a lot of hosts use it over there in the larger games...or did when I frequented there anyway.
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On December 18 2013 07:07 LSB wrote:
I plan on running a clean game for XLIV. For people interested in playing I have put up a poll about behavior moderation.
I am less inclined to run Wotc for the game simply because I am unconvinced that it works.
Sort of tempted to play but I think I need a break from mafia here, not to mention going to be on vacation.
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I think everybody that's angry and shit meets up at a specific location in the world, and play paintball against each other to take some steam off!
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But seriously, chill out guys.
Remember, when in doubt, ask yourself: What would Chezinu do?
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On December 18 2013 02:42 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 10:16 OOHCHILD wrote:
Oh WoS I actually think you are town now. Still glad I nuked you. Also I took away your twitter powers tomorrow as an extra f u. Crossfire I think you crossed the line by interfering with my play for this quote. There are no ad hominem attacks here. There is no anti wincon behavior if you look at the context, which was that I was constantly changing my mind about his alignment. I thought he could be scum, so why is it wrong to nuke him/take away his twitter powers? Also if you act somewhat outrageously, you can use that as a test to see how people respond, and get reads off them from that. I mean I'm not saying I played brilliantly that game or anything, or even played good, but what I did was not illegal and you had no right as a mod to interfere.
You can do that, and it may help your reads.
If people DO believe you're for real, in your "somewhat outrageously", then you can get reads. But what damage does having someone actually outrageous (or believed to be anyway) in a game, and what does that do to the rest of your town team?
If people DONT believe you're for real, in your outrageous, then you cant really get reads. As then your just some clown pretending.
Same thing is true if you call me a bleeping bleep bleep bleep. (choose one you think I would believe you mean) it is only if I believe you and get actually upset and thus have that effect my ability to play the game, that you get your read that I am town(frustrated)/scum(angry and could kill you). I suppose it is less harmful than shooting me and flipping me to determine alignment. It does however have a down side(3/4 times).
It does however have the personal side benefit that you get to troll captive people in a game and they cant just DNFTT as they have to determine your alignment and you get to jerk them around as much as you want for amusement. Yo Kush I am only trolling close to the bone man... does it help to know that?
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On December 17 2013 08:51 Blazinghand wrote:
I wouldn't be terribly traumatized if punishments are handed out that interrupted games, but I think it would be prudent to try a combination of "tell hosts to be more aggressive" and "tl bans after games for people warned/modkilled for behavior" first in hopes of maybe returning to normalcy moree asily.
Licence to Kill
I agree, if host really has to modkill a player in a game I am in and it results in my team losing, I promise to regard that as a mercy kill that saved me from having to play another day. If I still want to play another day I can sign up for another game.
(hey and if I am the one modkilled (crosses fingers and hopes I dont lose it sometime) I will in hindsight regard it as mercy kill that stopped me digging my hole any deeper. T_T.)
regarding overreacting.
In the same way that backing trailer is tricky business and its easy to over react. Steering the forum is the same. This thread is great big red flag. Apart from perhaps anyone trolly and attention seeking enough to want to be the first killed by the new style hosting I fully expect any host thinking
Fictional Judge Dread Host: Right now to modkill me some of those jackasses screwing with my games
is likely to find a rather empty plate.
This is a social game. We interact socially. Finding out what people actual draw as conclusion when person A calls B names or trolls, berates, stalks, them or ... and that the conclusion is A is a jerk wad. Do note this is an adversarial game and as pointed out, doing that to get reads is "kinda" fine.... But just the same, the conclusion for me now is person A wishes to practice being a jerk wad for the purpose of winning this game or having fun. Not really sure I am seeing the distinction.
The point of ^^^ is that it will not be necessary to ModKill as many people as have been seen to cross the line in the past. baby steps and see what happens, don't pull down hard left on the steering wheel and jack knife the forum.
Also I suspect at least some people may be seeing this discussion and revision of how we play as making it all ponies, fairy floss, please and thank you. I suspect that not getting to hide behind "Youre just wah wah wah" then AFK because your pretending to be upset to "see reactions", or establish meta for doing that so next game you can do that as scum.
I think some may find some of what I say in this post little 'in their face' and confrontational, yet I have carefully been polite. Adversarial comes in many flavours.
Lastly a suggestion.
What would happen to you(anyone reading this) as real life human being if you did the following.
Played as town as best as you possibly could. (straight up)
Then as scum, tried to be sufficiently self aware of who you really are that you can impersonate it.
If a trolly abusive belligerent person is who you really are consider changing first.
BH has suggested doing other things outside mafia so we get to know one another. We could always practice being who we are while we play mafia. His plan however is good one.
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On December 18 2013 10:00 gonzaw wrote:
But seriously, chill out guys.
Remember, when in doubt, ask yourself: What would Chezinu do?
Solved problem:
nah I ask myself "What would nuızǝɥɔ do?"
laugh
Then do what I was going to do anyways.
new problem:
What if I am only one of angry or shit at the game?
Reduce it to previously solved problem and then I am done.
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I hope you all learned an important lesson about behaving yourselves from my temp vacation.
thats why I did it btw.. someone needed to be made an example of so gmarsh could show everyone that he means business so I stepped up for the good of tlmafia.
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The sacrifices you make for the good of the community. I stand in awe, sir. I AM AWE-STRICKEN!!!
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EPT
