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Message GMarshal if you request a ban please ^_^
Also when the game you're sitting out is over!
~GMarshal |
On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it?
I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1.
I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death.
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On November 21 2014 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1. I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death.
I disagree. The point of modding is to uphold the integrity of the game. The point of the game isn't for the mod to do whatever the fuck s/he wants; it's for players to play and have fun. If a mod ruins a game, that means that players are wasting days of effort and days of their life just because someone made a poor decision. That's unfair to players, and there are more players than there are mods. And again, the game is for the players, not for the mod (in my opinion)
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On November 21 2014 03:36 IAmRobik wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1. I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death. I disagree. The point of modding is to uphold the integrity of the game. The point of the game isn't for the mod to do whatever the fuck s/he wants; it's for players to play and have fun. If a mod ruins a game, that means that players are wasting days of effort and days of their life just because someone made a poor decision. That's unfair to players, and there are more players than there are mods. And again, the game is for the players, not for the mod (in my opinion)
Everything you've said is true, but not one thing of it justifies players being able to post after being modkilled if they personally think the modkill was unjust (which, again, historically everyone thinks about their own modkills at the time it happens). If we have a precedent where "posting after you have been modkilled is ok if the modkill is unjust" then the quality of games will go down, because nobody likes being modkilled. The issue isn't whether or not a modkill is just or not, it's about how we deal with a situation where both the player and the host think they are right and the other is wrong, and a modkill happens.
Right now the rule is, you can't post after being modkilled, no matter how unfair it is. That's a good rule, because it allows games to continue without people who are modkilled disrupting them. There are edge cases, yes, where the rule isn't good. For example, let's say a mod modkills me for a stupid reason that doesn't make sense. I would LOVE to be able to talk in the thread after that-- give my last reads, and so on. But that's rare. What's much more common is, a mod modkills me for a reasonable reason, and I think it's a stupid reason that doesn't make sense.
So basically you have to look at what happens if you say "it's okay to talk after modkill if the modkill was bad". EVERYONE would do this. It wouldn't just be you. It wouldn't just be people who were unreasonably modkilled. You're not thinking about other people; just your case. A rule can't have exceptions like "it's okay to violate this rule if you have a really really good reason" because then everyone, who individually thinks they have a good reason, will violate it. The vast majority of modkills are reasonable and good, and the people who are modkilled don't think they are in that moment, so under your system they'd keep posting.
E: Unless you can suggest a consistent unambiguous rule for when people should be allowed to post after being modkiled, I think we should REALLY stick with the "no posting after modkills" rule because I just feel like that's the only rule that makes sense and is easily understood
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On November 21 2014 03:36 IAmRobik wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1. I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death. I disagree. The point of modding is to uphold the integrity of the game. The point of the game isn't for the mod to do whatever the fuck s/he wants; it's for players to play and have fun. If a mod ruins a game, that means that players are wasting days of effort and days of their life just because someone made a poor decision. That's unfair to players, and there are more players than there are mods. And again, the game is for the players, not for the mod (in my opinion)
Even if you were right here this is totally irrelevant because your modkill was absolutely warranted and you even admitted that yourself. This discussion is unnecessary.
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On November 21 2014 03:36 IAmRobik wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1. I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death. I disagree. The point of modding is to uphold the integrity of the game. The point of the game isn't for the mod to do whatever the fuck s/he wants; it's for players to play and have fun. If a mod ruins a game, that means that players are wasting days of effort and days of their life just because someone made a poor decision. That's unfair to players, and there are more players than there are mods. And again, the game is for the players, not for the mod (in my opinion)
The game is ultimately the Mod's to uphold. By modkilling, they believe that they ARE upholding the integrity. They are not intentionally ruining games, they are upholding rules that have been laid out before the game starts. If rules were broken and someone was NOT modkilled, THAT is unfair to the players and there are more rule-abiding players than rule-breaking players (I hope). Mafia is a difficult game to moderate because of emotional outbursts but when a line is crossed in the mods mind thats it, you're done.
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On November 21 2014 03:55 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 03:36 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1. I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death. I disagree. The point of modding is to uphold the integrity of the game. The point of the game isn't for the mod to do whatever the fuck s/he wants; it's for players to play and have fun. If a mod ruins a game, that means that players are wasting days of effort and days of their life just because someone made a poor decision. That's unfair to players, and there are more players than there are mods. And again, the game is for the players, not for the mod (in my opinion) Even if you were right here this is totally irrelevant because your modkill was absolutely warranted and you even admitted that yourself. This discussion is unnecessary.
My modkill was warranted, but my post was also imperative. Removing that information from the game is unacceptable. Also, I think it should be a policy to give a warning before modkilling to let people know that they're starting to do things that are unacceptable. I've been warned many times without getting modkilled, and figured that was a policy, but since it's apparently not, it should definitely be implemented.
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On November 21 2014 03:59 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 03:36 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1. I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death. I disagree. The point of modding is to uphold the integrity of the game. The point of the game isn't for the mod to do whatever the fuck s/he wants; it's for players to play and have fun. If a mod ruins a game, that means that players are wasting days of effort and days of their life just because someone made a poor decision. That's unfair to players, and there are more players than there are mods. And again, the game is for the players, not for the mod (in my opinion) The game is ultimately the Mod's to uphold. By modkilling, they believe that they ARE upholding the integrity. They are not intentionally ruining games, they are upholding rules that have been laid out before the game starts. If rules were broken and someone was NOT modkilled, THAT is unfair to the players and there are more rule-abiding players than rule-breaking players (I hope). Mafia is a difficult game to moderate because of emotional outbursts but when a line is crossed in the mods mind thats it, you're done.
A cop has a red check. They get modkilled before outing it. How do you handle this situation?
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On November 21 2014 04:01 IAmRobik wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 03:55 justanothertownie wrote:On November 21 2014 03:36 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1. I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death. I disagree. The point of modding is to uphold the integrity of the game. The point of the game isn't for the mod to do whatever the fuck s/he wants; it's for players to play and have fun. If a mod ruins a game, that means that players are wasting days of effort and days of their life just because someone made a poor decision. That's unfair to players, and there are more players than there are mods. And again, the game is for the players, not for the mod (in my opinion) Even if you were right here this is totally irrelevant because your modkill was absolutely warranted and you even admitted that yourself. This discussion is unnecessary. My modkill was warranted, but my post was also imperative. Removing that information from the game is unacceptable. Also, I think it should be a policy to give a warning before modkilling to let people know that they're starting to do things that are unacceptable. I've been warned many times without getting modkilled, and figured that was a policy, but since it's apparently not, it should definitely be implemented.
When you say "my post is imperative" I read "I wanted to make my post". That's what I see. If you say someone else write "my post is imperative" you'd interpret it as "I wanted to make my post" also.
On November 21 2014 04:03 IAmRobik wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 03:59 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 21 2014 03:36 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1. I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death. I disagree. The point of modding is to uphold the integrity of the game. The point of the game isn't for the mod to do whatever the fuck s/he wants; it's for players to play and have fun. If a mod ruins a game, that means that players are wasting days of effort and days of their life just because someone made a poor decision. That's unfair to players, and there are more players than there are mods. And again, the game is for the players, not for the mod (in my opinion) The game is ultimately the Mod's to uphold. By modkilling, they believe that they ARE upholding the integrity. They are not intentionally ruining games, they are upholding rules that have been laid out before the game starts. If rules were broken and someone was NOT modkilled, THAT is unfair to the players and there are more rule-abiding players than rule-breaking players (I hope). Mafia is a difficult game to moderate because of emotional outbursts but when a line is crossed in the mods mind thats it, you're done. A cop has a red check. They get modkilled before outing it. How do you handle this situation?
The situation has already been handled; the flamer has been modkilled and may no longer post. Problem solved.
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On November 21 2014 04:04 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 04:01 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:55 justanothertownie wrote:On November 21 2014 03:36 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1. I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death. I disagree. The point of modding is to uphold the integrity of the game. The point of the game isn't for the mod to do whatever the fuck s/he wants; it's for players to play and have fun. If a mod ruins a game, that means that players are wasting days of effort and days of their life just because someone made a poor decision. That's unfair to players, and there are more players than there are mods. And again, the game is for the players, not for the mod (in my opinion) Even if you were right here this is totally irrelevant because your modkill was absolutely warranted and you even admitted that yourself. This discussion is unnecessary. My modkill was warranted, but my post was also imperative. Removing that information from the game is unacceptable. Also, I think it should be a policy to give a warning before modkilling to let people know that they're starting to do things that are unacceptable. I've been warned many times without getting modkilled, and figured that was a policy, but since it's apparently not, it should definitely be implemented. When you say "my post is imperative" I read "I wanted to make my post". That's what I see. If you say someone else write "my post is imperative" you'd interpret it as "I wanted to make my post" also. Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 04:03 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:59 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 21 2014 03:36 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1. I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death. I disagree. The point of modding is to uphold the integrity of the game. The point of the game isn't for the mod to do whatever the fuck s/he wants; it's for players to play and have fun. If a mod ruins a game, that means that players are wasting days of effort and days of their life just because someone made a poor decision. That's unfair to players, and there are more players than there are mods. And again, the game is for the players, not for the mod (in my opinion) The game is ultimately the Mod's to uphold. By modkilling, they believe that they ARE upholding the integrity. They are not intentionally ruining games, they are upholding rules that have been laid out before the game starts. If rules were broken and someone was NOT modkilled, THAT is unfair to the players and there are more rule-abiding players than rule-breaking players (I hope). Mafia is a difficult game to moderate because of emotional outbursts but when a line is crossed in the mods mind thats it, you're done. A cop has a red check. They get modkilled before outing it. How do you handle this situation? The situation has already been handled; the flamer has been modkilled and may no longer post. Problem solved.
So town gets fucked because one person was being an ass?
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On November 21 2014 04:07 IAmRobik wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 04:04 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 04:01 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:55 justanothertownie wrote:On November 21 2014 03:36 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1. I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death. I disagree. The point of modding is to uphold the integrity of the game. The point of the game isn't for the mod to do whatever the fuck s/he wants; it's for players to play and have fun. If a mod ruins a game, that means that players are wasting days of effort and days of their life just because someone made a poor decision. That's unfair to players, and there are more players than there are mods. And again, the game is for the players, not for the mod (in my opinion) Even if you were right here this is totally irrelevant because your modkill was absolutely warranted and you even admitted that yourself. This discussion is unnecessary. My modkill was warranted, but my post was also imperative. Removing that information from the game is unacceptable. Also, I think it should be a policy to give a warning before modkilling to let people know that they're starting to do things that are unacceptable. I've been warned many times without getting modkilled, and figured that was a policy, but since it's apparently not, it should definitely be implemented. When you say "my post is imperative" I read "I wanted to make my post". That's what I see. If you say someone else write "my post is imperative" you'd interpret it as "I wanted to make my post" also. On November 21 2014 04:03 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:59 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 21 2014 03:36 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1. I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death. I disagree. The point of modding is to uphold the integrity of the game. The point of the game isn't for the mod to do whatever the fuck s/he wants; it's for players to play and have fun. If a mod ruins a game, that means that players are wasting days of effort and days of their life just because someone made a poor decision. That's unfair to players, and there are more players than there are mods. And again, the game is for the players, not for the mod (in my opinion) The game is ultimately the Mod's to uphold. By modkilling, they believe that they ARE upholding the integrity. They are not intentionally ruining games, they are upholding rules that have been laid out before the game starts. If rules were broken and someone was NOT modkilled, THAT is unfair to the players and there are more rule-abiding players than rule-breaking players (I hope). Mafia is a difficult game to moderate because of emotional outbursts but when a line is crossed in the mods mind thats it, you're done. A cop has a red check. They get modkilled before outing it. How do you handle this situation? The situation has already been handled; the flamer has been modkilled and may no longer post. Problem solved. So town gets fucked because one person was being an ass?
That's basically the definition of flaming until you get modkilled as a townie...
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On November 21 2014 04:03 IAmRobik wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 03:59 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 21 2014 03:36 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1. I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death. I disagree. The point of modding is to uphold the integrity of the game. The point of the game isn't for the mod to do whatever the fuck s/he wants; it's for players to play and have fun. If a mod ruins a game, that means that players are wasting days of effort and days of their life just because someone made a poor decision. That's unfair to players, and there are more players than there are mods. And again, the game is for the players, not for the mod (in my opinion) The game is ultimately the Mod's to uphold. By modkilling, they believe that they ARE upholding the integrity. They are not intentionally ruining games, they are upholding rules that have been laid out before the game starts. If rules were broken and someone was NOT modkilled, THAT is unfair to the players and there are more rule-abiding players than rule-breaking players (I hope). Mafia is a difficult game to moderate because of emotional outbursts but when a line is crossed in the mods mind thats it, you're done. A cop has a red check. They get modkilled before outing it. How do you handle this situation?
Sucks for town but the cop shouldn't have been an idiot. Shit happens.
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On November 21 2014 04:07 IAmRobik wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 04:04 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 04:01 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:55 justanothertownie wrote:On November 21 2014 03:36 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1. I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death. I disagree. The point of modding is to uphold the integrity of the game. The point of the game isn't for the mod to do whatever the fuck s/he wants; it's for players to play and have fun. If a mod ruins a game, that means that players are wasting days of effort and days of their life just because someone made a poor decision. That's unfair to players, and there are more players than there are mods. And again, the game is for the players, not for the mod (in my opinion) Even if you were right here this is totally irrelevant because your modkill was absolutely warranted and you even admitted that yourself. This discussion is unnecessary. My modkill was warranted, but my post was also imperative. Removing that information from the game is unacceptable. Also, I think it should be a policy to give a warning before modkilling to let people know that they're starting to do things that are unacceptable. I've been warned many times without getting modkilled, and figured that was a policy, but since it's apparently not, it should definitely be implemented. When you say "my post is imperative" I read "I wanted to make my post". That's what I see. If you say someone else write "my post is imperative" you'd interpret it as "I wanted to make my post" also. On November 21 2014 04:03 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:59 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 21 2014 03:36 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1. I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death. I disagree. The point of modding is to uphold the integrity of the game. The point of the game isn't for the mod to do whatever the fuck s/he wants; it's for players to play and have fun. If a mod ruins a game, that means that players are wasting days of effort and days of their life just because someone made a poor decision. That's unfair to players, and there are more players than there are mods. And again, the game is for the players, not for the mod (in my opinion) The game is ultimately the Mod's to uphold. By modkilling, they believe that they ARE upholding the integrity. They are not intentionally ruining games, they are upholding rules that have been laid out before the game starts. If rules were broken and someone was NOT modkilled, THAT is unfair to the players and there are more rule-abiding players than rule-breaking players (I hope). Mafia is a difficult game to moderate because of emotional outbursts but when a line is crossed in the mods mind thats it, you're done. A cop has a red check. They get modkilled before outing it. How do you handle this situation? The situation has already been handled; the flamer has been modkilled and may no longer post. Problem solved. So town gets fucked because one person was being an ass?
Yup. Another reason to not be an ass.
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On November 21 2014 04:03 IAmRobik wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 03:59 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 21 2014 03:36 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 03:23 IAmRobik wrote:On November 21 2014 02:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 21 2014 02:10 IAmRobik wrote:
It was already outlined by several people. The post-modkill post was imperative. It was information that the town should be privy to and taking that away from town would be more detrimental to the integrity of the game than my poor behavior. Therefore I believe 1 game for the language and 1 game for the act of posting after modkill. You think it was right to post after the modkill, and it would have been detrimental to not break the rules by doing so, but still think you deserve a ban for it? I think I went overboard with the posting and went beyond just posting the info...plus I think that it would set a bad precedent if I was not given anything for it. So yes, I think that it should be a 1 game ban. It's something that I deliberated over when it happened as to whether it deserved any games, and came to the conclusion that it deserves 1. I can't possibly imagine that it was appropriate to post in the thread after a modkill. It's not your decision what's appropriate in terms of modkills and revealed information. That's a decision the host makes. The host may make what you think is the wrong decision, and maybe it WAS the wrong decision. But that doesn't matter. As a player you wait until after the game and talk about it. If the host modkills you and says you're out of the game and can't talk, you are out of the game and can't talk. It doesn't matter if you personally at that moment think that it's unreasonable. By definition basically, everyone who is modkilled at that moment thinks it's unreasonable they were modkilled. It's entirely possible your modkill WAS unreasonable. But we can't have a precedent where people posting after modkills before game ends is sometimes ok if the reason is good enough; everyone will think their reason is good enough. Do you get my point here? you could be 100% correct and you should still get an appropriate punishment that doesn't factor in whether it is "justified" for you to post after death. I disagree. The point of modding is to uphold the integrity of the game. The point of the game isn't for the mod to do whatever the fuck s/he wants; it's for players to play and have fun. If a mod ruins a game, that means that players are wasting days of effort and days of their life just because someone made a poor decision. That's unfair to players, and there are more players than there are mods. And again, the game is for the players, not for the mod (in my opinion) The game is ultimately the Mod's to uphold. By modkilling, they believe that they ARE upholding the integrity. They are not intentionally ruining games, they are upholding rules that have been laid out before the game starts. If rules were broken and someone was NOT modkilled, THAT is unfair to the players and there are more rule-abiding players than rule-breaking players (I hope). Mafia is a difficult game to moderate because of emotional outbursts but when a line is crossed in the mods mind thats it, you're done. A cop has a red check. They get modkilled before outing it. How do you handle this situation?
Best case:
PM the host requesting that a last will of 1 sentence be allowed due to extenuating circumstances. Abide by whatever decision the mod makes.
Worst case:
Modkilled player is dead, save all discussion until post-game.
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I obviously disagree with all of you. Hopeless, the 1st part seems like a good idea.
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I think I should be able to post after modkill but I think everyone else shouldn't be able to.
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On November 21 2014 04:15 batsnacks wrote:
I think I should be able to post after modkill but I think everyone else shouldn't be able to.
Exactly.
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On November 21 2014 04:16 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 04:15 batsnacks wrote:
I think I should be able to post after modkill but I think everyone else shouldn't be able to. Exactly.
This is clearly the only logical compromise between what robik is suggesting and what BH is suggesting. It's the best of both worlds.
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That's obviously not what I'm saying. I also heavily disagreed with Palmar's modkill of me, but I didn't say anything that game. This situatino was different, and thus I acted differently.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Robik, you're missing the point. First off, you shouldn't post after modkill no matter what, so it doesn't matter that you only do it sometimes. Secondly, you can't imagine everyone else is as "restrained" as you are about posting after modkills if that's allowed.
I think there might be some differences in perspective here, but I'm willing to like, modkill the last scum for flaming, or modkill a townie in LYLO for flaming, or whatever. The standards of the forum and the community need to preserved.
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EPT
