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On August 09 2013 18:02 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 17:47 Clarity_nl wrote:
Yes.
If he believed him to be scum enough to vote him over solstice (while stating he's still suspicious of solstice) why does he feel the need to add more reasons to his vote? Hmmm. I don't really see that as a scum-only motivation. Scum would certainly have reason to pile more suspicion on their target after selecting him, but similarly town can be consumed by confirmation bias and focus on convincing others of their read. Look at Dandel Ion's tunnel on Koshi, for example.
Do you believe his original reasoning for voting acro was enough to vote him, especially over solstice at that point?
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On August 09 2013 17:59 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 16:38 Oatsmaster wrote:
I feel that kush will show his alignment either way.
So you are basically suggesting a policy nk on lurkers right?
Cause you dont have specific targets. I dont know if I agree. Really? What indicates to you that he will? btw, I'm fully in favor of policy nk'ing lurkers. imo we should agree on 3 of them and have 2 houses shoot them respectively. Or maybe 2 with 3 shooting each? Hard to tell how much you need to kill them, 2 targets seems "safer" to result in something. Just try one out and see what happens. The specific distribution can be made in secret, dunno if that'd have an impact but i dont think it really matters to the thread who shoots who until after it's done (so we can see who didn't kill who), which might as well be claimed after. There's literally no downside to this.
No need to waste extra KP on anyone. Just shoot until he's dead, then move on? Shouldn't the player die immediately (or soon) after receiving a fatal amount of KP?
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On August 09 2013 17:56 Clarity_nl wrote:
Let me put it this way.
In chronological order:
1. He takes advantage of the mess rayn and acro have created by voting for acro
2. He then goes back and explains why his reasoning in his votepost makes sense (this is fine)
3. He now shows that he went back and looked at his interactions with acro
Why did he not look back at the interactions before voting him? Surely you look back at it BEFORE you vote someone?
I believe he is scum who tried to take advantage of the situation, and acted too quickly, started doubting that the reasons he posted in thread looked genuine, so he went back and slapped on everything that he could twist to look scummy.
He had not mentioned acro at all before this point.
If anyone has received pms from oberyn in which he expresses concern of acro being scum prior to the rayn/acro outburst then I might be willing to change my mind on this.
Actually it does make more sense from a scum perspective. Kind of opportunistic and then very confirmation biased after already deciding earlier. It wouldn't be so strange if he had a strong reason to suspect Acro originally, but it pretty much came out of nowhere, didn't it? I wouldn't say he's definitely scum for this, more like slightly scummy, since it's certainly possible that he as town just started to tunnel Acro.
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On August 09 2013 18:07 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 17:59 Dandel Ion wrote:On August 09 2013 16:38 Oatsmaster wrote:
I feel that kush will show his alignment either way.
So you are basically suggesting a policy nk on lurkers right?
Cause you dont have specific targets. I dont know if I agree. Really? What indicates to you that he will? btw, I'm fully in favor of policy nk'ing lurkers. imo we should agree on 3 of them and have 2 houses shoot them respectively. Or maybe 2 with 3 shooting each? Hard to tell how much you need to kill them, 2 targets seems "safer" to result in something. Just try one out and see what happens. The specific distribution can be made in secret, dunno if that'd have an impact but i dont think it really matters to the thread who shoots who until after it's done (so we can see who didn't kill who), which might as well be claimed after. There's literally no downside to this. No need to waste extra KP on anyone. Just shoot until he's dead, then move on? Shouldn't the player die immediately (or soon) after receiving a fatal amount of KP?
Why would you drag it out over multiple cycles?
that only muddies the waters.
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ok 15 minutes past and nobody read my post. cya tomorrow guys
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oh i did read it
I'll be gracious and respond to it:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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On August 09 2013 18:00 Grackaroni wrote:Finally read the thread, I am most suspicious of Jrkirby. First off Nobody in House Martell has gotten a good read off of him because nobody in House Martell really talked to each. The best contribution in thread he made was calling out S0lstice for not electing his town read and naming 2 people town who the majority of town has already agreed were town. After that he started making posts such Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 06:35 jrkirby wrote:
Finally, why have all the houses not posted a list of their members yet?
I think that it's actually beneficial to town to post these lists, and here's why:
1) Once scum have a list of 5 of the houses, they have a list of every house.
2) in a 24 player game, scum almost guaranteed have 4-6 members. Scum are spread out (I think it's random or something, right?) so they already know probably 3-4 houses at the start.
3) 2 (or is it 3?) houses have already posted their list. There's a good chance this fills in the missing info for scum.
4) All the house lists will probably be posted by day 2 anyway. Scum will only be missing this info for a short time.
5) Scum know all the lords already. This further helps them fill in the gaps.
6) Knowing the houses is not too beneficial to scum. Scum are more likely to want to eliminate every non-scum player in a house than an entire house (based off my possibly flawed logic - they can use this to WIFOM, be careful).
7) Knowing the houses is beneficial to town. We can help predict who will be lord in later days, we can help predict who is likely to be shot. We know who can PM a certain player, so it's easier to find people with reads on them. We don't think two people are on a scumteam together when they're just house buddies. Things are simpler, we don't get confused when REDACTED is posted. The list goes on.
8) Displaying all houses gives more info to town than it gives to scum.
9) Transparency is beneficial to town, and giving out house lists helps with transparency.
I can think of one good reason why we might not want to give out house lists:
1) There might be 3P that wants to eliminate a house, or secondary objectives for scum to eliminate a house. This is entirely speculation though, so I don't put too much weight into it. This is a post that I would be ok with if it was in the start of the game, but he chose to talk about this during a time when scumhunting was actually taking place and he could actually participate in conversation. Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 06:41 jrkirby wrote:
One question I would like to ask the thread: Does anyone KNOW how much HP they have? I do not know how much HP I have. If you know, obviously I'm not asking you to announce how much HP you have to the thread. Actually, don't even say that you know how much HP you have. I just want to announce that I do not know how much HP I have.
This could be beneficial to town because then they can do better speculation on what people's roles are like. Choosing to talk about setup rather than scumhunting and he has already disappeared without really pressuring or conversing with anybody Everyone else has seemed engaged in the current conversations and actively scumhunting and these posts just didn't fit in with what I think a townie would be posting about during the time of the thread. He seems like he is more interested in blending into town than scumhunting. There was an exchange between Oats and Yamato at the start of the game that rubbed me the wrong way. It was so disruptive and anti-town, that I have trouble believing that it came from 2 town players. It didn't seem normal to me and I even got a little bit of a staged feeling (as in they could be both scum randomly attacking each other at the start of the game). I think remember someone claiming they were probably town for being aggressive but some scum are more comfortable getting in arguments with people to help buff up their post count and mask their lack of contributions. @Xata/Clarity/anyone awake. Is there anybody you would like me to comment on before i go to bed?
I certainly don't like jrkirby's weak thread presence. It's also weird to be so focused on setup, HP and such. He isn't even a Lord, so why is he interested in players' HP? Maybe he's scum?
In any case, grackaroni, what do you think of s0Lstice, Koshi, Acro and Oberyn?
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On August 09 2013 18:15 Grackaroni wrote:
ok 15 minutes past and nobody read my post. cya tomorrow guys
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On August 09 2013 18:15 Grackaroni wrote:
ok 15 minutes past and nobody read my post. cya tomorrow guys
I read it. I don't really agree simply because I see townies do this all the time. They enter like halfway through day 1 but act like it's still the first hours of the game. Because to them it feels that way.
Could you comment on my points on Oberyn? didn't think I'd need to ask, since you seemed willing to look into people if we asked you and I just made a giant post about him..
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On August 09 2013 18:15 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 18:07 Xatalos wrote:On August 09 2013 17:59 Dandel Ion wrote:On August 09 2013 16:38 Oatsmaster wrote:
I feel that kush will show his alignment either way.
So you are basically suggesting a policy nk on lurkers right?
Cause you dont have specific targets. I dont know if I agree. Really? What indicates to you that he will? btw, I'm fully in favor of policy nk'ing lurkers. imo we should agree on 3 of them and have 2 houses shoot them respectively. Or maybe 2 with 3 shooting each? Hard to tell how much you need to kill them, 2 targets seems "safer" to result in something. Just try one out and see what happens. The specific distribution can be made in secret, dunno if that'd have an impact but i dont think it really matters to the thread who shoots who until after it's done (so we can see who didn't kill who), which might as well be claimed after. There's literally no downside to this. No need to waste extra KP on anyone. Just shoot until he's dead, then move on? Shouldn't the player die immediately (or soon) after receiving a fatal amount of KP? Why would you drag it out over multiple cycles? that only muddies the waters.
Lord KP is instant and can be used at any time.
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On August 09 2013 18:22 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 18:15 Dandel Ion wrote:On August 09 2013 18:07 Xatalos wrote:On August 09 2013 17:59 Dandel Ion wrote:On August 09 2013 16:38 Oatsmaster wrote:
I feel that kush will show his alignment either way.
So you are basically suggesting a policy nk on lurkers right?
Cause you dont have specific targets. I dont know if I agree. Really? What indicates to you that he will? btw, I'm fully in favor of policy nk'ing lurkers. imo we should agree on 3 of them and have 2 houses shoot them respectively. Or maybe 2 with 3 shooting each? Hard to tell how much you need to kill them, 2 targets seems "safer" to result in something. Just try one out and see what happens. The specific distribution can be made in secret, dunno if that'd have an impact but i dont think it really matters to the thread who shoots who until after it's done (so we can see who didn't kill who), which might as well be claimed after. There's literally no downside to this. No need to waste extra KP on anyone. Just shoot until he's dead, then move on? Shouldn't the player die immediately (or soon) after receiving a fatal amount of KP? Why would you drag it out over multiple cycles? that only muddies the waters. Lord KP is instant and can be used at any time.
oh ok
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I just got home from work. Gonna post more onto other stuff, but first things first.
##Unvote:
After rereading our argument with Acrofales and Clarity´s post about him i don´t feel confident about this. The thing with Acrofales is that it is really hard to get a decent read on him because of his roleplay. I tend to look emotions besides what people post and i can´t notice any, aside from his post where seemed to be genuinely mad at me because i was "twisting his words". I can now understand him misunderstanding me and thinking i was trying to paint him as mafia in case he is town.
Please Acro, could you stop the roleplay stuff so i can actually read you?
Another thing. In Oberyn´s defense he was suspicious of Acro before our thing happened. He expressed his suspicion to me in PM´s and told me to not tell anyone about that (as there was this house HP stuff going on, he wanted more information from Acro regarding that). So i can see why he voted / laid out his case on Acro when he did and it makes sense to me.
Now i gotta reread stuff to tell you who i want to lynch. After all Solstice seems like a good candidate, FT feels a bit better after his comeback. Then there is johnnywup, who is overly defensive over nothing. I still think Onegu is scum.
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On August 09 2013 18:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Another thing. In Oberyn´s defense he was suspicious of Acro before our thing happened. He expressed his suspicion to me in PM´s and told me to not tell anyone about that (as there was this house HP stuff going on, he wanted more information from Acro regarding that). So i can see why he voted / laid out his case on Acro when he did and it makes sense to me.
Hmmm, okay. Could you specify what he said to you, does it match the reasons he laid out after his vote post?
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On August 09 2013 18:22 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 18:15 Grackaroni wrote:
ok 15 minutes past and nobody read my post. cya tomorrow guys I read it. I don't really agree simply because I see townies do this all the time. They enter like halfway through day 1 but act like it's still the first hours of the game. Because to them it feels that way. Could you comment on my points on Oberyn? didn't think I'd need to ask, since you seemed willing to look into people if we asked you and I just made a giant post about him..
I didn't really know what to make of that at first but after seeing Rayne's post there's nothing wrong with it. he was already suspicious of acro and just didn't feel like bringing it into the thread yet as opposed to having one thing make him vote and then feeling the need to justify it later by making up reasons he was suspicious of him before.
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On August 09 2013 18:38 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 18:22 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 09 2013 18:15 Grackaroni wrote:
ok 15 minutes past and nobody read my post. cya tomorrow guys I read it. I don't really agree simply because I see townies do this all the time. They enter like halfway through day 1 but act like it's still the first hours of the game. Because to them it feels that way. Could you comment on my points on Oberyn? didn't think I'd need to ask, since you seemed willing to look into people if we asked you and I just made a giant post about him.. I didn't really know what to make of that at first but after seeing Rayne's post there's nothing wrong with it. he was already suspicious of acro and just didn't feel like bringing it into the thread yet as opposed to having one thing make him vote and then feeling the need to justify it later by making up reasons he was suspicious of him before.
I don't really know he's pretty null for me.
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On August 09 2013 18:34 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 18:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Another thing. In Oberyn´s defense he was suspicious of Acro before our thing happened. He expressed his suspicion to me in PM´s and told me to not tell anyone about that (as there was this house HP stuff going on, he wanted more information from Acro regarding that). So i can see why he voted / laid out his case on Acro when he did and it makes sense to me. Hmmm, okay. Could you specify what he said to you, does it match the reasons he laid out after his vote post?
First we started talking about Onegu (his suggestion of using the house HP check), i told Oberyn this:
"Onegu´s suggestion is beyond stupid or scummy. Why should we give mafia information about how many HP people have, od D1, when there is not much to go with? Have you tried to ask his reasoning for that?"
Oberyn agreed with me. Then he said he finds it weird Acrofales agrees with Onegu and wants to use the HP check on their own house because it´s important for the lords to know about the HP so they can direct KP accordingly. Then he said Acro is his biggest suspect at the moment and asked me to not share this with anyone yet so he could keep questioning him.
Me:
"Hmm.. Ask him (Acro) about his motives to use the HP check. I find that extremely anti-town thing to do at this point, at least if a scum!Lord uses it (as they get the information). Assuming mafia does not know how much HP people have they are in the same boat with us townies right now. there is no reason to push that information to be known right now as mafia is the holder of the KP besides us lords. It does not help town at all. Keep up messaging with Acro, and keep me informed. "
Oberyn then told me that Acro had misunderstood the check as a single target check (i assume this means that you can pick one person - when in fact it´s a full house) and in that case Acro´s suggestion is not that scummy. First Acro had told Oberyn he thinks it should be used on D1 to find out about hp, which Oberyn thought was scummy, but then he had said it should be used to confirm lord kp, which was in Oberyn´s mind less scummy (i didin´t really get what that meant).
Me:
"Okay, if that´s true what you said about Acro it´s not a scumtell. I mean if he thought the check was not single. As k him how he can possibly think so (single target) when the OP clearly says otherwise. Pressure him on that. If he is mafia he might fuck up."
And that´s the last time we have talked about Acrofales.
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On August 09 2013 18:21 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 18:00 Grackaroni wrote:Finally read the thread, I am most suspicious of Jrkirby. First off Nobody in House Martell has gotten a good read off of him because nobody in House Martell really talked to each. The best contribution in thread he made was calling out S0lstice for not electing his town read and naming 2 people town who the majority of town has already agreed were town. After that he started making posts such On August 09 2013 06:35 jrkirby wrote:
Finally, why have all the houses not posted a list of their members yet?
I think that it's actually beneficial to town to post these lists, and here's why:
1) Once scum have a list of 5 of the houses, they have a list of every house.
2) in a 24 player game, scum almost guaranteed have 4-6 members. Scum are spread out (I think it's random or something, right?) so they already know probably 3-4 houses at the start.
3) 2 (or is it 3?) houses have already posted their list. There's a good chance this fills in the missing info for scum.
4) All the house lists will probably be posted by day 2 anyway. Scum will only be missing this info for a short time.
5) Scum know all the lords already. This further helps them fill in the gaps.
6) Knowing the houses is not too beneficial to scum. Scum are more likely to want to eliminate every non-scum player in a house than an entire house (based off my possibly flawed logic - they can use this to WIFOM, be careful).
7) Knowing the houses is beneficial to town. We can help predict who will be lord in later days, we can help predict who is likely to be shot. We know who can PM a certain player, so it's easier to find people with reads on them. We don't think two people are on a scumteam together when they're just house buddies. Things are simpler, we don't get confused when REDACTED is posted. The list goes on.
8) Displaying all houses gives more info to town than it gives to scum.
9) Transparency is beneficial to town, and giving out house lists helps with transparency.
I can think of one good reason why we might not want to give out house lists:
1) There might be 3P that wants to eliminate a house, or secondary objectives for scum to eliminate a house. This is entirely speculation though, so I don't put too much weight into it. This is a post that I would be ok with if it was in the start of the game, but he chose to talk about this during a time when scumhunting was actually taking place and he could actually participate in conversation. On August 09 2013 06:41 jrkirby wrote:
One question I would like to ask the thread: Does anyone KNOW how much HP they have? I do not know how much HP I have. If you know, obviously I'm not asking you to announce how much HP you have to the thread. Actually, don't even say that you know how much HP you have. I just want to announce that I do not know how much HP I have.
This could be beneficial to town because then they can do better speculation on what people's roles are like. Choosing to talk about setup rather than scumhunting and he has already disappeared without really pressuring or conversing with anybody Everyone else has seemed engaged in the current conversations and actively scumhunting and these posts just didn't fit in with what I think a townie would be posting about during the time of the thread. He seems like he is more interested in blending into town than scumhunting. There was an exchange between Oats and Yamato at the start of the game that rubbed me the wrong way. It was so disruptive and anti-town, that I have trouble believing that it came from 2 town players. It didn't seem normal to me and I even got a little bit of a staged feeling (as in they could be both scum randomly attacking each other at the start of the game). I think remember someone claiming they were probably town for being aggressive but some scum are more comfortable getting in arguments with people to help buff up their post count and mask their lack of contributions. @Xata/Clarity/anyone awake. Is there anybody you would like me to comment on before i go to bed? I certainly don't like jrkirby's weak thread presence. It's also weird to be so focused on setup, HP and such. He isn't even a Lord, so why is he interested in players' HP? Maybe he's scum? In any case, grackaroni, what do you think of s0Lstice, Koshi, Acro and Oberyn?
Koshi read town to me in his arguments with DI. (DI too)
I'm willing to forgive s0Lstice's choosing chromatically over Di because he was obviously caught up in an EPEEN measuring contest with DI and I think judging from both Koshi and s0Lstice's reactions to DI, DI was being obnoxious and it made him act irrationally. (not choose DI out of spite, justify it to himself with the possible waste of house power for nothing)
Acro I'm really not sure about, I'll look over him tomorrow because I actually am tired.
As for Jrkirby. @clarity, how many of those inexperienced players made posts like that in the middle of the game and then left without really talking about any player with anyone?
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On August 09 2013 18:22 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 18:15 Dandel Ion wrote:On August 09 2013 18:07 Xatalos wrote:On August 09 2013 17:59 Dandel Ion wrote:On August 09 2013 16:38 Oatsmaster wrote:
I feel that kush will show his alignment either way.
So you are basically suggesting a policy nk on lurkers right?
Cause you dont have specific targets. I dont know if I agree. Really? What indicates to you that he will? btw, I'm fully in favor of policy nk'ing lurkers. imo we should agree on 3 of them and have 2 houses shoot them respectively. Or maybe 2 with 3 shooting each? Hard to tell how much you need to kill them, 2 targets seems "safer" to result in something. Just try one out and see what happens. The specific distribution can be made in secret, dunno if that'd have an impact but i dont think it really matters to the thread who shoots who until after it's done (so we can see who didn't kill who), which might as well be claimed after. There's literally no downside to this. No need to waste extra KP on anyone. Just shoot until he's dead, then move on? Shouldn't the player die immediately (or soon) after receiving a fatal amount of KP? Why would you drag it out over multiple cycles? that only muddies the waters. Lord KP is instant and can be used at any time.
Xatalos this is not entirely true. Lord KP can be used at any time DURING NIGHT. We must decide the Lord KP now, before the night phase, because nights are silent and Lords can´t talk to each other during the night.
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On August 09 2013 18:50 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 18:21 Xatalos wrote:On August 09 2013 18:00 Grackaroni wrote:Finally read the thread, I am most suspicious of Jrkirby. First off Nobody in House Martell has gotten a good read off of him because nobody in House Martell really talked to each. The best contribution in thread he made was calling out S0lstice for not electing his town read and naming 2 people town who the majority of town has already agreed were town. After that he started making posts such On August 09 2013 06:35 jrkirby wrote:
Finally, why have all the houses not posted a list of their members yet?
I think that it's actually beneficial to town to post these lists, and here's why:
1) Once scum have a list of 5 of the houses, they have a list of every house.
2) in a 24 player game, scum almost guaranteed have 4-6 members. Scum are spread out (I think it's random or something, right?) so they already know probably 3-4 houses at the start.
3) 2 (or is it 3?) houses have already posted their list. There's a good chance this fills in the missing info for scum.
4) All the house lists will probably be posted by day 2 anyway. Scum will only be missing this info for a short time.
5) Scum know all the lords already. This further helps them fill in the gaps.
6) Knowing the houses is not too beneficial to scum. Scum are more likely to want to eliminate every non-scum player in a house than an entire house (based off my possibly flawed logic - they can use this to WIFOM, be careful).
7) Knowing the houses is beneficial to town. We can help predict who will be lord in later days, we can help predict who is likely to be shot. We know who can PM a certain player, so it's easier to find people with reads on them. We don't think two people are on a scumteam together when they're just house buddies. Things are simpler, we don't get confused when REDACTED is posted. The list goes on.
8) Displaying all houses gives more info to town than it gives to scum.
9) Transparency is beneficial to town, and giving out house lists helps with transparency.
I can think of one good reason why we might not want to give out house lists:
1) There might be 3P that wants to eliminate a house, or secondary objectives for scum to eliminate a house. This is entirely speculation though, so I don't put too much weight into it. This is a post that I would be ok with if it was in the start of the game, but he chose to talk about this during a time when scumhunting was actually taking place and he could actually participate in conversation. On August 09 2013 06:41 jrkirby wrote:
One question I would like to ask the thread: Does anyone KNOW how much HP they have? I do not know how much HP I have. If you know, obviously I'm not asking you to announce how much HP you have to the thread. Actually, don't even say that you know how much HP you have. I just want to announce that I do not know how much HP I have.
This could be beneficial to town because then they can do better speculation on what people's roles are like. Choosing to talk about setup rather than scumhunting and he has already disappeared without really pressuring or conversing with anybody Everyone else has seemed engaged in the current conversations and actively scumhunting and these posts just didn't fit in with what I think a townie would be posting about during the time of the thread. He seems like he is more interested in blending into town than scumhunting. There was an exchange between Oats and Yamato at the start of the game that rubbed me the wrong way. It was so disruptive and anti-town, that I have trouble believing that it came from 2 town players. It didn't seem normal to me and I even got a little bit of a staged feeling (as in they could be both scum randomly attacking each other at the start of the game). I think remember someone claiming they were probably town for being aggressive but some scum are more comfortable getting in arguments with people to help buff up their post count and mask their lack of contributions. @Xata/Clarity/anyone awake. Is there anybody you would like me to comment on before i go to bed? I certainly don't like jrkirby's weak thread presence. It's also weird to be so focused on setup, HP and such. He isn't even a Lord, so why is he interested in players' HP? Maybe he's scum? In any case, grackaroni, what do you think of s0Lstice, Koshi, Acro and Oberyn? Koshi read town to me in his arguments with DI. (DI too) I'm willing to forgive s0Lstice's choosing chromatically over Di because he was obviously caught up in an EPEEN measuring contest with DI and I think judging from both Koshi and s0Lstice's reactions to DI, DI was being obnoxious and it made him act irrationally. (not choose DI out of spite, justify it to himself with the possible waste of house power for nothing) Acro I'm really not sure about, I'll look over him tomorrow because I actually am tired. As for Jrkirby. @clarity, how many of those inexperienced players made posts like that in the middle of the game and then left without really talking about any player with anyone?
This guy seems to be in a QT with solstice.
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Dandel, you did play in Ego right?
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EPT
