EPTGoT Mafia: Lords and Liars - Page 55
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
Rayn, are you sure? That's not how I understood the rules at all. DrParnassus, what's your take on this matter? "Each house has an X kp shot every night cycle (combined, so shot every 72 hours) which is used by whoever is currently lord. They must pm the mods to send in the house kp and the action will go through as soon as a mod sees the pm." Since Oberyn already suspected Acro before coming to the conclusion of voting for him, I don't think it's really unnatural to tunnel for a bit and search for more reasons for Acro to be scum. I've done that as town and as scum, so I don't think it's too alignment indicative. I think it's more suspicious to avoid currently relevant topics, as DI mentioned. iamperfection, are you still vouching for a lurker lynch? Wouldn't KP fit that task much better? | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On August 09 2013 20:19 Xatalos wrote: Release the Gracken! Rayn, are you sure? That's not how I understood the rules at all. DrParnassus, what's your take on this matter? "Each house has an X kp shot every night cycle (combined, so shot every 72 hours) which is used by whoever is currently lord. They must pm the mods to send in the house kp and the action will go through as soon as a mod sees the pm." Since Oberyn already suspected Acro before coming to the conclusion of voting for him, I don't think it's really unnatural to tunnel for a bit and search for more reasons for Acro to be scum. I've done that as town and as scum, so I don't think it's too alignment indicative. I think it's more suspicious to avoid currently relevant topics, as DI mentioned. iamperfection, are you still vouching for a lurker lynch? Wouldn't KP fit that task much better? You don't think is weird that even though acro told oberyn that he thought the hp check was on a person rather than a house, oberyn failed to mention this in his post? Oberyn told rayn that if acro was speaking the truth about that, it's not anti-town. He also failed to mention any of the reasons he posted in thread to rayn, even though he was supposedly discussing his read with rayn, enough so that he didn't want rayn to tell anyone else his thoughts. | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On August 09 2013 20:29 Clarity_nl wrote: You don't think is weird that even though acro told oberyn that he thought the hp check was on a person rather than a house, oberyn failed to mention this in his post? Oberyn told rayn that if acro was speaking the truth about that, it's not anti-town. He also failed to mention any of the reasons he posted in thread to rayn, even though he was supposedly discussing his read with rayn, enough so that he didn't want rayn to tell anyone else his thoughts. Hmmm... When you put it like that, it seems like Oberyn was trying to paint Acro as scum no matter what. That's clearly scum motivated rather than town motivated. On the other hand, I think Acro *is* quite suspicious. It feels unlikely that they are both scum, but one of them could well be. I'd still put Acro ahead of Oberyn, and Oberyn's weird confirmation bias might just be misguided/emotional town play. Him not participating in current/ongoing topics is a bit more worrying though. If Oberyn is scum, then Acro most probably isn't. Actually I think they are somewhat equal in their chances of flipping scum, hard to say. Acro's forgettable entrance to the thread, weak case on rayn and overall relative uselessness puts him probably slightly ahead. His activity is good though, so he's not an optimal D1 lynch. | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On August 09 2013 20:54 Xatalos wrote: Clarity, do you have other scumreads than Oberyn by the way? I think solstice is a good lynch today unless something strange happens. His scumread on johnny makes no sense to me and his lord vote is obviously silly. Not voting DL despite having a townread on him because if he's scum he'll betray himself anyway...? Onegu feels scummy, the way he rapidly comes to people's defense, other than that he hasn't done much. Other than that, no not really. Risen is weird but scum doesn't just post 6 terrible scumreads in the span of an hour and then goes "BYE GUYS, DA BEECH" I liked him pointing out FT's opening post being scummy as hell. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
Maybe he's more active in pms? That said, I've played with iamp before (2012 though) and this seems to be his style. I don't disagree that lurkers need to be pressured, although as has been pointed out we have house KP for that, and hopefully iamp will agree with this. All the lords definitely need to have some form of conclusion about what abilities are used, on who and what time. Whether they share their conclusion in thread or not is up to them, but there should be an explanation of what was done the following day for sure (unless I'm not foreseeing some sort of plan that needs to keep most people in the dark) | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On August 09 2013 21:04 Clarity_nl wrote: I think solstice is a good lynch today unless something strange happens. His scumread on johnny makes no sense to me and his lord vote is obviously silly. Not voting DL despite having a townread on him because if he's scum he'll betray himself anyway...? Onegu feels scummy, the way he rapidly comes to people's defense, other than that he hasn't done much. Other than that, no not really. Risen is weird but scum doesn't just post 6 terrible scumreads in the span of an hour and then goes "BYE GUYS, DA BEECH" I liked him pointing out FT's opening post being scummy as hell. I actually pretty much agree with FT's point on Acro. "He’s holding back, not caring, not pressing as hard as he should be. Can you feeeeeel the apathy? Does he really care about the town’s best interests?" That describes Acro's first post perfectly and his later posts as well, although not as obviously. Acro just seems too apathetic in my opinion. FT's choice to save his argument until after hearing others' opinions first is weird, but how is it "scummy as hell"? He did present it even after receiving negative feedback, after all. Backing out would have been truly suspicious. I agree that Risen is quite likely town (unfortunately, one might also say). I don't agree about Onegu. He was mostly useless in Nuclear Winter Mafia, but his posts felt genuine (he was town). I also think his "scapegoat" theory, "befriending" theory and such in this game felt genuine. I wouldn't put him up in the lynch/KP candidates based on his doings so far. Obviously I agree about s0Lstice. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
That said his first post WAS scummy as hell. It became less scummy when he explained what he meant. I don't think FT is scum at the moment, but Risen was correct to call him out on it. Did Onegu soft defend people in NWM the way he's done at least twice this game? | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On August 09 2013 21:14 Clarity_nl wrote: I am also underwhelmed by iamp. He got voted lord but he doesn't seem to be doing much in thread. Maybe he's more active in pms? That said, I've played with iamp before (2012 though) and this seems to be his style. I don't disagree that lurkers need to be pressured, although as has been pointed out we have house KP for that, and hopefully iamp will agree with this. All the lords definitely need to have some form of conclusion about what abilities are used, on who and what time. Whether they share their conclusion in thread or not is up to them, but there should be an explanation of what was done the following day for sure (unless I'm not foreseeing some sort of plan that needs to keep most people in the dark) Unfortunately, I'm also a bit underwhelmed by iamperfection. His biggest contribution so far is proposing a lurker lynch... Underwhelming is a pretty fitting word for that :/ He promised to form a town PM circle and use it to find scum, and it's hard to say what he has achieved in the PM land, so he might have achieved something good there. | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On August 09 2013 21:27 Clarity_nl wrote: Yeah FT has decent points about Acro. That said his first post WAS scummy as hell. It became less scummy when he explained what he meant. I don't think FT is scum at the moment, but Risen was correct to call him out on it. Did Onegu soft defend people in NWM the way he's done at least twice this game? Well, not really. Maybe this counts: On July 08 2013 13:42 Onegu wrote: This is his reason for launching at xata I think, I think he means xata launched at him so he launched back. And here is the reason he launched. Although it's more of an explanation than a defense. Onegu's activity level seems to be on par with how he played in NWM, and I don't see any real differences in his play yet. Maybe slightly less aggressive, hard to say. Whatever, I don't think his scum atm. | ||
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
On August 09 2013 17:59 Dandel Ion wrote: imo we should agree on 3 of them and have 2 houses shoot them respectively. If you're going to say this, you have to list names. On August 09 2013 20:10 Dandel Ion wrote: I don't like how he plays. It feels like he's always trying to talk about things that are not relevant at the moment. Like, he keeps annoying me about sol while koshi is the topic, then when we finally talk about sol, the topic he liked so much, he suddenly goes on about acro instead. Not sure what that means for his alignment but it ain't feeling right. So you attack me for asking about sol, but you would be quite happy with sol. You attack me for poking at Acro, but you understand why he would be suspicious. And this means that my play doesn't "feel right"? In what way does moving forward the conversation targeted at people you view as likely scum make you dislike my play? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18318 Posts
You said the following, and I quote: On August 09 2013 11:32 s0Lstice wrote: Because if he is going to out himself independent of any other action in the game, then blowing the check to incriminate him is a waste. He is going to incriminate himself anyway. While I don't follow this reasoning, I can entertain the idea that you are a loyalist and look past the strange things you Baratheons do behind closed doors. I challenge you to ignore your whole internal controversy, and act as becomes a loyal citizen of the realm. If you recall, I suspected you were not a criminal at the PTP Festival, and I still feel confident that I can uncover your true motives if all of us stop focusing on the political travesty that occured at Storm's End. I see you have made a slight start, and will address your question to me: On August 09 2013 11:46 s0Lstice wrote: fuck it What is happening here Acro? I literally have no idea what you think of johnny. Clarify please. While I see no reason for the vulgar language, the question is a simple one. I am saying that I believe it is precisely because Ser Wup was accused behind closed doors, that he was subsequently paranoid in public. I do not understand how this is a bad thing. I don't believe the charges leveled against my kinsman hold water, and Johnny seems like a loyal subject of the realm. I thought that was clear from the very fact that I spoke in his defense. Why would I ever defend a Blackfyre pretender? So while I believe your focus on Johnny Wup is misguided at best, I will give you some time to recollect your thoughts before casting my vote for you again. For now, I have come to the insight, mainly upon the urging of both Lord Iamperfection and Ser Wup, as well as a good night's sleep, that I may be wrong about the Kraken lord. Everybody dismissing the evidence brought against him indicates that I either did a bad job explaining it, or it is not as strong as I believed. I do not believe I am bad at explaining things, so I must accept the latter. ##unvote | ||
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
On August 09 2013 16:55 Clarity_nl wrote: All is cool up until this point. He's buddying up to you, he's overstating his contributions. These are decent points. Here comes the thing I have an issue with though: Suddenly every interaction you've ever had with acro points to him being scum? Why didn't we hear from this earlier? You had not mentioned any of these points until now. Could anyone from Oberyn's house say if he ever mentioned these things before, and whether or not he talked about acro possibly being scum? You had a vote on him for one concise reason, implying you could lynch him for just that reason, and then you felt the need to suddenly attach 5 more reasons. Why is that, Oberyn? I honestly don't understand what you're getting at. You're saying that you would have preferred only a single reason that I was suspicious of him, rather than all of them? The vote was for a combination of all the reasons, I just happened to list them in back to back posts. As for why we didn't hear from this earlier, the only real new thing I've added is the explanation of why koshi/DI are town. Chrom also agreed that he came to that conclusion too easily and rayn I discussed the 1-shot hp usage with. Just to be clear, do you disagree that Acro is scummy? On August 09 2013 17:56 Clarity_nl wrote: Let me put it this way. In chronological order: 1. He takes advantage of the mess rayn and acro have created by voting for acro 2. He then goes back and explains why his reasoning in his votepost makes sense (this is fine) 3. He now shows that he went back and looked at his interactions with acro Why did he not look back at the interactions before voting him? Surely you look back at it BEFORE you vote someone? I believe he is scum who tried to take advantage of the situation, and acted too quickly, started doubting that the reasons he posted in thread looked genuine, so he went back and slapped on everything that he could twist to look scummy. He had not mentioned acro at all before this point. If anyone has received pms from oberyn in which he expresses concern of acro being scum prior to the rayn/acro outburst then I might be willing to change my mind on this. I expressed susupicion of Acro before rayn did. How can I be taking advantage of the situation when I've made it clear to multiple players that Acro is one of my top scum reads. The two posts were minutes apart. It's not like I went back 5 hours later and decided to come up with a case for my suspicions. Even if have a scum read on Acro, multiple reasons are going to be more convincing to others than a single one. I expressed suspicion of Acro way before, even asking chrom to check back with me if he comes across anything weird in PMs. On August 09 2013 20:29 Clarity_nl wrote: You don't think is weird that even though acro told oberyn that he thought the hp check was on a person rather than a house, oberyn failed to mention this in his post? Oberyn told rayn that if acro was speaking the truth about that, it's not anti-town. I didn't mention the hp check because it wasn't part of my case? I'm not sure what you're referring too based on that last statement. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On August 09 2013 21:44 Oberyn wrote: If you're going to say this, you have to list names. So you attack me for asking about sol, but you would be quite happy with sol. You attack me for poking at Acro, but you understand why he would be suspicious. And this means that my play doesn't "feel right"? In what way does moving forward the conversation targeted at people you view as likely scum make you dislike my play? If you can't even look at the signup-list and be able to tell who isn't posting, you aren't reading the thread. | ||
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
On August 09 2013 21:49 Dandel Ion wrote: If you can't even look at the signup-list and be able to tell who isn't posting, you aren't reading the thread. There is no reason to respond like this as town. I asked you for specific individuals that you believe should be shot. There are at least 10 people who could be classified as lurkers. They obviously aren't all mafia. Which ones are more likely to flip mafia? | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On August 09 2013 21:52 Oberyn wrote: There is no reason to respond like this as town. I asked you for specific individuals that you believe should be shot. There are at least 10 people who could be classified as lurkers. They obviously aren't all mafia. Which ones are more likely to flip mafia? See, you do know who's a lurker and who's not. Wasn't that hard was it. | ||
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
On August 09 2013 21:54 Dandel Ion wrote: See, you do know who's a lurker and who's not. Wasn't that hard was it. Are you trying to imitate Ace or something? Keep working on it. | ||
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