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On August 09 2013 18:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 18:34 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 09 2013 18:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Another thing. In Oberyn´s defense he was suspicious of Acro before our thing happened. He expressed his suspicion to me in PM´s and told me to not tell anyone about that (as there was this house HP stuff going on, he wanted more information from Acro regarding that). So i can see why he voted / laid out his case on Acro when he did and it makes sense to me. Hmmm, okay. Could you specify what he said to you, does it match the reasons he laid out after his vote post? First we started talking about Onegu (his suggestion of using the house HP check), i told Oberyn this: "Onegu´s suggestion is beyond stupid or scummy. Why should we give mafia information about how many HP people have, od D1, when there is not much to go with? Have you tried to ask his reasoning for that?" Oberyn agreed with me. Then he said he finds it weird Acrofales agrees with Onegu and wants to use the HP check on their own house because it´s important for the lords to know about the HP so they can direct KP accordingly. Then he said Acro is his biggest suspect at the moment and asked me to not share this with anyone yet so he could keep questioning him. Me: "Hmm.. Ask him (Acro) about his motives to use the HP check. I find that extremely anti-town thing to do at this point, at least if a scum!Lord uses it (as they get the information). Assuming mafia does not know how much HP people have they are in the same boat with us townies right now. there is no reason to push that information to be known right now as mafia is the holder of the KP besides us lords. It does not help town at all. Keep up messaging with Acro, and keep me informed. " Oberyn then told me that Acro had misunderstood the check as a single target check (i assume this means that you can pick one person - when in fact it´s a full house) and in that case Acro´s suggestion is not that scummy. First Acro had told Oberyn he thinks it should be used on D1 to find out about hp, which Oberyn thought was scummy, but then he had said it should be used to confirm lord kp, which was in Oberyn´s mind less scummy (i didin´t really get what that meant). Me: "Okay, if that´s true what you said about Acro it´s not a scumtell. I mean if he thought the check was not single. As k him how he can possibly think so (single target) when the OP clearly says otherwise. Pressure him on that. If he is mafia he might fuck up." And that´s the last time we have talked about Acrofales.
So you're saying that in speaking to you he never mentioned any of these reasons for acro possibly being scum:
On August 09 2013 09:02 Oberyn wrote:
More on Acrofales:
I first contact him via pm's because I found his conclusion that DI and koshi are both town quite puzzling. When I asked about it futher, he explained that he doesn't think DI truly thinks that sol and koshi are town, he is simply pressuring them. Based on DI's emotional tunnel, I certainly do not draw the same conclusion. He also inadequately explains why koshi is town. He states that DI is overreacting on his views about koshi., but how is this indicative of koshi's alignment? He states that he isn't interested in considering a koshi lynch, but doesn't provide a solid reason. Furthermore, if you earlier thought that DI was faking his read on koshi to pressure him, how is he suddenly overreacting on his read? That's a contradiction.
Initially, he thought that it was a good idea to use the health check simply to figure out the hp system. This is incredibly anti-town. When I attack him for his plan, he quickly drops it.
Acro's house is a slew of inactives, but he has shown little interest in dealing with them.
In the thread, Acro has said a lot of nothing. He is using the role playing nonsense to cover up the fact that he isn't sharing many strong reads. I see little reason why he shouldn't be considered for a lynch today.
Also notice how he does not mention that acro told him he thought the hp check was on a single person, and how, if that were true, it wouldn't be so anti-town.
He just mentions how [the initial way he perceived acro's idea was very anti town]
On August 09 2013 18:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Another thing. In Oberyn´s defense he was suspicious of Acro before our thing happened. He expressed his suspicion to me in PM´s and told me to not tell anyone about that (as there was this house HP stuff going on, he wanted more information from Acro regarding that). So i can see why he voted / laid out his case on Acro when he did and it makes sense to me.
So... why are you defending him? The way you explained your pms it discredits one of his points on acro, and all the other points it turns out he never mentioned to you when he was discussing his suspicion.
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On August 09 2013 18:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Dandel, you did play in Ego right?
I hosted Ego
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On August 09 2013 18:50 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 18:21 Xatalos wrote:On August 09 2013 18:00 Grackaroni wrote:Finally read the thread, I am most suspicious of Jrkirby. First off Nobody in House Martell has gotten a good read off of him because nobody in House Martell really talked to each. The best contribution in thread he made was calling out S0lstice for not electing his town read and naming 2 people town who the majority of town has already agreed were town. After that he started making posts such On August 09 2013 06:35 jrkirby wrote:
Finally, why have all the houses not posted a list of their members yet?
I think that it's actually beneficial to town to post these lists, and here's why:
1) Once scum have a list of 5 of the houses, they have a list of every house.
2) in a 24 player game, scum almost guaranteed have 4-6 members. Scum are spread out (I think it's random or something, right?) so they already know probably 3-4 houses at the start.
3) 2 (or is it 3?) houses have already posted their list. There's a good chance this fills in the missing info for scum.
4) All the house lists will probably be posted by day 2 anyway. Scum will only be missing this info for a short time.
5) Scum know all the lords already. This further helps them fill in the gaps.
6) Knowing the houses is not too beneficial to scum. Scum are more likely to want to eliminate every non-scum player in a house than an entire house (based off my possibly flawed logic - they can use this to WIFOM, be careful).
7) Knowing the houses is beneficial to town. We can help predict who will be lord in later days, we can help predict who is likely to be shot. We know who can PM a certain player, so it's easier to find people with reads on them. We don't think two people are on a scumteam together when they're just house buddies. Things are simpler, we don't get confused when REDACTED is posted. The list goes on.
8) Displaying all houses gives more info to town than it gives to scum.
9) Transparency is beneficial to town, and giving out house lists helps with transparency.
I can think of one good reason why we might not want to give out house lists:
1) There might be 3P that wants to eliminate a house, or secondary objectives for scum to eliminate a house. This is entirely speculation though, so I don't put too much weight into it. This is a post that I would be ok with if it was in the start of the game, but he chose to talk about this during a time when scumhunting was actually taking place and he could actually participate in conversation. On August 09 2013 06:41 jrkirby wrote:
One question I would like to ask the thread: Does anyone KNOW how much HP they have? I do not know how much HP I have. If you know, obviously I'm not asking you to announce how much HP you have to the thread. Actually, don't even say that you know how much HP you have. I just want to announce that I do not know how much HP I have.
This could be beneficial to town because then they can do better speculation on what people's roles are like. Choosing to talk about setup rather than scumhunting and he has already disappeared without really pressuring or conversing with anybody Everyone else has seemed engaged in the current conversations and actively scumhunting and these posts just didn't fit in with what I think a townie would be posting about during the time of the thread. He seems like he is more interested in blending into town than scumhunting. There was an exchange between Oats and Yamato at the start of the game that rubbed me the wrong way. It was so disruptive and anti-town, that I have trouble believing that it came from 2 town players. It didn't seem normal to me and I even got a little bit of a staged feeling (as in they could be both scum randomly attacking each other at the start of the game). I think remember someone claiming they were probably town for being aggressive but some scum are more comfortable getting in arguments with people to help buff up their post count and mask their lack of contributions. @Xata/Clarity/anyone awake. Is there anybody you would like me to comment on before i go to bed? I certainly don't like jrkirby's weak thread presence. It's also weird to be so focused on setup, HP and such. He isn't even a Lord, so why is he interested in players' HP? Maybe he's scum? In any case, grackaroni, what do you think of s0Lstice, Koshi, Acro and Oberyn? Koshi read town to me in his arguments with DI. (DI too) I'm willing to forgive s0Lstice's choosing chromatically over Di because he was obviously caught up in an EPEEN measuring contest with DI and I think judging from both Koshi and s0Lstice's reactions to DI, DI was being obnoxious and it made him act irrationally. (not choose DI out of spite, justify it to himself with the possible waste of house power for nothing) Acro I'm really not sure about, I'll look over him tomorrow because I actually am tired. As for Jrkirby. @clarity, how many of those inexperienced players made posts like that in the middle of the game and then left without really talking about any player with anyone?
A lot? Especially if they just caught up to the thread. I've done this myself. You read 25-30 pages and then you have to process all the information. So what do you talk about? The stuff you thought about before reading those pages.
I'm not saying he can't be scum but your reasons don't convince me.
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On August 09 2013 18:58 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 18:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 09 2013 18:34 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 09 2013 18:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Another thing. In Oberyn´s defense he was suspicious of Acro before our thing happened. He expressed his suspicion to me in PM´s and told me to not tell anyone about that (as there was this house HP stuff going on, he wanted more information from Acro regarding that). So i can see why he voted / laid out his case on Acro when he did and it makes sense to me. Hmmm, okay. Could you specify what he said to you, does it match the reasons he laid out after his vote post? First we started talking about Onegu (his suggestion of using the house HP check), i told Oberyn this: "Onegu´s suggestion is beyond stupid or scummy. Why should we give mafia information about how many HP people have, od D1, when there is not much to go with? Have you tried to ask his reasoning for that?" Oberyn agreed with me. Then he said he finds it weird Acrofales agrees with Onegu and wants to use the HP check on their own house because it´s important for the lords to know about the HP so they can direct KP accordingly. Then he said Acro is his biggest suspect at the moment and asked me to not share this with anyone yet so he could keep questioning him. Me: "Hmm.. Ask him (Acro) about his motives to use the HP check. I find that extremely anti-town thing to do at this point, at least if a scum!Lord uses it (as they get the information). Assuming mafia does not know how much HP people have they are in the same boat with us townies right now. there is no reason to push that information to be known right now as mafia is the holder of the KP besides us lords. It does not help town at all. Keep up messaging with Acro, and keep me informed. " Oberyn then told me that Acro had misunderstood the check as a single target check (i assume this means that you can pick one person - when in fact it´s a full house) and in that case Acro´s suggestion is not that scummy. First Acro had told Oberyn he thinks it should be used on D1 to find out about hp, which Oberyn thought was scummy, but then he had said it should be used to confirm lord kp, which was in Oberyn´s mind less scummy (i didin´t really get what that meant). Me: "Okay, if that´s true what you said about Acro it´s not a scumtell. I mean if he thought the check was not single. As k him how he can possibly think so (single target) when the OP clearly says otherwise. Pressure him on that. If he is mafia he might fuck up." And that´s the last time we have talked about Acrofales. So you're saying that in speaking to you he never mentioned any of these reasons for acro possibly being scum: Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 09:02 Oberyn wrote:
More on Acrofales:
I first contact him via pm's because I found his conclusion that DI and koshi are both town quite puzzling. When I asked about it futher, he explained that he doesn't think DI truly thinks that sol and koshi are town, he is simply pressuring them. Based on DI's emotional tunnel, I certainly do not draw the same conclusion. He also inadequately explains why koshi is town. He states that DI is overreacting on his views about koshi., but how is this indicative of koshi's alignment? He states that he isn't interested in considering a koshi lynch, but doesn't provide a solid reason. Furthermore, if you earlier thought that DI was faking his read on koshi to pressure him, how is he suddenly overreacting on his read? That's a contradiction.
Initially, he thought that it was a good idea to use the health check simply to figure out the hp system. This is incredibly anti-town. When I attack him for his plan, he quickly drops it.
Acro's house is a slew of inactives, but he has shown little interest in dealing with them.
In the thread, Acro has said a lot of nothing. He is using the role playing nonsense to cover up the fact that he isn't sharing many strong reads. I see little reason why he shouldn't be considered for a lynch today.
Also notice how he does not mention that acro told him he thought the hp check was on a single person, and how, if that were true, it wouldn't be so anti-town. He just mentions how [the initial way he perceived acro's idea was very anti town] Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 18:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Another thing. In Oberyn´s defense he was suspicious of Acro before our thing happened. He expressed his suspicion to me in PM´s and told me to not tell anyone about that (as there was this house HP stuff going on, he wanted more information from Acro regarding that). So i can see why he voted / laid out his case on Acro when he did and it makes sense to me. So... why are you defending him? The way you explained your pms it discredits one of his points on acro, and all the other points it turns out he never mentioned to you when he was discussing his suspicion.
When Oberyn said he is suspicious of Acro it was because of the Onegu thing "amongst some other things". Tbh i never asked Oberyn what these other things are because the HP thing struck off me scummy.
But you are right, Oberyn is leaving some stuff out here. I though Acro was scummy only after he had been corrected about how HP-thing worked and he STILL wanted to go with the check (he PM´d me about it). I have no idea what Acrofales & Oberyn have talked about and if Oberyn´s points are valid or not. To me they looked valid.
Oberyn, can you rephrase your PM-convos with Acrofales and post them in thread please?
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On August 09 2013 18:58 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 18:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Dandel, you did play in Ego right? I hosted Ego
Oh fuck, wrong game. I meant RED. :D
Did you play in that one, if you did, do you remember what happened with grackaroni in that game?
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On August 09 2013 19:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 18:58 Dandel Ion wrote:On August 09 2013 18:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Dandel, you did play in Ego right? I hosted Ego Oh fuck, wrong game. I meant RED. :D Did you play in that one, if you did, do you remember what happened with grackaroni in that game?
I got called out by palmar as town for making awkward posts that weren't directed at specific people. Got frustrated. Woke up early in the morning to try to get some valid reads and was shot by you 1/2 way through day 1. Good fun 
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I asked because i have strong reasons to believe the dude is town.
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Nevermind, the main point is this:
In Red there is a mason group of me, hapa, acro and grack. Acro thinks he is talking in scum QT (lol) and claims a vote rigger. Grack sees this and what´s his response. He immediately claims his role in the mason QT. Then he posts some "not so bright stuff" in thread and gets hc-tunneled by Palmar for the rest of his game.
Look at his first post in this game. He immediately lays out everything he has gathered on N0, not thinking about if he should claim who his housemates are or not.
This post in itself and compared to Red Teams Prize screams that Grackaroni is town.
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I actually forgot grack was in RED, but I vaguely recall now.
What I remember well about it is how I found all* the scum because I'm such a swag playa.
yamato got dunked in the first half hour, l0l
*sinani was kind of by association so i dunno if that really counts.
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tho i guess I'll look at grack's posts in particular.
I just found it peculiar that grackamole talks about our exchanges in a way that suggests that he heard about them by solstice, he has the same kind of "bias" towards it, and not all of it got conveyed into the thread in the proportions it happened.
It sounded like the retelling of information solstice would have given him, because the points grack uses to excuse sol are the kind of shit sol tried to excuse himself out of actually answering (to) me.
Peculiar, peculiar.
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On August 09 2013 19:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nevermind, the main point is this:
In Red there is a mason group of me, hapa, acro and grack. Acro thinks he is talking in scum QT (lol) and claims a vote rigger. Grack sees this and what´s his response. He immediately claims his role in the mason QT. Then he posts some "not so bright stuff" in thread and gets hc-tunneled by Palmar for the rest of his game.
Look at his first post in this game. He immediately lays out everything he has gathered on N0, not thinking about if he should claim who his housemates are or not.
This post in itself and compared to Red Teams Prize screams that Grackaroni is town.
I'm pretty sure my response was to laugh and i said that I saw that he said he was vote rigger after he edited it out. None of us caught onto that he thought our qt was the scum qt.
Also my first comment was that I thought Sinai was scum and I got picked apart for not addressing my posts at anyone. Well Sinani was scum and Palmar was convinced he wasn't so 
Back to important stuff. Can you explain the meta more clearly. What can you know from that one 24 hour period?
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Hmm.. you are right. The wording in his "i forgive solstice" part reads really weird to me aswell.
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On August 09 2013 19:38 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 19:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nevermind, the main point is this:
In Red there is a mason group of me, hapa, acro and grack. Acro thinks he is talking in scum QT (lol) and claims a vote rigger. Grack sees this and what´s his response. He immediately claims his role in the mason QT. Then he posts some "not so bright stuff" in thread and gets hc-tunneled by Palmar for the rest of his game.
Look at his first post in this game. He immediately lays out everything he has gathered on N0, not thinking about if he should claim who his housemates are or not.
This post in itself and compared to Red Teams Prize screams that Grackaroni is town. I'm pretty sure my response was to laugh and i said that I saw that he said he was vote rigger after he edited it out. None of us caught onto that he thought our qt was the scum qt. Also my first comment was that I thought Sinai was scum and I got picked apart for not addressing my posts at anyone. Well Sinani was scum and Palmar was convinced he wasn't so Back to important stuff. Can you explain the meta more clearly. What can you know from that one 24 hour period?
Except that i caught that and i was sure Acro was mafia from that post. I however had my reasons to be quiet about it (i was the imbalanced half town, half mafia, half SK role who needed all masons dead). If i was 100% town or if Hapahauli caught that comment Acrofales would have been 100% lynched on D1 based purely on him claim.
The point is that your play early on is 100% in line with that game. You don´t think much about what you say. You lay out information you have (even if it might harm you). I would think you would be far more restricted if you were mafia.
That being said, can you explain what Dandel pointed out from your post about Solstice?
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Eh, just skimming over his red filter, I don't really see tooooo much of a striking resemblance. Maybe a little, but it doesn't scream to me as you said it would.
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On August 09 2013 19:44 Dandel Ion wrote:
Eh, just skimming over his red filter, I don't really see tooooo much of a striking resemblance. Maybe a little, but it doesn't scream to me as you said it would.
It´s more what he said in mason QT. I didn´t even read Grackaroni´s posts in that game because i was sure the guy was town from how he acted in our mason QT.
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On August 09 2013 19:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 19:38 Grackaroni wrote:On August 09 2013 19:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nevermind, the main point is this:
In Red there is a mason group of me, hapa, acro and grack. Acro thinks he is talking in scum QT (lol) and claims a vote rigger. Grack sees this and what´s his response. He immediately claims his role in the mason QT. Then he posts some "not so bright stuff" in thread and gets hc-tunneled by Palmar for the rest of his game.
Look at his first post in this game. He immediately lays out everything he has gathered on N0, not thinking about if he should claim who his housemates are or not.
This post in itself and compared to Red Teams Prize screams that Grackaroni is town. I'm pretty sure my response was to laugh and i said that I saw that he said he was vote rigger after he edited it out. None of us caught onto that he thought our qt was the scum qt. Also my first comment was that I thought Sinai was scum and I got picked apart for not addressing my posts at anyone. Well Sinani was scum and Palmar was convinced he wasn't so Back to important stuff. Can you explain the meta more clearly. What can you know from that one 24 hour period? Except that i caught that and i was sure Acro was mafia from that post. I however had my reasons to be quiet about it (i was the imbalanced half town, half mafia, half SK role who needed all masons dead). If i was 100% town or if Hapahauli caught that comment Acrofales would have been 100% lynched on D1 based purely on him claim. The point is that your play early on is 100% in line with that game. You don´t think much about what you say. You lay out information you have (even if it might harm you). I would think you would be far more restricted if you were mafia. That being said, can you explain what Dandel pointed out from your post about Solstice?
You said after your role was out that you believed I was the most likely mafia in our group and that's why you shot me. What is there to explain? I inferred that is what happened from all of the baratheon perspectives. I don't have a town read on him. He hasn't contributed much but I'm not going to hold The Lord vote against him.
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So you're saying with your anointed power as certified grack reader that grack is town?
Or are you saying you just kinda feel like he's town?
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Actually fuck it. My memory is failing on me. I just read the Red QT and turns out it wasn´t at all as i remembered.
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Any thoughts on Oberyn dandel?
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On August 09 2013 20:05 Clarity_nl wrote:
Any thoughts on Oberyn dandel?
I don't like how he plays.
It feels like he's always trying to talk about things that are not relevant at the moment.
Like, he keeps annoying me about sol while koshi is the topic, then when we finally talk about sol, the topic he liked so much, he suddenly goes on about acro instead.
Not sure what that means for his alignment but it ain't feeling right.
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EPT
