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On August 09 2013 13:32 Risen wrote:
Not really. Just got back from da beech, read through the posts that have been made since I've been gone, and responded to FT. Now I'm going to take a bath, watch some House of Cards, and go to sleep. I'll be back tomorrow morning.
as long as you admit they are bad 
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On August 09 2013 11:21 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:06 Chromatically wrote:On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote:
Right so it went down like this. I asked to be lord. Two of our guys are fairly new, and I was concerned with their ability to use the spot effectively. This left me and Dandel. He and I got into it pretty good arguing about which of us is better suited for the role, and he somehow extracted a scumread on me from it because he thinks he is good and I said I'm better (holy shit I'm misrepresenting his ability!). He also claimed I was clinging to some weak reasons for wanting to be lord. I felt the same about his reasons. We were at an impasse, with neither wanting to vote for the other. We therefore both settled on Chrom. Both of us seemed to agree that Koshi was looking shady in PMs, so I guess it was the most natural outcome all things considered.
My discussions with Dandel had me leaning town on him. Like I've been telling both Chrom and Dandel though, I really am not comfortable with Dandel as a lord until I am completely sure he is town. As scum, Dandel knows he will be caught. He will therefore have no qualms about using our house abilities (the KP, the one-shot HP check) in a way that is incriminating as he is going to be lynched or vigged anyway. The hypothetical I layed out was that he'd blow our HP check and shoot the towniest dude in the thread. These are things that would probably be traced back to him in the future, but again it's not gonna matter. Just a total waste of our first cycle abilities. At the time, I had to assume that house KP could even be strong enough to kill someone. So thats another strike. A typical scum player is not trying to be obv scum and therefore is unlikely to be so cavalier with these. The risk of scum Dandel trolling his way to the lynch block and me being wrong with my early town read made him unelectable to me for the first cycle.
I pretty much thought that I was better suited. Koshi early on said he was gonna vote for me, but then retracted when he started his own campaign. Chrom preferred Dandel over me because Dandel has easy scum meta. This created an awkward situation. With Dandel refusing to vote me and vice versa, we went to Chrom.
Why are you trying to spin this? You literally told me that you were "reasonably sure" that he was town. That's a STRONG read. Now you're trying to say that you were "leaning town", a weak read? As I've already said, catching scum is a far higher priority than the nightactions. EVEN if you thought that the vigi shot was a 100% hp shot, 1 town for 1 scum is always a good trade. That's assuming that he is scum, which you thought was very unlikely (or maybe not anymore, I guess). Look at this from both sides: Town Sol might see this danger in letting DI be lord, and resist DI in favor of himself, who he sees as the stronger town player. Even with a strong town read on DI, he would prefer himself. HOWEVER, once it became clear that Sol wasn't going to be lord, he would switch to his strong town read, Dandel. Town Sol would never switch to a null read because of the chance of wasting our nightactions, which aren't even that powerful. Scum Sol wants himself to be lord above DI, the strongest town player, at all costs. He tries to invent some reasons why, so he starts by brushing him off with "he's not serious enough". Then, when DI looks like a better candidate for lord, he comes up with the scenario where DI blows the nightactions. When he realizes that he can't become lord, he consolidates onto the weaker town player (myself). AFTER he does this, he slips that he has a strong town read on DI, without realizing that this is inconsistent with his actions. Which one of these sounds more likely? Do you really think that Sol values these nightactions THIS highly? There is no spin, my lord. My position has been clear and consistent. It's obvious you disagree with it, but I don't see how it makes me scum. Do you believe that I believe that Dandel will out himself as scum if he is scum for any given game without any outside help? If so then my argument holds water. Also, reasonably sure is not totally sure. I said I would consider Dandel for lord once I am totally sure he is town. I saw no reason to do so while there was still any doubt, for the reasons I mentioned.
This is ridiculous. You will only consider voting him when you're 100% certain he is town? That will never happen, barring a DT check or something.
I have a very hard time believing that any townie wouldn't vote their strong townread for flimsy reasons like the ones you've said. I'm obviously not the only one that thinks these reasons are weak.
It just makes much more sense from a scum perspective than it does a town perspective like I said earlier (starting off by brushing him off as not serious, then only coming up with the nightaction explanation later after DI was a serious candidate).
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On August 09 2013 13:43 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 11:21 s0Lstice wrote:On August 09 2013 08:06 Chromatically wrote:On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote:
Right so it went down like this. I asked to be lord. Two of our guys are fairly new, and I was concerned with their ability to use the spot effectively. This left me and Dandel. He and I got into it pretty good arguing about which of us is better suited for the role, and he somehow extracted a scumread on me from it because he thinks he is good and I said I'm better (holy shit I'm misrepresenting his ability!). He also claimed I was clinging to some weak reasons for wanting to be lord. I felt the same about his reasons. We were at an impasse, with neither wanting to vote for the other. We therefore both settled on Chrom. Both of us seemed to agree that Koshi was looking shady in PMs, so I guess it was the most natural outcome all things considered.
My discussions with Dandel had me leaning town on him. Like I've been telling both Chrom and Dandel though, I really am not comfortable with Dandel as a lord until I am completely sure he is town. As scum, Dandel knows he will be caught. He will therefore have no qualms about using our house abilities (the KP, the one-shot HP check) in a way that is incriminating as he is going to be lynched or vigged anyway. The hypothetical I layed out was that he'd blow our HP check and shoot the towniest dude in the thread. These are things that would probably be traced back to him in the future, but again it's not gonna matter. Just a total waste of our first cycle abilities. At the time, I had to assume that house KP could even be strong enough to kill someone. So thats another strike. A typical scum player is not trying to be obv scum and therefore is unlikely to be so cavalier with these. The risk of scum Dandel trolling his way to the lynch block and me being wrong with my early town read made him unelectable to me for the first cycle.
I pretty much thought that I was better suited. Koshi early on said he was gonna vote for me, but then retracted when he started his own campaign. Chrom preferred Dandel over me because Dandel has easy scum meta. This created an awkward situation. With Dandel refusing to vote me and vice versa, we went to Chrom.
Why are you trying to spin this? You literally told me that you were "reasonably sure" that he was town. That's a STRONG read. Now you're trying to say that you were "leaning town", a weak read? As I've already said, catching scum is a far higher priority than the nightactions. EVEN if you thought that the vigi shot was a 100% hp shot, 1 town for 1 scum is always a good trade. That's assuming that he is scum, which you thought was very unlikely (or maybe not anymore, I guess). Look at this from both sides: Town Sol might see this danger in letting DI be lord, and resist DI in favor of himself, who he sees as the stronger town player. Even with a strong town read on DI, he would prefer himself. HOWEVER, once it became clear that Sol wasn't going to be lord, he would switch to his strong town read, Dandel. Town Sol would never switch to a null read because of the chance of wasting our nightactions, which aren't even that powerful. Scum Sol wants himself to be lord above DI, the strongest town player, at all costs. He tries to invent some reasons why, so he starts by brushing him off with "he's not serious enough". Then, when DI looks like a better candidate for lord, he comes up with the scenario where DI blows the nightactions. When he realizes that he can't become lord, he consolidates onto the weaker town player (myself). AFTER he does this, he slips that he has a strong town read on DI, without realizing that this is inconsistent with his actions. Which one of these sounds more likely? Do you really think that Sol values these nightactions THIS highly? There is no spin, my lord. My position has been clear and consistent. It's obvious you disagree with it, but I don't see how it makes me scum. Do you believe that I believe that Dandel will out himself as scum if he is scum for any given game without any outside help? If so then my argument holds water. Also, reasonably sure is not totally sure. I said I would consider Dandel for lord once I am totally sure he is town. I saw no reason to do so while there was still any doubt, for the reasons I mentioned. This is ridiculous. You will only consider voting him when you're 100% certain he is town? That will never happen, barring a DT check or something. I have a very hard time believing that any townie wouldn't vote their strong townread for flimsy reasons like the ones you've said. I'm obviously not the only one that thinks these reasons are weak. It just makes much more sense from a scum perspective than it does a town perspective like I said earlier (starting off by brushing him off as not serious, then only coming up with the nightaction explanation later after DI was a serious candidate).
Cool, and I'm beginning to wonder why you keep clinging to this when I've been up to plenty of stuff in the meantime and have explained it ad nauseum. What do you think of me lately, and go respond to my PM yea?
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Also you are wrong that its impossible to be 100% sure or near enough that it doesnt matter on Dandel
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The whole point is to see what other people think of it, then post what I think about it. I didn't realize there was an Acro wagon. You are also making the assumption that I find Acro scummy. My post does not necessitate that at all.
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EBWOP: last post addressed to risen.
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how are those thoughts on the thread coming firm?????
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Firm, why are you drawing attention to that post if it presumably does not make Acro scummy to you? Does it make him look town?
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On August 09 2013 14:01 s0Lstice wrote:
Firm, why are you drawing attention to that post if it presumably does not make Acro scummy to you? Does it make him look town?
You will see in a moment. Can you look over the post for me and see if you see anything that stands out to you?
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On August 09 2013 14:02 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 14:01 s0Lstice wrote:
Firm, why are you drawing attention to that post if it presumably does not make Acro scummy to you? Does it make him look town? You will see in a moment. Can you look over the post for me and see if you see anything that stands out to you?
You first good sir. Don't let me distract you from doing something useful. Just give us something.
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On August 09 2013 14:02 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 14:01 s0Lstice wrote:
Firm, why are you drawing attention to that post if it presumably does not make Acro scummy to you? Does it make him look town? You will see in a moment. Can you look over the post for me and see if you see anything that stands out to you?
if you have something to say, say it
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On August 09 2013 14:02 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 14:01 s0Lstice wrote:
Firm, why are you drawing attention to that post if it presumably does not make Acro scummy to you? Does it make him look town? You will see in a moment. Can you look over the post for me and see if you see anything that stands out to you?
i see nothing noteworthy in a scum perspective
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On August 09 2013 11:03 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 06:07 johnnywup wrote:
you're the one with 3 votes on you. if we have thoughts that are mutually exclusive to alignment, it would like I was more townie, no? I do not think the thoughts are mutually exclusive to alignment, by the way.
And what thoughts are you talking about exactly? Just the speculating on a possible 3p wincon? Because if that's it then you're not saying anything. what in gods name is this? because I had votes on me, I should be thinking I'm scum, and therefore your thought was more townie? Acro confirmed that you were thinking about the 3p wincon thing pre-game, so that's whatevs...but what are you getting at with the above quote?
Can you answer this johnny?
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no, other people think your scum so if our thoughts are mutually exclusive to alignment (which I was saying they are not, and you seemed to be saying) my thoughts would be more likely townie because everyone seemed to think you were scum. it was probably a pretty weak argument though since what people think doesn't really matter. I was thinking of deleting it before I posted that tbh
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You people are useless. Alright, I do it myself.
Here is the post for reference.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423047¤tpage=28#551
Here is Yamato's opening scum post in Sicilian Mafia Style game. Yes, I know these are two different people, but this is still relevant.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414884¤tpage=11#215
Here are Ver's thoughts on Yamato's first post:
Yamato77 is almost certainly mafia based off of his first post here. I’d vote him in heartbeat. This is the quintessential mafia post. Definitely my #1 find. I didn’t even have to read any other posts by him. Remember point 1 about mafia having a hard time entering the thread? I’ve snagged many many people from intuition judging from only their first post of the game. This is confirmed from a brief glance at his posts in Personality Mafia 2 where he was an unabashed townie making strong posts and not holding back. This post here is completely the opposite. He’s holding back, not caring, not pressing as hard as he should be. Can you feeeeeel the apathy? Does he really care about the town’s best interests?
Do you see the similarity?
Afrocales' post looks very constructed and deliberate. He holds back by soft-accuses Oats instead of pushing him like he should be. The apathy is in plain sight for everyone to see. He is just trying to establish thread presence and likability(w/ his RP) without actually scumhunting in the slightest.
We have scum in our sights, people.
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the post was addressed to me...
its like really weird and nonsensical to ask me to consider your townieness by assuming I myself am scum because there are votes on me.
again I find myself thinking that you have non-townie thoughts
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I'd just like to say that I formed this opinion independent of any case on Afro currently. I'm still not done reading the thread because I'm cataloging my thoughts(for myself) on most of the posts.
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Acro's first post felt way more constructed. Like not even close to being natural cause he was Roleplaying. So I dont think its alignment indicative.
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On August 09 2013 14:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
Acro's first post felt way more constructed. Like not even close to being natural cause he was Roleplaying. So I dont think its alignment indicative.
So you think the fact that it was more constructed makes it non-alignment indicative? Wouldn't scum be more worried about the content of their posts than town? Why would constructed flavor not be alignment indicative?
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On August 09 2013 14:44 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 14:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
Acro's first post felt way more constructed. Like not even close to being natural cause he was Roleplaying. So I dont think its alignment indicative. So you think the fact that it was more constructed makes it non-alignment indicative? Wouldn't scum be more worried about the content of their posts than town? Why would constructed flavor not be alignment indicative?
Because both scum and town have to construct a roleplaying post. Its not natural either way so therefore the fact that its constructed is not alignment indicative. The content on the other hand, may be. I dunno.
Ok so I was looking through johnnywup's filter and I saw this
On August 09 2013 05:57 johnnywup wrote:
i don't have any extra information and its the first thing that came to mind for a 3p wincon in a themed setup like this. robert barath trying to kill targs is like pretty big in lore so it came to mind pretty quickly. I posted the exact same thought in a PM to my housemates and none seemed to think it was scummy.
And its really weird that his defence is 'none of my housemates think it was scummy'. Shows an attitude of caring about his appearance. Not that he was wrong about the 3p or whatever but that his suggestion did not look scummy to other people. Weird mindset. Thoughts?
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EPT
