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+ Show Spoiler [ long post] +On August 08 2013 22:24 Oberyn wrote:
Lords and Ladies of Westeros,
Allow me to present to you all a bottle of our finest Dornish wine as a sign of good faith. I've even prepared a special blend as a gift to the Lord of Highgarden.
Similar to a game of resistance, pulling off a strong day one can spiral the game out of control. If a group of Lords is able to pull off a successful lynch, then they should continue to be elected. Everyone doesn't deserve a turn as Lord. It should go to the most town player, even if they aren't necessarily the most experienced.
I believe that the Lord kp can be distinguished from the mafia kp based on the fact that the Lord kp is sent in instantly. We can use our 1-shot HP check ability by checking a target before and after the shot to confirm that the Lord is not lying. We can also use the 1-shot HP check before and after mafia night hits to try to determine who was targeted by the mafia kp and survived. I suggest that if the HP check is used, the Lord share it with 1-2 of their strongest town reads to try to keep the information in a town circle, rather than making easier for the mafia team to pick off players. I'm assuming they have no idea how many kp it's going to take to eliminate a player, so a Lord who uses their 1-shot ability early in day one is going to be suspicious.
Lords can also coordinate kp to focus on 1-2 targets that we want to flip. If we use it as a double lynch of sorts, it removes the power from the individuals and places it in the town's hands. It is much more useful for us to have scummy players flip, rather than distribute the kp among multiple targets.
With only 25% of the players controlling a vote or kp, we need to find a way to make the non-Lords accountable for their actions. I suggest that each player pm their Lord their preferred lynch target and their preferred kp target. These should then be posted in the thread either at the end of day one or the beginning of day two so we have a better idea where everyone stands. Something we have to watch out for is a mafia bus where a non-Lord pushes a scum buddy without consequence because they have no vote. We have to keep in mind the difference in ones play as a Lord and non-Lord.
As the identities of the individuals of my house have been revealed, I might as well report what I have found so far. Onegu has been the most willing to discuss things via pm so far. We was willing to vote for me before we even spoke, but I have no issue with that. The only thing I found weird was that he suggested we use our HP check right away, which doesn't seem to really benefit town and would provide information to the mafia team about how they should use their kp. jrkirby seemed pleasant enough, but we really didn't take about much of importance. yamato has come off the first in pms from n0. He wanted to be elected Lord on the basis of experience, but he was very reserved in PMs. Any generic questions that I sent his way to get the conversation going he ignored and called them unimportant. I had thought I caught yamato and jrkirby in a scum slip when kirby said he had sent yamato a few pms, while yamato said he didn't receive any, but it appears that jrkirby had been sending them to yamato, rather than yamato77.
Dandel Ion finding himself unable to get elected seems like the most interesting part of the game so far. Was Chrom ever willing to vote for you over himself Dandel? Why is Koshi the one you call scummy, yet sol was the one lying and misrepresenting things? What was he lying about?
I'm disappointed I haven't received a PM from one of my fellow Lords. I'll be getting in touch with you shortly. I promise, I don't bite...most of the time.
~ Lord Oberyn of House Martell ~
I must admit that I slept through the Red Viper's long and tedious presentation.
OOC: I thought it was an original plan when I sent the PM to Oberyn proposing to use the HP checks to verify a lord's use of KP, or its use to check who is being targeted by scum KP. But apparently Oberyn had already put it in the thread and I never read this. As for why I give him credit: it's because when I am in what seemed like a discussion, I consider it a joint effort. What exactly is wrong with giving some credit to people I am talking to when having an idea. Finally, I knew the idea wasn't rocket science, but it still seemed better to keep it a secret if scum didn't come up with it themselves.
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On August 09 2013 09:02 Oberyn wrote:
More on Acrofales:
I first contact him via pm's because I found his conclusion that DI and koshi are both town quite puzzling. When I asked about it futher, he explained that he doesn't think DI truly thinks that sol and koshi are town, he is simply pressuring them. Based on DI's emotional tunnel, I certainly do not draw the same conclusion. He also inadequately explains why koshi is town. He states that DI is overreacting on his views about koshi., but how is this indicative of koshi's alignment? He states that he isn't interested in considering a koshi lynch, but doesn't provide a solid reason. Furthermore, if you earlier thought that DI was faking his read on koshi to pressure him, how is he suddenly overreacting on his read? That's a contradiction.
Initially, he thought that it was a good idea to use the health check simply to figure out the hp system. This is incredibly anti-town. When I attack him for his plan, he quickly drops it.
Acro's house is a slew of inactives, but he has shown little interest in dealing with them.
In the thread, Acro has said a lot of nothing. He is using the role playing nonsense to cover up the fact that he isn't sharing many strong reads. I see little reason why he shouldn't be considered for a lynch today.
What am I supposed to do with kush and Sharrant other than send them ravens. I have no read on them. If Sharrant doesn't start speaking in public we will eventually kill him. If Kush doesn't start actually looking for Blackfyres, rather than interjecting useless nonsense (both in public and in the privacy of Highgarden), we will probably kill him too. What ELSE am I supposed to do? I'm not their babysitter.
Regarding DI and Koshi, between what I said in public and the following missive, I fail to see what is inadequate. If you feel Koshi is scum, the onus of proof seems to be on you.
Missive to Oberyn:
The reasons for koshi being true to the realm are somewhat tenuous, but I do not see much reason to pursue him today: I think DI is overreacting, which removes any reason for me to suspect koshi outright. The rest is mainly just his tone of voice and the incessant bickering he is involved in. Suffice to say, if he is indeed a rebel, I believe he will show his true colors soon enough.
In short, your suspicions on me are complete bollocks.
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I see no reason to keep that conversation in pms.
iamp has stated that he refuses to lynch any lord this cycle and wants a lurker lynch this cycle. I disagree that Lords should be given immunity and would like to see him comment on Acro, rayn, and his 1-2 preferred lynch candidates.
While taking a strong stance against inactives is nice and all, I feel he has contributed just as much as several of the people on his lurker list.
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On August 09 2013 10:30 Oberyn wrote:
I see no reason to keep that conversation in pms.
iamp has stated that he refuses to lynch any lord this cycle and wants a lurker lynch this cycle. I disagree that Lords should be given immunity and would like to see him comment on Acro, rayn, and his 1-2 preferred lynch candidates.
While taking a strong stance against inactives is nice and all, I feel he has contributed just as much as several of the people on his lurker list.
thats not what i said at all
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This message is for everyone. We are simply not lynching ryan or acro under any circumstances this cycle and i want your help to find the true scum in this game. Regardless of what you think of the two their activity alone makes them not the best chance to lynch scum. We all know that scum tend b e less active than town and like to lurk in the shadows. This biting each others heads off serves no purpose but to create an atmospher not productive to town because it allows to lurkers to continue to lurk and the scum along with them.
I want to know have nonposters in your house been active in pms. Gumshoe has contacted me stating that he will be on later and as of yet still hasnt posted. I havent heard from grack to last night. I want to know if any non posters are in contact with you and if you have suspicion of them from their n0 commitment and recent pms. regardless if they are pm'ing you i want to know why they arent posting in the thread. IE ( Sharrant is in contact with you but isnt posting in the thread acro)
these are the pieces of shit that come to mind
FirmTofu- Decided to complain about activity and did nothing else
Gumshoe- Had a good feeling from pms that he was town but is mia
Grack- Mia since last night
Kush- Non contributer who i want kp directed at because he can contribute as town and isnt
nacho- non poster and i havent heard anything about his pms
Sharrant- as stated before
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sharrant why aren't you posting in the thread but are active in pm's?
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On August 09 2013 10:32 iamperfection wrote:
This message is for everyone. We are simply not lynching ryan or acro under any circumstances this cycle and i want your help to find the true scum in this game. Regardless of what you think of the two their activity alone makes them not the best chance to lynch scum. We all know that scum tend b e less active than town and like to lurk in the shadows. This biting each others heads off serves no purpose but to create an atmospher not productive to town because it allows to lurkers to continue to lurk and the scum along with them.
I want to know have nonposters in your house been active in pms. Gumshoe has contacted me stating that he will be on later and as of yet still hasnt posted. I havent heard from grack to last night. I want to know if any non posters are in contact with you and if you have suspicion of them from their n0 commitment and recent pms. regardless if they are pm'ing you i want to know why they arent posting in the thread. IE ( Sharrant is in contact with you but isnt posting in the thread acro)
these are the pieces of shit that come to mind
FirmTofu- Decided to complain about activity and did nothing else
Gumshoe- Had a good feeling from pms that he was town but is mia
Grack- Mia since last night
Kush- Non contributer who i want kp directed at because he can contribute as town and isnt
nacho- non poster and i havent heard anything about his pms
Sharrant- as stated before
Piece of Shit reporting for duty!
I will read through the thread and and get some reads sometime tonight. it might not be for hours, not making any promises. You may be around but I don't think you have done anything, unless you have been particularly busy in PM's. I believe that your involvement in pm's dropped quite significantly as well after you got elected, at least from my perspective and xata seemed less sure of you late in the night as well. Do some scumhunting or at least build a case on me, calling out lurkers is useless and that's the most I've seen from you.
@All lords, I would like to know how frequently Iamperfection has been PMing you and any impressions you have gotten from those PM's
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On August 09 2013 06:07 johnnywup wrote:
you're the one with 3 votes on you. if we have thoughts that are mutually exclusive to alignment, it would like I was more townie, no? I do not think the thoughts are mutually exclusive to alignment, by the way.
And what thoughts are you talking about exactly? Just the speculating on a possible 3p wincon? Because if that's it then you're not saying anything.
what in gods name is this? because I had votes on me, I should be thinking I'm scum, and therefore your thought was more townie?
Acro confirmed that you were thinking about the 3p wincon thing pre-game, so that's whatevs...but what are you getting at with the above quote?
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On August 09 2013 10:58 Grackaroni wrote:
@All lords, I would like to know how frequently Iamperfection has been PMing you and any impressions you have gotten from those PM's
iamp has done very little in PMs with me, simply asking an irrelevant question about the Lord voting.
He ignored a pm I sent him asking his opinion about the other Lords. When I asked a second time, he said that he doesn't have a scum read on any Lords.
He said he doesn't have a mafia read apart from the lurkers.
Kush is apparently his prefered target, but he doesn't really express this in the thread, other than calling for a night hit.
Him and Acro are definitely the two Lords that look the worst at this point.
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On August 09 2013 11:07 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 10:58 Grackaroni wrote:
@All lords, I would like to know how frequently Iamperfection has been PMing you and any impressions you have gotten from those PM's iamp has done very little in PMs with me, simply asking an irrelevant question about the Lord voting. He ignored a pm I sent him asking his opinion about the other Lords. When I asked a second time, he said that he doesn't have a scum read on any Lords. He said he doesn't have a mafia read apart from the lurkers. Kush is apparently his prefered target, but he doesn't really express this in the thread, other than calling for a night hit. Him and Acro are definitely the two Lords that look the worst at this point.
what question did i ignore?
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On August 09 2013 06:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah Solstice´s logic is really fishy.
I want more than this Rayn, why is it fishy? What specifically bothers you?
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also i find it absolutely hilarious that people think lurkers cant be scum they almost always are.
herp derp iamp is scum because he wants to kill scum
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On August 09 2013 06:53 Clarity_nl wrote:
Why is this conversation happening in the thread as opposed to pms?
#Trafficcop
Clarity my boy. I see no reason not to assume that you think your play so far has been pro-town. With that said, what are you doing here? If your thread directing is useful and pro-town, what is with the self-conscious acknowledgement of the behavior? If it's protown then you should just be carrying on. It seems like you have some inherent guilt here.
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On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote:
As scum, Dandel knows he will be caught. He will therefore have no qualms about using our house abilities (the KP, the one-shot HP check) in a way that is incriminating as he is going to be lynched or vigged anyway. The hypothetical I layed out was that he'd blow our HP check and shoot the towniest dude in the thread. These are things that would probably be traced back to him in the future, but again it's not gonna matter.
On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote:
Chrom even if scum, would probably not raise the middle finger and KP who he wanted and blow our check. More likely, he would try to maneuver our KP to someone he wanted with discussion and leave the check alone.
Either way, with a scum Dandel or a scum Chrom, they would use the house kp to shoot a town and there is not much you can do about it. It seems to me that the logical decision is to elect the player that is more likely town to avoid this scenario.
If Dandel is going to clearly get caught as a scum Lord wouldn't electing him be a good idea? Free scum read? Furthermore, are you saying that preserving the 1-shot hp check is important enough to elect a null player over a town player? I'm not convinced by your reasoning.
On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote:
Dandel also lied about me not trying to figure out people's alignments within our house.
So are you saying that Dandel is lying and misrepresenting you, but you think he is town? Why call him a liar, suggesting an anti-town motivation, yet support him at the same time?
Also, what specifically in PMs led you to a town read?
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On August 09 2013 10:58 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 10:32 iamperfection wrote:
This message is for everyone. We are simply not lynching ryan or acro under any circumstances this cycle and i want your help to find the true scum in this game. Regardless of what you think of the two their activity alone makes them not the best chance to lynch scum. We all know that scum tend b e less active than town and like to lurk in the shadows. This biting each others heads off serves no purpose but to create an atmospher not productive to town because it allows to lurkers to continue to lurk and the scum along with them.
I want to know have nonposters in your house been active in pms. Gumshoe has contacted me stating that he will be on later and as of yet still hasnt posted. I havent heard from grack to last night. I want to know if any non posters are in contact with you and if you have suspicion of them from their n0 commitment and recent pms. regardless if they are pm'ing you i want to know why they arent posting in the thread. IE ( Sharrant is in contact with you but isnt posting in the thread acro)
these are the pieces of shit that come to mind
FirmTofu- Decided to complain about activity and did nothing else
Gumshoe- Had a good feeling from pms that he was town but is mia
Grack- Mia since last night
Kush- Non contributer who i want kp directed at because he can contribute as town and isnt
nacho- non poster and i havent heard anything about his pms
Sharrant- as stated before Piece of Shit reporting for duty! I will read through the thread and and get some reads sometime tonight. it might not be for hours, not making any promises. You may be around but I don't think you have done anything, unless you have been particularly busy in PM's. I believe that your involvement in pm's dropped quite significantly as well after you got elected, at least from my perspective and xata seemed less sure of you late in the night as well. Do some scumhunting or at least build a case on me, calling out lurkers is useless and that's the most I've seen from you. @All lords, I would like to know how frequently Iamperfection has been PMing you and any impressions you have gotten from those PM's
My PMs with him were mainly about Xatalos, who he stood up for. This was enough for me to drop him as a primary suspect. We then talked a bit about DI, but seeing as we agree, he is probably loyal to the realm, that discussion petered out quickly.
We just now had a discussion about rayn, sharrant and gumshoe.
He's not raising any red flags. Would not lynch.
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So why shouldnt lords be a target for lynch today? we should be lynching scum no matter who they are.
@Firm you caught up? Respond to the case against you.
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On August 09 2013 08:06 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote:
Right so it went down like this. I asked to be lord. Two of our guys are fairly new, and I was concerned with their ability to use the spot effectively. This left me and Dandel. He and I got into it pretty good arguing about which of us is better suited for the role, and he somehow extracted a scumread on me from it because he thinks he is good and I said I'm better (holy shit I'm misrepresenting his ability!). He also claimed I was clinging to some weak reasons for wanting to be lord. I felt the same about his reasons. We were at an impasse, with neither wanting to vote for the other. We therefore both settled on Chrom. Both of us seemed to agree that Koshi was looking shady in PMs, so I guess it was the most natural outcome all things considered.
My discussions with Dandel had me leaning town on him. Like I've been telling both Chrom and Dandel though, I really am not comfortable with Dandel as a lord until I am completely sure he is town. As scum, Dandel knows he will be caught. He will therefore have no qualms about using our house abilities (the KP, the one-shot HP check) in a way that is incriminating as he is going to be lynched or vigged anyway. The hypothetical I layed out was that he'd blow our HP check and shoot the towniest dude in the thread. These are things that would probably be traced back to him in the future, but again it's not gonna matter. Just a total waste of our first cycle abilities. At the time, I had to assume that house KP could even be strong enough to kill someone. So thats another strike. A typical scum player is not trying to be obv scum and therefore is unlikely to be so cavalier with these. The risk of scum Dandel trolling his way to the lynch block and me being wrong with my early town read made him unelectable to me for the first cycle.
I pretty much thought that I was better suited. Koshi early on said he was gonna vote for me, but then retracted when he started his own campaign. Chrom preferred Dandel over me because Dandel has easy scum meta. This created an awkward situation. With Dandel refusing to vote me and vice versa, we went to Chrom.
Why are you trying to spin this? You literally told me that you were "reasonably sure" that he was town. That's a STRONG read. Now you're trying to say that you were "leaning town", a weak read? As I've already said, catching scum is a far higher priority than the nightactions. EVEN if you thought that the vigi shot was a 100% hp shot, 1 town for 1 scum is always a good trade. That's assuming that he is scum, which you thought was very unlikely (or maybe not anymore, I guess). Look at this from both sides: Town Sol might see this danger in letting DI be lord, and resist DI in favor of himself, who he sees as the stronger town player. Even with a strong town read on DI, he would prefer himself. HOWEVER, once it became clear that Sol wasn't going to be lord, he would switch to his strong town read, Dandel. Town Sol would never switch to a null read because of the chance of wasting our nightactions, which aren't even that powerful. Scum Sol wants himself to be lord above DI, the strongest town player, at all costs. He tries to invent some reasons why, so he starts by brushing him off with "he's not serious enough". Then, when DI looks like a better candidate for lord, he comes up with the scenario where DI blows the nightactions. When he realizes that he can't become lord, he consolidates onto the weaker town player (myself). AFTER he does this, he slips that he has a strong town read on DI, without realizing that this is inconsistent with his actions. Which one of these sounds more likely? Do you really think that Sol values these nightactions THIS highly?
There is no spin, my lord. My position has been clear and consistent. It's obvious you disagree with it, but I don't see how it makes me scum. Do you believe that I believe that Dandel will out himself as scum if he is scum for any given game without any outside help? If so then my argument holds water.
Also, reasonably sure is not totally sure. I said I would consider Dandel for lord once I am totally sure he is town. I saw no reason to do so while there was still any doubt, for the reasons I mentioned.
Also, can you answer this?
Also, ask yourself if I was scum...would I be saying Dandel is town in my quest to seize our lordship? Why the hell wouldn't I just insinuate he is scum and discredit him that way. I could probably have recaptured Koshi this way, and then maybe Chrom for consolidation. This also puts me in basically zero danger. I could easily back off this no problem at a later time.
from my previous longer post.
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On August 09 2013 11:11 iamperfection wrote:
also i find it absolutely hilarious that people think lurkers cant be scum they almost always are.
herp derp iamp is scum because he wants to kill scum
There definitely could be scum in lurkers but it's scummy to just not bother looking at active players because you have decided the entire scum team is lurking.
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On August 09 2013 11:09 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 11:07 Oberyn wrote:On August 09 2013 10:58 Grackaroni wrote:
@All lords, I would like to know how frequently Iamperfection has been PMing you and any impressions you have gotten from those PM's iamp has done very little in PMs with me, simply asking an irrelevant question about the Lord voting. He ignored a pm I sent him asking his opinion about the other Lords. When I asked a second time, he said that he doesn't have a scum read on any Lords. He said he doesn't have a mafia read apart from the lurkers. Kush is apparently his prefered target, but he doesn't really express this in the thread, other than calling for a night hit. Him and Acro are definitely the two Lords that look the worst at this point. what question did i ignore?
The PM titled "Hey".
On August 09 2013 11:11 iamperfection wrote:
also i find it absolutely hilarious that people think lurkers cant be scum they almost always are.
herp derp iamp is scum because he wants to kill scum
Who is this post directed at?
If you list 6-7 inactives of course there is likely a couple of scum in there. Excuse me if I'm unimpressed until you point out which ones are actually mafia.
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EPT
