EPTGoT Mafia: Lords and Liars - Page 48
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On August 09 2013 07:57 Vivax wrote: Why not ask me about s0lstice?I assume he is one of your scumspects? Because those people i mentioned are more scummy. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On August 09 2013 08:02 jrkirby wrote: Yeah, this interplay between rayn and Acro is baffling me too. I really don't understand what's going on, something about rayn not wanting acro to use his HP check? Acro said they are maybe wanting to use their houses HP check. I told him that´s anti-town for now (i also told the reasons in thread later). Acro calls me scum because i wanted to know why they wanted to use their HP check on D1. Acro said i am twisting his words (he especially said they wanted to use the HP-check now) which i am not. I asked about this in PM´s and his answer was basically "i am not talking to you". | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote: Right so it went down like this. I asked to be lord. Two of our guys are fairly new, and I was concerned with their ability to use the spot effectively. This left me and Dandel. He and I got into it pretty good arguing about which of us is better suited for the role, and he somehow extracted a scumread on me from it because he thinks he is good and I said I'm better (holy shit I'm misrepresenting his ability!). He also claimed I was clinging to some weak reasons for wanting to be lord. I felt the same about his reasons. We were at an impasse, with neither wanting to vote for the other. We therefore both settled on Chrom. Both of us seemed to agree that Koshi was looking shady in PMs, so I guess it was the most natural outcome all things considered. My discussions with Dandel had me leaning town on him. Like I've been telling both Chrom and Dandel though, I really am not comfortable with Dandel as a lord until I am completely sure he is town. As scum, Dandel knows he will be caught. He will therefore have no qualms about using our house abilities (the KP, the one-shot HP check) in a way that is incriminating as he is going to be lynched or vigged anyway. The hypothetical I layed out was that he'd blow our HP check and shoot the towniest dude in the thread. These are things that would probably be traced back to him in the future, but again it's not gonna matter. Just a total waste of our first cycle abilities. At the time, I had to assume that house KP could even be strong enough to kill someone. So thats another strike. A typical scum player is not trying to be obv scum and therefore is unlikely to be so cavalier with these. The risk of scum Dandel trolling his way to the lynch block and me being wrong with my early town read made him unelectable to me for the first cycle. I pretty much thought that I was better suited. Koshi early on said he was gonna vote for me, but then retracted when he started his own campaign. Chrom preferred Dandel over me because Dandel has easy scum meta. This created an awkward situation. With Dandel refusing to vote me and vice versa, we went to Chrom. Why are you trying to spin this? You literally told me that you were "reasonably sure" that he was town. That's a STRONG read. Now you're trying to say that you were "leaning town", a weak read? As I've already said, catching scum is a far higher priority than the nightactions. EVEN if you thought that the vigi shot was a 100% hp shot, 1 town for 1 scum is always a good trade. That's assuming that he is scum, which you thought was very unlikely (or maybe not anymore, I guess). Look at this from both sides: Town Sol might see this danger in letting DI be lord, and resist DI in favor of himself, who he sees as the stronger town player. Even with a strong town read on DI, he would prefer himself. HOWEVER, once it became clear that Sol wasn't going to be lord, he would switch to his strong town read, Dandel. Town Sol would never switch to a null read because of the chance of wasting our nightactions, which aren't even that powerful. Scum Sol wants himself to be lord above DI, the strongest town player, at all costs. He tries to invent some reasons why, so he starts by brushing him off with "he's not serious enough". Then, when DI looks like a better candidate for lord, he comes up with the scenario where DI blows the nightactions. When he realizes that he can't become lord, he consolidates onto the weaker town player (myself). AFTER he does this, he slips that he has a strong town read on DI, without realizing that this is inconsistent with his actions. Which one of these sounds more likely? Do you really think that Sol values these nightactions THIS highly? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18320 Posts
On August 09 2013 07:57 johnnywup wrote: Acro, I'm confused. What are you talking about? Keep in mind the rest of the thread can't read the PMs between you two. Okay, here's what happened. Not being able to cite from my Maester's records is really complicating this matter. I told rayn that we were having a discussion in our house about the use of our healing magic and asked him what he thought was the best use of it. In particular, my original question mentioned that it seemed risky to use, as had been emphasized to me by both the Red Viper and Sharrant: if the information falls into the pretenders' hands, they will be able to better use their armies, whereas the advantage for coordinating our own swords seems secondary to this. Rayn answered with a similar observation, and seemed suspicious of WHY I thought it might be advantageous to use now. I answered that I initially had thought that it could be useful to coordinate our loyalist swords in order to not overcommit on any particular Blackfyre suspect. But I emphasized that the risk was greater than the reward. I also made an allusion to the plan concocted by Sharrant, the Red Viper and myself to perhaps catch Blackfyre scum using our magics, but this plan relies somewhat on secrecy and I am not divulging its workings in public. This post triggered the initial outburst in the thread, where rayn basically called me out for being a Blackfyre myself based on my supposed will to use the magic immediately. After I recognized what he might have misinterpreted in my original answer, I offered him an olive branch, pointing out what was probably the root of the misunderstanding and thinking I might have overreacted with his "misrepresenting my words". His response to that was that he would back down from his accusations if I told him about the plan. I don't take well to being blackmailed, and I certainly don't think blackmailing someone is a loyalist attitude. I am now convinced he is a Blackfyre infiltrant who is desperate for this information that might put a stop to their dastardly plans. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
As i expressed earlier, i was not gonna go with that unless i have better information about it, which you were unwilling to share. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
His response to that was that he would back down from his accusations if I told him about the plan. I don't take well to being blackmailed, and I certainly don't think blackmailing someone is a loyalist attitude. I am now convinced he is a Blackfyre infiltrant who is desperate for this information that might put a stop to their dastardly plans. BULLSHIT! I said i was willing to RE-EVALUATE, NOT BACK DOWN! Now who is twisting words and why? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
Let´s have the PM discussion we did in thread ok? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18320 Posts
"I am willing to reconsider my stance if you are willing to tell me the plan." How am I misrepresenting anything. That means: tell me the plan and I'll leave you alone. | ||
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
I'm still suspicious of sol, but for now I'm going to: ##Unvote ##Vote Acrofales | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18320 Posts
On August 09 2013 08:20 Oberyn wrote: I'm not really sure what you're rambling about Acro. You essentially took my plan from my first post, decided that you and me worked on it together (I have no idea where that comes from) and now won't share it for whatever reason. I'm still suspicious of sol, but for now I'm going to: ##Unvote ##Vote Acrofales What the hell are you smoking? Here is the first thing you sent to me about using magic: Onegu told me that he wants to use the hp check on day one, which would give the mafia an idea of how many kp it takes to eliminate a player with their night hits. I've had a town read on him otherwise. Do you think there is any benefit to wanting to use it early as town? Here is your second missive, after my reply: You say that it is important for us to know to coordinate our shots, but then want to use it on your own hosue? Does that suggest that you want the Lords to fire in your house? Wouldn't it make more sense to use it on the house you want to fire into? And MY REPLY to that is the plan. After this we have not communicated about using the magic, and were discussing Yamato. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On August 09 2013 07:55 Vivax wrote: Yeah you're right actually, he went from casual explanations to more sofisticated ones once under pressure, that's quite scummy, but what feel do you gain from his in-thread activity, for example?Do you think that it's scummy too? I don't think you have only to consider the content of their PMs to get a read on Koshi and Dandel. Do you have at least a tentative read on the two? in thread activity: not noticeably scummy, no. I want to give him time to do some actual scumhunting and then re-evaluate my read. koshi and dandel: I think dandel is probably town, in my experience when he's scum he doesn't actually try to persuade people he is town (or play the game at all, really). Koshi I don't have much to read since his entire filter is yelling at DI and oatsmaster. I don't think you can call him scum for being frustrated with DI or with oats. But it would be much better if he would post about something other than those fights. I wouldn't say he's scum for evading, because he's been responding to things in the thread etc; but he needs to move past the DI thing and step it up. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On August 09 2013 08:19 Acrofales wrote: Screw paraphrasing. You LITERALLY said: "I am willing to reconsider my stance if you are willing to tell me the plan." How am I misrepresenting anything. That means: tell me the plan and I'll leave you alone. reconsider =/= back off. wtf? | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
On August 09 2013 08:19 Acrofales wrote: Screw paraphrasing. You LITERALLY said: "I am willing to reconsider my stance if you are willing to tell me the plan." How am I misrepresenting anything. That means: tell me the plan and I'll leave you alone. Did you expect him to reconsider without knowing the plan? What's your problem with this post? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
##Vote: Acrofales | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
On August 09 2013 08:24 Acrofales wrote: What the hell are you smoking? Here is the first thing you sent to me about using magic: Here is your second missive, after my reply: And MY REPLY to that is the plan. After this we have not communicated about using the magic, and were discussing Yamato. Exactly. Nothing there points to us working together on come to your plan. It gives me the creeps that you decide to bring up three different times that I helped formulate the idea as if we're working behind the scenes to come up with something incredibly pro-town. I feel like you're buddying up to me in that sense. Furthermore, the plan isn't so great that you have to keep it a secret from rayn. You're overstating your contribution right now. On August 09 2013 06:44 Acrofales wrote: Are you upset because I am unwilling to disclose with you the way the Red Viper, Sharrant and myself came up with a way of potentially foiling a Blackfyre plot by using our life check magic? On August 09 2013 08:11 Acrofales wrote: I also made an allusion to the plan concocted by Sharrant, the Red Viper and myself On August 09 2013 06:44 Acrofales wrote: Are you upset because I am unwilling to disclose with you the way the Red Viper, Sharrant and myself came up with. | ||
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
I first contact him via pm's because I found his conclusion that DI and koshi are both town quite puzzling. When I asked about it futher, he explained that he doesn't think DI truly thinks that sol and koshi are town, he is simply pressuring them. Based on DI's emotional tunnel, I certainly do not draw the same conclusion. He also inadequately explains why koshi is town. He states that DI is overreacting on his views about koshi., but how is this indicative of koshi's alignment? He states that he isn't interested in considering a koshi lynch, but doesn't provide a solid reason. Furthermore, if you earlier thought that DI was faking his read on koshi to pressure him, how is he suddenly overreacting on his read? That's a contradiction. Initially, he thought that it was a good idea to use the health check simply to figure out the hp system. This is incredibly anti-town. When I attack him for his plan, he quickly drops it. Acro's house is a slew of inactives, but he has shown little interest in dealing with them. In the thread, Acro has said a lot of nothing. He is using the role playing nonsense to cover up the fact that he isn't sharing many strong reads. I see little reason why he shouldn't be considered for a lynch today. | ||
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Oberyn
United Kingdom508 Posts
On August 09 2013 09:02 Oberyn wrote: More on Acrofales: I first contact him via pm's because I found his conclusion that DI and koshi are both town quite puzzling. When I asked about it futher, he explained that he doesn't think DI truly thinks that sol and koshi are scum, he is simply pressuring them. Based on DI's emotional tunnel, I certainly do not draw the same conclusion. He also inadequately explains why koshi is town. He states that DI is overreacting on his views about koshi., but how is this indicative of koshi's alignment? He states that he isn't interested in considering a koshi lynch, but doesn't provide a solid reason. Furthermore, if you earlier thought that DI was faking his read on koshi to pressure him, how is he suddenly overreacting on his read? That's a contradiction. Initially, he thought that it was a good idea to use the health check simply to figure out the hp system. This is incredibly anti-town. When I attack him for his plan, he quickly drops it. Acro's house is a slew of inactives, but he has shown little interest in dealing with them. In the thread, Acro has said a lot of nothing. He is using the role playing nonsense to cover up the fact that he isn't sharing many strong reads. I see little reason why he shouldn't be considered for a lynch today. EBWOP | ||
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