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Hmm okay, we can discuss it tomorrow.
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We should lynch Risen.
At the start of D2, right after iamp posted his reads list (with Vivax as scum), I PMed Risen to ask him if his scumreads had changed from yesterday. He said that they had, and that Vivax was now his "#1 scumread".
When asked for explanation, his sole reasoning was "he's been giving townreads too easily", which is a fair reason, if a bit weak. I didn't really see it in his filter, however, so I pressed for examples.
The only example he was able to provide was his "townread" on FT.
Here's what Risen showed me:
On August 10 2013 09:42 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 08:49 johnnywup wrote:thats not what i said  and i never said its a meaningful contribution but making a list and not knowing which house two people are in doesn't make me look mafia i'm not saying i'm contributing from that post but someone asked for a list and I wanted it put into a post for convenience sake so i made it. it's just something i thought would be nice and people could refer back to if they needed. i don't understand how that makes me look like mafia? Go more in depth about your FT scumread please, you give me the impression you aren't reading the thread properly and only throw in some half-assed scumread to calm down the waters. If you're defensive, town and know it, you could try to change that and actually show some interest into finding out who's scum.
Here's what Vivax also said about FT:
On August 10 2013 09:55 Vivax wrote:He's unusually inactive and I still have some unanswered questions. Seems like another solid lynch, unless he shows up with some bombastic posts before deadline.
There is absolutely, NO town way to misinterpret this. The first post is clearly NOT a townread. The second post, which Risen never brought up, shows that Vivax 100% did NOT have a townread on FT.
So why would town Risen EVER think that Vivax had a townread on FT? He can't possibly. The only explanation is that he's going through Vivax's filter and nitpicking posts that he can frame as scummy instead of actually attempting to divine Vivax's alignment.
So I stated I disagreed, and brought up Onegu and Acro as alternatives, two people who I thought looked worst from how the lynch went down. For reference:
On August 13 2013 01:45 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 22:35 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 12 2013 22:27 Acrofales wrote:On August 12 2013 22:21 Clarity_nl wrote:
Acro why do you say one of the two has to be scum in reply to me, and then you call it "pointless wifom" in the following post? I never say that. I suggest you reread the notules of what I said. In my reply to you I am explaining how I think you're wrong about Blackfyres having balls of steel and go through the possibilities. I never reached any conclusions, because we actually need some confirmation about which situation we're in: SnB or Vivax can still be the cause for Xatalos getting locked in, and there's a pretty good chance they are Blackfyre scum (one, or both). Lord knows what their profession is, but it's possible one is a jailer. What I absolutely DON'T think is that we can just conclude Oberyn and Onegu are loyal from this, because it seems farfetched that IF Xatalos was locked in by a Blackfyre and they did not know about the plot, I believe they 100% WOULD have claimed. I disagree. Me and xata came to the conclusion that unless the jailkeeper claim came from someone already thought to be town, we would end up lynching him. The way oberyn refused to give the 2nd name made it plausible for it to be a fakeclaim. I'd take the gamble as scum. Anyway, if we go with your conclusion, then our lynchpool tomorrow would look like this: snb vivax onegu oberyn + whoever didn't post between the fakeclaim and the confession of said fakeclaim (surely its more people than just snb and vivax?) That said, vivax spent a lot of time with me in pms n1 trying to convince me yamato is scum, so I think he's town. Oberyn, if scum, has played an amazing scumgame. Look at my interaction with him d1. So I think he's town That leaves onegu and snb, and I'm okay with that at this point, even if we came to the list with a conclusion I disagree with. Refreshing before I post: jkirby and koshi didn't post in that window according to onegu. I don't really like a koshi lynch but jkirby is definitely and option too. I think it's unlikely that scum wouldn't claim. Oberyn not revealing both names made perfect sense from the watcher standpoint, and there would be ways to make a JK claim believable, especially with the free day that lynching yamato gives. Which means that there's probably scum in that group, and it's probably Onegu. Since no one's brought it up yet, let's talk about what Onegu did around the FT lynch: Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 12:25 Onegu wrote:
Ok caught up, my thoughts on Firmtofu. Out of my seven games I have played 5 with tofu and he was town in all of them, never once has he asked about others thoughts before giving his own that was the first thing, also he is normally more active than this. His responses to cases against him arent that strong either.
Second reign case on me, SnB asked me my thoughts on S0L and FT and there wasnt much to go on so I said we need more info, I wasnt just posting random shit. Also again I am disabled and have a disabled child so sometimes I will be very active as I have nothing else to do, but others I will be at a hospital or on medicine and not post much.
Koshi looks scummy to me also, I will filter dive him now and bring up the points I found.
Also I was the main reason oberyn was elected, I thought he was Prome smurf so I straight up told him I would vote him, I also told jrkirby this. I later found out he isnt prome, but I had many discussions with him before voteing and found him the best choice.
Do we know when a house has used thier HP check? Or if I become lord can I find out if we still have it. Thinking about this maybe we shouldnt elect the same lord because if they are scum and use the HP check and we continue to elect them lord we will never find out if they used it or still have it.
I also like the split lord kp on 2 targets. Onegu comes back to the thread and softly encourages the FT wagon without actually calling FT scum. He's not associating himself by supporting the mislynch, but he doesn't want to actually derail it. Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 13:06 Onegu wrote:On August 08 2013 19:47 Koshi wrote:
@ Oats. Tell me why you have townreads on your house. Don't use names but you can at least tell us WHY they are town. It's impossible to actually know if somebody is town in your house. At this point I think Oats his house is filled with scum only. Why write this? What makes them all scum and why call out oats about haveing town reads on people. On August 08 2013 20:05 Koshi wrote:On August 08 2013 19:59 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 08 2013 19:54 Koshi wrote:On August 08 2013 19:47 Oatsmaster wrote:Oats, we just played in Titanic and you come in this thread and say that you know that everybody in your house is town and that you will protect their identity? You must be really REALLY confident in this game.
You prevent us to find scum in your house and you prevent your house by talking about how you got elected or prevent them from giving away information about you. Um what? My reads were mostly right in Titanic. 1 wrong read. whatever. I only prevent you from knowing who I can contact through pms. All this other stuff is really weird. I didnt get elected. I meant how the person in your house got elected. Your first scumread in Titanic was on a town that you pushed till the end. Then you found a "townslip" on an actual scum that we suspected and managed to get that scum enough towncred so he didn't get lynched day 1. Now in this game you say that your entire house is town and that we should just trust you on it. That's hilarious. I think sharing townreads is kinda useless. It makes it easier for scum to choose a nk and giving townreads is easy for scum. Treat it like a regular game with pms, scumhunt in the thread, scumhunt in pms or share reads with people you're fairly sure are town, only bring up pms in the thread if you got a really strong scumread on someone because of it. Ok I agree. But at this point we are not doing normal scumhunting. Everybody is discussing the houses while we are not allowed to mention the members in the houses. At this point we can't do any scumhunting at all. So you agree we shouldnt share townreads, but you just got finished calling out oats for not giving his townreads? On August 08 2013 23:17 Koshi wrote:
-Dandel told me that s0lstice was either a retard or a scum in 1 message
-I replied to him that s0lstice was nice to me and that there was no reason to believe he was either retarded or scum. I also said that s0llstice actually was a good leader and unlike DI that just wanted to kill Kush "because"
-Which DI answered to "it's not because, it's win/win (It clearly was not a joke like he claims now.)
DI told me that s0lstice was scum again 2 hours later:
I asked him why and I told him I found s0lstice genuine and without extra agenda.
DI replied to me his read on s0ltice and only after that I ran for lord.
______________________________________
1) says the best scumhunter should be lord (Which I thought was s0lstice, I only knew DI from NWM)
1.5) does not vote the best scumhunter, votes the last place he himself stated to share with chrom (this was after all pms)
2) says he and chrom are in similar positions/places (imo yes)
2.5) does not even think about electing chrom but wants himself only because "it's me lol", tries to threaten a no-lord voting because "i (=dandel) cant convince sol to vote with me anyways lololol", so he's basically tried to blackmail me into voting for him (I voted chrom in the end. I just wanted to run because out of 2 equals I should pick myself because chrom might be scum (even though Chrom looks just as good as s0lstice)
3) says he doesn't want to be lord (At first)
3.5) suddenly wants to be lord, utterly unable to explain why (I fucking explained it 10 times)
4) says he won't vote for me because I'm tunneling and won't vote solstice because "there is suspicion on him" (aforementioned oneliner without explanation lol)
4.5) doesn't really fit the numbering thing but this is basically a paradoxon because he's saying he won't listen to me, but won't vote the guy he wanted lord half the phase because I'm suspicious of him.
4.6) If he wasn't listening to me, he wouldn't have listened period, but he's ran straight out of excuses and can't find any.
4.6.1) he probably thought I wouldn't notice because I was tunneling sol apparantly
4.7) at that point i wasn't even tunneling sol, but he didn't care to check that.
Point 4 and below is indeed a bit bad play on my part. But in my gut I just knew that those 2 weren't going to work together and that I should be able to run for Lord.
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Maybe I took n0 not serious enough for DI. But I had enough bullshit from this guy, he is lying 24/7 and any normal person would descredit him for being Lord after the PMs he sent me. The only question I have is why not just say ok chrome can be lord, why put your name up after saying you didnt want to be lord? On August 10 2013 01:50 Koshi wrote:On August 10 2013 01:31 s0Lstice wrote: Koshi still looks scummy to me. I just got done talking him out of his big dead red scum read in PMs (Oats) with like 2 lines of text. There's times like this where he really just lacks conviction that makes me think his reads are a pretext. Everybody thinks Oats is town and tells me that with 2 lines of text. I gave up on Oats. If they havent given you a good reason why give up on it? That just doesnt make much sense. On August 10 2013 06:21 Koshi wrote:On August 10 2013 06:09 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 05:45 Grackaroni wrote:On August 10 2013 05:38 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 05:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I read Crackaroni as the exact opposite compared to Chromatically, based on that post.
Why is that a non-contribution Chrom? How is it a contribution? There's no scumhunting and doesn't help town at all. I would expect town to post the part on iamp and try to do some pressure, or jump on something in the thread, but listing your house and giving townreads is useless. I gave what I thought about Iamp in the post and I pressured him in pm's as well, and how many first posts involve scumhunting? What about Koshi makes him your 2nd scum read? Koshi has been posting, but doesn't seem like he cares about the lynch at all. He's halfheartedly pushed Oats, and that's it. Kirby and Onegu have similar problems, posting without caring about the lynch and not contributing. I have pushed Oats 3 times in this thread, and every time I get laughed at and everybody telling me that Oats is town because of meta. How can you say I half-heartedly pushed Oats? On top of that I can't lynch anybody and my Lord thinks I am scum. Obviously I am not as passionate about the lynch as I normally am. Who are you going to vote on? Because I would love you to go outside our House because I am not scum and s0lstice hasn't done anything scummy except vote for you... You are the only Lord that is actually trying to lynch his own servants. Kill FT, Oats, Kirby or johnnywup. They are all "active" but completely useless, and with Oats or johnnywup you have a good chance to hit scum. But you didnt push him that hard, and give me more reasons than they are completely useless. Then he goes through Koshi's filter and quotes every post he can paint as scummy, even though most of these aren't actually scummy at all. Keep in mind that Koshi was a pretty easy target at the time. There were quite a few reasons that had already been stated by others to want to lynch Koshi, so why put in so much effort to make an original "contribution" that's far weaker than the other points previously stated? Onegu makes NO effort at all to push his Koshi case, despite Koshi being his top scumread. He also makes no effort towards derailing the FT lynch. He shows far more interest in night shots than he does in the lynch. So Onegu: a) refused to take a stance on FT b) put in extra effort to write an original case on Koshi, even though his reasons were mostly not alignment-indicative c) didn't push his case on Koshi at all and showed complete apathy toward the lynch
Onegu's soft defense of FT and nonexistant pressure on Koshi are clearly scummy, far more so than Vivax's "townread" on FT.
Risen has no comment on this, and does not change his stance.
I press him about it in thread, and he still has no explanation and is unable to find a single other example. He doesn't press Vivax, his #1 scumread, at all in-thread after this. He doesn't even MENTION him, in fact, except when asked by me. If he honestly believed in his logic, why would he back off? The explanation is that he CAN'T press it in-thread because he cannot explain it.
He's also refused to elaborate on his Grack scumread, even after being asked multiple times by me. He's trying to twist everything he can into making Sharrant scum, including his latest post:
On August 15 2013 01:44 Risen wrote:
Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait....
Sharrant has... a one shot alignment check, a one shot hp check, and two PMs? Why wouldn't it remain at one if this was a real role? Outside of role speculation which isn't really conclusive ever, have you people looked at this claim?!?!
Is this real life? How is this not the lynch for today?
And holy crapshoot in a barrel filled with chickens and sausage HOW IS HE LORD?!??!
House Tyrell
Kushm4sta
johnnywup
Sharrant
Acrofales
Of the four people in this house they chose the one who has two pages of filter in a game that's now on day 3 who told them he was going to be gone for a large portion?!
...
...
...
Attacking Sharrant for being lord makes absolutely no sense, since that is OBVIOUSLY not alignment-indicative.
Also, since some people have been arguing "not using logic doesn't make him scum":
- town often uses strong logic
- town sometimes uses "crazy logic", that doesn't really make sense unless you look at it a very specific way
- scum will use whatever logic they can, including "no logic", where they just make up reads at will
- town never uses "no logic"
It's one thing for people to have crazy scumreads. It's another for them to have obviously unjustifiable scumreads, no matter how you look at it.
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On August 14 2013 14:09 Mocsta wrote:
Lords.
Tyrell and baratheon are the only full houses left.
I suggest we purge there. That way we help maintain lord full house no longevity.
Chromatically from baratheon is my choice. But I am a mere peasant.
Explain "purging houses"?
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On August 15 2013 02:11 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:59 strongandbig wrote:
Anyway here's what I said to clarity about vivax, and it's what makes me think he's scum that has nothing to do with activity:
also i feel like vivax's reads change a lot and he's not nearly as aggressive as usual when he's town. if you look at his reads, for the lynch/kp target he goes koshi->sharrant->koshi->yamato->yamato or johnnywup->koshi or me
most of the time his reasons were switching were "it doesn't seem like i can convince lords to go for my scumread." That doesn't feel like vivax, he seems like the kind of person who rages when people don't listen to him rather than the kind of person who just says "okay moving on". You were in Sicilian, you should know from logs that I can be quite malleable. Just your first post was so bad that I never swayed from the opinion you were scum. This is a game where you don't have a voice unless lords listen to you. I posted my points on Koshi D1, Oberyn his on yammo. Lords preferred Onegu, then FT. I had no way of knowing what those guys were, except that Onegu claimed to be busy, hence I couldn't really speak up against their lynches either. Reads changing. That's not scummy unless you show it is.
@ ChromaticallyRisen was referring to my post on Onegu when he claimed I was defending people iirc.
No, he specifically said "his town read on FT".
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On August 15 2013 02:18 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 15 2013 02:14 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:11 Vivax wrote:On August 14 2013 23:59 strongandbig wrote:
Anyway here's what I said to clarity about vivax, and it's what makes me think he's scum that has nothing to do with activity:
also i feel like vivax's reads change a lot and he's not nearly as aggressive as usual when he's town. if you look at his reads, for the lynch/kp target he goes koshi->sharrant->koshi->yamato->yamato or johnnywup->koshi or me
most of the time his reasons were switching were "it doesn't seem like i can convince lords to go for my scumread." That doesn't feel like vivax, he seems like the kind of person who rages when people don't listen to him rather than the kind of person who just says "okay moving on". You were in Sicilian, you should know from logs that I can be quite malleable. Just your first post was so bad that I never swayed from the opinion you were scum. This is a game where you don't have a voice unless lords listen to you. I posted my points on Koshi D1, Oberyn his on yammo. Lords preferred Onegu, then FT. I had no way of knowing what those guys were, except that Onegu claimed to be busy, hence I couldn't really speak up against their lynches either. Reads changing. That's not scummy unless you show it is.
@ ChromaticallyRisen was referring to my post on Onegu when he claimed I was defending people iirc. No, he specifically said "his town read on FT". Oh that's from PMs? Well, in thread he talked about a post of mine on Onegu, calling it a soft-defense. Chrom, you had s0lstice as scumread, shouldn't his defense of Sharrant I posted make you suspicious of him, and do you think it's likely that he bussed yammo D1 already?
Solstice is town because of PMs, sorry I have to do that but that's really what it is. He's interested in finding scum and has had a townie thought process about it.
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-Risen has ONE reason for his STRONG scumread on Vivax
-the reason does NOT apply to Vivax
-the reason applies better to others, but Risen has no problem with them
where is the town?
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On August 15 2013 02:42 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:39 Chromatically wrote:
-Risen has ONE reason for his STRONG scumread on Vivax
-the reason does NOT apply to Vivax
-the reason applies better to others, but Risen has no problem with them
where is the town? Perhaps I've moved on to tunneling other people? Why are you so fixated on this?
Because it makes zero sense whatsoever from a town perspective?
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On August 15 2013 02:51 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:46 Chromatically wrote:On August 15 2013 02:42 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 02:39 Chromatically wrote:
-Risen has ONE reason for his STRONG scumread on Vivax
-the reason does NOT apply to Vivax
-the reason applies better to others, but Risen has no problem with them
where is the town? Perhaps I've moved on to tunneling other people? Why are you so fixated on this? Because it makes zero sense whatsoever from a town perspective? Why not? I had scum reads, they weren't exactly strong, but they were scum reads. I moved on because I found something else, and now I've moved on because I've once again found something else. The end.
The problem isn't changing reads, it's the lack of reasoning behind them.
What do you think about Vivax now?
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On August 15 2013 05:50 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:32 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:27 Risen wrote:
^I don't know what was scummy about my d1 play, please link the case detailing what you thought was scummy to me. Also please explain why my actions d2 and today have been scummy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19495357since then: you've been focusing basically entirely on sharrant. Your initial reasons were mostly bad, and when sharrant answered them you ignored his answers and continued to tunnel him, and me and acro largely because of the connection case with sharrant. it's scummy because your ignoring his answers, and focusing on connections before he flips, make it more likely to be a convenient way to "remain consistent" and have some thread presence without having to actually hunt scum in a meaningful way. Excuse me if I'm wrong, but Sharrant's defense was basically "no scum would do things that I have done". I would, so I don't see why he wouldn't. He followed this with "Oh I covered my ass with Acro in case he was scum by giving him two targets and telling him I was choosing the one I didn't check thereby giving Acro a chance to WIFOM his way to defending the right person". No. A town cop doesn't give him that chance. A town cop with a town read asks Acro about two different people he has no chance of checking, and then asks for that town reads personal opinion. Then he weighs the response and makes his checks very quietly. God... this is all based upon a town cop even asking someone he doesn't have confirmed as town who he should check. NO TOWN COP DOES THIS ARE YOU PEOPLE KIDDING ME!!! Who does that? I have never, ever, ever, ever, EVER seen a cop ask a non cops opinion on who he should check unless they were confirmed town. ESPECIALLY when if Acro were to be scum Shar would just die. He'd be dead, that's it, that's the end of it. It isn't "Oh Sharrant came to the thread after not telling anybody about his one shot and claiming a red check." It's "Sharrant came to the thread after asking another person he hadn't checked who he should check AT NIGHT WHEN HE HAS NO IDEA IF HE'S GOING TO LIVE OR NOT" Who knows they're going to live through the night? SCUM. Shit this doesn't even bring Acro into it as being a scum buddy like my last scenario did. It make Acro look pretty damn bad since how the hell didn't he think of this as town. That's the first fuckin thing I would think of if someone asked me who they should check. I'd be thinking, "Wait a fuckin second, why is a cop asking me this shit at night when I could be scum? Am I about to become Sharrant's town-confirmer while he busses a teammate?" Fuck the WIFOM "bomb" Sharrant is defending himself with. There's no answer he could possibly give that would convince me he was town. Nothing. So if you other lords want to fuckin hang yourselves fine. But I'm done with this. He's so clearly scum it fucking hurts. Fuck my vote on SnB. ##unvote
##vote: SharrantSharrant is a pretty clean and cut scum team member. No one in this thread has scum slipped, so unless someone wants to come into the thread and claim red it's staying there. The end.
So your idea is that Sharrant, before bussing his scumbuddy yamato, FAKECLAIMED cop to Acro to ask for his opinion? And he was just going to hope that Acro suggested yamato, so that way he could LIE and say he was checking kush, before actually bussing yamato???
And you're saying that he's confirmed scum because it would be a bit dumb to claim to an unconfirmed player? That the above scenario is FAR more likely?
On August 15 2013 03:24 Risen wrote:Which question? And as to the nature of the scumslip, Xatalos has been in PMs with me for a while now soft defending Shar. I don't really think anything of it and I'm trying to bring him around to seeing Shar as scum. Nothing truly sticks out, I think he's just trying to gain perspective on me. He then tells me in PM that Shar's claimed 2 PM ability is simply house PMs. House have 3 people. The 2 PM ability isn't house PMs or it would be 3. ggnore
And look at this.
REGARDLESS of the nonexistent nature of Sharrant's "ability", how is this EVER a scumslip???
There is nothing scummy at all about Xatalos making a "mistake" like this. There is no way that ANYONE could EVER believe there is. This is NOT a townie thinking he found a scumslip, because this bears no resemblance to an actual scumslip at all. This is scum FAKING finding a scumslip because they can get away with it and think it will give them town points (oh, look).
Risen has done nothing all game except call people scum without any logical thinking whatsoever. This is NOT what town does.
Townies always have SOME semblance of logic behind their posts, regardless of whether it's twisted and wrong. Scum are willing to do whatever they need so they can get the reads that benefit them the most.
Are you actually going to let scum get away with saying random shit that doesn't make sense?
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On August 15 2013 05:34 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:28 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:24 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:18 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
From iamperfection's last will:
"Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though."
I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. Though to be fair this is an actual point that might make sense if you hadn't just posted a case. He only repeated his earlier weak case and said Vivax was scum for no reason. Why are you soft defending him while voting for him? Wait what? My vote is on SnB. On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions?
your other answers fall into the category:
[quote] From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!! I hate people ignoring my case so please link me to or write out exactly what you want answered and I will do so. well, its kind of hard to talk to you about my case on you when what i want is for other people to pay attention to it but the last interaction anyone had with me about it was this convo with rayn which he abandoned: On August 13 2013 05:01 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:31 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:22 strongandbig wrote:
rayn can you explain why you have a town read on risen?
Do you really think his first reads post could come from scum!Risen? Basically because of that. yes i do and i said why did you read my post? Yes i read your post. First you say Risen is scum for calling out anti-town behavior (Oats/yamato/DI). not for calling out anti-town behavior. For calling people "scum" because they're playing badly as town, not because of actual behaviors that indicate they are scum. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sounds good. You are also saying he should know their meta. Afaik the guy has had a long break from mafia (correct me if i am wrong here). People (aside me) tend to forget how people play in games, just look at Titanic where i was trying to confirm Oats in a way or another from the game he played a couple of weeks ago. Didn´t work. So calling out anti-town behavior without looking into players last games makes him mafia?
well, if he really had forgotten everything about those players then my "should have known better" point wouldn't be correct. I don't think it's that easy to forget things like "this player gets in fights" or especially to forget dandel ion. but anyway, even if that is the case - there's still the fact that an experienced player would, if they were town, know that townies get in fights and fuck up the thread too, and that spamming doesn't make you scum. Come on rayn, making cases against bad play rather than scum-motivated play is scum 101 and that's what risen was doing here, whether or not he knew anyone's meta. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Then there is a connection case. You said townies can do that too. That´s right. Did you check if Risen does that as town? As scum? At least you didn´t tell that in your case. If you are gonna tell Risen is scum for something both town/mafia do, at least provide some evidence.
that's why this was a minor point, it's something that both town and scum do but scum are more likely to do it than townies are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Huge post - makes him scum how? i never said it did, i was trying to explain why it doesn't make him town. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
"Easy reads" for anti town behavior - makes him scum how?
duh. if someone is choosing easy targets and making easy cases against them, it's because that person is not actually trying to find real scum but just trying to look like they are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How is Risen´s post "constructed and careful"?
compare it to the entire rest of his filter. he obviously spent more time on that post than on anything else he's done - it's much longer, but also (for example) he uses quotes more (the only place he uses quotes as examples rather than things to respond to). and yet he spends all that effort making terrible, scummy reads. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The only thing that holds water in your post is that he has not explained / pursued his reads. Fuck, a half of the playerbase doesn´t even seem to have reads. If you think Risen´s reads are bad, why don´t you question him on them? Instead you want to hear from people who have been in contact with him?? Why? Why not from him? i want to hear from people who have been in contact with him because maybe he's been putting more effort into his reads and the game outside of the thread. those people can give me information that i can't get from reading his filter. i fully expect him to answer my case but i shouldn't have to ask for it specifically, should i? Well I'm trying to talk to you so you'll change your view on me. Maybe through that interaction other people find me more or less scummy or support your case more or less because they find my answers satisfactory or not. I'd like you to ask me questions and I will answer them, or I'd like you to point me to what needs to be answered.
Also, his was posted when Risen was voting snb. Does this sound like someone talking to their scumread to you?
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On August 15 2013 11:06 Risen wrote:
And Chrom your version falls apart when you realize Sharrant gave Acro the option of Yamato and kush. He wasn't hoping for anything. Nice try?
It doesn't matter? You're saying that scum Sharrant asked for advice on who to check from town Acro when he was always going to check kush? How does that make SO MUCH more sense than what you posted, so that Sharrant is almost confirmed scum?
On August 15 2013 11:16 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 11:13 s0Lstice wrote:
yea nope
you were concerned with his read on you, not your read on him.
two veeeery different things They're the same thing. You're reading too much into this and obs is laughing at you.
Are you seriously threatening people with the OBS QT??? Really?
And Sol is exactly right about this. If you believed SnB to be scum, you wouldn't give two shits what his "read" was on you, because it was manufactured anyway. The fact that you cared about his read on you means that you thought he was town, while your vote was on him.
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On August 11 2013 22:33 Sharrant wrote:
Well, I wasn't quite expecting to be revealed so quickly.
I claimed my role to Acro last night (I'm a one shot alignment cop). I asked him who I should target with it, he said Kush and Yamato. Both players I had in mind originally. In case he was mafia I lied and said I would target Kush.
After I brought up framing he suggested that Kush might be too high profile, and that I should check Koshi or Ace. I think both of those are fairly legitimate suggestions. It seems less likely that Acro is mafia because he was suggesting more people to check that are in positions where a check would be very good.
An alternative is that Acro is mafia, and they have no framer like role, so he wanted to push me off a mafia Kush, but I find this unlikely.
At the end of the day you're left with a red check on Yamato, someone relatively out of the spotlight and not a likely choice for framers. And as I stated, his argumentative nature in this game is quite different from how it is when he's arguing as a town member.
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"When you're saying something and another person says no it didn't happen like that you should very quickly run over your facts and double check them or you end up looking like an idiot in the thread."
-Risen
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So Risen, what do you think about Sharrant now?
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That is pretty confusing, the rng rule in the OP is only for when the lord dies.
Mocsta, I would like to hear your other reasons for rayn being scum when you have time.
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Is anyone even reading what I post? Risen is like 100% the best lynch for today, no one has a single comment on it.
Why would town Risen call out the Xatalos "scumslip"? Think about it.
On August 15 2013 03:24 Risen wrote:Which question? And as to the nature of the scumslip, Xatalos has been in PMs with me for a while now soft defending Shar. I don't really think anything of it and I'm trying to bring him around to seeing Shar as scum. Nothing truly sticks out, I think he's just trying to gain perspective on me. He then tells me in PM that Shar's claimed 2 PM ability is simply house PMs. House have 3 people. The 2 PM ability isn't house PMs or it would be 3. ggnore
What townie reads this and thinks this is a scumslip? NO ONE. Maybe in a newbie game this is okay, but there is no way anyone who knows how to play this game (as Risen clearly does) would think this is a scumslip.
Which is more likely, town Risen completely forgetting how to play this game, or scum Risen deciding to fake finding a "scumslip" for town cred?
To believe that Risen is town, you'd ALSO have to believe that he tunneled Sharrant for a day without actually reading the post in question that proved him scum. This is NOT town trying to find scum with bad logic. This is scum faking crazy reads to avoid responsibility.
On August 15 2013 11:16 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 11:13 s0Lstice wrote:
yea nope
you were concerned with his read on you, not your read on him.
two veeeery different things They're the same thing. You're reading too much into this and obs is laughing at you.
And you'd have to believe that town Risen thinks it beneficial to threaten people with the obs qt laughing at them (and by calling them bad) under pressure instead of just explaining himself.
On August 15 2013 05:34 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:28 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:24 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:18 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
From iamperfection's last will:
"Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though."
I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. Though to be fair this is an actual point that might make sense if you hadn't just posted a case. He only repeated his earlier weak case and said Vivax was scum for no reason. Why are you soft defending him while voting for him? Wait what? My vote is on SnB. On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions?
your other answers fall into the category:
[quote] From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!! I hate people ignoring my case so please link me to or write out exactly what you want answered and I will do so. well, its kind of hard to talk to you about my case on you when what i want is for other people to pay attention to it but the last interaction anyone had with me about it was this convo with rayn which he abandoned: On August 13 2013 05:01 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:31 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:22 strongandbig wrote:
rayn can you explain why you have a town read on risen?
Do you really think his first reads post could come from scum!Risen? Basically because of that. yes i do and i said why did you read my post? Yes i read your post. First you say Risen is scum for calling out anti-town behavior (Oats/yamato/DI). not for calling out anti-town behavior. For calling people "scum" because they're playing badly as town, not because of actual behaviors that indicate they are scum. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sounds good. You are also saying he should know their meta. Afaik the guy has had a long break from mafia (correct me if i am wrong here). People (aside me) tend to forget how people play in games, just look at Titanic where i was trying to confirm Oats in a way or another from the game he played a couple of weeks ago. Didn´t work. So calling out anti-town behavior without looking into players last games makes him mafia?
well, if he really had forgotten everything about those players then my "should have known better" point wouldn't be correct. I don't think it's that easy to forget things like "this player gets in fights" or especially to forget dandel ion. but anyway, even if that is the case - there's still the fact that an experienced player would, if they were town, know that townies get in fights and fuck up the thread too, and that spamming doesn't make you scum. Come on rayn, making cases against bad play rather than scum-motivated play is scum 101 and that's what risen was doing here, whether or not he knew anyone's meta. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Then there is a connection case. You said townies can do that too. That´s right. Did you check if Risen does that as town? As scum? At least you didn´t tell that in your case. If you are gonna tell Risen is scum for something both town/mafia do, at least provide some evidence.
that's why this was a minor point, it's something that both town and scum do but scum are more likely to do it than townies are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Huge post - makes him scum how? i never said it did, i was trying to explain why it doesn't make him town. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
"Easy reads" for anti town behavior - makes him scum how?
duh. if someone is choosing easy targets and making easy cases against them, it's because that person is not actually trying to find real scum but just trying to look like they are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How is Risen´s post "constructed and careful"?
compare it to the entire rest of his filter. he obviously spent more time on that post than on anything else he's done - it's much longer, but also (for example) he uses quotes more (the only place he uses quotes as examples rather than things to respond to). and yet he spends all that effort making terrible, scummy reads. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The only thing that holds water in your post is that he has not explained / pursued his reads. Fuck, a half of the playerbase doesn´t even seem to have reads. If you think Risen´s reads are bad, why don´t you question him on them? Instead you want to hear from people who have been in contact with him?? Why? Why not from him? i want to hear from people who have been in contact with him because maybe he's been putting more effort into his reads and the game outside of the thread. those people can give me information that i can't get from reading his filter. i fully expect him to answer my case but i shouldn't have to ask for it specifically, should i? Well I'm trying to talk to you so you'll change your view on me. Maybe through that interaction other people find me more or less scummy or support your case more or less because they find my answers satisfactory or not. I'd like you to ask me questions and I will answer them, or I'd like you to point me to what needs to be answered.
And you'd have to believe that town Risen greatly cares about his scumread's read on him, while Risen is voting him.
As far as SnB/Vivax goes, Vivax lynch is better. Both of them look like they were inactive from real life for D1, but SnB has actually been pushing stuff (and I agree with what he's saying) whereas Vivax is doing a lot of questioning without actually pushing anything, as others have said.
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On August 16 2013 04:19 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 04:13 Chromatically wrote:
What townie reads this and thinks this is a scumslip? NO ONE. Maybe in a newbie game this is okay, but there is no way anyone who knows how to play this game (as Risen clearly does) would think this is a scumslip.
Sadly this is where I'm stuck at with him.................
Exactly. We're talking about someone who said this:
On August 15 2013 11:47 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 11:33 Chromatically wrote:On August 15 2013 11:06 Risen wrote:
And Chrom your version falls apart when you realize Sharrant gave Acro the option of Yamato and kush. He wasn't hoping for anything. Nice try? It doesn't matter? You're saying that scum Sharrant asked for advice on who to check from town Acro when he was always going to check kush? How does that make SO MUCH more sense than what you posted, so that Sharrant is almost confirmed scum? On August 15 2013 11:16 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 11:13 s0Lstice wrote:
yea nope
you were concerned with his read on you, not your read on him.
two veeeery different things They're the same thing. You're reading too much into this and obs is laughing at you. Are you seriously threatening people with the OBS QT??? Really? And Sol is exactly right about this. If you believed SnB to be scum, you wouldn't give two shits what his "read" was on you, because it was manufactured anyway. The fact that you cared about his read on you means that you thought he was town, while your vote was on him. Scum reads do not equal confirmed scum. You don't seem to agree with this, and I'm going to say you're a bad player because of it. Until you realize the two are different, you'll always be bad. End of story.
and yet doesn't know the basics of what makes someone scum? I cannot believe that.
Unless you mean you think he's town for it?
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On August 16 2013 04:23 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 04:21 Chromatically wrote:On August 16 2013 04:19 Xatalos wrote:On August 16 2013 04:13 Chromatically wrote:
What townie reads this and thinks this is a scumslip? NO ONE. Maybe in a newbie game this is okay, but there is no way anyone who knows how to play this game (as Risen clearly does) would think this is a scumslip.
Sadly this is where I'm stuck at with him................. Exactly. We're talking about someone who said this: On August 15 2013 11:47 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 11:33 Chromatically wrote:On August 15 2013 11:06 Risen wrote:
And Chrom your version falls apart when you realize Sharrant gave Acro the option of Yamato and kush. He wasn't hoping for anything. Nice try? It doesn't matter? You're saying that scum Sharrant asked for advice on who to check from town Acro when he was always going to check kush? How does that make SO MUCH more sense than what you posted, so that Sharrant is almost confirmed scum? On August 15 2013 11:16 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 11:13 s0Lstice wrote:
yea nope
you were concerned with his read on you, not your read on him.
two veeeery different things They're the same thing. You're reading too much into this and obs is laughing at you. Are you seriously threatening people with the OBS QT??? Really? And Sol is exactly right about this. If you believed SnB to be scum, you wouldn't give two shits what his "read" was on you, because it was manufactured anyway. The fact that you cared about his read on you means that you thought he was town, while your vote was on him. Scum reads do not equal confirmed scum. You don't seem to agree with this, and I'm going to say you're a bad player because of it. Until you realize the two are different, you'll always be bad. End of story. and yet doesn't know the basics of what makes someone scum? I cannot believe that. Unless you mean you think he's town for it? I mean it's hard for me to determine if he's the worst townie I've ever seen or a chaotic scum.
Look at what his read on Vivax was originally based off of:
"He's giving townreads too easily and was noncommittal about the lynch."
Which is a good heuristic for finding scum. That shows that Risen does know how to play this game.
I cannot believe that someone who has at least a basic knowledge of scumhunting can do something like the Xatalos "scumslip" thing.
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On August 16 2013 04:40 s0Lstice wrote:Chrom, I was trying to think back on what I remember about Risen. Have a look at this filter: clickIt's from SSB-64. He moves around a lot and changes his opinions at a breakneck speed. It can often look like he has no conviction behind his original thought because he so quickly moves on to something else. The context was the same for the s&b vote this game. He settled on the s&b vote, and then quickly moved on to the dialogue with him and not wanting to vote him. Kinda makes sense with the way s&b was here and defending himself with vigor while simultaneously pushing his favored lynch. I originally thought you had a good point with the s&b thing, but in light of this, I don't think it's really alignment indicative.
That's a good point. I was noticing how much Risen was moving his vote around to thread sentiment this game, so that might not be alignment-indicative. There is this post, though:
On August 15 2013 05:24 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:18 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that.
I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false.
1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI.
2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection.
It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.)
[quote]
I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him.
I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind.
The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. Though to be fair this is an actual point that might make sense if you hadn't just posted a case. He only repeated his earlier weak case and said Vivax was scum for no reason. Why are you soft defending him while voting for him? Wait what? My vote is on SnB. Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 03:42 Vivax wrote:
Look, Xatalos. My question regarding your (suddenly not any more?) scumread, of which you fail to understand why he would attack you like that (although he's your scumread you don't see scummy intentions?).
Can you answer this or will you post some more insults, lols and rofls, great lord of house shitvotes?
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I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that. I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false. 1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI. 2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection. It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.) On August 15 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
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- Your posts before Acro's case imply that he is your scumread. Tell me when did you drop your suspicion on him.
- Explain this: "He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... " because that's exactly what Mocsta said. If not, why did you not say this in the first place?
- About the rolename thing (is this all you are going to bring up - i thought you had more things as you implied so). I talked about it with Solstice, i do not agree with him, and i think it's not alignment indicative. I am not calling johnny scum because of it, I AM SAYING HE IS NOT TOWN BECAUSE OF IT!!!! wtf?
- You didn't explain the "forced aggression", where is it? Gimme quotes?
You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him. I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind. The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!! I hate people ignoring my case so please link me to or write out exactly what you want answered and I will do so.
This is pretty soon after he votes SnB. He makes it clear that he thinks SnB is scum at the beginning, but then cares about SnB's opinion in the second half. It doesn't have the same caring tone that the other post had, but he clearly cared about SnB's opinion while he had a strong scumread on him.
It's not as strong, true, but then there's still the other stuff.
On August 16 2013 04:41 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 04:37 Chromatically wrote:On August 16 2013 04:23 Xatalos wrote:On August 16 2013 04:21 Chromatically wrote:On August 16 2013 04:19 Xatalos wrote:On August 16 2013 04:13 Chromatically wrote:
What townie reads this and thinks this is a scumslip? NO ONE. Maybe in a newbie game this is okay, but there is no way anyone who knows how to play this game (as Risen clearly does) would think this is a scumslip.
Sadly this is where I'm stuck at with him................. Exactly. We're talking about someone who said this: On August 15 2013 11:47 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 11:33 Chromatically wrote:On August 15 2013 11:06 Risen wrote:
And Chrom your version falls apart when you realize Sharrant gave Acro the option of Yamato and kush. He wasn't hoping for anything. Nice try? It doesn't matter? You're saying that scum Sharrant asked for advice on who to check from town Acro when he was always going to check kush? How does that make SO MUCH more sense than what you posted, so that Sharrant is almost confirmed scum? On August 15 2013 11:16 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 11:13 s0Lstice wrote:
yea nope
you were concerned with his read on you, not your read on him.
two veeeery different things They're the same thing. You're reading too much into this and obs is laughing at you. Are you seriously threatening people with the OBS QT??? Really? And Sol is exactly right about this. If you believed SnB to be scum, you wouldn't give two shits what his "read" was on you, because it was manufactured anyway. The fact that you cared about his read on you means that you thought he was town, while your vote was on him. Scum reads do not equal confirmed scum. You don't seem to agree with this, and I'm going to say you're a bad player because of it. Until you realize the two are different, you'll always be bad. End of story. and yet doesn't know the basics of what makes someone scum? I cannot believe that. Unless you mean you think he's town for it? I mean it's hard for me to determine if he's the worst townie I've ever seen or a chaotic scum. Look at what his read on Vivax was originally based off of: "He's giving townreads too easily and was noncommittal about the lynch." Which is a good heuristic for finding scum. That shows that Risen does know how to play this game. I cannot believe that someone who has at least a basic knowledge of scumhunting can do something like the Xatalos "scumslip" thing. The same can be said for most of his doings so far (his fail Sharrant case, fail first casepost etc.). Occasionally he lectures people on how to play yet continues to play terribly. It looks like he knows how to play in theory but never applies it to his own play. I agree, it sounds scummy. Intentional? On the other hand, I do remember him playing terribly in the previous GOT themed Mafia as town. It was a long time ago though. We're back to the main question: too stupid to be scum or not?
I'm at the other end: too stupid to be town. There's no thought process that results in his thinking what you said is a scumslip. The only explanation is that he's trying to fake finding one.
Look at how he backs off of the scumslip. He never realizes, "oh, there's nothing alignment indicative in there at all, I guess that's not a scumslip". He realizes that he misread the original post. That way, he can back off of the "slip" without actually having to explain his thought process (because it doesn't exist).
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Yeah 100% lynch Vivax now. No reason to risk a mislynch today.
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EPT
