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On August 08 2013 15:00 DeusXmachina wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 12:11 Umasi wrote:
Also, what makes deus a better lynch than you? That's what you have to convince me.
And I'm not leaning too far scum on you :<
I want a better reason than "well I am scummy but YOU GOTTA BELIEVE ME" because deus could just go say something identical and we'd be back at square one. At this point it doesn't seem like he can answer that. The fact of the matter is, I am not a better lynch than then slam. Like, what do these posts say exactly? Nothing! Pointless spam! herehereHe has been posting shit like this all game. Somewhere in his 18 page filter of spam might be some indication that he is that last scum, and I aim to prove that. Want to know what is going through my mind right now? Alakaslam or Umasi, which one is it? Somewhere in those filters is the answer, and Ill be damned if I don't find out.
Like I pointed out earlier, calls answering his questions spam
Yeah Umasi what must I do to convince you?
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Stim you too. Any doubts? I am starting to tunnel and I don't want to do that- point out my flaws o reasoning!
Now for the sake of not spamming, y'all speak up.
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tbth that really helped. I'll reserve judgement for now =/
##UNVOTE
Stim, what are you thinking?
Deus, why have you said you would read filters so often and then straight up not?
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and slam, why don't you post if I die reads? I still never figured that out, and it still gives me pause =/
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On August 09 2013 13:39 Umasi wrote:
and slam, why don't you post if I die reads? I still never figured that out, and it still gives me pause =/
Oh yeah I never answered this
Where did the idea come from I thought I was gonna die all the time (I am aware I did at times)? And usually while under that impression, I also was pretty confused- didn't know what to say, and didnt have the right lunch or didnt have time etc. I didn't realize, I never did that?
Anyway I sux at scum hunting, so I always feel kind of reserved.
My catalogued impulse thoughts stuff while waiting for someone to post next.
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On August 09 2013 13:38 Umasi wrote:
tbth that really helped. I'll reserve judgement for now =/
##UNVOTE
Stim, what are you thinking?
Deus, why have you said you would read filters so often and then straight up not?
Oh, and he might be as you accuse him like this.
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On August 03 2013 10:15 DeusXmachina wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 10:09 Alakaslam wrote:
Umasi:
Aggressively hates no lynch
Switches off reps, but doesn't really push for counter wagon: rather, he goes for no lynch or get Indio as "he is scummier than scam"
Night
HolyFlare implicates him and dies
First thin Umasi does? Vote Indio? NO!! VOTES SCAM!
His defenses are NOT making sense. Indio's "pro town post" came after that vote
Slam. I have already expressed my suspicion of Umasi many times. Like I said his vote switch in my opinion is a townie move. Could you please address only that. Unless you already did and I missed it. You are hard to follow man.
How did you know/why did you think this was townie when others did not?
On August 03 2013 11:00 DeusXmachina wrote:
Which move would most appear like a attempt at blending in? A) Switching a vote last minute or B) Sticking with your vote
Btw Umasi.
We are three of us stumbling around like drunks. Who is acting... See we are all inconsistent! And, well, townie looking o_O
Vets probably tearing hair out seeing right through scum...
This is almost as mind killing for me as NWM...
On August 05 2013 02:42 DeusXmachina wrote:Good Quote HereHe is saying that generally speaking mafia try to blend in. More often than not that is their mindset. I would rather use that as a reason to be suspicious then the flip side, mafia being very active and aggressive to appear pro town. Umasi was one of the first ones to vote against reps, you could call that an aggressive play. At times he was one of the most outspoken individuals against reps, and at others he seemed to think reps was just a bad townie. His indecision is not scummy. Rather, it just means he couldn't make up his mind, and rightfully so because reps turned out to be town. In addition, Umasi has done several other things to draw attention to himself, for example, he vote-switched last minute and didn't really give a good reason why, and he has been inconsistent at times. I see this is a townie mindset. Townies are the ones who should be inconsistent right? They are constantly trying to analyze scum reads. Scum reads are highly subject to change. Again, think of the flip side. If you are a scum and you want to push an agenda, maybe even get someone mislynched, what would you have to gain from indecision? Not only would it draw attention to yourself, but it would weaken your agenda. For these reasons, I am not voting against Umasi. I was suspicious of him for early game, yes, but that vote switch got me thinking. The more I thought about the vote switch the more it seemed like a townie thing to do. I realize if Umasi is scum I will be boned, but can you really blame me for thinking this way? If Umasi is scum than maddddd props to him. I have already expressed my suspicion of Gotard. I agree with what others have said. I am not going to make a huge case against him right now because I feel like I would be regurgitating a lot of information. At this point in time he is the best candidate to vote for because he appears scummy and is most likely to be lynched. We can probably count on a Stim vote against him right?
But augh, this is so town!
On August 02 2013 01:43 DeusXmachina wrote:
Guys DON'T jump ship right now. We have done really well so far. Why would we throw it away last minute? Alakaslam, unvoting reps is either a scummy thing to do by you, or just bad play. You have said yourself that we are even voting reps to get information at this point. Why would you want to throw that away!? We are already learning so much from the lynch. Stick with your gut people. Reps is either scum or a bad townie and I no way will help us win, simple as that. This is a game. Play to win. Reps will bounce back, no hard feelings.
Again don't read between my lines, but why would scum reps need to bounce back/no hard feelings? If he was scum shouldn't we expect him to totally understand we were doing our job lynching him? But town reps would be the one who needed consolation, right?
Just looks- note I admit only LOOKS- like Svengali play, TO ME.
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yeah, if he comes in and posts thoughts on filters, I'll be happy!
And if not, well darn!
you've mentioned frequently that you thought you were going to die, and you haven't been posting them REGARDLESS (and I am a fan of them) but it's not the biggest deal.
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On August 01 2013 19:27 DeusXmachina wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 15:38 Umasi wrote:On August 01 2013 14:35 DeusXmachina wrote:Last post before I go to bed. Good to see more people are taking a stance against reps. Reps, don't defend yourself by making a case of your innocence, defend yourself by contributing. On August 01 2013 13:10 reps)squishy wrote:
@infill I want to question you.
Q: You decided to be neutral which is seems like a scum move to not draw attention. Why would you lean towards neutral if you were town?
A:
Q: You have not posted very much are you busy whats up with that?
A: This is a start. Q1 is good. If you're town you should be able to offer a lot more. You still seem scummy to me. Umasi, this is directed at you: You said that depending on the reps flip you would still consider me as scum. Hhooookayy can we get past my first posts please. Haven't I already said several times that they were shit? That is your grounds for suspicion? I invite everyone to filter my posts and look them over. I am one of the most townie people in this game, and my later posts have definitely proved that. Umasi for this reason you are going on my notes list under suspicions. If reps flips town the most scummy individuals will be the ones who voted against reps last. The ones who vote reps at the end are the ones who vote to fit in. They don't vote someone else because they would be expected to make a case against the person they are voting against. Furthermore, they don't jump in early on and take an active stance because of the fear of unwanted attention. We should be suspicious of anyone who lurks and votes reps after this post, unless they can offer an in depth explanation of why they are voting against him. I am aware that if reps is town there is probably a talented scum that has been able to work there way into this argument in a way that appears pro town. We can work on them later. However, scum play with the fear of being noticed. They play with the fear of attention. Although it may be extremely subtle, the fear shows itself in their posts i.e a late vote like I talked about above. Why are you preemptively defending yourself? reps hasn't flipped yet, and you think he's scum. Hell, that entire post, ALL of it, is written on the contingency that reps is town. You read as unsure whether to proceed with the lynch because you're worried about the possible aftermath as it concerns you, not because you might be mislynching a townie. I don't want to talk about you too much, because reps is more important to clear up first. Like, you can feel free to keep pushing yourself into the issue, but that's just counterproductive, because if reps flips scum (like we think he will) I'm not voting you ANYWAY. Over half of that post was taking about how we can move forward. As we get closer to lynching time we can learn something from peoples votes. That was the point I was making. OF COURSE it was written on the contingency that reps flips town. Did you want me to add a part about if reps flips scum? Okay here it is: If reps flips scum we can look at who was hesitant to vote against him (is that even a good read? scum might have just sacked him as a lost cause). I was trying to discuss what could happen in the near future, because lets be honest, however unlikely, reps can still flip town, right? I didn't think I needed to address what would happen if reps flipped scum, thought that was pretty obvious. Furthermore, a lot of my post was under the assumption that reps gets lynched, as in I am hoping reps get lynched because this is what we can learn from the lynching. How does that come across as unsure whether to proceed with lynching reps? Umasi I asked you earlier why you thought I was scum, which is perfectly reasonable because I am one of the most pro town people here, and your answer was poor. I was simply addressing that. That's hardly inserting myself into the issue. Didn't I preface that paragraph with, "Umasi this is directed at you"? I am suspicious of you because you have this notion that I am scummy. I am trying not to focus 100 percent of my attention on reps, because there is a lot that can be learned from other people in this game at the moment. Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 17:13 Gotard wrote:On August 01 2013 10:03 Nightcat99 wrote:
Gotard needs to explain the vote on infil.
When I saw his list the first thing I thought was that it's scummy because it was super neutral and he's scum reads are weak so I decided to pressure him with my vote and get some analysis and in depth reasoning behind his reads. It's easy to say that my read on him was weak because it was based purely on one single post but I wanted to see his next step. Look at that post: On August 01 2013 05:26 infii wrote:
I'm sorry but you won't get an indepth analysis from me on day 1 (maybe even day2). There is just not enough information on everyone, that would be like looking for a needle in a haystack. (is this even a common phrase in english?) This is pure ignorance. "Hello! I will be lurking and this isn't scummy because there is on information!". Yes you have zero information about players at the very beginning but you need to gather it somehow and waiting doesn't help. That is why you might see people pressuring someone because of one bad post or even a single word in a wrong place. After I voted on you, you did nothing to prove that you are pro town. If there is not enough information why do you think that someone is scummy? On July 31 2013 17:47 infii wrote:
Nightcat99 is nr. 2 on the suspicious-list. Not many posts but the few ones have a chaotic flavor to them as in trying to confuse people. Why his post are having a chaotic flavor? When/how did he try to confuse people? I agree with Gotard on several points here. Pressuring someone is a great way to get information. Also, I think you have a good read on infii. Posting just to say he will not contribute that much day one because there is not enough information is total BS, seems pretty scummy. Also infii does come across as pretty neutral. I don't get why you would want to stay neutral if you're townie. It is almost like being a townie but trying to hide. Townies should be fearless. Going to keep an eye on infii. Finally, some quick thoughts on reps. Sadly I think he is making a very poor case of why we should keep him around. Are we supposed to hope that he is going to get better as the game progresses? Like holy said, lets lynch him already. He is not an asset. If we are going to lynch anyone day one lets make it scummy scummy reps.
OMGIS OMGIS OMGIS how did I not see this before.
Why is this sad if he is scum?!??!!!
If I sincerely thought reps was scum and was pushing him at the time I'd have said more like:
"You guys stop being idiots we have scum being handed to us on a platter. Look at what he is doing, seriously. Lets see what we can gather from other folks, and i wrote that in case he will turn out town."
Or, a little softer:
"Look, I reps can't hide his own scum game being lynched will show that he should check for errors in his play, but seriously. We are playing to win, and reps has fortunately slipped around so much that he has basically made it indefensible for himself because he's scum."
But I remember the context, people were already set for lynching for info. It's just that this betrays him willing to continue despite practically (I think actually) knowing reps to be town... He did not switch to scam like I did, and Umasi why didn't you, but whatever post game chat unless it is relevant.
Please still point out flaws with my reasoning!
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On August 09 2013 13:51 Umasi wrote:
yeah, if he comes in and posts thoughts on filters, I'll be happy!
And if not, well darn!
you've mentioned frequently that you thought you were going to die, and you haven't been posting them REGARDLESS (and I am a fan of them) but it's not the biggest deal.
I was probably saying thought I might.
What is wrong with my reasoning?
Point out flaws! Act like deus defense lawyer, then I can get to bottom easier. If you find zero flaws and deus comes back and finds a bunch, what does that imply so...
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Wow O-O
10 pm I have to be up by 6 ToT
I was getting somewhere but did not read Umasi,
Stuff I was awed by as town was also in deus filter
Dang it
I need to read Umasi filter so in the meantime unvotes
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so you think there's a mentality breach? I think it might be a bit of a stretch, and any town would want someone who might be town to speak up in a pro-town way, but I can definitely see where you're coming from.
deus
On August 07 2013 14:39 DeusXmachina wrote:
Hey I went through RDO's filter again with the intention of counting the number of times he either defends himself, plays the newb card, and gives excuses.
I came to these counts:
Defends himself: 12 times
Plays newb card: 4 times
Gives excuses: 3 times
Sometimes they are really subtle and easy to miss. Those counts are not 100 percent accurate. It is also worth mentioning that he apologizes a ton.
Here are some great examples:
1. We haven't seen a ton of substance from you yet (oh yes I'm totally a hypocrite): Newb card
2. My main point is I think he's just a bad player who has no clue what the hell he's doing. Like me!!!: Newb card
3. just a couple of hours after I really started playing last night: defends himself
4. As you can see I've been trying to pick up my posting in the past couple of pages. Started slow obviously. Newb and also kinda defense
5. As a note to all parties, I will be offline from now until tomorrow evening again...so ask any last questions about my innocence within the next fifteen minutes or hang on to them for a while.: defends himself
6. That's part of it for sure...I also was busy with work, and this is my first game, so I'm just getting into it. : WOW excuse, noob, and defends himself
7. I'm new to this game too, I'm not going to play it perfectly. But I'm going to play the damn thing now, not just sit on my hands.: Newb
8. FUCK. I was at the card shop for a magic sealed event and my phone died, which is why I couldn't switch when we went for gotard. Sorry guys, yes that looks scummy as hell.: Excuse and preemptively defending himself.
Wow maybe there was more newb cards then I thought.
Also he drops the Umasi suspicion before the lynch and doesn't vote switch. Ill brb with that info.
On August 07 2013 14:44 DeusXmachina wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2013 04:07 RDaneelOlivaw wrote:
Gotard's vote totally fucked up where I thought this game was going....so much for them working together like it seemed imo. Time to reevaluate.
My suspicions remain on usami for now, but I'm going to go back and do some reevaluating
,
I think scam just doesn't give a fuck. If you look at this post history you can see he's been on TL a lot fairly recently, if he we're mafia he'd probably be getting a lot of pressure from his team to post. Still hard to tell though obviously since he's done nothing. He doesn't seem to responding to the pressure he's gotten, so there more's not much we can do
Anyway, more to come This is really bizarre. He is suspicious of an Umasi/Gotard pair. Before this he made a pretty convincing case against Gotard (convincing in that it seemed genuine) declaring that he thought Gotrad was scum. Gotard votes Umasi and RDO doesn't vote switch? What!? A huge part of his suspicion of Umasi was because of his scum read on Gotard. Why would he not vote Gotard when the pair distanced themselves.
On August 07 2013 14:46 DeusXmachina wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2013 23:09 RDaneelOlivaw wrote:
Umasi's done a ok job of defending himself imo, agree with you on that slam. Pressure successful. Gotard next.
Would you mind cutting down on the random stuff in your posts slam? Makes it harder to go through the thread yo. You're a solid town read and its just your style, but burying the thread in fluff helps the scum anyway by diluting the useful info
My reads thus far
Slam- town -
Stim and infii -town- I'm accepting the mason act for now, still a little suspicious of that early behavior from stim but w/e - infii seems like a lock to me, so stim by extension
Zyree- mild town read off of him, but now he's stopped posting...I'll give him a little more time but thats scummy if it continues
nightcat-not a lot of great posts, but he does seem to be trying to build a pro-town atmosphere. Good enough for me atm
scam- god knows what he is. May he rot in a particularly scummy mafia hell
Umasi- scum by extension--more suspicious of him because of Gotard and Deus- still just have a scummy feel from him
Gotard- scum- my reasoning hasn't changed
Deus- scummy--mostly because of the way he handled his "suspicions" of umasi - he stated that he suspected him several times throughout the early game but never elaborated on that suspicion--basically, enough to make me think that the suspicion may only be a show...his reasoning for dropping it, as zyree pointed out, is very weak. And then this. Last post before lynch. He claims he is going to move on from Umasi to Gotard but doesn't vote switch. Why would he not vote switch at this very moment? Totes scum. I think we nailed him.
What did you hope to accomplish with those posts, since RDO was already on the chopping block pretty securely?
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Basically slam, there is no good reason for him to be sad about lynching someone he thinks he's scum, but it's not condemning. You and I both talk out of our asses frequently
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Ok- and what about deus receiving FoS from zyrre and he dies next night?
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FAUGH 1017
I needs sleeps. Set my alarms but that is that, goodnight.
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remember, zyrre died because nightcat vig shot
nightnight
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On August 09 2013 13:22 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 04:51 DeusXmachina wrote:On August 05 2013 04:50 Umasi wrote:
Slow down there deus, it's not set in stone gotard would flip scum. Zyrre holding out like a retard is similar to what I did, except I had to afk immediately afterward. Admittedly, this time during lynch period is really shaking my views of him, and if gotard flips scum I'll reconsider my read on Zyrre.
Someone needs to fucking vote swap dammit. No don't worry Umasi. Gotard vote swapped himself. ^^ see am I only contradictory person in thread? No.
I was being sarcastic
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....................................................................................Umasi..........................................................................................
Allignment: Town
Overview:
1. Contributes and offers new ideas
2. Does not actively try to blend in
3. Has taken strong stances, points fingers, and has not been indecisive
4. Voting patterns
1. Contributes
Throughout this game Umasi has been legitimately contributing and posting new ideas. For example, Umasi was the first person to suspect me because of my early aggression on reps. In this post he expresses his suspicion and backs up his claim with reasons. As the game progressed he made other contributions. He was one of the first ones to make a case against infii, and he was the main advocate of lynching scam. He eventually moved on to Gotard here. Yes, he was not the first one to join the debate but his Gotard post did offer some new ideas and brought up key points.
In addition, Umasi has been doing night posts. He has been taking the time to look into everyone and post town reads or scum reads. Finally, He was one of the main contributors on the case against Zyrre and RDO.
2. Does not actively try to blend in
This is one of my main reasons for dropping suspicion on Umasi earlier in this game. His vote switch (more on that later) risked a potential no-lynch. This is NOT a scum thing to do. Umasi came under fire because of his vote switch and that is the last thing scum would want. Again, like I talked about in the previous paragraphs, Umasi has contributed new ideas and taken strong stances (more on that later). Strong stances made him stick out. He was very vocal about lynching scam and stuck to his guns for a long time on infii. Furthermore, members of this game thought Umasi was mafia due to his association with Gotard. Again, this did not help Umasi blend in. Why would a scum make a strong connection with someone who is suspected of being scum?
3. Points fingers, Strong Stances, and Decisive
As you are beginning to see, a lot of these ideas go together, but each of them are unique in their own right. The culmination of all these factors is why I do not suspect that Umasi is the final scum. He takes strong stances. Great examples of this are his infii stance, his scam stance, and later in the game his RDO and Zyrre stances. He does not back down and is not easily swayed. Look at how long it took him to be convinced that Infii was town. He is decisive. Now it is easy to say well his vote switch was not a decisive thing to do. However, quite the contrary. A great example of this IS his reps vote switch. He made up his mind (reps is not scum) switched his vote with the best intentions of town in mind and stuck with it.
4. Voting
The reps vote switch was not a scummy thing to do. He voted against scam at one point and voted pretty early against Gotard. Finally, he was one of the first ones to vote against Zyrre and RDO, and was the first one to make a vote in this final day. His voting patterns are consistent with his play style and reads (exemplifies his decisiveness and strong stances).
For these reasons I DO NOT believe that Umasi is the final scum. To reiterate he has contributed with logical thought out ideas, he has been active and has not blended in. Umasi has been decisive, he has taken strong stances, and his voting patterns reflect this.
At this point in time I am convinced that Slam is the final scum. Stim, if you read this post hopefully it convinces you (if you need convincing) that Umasi is not the final scum. A lot of these points that I addressed are from the General Guide to Mafia. Before I even started looking at Umasi's filter I went in unbiased analyzing his posts from a scum perspective and town perspective. It became evident that he was not acting like a scum. This leads me to my next post. I will be filter diving Slam and looking at similar key scum factors. If you would like me to elaborate or offer more examples on any of the key points that I brought up let me know.
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....................................................................................Alakaslam...................................................................................
Over the next day and a half I plan to work on convincing the rest of you guys that Slam is scum. In order to do this I will elaborate on the points I discuss tonight as well as offer more examples of what I am talking about. This serves as a introduction to what we should all explore in the next couple days. Lets begin.
Allignment: Scum
Overview:
1. Weak contributor and does not offer new ideas
2. Blends in with town
3. Does not take strong stances and is indecisive
4. Voting patterns
These actions are all scummy. As you may have noticed I am arguing the opposite points as I brought up on Umasi. I aim to prove that Slam is the last scum. If you would like me to elaborate on any of these points or offer more examples let me know. For the record I read all of slam's filter.
1. Contributions? Hardly
Slam has been playing a game of deception. It is almost astonishing to think about, but he IS the last Scum. Well why is it astonishing you ask? Simple. His massive amounts of posts have fooled everyone. He made it seem like he was contributing all the while in that 20 page filter of his was absolutely nothing of value. I implore you to look at how often he simply quotes something, offers nothing of value after the quote, and moves on. This is his first noteworthy post. Guys this is on filter page 13 and he started the game on 3. He went 10 fucking pages without contributing a damn. He slid through the ENTIRE reps lynch without offering anything. He frequently says things like "DEFEND YOURSELF". What does that offer? So often he quotes and says something stupid afterwards. What does THAT offer? Absolutely nothing. (Sidenote: there is so many examples of this stuff that I am not going to put them here. Please read his filter to see what I am talking about. Like I said I will happily generate specifics to make my point. This is just the beginning.) He votes Gotard but give almost no reason why. He does not make a strong stance against Gotard to explain his vote. Not only that but he is extremely indecisive over his Gotard vote (more on that later). Finally he does not contribute to the Zyrre discussion, and he does not contribute to the RDO discussion. In his 20 page filter he maybe has less 2 or 3 valuable posts.
2. Blends in with the town?
How obvious is this now that we are all thinking about it. The only thing that sets Slam apart is his wacky posts. But slam has gone completely uncontested, unnoticed. He has masterfully faked contribution. He has overloaded us with posts. He has bandwagoned on all of his votes and decisions. All for what? To appear town. It is clear to me now that Slam has been merely blending in. I think the reason so many of us overlooked it was because of his wacky posts. Slam never stickes himself out there. Has he ever been the first to take a stance against someone? NO. Has he ever been the first one to contribute new ideas? NO. Has he ever stuck his neck out there, had some really controversial opinions? NO NO and NO. He has been blending in this entire game.
3. Indecisive must be his middle name
Slam is very indecisive. IF you don't see this as a scummy thing go read part of the General Guide to Mafia. The best example of this is his vote against Gotard. He votes Gotard, unvotes, votes Umasi, unvotes, and finally votes Gotard again. Same thing with reps. Votes me, unvotes me, votes reps, unvotes reps, votes scam unvotes scam, votes reps. Look how indecisive this guy is being! It is absolutely ludacris. It goes to show that he is not taking strong stances against anyone. Slam has not taken a strong stance on anyone (p.s I know these transitions are painful, but who gives a fuck. I am not writing an essay here). Seriously! Go find me one example of a strong stance? He has none. He didn't have a good case against me (lol at the kenpachi rule), he didn't have a strong case against reps, he didn't have a strong case against Gotard, or Scam, or RDO, or Zyrre, or ... You get the point. NOBODY! He doesn't take a strong stance against ANYONE. More examples of this to come. A great example of his indecision is when he talks about reps in some of his posts.
4. Voting patters
I have already talked about this prior to this paragraph but let me summarize why his voting patterns are weird. He switches his vote a lot. He is one of the last ones to vote reps. He tags along with almost all of his other votes. Votes Gotard again after unvoting him. Votes RDO and Zyrre after others voted against them. His voting patterns exemplify his indecision.
I think there is a lot more that can be said about Slam. HE IS THE FINAL SCUM. If you don't believe me now I will spend the next day and half trying to convince you. I only wish I would have realized this earlier. Like I said, I can give a lot of examples when we get deeper into this discussion.
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EPT
