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Ignore last comment, forgot role is revealed on death so we could just go off reads if they die prematurely.
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On July 16 2013 09:58 hzflank wrote:
So you suddenly think I am scum because I caught your slip?
If you think that's a slip, I guess that's your right. I thought you were a better player, so the more reasonable explanation to me at this point is that you're the SK (omg you slipped because you knew it was SK and not vig after the kill) or scum than town.
Although it looks like Onegu is going to be in full tunnel mode despite the obvious flaws in his train-of-thought during the downtime.
On July 15 2013 10:13 Onegu wrote:Sorry hope you guus dont mind if I post as I go, some of it may have been addressed already but I want to give my take like it just happend. I would have been all over the stim lynch. I really want to lynch all liars. Then hurricane says Show nested quote +Immediately, the first thing I thought of was that there is no way in hell the scum QT would let him continue ranting and raving like this. They would have told him immediately to chill out and claim he was joking too, or something. Bolding because this is the first real revelation I've had on this case. There is no way you can know this my first game sometimes I would ask a question and not get a reponse for hours, so there is no way you should ever make this assumption.
It was unique analysis that I was bringing to the table. I would assume scum would be very active in the early stages of the game, laying plans and setting out to plot our demise. I don't think it's unreasonable to speculate in this manner, especially considering Onegu can confirm that I was right in my read (StiM / Onegu is not scum). At the least it's independent analysis and a null read. I'm actually pretty proud of that point.
On July 15 2013 11:04 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 03:21 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 17:01 Umasi wrote:
why is me thinking he's slightly towny a big deal though? I wouldn't say it's a big deal. I just wanted to see what evidence you had gathered to make your read, because it's useful for the town if you can help us identify Chrom as town. @Chrom: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 19:17 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +@Chrom: Can you explain what this post means? On July 13 2013 13:23 Chromatically wrote:
If everyone who just randomly popped out to soft call me sum could actually give their opinions on the situation, that'd be great. I also have a nitpick with this post: On July 13 2013 14:04 Chromatically wrote:
Yes, we'll technically never be able to totally disprove the possibility that Stim is town. It's just far less likely. Look at what Stim has done.
Lie about his anger
Town motivation: none
Scum motivation: screwed up the explanation because the anger was faked in the first place
Martyr
Town motivation: none, far more likely that he just explains
Scum motivation: knows he can't explain, so he acts emotional to get people to switch I feel like the anger was definitely real, and StiM was trying play play Mr. Cool Cat by claiming that he was really in control the whole time, and just pretended to be angry. Still not clear what that motivation could have been, but the above 2x2 leaves out some key points and I feel you're making a bit more assumptions that you usually do... Several people suddenly posted to tell Stim that I could be scum, and then didn't actually give an opinion on Stim. It was really wierd. You've brought up this same idea a few times about Stim trying to "act cool", but I don't see any particular reason to believe it. Why do you? As I've said before, there will always be a possibility of a town explanation, it's just less likely. If Stim is town, he'll return with a clear explanation. If you want to bring up meta, town should have lynched Stim in XLII. He could have easily been scum, and I said as much in the obs. A more convincing point is that Stim never reacted this way to pressure in XLIII, even though several votes were thrown on him over the course (if I remember). Hypothetical: If Stim doesn't return, what will you do? If Stim hadn't have returned, I'd probably drop the issue entirely and focus my efforts elsewhere, anticipating a /replacement or mod action. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2013 19:28 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 16:29 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 16:02 Umasi wrote:
Alright, here, hurricane. Who do you think is worth voting at this time?
From your post, I got the gist that it'd be Superfluous or me. Is that correct? I'm still a bit mad at StiM for his post implying that it was our job to keep him entertained. I'm going to give myself some time to cool off on that, because I don't appreciate people quitting on my team (if he is in fact town). This is a time investment for everybody, and it's damn selfish of him to pack up his ball and go home after really light pressure. Townville: Kirby pressured me appropriately after my opener. I like that. He also seems to have the same attitude as me regarding the quick StiMwagon: On July 13 2013 13:31 jrkirby wrote:
2 votes land on a guy is quick succession, I'd be stupid if I weren't at least a BIT suspicious. As far as I can tell, stim is just acting like a bit of an idiot, is flustered, and frustrated. Doesn't seem like scumtell to me. You're free to have your vote, and I don't have a solid scumread on either of you, but I will be looking a bit more closely at your filters. hz is aggressively posting reads and seems to emulate my thoughts on the early Superfluous post: On July 13 2013 09:42 hzflank wrote:I think Jrkirby's and Sponge's opening posts had the same motivation: to get discussion moving. Both have done this and we have multiple discussions taking place. Since then, Sponge did a little coaching. Sponge has come under pressure from multiple people (for his opening post), and has dealt with it while being reasonably open. The only time that he has not been open is by refusing to post the other version of his opening post. Sponge did a little coaching again as he tried to stop Umasi from defending him. So far my read on Sponge has moved very slightly towards town. Since his opening, Jrkirby has attacked Sponge for his opening post, and done nothing else. That's fine because it is early and Jrkirby is pushing to get a reaction from someone. This is not scummy to me, null read. Umasi has defended Hurricane, which cannot be viewed as scummy at this point. Umasi has attacked Superfluous. I would say that this attack could be scummy as it is based on nothing, but it could just be to get Super to post more (he only has one post). Umasi then repeats that he thinks Super's post is scummy and votes for him. The problem I have with this is that Umasi claims Super's only post was scummy, when I do not think that it was. On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. If Umasi was looking for a reaction then I do not understand why he posted: On July 13 2013 08:59 Umasi wrote:
Where the hell are you. You popped in, gave a single post, that I think is scummy as crap, still haven't show back up. Pretty confusing, because the post you gave was irrelevant. How was Super's post scummy as crap? I do not think that Umasi is looking for scum, and if he is not just fishing for Super to respond then I think that Umasi is just looking for a neutral place to put his early vote. Unlike Jrkirby's, Umasi's vote is not a troll vote. I have a slight scum read on Umasi. Xzavier posted some decent thoughts (although he really didn't go out on any limbs): On July 13 2013 11:19 Xzavier wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote:
While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on. i know usami has touched on this, but i see voting for No-lynch is like sacrificing a townie or playing russian roullet for zero prize money. its just basically saying "i want to start this game a townie down" it seems silly to me, if somebody comes and gives me an ungodly reason for no-lynching ill hear it. but i see it as silly. Also from playing with usami before, hes a super fucking hyper aggressive person who needs like a single post to tunnel somebody for a full day, that can be bad. we need to keep our eyes open and looking at multiple people. As i learned my first game, a tunnel vision day1 can lead to a mislynch, or in this gametype, a no-lynch. Its far better to lynch scum, and thats what we should try to do. Even day1 we lynch either a lurker or our top scumread, if nobody has any strong scumreads, lynching the scummiest lurker is the best townplay day1. (it yields the highest chance of killing scum while creating the best pro-town enviroment) with that im also shocked of how active stim-addict is being. its nice to see a usual lurker picking it up leaving less for the scum to hide behind :D again, even Superfluous is at the top of my scumdar, he isnt high enough to deserve a vote yet. I want to lynch a lurker or superfluous depending on how he reacts to our posts and the events of the day. if the rest of it goes uneventful/no major scumslips i want to fuck up a lurker as i believe that to be the best pro-town action. Rainbows is active and is claiming credit for the StiM wagon. If StiM is town, as I suspect, I don't think scum would be claiming lead on an eventual green flip: On July 13 2013 15:43 Rainbows wrote:
Sponge, I started the whole Stim thing. Chrom just questioned both of us then pooped all over him with it :p Planet Neutral:I've found confusing material on Chrom that some may deem scummy (misrepresenting facts, leaping to conclusions, overblowing alignment-neutral mistakes). However, he also did his usual early game Poke'n'Prod, getting people to clarify their random claims that might otherwise have gone unchecked (very town). Umasi is incredibly active, and hunting. The logic leaps, confirmation bias, and clumsy attacks aren't really helping the town, however (other than to just provide really obvious pressure). If there was a shade between Green and Black, I'd use it because I think the three options for Umasi are 'Bad Town' 'Good Scum' and 'Good Town That I Just Have Trouble Reading For Whatever Reason'. Scum Central:Superfluous has a lot of ground to make up. I don't like people attacking him for his bad policy, but at the end of the day, that's not the only thing going against him. I really disagree with his reads, and that has to account for something: On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo. These are some wierd-ass wierd reads (formatted in a list, might I add...). You give town reads to a large number of people based on almost nothing? You say that me and Umasi are actively scumhunting, and then say we're null? All followed by a sheep on Super while waiting to commit to Stim. It all feels really odd. Why is xzavier more townie then Umasi/me? Why did you post town reads in the first place? I'm surprised you do not agree with my reads. I shall re-evaluate them. You are Neutral to me for the reasons I mentioned: while you and Umasi are scumhunting (+), I believe you're doing it in an anti-town manner (-). That is: making logical leaps, confirmation bias, poor analysis. Scum can scumhunt too, and that's exactly how I imagine they'd do it. I also don't feel like I'm sheeping Superfluous. I raised some independent analysis regarding him in my earlier post (centering on the fact that our reads are very different, signifying a disconnect from my own POV that is significant enough to be Town-Scum). Are there any other glaring mistakes in particular you'd like to hear my thoughts on? On July 13 2013 19:37 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 15:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 15:43 Rainbows wrote:
Sponge, I started the whole Stim thing. Chrom just questioned both of us then pooped all over him with it :p Chrom has made a couple missteps that I would consider 'uncharacteristic'. At the very least, they are poor play I did not expect from him. 1. His enthusiasm to lynch StiM after the blow-up (surely we can all see that it was more likely immature and pissy play from StiM and alignment-independent) contained logical leaks and overblows the importance of whether StiM lied about being mad or not. 2. Saying Superfluous was trying to not 'make waves' when he was the lone voice speaking up for an unpopular policy (Day 1 No Lynch) More importantly, when viewed as a whole, the bolded section above is a big stop sign on my vote to lynch StiM: Why would scum not alert StiM that everyone and their mother knew the jokepost was a joke and let him carry on in this manner? He'd have to be willfully disobeying his team, or (more likely) flying solo. If someone can give me a satisfactory answer to that, I'd feel much better about a StiM lynch. 1) You seem confident that Stim's blowup was alignment independent, can you address my earlier posts about why it's more likely from scum? I think it's pretty hard to overblow the importance of someone lying about their motivation without being able to explain it. You disagree? 2) The apologetic tone is the entire reason why Super looks bad. He's trying not to draw attention to himself and not to incite anyone (scummy). The Nolynch thing is totally non alignment indicative, which you should know. Explain your scumread on Super more. On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 10:49 StiMaDDict wrote:
I may be biased but I put Chromatically as the most capable scumhunter. In last game, he pretty much had the whole scum team Day1. It goes without saying that I do not Chromatically's alignment as of right now.
@Chromatically Your current scum reads? Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. On July 13 2013 10:05 Superfluous wrote:On July 13 2013 09:55 Umasi wrote:
Superfluous, do you have any current scum reads? At the moment no, as I said I was gone for a couple hours then came back and just skimmed through the thread . I mean to go through it again in more detail once I'm finished defending myself or w/e. Two things are on my mind though. One is that I think you are town (not just to suck up to you b/c you are pressuring me). Reasons being that in my personal experience those who are most aggressive are generally town, and also that this is a semi-noob game so I'm unsure if a mafia would have the confidence to go out and control the game/ put pressure on early on. Another thing is that I dont think I've seen much (if anything) from Cloud 9. He may be in same situation as me and I'll give him Benefit of the doubt though. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo. I really don't like that last part where he gives one lurker the FoS, but a second one a free pass in the same post. I don't like that his reads seem diametrically opposed to mine, which implies a significant difference in frame-of-reference. I don't like his case on HZ (which is a case in name only). I don't like that he's suspicious of townies who enter the thread willing to lynch. On July 13 2013 21:48 Chromatically wrote:
Sponge, could you also elaborate on you Umasi read? As I told Umasi late last night when we were the only two in the thread, I love his scumhunting, but I cringe at his methods. He's got a big problem with confirmation bias and attacking his target when he should just be poking, bringing the level of discourse down into the mud too soon. Like I said in the earlier post, I think he's Green-Black: Bad Town, Good Scum, or Good Town That I Just Can't Read. The early game aggression is much preferred to the alternative (lurking), but if he keeps some of these traits up into the late game, I'm worried for town. Moving on: On July 13 2013 21:54 Koshi wrote:I am from Belgium guys, This game started at 12PM and I was tired after a working week. I read the thread once now and my initial (this is without using filters, just reading all the posts) is that H.Sponge build enough town kred to not get lynched day 1 no matter what. I loved his opening post, and I loved his defense on that post. Even if he is scum, he has been very helpful to town, and every town should go and read that opening post. Scum reads are on Umasi and Chroma. Umasi because his entire early posts were just sucking up to H.Sponge, which is just not useful at all, H. Sponge clearly doesn't need to be defended like this. Another thing I dont like about Umasi is him trying to redirect the thread twice for a Superfluous train on a rather useless moment. Superfluous entered the thread with a bad post, but went afk after, which is not a clear scumread. Not enough the get a train going, and make the rest of the day useless. Chroma is currently tunneling so heavily on StiMaDDict. The guy is afk, treat him as an afk bad town till he comes back. It is a good thing to spark some conversation around StiMaDDict, but at this point I feel that Chroma is derailing more than necessarily. It's just tunneling into oblivion. I start filtering now: Reading Chroma his filter I get a serious scum vibe. Post like this: On July 13 2013 11:39 Chromatically wrote:
Also just noticed that Sponge hasn't given a single opinion on anyone all game after saying that he wanted people to judge him on his scumhunting, interesting. This is just being a jack-ass, at least it would be if you say things like this in real life. In mafia it is trying to put suspicion onto somebody without saying anything. I haven't crosschecked this message with the referring Sponge message but it feels dirty. What was your intention while typing this down Chromo? @ Chromo, Do you agree that this is a very suspicious post? And explain to me why it is "interesting" that Sponge likes to have interaction on his scumreads while playing this game? Reading Umasi his filter after the Chroma filter makes me want to lynch one of these 2 guys. Umasi and Chroma are either bromancing it up on the stimaddict lynch, or they are both scum. Here is Umasi his game till now: --> Defend Sponge while pushing lynch on Superfluous. --> Argue with Sponge about Chroma while pusing a lynch on StiMaDDict. I hate Umasi and Chrom as lynch targets for Day 1. Town does not want to lynch guys this active and scumhunting this hard. Regardless of the fact that I think Superfluous is scummier at this point, I'd push for a Lurker lynch over one of either of Umasi or Chrom. ---------------- Current Events: I think StiM's case on Kirby is weak. Lots of fallacies in there. Everything quoted is interpreted single-mindedly as scum, and even the stuff that's pro town is justified as 'this is clearly scum trying to look town'. Please re read this post. He doesnt like someone because they have a different POV. Italso seems like he wants people to be with his scumhunting methods.
Early in the game, someone having vastly disparate reads from you is noticeable. I think that's reasonable suspicion. The second part of your concern doesn't really make sense. Maybe you can elaborate.
On July 15 2013 14:47 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:30 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 07:26 Rainbows wrote:
Acceptable yes. Im really unsure of who to vote but super seems best imo.
Both might be town. You mentioned that, and that's why this is sort of an unholy alliance. Even though the odds are staggeringly in your favor, I would actually be more inclined to believe they were both scum rather than both town. I feel like I have a decent eye for town-on-town crime, although to be fair, kirby and super haven't been sniping at each other NEARLY enough for my taste. Regardless, this is good news. Now we just need Umasi to confirm he finds both players scummy, and we can decide this lynch. This just seems like you are setting your self up that no matter the flip you dont get heat.
I honestly don't know what Onegu is reading. So I'm not allowed to update my reads as people post more content? Onegu is in full confirmation bias mode now.
On July 15 2013 14:49 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:24 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@ Umasi
@ Rainbows
We three control this lynch. I think everyone else is entrenched (via either conviction or inactivity). If you agree, we need to establish some things between the three of us.
First, do we all agree that both of the current wagons are acceptable lynch candidates? Here you make sure 100% that the wagons stay exacty the same there will be one of these 2 town lynched.
Here, you look silly because I tried to orchestrate an off-man lurker lynch late in day 1, proving this point completely false.
On July 15 2013 15:57 Onegu wrote:
Scumteam
Hurricane
Koshi
Rainbow/gotard
I am really confidant in my hurricane read btw, he made sure he led the council and could make sure we never got off a town/town bandwagon. Alot of his posts just seem like he wants town cred, unlike last game.
I didn't know it was a town/town bandwagon, and at the end actually tried to get a Gotard lynch with the votes we'd accumulated. Read the thread. Also, I've openly refused town cred for posts that I don't think deserved it (first one).
On July 15 2013 19:16 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 18:50 Gotard wrote:Hi Onegu. Nice to see ya! Chromatically - For me he looks more like a town that mafia. He tends to put himself in a headlights by creating wagons and defending them really strongly with no fear (but sometimes he's tunneling himself like when he was pressuring Stim). In 'The Super Case' he brought good points and made some more room for discussion. Would he make such a strong defense to save his scum buddy? I don't thing so because after Super flipping scum he would be in a big trouble. Pushing lynch isn't scummy if you have good points and your target barely shows and signs of life innocence. On July 15 2013 15:57 Onegu wrote:
Scumteam
Hurricane
Koshi
Rainbow/gotard
I am really confidant in my hurricane read btw, he made sure he led the council and could make sure we never got off a town/town bandwagon. Alot of his posts just seem like he wants town cred, unlike last game. Hurricane ensured lynch that day. Everyone agreed that both of them are super scummy. I think leadership like that is useful when you need majority to lynch. His posts are super pro town in general and leading town like that even in wrong direction isn't scummy to me. Koshi - reading comprehension... I will address him later after reading his filter. I will say this it is hard for me to be objective since I already knew there was a mislynch, but I tried my best, but you are right he made sure there was a lynch, but he made sure to focus on those two and didnt let it drift away, if he is scum he knows it is a town town bandwagon it doesnt matter he ensures a lynch as long as he ensures it on one of them, which is what he did.
Again, Onegu hammering the point that I was holding the town hostage on a town/town lynch when in reality, I tried to get a 3rd party lynch going once we had the votes for it. Umasi and StiM actually put the axe to my idea of moving off the two candidates. And as we know... StiM is actually Gotard...
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And as we know... StiM is actually Gotard...
???? what does that mean
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On July 15 2013 08:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
DOUBLE SECRET TRIBUNAL MEETING
Attn: If you are not part of the Incredible Tribunal For Make Great Benefit Lynching Daily, you must stop reading this post now and cover your eyes.
Alright, now that all the legit folks are in here, I think we've gotten some useful information. We've confirmed that we control 4 mobile votes today (this may change in the future). Sponge, Umasi, Rainbows, Nightcat.
In addition, we have two semi-mobile votes in Chromatically (probably) and hzflank (maybe probably), both unconfirmed however. We could go after the scummiest Other. The more I think about Rainbow's 'town-town' claim, the more it seems like a possibility. I'm still leaning Super as scummiest, but we can talk about that after I get thoughts on the following play:
We could totally drop Gotard or Koshi tonight if we wanted.
Koshi is in the 'too scum to be scum' category for me right now. Gonna dive his filter. Gotard is gotard. For right now, I want tribunal thoughts on this play.
You mean this post, and then you get off of gotard 2 posts later in your filter without makeing a case? Besides gotard is gotard, what does that even mean?
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And it was LATE day 1 when it is almost impossible/ to risky to move votes to gotard. Ok will post my full case in a bit, will be off for a while now.
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On July 16 2013 10:00 Xzavier wrote:
well shit 2 of my 3 top scumreads just died, leaving 1 alone at the top:
sup super.
##VOTE SUPERFLUOUS
this will be removed once you start some LIGIT scumhunting none of that "vote for one guy, make a case on another guy" bullshits okay?
if i dont think youve done an adequate job/you look more scummy as the day goes on expect this to stay, and a case to be made along with it.
I get the feeling you barely even know what you are saying. It's like you see when other people raise criticisms of me then copy them exactly. Also, it feels SO SCUMMY that you and Umasi are so quick to vote an hour into the day. Don't forget that after the jkirby lynch a decent amount of town said that they felt it was too easy and a town-town lynch, including rainbows who is dead and proved town.
I'd also like to go back on what I said about umasi. Generally I feel it is a good, pro-town move to put pressure on people and get info from them. On day one he pushed me and jrkirby and it didn't work out. Now that's not the worst thing in the world, but then that he immediately goes back and puts pressure on me instead of forcing info/ reads from other people which is much more productive. It's fine that I'm his biggest scum read and he wants to vote for me, but why the rush to vote? It doesn't make him scum, but I don't feel he's clearly town anymore.
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what?
so your crazy last minute swich to gotard was a plan to lynch him????
it would be one thing if you asked everybody to swtich to gotard now and then made a case, but without even a case saying "lets all lynch him in the last momeny" thats something that i called you out on and you responded to correctly?
im really worried that your bringing it up now.
dont get me wrong i still think your town, but stop being so damn scum today!
my townread on you has gone down from "id eat my shirt if he flipped scum" to "your still more pro-town than everybody else"
stop before it falls further, please
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On July 16 2013 10:10 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
I thought you were a better player, so the more reasonable explanation to me at this point is that you're the SK (omg you slipped because you knew it was SK and not vig after the kill)
The setup information clearly shows that a Vig cannot shoot on night 1, and that scum only have 1 KP. I posted this immediately and either you did not read it or you are now lying.
On July 16 2013 09:29 hzflank wrote:
Vig cannot shoot night 1, read the setup info.
I knew that it had to be an SK as soon as I saw the second kill because that is knowledge that is available to town. You knew which target the scum did not shoot because that is knowledge that is available to scum.
Then you claim that I am scum and that I have been planning to lynch you all this time?
On July 16 2013 09:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
This is good. It looks like scum is taking Onegu's FoS and running with it.
Going to dive hz's filter now.
Even though we already had the conversation about Onegu's big problem with you.
On July 16 2013 04:58 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 04:45 hzflank wrote:On July 16 2013 01:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
I thought it was valuable for Town to control the lynch. I wanted to undermine the mafia's ability to switch votes at the last second.
That's fine, but also very risky on day 1. I had town reads on Umasi and Rainbows too, but I did not trust them. It might be worth discussing how to avoid this in future. For example, perhaps we could ask everyone to lock in their votes an hour before deadline, and no one is allowed to change as long as there is a majority. If there is not a majority then it gives us say 45 minutes to discuss it, and then we lock in a lynch with 15 minutes to go. Thoughts? This would be the ideal solution. I didn't see a majority at the time of the Tribunal's formation, so I decided to make a play to ensure there was a lynch. Your proposal is a better option.
You know that you just slipped and you are now trying to deflect the pressure. First by calling me scum, and when my filter did not look scummy you moved on to Onegu.
On July 16 2013 10:10 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Although it looks like Onegu is going to be in full tunnel mode despite the obvious flaws in his train-of-thought during the downtime.
The problem that I face now is that I have a one-point case. You (Sponge) and me are going to end up repeating ourselves over and over. Therefore I ask:
Does anyone else think that Sponge made a scumslip here?
On July 16 2013 09:29 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Koshi looked scummy to a lot of people. I imagine some hero vig tried to make big plays.
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On July 16 2013 10:20 Superfluous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 10:00 Xzavier wrote:
well shit 2 of my 3 top scumreads just died, leaving 1 alone at the top:
sup super.
##VOTE SUPERFLUOUS
this will be removed once you start some LIGIT scumhunting none of that "vote for one guy, make a case on another guy" bullshits okay?
if i dont think youve done an adequate job/you look more scummy as the day goes on expect this to stay, and a case to be made along with it. I get the feeling you barely even know what you are saying. It's like you see when other people raise criticisms of me then copy them exactly. Also, it feels SO SCUMMY that you and Umasi are so quick to vote an hour into the day. Don't forget that after the jkirby lynch a decent amount of town said that they felt it was too easy and a town-town lynch, including rainbows who is dead and proved town. I'd also like to go back on what I said about umasi. Generally I feel it is a good, pro-town move to put pressure on people and get info from them. On day one he pushed me and jrkirby and it didn't work out. Now that's not the worst thing in the world, but then that he immediately goes back and puts pressure on me instead of forcing info/ reads from other people which is much more productive. It's fine that I'm his biggest scum read and he wants to vote for me, but why the rush to vote? It doesn't make him scum, but I don't feel he's clearly town anymore.
no. votes this early arnt looking for lynches, they are looking to motivate fellow possible scum/lurkers to be more god damn pro-town.
votes early in the day are generally pressure lynches.
fuck i told you what you had to do to get my vote off you.
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EBWOP: Pressure Votes, not pressure lynches
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On July 16 2013 10:06 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +Galactic Win Condition - Galactics win when they control the lynch or nothing can prevent that from happening. Scum has 1 KP. It is delivered factionally and cannot be roleblocked. Scum, with the exception of the Godfather, return Red to DT checks. What were you saying alakaslam?
WHERE WAS THIS I THOUGHT I HAD 10/10 VISION OR SOMETHING
I FAIL THE OP
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On July 16 2013 10:30 Chromatically wrote:
I was roleblocked.
Shit
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So does mafia have roleblocker Onegu?
(XD I will look worry not)
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On July 16 2013 10:32 Alakaslam wrote:Shit
why shit? this could be a jailkeeper or a scum roleblocker.
now im worried about you?
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Appears they may. However you may have been jailed too.
Hmm.
I actually don't think jailer should claim if he did, actually I don't know if it was wise to claim this Chrom. I don't know though, how does it help town?
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So Xzavier:
On July 16 2013 10:00 Xzavier wrote:
well shit 2 of my 3 top scumreads just died, leaving 1 alone at the top:
sup super.
##VOTE SUPERFLUOUS
this will be removed once you start some LIGIT scumhunting none of that "vote for one guy, make a case on another guy" bullshits okay?
if i dont think youve done an adequate job/you look more scummy as the day goes on expect this to stay, and a case to be made along with it.
Rainbows, Koshi, and Super were your top 3 scumreads, even though you never explain your reads on Koshi or Rainbows.
Then what is this?
On July 16 2013 07:03 Xzavier wrote:i remember asking people to check the Tribunal after it was just the three of them, what i mostly wanted to know was who tried to join them, nobody came out and directly said as such, but when the list of votes they controlled came out somebody knew was on the list: Nightcat, a hardcore lurker at the time. now he was not invited to join this team, i dont recall him asking to either, i just remember him following the wishes of it.(However indirectly as it may be) This blinks scummy on my scumdar. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 08:19 Nightcat99 wrote:can you make a case defending why you would not vote for JrKirby at this time?
Can you tell me why you think Superfluous is the better lynch target? no i cannot make a case to not vote for jrkirby because i stated that i want to make sure to have 1 person lynch, when i came back it seem super was the more likely target but since you guys disagree. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE JRKIRBY being given the option of switching his vote for a simple reason of "since you guys disagree" and not making a case or updating any reads is bad, because its a super easy for scum to hide without drawing any attention to himself. his entire reason for voting is "the person whos more likely to be lynched" thats a roundabout way of describing a scums voting pattern. they want to blend in and not stick out. So throwing his vote early and the person more likely to be lynched is a great way to lurk successfully.
My scumdar says Scum on nightcat right now______ now im happy with how hurricane reacted to me saying keep your circle small and that further solidifies my stupidly massive town read on him(sponge) (scum would want to try to control as many votes as possible, they would already control the "holes" in there town circle) so the people saying that one of the three is scum, its not him: The points brought up against rainbow has totally shattered the confidence of my town read on him, his actions are nonsensical. I think that Usami is town still as he has played a far more pro-town game and has cut out almost all of his spam (from games iv previously played with him) while i know meta is bad to use for a case in newbie games, but i feel like a scum wouldnt try so hard to improve his town play as they would replicate it. This is another reason for my Umasi read after all of that. if we are assuming scum tried to get one player onto the "tribunal" they were either succesful and got Rainbows on it, or used it as an excuse for nightcat to sheep his vote.
Are you expecting me to believe that you made a case on your FOURTH best scumread before making a case on ANY of the top three?
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On July 16 2013 10:36 Alakaslam wrote:
Appears they may. However you may have been jailed too.
Hmm.
I actually don't think jailer should claim if he did, actually I don't know if it was wise to claim this Chrom. I don't know though, how does it help town?
was this even a question?
fuck no the JK shoudlnt claim, thats stupid.
and yes chrom should have claimed, if nobody else claims they were roleblocked we now know that in this game there is atleast 1 of the following two, a town JK, or a scum RB.
If we get another roleblocked claim then we know we have both.
this helps town because this gives town more information.
having the JK claim gifts a power role to scum.
please stop
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On July 16 2013 10:38 Chromatically wrote:So Xzavier: Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 10:00 Xzavier wrote:
well shit 2 of my 3 top scumreads just died, leaving 1 alone at the top:
sup super.
##VOTE SUPERFLUOUS
this will be removed once you start some LIGIT scumhunting none of that "vote for one guy, make a case on another guy" bullshits okay?
if i dont think youve done an adequate job/you look more scummy as the day goes on expect this to stay, and a case to be made along with it. Rainbows, Koshi, and Super were your top 3 scumreads, even though you never explain your reads on Koshi or Rainbows. Then what is this? Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 07:03 Xzavier wrote:i remember asking people to check the Tribunal after it was just the three of them, what i mostly wanted to know was who tried to join them, nobody came out and directly said as such, but when the list of votes they controlled came out somebody knew was on the list: Nightcat, a hardcore lurker at the time. now he was not invited to join this team, i dont recall him asking to either, i just remember him following the wishes of it.(However indirectly as it may be) This blinks scummy on my scumdar. On July 15 2013 08:19 Nightcat99 wrote:can you make a case defending why you would not vote for JrKirby at this time?
Can you tell me why you think Superfluous is the better lynch target? no i cannot make a case to not vote for jrkirby because i stated that i want to make sure to have 1 person lynch, when i came back it seem super was the more likely target but since you guys disagree. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE JRKIRBY being given the option of switching his vote for a simple reason of "since you guys disagree" and not making a case or updating any reads is bad, because its a super easy for scum to hide without drawing any attention to himself. his entire reason for voting is "the person whos more likely to be lynched" thats a roundabout way of describing a scums voting pattern. they want to blend in and not stick out. So throwing his vote early and the person more likely to be lynched is a great way to lurk successfully.
My scumdar says Scum on nightcat right now______ now im happy with how hurricane reacted to me saying keep your circle small and that further solidifies my stupidly massive town read on him(sponge) (scum would want to try to control as many votes as possible, they would already control the "holes" in there town circle) so the people saying that one of the three is scum, its not him: The points brought up against rainbow has totally shattered the confidence of my town read on him, his actions are nonsensical. I think that Usami is town still as he has played a far more pro-town game and has cut out almost all of his spam (from games iv previously played with him) while i know meta is bad to use for a case in newbie games, but i feel like a scum wouldnt try so hard to improve his town play as they would replicate it. This is another reason for my Umasi read after all of that. if we are assuming scum tried to get one player onto the "tribunal" they were either succesful and got Rainbows on it, or used it as an excuse for nightcat to sheep his vote. Are you expecting me to believe that you made a case on your FOURTH best scumread before making a case on ANY of the top three?
How about i was BRINGING NEW INFORMATION to the table?
i saw somethign new, and i posted it because i dont think very many other people saw it. i dont think i ever said once in that that nightcat was my top scumread. just a scumread, i never actually put them in order, and that was my mistake
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Jailer def shouldn't claim.
You always claim RBs right after you get them because it helps solve the game (you can't trust claims at later points).
EX: One person is RBd each night, scum roleblocker is lynched ==> everyone roleblocked is practically confirmed town
EX: One person is RBd each night, on N3 no kill occurs and no one claims RB ==> jalier claims and lynches confirmed scum
EX: Two people are RBd each night ==> jailer can figure out who the scum RB is (what I did in XXXIII)
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EPT
