EPT2. He basically said rayn is scum and stutters is town through his posts although he didnt use those words.
Lol. He does not. He only attacks Rayns argument. That is NOT the same thing as saying he is scum and stutters is town.Basterd Mini Mafia - Page 18
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On July 01 2013 05:18 Oatsmaster wrote: 1. Agreeing with people isnt buddying. 2. He basically said rayn is scum and stutters is town through his posts although he didnt use those words. 3. Where? 4. He made a case on solstice that none of you bothered to say why its bad. 5. Or agrees with people 6. So Im scum for attacking rayn? Scum used the same argument, 'stopping town discussion', on me before. Its not true. 1. Correct. However agreeing with someone but then not voting them at all, not questioning them at all and then attacking someone else is buddying. 2. Yeah, why did he not vote for me, or never questioned me about anything? 3. There, above. 4. Because solstice questioned people he thought are scummy. How the fuck is this "reaching"? He thinks Vivax is scummy for what were fair reasons, i understand the Lazer reasons too. He is trying to shut down the discussion and painting it as a case on solstice, which is fucking scummy. 5. No, recycles, as he is not voting or questioning his scumreads. 6. I actually don't know any more. Normally i would say no you're not but the fact that you call solstice scum and JarJar is your best friend because he agreed with you on something makes me think again. Also you did still not tell how solstice's posts are bad or why Jarjar's posts are good. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Therefore JJD's posts are good. I have no clue what you mean by flipfloping and I have a different view to voting than you. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
4. He made a case on solstice that none of you bothered to say why its bad. On June 30 2013 14:01 JarJarDrinks wrote: is not a case in a million years. Sorry.My top scum suspect right now is s0Lstice. His entire first post + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2013 13:00 s0Lstice wrote: my inbox is evergreen lots of scummy shit happening right now, so let's get to work. this is the scummiest post in the thread so far: Look at the thought process here. Rayn seems sure there are not 2 millers in the game-->Rayn knows how many millers are in the game-->Rayn is scum. For this jump to be made, Stutters would have to think scum know how many millers are in the game to get a scummy vibe from Rayn. This makes zero sense. Can't wait to hear your answer on this one my dear stutters. Early town read on Rayn for diving on this. His reaction exactly matched mine. I don't agree at all with your town read on Lazer though, Rayn. Look at how much time he has spent on Marv's miller claim. You know how to deal with a miller claim? You ignore it. All it means is don't DT check the person and that's it. Figure out their alignment just like you would anybody else. The fact that he goes on and on about it looks to me not like he is trying to get at Marv's alignment, but rather he is feeling comfortable talking about a very safe topic in preference to anything of consequence. When he made this quote: ...there was plenty to talk about. Doesn't sit right with me. More, his conclusion from the discussion should be the public assertion that Marv is not 100% confirmed town. He mentions this, but hesitates to draw a line between scummy or wrong for the people who are saying otherwise (Rayn). Smells fishy. Vivax- What are you doing here? Passively flinging shit on a guy who is probably not here, and said activity would be light in the early going? Explain yourself. Explain this too while you're at it: Who gives a shit? Why are you so self-conscious? Anyway, little break now. More in just a bit. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
SO solstices points are good? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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JarJarDrinks
United States1302 Posts
On July 01 2013 05:25 Oatsmaster wrote: I would guess yes to both of these. Though S0lstice is my my top scumread right now.JJD is rayn scum and stutters town? | ||
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JarJarDrinks
United States1302 Posts
On June 30 2013 13:15 s0Lstice wrote: I mean. What is he trying to say here? How is what stutters was saying no reason @ all as opposed to bad reasoning?If it could in no way implicate Rayn as scum, why did Stutters suggest Rayn is scum? Do townies suggest people are scum without considering the reason behind why they are doing so? Townies call people scum for BAD reasons, yes, but no townie does it without any reason at all. This is what scum do. | ||
gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On July 01 2013 05:31 Oatsmaster wrote: Seriously you guys are fucking pedantic. How are we unimaginative or pedestrian? Also heres a flip flop. : Agree. I also think it's wierd that he's already twice called Lazer a townread. I'm not seeing why he'd think that based on what lazer's posted so far. You go after Lazer simply because he he spent time talking about marvs miller claim. How is that at all scummy? That's what the main subject of the thread was. He wasn't the only one talking about it. You say that there was plenty of other stuff to talk about. But there really wasn't @ that point. The miller stuff was pretty much all that was discussed yet. Hes abandone his suspicion of Lazer just so he can attack Solstice upon whom his scum read remains awful? Yeah nope. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
NICE JOB GUMSHOE. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Do you think that solstice is making good points? Why do you not seem to care what kind of points he makes? Or who he is talking about, just focusing on the fact that JJD is attacking someone who posted a wall of text. im outta here, too much. too much. | ||
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JarJarDrinks
United States1302 Posts
On July 01 2013 04:34 gumshoe wrote: So what if I was piggybacking off Oats's Rayne case? I happen to agree w/ it. Should I have not given my opinion about it instead? I wasn't attacking Lazer. I was saying that I found it odd that Rayn decided to call him a townread because I don't know why he thought that. I never said that Lazer was a scumread of mine. Just that I don't know why rayn would read him as town @ that point.Jar Jar Drinks's first post is essentially just him piggy backing off Oat's accusation of Rayne (who in turn was just recycling my initial analysis and presenting it as his own but with gusto) while simultaneously attacking Lazer without providing any reason why (he also associates them here as if they are in league, when in reality they're is no real proof connecting the two other than Wifom) he backs mine and Oat's assesment of Stutters maybe just being silly town, but doesn't comment on his long absence. His next "big" post attacks Solstice for commenting on the major matter at hand and for trying to pressure others. What really pisses me off though is this How is it not scum-hunting? It's a scum trait to not want to accuse people and to be afraid to give your opinion. He was going out of his way to let everyone know that he was gonna be accussing several people of being scummy. Like, just make your cases. I wasn't saying he was pompous at all. This is not scum hunting, this is him attacking Solstice's character, when all Sol has really done is try contribute his opinion on the miller incident(which he hadn't yet done) and try draw out responses while weeding out fluff. Also you dont even really accuse him of scum play, you effectively just say hes pompous, how is that scummy? | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On July 01 2013 05:56 Oatsmaster wrote: why is it awful? Do you think that solstice is making good points? Why do you not seem to care what kind of points he makes? Or who he is talking about, just focusing on the fact that JJD is attacking someone who posted a wall of text. im outta here, too much. too much. Dont leave yet ( : I think Solstice is fine, because hes attacking the content of the posts, not the posters, saying stuff like "I'm drunk so dont take me seriously" Is bullshit that shouldn't be immune to scrutiny, nor should fluff be in general, a fact most forget until they themselves want to attack it. Besides, not everything can be as important as the miller dillema, and other avenus are valued because whats important is the reactions and stances produced by the discussions. Jar Jar's reaction to Sols post is that he found him to be what, arrogant? how is that scummy? What Solstice's post produced wasn't so much the answers to his questions, but a chance to recognize scum jumping on an easy target in order to look as if they were contributing, in the regard he delivered in spades. Lastly, isn't it funny how Jar Jar's been gone all day then jumps in once the heat builds? Hes either actively not contributing or someone gave him a heads up  . | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On July 01 2013 06:12 JarJarDrinks wrote: So what if I was piggybacking off Oats's Rayne case? I happen to agree w/ it. Should I have not given my opinion about it instead? I wasn't attacking Lazer. I was saying that I found it odd that Rayn decided to call him a townread because I don't know why he thought that. I never said that Lazer was a scumread of mine. Just that I don't know why rayn would read him as town @ that point. How is it not scum-hunting? It's a scum trait to not want to accuse people and to be afraid to give your opinion. He was going out of his way to let everyone know that he was gonna be accussing several people of being scummy. Like, just make your cases. I wasn't saying he was pompous at all. 0_0 so your saying he was trying to look not scummy by doing the thing that scum players dont do? Wifom much? also Look @ the way he announces that he's about to call a bunch of people out. Like "Look @ me guys, I'm totally not afraid to go after anyone" The trait your describing here is arrogance/confidence. That is not inherently scummy, its neutral, therefore your attacking his character and that is not scum hunting, its an attempt at devaluing his opinion and casting doubt in hopes of seeing if it sticks while elevating your own statues. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
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Vivax
21948 Posts
On July 01 2013 04:31 Lazermonkey wrote: With above facts, it would be very easy to draw the conclusion that marv is not scum beuse if he were, there is a high chance he could get counter claimed. When I then looked at the other game, I found out that marv did in fact claim miller as scum in a game where 2 millers were almost impossible but 1 was quite likely, just like this game. Thats why I changed my mind. But even ignoring that, its BS to say that someone is scum just because they are convinced that someone is town. Counter claim chance in the other game was 60 or 40 %, don't remember which one, I think that's fairly high and also applies to this game. What matters though is that you said marv would be likely town cause two millers are unlikely, dismissing the option that there could be no miller, like Rayn did. It's not bullshit to assume someone is scum cause they are convinced someone is town. If someone gives a town read without proper reasons then it's indicative that they knew their alignment beforehand. You and Rayn clearly didn't look at this matter from the perspective of someone who sees a miller claim and thinks "Oh ok he did it in some other game, I'll judge him by his play then". You say "Oh he claimed he must be town then" (You not as much as Rayn, but you said to Rayn that you agree on marv being probably town and then decided for it once you concluded that two millers are impossible). And when you got gunned for reasons you constructed pretty strange explanations for your reads. In case that anyone didn't read my case yet, I urge you to go through it and at least comment on it: + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2013 21:48 Oatsmaster wrote: well yeah Im just saying that Rayn isnt scum for not knowing about previous game where marv fakeclaimed miller and replaced out. Rayn is scummy for his unnatural confidence into marv being town. Followed by him not adapting his opinion to the new information posted about marv and using whatever he can to justify his unjustified townread. What we have in Rayn is probably a scum seeing a townie claim and immediately taking sides for the townie. From a scum point of view, claiming townies seem to be in a strong position, especially when they know that their team will not counterclaim the townie. They will usually try to pick the right side rather than fighting the claim, scum loves to be on the right side. They feel it's going to earn them trust if they simply take the claim at face value and move on to other stuff, defending the townie against other people's doubts, expecting to look like they were right. A lot of Rayn's reasoning for marv being town stems from the fact that he assumes that there can't be two millers. That is fallacious, and a scumslip, Lazermonkey fell for the same mistake, as I will show you (also notice that Lazermonkey pointed out some of Rayn's mistakes but doesn't pursue him as scumread). 1. Rayn quickly thought post-claim that two millers weren't possible. On June 30 2013 06:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Cool. If nobody counterclaims the next step is that the third party (if here) is going to protect you. On June 30 2013 06:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: marv, now that i can be sure that you are town and i do actually have to find scum instead of bullshitting around, let's work together and find all the mafia on D1. Deal? On June 30 2013 06:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: I bet that was not 5 minutes into the game when one person has posted before you. That is really an unnecessary risk that i do not think you would take as scum in case the real miller is present. (stutters says there can be two millers) On June 30 2013 06:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is no way there are 2 millers in the game so cut talking about that as a possibility already. What's scummy about this:
Implication: → Rayn did not really expect a counterclaim, as seen in point 2, 3 and 4. Only a fraction of players posted at the time so it was not rational to dismiss a counterclaim that quickly. He explains his reasoning here: On June 30 2013 07:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is how i see it: marv claimed before iGrok announced the cop is in fact a parity cop. In case the cop was normal and as there is no GF, it's fair that there is one miller. Two millers make the game insanely hard for a cop, and with two miller claims town might run in circles finding which of the millers is "mafia". As for parity cop, having two millers ease up the game much. If the parity cop is stupid enough to not check marv on N1, they still can check the other miller claim on N2 (as if marv is town he will die on N1) and use that to confirm his earlier and future checks. If there is no cop there is no point in having millers. One might be okay in the sense that it fucks with the town, but not too much. Two millers and no cop is basically impossible. marv would not claim miller in either scenario because there is no need to. So that's why i think marv is town and there is exactly 1 miller. I agree that Lazer is probably town. His opening post was careless and i don't think he would have done that as scum. His vote on WoS is good as WoS is probably scum. :D What do you think about Stutters? Mainly his posts about the miller thing. They are really really bad. Let's dissect this: 1. Rayn says only one miller is possible with standard cop (don't even know why he mentioned this as it's unrelated) 2. Rayn says two millers make the game too easy for parity cop coz he can prime his check on one N2 if the other dies N1 (lolz) 3. Rayn says only one miller is possible with no cop. Also no miller is possible. And he says: THAT'S WHY MARV IS TOWN (cause two millers are unlikely) This question arises: It sticks out that in all of this, Rayn never considers that town could have no miller. Why does Rayn not consider that town has no miller? Cause he first gave marv full credit (too quickly, knowing that the claim must be true) and now has to justify it. Cause he knew that marv's claim was true, and hence had trouble imagining things from a perspective where town could have no miller. Futhermore: On June 30 2013 09:41 Lazermonkey wrote: EBWOP: To expand on that, what is it that makes you think that marv is to bright to fake claim miller in this game despite having done so in another game. The claim was risky in that game, just as the hypothetical fake claim would be in this game. Still you say there cannot be a possibilty that Marv is scum in this game. On June 30 2013 09:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: The fact that there is a rolename for each possible miller. If you fakeclaim, you take a 50% chance of 1-1 trade as mafia, which is not good 5min into D1. There is lot to talk about. Stutters and WoS are scummy. Do you agree? We talk about marv more when he posts more. Rayn was well aware of the fact that millers have names. And yet he said that marv would not have claimed miller cause a guy with the same name would have gotten one of them lynched. BUT MARV NEVER CLAIMED HIS NAME, and Rayn never asked him for it. This shows that Rayn had the intention to defend marv, not that he was figuring out his alignment genuinely. For us, it means that today we should lynch Rayn imo. I also mentioned that Lazer made the same mistake in not assuming the genuine perspective, here: On June 30 2013 07:25 Lazermonkey wrote: Regarding the the possibilties of there being two millers in the setup. First off, I'm going to make the assumption that there are only three scum in this game. Secondly, looking at the roles in possible for scum you can see that the only one power role in our beloved friend Adolf "the roleblocker." Hitler. Now, assuming there is only 1 Hitler (which I don't think is a very bold assumption) the most powerfull scum team is in theory goon x2 + GF, a relativly weak team. Having two millers vs this team, even without additional blue roles, honestly seems kinda OP as you would either get into a postion with 2 modconfirmed townies D1 or a group of 3 people where you know for sure that one is scum. So, once again assuming (-.-)that the game is fairly balanced I don't think there are two millers. And the conclusion you should draw from this is that Marvs claim probably means he is town. Knowing that marv is town, he didn't assume that there could be no miller. | ||
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JarJarDrinks
United States1302 Posts
On July 01 2013 06:18 gumshoe wrote: Are you purposefully misconstruing what I'm saying here? I didn't say it was scummy to accuse people. I said it was scummy to announce that you're accusing people. Add to that the fact that all the things he accused people of were weak fluff cases and I don't know why you'd say that I wasn't scumhunting.0_0 so your saying he was trying to look not scummy by doing the thing that scum players dont do? Wifom much? | ||
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Vivax
21948 Posts
Rayn gave Lazer a townread as reaction to me doing the same. Why did you call Rayn out but not me? | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
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