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On June 10 2013 16:14 Blazinghand wrote:
like, jesus oats you wonder why you get mislynched all the time, it's you're about as useful as a screen door on a submarine
I got mislynched in LXI cause people didnt appreciate my subtle humor.
I got mislynched in some other game cause you are awful and pushed me while I was sleeping, also marv was scum and didnt defend me.
All in all, I get mislynched far less than 'all the time'
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Fucking LOL....
On June 10 2013 15:44 Oatsmaster wrote:Why is BH being SO chill??? Like no ego anywhere to be seen, no flame wars. Show nested quote +
And of course I'm the best, most experienced, and most intelligent player here, Found the ego. Still not as much as before. Im not used to this. Go back to that BH. Whats the point of you praising VA BH? Whos scum BH?
oats> Why is BH being SO chill???
You so silly, he just told you.
a couple of posts back...
BH> Obviously, his meta speculation is unfounded, since my 3p game (so far, at least) has been characterized by strident aggressive play.
See: he is so chill, because he is not 3P.
oats> Whos scum BH?
BH>##vote oatsmaster
On June 10 2013 15:49 Oatsmaster wrote:
why.
Why am I always the one to get unexplained votes. Every game man.
because you asked so nicely for someone (BH this time) to vote you?
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On June 10 2013 16:15 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 16:14 Oatsmaster wrote:
Disagree with you about hapa but whatever, cant change your mind/big headed ego.
Why am I scum.
okay, you disagree with me about hapa. This means you think he's scum, and you aren't like somewhat worried about scum getting elected mayor? I'm a pretty influential guy, Oats. Come on! Convince me! wat
The basis for your town read on Hapa is that scum hapa wont call you 3p right?
Well, I happen to think that that isnt alignment indicative in the slightest. You are playing oddly compared to recent games, I pointed that out, and he may come to the conclusion as a scum player in this game that you might be 3P. I dont see why he wouldnt say this as scum basically.
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On June 10 2013 15:21 GravityMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 13:37 jampidampi wrote:On June 10 2013 13:28 Hapahauli wrote:
@ jampi
What are your thoughts on our resident japanese video game character (Gravity Man)? GravityMan seems to little a few too many words. Dunno if that is somehow related to him trying roleplay or him trying to appear as contributin more. Do smurfs usually roleplay? My universal translator must be malfunctioning as I cannot understand exactly what it is you have said here.
Oops, sorry. My thoughts were faster than my typing, so part of the orginal sentence seems to be missing. To be more clear, I'll reword it completely: My first impression of you was that you use too many words to say what you want to say. I couldn't figure out if that was because you trying to appear to contribute more, or because that is how you speak. Upon rereading, it seems that the latter is more probable.
Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 13:59 jampidampi wrote:On June 10 2013 11:08 Hapahauli wrote:
1) He has a lack of natural suspicion.
Him immediately trusting my words and supporting the ShaioPi campaign after displaying suspicion of it is not natural in the 7-minute window in which he did it. I had accepted his explanation as "open" before, but 7 minutes is an absurd turn-around. I'd expect him to be much more naturally suspicious in his 2nd non-newbie game ever on this site.
I had bought his explanation (of sub-consciously trusting me as town) earlier, however I don't think it's as compelling as I had initially thought. All he's really doing is buddying up to me, which is nothing new for scum to do. Look at ShiaoPis posts at that point. There isn't really anything alignment indicative. In this light it would sense for me to have a null read on him right? Then someone comes and tells me with high confidence that he is town without reasoning. I then ask for his reasoning to validate it. You've somehow managed to assume I suspected ShiaoPi. It is more like there weren't any good reasons to think he is town, hence your townread on him looked really odd. In the 7-minute window, I did not stop to think about you or your alignment since that was not what I was trying to figure out at that time. 2) On June 09 2013 18:48 jampidampi wrote:
A campaign being serious or not is based on the smilies. No smilies = serious campaign. Smilies = joke campaign. What makes a campaign is trying to get others to vote for you. Axle voted himself, because he didn't have better alternatives. But since he isn't asking others to vote him, it's not a campaign.
@Hapa
Are you trying to help Vayne play better or are you noting something you find somewhat scummy? Your post is not clear to me. The underlined question in this post makes no sense objectively. Jampi mentioned that he subconsciously trusted me as town, and seemingly has some sort of town-read on me. Furthermore, he answered Stutters question (directed towards me) in the first half of his post. If he's treating me as town, this question makes no sense. Because if he trusts me, my answer to this question has absolutely no relevancy towards anything (such as the read he's suggesting on Vayne). Futhermore, jampi just hasn't posted any content thusfar. He has 6-7 posts and absolutely zero meaningful content. Even with Day 1 caveats, jampis filter reads like an attempt to contribute by posting useless things. The first part of my post is answearing to Sylencia, and is in no way related to you. I also don't know how you have gathered that I have a town read on you? Subconsious trust =/= trust. This second post interests me as it appears to be the second time of note that this Hapahauli appears to be misrepresenting the tone of one's posts. jampidampi, if you are indeed validating here that you in no way thought that this ShiaoPi was scummy with your earlier posting, do you think it is scummy that this Hapahauli would try to paint you as such? I must admit my thinking has been similar to his.
I wouldn't call him scum for it, since it seems that others (you, stutters) too have interpreted my post in ways I never thought they would be interpreted.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On June 10 2013 16:18 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 16:15 Blazinghand wrote:On June 10 2013 16:14 Oatsmaster wrote:
Disagree with you about hapa but whatever, cant change your mind/big headed ego.
Why am I scum.
okay, you disagree with me about hapa. This means you think he's scum, and you aren't like somewhat worried about scum getting elected mayor? I'm a pretty influential guy, Oats. Come on! Convince me! wat The basis for your town read on Hapa is that scum hapa wont call you 3p right? Well, I happen to think that that isnt alignment indicative in the slightest. You are playing oddly compared to recent games, I pointed that out, and he may come to the conclusion as a scum player in this game that you might be 3P. I dont see why he wouldnt say this as scum basically.
Okay, but let's say for a moment you're town Hapa and you see BH acting oddly. Your first thought is probably "wow, i wonder if he's scum". Since you're Hapahauli and not someone terrible, you think "well, I know how BH plays scum, and this isn't it. still, he's playing oddly. 3p seems to fit the bill" and because you are open with your thoughts and unafraid to state them, you just sort of spew this into the thread. Take a look at the actual post:
On June 10 2013 06:14 Hapahauli wrote:
Are you a 3rd party or something? You sound so... different.
This is a Hapa who's confused and trying to suss out what's going on.
Now, you think Hapa as scum is capable of doing this. Obviously, scum Hapa could make these posts. But scum players are on extra guard to avoid attacking at "3p" too much, since scum usually wants to get rid of 3p as well. Hapa as scum wouldn't be so off hand, so confused. Could he fake it? absolutely. But 90% of the time you see something like this, it's a town being open about his mindset (and taking a risk by doing so-- what worth is it to speculate about 3p? makes you look scummy), just because he's not afraid of getting lynched.
Although scum hapa could do this, it seems so obvious to me that he had a logical train of thought and came to this.
Let me put it this way: If scum hapa saw me acting strangely, his first thought wouldn't be "3p"-- his first thought would be "blue role" and he'd mention it to no one outside his QT, and i'd be dead N1. "3p" wouldn't even cross his mind, and even if it did, there's no need for him to mention it to the thread.
Town hapa would say what he said and act as he did just by thinking. Scum hapa acting naturally and playing to his wincon would not say that, except in some long convoluted plot in which he plans on me making the exact points I'm making now.
Some wine is easier to drink
Hapa is town.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Here's the real money shot, btw, and the reason everyone should mayorify hapahauli.
On June 10 2013 16:24 Blazinghand wrote:
Let me put it this way: If scum hapa saw me acting strangely, his first thought wouldn't be "3p"-- his first thought would be "blue role" and he'd mention it to no one outside his QT, and i'd be dead N1. "3p" wouldn't even cross his mind, and even if it did, there's no need for him to mention it to the thread.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
And before you get into it, no, assholes, I'm not soft-claiming blue, I'm just pointing out how this would look to a confused hapa of either alignment.
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Nooooo.
Lol since when do you play differently as blue from town????
I dont see this,
Are you a 3rd party or something? You sound so... different.
as being exclusively townie.
You see, hes on the scum team, he knows you arent scum FOR EXAMPLE, and then he thinks 3p, cause its not like your town play. And starting a lynch on a 3p is town cred.
So I dont know why you think scum hapa would think blue role, and that scum hapa wont out 3p to the thread.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On June 10 2013 16:32 Oatsmaster wrote:Nooooo. Lol since when do you play differently as blue from town???? I dont see this, as being exclusively townie. You see, hes on the scum team, he knows you arent scum FOR EXAMPLE, and then he thinks 3p, cause its not like your town play. And starting a lynch on a 3p is town cred. So I dont know why you think scum hapa would think blue role, and that scum hapa wont out 3p to the thread.
If you really think scum Hapa would go for a play like that, and do it with a quote like that, then I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, Oats. The idea that Hapa would slip that scum-only info that I'm not scum to the thread in that fashion by assuming I'm 3p (or that he'd try to fake thinking it through that way as town) but NOT follow up on it is preposterous.
What's even more preposterous is the fact that you disagree with my townread on hapa is based on the idea that I'm not scum, and I'm the guy you're voting.
Look, if you REALLY think hapa could be scum because he's attacking me and hoping i'll flip 3p, then ... how am I scum
jesus
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Ugh i just need to stop interacting with oats. My brain hurts.
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 10 2013 15:31 Blazinghand wrote:
I consider myself and Hapa to be the two vets here. We both play a strong town game and use our votes in a valuable way. Although Hapa differs from me in his style (I find myself typically playing a more strident game), he nonetheless uses his vote to great effect. I'm reasonably certain Hapa is town from his inquisitive posting, and his comment on me being 3p, in retrospect, doesn't seem like the kind of comment scum would make.
Now that I think about it, I'm beginning to think it's actually a towntell. I'm fairly certain a scum player who sees Blazinghand playing in a different way will push him in a sidelong way but not say he's 3p. Hapa saw me playing in a different way, but Hapa knows how I play as scum, and this isn't it. It seems a reasonable though process to say "BH is acting different, but not like the scum BH I know. Is he 3p?", and although I gave him some crap for it, it's not a good move for him to make as scum. Obviously, his meta speculation is unfounded, since my 3p game (so far, at least) has been characterized by strident aggressive play.
Hapa is certainly smart and experienced enough to fool me if he's scum, but this kind of excited utterance reveals to me that he actually has a town mindset. He's a smart guy and is one of the few people truly capable of using the mayor position properly.
##mayorify: hapahauli
As for VA, I have been nothing but impressed by his play that I've seen. He's been a capable scumhunter, and he utterly hoodwinked me in Les Mafia. Whereas most of the player list is cluttered with jubjubs and followers (if you're reading this, I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about the other guys), VA is smart. He's not a veteran in terms of games played but for his excellent play in my interactions with him I consider him a vet. That being said, the guy DID utterly hoodwink me, which means the fact that I have a townread on him is meaningless. I can't catch him when he's scum-- or at least, not yet. Anyone that good I'd keep an eye on-- but if he's town, he can use the power wisely. Given my strong townread on hapa though I see no reason to entrust VA with the power.
And of course I'm the best, most experienced, and most intelligent player here, so I'd naturally consider myself for the job. It's just not in the cards for me this game, though. Hapa's willing to do it, and he's town, so the man's got my vote.
Note i too am not interested at this time in looking for the 3P if there was one, personally id be guessing they were smoke to make 11 look plausibly balanced when mayor was the answer. (but I am bad at that kind of guessing) So before 3P is on the agenda Id like to have some indication there was one... besides with the scum hunting time spent on mayor voting after our sloooooow start, I feel we are behind on the day.
But BH just in case you hadn't noticed, there are multiple kinds of 3P in this game (SK+survivor), and the size of this game is (probably) different to your previous games, and so comparison about whether in the past, in probably different contexts, whether or not you were 3p, strident as an indicator for what you rolled you is not, to me, useful.
but yeah basically your post is fine with me, but I dont like finding broken logic in your or hapas posts.
it makes me go hmmmm,
Oats.... different bucket oats does oats things. This time I LOL'd
@Blazinghand
Also a question. As it is your Venn diagram I keep using, I thought I ought ask you about it.
if you rolled any particular alignment in the next game(assume Im host). And I pmed you after you had got it with random choice of you had to be 'strident' or 'not strident', do you think you could choose to play that way.
If in that game you could choose arbitrarily, how much attention should I pay to whether you are strident or not in this game, especially seeing as your the one that pointed it out. (well hapa started it)
Also just to be clear, from memory I think your game as whole has been changing across multiple games.
Several experienced players in completed games seem to be playing differently over time,
marv has been like a hot cold roller door,
basically while I love your diagram and will quote it a lot....
I think this meta stuff is harder to use than simply 'strident' or not.
"A diagram has got to know its limitations" (DHarry)
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Oh yeah, I could play however I want-- I am a talented guy. I mean obviously meta has its limits. The Venn diagram is just a guide mostly to say "ignore this part". not everything outside the orange is relevant, but the orange is guaranteed irrelevant.
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BH is horribad.
Both of you cant be scum.
Im not confident which one could be town.
My vote is on who is scummier which is BH.
Is it that hard to understand???
If you really think scum Hapa would go for a play like that, and do it with a quote like that, then I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, Oats.
Thats what I said dumbass.
Its not a play by hapa. Its a genuine read based on weird posting that I feel Hapa can make as both alignments.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Hm, now I'm wondering if you're just trying to like intentionally be unhelpful. Perhaps scum oats is playing the part of the terrible town oats? It's tempting to think this, especially given this unusual excuse for logic you seem to be presenting in your posts. Your thought process is not apparent to me at all.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Yeah you know what, I don't buy Oats logic at all for not buying my hapa townread and also voting me. If he really thinks I'm scum, his objection to my hapa townread wouldn't be based on the idea of hapa as scum pushing a non-scum blazinghand. Whatever flaws Oats may have as a player, this chain of logic really doesn't make sense to me. You can say you think we both can't be scum, and I'm scummier, but that still doesn't explain why you don't buy the logic in my statement of a townread on hapa. The scenario in which my townread and the logic behind it are not correct (ie, i'm town and hapa is scum) shouldn't really be prevelant in your mind if you really think I'm scum.
I just can't square any of your explanation with "I think blazinghand is scum, and i don't buy his townread on hapa since hapa could be scum and pushing blazinghand who isn't scum". You have backtracked how sure you are that I'm scum, which is clever, but you also state that hapa would be making a genuine read as scum. I don't see a town perspective that leads to this. I don't see it at all.
##vote: oatsmaster
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On June 10 2013 17:03 Blazinghand wrote:
Oh yeah, I could play however I want-- I am a talented guy. I mean obviously meta has its limits. The Venn diagram is just a guide mostly to say "ignore this part". not everything outside the orange is relevant, but the orange is guaranteed irrelevant.
yeah I knew were talented, what I wanted to check, if (how easily) you would admit to being that talented.
As I perceive things you doing so was a risk. ta.
I am slowly getting better at working out which bits to ignore.
The venn diagram is as you say only a guide, what I like about it is
it is the bit in the middle of so much of how to play mafia.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Oh, absolutely. As scum if you can exclusively inhabit the orange zone you will highly successful. While you're here, i was wondering if you could update your reasoning for voting Oats beyond what you initially said (link). Weighing in on what I said specifically would also be nice.
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Dear hosts does Vayne have two mayoral Votes? Sylencia and hapa.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 10 2013 17:41 Blazinghand wrote:
Yeah you know what, I don't buy Oats logic at all for not buying my hapa townread and also voting me. If he really thinks I'm scum, his objection to my hapa townread wouldn't be based on the idea of hapa as scum pushing a non-scum blazinghand. Whatever flaws Oats may have as a player, this chain of logic really doesn't make sense to me. You can say you think we both can't be scum, and I'm scummier, but that still doesn't explain why you don't buy the logic in my statement of a townread on hapa. The scenario in which my townread and the logic behind it are not correct (ie, i'm town and hapa is scum) shouldn't really be prevelant in your mind if you really think I'm scum.
I just can't square any of your explanation with "I think blazinghand is scum, and i don't buy his townread on hapa since hapa could be scum and pushing blazinghand who isn't scum". You have backtracked how sure you are that I'm scum, which is clever, but you also state that hapa would be making a genuine read as scum. I don't see a town perspective that leads to this. I don't see it at all.
##vote: oatsmaster
Dear BlazingHand you may be talented, but there is a voting thread.
On June 10 2013 18:19 Blazinghand wrote:Oh, absolutely. As scum if you can exclusively inhabit the orange zone you will highly successful. While you're here, i was wondering if you could update your reasoning for voting Oats beyond what you initially said (link). Weighing in on what I said specifically would also be nice.
Um first up. You have actually read that stuff in that post. (not just that I voted...right?) I was playing with myself (pun intended). I was the only person in the thread. So I started posting stuff. For people to pick on or whatever. k.
Huh?
yeah I will weigh in but its going to hurt.
mentioned earlier in spoiler reply to gravityman I mentioned wet finger reads.
I don't have them for just anyone. I usually don't have them for oats, even though I played with him a lot, most of my feel for his scum game from playing with him is old and from His second newbie, so Id expect he changed. I will have read other games he played too... still.. normally not wet finger read material.
However as I read this latest exchange, I didn't get a sense of him trying to achieve a purpose other than his stated one.
However in terms of finding scum I am starting to have to look under the rocks to find scum posting in the thread.
I will try harder,
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one problem is I already had views on Hapas towniness. They colour everything I see,
so if at some point in the analysis I try and guess is it reasonable for someone else to either
see or not see what I do it gets messy fast.
On June 10 2013 18:19 Blazinghand wrote:Oh, absolutely. As scum if you can exclusively inhabit the orange zone you will highly successful. While you're here, i was wondering if you could update your reasoning for voting Oats beyond what you initially said (link). Weighing in on what I said specifically would also be nice.
First, in terms of hapa reaction to you being different
On June 10 2013 06:14 Hapahauli wrote:
Are you a 3rd party or something? You sound so... different.
Your logic. goes like: hapa waves 3P at you...
"If he were scum, he'd be infinitely more cautious about pushing a guy like me, "
Better yet why would a Hapa, who is a likely mayor if he is scum wave that at you.
He IMO cant as scum want to lynch you, hed nk you sometime and try and get you to share the blame for the lynches the rest.
I can propose, he might think he needed to push you a bit to look genuine. hard to drink.
However what I feel, is "inquisitiveness". I'd do that as the less hard I push you then see what happens
the cleaner I can interpret the response. FYI: I also push harder on occasions.
Scum can want soft pushes too, but they smell like seeing what mud will stick.
So what does the quality of the read of hapa mean about you or Oats.
Re BH:
Finding hapa as town using that was not something I saw for myself.
Even though you pointed it out its not something you talked me into.
For you to be scum you need to be working pretty hard to find your town reads to find that. This makes it harder than average to drink.
(do remember you claimed to be talented)
I still claim its harder than average to drink (AKA I don't think your that talented.)
+ Show Spoiler +{go on object and claim you really are talented enough to fake that!}
Re Oats:
Thats harder. As i understand it he though hapa as as towny as i do and ....
problem: I cant work out what hes thinking. Normally when hes scum he is thinking.
So IDK in some cack handed way that it makes no sense means ...
I will try some more...
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EPT
