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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On July 22 2013 22:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 20:37 kushm4sta wrote:
for end of game bragging rights:
3 scum left, 1 sk left (unclaimed shot on yamato)
drh
kholly
rayne
? some other random person First of all you are wrong probably on everyone in your list. Do you think Sloosh is town as you seem like? Explain the pardoning on Sloosh. Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 20:46 kushm4sta wrote:
@vayne how many pardons do you have? could you pardon yourself? I am assuming you mean me? I have one, as i have had whole game. I have not asked if i can pardon myself but i would assume yes.
Given he said 3 mafia left, I'm taking kush to mean he thinks slOosh/strongandbig are confirmed. I'd also assume you can't pardon yourself, that seems a bit silly. Imagine impeaching a president and the president waiving the charges or something.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
I was just flicking through Vayne's filter, and in doing so I came across this again:
On July 22 2013 08:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no reason why you should not have voted for Sloosh on D2 as your team pardoned him. I pushed his lynch on both days.
Under the assumption that slOosh is flipping mafia, this is actually a really important perspective to take out of it. Looking at people who didn't want to kill slOosh day 1 and then did on day 2 might be a good place to look for a mafia or two.
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On July 23 2013 00:08 marvellosity wrote:I was just flicking through Vayne's filter, and in doing so I came across this again: Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 08:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no reason why you should not have voted for Sloosh on D2 as your team pardoned him. I pushed his lynch on both days. Under the assumption that slOosh is flipping mafia, this is actually a really important perspective to take out of it. Looking at people who didn't want to kill slOosh day 1 and then did on day 2 might be a good place to look for a mafia or two.
this vayne/rayne thing is annoying, never know what people are talking about.
And Yea you quoted a flat out lie from rayn, he's trying to make it look like I didn't vote him day 1 for some reason when I did.
That's why if sloosh flips scum he is definitely scum, he's trying to make preflip assocations with me before we even know what side sloosh is on.
I am convinced rayne is scum, if he isn't I will be really surprised. His early pardoner claim makes sense now.
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I was confused at first because I didn't think a scum pardoner was a real thing but rayne is SO convinced that there is a thing which I found real weird, and then it clicked on what happened.
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Vayne, you agree we got to lynch the other guys first right? Sloosh and SnB?
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
Seems I'm burping through my posts a little, sorry about that. Decided to have a look at the day 1 and day 2 votecounts. All this taken under the assumption slOosh is mafia.
+ Show Spoiler [Vote Counts] +On July 18 2013 12:01 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Vote count incoming.
VisceraEyes - 6
Oatsmaster
gumshoe
slOosh
yamato77
FirmTofu
Ace
strongandbig
layabout
kholly
kholly
VayneAuthority - 0
DoctorHelvetica
DoctorHelvetica - 1
kholly
FirmTofu
Meapak_Ziphh
Sloosh - 5
raynpelikoneet
VayneAuthority
HiroPro
kushm4sta
VisceraEyes
Vivax
Vivax
FirmTofu
Kholly - 1
gumshoe
marvellosity
Strongandbig - 1
Vivax
gumshoe
Vivax
raynpelikoneet - 0
Koshi
Sandroba - 0
Malongo
Malongo - 1
VisceraEyes
Koshi
Oatsmaster - 0
DoctorHelvetica
Firmtofu - 1
DoctorHelvetica
gumshoe
Meapak_ziphh - 5
Mr. Wiggles
layabout
Malongo
kholly
gumshoe
VisceraEyes
Ace - 0
Vivax
VisceraEyes has 6 votes and is to be lynched. This will be finalized and posted in 20 minutes. If anyone can verify my count it would be appreciated. On July 21 2013 14:20 geript wrote:
DoctorHelvetica (0): kholly, kholly, Vivax
FirmTofu (2): Ace, Malongo, DoctorHelvetica, raynpelikoneet, strongandbig, Kushm4sta, Adam4167, kholly, Oatsmaster
layabout (1): slOosh
Ace (0): FirmTofu, Ace, FirmTofu
kholly (1): Vivax, Koshi, FirmTofu, Marvellosity
Oatsmaster (0): raynpelikoneet, Vivax
Vivax (0): Kushm4sta, FirmTofu
Meapak_Ziphh (1): Korynne, FirmTofu, Oatsmaster, raynpelikoneet
slOosh (9): Mr Wiggles, Kushm4sta, layabout, raynpelikoneet, Vivax, VayneAuthority, Korynne, Koshi, Adam4167
strongandbig (1): Koshi, kholly
VayneAuthority (1): Malongo
Not Voting (1) : Meapak_Ziphh
Day 1: slOosh: rayn, Vayne, HiroPro, kush, FirmTofu
Day 2: slOosh (9): Mr Wiggles, Kushm4sta, layabout, Meapak_Ziph, raynpelikoneet, Vivax, VayneAuthority, Korynne, Koshi, Adam4167
So people marked in blue are people who voted slOosh both days, and therefore look quite good. Incidentally I'd say that at this stage, it would be a good reason for Vayne and rayn to stop taking slugs out of each other, even though it's nice for a bit of rhyming. At the moment I think you're both town.
Bold people are confirmed flips, and anyone in unbolded green is a current town-read of mine. So that leaves Wiggles, layabout, and Adam (a replacement).
Pre-edit: Votecount was wrong, layabout wasn't voting for slOosh, and Meapak was but omitted on geript's votecount
Here's what Wiggles had to say about slOosh day 1:
On July 18 2013 05:28 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
-snip-
I think a lynch between MZ and VE would be a good choice. I'm not as sure about the Sloosh lynch. He hasn't done too much, but having a couple posts defending himself is not so bad in my opinion, simply because he was attacked by several people for his opinion on PMs. So, to use posts talking about that after seems natural, similar to how Tofu had posts defending himself based on his post about the traitor.
And then day 2:
On July 21 2013 03:00 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I haven't posted yet. I was hashing things out in PM yesterday.
I don't think MZ is the best lynch for today. I don't get as much of the same feeling I did yesterday that he's scum.
I generally agree with Vivax's reads and they fall in line with a lot of what I've been thinking. I think Sloosh would be a good choice for the lynch today. I didn't think he was as scummy yesterday, because he was attacked quite early, so focusing more on defense wasn't incredibly alignment indicative, but since yesterday, he hasn't made up for it. After the pressure on him stopped, he hasn't really done anything. He's made an analysis on layabout, but he's not actually pushing for anyone to vote for him. Compare the effort he's put in to getting layabout lynched compared to the effort he put into his defense on Day 1. It's pretty disproportionate. This shows that he was more worried about saving himself from dying compared to the effort he's put into finding scum, and now that he needs to help hunt scum, he's done just enough to look like he's helping.
Additionally, Sloosh was soft-defended by Yamato a few times, with him making excuses for Sloosh's activity and lack of sucmhunting. Even his last post where he says that he maybe wants to lynch Sloosh, he puts a condition on it, saying that he'll only lynch him if he doesn't start scumhunting. This gives sloosh yet another out. This is somewhat relational, and while secondary to what I wrote above, is still another mark against him.
##Vote: Sloosh
One curious thing about it is that he's backing off what seemed to be a pretty damn strong scumread on MZ for no actual reason other than "I don't get as much the same feeling.". Also, I feel the context of Vivax's mason logs is kinda important:
On July 22 2013 08:50 Vivax wrote:Posting my logs cause I'll die anyway:
mason: WigglesThis guy has really been a pain in the ass to chat with. He's hesitant, lacks proactivity, disappears randomly. I always had this scum feeling about him. If I had to fill the next slot for scum it'd be him. He also did some sketchy switch. When I asked him in chat who he would lynch now immediately, he said layabout, the next thing he did in a post was voting SlOosh. I asked him about it, he replied with this, make of it what you will, but this guy has to post a lot more, it's absolutely not ok that he has gone ignored for so long: ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ From: Mr. Wiggles [ 4716 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Mason Date: 7/21/13 03:43 I feel like the case on Sloosh is strong as well. I also don't think MZ is a good lynch, and it feels like there's more support from the people I think are town for a sloosh lynch compared to a layabout lynch. I'd be alright lynching either, but I feel Sloosh is now the better choice for today's lynch. It will also give us more information based on what happened Day 1. Show nested quote +Original Message From Vivax:
In chat yesterday you said you'd lynch layabout instantly if you could. Why do you pick SlOosh now that I actually found a piece of evidence about layabout that's one of the most damning pieces in my cases? ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Wiggles feels like scum, he's robotic, his stories have this feeling of "narrative", he tries to deliver straight stories as much as possible, especially his PM there looks kinda fabricated, not that it matters, cause remember, SlOosh S & B and layabout have priority imo, Wiggles needs to be pressured a lot more.
The emphasis is mine. Seems Wiggles found himself on slOosh despite basically ignoring him day 1 and thinking there were better targets (layabout) day 2. Conclusion? Looks pretty fishy, but not conclusive.
Spoilering the layabout stuff I wrote below because the votecount was wrong :/
+ Show Spoiler +So how about layabout? Day 1 slOosh mentions: On July 18 2013 09:44 layabout wrote:
-snip-
For a 24 player game we have a vote's spread pretty thinly:
here are the leaders as far as i can tell and we should not be lynching slOosh.
votes
sloosh: 5 raynpelikoneet VayneAuthority HiroPro kushm4sta VisceraEyes
VE: 3 FirmTofu yamato77 slOosh
snb:2 Vivax gumshoe Interesting anyways. Why shouldn't we? On July 18 2013 09:55 layabout wrote:
-snip-
It's important to note that the things you share in PMs and the things you share with the thread are very different. In general stuff in the thread is posted to works towards a goal like getting reaction persuading people directing discussion etc. But in PMs you can talk about the game the big and the small, the little things that you are thinking about but might not want to share with the thread or that you want another opinion on.
But a very large part of VE's reason for voting slOosh is that slOosh is PMing VE about the small stuff. Or rather something that VE does not think should be the main focus of the game right now. But what slOosh has done is send a perfectly reasonable PM and VE has tried to use that to tell us that slOosh's priorities are skewed as if slOosh had posted that in the thread.
VE's entire reason for pushing slOosh is inflated and intentionally out of context.
Moving on to after the day 1 lynch.... On July 19 2013 10:47 layabout wrote:
slOsh's attitude really does not fell like the attitude of somebody that is trying to find scum. I think he is deliberately overlooking stuff that should be obvious . slOosh now scummy, after saying he was a terrible lynch day 1. On July 21 2013 11:29 layabout wrote:
apparent ly mz was lying as a joke. what a dick. i athinkingm about not playing with him again. what a horeible attitude.
why has no one pmed me yet?
if i am around i might switch to slOosh. but i havent filtered him and i am not thinking straight And............ just realised this is all hopeless, because the Day 2 votecount was wrong and layabout was actually voting for MZ, and not slOosh. Lame.
And Adam... not a lot to say about Adam.
On July 21 2013 11:21 Adam4167 wrote:
I'll sheep rayn right now since I don't have time to do much else.
Those PM's from sloosh are uninspiring.
##Vote:Sloosh
That's all we have.
Meapak... I kinda think he's town, and it's a bit hard to pin him down on his filter. Day 1 MZ fails to mention slOosh at all. Post Day 1:
On July 20 2013 01:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Ace my man I thought your reveal was gonna have more... flair. Must say I'm dissapointed son.
I for one would much rather lynch sloosh than FT
First mention that I can find.
On July 21 2013 05:10 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I like me some sloosh lynch.
On July 22 2013 08:32 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Actually lets make a deal vayne, we lynch sloosh. He flips town, we kill rayn. He flips scum, we kill you.
This one looks pretty terrible, but ugh. I have to say I'm really just crossing my fingers and hoping MZ is town, because I can't give any massively rational reasons why it should be the case.
Just some general musings on votecounts; On Day 1 Meapak had 5 voters, as one of the 3 main wagons. 3 of the wagon have flipped town (gumshoe, VE, Malongo) leaving Mr Wiggles and layabout. This alone makes it pretty likely at least one of Wiggles and layabout was mafia - working on the assumption that at least 3 of the wagon on VE were mafia (yamato/slOosh/s&b, possibly kholly...).
It's kinda unfortunate there were so many no-shows on Day 1, leaves a lot of information missing.
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On July 23 2013 00:39 Koshi wrote:
Vayne, you agree we got to lynch the other guys first right? Sloosh and SnB?
My reasoning was that rayn is the most active scum probably right now so we should cut off their leadership. Nobody believes my theory though so I guess my vote is wasted unless I just vote for sloosh.
I don't think SnB is mafia and I've made that pretty clear so no. I'd much rather lynch Meapak after sloosh, his soft defense of rayn when we were arguing and the shit marv just posted only solidifies my scum reading on him
I don't think you are scum anymore btw koshi since vivax was town. I doubt you'd be able to trick a town vivax that's playing for real.
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lol I have a lot of trouble keeping vayne and rayne apart.
vayne you don't think snb is scum.... for realz?? I thought everyone was in agreement about this.
he is afk so he had basically given up/scumclaimed. he could be sk I guess? the only reason not to kill him after sloosh is if he is gonna get modkilled instead.
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Vayne. I hope you read this carefully and think about it because i am going to say this only once.
Your theory is that i claimed a pardoner, one of the best scum roles at the start of the game. Then my team silenced me right after gumshoe told me he is going to claim to me because apparently for scum!rayn it's better that he claimed to marv instead. I have bussed slOosh the whole game as i was the first one to votefor him and i was actively trying to got people to vote for him.
- There is no reason why i should/would have claimed pardoner as mafia. The thing that everyone now knows there actually is a pardoner in the game speaks in favor of that, because the only situation where it would be beneficial for scum (if i was scum) would be that there is not actually a pardoner at all.
- There is no reason why i would have myself silenced over some active townie if i was mafia. D1 was fucking inactive and if i silenced myself as mafia gains me nothing. Actually it does the opposite as gumshoe is about to claim to me.
- There is no reason i should have pushed slOosh the entire game as mafia, there have been other targets (like half of the players on D1). The only time i let go of sloosh for a while was when he masoned me. That was because i wanted to give him a chance to prove his towniness. Why would i not tell sloosh to even try to make some good shit up if i was mafia? We could have easily made him look better.
None of the actions you think i am scum for do make sense from scum!rayn pov. There would be no reason for me to claim pardoner if i was mafia. There was no benefit in silencing myself if i was mafia, actually it would only hurt my team (we lose a claim + power, for nothing). There is no reason i would have bussed sloosh for the entire game when there were like 10 other targets at that time.
Can you please try to understand why you are wrong on this, and can you please look for actual mafia if you are town?
thanks.
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Also i was never saying you did not vote for sloosh D1. I was saying D2 votes on sloosh don't tell shit because of the pardon. People who voted for sloosh early on are more likely to be town than those who voted last.
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I went afk because i got busy this weekend and we're lynching sloosh no matter what anyway. Why does everyone call me scum whenever I get busy?
Other than inactivity what's the case against me? Vivax has been tunneling me all game (just like he does every game) based on my bad first post, but everyone else seems to just have been coasting along with his tunnel.
And I will defend the ace shot to my grave if necessary. There was no reason to leave him alive and every reason to want him dead.
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On July 23 2013 00:39 Koshi wrote:
Vayne, you agree we got to lynch the other guys first right? Sloosh and SnB?
But shit like this? When did I become auto scum?
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strongandbig
Do you agree with Vivax on his other cases? SloOsh and Layabout?
Since you shot Ace you have done nothing, so please don't come here all and mighty and claim that we shouldn't see you as scum. Prove it.
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On July 23 2013 03:40 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 00:39 Koshi wrote:
Vayne, you agree we got to lynch the other guys first right? Sloosh and SnB? But shit like this? When did I become auto scum?
when you shot ace
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SnB and Sloosh
You guys /STILL/ haven't posted your chat logs with each other. So uh, you're both scum until at least one of you produces the evidence.
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On July 23 2013 04:19 Korynne wrote:
SnB and Sloosh
You guys /STILL/ haven't posted your chat logs with each other. So uh, you're both scum until at least one of you produces the evidence.
I don't give a shit what their logs look like honestly. they are still both getting lynched.
@rayne you ask, why would scum pardoner claim pardoner? well because you didn't fully comprehend the role yet and also you think claiming a role which you can prove makes you look town.
it is similar to how snb claimed his shot on ace.
wait actually I am currently second guessing my snb read.
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Original Message From slOosh: Scum motivated because you don't want to be on a town mislynch wagon, and you create more chaos by moving around votes like that. Just because layabout could have done something as scum and didn't, doesn't mean he can't be scum. I've seen scum lynched D1 (Catch 22 mafia) by one vote, and scum could have easily switched but they didn't, and then the rest of the game the scum skated by on town cred because "why wouldn't scum just switch their vote" was so strong. Do you have some town tells on layabout or something? Also, what do you think of the new Ace / FirmTofu stuff? Show nested quote +Original Message From strongandbig: I'm not the first to say it but if meapak flips scum then obviously khollin/chez. He switched over to meapak but then switched back almost instantly when gumshoe voted meapak (which put meapak tied with be I believe? So that if ve swapped from you to meapak, meapak would be the lynch. So chez basically saved meapak by lunching VE. Re the layabout case you posted. I think that the stuff about wording and inherent guilt is interesting but not conclusively a scum tell. It seems like the key argument is that layabout set up his vote based on the VE claim but switched to mz. This is weird sure but how is it scum motivated? Why wouldn't layabout as scum just leave his vote on ve? Original Message From slOosh: That's currently where I'm looking right now. Votes were flying around because everything was so rushed and chaotic, and the mz wagon came out of nowhere. I don't recall any meaningful effort into lynching mz during the day, so you have to point out where you think scum were trying to build his wagon. At face value seems unlikely that a last minute voteswing would land on scum though. Who sticks out to you the most from the voting patterns? Original Message From strongandbig: okay... it's a bit too late for the lurker lynch question to matter, so how about instead can you comment on the late push for a MZ lynch? do you think that it was townies fighting townies (his vs ve's wagons) or do you think that mz is scum and scum were trying to keep the lynch off him? Original Message From slOosh: I'll get back to you later tonight, I've been extremely busy and what little time I've had I was using in thread. Original Message From strongandbig: Original Message from strongandbig: Original Message From slOosh: Original Message From strongandbig: Original Message From slOosh:
[quote]
What the heck what kind of questions are these?
Vivax's last paragraphs are clear about how you just muse on masoning Oats but don't actually take a stance. What's your stance on Oats?
Nothing substantial out of VE yet but it's still early in the day to tell, especially with him.
Also what happened to your call out of VA? Are you masoned with him or something? my stance on oats should be pretty obvious. my gut reaction was that his early game was really scummy, but i dont trust my gut with him specifically. Is there something scummy about that? I have a history of getting him wrong. I really don't think it's too early in the day to tell with VE. Specifically, what about his attack on wiggles? It looks to me like he decided to be suspicious of wiggles and then made up reasons afterwards. As for VA, i'm not masoned with him, i just thought i would let him have some time to respond to my call out, and then I forgot to follow up... getting back on that. but srs talk about ve in a substantial way plzkthx It is entirely possible that VE has played games with Mr. Wiggles before and is using meta to base his read. I do agree that he is focusing on talking about people no one really cares about right now ... I'm still mulling how he is going to use his remaining posts. Giving DrH 5 posts seems like an easy way to feign contribution without actually contributing. Any thoughts on the new Oats / DrH / FirmTofu stuff? I guess you must not like that I have drh three of my posts first lol. Don't think drh is scum, especially not for the "lie" mentioned given. It seems like someone misunderstanding drh and then being stubborn about it. For for tofu that stubbornness is not alignment indicative IMO, townies are stubborn sometimes (I have been) but scum do it on purpose a lot. As for drh's case on tofu, I do find that kind of weird - "you're scum for attacking me when I defended you" seems like a pretty silly argument which is weird out of drh but not enough to make me think he is scum. As for oats. It seems like a lot of the case on him is about the pm logs so let me get to my comp and read those before I comment in detail. Say some stuff about the possibility of a lurker lynch today. Good/bad? Necessary? Scum favored? Yeah so sup? haven't heard from you in a while. wanted to follow up on the oats question, like I posted in the thread i don't think he's scum anymore. the only thing out there is the "difference between pms and the thread" but I don't really see it and his thread stuff looks much more townie to me than it did at the start of the day. not ready to call him sure town yet but he's probably town. its kind of weird that oats would try to donate posts when he's already running out. not sure if i like that, there are plenty of people who aren't in danger of hitting the post limit.
stopped replying when it became clear that he wasn't really trying to persuade people he's town anymroe
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On July 23 2013 03:37 strongandbig wrote:
I went afk because i got busy this weekend and we're lynching sloosh no matter what anyway. Why does everyone call me scum whenever I get busy?
Other than inactivity what's the case against me? Vivax has been tunneling me all game (just like he does every game) based on my bad first post, but everyone else seems to just have been coasting along with his tunnel.
And I will defend the ace shot to my grave if necessary. There was no reason to leave him alive and every reason to want him dead.
Can you please do so, as you haven't really defended it at all so far... for example, I asked you a question before. It's in my filter if you want to find it, I bolded your name and everything.
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clarifying some things:
I read one of slOosh's post's on day 1 and i decided i wanted to mason him but just as i was typing it in i checked a votecount and decided not to. I thought he was fine at the time.
I also never would have voted or pushed VE on day1 if he hadn't claimed and been so unhelpful with it. I hate that he does that and i will vote him everytime he does.
was yesterday ended early?
Finally back at home so i can have a thorough read if i can be arsed.
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EPT
