EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XLII - Page 40
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
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Umasi
United States1399 Posts
That said, I'll look at lone meow and see what I think about him since he's the center of discussion. | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
On June 09 2013 04:01 Umasi wrote: I'm back. I derped and didn't see gotard on firere, or at least it didn't register, so I'd accept that he's not scum, but I think the case on him pre-flip was rock solid by xzav. That entire part is why I think he is/was scummy, we talked about it for quite a while. That said, I'll look at lone meow and see what I think about him since he's the center of discussion. Why do you cortadict yourself here, you accept he isnt scum but the case against him was rock solid? | ||
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Spicydinosaur
United States382 Posts
On June 09 2013 04:01 Umasi wrote: I'm back. I derped and didn't see gotard on firere, or at least it didn't register, so I'd accept that he's not scum, but I think the case on him pre-flip was rock solid by xzav. That entire part is why I think he is/was scummy, we talked about it for quite a while. That said, I'll look at lone meow and see what I think about him since he's the center of discussion. The case was far from rock solid and pretty clear he wasn't scum. I'm actually a bit concerned on how you brushed off my criticism of firere and your general thoughts on him. Heres what you said about firere: On June 07 2013 04:27 Umasi wrote: Why wouldn't newbie scum read the rules equally carefully? A newbie town and a newbie scum have equal interest in the setup of the game, so using it to try to indicate if someone is mafia or town seems irrelevant. Unless there is a reason I don't see that town would pay more attention to the OP than a scum! I think commenting on how it seems too easy, and telling us to wait, is more interesting, because it feels like he's trying to be inclusive here, when really it was me talking to myself, getting jabbed by iV, and xzav being logical... And I don't know why he felt like part of that group? A somewhat valid point but it comepletly overlooked firere's statement of "Wait guys, this seems too easy." The tone just felt so scummy. On June 07 2013 04:36 Umasi wrote: I think that the jester question is null, I think that his telling us to be more careful is scummy. On June 07 2013 14:43 Umasi wrote: Firere, I don't even know what I'm fucking ACCUSED of, and if someone would spell it out, I'd be happy to comply with their demands. Gotard IS aware of what he was accused of, and has not complied. On June 07 2013 14:47 Umasi wrote: Also, Firere, to me it looks like you just came in, promised to be more active, pointed out something that everyone has pointed out, and given an excuse for asking the jester question. Thank you for explaining the jester question! That said, if you AREN'T more active in the future, it's going to be annoying as shit. So please be more active in the future. This seems like "please stop being so scummy or they will find out about you." You thank him for an explanation that you deemed irrelevant in one of your previous quotes. So why the pat on the back post? This next quote here is quite troubling. On June 08 2013 00:02 Umasi wrote: Spicy, I agree that Firerer looks suspicious, because he hasn't posted anything of worth yet, but I think it's okay to give him a bit of time to come contribute. I don't want to be distracted from a Gotard lynch today unless someone posts a super rock solid defense of him. But if Firere hasn't posted anything of worth by the next lynch period, I'll happily consider him. Giving someone a pass for not posting ANYTHING of worth for an entire day doesn't make a lot of sense as that is exactly what scum want to do. Also of note is how firere said that he thought Umasi was town. Not a true indicator of scum buddies or anything, just something else to consider. | ||
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Umasi
United States1399 Posts
Gotard happening to BE on firere means that he's a lot less likely to be scum, and I didn't want to hassle firere since it was entirely possible he was just busy. Similar to Yavanna being around then suddenly not being around. Is it a scum tell that she hasn't been around? What if something legitimately came up? I'm wary of lynching people for being afk, because shit happens. To reiterate: I think gotard played like scum day one, in everything except his vote. That said, his vote was a big enough deal, being on scum, that it condemned firere. However, I think he was objectively scummy. His posts since then have been better. If you'll notice me saying "I'll give him time to contribute", we lynched him and he never had time to contribute. Also, he mentions his gut read is "umasi town, gotard maf", which is another strike for townie on gotard. Calling me town is absolutely considerable, but I don't know what I'm supposed to say to counteract what a scum has said t.t | ||
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Umasi
United States1399 Posts
I didn't overlook him trying to feel inclusive with that post, I actually address it. I comment about not knowing WHY he's trying to feel inclusive, and don't actually call him scum for it, but I certainly don't fucking overlook it. | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
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Spicydinosaur
United States382 Posts
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Gotard
Poland446 Posts
On June 06 2013 14:41 Umasi wrote: Yeah, I'm afraid to go it alone. I want to win, and I'm not confident in myself, so other people expressing doubt like that makes me feel more uneasy. I guess I have shitty reading abilities, but I'm actively trying to improve it. I'm not mindlessly tunneling you, I feel like I've tried to read what you had to say in a pro-town light, but I don't see why you are saying what you're saying. And my list may have been shitty. If so, ignore it and move on. If you don't ignore it, and it helps you achieve some understanding of the game, then it wasn't useless! If it confuses you, it was bad! So was it bad, null, or good. Did it confuse you, did you ignore it, or did it help you understand the game. Everything you say pisses me off, and that makes me think you're mafia. It's possible you're town! There's always a possibility! It's a possibility my role pm lied! And keeping my options open is important, because someone could come and make a convincing case you are town. I'm not going to just continue tunneling you, that's STUPID. If there is a better lynch than you, I will HAPPILY VOTE IT. At this point, I think you are the best lynch, and have the highest chance of flipping mafia, according to my shit reading abilities. On June 07 2013 14:23 Umasi wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147475 I think we can draw parallels between Gotard and Misder that are not trivial: Ver: Gotard: Like, right from the fucking get go. And he acknowledges that he made a mistake (see above), which I take as basically apologizing. Why would he apologize? For holding a contrary read? And also this list is looking really interesting Gotard (4): Umasi, Firere345, LoneMeow, Xzavier | ||
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Spicydinosaur
United States382 Posts
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Spicydinosaur
United States382 Posts
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Xzavier
United States393 Posts
On June 09 2013 05:36 Spicydinosaur wrote: @gotard. I don't think that's a huge point about the reading abilities. New players feel a lot of intimidation early on with reads but then they can get better and feel more confident. As for your list of those with votes on you.. its interesting but im not 100% sure all scum were on you to save firere... yet. Going to wait for night actions to see that. I agree with this. scum were probably on him. If i was scum tho i wouldnt want to do the indecisive last minute vote switching. That raises too many questions that a scum wouldnt want to answer. but lonemeow and umasi are really high on my scum list. | ||
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Umasi
United States1399 Posts
On June 07 2013 20:59 LoneMeow wrote: It's not really a strong scum read at all, but right now I'd want to lynch Firere345. Doesn't say much, sheeps the current "consensus". Promises to participate more but doesn't seem to be doing so. This situation with Gotard has me worried, I can understand why people would want to lynch him but I'm having hard time convincing myself scum would dare be so brash. Just food for thought, but if this is before people truly looked into Firere as a lynch candidate and "merely someone scummy", why would Lonemeow as scum talk about him as his strongest scum read? I don't think it was an attempt to build town cred/bus/whatever the term is, because the wagon hadn't even really started. That said, it really was just slipped in there, and he didn't assert it at all, but it really throws off my read on him, which was "probably scum". | ||
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Umasi
United States1399 Posts
Although looking at vote wagons can be smart, I think it's not truly relevant here, because of Lonemeows actions earlier in the thread. Unless you want to discuss the possibility of me being scum because of my vote on gotard, in which case, feel free I guess. I don't think there's a lot to be had on it because I felt like I explained my reasoning for voting Gotard pretty well. | ||
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Umasi
United States1399 Posts
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Spicydinosaur
United States382 Posts
On June 09 2013 06:28 Umasi wrote: Just food for thought, but if this is before people truly looked into Firere as a lynch candidate and "merely someone scummy", why would Lonemeow as scum talk about him as his strongest scum read? I don't think it was an attempt to build town cred/bus/whatever the term is, because the wagon hadn't even really started. That said, it really was just slipped in there, and he didn't assert it at all, but it really throws off my read on him, which was "probably scum". Well scum have to interact with each other and that sometimes includes throwing suspicion around just to mess with you. Lone says he has a scum read on firere but doesnt vote him. If Lone actually put his vote on firere then we would be having a different conversation as voting is a stronger indication of what you are believing than just saying someone is scum. You also point out correctly that a bussing hadn't started yet on firere, so it would be safe for Lone to say he was suspicious of firere without any really worries that he would be lynched. He could then go back later and say "hey look I was right." He only voted Gotard way later when firere had a ton of votes on him. The town cred build up was for later, not immediate cash-in. Personally I'm still not sure on Lone but then being scum buddies makes sense with what i just written. | ||
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StiMaDDict
Korea (South)313 Posts
LoneMeow is a mafia. Kill him tonight if you are Vigilante. We have a solid case against him and his interaction with Firere345 (proven scum) further indicate that he is up to no good. I'm not sure whether he is afk or something but he is not even defending himself even though he is in a tight spot. Also he only made these two posts which in my opinion is contentless and weak. On June 08 2013 14:06 LoneMeow wrote: Good morning, and good job on the lynch. I'll need a while to read everything that has happened but if anyone's here feel free to ask what's on your mind in the meanwhile. On June 08 2013 15:42 LoneMeow wrote: Crap, running out of time. Essentially, since voting is mandatory, I had to choose between Firere345 (who I mostly wanted to lynch for lurking so much and not really being very useful when he was around) and Gotard, on whom there was a relatively good case. Originally, I thought Gotard looked way too brash to be scum, but then he went on the "wasting time on me" tangent which felt scummy, discussing opinions on anyone is useful even if the target is later proven town. | ||
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fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I decided to do a braindump right at night action deadline because I'm a little concerned about shaking up any well thought out town night action decisions, or giving scum additional info to consider in whatever nefarious stuff they're up to. -------------------------- These are the players that I have concerns and questions about, listed more or less from most to least concerning. LoneMeow – hasn’t really addressed the concerns that have been raised about him. Apparently ignored the numerous arguments that Gotard made little sense as scum – leaning strongly scum (12 posts) A ton of other people have built nice cases about why LoneMeow is scum. I agree, and I'm not going to write a reiteration of all that. Onegu – was leaning quite town, but his first post of the night phase was pretty defensive and that sounded a bit of an alarm. On June 08 2013 17:27 Onegu wrote: I put my vote on someone I thought was scum, why is that a bad thing. I am not the only one either. I wanted to check back in before the deadline but I slept. I dont think me voteing for someone who may or maynot be lynched is such a bad thing, I didnt have strong feelings on either of the two main canidates for myself to justify puting a vote on them. ^^ this is nothing like what I would have written in a similar circumstance, which is not alignment indicative, but the defensive "why is that a bad thing", "I am not the onlhy one" "I don't think blah blah is such a bad things" etc just really seems defensive, and it stands out against his other posts. Yavanna – leaning scum for reasons I’ve already mentioned, and I agree with SpicyDinosaur’s observations as well. It’s somewhat softened by iV’s counter argument. Disappeared, no vote down. to be replaced? Umasi – I'm retracting my very slight lean-town. It could be a personality thing – continuing to defend positions that he’s apparently abandoned, but he’s done that on first iV and now Gotard. SpicyDinosaur’s night-talk case is relevant. I’m not going to rewrite it. StimAddict – Super enthusiastic. Tunneling LoneMeow. Focused on potential modkills. Cheerleading? There was a ton of cheerleading from nearly everyone after the card flip, so I’m mostly discounting it as a mafia culture thing for the experienced players and an enthusiasm thing for the new players. StimAddict’s level of enthusiasm stood out a little, though, as did his huge level of concern about lurker/non-voter modkills. IOw his vote was parked someplace useless, which I don’t mind too much given when he caught up and his bigger concern than which of the 2 main bandwagons was the lynchee was to plead with apparently non-present players to vote before deadline. His after nightfall posts have been better, and I especially liked his post with a suggestion for a vig if we have one. I have some minor issues with a few other players. Xzav could be a lot more experienced than he appears. I’ve played forum mafia with a few IRL mafia players who made awesome transitions, and one of them is a scary scum player. He was pretty braggadocio and know-it-all in his early games. xZav grabbed onto me as a font of wisdom about some things, but appeared to discount my concerns that the Gotard lynch was a bad idea. I’m also a little concerned that he (and a couple others) showed no paranoia to speak of about me. I even posted an intentional clanger or two and got hardly a murmur from anyone. That lack raised my neck hairs a tad. iV’s relative slowness to join the Firere bandwagon also bothers me a little now that we’ve seen the flip. But, people excel at different parts of the game, so it’s not something I’d pursue without more reasons further along in the game. That's really the only thing he's done that I could pick a nit with, so I should probably stfu. | ||
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Spicydinosaur
United States382 Posts
On June 09 2013 08:59 fferyllt wrote: I’m also a little concerned that he (and a couple others) showed no paranoia to speak of about me. I even posted an intentional clanger or two and got hardly a murmur from anyone. That lack raised my neck hairs a tad. Not sure why you are bringing this up. If people think you are town then why try to intentionally mess with that perception? It serves no town purpose whatsoever. We are in the scum hunting business so no need to hound on you if people believe you are town. | ||
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fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I agree that most of the suspicion should go to LoneMeow next. | ||
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