Boardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power
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Mocsta
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i'll /in if allowed? | ||
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im going to "attempt" to consolidate my posts. Dont take the lower activity as a scum read ffs. | ||
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Stripes was definitely your best movie I loved that mud wrestling after all. k.. Spam is out of my system, good to go! | ||
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On April 03 2013 13:35 Oatsmaster wrote: /in Not you!! Im trying to reduce the spam OK! | ||
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On April 03 2013 18:33 Oatsmaster wrote: I honestly dont spam. None of my filters go over 15 pages IIRC. Sigh this is Tue shit I'm talking about lol U never get what I mean and we end up starting shit feasts. I give up lol | ||
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Lol.. thats tablet auto correct for ya or is it? o.0 | ||
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cos i picked [o][0] | ||
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On April 04 2013 11:08 sinani206 wrote: hi scum he cant be scum hes not in my qt? Whoops, i just scum slipped lynch me now pls | ||
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that fucker finished #1 in the draft, twice | ||
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On April 04 2013 11:32 gonzaw wrote: I'll post minimally, but will give advice for mafia life when I do, and instantly catch all scum Yeah don't do that thing I said in pre-game unless Palmar or something bullies all of you into doing it at once (it's obviously not going to work). Just pre-game lighthearted fun. Nice 180 Gonzaw. Guess your plan relies on unveiling the qt link o.0? Anything else you want to share? | ||
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On April 04 2013 11:41 gonzaw wrote: Wisdom: When I reach my 3k post milestone, I'll make a huge case against all scum in the game (and be right obviously), exactly on my 3K post! (hopefully I remember it and don't forget about the milestone like the 2 previous times lol) Thats a cool idea actually, I will have to log that away K, spam mode over /confirm | ||
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On April 04 2013 12:49 geript wrote: @Shelvocke So your plan is to just keep everything hidden in order to prevent Mafia from getting any extra knowledge? No, I do not believe that is the intent at all. Context: (1) We have no idea of the draft order (yet) (2) Even when we know the draft order, we have no idea who is town who is not. I think someone raised giving roles out based on draft order. If you want to risk that go ahead, but its also could be a way to fall into the "pick a claimed role -> you are now VT" trap. This whole draft system inherently is filled with WIFOM (including for scum); and as proven in past games, some of us *WILL* remain as vanilla. My 2c: I am going to submit my 2 numbers. Once I know my draft number, I will *only* then start thinking about what role(s) I want to put my hand up for. I personally think its better to have *a* role, than no role. As an aside Im not sure how big a deal the janitor flip is. The difference between here and personality 2 is that we know the role exists, and is of finite duration (48 hrs). Yes, there is potential to follow false leads from a "false" flip, however, one thing I noted about Personality2 was that many of the believers of Corazon innocence, were very shocked post-janitor flip. I think a townie should be able to prove innocence via more means than just a green flip. | ||
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On April 04 2013 13:05 yamato77 wrote: I kind of like the idea of town "assigning" certain roles to people. I think most of town should be able to agree on 1-2 decent townreads to deny mafia roles with. It's also very hard for mafia to BE a top townread of an entire thread, so there's that.. What malarkey are you spewing forth Yamato? The draft is in 24hrs. You are going to have 1 or 2 decent town reads, when the current game is all "foreplay" for roles? I didnt mind your first post; it had some sentiments similar to my post. But this post just now; I can not endorse. Everygame, people say: mafia high activity will expose them at the end. Well I say: that could be too late, especially for a "town read" with 3 nukes because we thought they were town during the pre-draft. If you can muster a large enough group to support this concept; best of luck to you. Know that I will not be participating. Full stop. | ||
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On April 04 2013 13:08 yamato77 wrote: I like this plan the more I think about it, actually. Ir simply relies on townies playing very town, which is easy enough in today's TL. I just came out of "The Game" so you will have to excuse me if we differ with opinion on this matter. For me personally regardless of player list Early Game: I put the trust in myself to either blend in as scum; or stand out as a contributor as town. Regardless, I am not relying on "town" to act "town". As I said before, if you want to follow this path. Fine. But right now, I have no means to knowing what you or sharrant or any other plan pushers alignment is. And hence, as I said before, I choose not to participate. Why? The stuff you are speaking of, is essentially common sense pro-town stuff that could be endorsed by town or scum. I am not going to comment further on this. Best of luck with what ever path you intend to choose pre-draft. | ||
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On April 04 2013 13:13 yamato77 wrote: Yes, I can be reasonably certain that I will have 1-2 town reads that I am confident in within 24 hours. I am also certain that there will be enough people that agree with me that we can deny mafia the role by using them. If you aren't I'm sorry for you. It's not even about activity necessarily, as scum can be ACTIVE, but easy to catch. the function of general activity of scum is to BLEND IN, because under the scrutiny this would require, most mafia would simply not hold up. ALL OF TOWN would be looking at you and deciding on your alignment, which is a good thing. Mafia would be hard-pressed to garner enough real support, and if they did, I would be SHOCKED. There are plenty of people in this player list that can garner support as scum; either by blending skill *OR* reputation. I simply do not agree. | ||
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On April 04 2013 13:14 Sharrant wrote: How are you sure of the duration of the janitor? I believe you have misinterpreted it. I believe when the janitor uses his powers the day post will contain the names of the deceased and no information. And that information will not be displayed later. The only one who will know the flips of that day are mafia members. With this much KP we could be looking at upwards of 4 bodies if we don't get good protective roles. That's far too much information to let scum control. Am I correct in how the Janitor role functions? Do you think that's a role we can risk letting scum have? "Janitor" Busy always cleaning up after other people's mess. You love your job so much though that you'll even clean up dead bodies. During the Night you may PM me that you want to clean up all the dead bodies in Town. No player's role or alignment will be revealed upon death for that upcoming Day. Since you are cleaning up the bodies however, you will learn the role and alignment of all the bodies you clean up. You can only use this ability once. My interpretation is that after 48 hrs (Day cycle) the real flips are revealed. | ||
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On April 04 2013 13:19 Keirathi wrote: Shooting off to lunch.You're interpretation is wrong (at least with how Janitors normally work). The red part that you quoted means that none of the following Day's flips (aka the night kills) will be revealed AT ALL. Never. But if that is the case than yes. I think its a good idea to remove from the scum power list. | ||
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On April 04 2013 13:17 Keirathi wrote: Serious question for you, yamato: What if the 1-2 people you have "solid town reads" on by tomorrow when the picking phase starts are #22 and #23 in the draft order? On April 04 2013 13:26 yamato77 wrote: Same question, I presume. We pick tomorrow, which gives us 24 hours to FORMULATE the town reads. We then look at the draft order, and see if we have good town reads on the first 4-5 people in the draft order. Outside of that, we can't control it very much, but if we CAN deny mafia roles through this method, WE SHOULD. if we can't, oh well, but we've at least attempted to gain an advantage. The plan doesn't hurt town if it doesn't work for some reason, it can only help if it does. This plan is relying too much on "gut feel" luck from 24hrs notoriously referenced as "subject to change" and not enough on cold hard fact. Yes, roles such as the janitor have the potential to cause havok to town; Yes, it would be fantastic if an early-draft town was willing to sacrifice themselves as a "VT" by choosing janitor But, to expect - or plan - a "subject to change" town read to do that.. i dunno. Its all risk/reward. A great town player may provide more value with an alternative role playing to their strengths, than sacrificing to be VT to remove a mafia role (which could be used poorly). I stand by my original sentiment: On April 04 2013 13:03 Mocsta wrote: + Show Spoiler + Context: (1) We have no idea of the draft order (yet) (2) Even when we know the draft order, we have no idea who is town who is not. I think someone raised giving roles out based on draft order. If you want to risk that go ahead, but its also could be a way to fall into the "pick a claimed role -> you are now VT" trap. This whole draft system inherently is filled with WIFOM (including for scum); and as proven in past games, some of us *WILL* remain as vanilla. My 2c: I am going to submit my 2 numbers. Once I know my draft number, I will *only* then start thinking about what role(s) I want to put my hand up for. I personally think its better to have *a* role, than no role. | ||
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I somewhat understand the position of Mocsta, which is that he sees the flaw in the plan being that town may fuck up and accidentally give the role to a mafia. This is only so bad as town lets it be, as the alternative to attempting to deny the role is giving it to mafia anyway, which is what you'd be doing if mafia somehow was the consensus town read from this period. Mafia should be trying to "look town" anyway, to some extent, so it's not like the implementation of this plan changes or alters anything that scum would do, or hurts town in any way. Worst case scenario is just as bad as doing nothing, and the best case scenario is quite pro-town. It's a win for even trying.[QUOTE] Yes. You raise a valid point here in retrospect. At the least (and of more value to me) this plans casts doubt in the eligibility of scum to pick key roles as they will remain vanilla due to duplication. The knowledge the op gives is. Scum kp is fixed to 1. If I was scum, priority would be for kp roles. Hence, remaining vanilla is of much worse consequence to scum than town. + Show Spoiler + pre game I was thinking assassin as scum, as you can get free town kills and then if under pressure target a scummy town as red and hopefully get confirmed as town Vote rigging is nice, but doesn't have the same certainty as a scum under heat that can activate admiral ackbar. Overall I think there is too much WiFOM involved in having a solid town read be in the top of the draft to force participation from players. However, I still think this discussion is definitely of merit to continue. I repeat. The consequence of scum staying vanilla due to duplication of role is significantly worse than town. | ||
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On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good. 1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT. 2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting. 3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour 4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway. I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Can u please extrapolate point 3. I'm not following the logic flow of how your pretext arrives to this outcome. | ||
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On April 04 2013 19:58 Restraining Order wrote: But having VTs is also very informative, so you really don't need to mind either way. Im trying to read between the lines here: Are you advocating that, "Forced" VTs claim their intended role pick? That way, if we trust the source, we know that the role is in play? If so, I think this is a brilliant idea. | ||
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On April 04 2013 21:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Depending on circumstances. I don't think this is a good idea at all if you are meaning forced VT's should claim when D1 starts. I am happy to here more from you regarding this. The thing is, you can claim an *Attempt* on any role and thus become VT - and not a single person other than the hosts can dispute it. The VT claim is not to separate people into a confirmed town/confirmed scum situation. In my opinion, it is to set up people for whether they are lying or not; and for strong town reads that are VTs, perhaps identify roles in play. For those lying/caught lying: it is then up to town to decide whether they are lying to protect their blue role; or lying because they are scum. In short, we still need to scum hunt effectively. This just becomes a tool we may be able to use to our advantage in the future. | ||
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And how to plan to confirm ppl chose a role or not? I just like the idea of KISS, figure it out when you drafted based on order. I have 3 roles im interested in more than others; i assume everyone else is in similar situation | ||
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On April 04 2013 21:17 yamato77 wrote: If we do have town reads we trust, and they are picking late in the order, it might be a good idea to use them to check for these roles. Blatant +1 here Very wise words from Yamato here. Let me repeat. On April 04 2013 21:17 yamato77 wrote: If we do have town reads we trust, and they are picking late in the order, it might be a good idea to use them to check for these roles. | ||
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On April 04 2013 21:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Absolutely correct. You have no way of telling who is telling the truth and you might end up lynching a lot of good town roles just to figure out who is lying. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=11#206 As I mentioned prior. So far, I disagree. i think this provides us a tool with which to facilitate scum hunting at some point in the game. To use the claimed VT information to confirm people is ridiculous. - If that is your fixation, then I can see your point of view clearly. | ||
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On April 04 2013 21:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: Let's say you try to pick CPRdoctor as #3. You get vanilla. You claim you tried to pick CPRdoctor and that you didn't get it when D1 starts. Scum have a member in #1 or #2. You just gave out the town CPRdoc. Scum can even random a kill on #1 or #2 and if the CPRdoc flips town, you have no way of knowing if the other guy is mafia, if the #3 picker is mafia. What's next? Do you kill those guys too? Just to be sure they are not lying? If not, why did you gave out scum role information in the first place? Or perhaps we just figured out the scum CPRdoctor. I think as said before, some ppl may be going for "superstar' roles and become Vanilla. i see value in those disclaiming that the role exists in the game. It is then up to town to decide how much credence they want to give to the claim. | ||
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On April 04 2013 21:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: I dont see a point debating this.Why do you think so? CPRdoctor is not a bad role if used right. It's a fucking multi shot night vigi! Its a role either alignment can want; perhaps even moreso as a personal preference. | ||
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On April 04 2013 22:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you just argued against yourself? As i said there is no way of knowing who is telling the truth and who isn't and all you are doing by vanilla claims is give scum information about town roles. Are you a knob head or something? You are the one who said, #3 who tries for CPR outs the town CPR at #1 or #2. I was pointing out the fallacy in your logic. i.e. could be town or scum.. not just town. | ||
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On April 04 2013 22:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: My point is exactly that. You can't know. How are you going to figure that out? Seriously, your starting to piss me off. Find where I state I will believe the claim? I am saying it is a tool that can be used to catch liars blah blah later down the track. | ||
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your = you're | ||
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because its information. just because we have it now, doesnt mean we need to process it now. its something that can be stored away, and pulled out post flips, or watever. im really surprised we have to comment about basics of mafia play here? | ||
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On April 04 2013 22:13 Oatsmaster wrote: ??? So why dont we all roleclaim at the start of the game then? In my humble opinion; the two events are trying to achieve different outcomes. mass Roleclaim: as far as I understand it, is an attempt to solve the game setup; and establish individuals as confirmed town/scum. Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum. I see a clear dichotomy. | ||
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On April 04 2013 22:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: EBWOP: It's a possibility that they are town. If you are going to lynch them/cop them you are going to use roles/lynches that could be used otherwise just to figure out their alignment based only on "they could be scum". If you are wrong about them being mafia, you give mafia information about town roles and where they are. What if mafia kills the town CPRdoctor on N1, and they have a copy cat? What if they swap the role? People high on draft order tend to die early on either way because it's reasonable to assume they have the best roles in the game. By outing those roles you are giving mafia opportunities to narrow the possibilities where the good roles actually are. I think where all this comes into play is that you are treating everything literally. Perhaps when it comes to a "plan" that has not been fleshed out; that is the natural assumption to make. i.e. 1 hard rule that applies to all situations. To me, the whole concept isnt black/white. But thats the whole point of this discussion, to brainstorm / refine / implement. Prior, I was not a fan of yam/sharrant force the draft pick plan. I still am not. However, I do see merit if people choose to claim the role that made them VT. I am not trying to enforce this as mandatory by any means; I am hoping with enough information out there, people can make an informed decision for themselves. | ||
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On April 04 2013 22:24 Oatsmaster wrote: And if we know the roles in the game, how does that help us? Info is a lazy answer dude. You are asking hypothetical questions, to hypothetical situations Oatsmaster. I prefer to deal with the now. I am just going to have to agree to disagree with you. | ||
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Im catching up on the thread and had to take a pause to reply to this. Not sure what eventuated, but, this is certainly not a scum claim. Whilst I appreciate some think i am town, and think I am worthy of being a top 5 draft pick. I submitted my numbers yesterday. Not that it matters, but I RNG'd both numbers. So; considering I submitted numbers already, I dont find it out of the question that others did as well. ======= I played with (scum) RO in Mafia LX. I dont have a strong town read on him; but I have noticed he is significantly more active this game than LX. Before calling him scum, it may pay to read his filter that game (its only 2 or 3 pages in a 200page game) | ||
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I like yamato reads a lot. In particular the Palmar take is very interesting (i.e. feels the need to explain his motives) ====== @ Rayn Im not hard defending RO; I dont know where I stand with him yet. Im saying your rational is not alignment indicative. I thought it might also be beneficial to provide awareness of a scum filter for him. | ||
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On April 05 2013 10:25 geript wrote: Mocsta I'm not getting a good feeling about Rayn. Any thoughts about him? Also, you know Oats better than I do. How do you feel about him? Rayn: I dont have a firm opinion. I think coming up with a plan, and sticking with it: is alignment null. Im still assessing how he is going about pushing his agenda - which is alignment indicative. To answer your question in short: If i had a gun to my head i would say: weak town (subject to change) Oats: In short; weak town. I am finding that some of his prodding has showed insight into breaking down others thought processes. In fact, some of the blunt questions he asked me yesterday, I had to think twice about it because on first glance it looked like rubbish, but as I was formulating a response, I realised he had a solid point. My issue with Oats, and hence why the read is weak is that I am finding his play much more disruptive than usual. I dont have a problem with challenging others ideas; but he doesnt seem to be challenging them to grow the ideas; rather to kill the ideas. ====== I have 2 very strong town reads (i.e. if we went down a forced draft pick, I would trust them with a scum power role) As for scum reads: Someone on my radar to evaluate is AustinMCC. I need to re-read him, but the sentiment I noticed when catching up was: he came in gave a nice summary of discussion and then left Whilst not ncessarily scum indicative: it matches his play from personality 2 to a tee. Including the weeooo police start. | ||
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On April 05 2013 10:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: and yeah, RO is scum i think. Can you walk me through this please. From what I saw, the only build up you had to claiming RO is scum is: On April 05 2013 03:28 Restraining Order wrote: Ok, you can keep townhunting them townreads if you want, I sent in my numbers already. They shouldn't be too obtrusive to whatever nonsense you'll come up with, so it's okay. Where I am having trouble following you is: I dont see how *only* scum would would or could make a statement like this. | ||
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On April 05 2013 10:46 yamato77 wrote: Mocsta, would you walk me through some of the things about Austin's play this game that are similar to Personality 2? I was casting a FoS. Much the same as you did with Palmar - Both need to input more. If you want more specifics: I recall when he entered the thread: that he presented a well written summary of everything that transpired to date; and then finished with an improvement to the concepts discussed. This can inherently be associated as pro-town behaviour. The thing is: guys like AustinMCC play like this whether town or scum; so I find the action itself "alignment null". Instead, I am paying more attention to how he goes about pushing what he "believes in". So my problem then becomes his disappearing act. After motivating town and presenting pathways to proceed; where was AustinMCC when the the thread took a turn away from "role picking" to 'town hunting". He was trying to direct play before; so why not re-direct the thread back to "what he believed in". Perhaps he was just busy, which is why he is on my radar to track further to re-evaluate when information comes up. As for personality2, he basically did the same thing. Came in and gave pro-town spiels on how to proceed; but rarely followed up and pushed it hard. He also tried to continually challenge marv's ideas to help "grow" them, but always led marv down the wrong track. Basically he plays as the right hand man/key advisor, that is actually not on your side. VERY DANGEROUS. With the police sirens; he used them in personality 2 to tell people to stop shitting up the thread. I think he took a similar approach here with the "summary intervention". | ||
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I was [8][12] Surprised I was so far down the list. | ||
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On April 05 2013 10:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: RO is failing to contribute to anything at all. See his filter. No more need to be said. Good kill on D1/N1. I still dont follow. What has there been to contribute? We have been talking about plans; just because someone disagrees with you, does not make them scum. I think this is clutching at straws, and is providing preferential treatment. RO duly pointed out others that also did not agree with the plan; yet you seem to be singling him out specifically. If you want traction: I am going to need more than "failing to contribute". Otherwise, this looks like a weak attempt to "scum hunt" - which can indeed be construed as scummy. In short, all I am asking for is: Why are ROs actions specifically scummy, and can not be a townie that shares a different mindset to that of yourself? To answer: read his filter.. is not an appropriate answer, because I already disagree with you.. you're meant to be trying to convince me...show me what you see | ||
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There are many uncertainties in that list (as in barely any filter to even attempt to make a read) e.g. Sinani/VE/OO etc This kinda throws out any coordination attempts. My suggestion is to just choose what you think is beneficial. And if town in the top 5, perhaps have a crack at removing janitor etc from play. Best of luck, may scum be vanilla | ||
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On April 05 2013 11:09 yamato77 wrote: I went 11,11 wtf how am I bottom BM musta chose 11,11 too | ||
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On April 05 2013 11:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: RO is failing to contribute to the plans provided pre-picking phase by " lolololollllll, i sent my numbers, can't change, fu all,, i don't need to do shit.." Kill him. Did you read what I wrote? Geript asked before what I thought of you prior. The longer you cast out scum suspicion like this.. the quicker my read of you is dropping and the quicker I am getting concerned that you are high up on the draft list. I asked you to explain why RO specifically is acting scummy, and can not be a townie who disagrees with you. I have yet to receive a valid answer Fact: i submitted my #'s yesterday as well; and was not a supporter of the plans. Did you miss my commentary with yamato yesterday? Just because I was willing to discuss plans in detail, and RO hasnt been as much.. does not make either of us town or scum. This whole phase is foreplay; and the action to discuss is itself alignment null. Im still not clear why you cast RO as scum for this action; yet leave others alone. | ||
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gonzaw Austinmcc Keirathi Palmar Mocsta On April 05 2013 11:15 Restraining Order wrote: These 5 players picked [8] as their first numbers. This means, at least 4 of those 5 are town. I know Im town, even though my [8] was RNG. So; yam finds palmar suspicious I find austinmcc suspicious Who in that list is your "?certain?' scum read. | ||
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Wow, we are not on the same page at all. | ||
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On April 05 2013 11:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: BLARFFFFFFF::::: RO is using "i do what i want to" as an "evidence" to not contribute. How has he contributed at all? Show me. I personally dont value pre-draft contribution as highly as you do. Perhaps that is the crux of our differences. Let me re-direct your attention to Sinani. This gentlment is in the top 5 for the draft; yet this is essentially his sole contribution On April 05 2013 02:50 sinani206 wrote: The real problem with all of these plans is that the entire town has to cooperate. As we can see (Caller), not everyone is willing to do that. I've sent in numbers that agree with rayn's system, but I really don't think that it's going to help town any more than randomly picking numbers. I sincerely hope this person is not on your radar; JUST because he "sent in numbers that agree with rayn's system" Because, if he actually did; he wouldnt be in the top 5 would he.... | ||
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On April 05 2013 11:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Interested in finding out too. This is pissing me off. You are piss-farting around and shitting up the thread with your baseless accusations. And now I notice that you are playing in two games both in Day 1. I hope you start taking this game seriously; because a sole contribution as a "plan" is hardly alignment indicative. My eye is officially on you now. | ||
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Im not going to bother posting anymore till the game starts due to the below. On April 05 2013 11:13 Mocsta wrote: Anyways, looking at the top 5 to 10 ppl. There are many uncertainties in that list (as in barely any filter to even attempt to make a read) e.g. Sinani/VE/OO etc This kinda throws out any coordination attempts. My suggestion is to just choose what you think is beneficial. And if town in the top 5, perhaps have a crack at removing janitor etc from play. Best of luck, may scum be vanilla In short: there is too much uncertainty - in particular with Rayn who has gone off the rails since achieving what he desired. In fact: since the draft was released, Rayn hasnt seem to give a fuck about coordinating any plan; he just wants RO gone. Think about that town. See you in 24hrs. | ||
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On April 05 2013 12:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: M_Z: He is non- committal, that makes me think he might be scum. Nice regress. | ||
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On April 05 2013 12:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: What, you tell then who ABSOLUTELY are scum ?? You. On April 05 2013 10:25 geript wrote: Mocsta I'm not getting a good feeling about Rayn. Any thoughts about him? Also, you know Oats better than I do. How do you feel about him? On April 05 2013 10:42 Mocsta wrote: Rayn: I dont have a firm opinion. I think coming up with a plan, and sticking with it: is alignment null. Im still assessing how he is going about pushing his agenda - which is alignment indicative. To answer your question in short: If i had a gun to my head i would say: weak town (subject to change) On April 05 2013 11:54 Mocsta wrote: *<To Rayn>* You are piss-farting around and shitting up the thread with your baseless accusations. And now I notice that you are playing in two games both in Day 1. I hope you start taking this game seriously; because a sole contribution as a "plan" is hardly alignment indicative. My eye is officially on you now. On April 05 2013 12:19 Mocsta wrote: In short: there is too much uncertainty - in particular with Rayn who has gone off the rails since achieving what he desired. In fact: since the draft was released, Rayn hasnt seem to give a fuck about coordinating any plan; he just wants RO gone. Your play in short: Classic mafia. You are trying to cast RO as scum, because he didnt push a plan. The corollary is that you consider yourself super pro-town because you did push a plan. Great.. but what have you done since the draft order was released? Absolutely nothing but shit the thread. You have not followed through with your plan, now that you received your prize. And you did not berate any "weak reads" for being up there on the list and not endorsing your plan. Your actions may be generic pro-town; but your motives are clearly not in towns favour. You sir, are scum. | ||
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On April 05 2013 12:30 gonzaw wrote: Rayn, even if RO is scum, you'd be making it easier for him to "hide" by....doing whatever the hell you are doing. Fact: You have 5% justified reasons for thinking RO is scum. Nobody agrees with you Fact: The more you tunnel him, the more you antagonize others, and the more everybody will start defending RO to react against you. Therefore if RO is scum, the more you do whatever you do, the more people will keep ignoring his scummyness and focus on defending him to counter your unjustified tunnel So yes, hear my advice (just filter me if it's too much work to search it), and take a step back, you are not doing anybody any favours. Hell, even if you are scum you are not doing your scumteam any favours by being so "obvious". Im thinking this nincompoop thinks he established enough town cred to push a weak case. I have seen stupid townies do what rayn is doing (i.e push a tunneled case); but my problem extends that he dropped his plan altogether once he achieved a top 5 draft pick. | ||
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On April 05 2013 12:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Mocsta tell me who has done anything productive after draft order? There were only 2 major plan pushers pre-draft. You and yamato. Everyone else was contributiing to *your* plan yamato is so far down the draft; you become the de facto person that pushed a plan - that could achieve something post-draft. The first part of your plan was giving 5 ppl a top 5 ranking in the draft. *YOU* were in the top 5 list. On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]): raynpelikoneet - 3 Geript - 6 yamato - last Mocsta - middle Sharrant - middle So even though Geript has been present post-draft, and was a key part of your original plan. You made ZERO effort to consolidate the plan with him. Interesting is it not? Lemme guess; Geript thought you might be scum, so you cant work with him. So if that is the case. Why aren't you trying to develop a rapore with: Sn0_Man, ObviousOne, VisceraEyes or Sinani. Your actions simply do not make sense from a town point of view. You got your cake - the top 5 pick - and now proceed to ditch *your* whole plan away. Yes, gonzaw has a point; "why go to an effort to look pro-town & then proceed to chuck it away" and do a complete attitude 180. I have no strong answer for that, as it all points to WIFOM. Regardless, I have seen both town and scum do stupid things. So his WIFOM has not swayed me away from you. | ||
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On April 05 2013 12:51 gonzaw wrote: I wouldn't call what he did trolling. I agree with some stuff he's saying, for instance Artanis does seem to be flying under the radar. Either he's making sense as town and being playful in his own way....or I'll need more time to figure him out as scum. Both of those make me give little attention to him, in the mafia-seeking ways I dont get how Artanis has floated under the radar. The guy made an effort to at least three times bring his RNG idea back to the fore. Not only that, but when someone criticises the idea due to "accountability" he takes it on the chin, and appears to go back to the drawing board. That doesnt make the guy town; but make the heuristic for him being scum - void. | ||
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On April 05 2013 12:59 geript wrote: Mocsta can you please say something Mocsta-ish so I'll know that you're town please? WTF does this even mean? What have i done that is not town Mocsta-ish? This is really surprising to me. I thought I have made a good effort to consolidate my posts, and be meaningul? | ||
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On April 05 2013 13:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Since when has "heuristic" become such a buzzword around here? Whenever you use that word y'all just sound like you're trying cover up the fact that you don't actually have a point. Regardless I'm going to bed. Whatever. Why do you choose to comment on my choice of word; and not my dispute of whether Artanis is indeed flying under the radar. You threw in early to the thread, that you despise SPAM. Yet I can classify the post I am replying to as nothing other than SPAM. | ||
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On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote: I'm not saying that you haven't done anything not town Mocsta-ish. There's just a very specific heuristic that town Mocsta seems to follow that you haven't hit on yet for me. I'm leaning town on you but until you get that one aspect I have a hard time putting you there fully. As for your posting, I really like it. Well I may not exhibit it, whatever it is. Im trying to not get involved in live debates this game; and react on the fly without proof reading. I havent been 100% successful so far, but trying hard none-the-less. Since you are online, can you please comment on Rayn. So far, it seems only Gonzaw has shared insight; and we are of differing opinion. Where do you stand? | ||
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On April 04 2013 21:17 yamato77 wrote: Mr. Yam, just wanted to remind you of this. I agreed pre-draft. BUT...If we do have town reads we trust, and they are picking late in the order, it might be a good idea to use them to check for these roles. Now that we are post-draft; I am not sure how useful this is anymore. Lets say you try and confirm CPR; & we know its in play because you are VT. What then? Its not like you can force a roleclaim If scum is CPR they will deny it. If town is CPR they may deny it. Heck, someone might fake claim it. Perhaps its best to just attempt for an "unpopular' role that you think you can play to its strengths? The # of roles >>> the # of players. | ||
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On April 05 2013 13:29 geript wrote: I think he's feeling overloaded or something similar. There's a point when everyone moved towards focusing on him more than focusing on what he was trying to espouse that he seems to have snapped for lack of a better term and switched into some very different mode. His play looks different from NMM39 when he was scum but I'm not sure how much that's worth. He doesn't feel like he's got a filter on him so I'm leaning bad town on him. So in short: Regarding Rayn - whilst you acknowledge poor play currently; you do not see scum validity in him going 180 on his plan? Is that correct? | ||
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On April 04 2013 21:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: Let's say you try to pick CPRdoctor as #3. You get vanilla. You claim you tried to pick CPRdoctor and that you didn't get it when D1 starts. Scum have a member in #1 or #2. You just gave out the town CPRdoc. Scum can even random a kill on #1 or #2 and if the CPRdoc flips town, you have no way of knowing if the other guy is mafia, if the #3 picker is mafia. What's next? Do you kill those guys too? Just to be sure they are not lying? If not, why did you gave out scum role information in the first place? On April 04 2013 21:52 Mocsta wrote: Or perhaps we just figured out the scum CPRdoctor. I think as said before, some ppl may be going for "superstar' roles and become Vanilla. i see value in those disclaiming that the role exists in the game. It is then up to town to decide how much credence they want to give to the claim. On April 04 2013 21:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why do you think so? CPRdoctor is not a bad role if used right. It's a fucking multi shot night vigi! @Rayn Can we please continue this discussion. This exchange just doesnt sit right with me. + it looks like you are setting yourself up for a CPR request. If I am reading this correctly, you believe a CPR role is not a bad *TOWN* role if 'used right'. i.e. it didn't cross your mind, that it would be beneficial to scum; nor a high priority scum pick How so? The CPR doctor kills anyone you protect, that isnt attacked that night. As town, this is one of the most WIFOM inducing roles. i.e. Lets protect "XYZ" the town leader, because he surely will be shot.... and if scum doesnt shoot him, you just killed the town leader. So yes, I would like you to extrapolate on why you think CPR is a beneficial role to town; as opposed to a role worth ensuring scum can not use. | ||
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On April 05 2013 13:55 Keirathi wrote: Sup fellas, I'm back. @geript: Only 1 investigative role and no protection roles in your lists? That seems like a recipe for disaster. yeah, cant say im a fan of that list. Im surprised america has been relegated to a POD C list. and awesome town roles like the witch seem to have low emphasis and also is in POD C. Hooker is dangerous with lots of investigative roles though. I wonder: If you use KP on someone that is infected.. do you still get infected? If so, thats a pretty dangerous role too (even if cancelled by medic protection) | ||
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On April 05 2013 14:09 geript wrote: Point taken. Perhaps I was thinking that town would be smart enough to not fire on a consistent basis. Probably a bad idea in hindsight. I'd still like to see your list. Insert Personality 2, and the 5 nukes sl0osh gave out. If I recall, 4 ppl instantly fired them (all town, launching at town). | ||
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On April 05 2013 14:47 geript wrote: It's important to balance not shooting with shooting. When everyone shoots, it's likely to be a recipe for disaster. yeah, thats why for town i like roles like "capitalist" which wasnt in ya pod. You get 1 KP, and 3 role-checks. Nice balance. Either way, can you please reply to my follow question regarding Rayn. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=32#631 | ||
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On April 05 2013 14:58 geript wrote: Sorry missed that question. The more I play the less full 180's seems like 'sure thing scum tells' to me; as a matter of fact, IIRC 90% of the 180's in the last game were done by town. I'd say it's suspicious and worth looking into him more, but there was a quote from the VE/BH mason log that it reminds me of it boiled down to something like "I don't want to push Geript into a corner because the more we do that the likelier he is to look like scum and prevent us from being able to avoid a mislynch. Instead I'd rather try and interact with him on his scumreads etc." I think VE's strategy is a very good one. I think it's suspicious but not to the point that it's a full scum tell for me. I'd much rather try and interact with him in a way to not lose him in case he is town. Fair points that are applicable to anyone. Look, though my emphasis is on Rayn, I am not tunneled on him. If he proves his innocence, I will move on. But having reviewed my interactions with him, I am struggling to see how he can even be a remote town read. (From my POV) At best he is null. ==== As an aside, I think holding off lynching candidates in the top 5 draft is terrible: just because there is a risk of lynching a townie that held an awesome role. If someone be scummy, you lynch them. Full Stop. | ||
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On April 05 2013 15:09 geript wrote: Thank you Moc, now I know that you are town. errmm OK o.0 Will have to talk more about this post-game. Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know? Im asking because, Im still trying to figure out if that affects my perception of you. | ||
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On April 05 2013 15:19 ObviousOne wrote: Hey Mocsta! I'll direct this question to you and Yamato since he's all AMA right now. + Show Spoiler + I have two games played together with Vivax (LX and Fruity) and I was interested in getting a preliminary read on him based on what we've seen so far. I did a (pretty weak) meta case on him in LX and I have a not-entirely-unfamiliar handle on his play, but I wanted to see if my read agreed with yours. Surprisingly he's been talking a lot of sense, but he's got Rayn as his #1 town read according to his filter: On April 05 2013 03:19 Vivax wrote: Supporting gonzaw and rayn for high picks so far. Objections? I suggest everyone makes a list of his top 5 townreads to send in highest numbers, and we find the ones most agree on. If there's someone mostly suggesting scum in his list, we will find out later. That's why scum will try to stop this plan. 1. Rayn 2. Gonzaw 3. Vivax (duh) 4.-5. : To find out. It seems the reason for this was because Rayn's opinion was that there was a low likelihood of there being scum in the most active/outspoken of townies for D1. This doesn't seem to jive with the concept that people are being active/outspoken about disagreeing that we should have had a plan to begin with. Each time I read the next quote I get more and more confused about what Vivax is actually saying here, to be honest. It seems as though Vivax is reading Rayn as town because Rayn is active/engaged, but Rayn is conversely suspicious of people who are active and engaged. Is this some kind of process of elimination or how did Vivax form his read? I'm not seeing it... On April 05 2013 02:50 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 05 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: It doesn't matter if they proposed good or bad ideas. Mafia is probably not going to push any ideas at all (because they all have a backdoor - because there are so many roles). Everyone pushing ideas regardless if they are good/bad are probably town at this point, especially the guys who are pushing ultimately bad ideas. :D I would probably support you as candidate cause I don't think that there can be mostly mafia among the most active and engaged candidates you proposed, so that makes you look quite townie. ##Pick #1: Rayn I guess I should extend this question to Vivax as well, then. Vivax, does your town read on Rayn waver at all based on what I've demonstrated before (that Rayn's scum reads are all people pushing against the current/trending of town's intentions during pre-picks). Moc, Yam, do you think Vivax' town read of Rayn is unfounded? Maybe you can explain it better than I understand it since I could be misinterpreting it. I will look into Vivax for you, but will have to read the filter first. As for rayn, unfortunately, you just blew my mind... The rayn quotes identify that he thinks non-planners are scummy. Hence, technically, his actions towards RO as weird as they were, could be substantiated as town through that mentality. e.g. On April 05 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: Mafia is probably not going to push any ideas at all (because they all have a backdoor - because there are so many roles). Everyone pushing ideas regardless if they are good/bad are probably town at this point, especially the guys who are pushing ultimately bad ideas. :D I still want to hear from Rayn regarding my comments on our CPR exchange though. | ||
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On April 05 2013 15:34 Oatsmaster wrote: 1 for 1 trades are never good. On April 05 2013 14:51 Oatsmaster wrote: No. We dont shoot. On April 05 2013 15:24 Oatsmaster wrote: Policy regarding nukes, if you launch one, you are scum bro. Oats, I just find stuff like this really disruptive Oats. Like fair enough, the points you raise have validity; but the iron fist manner in which you are dropping those points; in my opinion acts to cease discussion. Your essentially coming across as: my way, or the highway. As I said before, some of your points this game have been very valid; I just think you need to work more on trying to develop others ideas to a common ground, rather than just.. shit on it. | ||
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On April 05 2013 15:46 geript wrote: @VE Why are you so quiet? I'm not used to you being so behind the scenes instead of being spammy. I would like to get a read on you. I sincerely hope that isnt a scum slip. Because, I expect more from your scum play than a loose phrase like that. I think I know what you meant; but the implication is.. you are aware of what VE is doing currently; which is knowledge townies certainly do not possess.... | ||
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On April 05 2013 15:53 Oatsmaster wrote: EBWOP: Also I agreed with keirathi on the lynch people who shoot nukes that hit town. So Im not shutting down discussion clearly... Those posts were just a quick grab.. Im not going to go through 5 posts to get that point across. Regardless of policy or whatever.. what makes you the judge with the hammer to enforce what is policy and what isnt? The point is to raise an idea, and discuss the validity and let it be agreed by town in general to become policy. That is the approach Keirathi is taking.. he is assertive without being "my way or the highway". After all, your vote does not represent the vote of town. | ||
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On April 05 2013 15:52 Keirathi wrote: Err what? How is that in any way a scumslip :o You're seeing things that aren't there, IMO lol. Perhaps, the only reason I dont think its a slip is because its a common saying; and perhaps used in the wrong context. It still does infer he is aware VE is active in a QT. | ||
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On April 05 2013 15:50 Oatsmaster wrote: Feeling like XXXIX now Mocsta, slamming me for 'stifling' discussion. Yeah, I disagree. I think I'm taking a completely different tact to bridging our inherent differences of opinion. Regardless, I am not slamming you. If you read carefully what I said.. I think you have valid opinions. I think you are just being too forceful about pushing them. Just like you think roles should be chosen as fun.. others vehemently want to win at all costs - and hence are willing to plan more. Right/Wrong; good policy/bad policy is a matter of opinion based on the eye of the beholder. That is all. ===== Or paraphrased: I feel like your a Jehovah Witness knocking on my door to try and convert me. Just give me the pitch, and leave. I can come to a decision myself. *Sorry to any Jehovah Witness playing in this game* | ||
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On April 05 2013 16:02 Keirathi wrote: You mean imply, not infer. You inferred based on his implication But I digress... I don't even think it implies that. I mean, I guess I can see how you can read it and think that, but in context the implication to me is that VE is not being out in the open with his thoughts, and instead of hiding in the background without particularly doing anything. Which I can agree with, but I don't think it really means anything yet. Regardless of English semantics. we are saying the same thing. I agree, that was his intention - as the saying is common, and perhaps used incorrectly. I think more of Geript than to scum slip and actually imply VE is busy in the QT - so easily. Regardless, I didnt want to make an inference so early on; so went straight to the source. The whole question is voided now, but it was never a big deal in the first place. <3 | ||
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On April 05 2013 16:02 Keirathi wrote: and instead of hiding in the background without particularly doing anything. This is what he meant. But "behind the scenes" typically refers to a context based on manipulation beyond common knowledge. Or whatever.. as I said, we saying the same thing.. Lets move on pl0x | ||
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On April 05 2013 16:11 Keirathi wrote: Which brings me to another question: Why even bring it up then? Like, what purpose did it serve, if you already didn't think it was a scumslip? The purpose I suggested one sentence above that line. I didnt want to make an inference so early on, so went straight to the source. If we start filling in the gaps now; we will never figure out the scum team.. that is what they want us to do, and how we become tunneled. | ||
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On April 05 2013 16:20 yamato77 wrote: I encourage all of town to do this, actually, because I'm gonna push for his lynch D1. I already can endorse that. | ||
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On April 05 2013 15:19 ObviousOne wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hey Mocsta! I'll direct this question to you and Yamato since he's all AMA right now. I have two games played together with Vivax (LX and Fruity) and I was interested in getting a preliminary read on him based on what we've seen so far. I did a (pretty weak) meta case on him in LX and I have a not-entirely-unfamiliar handle on his play, but I wanted to see if my read agreed with yours. Surprisingly he's been talking a lot of sense, but he's got Rayn as his #1 town read according to his filter: On April 05 2013 03:19 Vivax wrote: Supporting gonzaw and rayn for high picks so far. Objections? I suggest everyone makes a list of his top 5 townreads to send in highest numbers, and we find the ones most agree on. If there's someone mostly suggesting scum in his list, we will find out later. That's why scum will try to stop this plan. 1. Rayn 2. Gonzaw 3. Vivax (duh) 4.-5. : To find out. It seems the reason for this was because Rayn's opinion was that there was a low likelihood of there being scum in the most active/outspoken of townies for D1. This doesn't seem to jive with the concept that people are being active/outspoken about disagreeing that we should have had a plan to begin with. Each time I read the next quote I get more and more confused about what Vivax is actually saying here, to be honest. It seems as though Vivax is reading Rayn as town because Rayn is active/engaged, but Rayn is conversely suspicious of people who are active and engaged. Is this some kind of process of elimination or how did Vivax form his read? I'm not seeing it... On April 05 2013 02:50 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 05 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: It doesn't matter if they proposed good or bad ideas. Mafia is probably not going to push any ideas at all (because they all have a backdoor - because there are so many roles). Everyone pushing ideas regardless if they are good/bad are probably town at this point, especially the guys who are pushing ultimately bad ideas. :D I would probably support you as candidate cause I don't think that there can be mostly mafia among the most active and engaged candidates you proposed, so that makes you look quite townie. ##Pick #1: Rayn I guess I should extend this question to Vivax as well, then. Vivax, does your town read on Rayn waver at all based on what I've demonstrated before (that Rayn's scum reads are all people pushing against the current/trending of town's intentions during pre-picks). Moc, Yam, do you think Vivax' town read of Rayn is unfounded? Maybe you can explain it better than I understand it since I could be misinterpreting it. Matey, I did not forget about you. I am in agreement with your thoughts. His filter reads nice at the start; and then has some peculiarities where I can not follow the logic. e.g. the rationale for Rayn as a #1 pick. Or that, he agrees with Rayns top 5.. yet his own Top 5 only has Rayn as a commanality?? This is nitpicking, but even small comments like On April 05 2013 03:37 Vivax wrote: Why is it sad Rayn was going off nothing? etcSadly, RO's wasn't a scumclaim. He could just shut up or lie about agreeing with sending in the right numbers while he doesn't. So, I think it is best for Vivax to come in and explain himself. | ||
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On April 05 2013 16:20 yamato77 wrote: please do look at Meapak and give a thought on his alignment. The other guy i want to see *A LOT* more from is Bill Murray. | ||
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On April 05 2013 20:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: I assume never = everOkay. We continue with this. ^^ CPR is not a bad town role if used correctly (shoot scum or not use it at all). I know it's beneficial to scum also, never said i don't think so. I don't think CPR should never be used as doctor. Looks like we are thinking the same way about that role. I however do not understand why do you think i think CPR is not a scary scum role? If i say it can be a good town role it doesn't mean it can't be a good scum role too. If so, that clarifies everything. As for your last point, it was based on you repeatedly engaging me to say it was only town you were referring to. | ||
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On April 05 2013 20:07 Vivax wrote: Vivax, the original question was from OO, not me.@ mocsta Didn't agree with all of rayn's list, sharrant for example. But yamato, you and geript were good calls imo. And I don't think scum would play like rayn did, it's that simple. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=34#662 Further, I am inclined to agree with Oats. The response above does not resolve the outstanding issue. In fact, it makes me more curious. (1) OO was concerned about why Rayn was your #1 i.e. he noticed a valid contradiction in what each of you deemed as strong town A response to this is still outstanding. (2) On April 05 2013 16:35 Mocsta wrote: My concern was that your top 5 did not match the top5 of rayn.*Regarding Vivax* I am in agreement with your thoughts. His filter reads nice at the start; and then has some peculiarities where I can not follow the logic. e.g. the rationale for Rayn as a #1 pick. Or that, he agrees with Rayns top 5.. yet his own Top 5 only has Rayn as a commanality?? However, your response above indicates that at specific point in time - you agreed with 3 of the rayn reads. The stories are not matching up. (3) This is nitpicking, but even small comments like I'm still curious about this one. Interesting as well that you chose to respond to this post, but not this point.Why is it sad Rayn was going off nothing? etc | ||
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On April 05 2013 22:16 Oatsmaster wrote: Any reads other than Vivax, Mocsta? Frankly, its difficult as we are not officially in Day 1 - so the contributions from many are limited. To answer your question: I just have FoS, than actual scum reads. FoS: AustinMCC / Bill Murray / Vivax / VE I also like yams points about Palmar/MZ Im hoping once the game actually starts, more ppl start chipping in; so proper scum reads can develop. | ||
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Cos thats been your piece de resistance for contributions thus far. | ||
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I think it may be best to just agree to disagree. This convo has been going on now for a few pages. If i can divert the attention: Are we expecting all the low post contributors to kick into action once the roles are dispersed? How much leniency are we intending to give to ppl in multiple games? e.g. ppl like Palmar, who is significantly more active in his other game currently. | ||
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But, considering the pressure keirathi is under; and this case on Geript. I will admit I found it odd that Keirathi decided to step in to "hard defend" Geript regarding that "scum slip" comment. Why? Because it didnt put Geript under any pressure. So I could not understand why Keirathi wanted to interject and devote so many posts to discussing this matter. And then to Culminate by throwing suspicion on my action. Just food for thought. + Show Spoiler [scumslip exchange] + On April 05 2013 15:46 geript wrote: @VE Why are you so quiet? I'm not used to you being so behind the scenes instead of being spammy. I would like to get a read on you. On April 05 2013 15:50 Mocsta wrote: I sincerely hope that isnt a scum slip. Because, I expect more from your scum play than a loose phrase like that. I think I know what you meant; but the implication is.. you are aware of what VE is doing currently; which is knowledge townies certainly do not possess.... On April 05 2013 15:52 Keirathi wrote: Err what? How is that in any way a scumslip :o You're seeing things that aren't there, IMO lol. On April 05 2013 15:57 Mocsta wrote: Perhaps, the only reason I dont think its a slip is because its a common saying; and perhaps used in the wrong context. It still does infer he is aware VE is active in a QT. On April 05 2013 16:02 Keirathi wrote: You mean imply, not infer. You inferred based on his implication But I digress... I don't even think it implies that. I mean, I guess I can see how you can read it and think that, but in context the implication to me is that VE is not being out in the open with his thoughts, and instead of hiding in the background without particularly doing anything. Which I can agree with, but I don't think it really means anything yet. On April 05 2013 16:10 Mocsta wrote: Regardless of English semantics. we are saying the same thing. I agree, that was his intention - as the saying is common, and perhaps used incorrectly. I think more of Geript than to scum slip and actually imply VE is busy in the QT - so easily. Regardless, I didnt want to make an inference so early on; so went straight to the source. The whole question is voided now, but it was never a big deal in the first place. <3 On April 05 2013 16:11 Keirathi wrote: Which brings me to another question: Why even bring it up then? Like, what purpose did it serve, if you already didn't think it was a scumslip? On April 05 2013 16:14 Mocsta wrote: The purpose I suggested one sentence above that line. I didnt want to make an inference so early on, so went straight to the source. If we start filling in the gaps now; we will never figure out the scum team.. that is what they want us to do, and how we become tunneled. | ||
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On April 06 2013 08:08 geript wrote: Artanis I think the thing you're not understanding is that me and Moc have history. Thats not a valid point. I don't talk to Oats like that; and trust me, this is the first game together we haven't had a 10 page argument Day1 (yet). Hence, my commentary On April 05 2013 15:09 geript wrote: Thank you Moc, now I know that you are town. On April 05 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote: errmm OK o.0 Will have to talk more about this post-game. Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know? Im asking because, Im still trying to figure out if that affects my perception of you. Then comments like this one to VE On April 06 2013 06:14 geript wrote: VE. I do not like you right now. I fully believe in the idea that you pushed in the Nomination podcast that you can ALWAYS scumhunt. I have not seen you do anything of the sort. Explain yourself. For whatever reason, you are trying to position yourself as a person intimately familiar with certain players. Now, I can understand both town *And* scum reasons for that. It is up to you to convince me which way it leans. | ||
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On April 06 2013 08:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Mocsta, it's not an association read. That just adds to the case. The post that really set me off was the one where he called you town but not really but town five times in two sentences. Its association because there is no flip. The association was, if Geript is scum; it goes someways towards implicating Keirathi as associated scum (you know, the stuff that was taken precedence over the past 2/3 pages, originated by Caller) | ||
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On April 06 2013 08:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: But I'm not using it as an association case at all, my main crux of the case was the post I mentioned which has no bearing on Keirathi or Caller or any of that. Look at that post alone and tell me if you see any town motivation in making it. Geript is a difficult player to work with. + Show Spoiler [Geript fallacies] + His second game on this forum (Mafia LX).. lets just say.. post-game, people decided he needs to be wrapped in cotton-wool. Geript is not stupid; is aware of this perception; and realises to play it to his strengths. Geript also has more balls than ppl give him credit for. The other hard part is: his play is still developing. He just played scum; so has more insight in how to blend in as scum; and also what he values are being a good townie. I just wanted to point out here some context for a publicly considered "fragile" player - a reputation I dont think he deserves. I think there is merit in what you have pointed out, and am paying close attention to his responses. I also find it curious that when defending Rayn, he likes to point out validity in VE strategy as a basis. Soon he proceeds to call out VE for "working behind the scenes", and then later calls him out again for not scum hunting. P.S. its sat morning for me, so I will be back in 10-12hrs. | ||
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On April 06 2013 08:29 Bill Murray wrote: Artanis is scum with Keirathi GG Care to expound | ||
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On April 06 2013 08:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Stop over analysingSo he's playing to his strengths by saying things that have no town motivation? Please explain to me how that works. Are you saying that like Vivax he rolls scum in 100% of his games regardless of his role PM? If he's so aware of his perception, why does his posting history look so awful? You've basically said in this post that he's better than people give him credit for, yet his post history reeks of scum. If he's good as you say he is then this should ring even more alarm bells. The point regarding VE you make only compounds that, so that makes me wonder. Why so noncommittal? the key point i said is "i think there is merit in what you have pointed out" The other stuff was saying, I am not confident on giving a firm read on him due to my knowledge of his play. Henceforth, the watching closely. Dude, whether I agree with you or not; doesnt make me town or scum. | ||
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On April 06 2013 08:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I cant give him a firm conclusion yet. Its still Day 0; and I need to see him scum hunt more.It's not the agreeing or disagreeing part that's important, it's how you get to that conclusion and your conclusion didn't line up with the rest of your post. You said you (partially) agree with what I've pointed out, add more to the case, yet only say you'll "watch him closely". I was expecting a more firm conclusion given the rest of the post. As I said, there are points of merits; that I want to see responses to. Look, you either think I am scum, or you dont. If you dont think I am scum, than this convo is donig nothing but shit up the thread. If you do think I am scum, and being wishy washy.. by all means, continue. | ||
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On April 06 2013 08:57 Restraining Order wrote: I'm not particularily interested in lynching geript. I'm null on him, and he's not a good lynch in terms of policy either. Alternative then pls? Or are you just planning to cock-block this game? | ||
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On April 06 2013 08:59 Restraining Order wrote: The ones I noted in my last post before, plus Vivax and sno. Those are people I am interested in lynching. Yes Sn0 is interesting he is a guy that is #1 pick; and expressed desire to follow a plan. Yet, where is he in all these discussion? Its essentially empty promises. | ||
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On April 06 2013 09:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: . Since I believe Geript to be scum that makes you fairly town. Lol.. and if he is town.. what then? | ||
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On April 06 2013 10:22 geript wrote: @Mocsta. Can you tell me what you think of Oats currently? I have no experience with him and would like your insight. Hasnt changed much from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=27#522 K, im off for the next 10 hrs. C ya later. Hopefully im not a VT | ||
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I would like to continue discussion regarding your Geript case. Specifically, your qualms with Geripts wishy-washiness on whether I am town as follows: + Show Spoiler [Artanis on Geript] + On April 06 2013 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote: I'm not saying that you haven't done anything not town Mocsta-ish. There's just a very specific heuristic that town Mocsta seems to follow that you haven't hit on yet for me. I'm leaning town on you but until you get that one aspect I have a hard time putting you there fully. As for your posting, I really like it. Translates to: =============================== On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote: Hi, I think you're being townie, but you're not being you-townie, yet I still think you're townie but I'm not sure if you're townie. Oh and I think you're pretty townie. =============================== Why on earth would a townie post this? WHY? Mocsta wasn't even close to being in danger, and the town motivation for calling someone town, then suspicious, then town eludes me. What I find curious about the above, is when we start discussing Geript and you comment the below: + Show Spoiler [Artanis WishyWashy] + On April 06 2013 09:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I had you as weak town before our exchange, and the post you made questioned that read, so I questioned you. At first I thought it made you null again, but rereading it I realized that your wishy-washy post wouldn't make sense if Geript is scum, because he created an easy way for you to defend him which you denied. Since I believe Geript to be scum that makes you fairly town. On April 06 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote: Lol.. and if he is town.. what then? On April 06 2013 09:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Then you'd be null again. I find this interchange ironic, as you flip flop regarding my alignment much to the same manner Geript does. Let me guess, the heuristic doesnt apply to your play? Further, I shall ask the same question I asked Geript. On April 05 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote: Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know? Im asking because, Im still trying to figure out if that affects my perception of you. | ||
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On April 06 2013 13:52 ObviousOne wrote: ... not sure what to make of this but way to leave yourself open to accusations of a scum slip. Wow that's really bad looking. How.. he was talking about context of being scum in "the game" learn to read. | ||
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On April 06 2013 14:05 geript wrote: Most of my games have been not at TL as I've only played 4 games here; 11 were on two other sites. I have a townread on Mocsta and Yamato. I think it's a weak case, but one based in having no familiarity with me and more likely to come from town. I agree with yam = town. I didnt read the full "red team prize" where he smurfed. But I had him pegged as both town and scum within the first 12hours of the cycle. I would like to see some more activity from him, but, perhaps hes just waiting for roles to be released. ===== Im heading out again. See ya later. | ||
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On April 06 2013 15:05 yamato77 wrote: I'll post when I damn well feel like it. Right now there is only so much to achieve. lol town and scum should read yamato and scum. Y the need to be so aggressive? It was a passing comment. Do u have a beef with me or something. | ||
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On April 06 2013 13:54 Bill Murray wrote: town are more likely to flip flop than mafia u do realise artanis based his scum read of geript upon the flip flop reads u associate with being more likely from town...right¿ the irony being that artanis flipflopped his read of me. Using artanisxp heuristic for geript. Artanis is scum | ||
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On April 06 2013 14:03 Bill Murray wrote: this looks like your town meta from LX what do you have in terms of townreads? What do you think of Artanis's case on you? What.... Expound. Geript in lx as town was terribad. Everyone thought he was scum what are u actually saying here. Lets see some accountability pl0x | ||
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On April 06 2013 17:11 Bill Murray wrote: i didnt read the entire thread to see him getting chastised; i compared the similarities of his play here and his play there So you are admiting to negligence - in relation to the Geript meta read. Hence, why bother to comment. Let me remind you. On April 06 2013 14:03 Bill Murray wrote: this looks like your town meta from LX | ||
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On April 06 2013 16:21 geript wrote: I think there are many low post count / low contribution count players in the game.Mocsta, what do you think of my points on VE? VE -as you presented- is one of them. I am keen to read his response. I think any further commentary is simply, conjecture. P.S. I am still waiting for Vivax to reply to my second follow up. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=37#722 | ||
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On April 06 2013 17:38 geript wrote: Why did you avoid my question? I expect better of you Mocsta. I didnt avoid it in a hidden way. Why do I need to say I like it or not; and potentially influence the raw opinion of VE? I think the case has enough merit, that it requires an unhindered response. Ppl have a habit of commenting on cases (that are not directed to them); and affect the outcome of the case. That is bad play; so you were right to expect better from me... That better was to not comment. | ||
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On April 06 2013 17:43 Palmar wrote: wtf when does this game start? Apparently, BC fucked something up. So its been extended 24 hrs. Its not clear whether the role PMs sent, are still eligible/applicable. | ||
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On April 06 2013 18:28 Palmar wrote: mocsta gimme 2 names or something for me to read. Bill Murray Vivax | ||
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On April 06 2013 21:13 Bill Murray wrote: i read his posts, not the entire game... are you dumb? LOL... so if you read his posts, you would realise he was being continually harassed as a scum target. you would realise his fragile mindset, that led him to self explode in the thread. You dont need to read the game; to understand that he did not come across as town. Your read is full of shit; and when I call you out for it; you go ad hominem and call me dumb. I asked palmar to look into you; because I thought you were scum. He agrees. Come Day1; my vote goes straight on you. | ||
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On April 06 2013 23:37 Oatsmaster wrote: If you want to call him town, you are going to have to lay down some justification.Bm totes town. "BM totes town" is not good enough. All i see if a guy who thread contributions can be summarised in 3 short points (1) Useless spam - null by itself (2) Useless list post - null by itself (3) Useless Geript meta read - null by itself All 3 points summate to a value greater than the individual parts. i.e. It equates to a mindset indicative of both laziness; and wanting to blend in without actually contributing. When questioned about his useless read on Geript; he then retaliates by throwing ad-hominem remarks.. showing another aspect of his scum mindset - lack of accountability. So Oats, indulge me on why you think none of the above makes BM scum. | ||
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On April 07 2013 00:01 Oatsmaster wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 23:55 Mocsta wrote: If you want to call him town, you are going to have to lay down some justification. "BM totes town" is not good enough. All i see if a guy who thread contributions can be summarised in 3 short points (1) Useless spam - null by itself (2) Useless list post - null by itself (3) Useless Geript meta read - null by itself All 3 points summate to a value greater than the individual parts. i.e. It equates to a mindset indicative of both laziness; and wanting to blend in without actually contributing. When questioned about his useless read on Geript; he then retaliates by throwing ad-hominem remarks.. showing another aspect of his scum mindset - lack of accountability. So Oats, indulge me on why you think none of the above makes BM scum. Because none of the above makes him scum? You have to remember that BM hasnt played in FOREVER. Ok read through the last 3 pages. Tell me its scum writing that please The geript read looks thought through and yeah he says fuck you Im right.(town) TOWN DUDE. Also Palmar didnt comment of Vivax. SCUM DUDE (not so serious eh? ) Disagree in full - but with you that is always to be expected. (1) Im curious specifically about: On April 07 2013 00:01 Oatsmaster wrote: The geript read looks thought through Considering my main issue with BM is around this not being the case; and him admitting he was negligent with the admission. Im going to need you to explain this one in more detail. (2) If you want another one of BMs: chime in to contribute without contributing posts. How about this regarding ArtanisXP + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 13:54 Bill Murray wrote: town are more likely to flip flop than mafia Funny, because Artanis take on the situation is much different: On April 06 2013 20:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote: No, I don't flip-flop on your alignment as all. I'm very specific in what my conclusion is and my thought process towards it is explained. So you think it is townie; to come in, and comment on issues such as Geript/Artanis to appear as contributing but not actually performing the due diligence? (3) Lastly, who does the below refer to: On April 07 2013 00:01 Oatsmaster wrote: Palmar, Vivax, or both?SCUM DUDE Why did you feel the need to hard-defend BillMurray, and then throw Palmar's name into the mix? | ||
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What he is doing is absolute bullshit. I.e. he decided to give his 2cents, and then proceeds to afk when questioned further. ≠=====≠======= Problem is. He's active as fuck in ego Mafia. As in right now as I make this post. ============= Playing 2 Gamez simultaneously is not an excuse to be disruptive and unaccountable. I'm saying this because at least 3 ppl are in 2games currently. Yes.inactivty is not a scum tell. But i will not let.. coming in to contribute without reading the thread properly is just plain bullshit and hiding behind..well shit in other game got heated.. Is not an excuse now or later. | ||
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On April 07 2013 01:43 Bill Murray wrote: Mocsta I don't give a shit if you vote me or not Not like I've played a game in the last 7 months I'm going to bed at 1pm At least I'm not a townie fuck it I'm not sure wtf that means. At least I'm not a townie?? BTW, nice add in of a newbie claim Anyways. I'm going to bed too. Ciao | ||
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On April 07 2013 14:07 Keirathi wrote: I'll be completely honest: I have absolutely no idea how to read VE. In both games I've played with him [on my own*], I've thought he was scum and been completely wrong. (*Exception being Hydra, but that was just marv. I actually didn't have an opinion on VE before marv started telling me he was scum). I will say that I have noticed something that scum VE does that town VE doesn't. He hasn't done it yet this game. And obviously I can't say what it is, because then he would just know to avoid doing it. I'll expound on it later if something changes. Mr. Meta king Keirathi. Can you give me your opinion on S&B. I only have played games where he was town. | ||
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My expectations for a town SnB are more of a personal heuristic, from "The Game" ObsQT where SnB berated me for poor play, incessantly. Im not getting any of that vibe from him this game at all. In fact, his emphasis in that ObsQT exchange was that town shouldnt be posting useless/nothing posts; yet, here ironically he admits he hasnt posted "anything of substance since the game started". ##Vote: StrongandBig | ||
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On April 07 2013 14:35 Bill Murray wrote: ^town If only I was 1 minute quicker. | ||
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I like a lot of the stuff you raise; its a solid extension of the 180' plan flips I raised prior. The problem is: for whatever reason, people assumed he was high that day when he started acting crazy: so I have kinda put those point at that point in time as moot - even though it wasnt confirmed. Where I see validity with the above in mind: is that, post-hoc he has added nothing in value, nor has he tried to endorse the plans that he agreed to , when "apparently" sober. I am happy with lynching Rayn or SnB this cycle. I would prefer SnB on the basis that I assume him to be a better player in general. | ||
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On April 07 2013 14:44 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: Also, I guess I should say that town S&B didn't really berate people for poor play in RED that I remember. And berating people for poor play in an Obs QT when you weren't even part of the game is something that lots of people do. I don't think its specific to S&B or to S&B's town play at all. Which is why I said personal. It wasnt the act of berating.. it was the tone used. I have seen him use the same tone in town games; im not getting it this game.. but thats a highly personal feel, and not something i can build a case on obviously. | ||
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Sinani.. opinion on Raypelikoneet. gogogo | ||
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I can only recall one person using the phrase "lettuce" for "let us" twas a recent newbie IIRC. Can you confirm if correct? | ||
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On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote: Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment. As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. Get more ript Thats the point.. He sold himself as wanting to support a town plan; it wasnt sold as a plan to put him solely into the top 5. How much value are you giving him for being supposedly "high". | ||
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On April 07 2013 15:15 Oatsmaster wrote: Girls. VE totes town Sn0 comes in here. Throws dirt on me, defends Vivax. LEAVES. WHY? CAUSE HE IS SCUM BRO. Vivax is scum for supporting bad plan. And other things. Seriously man.. you have an 8 page filter of blunt statements. You need to start fleshing things out if you want ppl to sheep you. Otherwise, if you want your standard play where you sheep others; comment on Rayn/SnB/Sinani | ||
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So if that is the case, im not following your prior comment. Yes, town and scum both want the top pick. But do you expect town to go on a big spiel about plans; and then cease to contribute once the goal is achieved? | ||
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On April 07 2013 15:33 Shelvocke wrote: I don't really think rayn is mafia. His play does look different from those town quotes you had, but it doesn't look like that mafia game either. The only part of that game where he just suddenly jumps is the part where he votes for Krefla and even then he has a reason because Krefla just came in right before the deadline. The fact that he seems a lot more impulsive in this game than he has been before is something that points to him being town. I feel he would be a lot more careful and safe as mafia. The plan switch looks kind of strange, but his overall attitude makes him more likely town. More impulsive as instigator or in reaction to others? | ||
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On April 07 2013 15:39 Shelvocke wrote: What do you mean? He seems to jump around based on what's going on in the thread. Thank you. so impulsive is then defined as: in response to others; rather than in creating new ideas. I dont see what is townie about that. Scum can be equally impulsive in regards to thread sentiment. However, I dont particularly care about the action itself: do you think his motives for "jumping around" is founded upon processing new information to update the conclusion? | ||
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On April 07 2013 15:52 Shelvocke wrote: I get what you're saying, but I've never seen a new mafia player be so crazy. I don't really understand the reasons for some of the stuff he does but it seems to me that he sees one post and then just makes up his mind based on that. Usually new mafia are much more safe and concerned about their appearance. It's possible he's some kind of mafia gosu but frankly that's not the impression I get from him. I understand what you are saying. But keep in mind, he is a spammy player at heart. This implies he is aggressive/carefree/impulsive/confident in general, and thus; the typical mafia "too scared to post" heuristic, does not apply. I was not scared to post in my first game as scum; in fact, I tried to take control of town. Further, his scum game (whilst in a newbie) was still relatively spammy. So it really does come back down to motives for flipflopping. | ||
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On April 07 2013 15:55 geript wrote: I think most of the plans weren't really terribly discussed but I need to go back and reread that whole section again. Will give a more firm answer in a bit. You dont need to read the section to answer the question. I gave a hypothetical. | ||
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On April 07 2013 17:14 gonzaw wrote: I'll wait until people start sheeping me I guess. I just finished catching up on the thread. Agree with the points. At first I didnt mind him propelling himself into the thread with his RNG idea.. but i think that is the key to why he is scum. Reminds me of a scum game, where I had a lurker in my team; and i told him specifically to just post your thoughts into the middle of a convo, to stand out.. cos "scum dont do that". You are right Gonzaw, artanis doesnt have conviction in any idea that he pushes; everything is half-assed. ##Unvote ##Vote: Artanis[Xp] | ||
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On April 07 2013 17:19 geript wrote: I don't wholly buy into the hiding in the setup stuff. It could likely be said of a few people. I even got my idea of draft pods partially from his RNG idea. I think your most damning point in the first part is that he neither tries to push why his ideas are good or better especially when his plan only works for 1-3 roles. It just seems far, far more questionable that he's just trying to throw out an idea without any reasoning behind it and doesn't care to assert himself. But I don't know anything about Artanis so that might be typical for him; it does seem odd that he was so carefree about setup and so hard to try and push me. I could see that as being related to that due to Draft phase being Day -1, Post draft being Day 0 and the extended foreplay really being done. As for complaining, in my experience complaining players are perhaps slightly more likely to be scum, but I wouldn't put it past 55%-45%. I get that those posts say mostly nothing, but I could see something like this come from busy/disinterested town. My distinct impression of the Artanis case when he posted it was a few things: First, Is this some sort of Chainsaw? Second, this seems like an odd set of things to be pointing out. Third, initially it feels like a case that came from town not scum (but this is completely a gut read). It does somewhat remind me of things that we'd look for last game as scum, but I have a hard time taking that seriously. I doubt it was ever meant as an actual case; it's either to discredit pressure on Keirathi at the time or discredit me attacking VE or just to appear active. The odder thing about the case IMO is that I actually thought these points + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 09:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Asking people whether you can sheep them isn't exactly the height of taking responsibility. Antagonizing people that refuse to play along with your plan because they want to approach the game in a different way, single line comments about players you find suspicious then asking other people what they think about them rather than fleshing out your own opinion, all the while focussing on your own plan. I'd rather you reply to the mini case I made though as it contains the stronger points. The sixth point I think is actually the most damning. That is essentially how I slid through the last game. Granted this point is moot if you're scum. Overall the case isn't bad, I prefer the Rayn case. I want to get some sleep before I reread everything tomorrow. Firstly, your play has really stepped up this game. I feel strongly enough about this to publicly say it. Well done. I will eat my hat if you are scum. (luckily i dont wear hats ) Secondly, The Artanis case felt like.. he took my "scum slip" comment; and decided you were lynch bait and tried to fabricate a case around it. Its highly probable thats why he felt the need to add it as the final piece to his case; for reenforcement. Thirdly, I really like how in your exchange between Rayn/MZ. Rayn has reads on everyone, except conveniently Artanis - obviously association read here. Look i like a lynch on SnB/Rayn/Artanis for this cycle. I think Artanis should be lynched for a combination of both, solid case, and solid experience. | ||
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On April 07 2013 17:30 gonzaw wrote: Everybody "conveniently" left out Artanis from their talk, even Meapak who called him out previously, except some specific players when he made the case (BM, you, yamato and geript). So that's not really an "association" or anything, more than it is an association with VE, or RO, or anybody else. I assume you = me If so, your the second "old-school" player taht has disagreed with me regarding association definition? WTF? Association is calling someone scum due to association relationship, without seeing a flip. So yes, leaving all the other shit about Rayn aside: calling him scum due to not giving a read on Artanis is association, as Artanis has not yet flipped. | ||
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On April 07 2013 17:37 gonzaw wrote: You are getting annoying Oats. There is a 10.000 essay telling you why Artanis is the scummiest shit in this game instead of Vivax And you have I dunno how many people telling you Vivax is just not that scummy. At all, Vivax is the OPPOSITE of scummy, but that's so characteristic of his that it is scummy in itself Right now you are just sounding childish dude, wtf? I agree Oats is getting annoying. But not with Vivax is super town; OR ppl have told oats otherwise. i dont recall anyone sticking up for Vivax... o.0 | ||
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On April 07 2013 17:42 gonzaw wrote: Well I still have outstanding questions for him, that I have repeatedly asked for answers to.No, Vivax is acting "normal", as in like what any other normal player would act normally in a normal game. He makes some sense at times as well Remembering back on LIX.....this is surprising and very very weird. Maybe he just got better? I dunno He's not obvs town like others, but he's certainly not the "scummiest shit" in the game, and I'd leave him be until he does something else besides his push of RO (which he apparently backed out of, thus he needs to do something, and we need to watch closely what he does) Im not liking his play, but feel he is more of a 50/50 than Artanis | ||
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On April 07 2013 18:27 Palmar wrote: list of probable townies: gonzaw geript mocsta vivax that leaves me with 20 possible lynch targets. I really need to figure out more people who I don't think are scum. Why? Im still waiting for you to step up and show me your awesome townieness - if you dare. | ||
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On April 07 2013 19:49 Oatsmaster wrote: Palmar isnt interested in doing ANYTHING right now. Thats ok, hes got a sexy beard. I'm more curious why he is only looking for town reads? Palmar I have reservations about the town read on Vivax. Can you give me a couple dot points on what stands out to you as *only* town motive. (kinda like what you did for BillMurray) pl0x | ||
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So damn scummy My vote is staying on you, br0dooski | ||
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On April 07 2013 21:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Mind expanding on that? Not really. Other than: Its classic scum retort. Blow out of proportion the small details and glance over the important stuff. | ||
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On April 07 2013 22:09 Oatsmaster wrote: Artanis do you have reads? defending yourself is fine and all but I prefer reads. He can only give town reads, or comment that he meekly pushed RNG. | ||
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On April 07 2013 22:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I still hate his earlier posts but everything since that has been good so I have no intention of lynching him at the moment. His case on RO is meh. I like the point regarding town reads that he'd suddenly like to get lynched, but that's about it for that case for me, and RO responds alright to it. He's also paranoid of everyone and everything which is generally a town trait. So u were asked if geript is scum U responded u have no intention to lynch him at the moment. How about answer the question. Is geript scum... Yes or no. | ||
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On April 07 2013 22:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm going to spit through this game more thoroughly tonight and give you something more in depth then. What important stuff didn't I address then? I take that response as an admission to blowing the small stuff out of proportion BTW. I'm not here to convince u that u r scum. And ur reply reenforced what I already was sure of. U r scum So this discourse is going no where. P.s. everyone prefers townies that scumhunt instead of contribute by defending. Best of luck with that. gnite. | ||
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If u can reply to a 10,000word case on u. Um sure u can give a 1 word alignment to someone YOU wrote a case about. | ||
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U r right. Ur response was fine, it indeed made a effort to address each point. Its why I have no requirement to question u further. Its simple. The retort to gonzaw case was written from a scummy viewpoint. Its obvious u put in effort. Unfortunately u couldn't remove yourself from the Mafia mindset. Ur retort makes it clear u are doing things for town cred and are fully aware of how ur actions are perceived. But in general the whole tone taken for the defence is of a guy with inherent guilt. I'm going to bed. Will re read the exchange in the morning. But I'm pretty sure I'm going to get the same vibe. That u so scummy. Nite | ||
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On April 07 2013 22:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: It's not black and white Mocsta. I think what you said is scummy, yes, but I'd need to read up again before I can say something more founded. I don't think Geript is scum at this point. Thnx for the qualifier. I just asked for yes or no. Do u always like to leave an option open? | ||
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(1) I really like Rayns response. The conveyed town has a very town confidence in it. Its not "over played". (2) I still want more from SnB. But his response is enough for me not to consider him further this cycle. (3) Oats is starting to really cross the line for me from town -> null; possibly approaching slightly leaning scum. He has been nothing but disruptive; continuously cock-blocking scum hunting, to then throw a blanket "Vivax is scum" statement. The below is not a case; I just want to hear opinions on whether I am taking this interaction personally, or whether it indeed conflicts. + Show Spoiler [Oats issues] + Exhibit A On April 07 2013 16:40 Oatsmaster wrote: Gonzaw you understand what I mean by GUT READ? (it means I felt that he was town reading the thread.) I agree that artanis looks scummy. I still want to lynch Vivax though, Im way more familar with his play and this does not feel like his town play. Also he is scummy!?!?! (so wishywashy right? ) Oats stance is clear: Thinks Artanis looks scummy; and then still wants to push the unfounded Vivax lynch. Exhibit B On April 07 2013 20:54 Oatsmaster wrote: Lol just read Artanis' reply. MTG was a 9 player mini bro. Scum dont bus each other They dont. On April 07 2013 22:09 Oatsmaster wrote: Artanis do you have reads? defending yourself is fine and all but I prefer reads. To me its ambiguous how deep Oats finds Artanis scummy. The tone seems jovial; however, the words express suspicion. I find this interaction just weird overall. If i haphazard a guess; I would stick with the Exhibit A read: i.e. he finds him scummy. Exhibit C On April 07 2013 23:21 Oatsmaster wrote: *About Artanis[Xp]* Rid yourself of the fucking confirmation bias you have. You do the whole part about 'looking' townie as town too. To get influence to push your reads? Hmm? He is saying, I am confirmation biased for pushing Artanis as scum ?!?! Lets go back to Exhibit A please: "I agree that artanis looks scummy." This is quite a bizarre statement. Even in conjunction with Exhibit B, there is not enough doubt from Oats regarding Artanis alignment to suddenly think he is a town read. Even if he is making this post to attack my character; and not actually comment on this thoughts on Artanis.. what is the point regardless? Im pushing someone, he admitted he thinks looks scummy. I can't fathom what he is trying to achieve other than a "cock-block" by making that post. Exhibit D On April 08 2013 01:01 Oatsmaster wrote: why do you care about the numbers Vivax? Work for the scum that cant find work? On April 08 2013 03:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Vivax why do you need to explain a simple thing like 'Why are you voting for your scumreads scumread?' Its not that hard, Is it? Or are you avoiding talking about anything else? This is Oats addressing his #1 scumspect that has reentered the thread. To me: this doesnt read as a person critically challenging his scum target. Now those that know Oats, knows 90% of his questions are useless and have no actual purpose; so I wont hold this interaction against him. The problem is the follow exhibit. Exhibit E On April 08 2013 04:55 Oatsmaster wrote: Im up for a lynch. ANY LYNCH prefer vivax. Artanis works ##Vote: Artanis He says he prefers Vivax (which is fine follow through).. yet bandwagons on Artanis? LIke WTF? It hasnt even been clear Oats is a staunch supporter of the artanis wagon; yet, now jumps on. This is after Exhibit C, where he tries to ridicule me for being the first supporter (after Gonzaw) on the Artanis wagon? Now that I got Oats out of my system. I am going to re-read the filters of Artanis // Shevlocke // AustinMCC Gonzaw and the Day Vig Whether the ability is true or not; I would not recommend shooting today - unless you think you are a valid NK target (and can not fire at night). If you had to shoot someone today; I wouldnt bother for a hard scum read. Why? Because we are capable of lynching "on the radar" targets; and controversial Day 1 firm reads, can often be mislynches. (Artanis isnt controversial.. the goods are solid) Hence, I recommend to take out a low contribution lurker that we dont expect to interact much with the thread. Suitable candidates thus far: Sinani - Rank 4 Sharrant - Rank 12 perhaps Yamato - Rank 23 Ppl like Deconduo/Palmar/BillMurray/Caller etc I expect to become more cooperative as the game progresses. Yamato is a funny category for me: hes done nothing since the draft picks were announced; and I dont know if the guy is just busy in real life // pissed off about the lack of draft submission // or thinks he can lurk his way whilst others take the stage for shitting the thread. Sharrant is a guy that everyone mislynched in "Normal Mini Mafia 4" for providing opposition to thread senitment. So I would read his filter carefully before proceeding. Sinani has offered nothing to date, and with his BM vig request throw in, I think is the best opportunity for a day vig - if you had to go that way. | ||
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Do you think I was chasing you for funsies the other day? I dont think you scum anymore.. i just think your bad town But conviction was there, and I think Shevlocke comment was fair (regarding me at least) | ||
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On April 08 2013 09:06 Palmar wrote: I still think VE is scum. Disengaged VE has almost always been scum. I have only seen VE disengaged as scum when he has had what he deems a good case brought forth against him. e.g. Hydra Mini 1. I liked Geript case a lot; hit many of the right notes.. but it came so early into Day1, I thought a scum VE would have been able to wriggle out without giving up. At least in Hydra, he gave up Day2? + since when are we advocating activity for validity of a lynch? Palmar, you know this best... Do i need to remind you of nomination mafia. On February 10 2013 11:58 Mocsta wrote: palmar So you are motivated enough to actively lurk and respond when mentioned. But not motivated enough to provide your own highly regarded thoughts and reads? If as a townie u keep saying "tis OK. Lynch me" why bother to respond in the first place? Fact: I can't confirm/deny if your motivations are low. What I do know is that this setup allows for a pro town townie to NEVER be lynched or killed. I still don't get why highly regarded players (such as yourself and others) have not stepped up. This nomination mechanic is better than bodyguards. Hence i find it is peculiar it is not being taken advantage of... On February 10 2013 21:36 Palmar wrote: My previous games have nothing to do with how I play this game and active lurking is not a scumtell unless you apply it correctly, those are just some future pointers for you in mafia. Now; I dont read the above as a attempt to correctly apply active lurking as a scumtell for VE. In particular because what I called you out for in Nomination; I feel some applies to VE potentially. P.S. you were town that game. Perhaps, I am wrong; but this is where you can come in to enlighten me pl0x | ||
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On April 08 2013 09:31 gonzaw wrote: Also I dunno why but after Obvious reading ALL of Artanis games and concluding the same thing as I do....it makes me feel better about my Artanis read >_> Because the meta read was pretty fucking good. Actually almost too slick.. im shocked that games from 2010/2012 can be presented as eligible material for a meta read. Regardless; reinforced post 3000 very well. | ||
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On April 08 2013 09:42 yamato77 wrote: Let's lynch Artanis. The fact that the lynch has met resistance and people are arguing about other cases that are "scummier" is a good thing. I love information. OO's analysis of his meta is decent, and coupled with gonzaw's case, I could see Artanus as scum. As for who to vig, it should obviously be sinani. If you read his filter, he posts opportunistically, and generally has little to say. One post in particular I called out as being especially horrible, the one where he gives his "thoughts" on the lynch candidates and is null on three out of four. I was scum with him in Red Team's Prize, and he's acting similar to that game, here his posting in the thread is quiet and not forceful. His "push" of BM as a vig shot is also terrible, because I actually have him down as likely town. As for myself, since people seem to think I need to contribute more, meh. I gave the game the start I wanted and I have some decent town reads out of that, so as far as continuing a high level of activity, I don't feel that it's necessary. I'm doing my own scum hunting, and I make myself known throughout the day on where I'm at. If I drop off the face of the planet, feel free to shoot/lynch me, but I'm not going to be hyperactive in these games anymore. OK. I can accept this Yamato. I also like we both came to the same conclusion with Sinani. I get you dont want to be a thread leader/presence. No worries. But if you are scum hunting on your own; I would still would like to see you interact more with your scum reads. e.g. I dont believe you have tried to interact with Palmar, since your case. | ||
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On April 08 2013 09:46 austinmcc wrote: I went through your case and told you a couple reasons I was townie on him. Scum can look active proposing plans, and not pushing anything hard, but I think that the particular plan that artanis mentioned and pushed was very anti-scum, and he could have posted a different plan/joined someone else's plan if he were scum and wanted to look active. Disagree. The plan itself was pro-town; but not how he went about campaigning it. There is a distinct lack of conviction. For some reason you are choosing to judge him from his actions; not his motivations. A town AustinMCC is better than this. I also find the timing on his geript stuff to be townie. Push him, leave, come back, actually re-read his stuff and change your read at the very very start of the game. No need to do that. No real scum purpose in doing that. Makes the geript bit look like a legitimate read that he then reconsidered later. Honestly that's a lot of the reason I don't like him for scum. Disagree; the case reads as if he saw my scum slip comment to Geript as an opportunity to make a case on a widely acknowledged lynch-bait candidate. I'll take a look at British but probably tomorrow while at work. Poking around elsewhere tonight. No need. OO makes a very good synopsis. You want a TL;DR, check out OO last post. Still disagree with you on Shelvocke. I think he HAS posted a lot of fluff. I think a lot of his reads are unsubstantiated and don't feel real (No snb posts, not following up on VE, see the recent bit with rayn/mocsta/keirathi where he just makes this weird comment and that's it with no real reference to WHY he thinks what he says he thinks or what posts make him think what he says he thinks). And how is any of this different to Artanis list post?Last night, I said to Artanis... town scum hunt under pressure; not contribute by making posts. Artanis replied he would provide scum hunting evidence later. That list of ppl being voting; is certainly not scum hunting to its finest, or most passionate. | ||
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On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote: Mate, thats why I thought Artanis[Xp] was town originally in the game. But reads are subject to change; and the actions post-hoc are not townie.+ Show Spoiler + Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler + He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote: So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote: @rayn: good, you're back First: ##Unvote Now, let's talk a bit: What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Then: geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. ##Unvote: Keirathi Regarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good. 1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT. 2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting. 3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour 4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway. I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote: No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway. Will sleep on it. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who. I suggest I give you context from read Newbie Mafia 37 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395714 Specifically Sevryn He was scum on my team, and a lurker. Let me post you what I told him in the scum QT. http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/s4anwjnME7M9 Post 58 #1... you're currently a lurker.. you're not in a position to call out other ppl heheh (seriously) you need to establish innocence. I ask him to present original thought to the thread. Town loves original thought....the BEST way to do that in my opinion, is to make a valid argument on something new; ppl respect original thought. Glurio is pretty weak overall, and has made some contributions, I think he is your ideal target. look, lemme read his post, and I pass on my criticisms on that post Post 60 lol. your lucky anyway.. your post is getting buried.. this is the key DO NOT LET IT GET BURIED.. ppl will see that as scum.. so say like this "my points on glurio are getting buried, i am bringing them back to attention with this extra analysis" .... His point got buried; so I asked him to bring it back to the fore again. Again, town dont expect scum to "care" about their points. Its a cheap action to take that is easy to perform. Even for a LURKER! Post 73 - In regards to Sevryn making posts to bring his point across (a la Artanis[Xp] This is so funny watching them banter great news sevryn. Warbaby didnt list u. So planned worked The thread publicly declare Sevryn as a town read post-hoc... my very simple to implement plan worked. Why? Because people judged him on the action; not the motivation or the content in the post. Much like the situation here. Yes Artanis plan was pro-town.. but the plan still needed to be endorsed by more than one voice. Do you think he really make a push to convince people? Ask yourself this. Everyone is commenting how pro-town the plan was. If so, why did no one else endore the plan? He basically stood up on a box; but instead of bring on the megaphone (like Yamato/myself/Rayn did.. he decides to whisper. He actions do not match the motivation. Artanis is scum. | ||
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On April 08 2013 09:51 yamato77 wrote: People shat all over the Palmar read. I've learned to realize when I'm being overly suspicious. Im suspicious of Palmar; and endorsed your read from the get-go. Hes not my top scumspect; but hes on my radar. | ||
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On April 08 2013 10:10 austinmcc wrote: I really hope you took a vote-altering role; cos politician suits you to a tee.I fully disagree on this point. For one, town austinmcc is entirely equivalent to this. Rawr. I don't even think we've played many games together when I'm town and have played decently. But aside from that, we don't disagree on artanis's early game plan. He did not push/seem full on conviction on a pro-town plan. We agree there. I put emphasis on the fact that he was the sole person mentioning a heavy RNG plan. I put emphasis on the fact that the plan feels VERY anti-mafia, because no matter what town plans mafia can at least plan around it, except with RNG you're limiting your ability to plan around anything. It's a very pro-town/anti-mafia plan imo. In a vacuum, I do not find it likely that a mafia player looking to be active would choose to lightly push THAT particular plan, or wouldn't hop off it and just parrot some other plan. Back to business pl0x: Firstly, it is good we see eye to eye with the lack of conviction. Secondly, I believe the next paragraph is mostly addressed by: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=75#1484 In fairness, you may have not read that yet. The applicable part is towards the bottom in very big text. Let me regurgitate it for you: On April 08 2013 10:06 Mocsta wrote: Ask yourself this. Everyone is commenting how pro-town the plan was. If so, why did no one else endore the plan? He basically stood up on a box; but instead of bring on the megaphone (like Yamato/myself/Rayn did.. he decides to whisper. He actions do not match the motivation. Artanis is scum. So we both agree, the conviction is lacking. The comment above confirms the thread subconsciously recognised the conviction was lacking. The point is, the motivation for a pro-town plan only becomes pro-town if there is conviction to push it. Otherwise its just another attempt to contribute something meaningful without contributing. Or as someone else pointed out; an attempt to solicit information on town towards which direction they would take. ==== As for your next comment: In a vacuum, I do not find it likely that a mafia player looking to be active would choose to lightly push THAT particular plan, or wouldn't hop off it and just parrot some other plan. Your entire point is hinged upon a mafia player looking to be active. I dont recall anyone arguing Artanis was trying to have an active thread presence? So the point is moot. I repeat: A town AustinMCC is better than this. | ||
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Unrelated question. Do you think I spamming up the thread? I am asking because my last couple posts have all been big text walls; and not sure if Im getting my message across succinctly at the moment. | ||
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To me: active => trying to participate in live thread discussions, and be a presence. Contribute without contributing is blending in; and trying to stay off the radar with minimal activity. The meaning (for me personally) is certainly not the same. Well I now know, next game if I roll scum; I can come up with a super pro-town idea pre-game.. release it to the thread, and proceed to fuck off. And people like you will never vote me.. Awesome, I just unlocked the game. As I said before, and you did not comment on. If this plan was so good, as you and some others state. You would have supported it publicly at that point in time. You are coming in here now, to state your support, which just doesnt cut it. Artanis didnt gain traction for his "pro-town plan".. and certainly never made a consolidated effort to gain traction. All he did was attempt to have it heard... There is a huge distinction between the two. One is almost certainly townie. The other is scummy / lazy townie. No where have you argument Artanis is lazy; so lets scrap that.. one is almost certainly townie.. the other: scummy. You do the math. | ||
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On April 08 2013 10:35 Sharrant wrote: Mr. Rant, this post is a pretty big post for a summary.+ Show Spoiler + @Gonzaw I think the best two targets tonight are Sinani and Sn0man. At this point neither of them are seeming like they will be here to allow us to actually read them. I'd prefer a shot on Sinani over Sn0man for two reasons. A) I'm a little concerned about Sn0man being shot if he's a townie with a strong power role, or a townie with a strong denial role, hell there's even a bit of concern if he's a mafia with a strong role. I find it much more likely for Mafia to have the copycat power than the town would, meaning they could potentially receive a strong role. B) Sinani looks pretty scummy for the small amount that he has posted. On April 08 2013 06:43 sinani206 wrote: I haven't played with him before, so I don't know his meta, but he's pretty scummy imo. On April 08 2013 06:46 sinani206 wrote: gonzaw are you going to claim exactly what your role is? These quotes especially feels out of place. He picks a really safe target for the shot, but then doesn't bother to push a case at all, AND takes a step back as he pushes his name forward. He's already trying to back away from the shot even as he's proposing it. He clearly doesn't want to push the shot, he clearly does not want to be assosciated with it, but he does want it to happen. He also immediately fishes for your role even though you've revealed that you have at least 1 KP usable during the day. The only reason I see for asking this is because he's on the scum team, and either he or one of his team mates is either BC or the assassin, and is hoping to take a shot on you either before or after you take your shot depending on who you would kill. That's why I'd feel safe in a shot on Sinani. What is the intention? Are you trying to sell this as original content? | ||
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On April 08 2013 10:46 ObviousOne wrote: Go fuck yourself.Mocsta. I love you dearly. Please make paragraphs. Or I'll Do This Just To Explain Why It's Annoying And Difficult To Read. You personally asked me to go back to my roots. I did. So Go fuck yourself. | ||
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On April 08 2013 10:47 austinmcc wrote: + Show Spoiler + Mocsta, I didn't go "YAYA ARTANIS PLAN BESTPLAN." But I did interact with him, noting that RNG had played a role in the top picks of the last PYP. I like the idea of including some RNG into any picking plan, because it was a pro-town element. And YEAH. You can come up with some super pro-town idea in game, release it, and proceed to fuck off. There's a 100% chance that I'll find someone who puts forth a super pro-town idea to be likely town. I may be wrong here. I might be wrong if you ever do that. But I forgot that coming up with super pro-town plans was NOT a townie thing to do. So yes, I may be horribly horribly wrong here. Then there is nothing further to discuss; other than this tidbit. If Artanis[Xp] flips scum... I am going to think of you as near-confirmed town. If Artanis[Xp] flips town... I am going to think of you as confirmed scum. Thank god janitor power only applies on NKs. Peace out, back to work. | ||
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On April 08 2013 10:52 ObviousOne wrote: @Mocsta <3 never change | ||
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On April 08 2013 11:02 gonzaw wrote: Does anyone have old games from Sharrant, both town and scum? I only have Normal Mini Mafia 4 He was mislynched http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=394344 | ||
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ohh yeah forgot. thnx for clarification mislynched, misshot similar to things to me anyways. he was under scrutiny though regardless. | ||
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On April 08 2013 11:06 yamato77 wrote: Gonzaw, what do you think about killing sinani? Your assuming gonzaw outted himself as a day-vig / amercia / russia Im pretty sure he did it just to spruce convo. I think gonzaw is man enough to fire a target all on his own; instead of ask for permission. | ||
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On April 08 2013 11:12 gonzaw wrote: I hate scummy guys replacing though Something like that game can happen, where Ver was scum, got replaced, and his replacement acted in a way that made him survive until end-game or something. That sucks. I replaced into Normal Mini 4 the guy i replaced had a green check; and still many thought he could be godfather. If you want to come across as town; you can do it As for Sn0; yes its possible that he is the one chasing a replacement; I also know from my 3 games with him, he tends to AFK during the weekends. I still think if you were worried about being NK'd, so needed to use a KP today, Sinani is the best choice. Only because, if hes town; hes always going to have suspicion cast over him; and if he is scum.. well of course thats just plain awesome. | ||
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You guys are defying a very sound scum lynch in Artanis[Xp] To vote OO under the following pretense: (1) Didn't like an item of a meta-read, which was an extension to an already sound case. (2) You think he makes summary posts; when you yourself did the same thing regarding Sinani/Sn0Man prior? (3) You think he spams; which is contradictory because he calls out ppl for spamming. In regards to (3).. whilst that pisses me off.. the guy is a kid (I assume). And since when is spam indicative of alignment? OO was caught easily in hydra, because of his attempts to scum hunt. I dont see how (2) / (3) go anywhere close to finding applicable reasoning to call someone a scum read, in particular over Artanis[Xp] As for (1). thats a matter of personal opinion, and I cant hold that against Caller. Im curious as the inference from his post is that he thinks Artanis is town. And that his vote was a "trap" of sorts. I think this is the 2nd or 3rd time this game where Caller has backed out of actions by calling it a "trap". | ||
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On April 08 2013 11:25 Sharrant wrote: That timing is actually kind of amazing. Okay, so you're not convinced on Sinani, you just got two cases to read about Obvious, though I'll be honest I'd rather have him as a lynch. But I want to hear your thoughts on him now. Sharrant, im still waiting for a response to: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=76#1502 Prob wasnt clear, because I wrote Mr.Rant | ||
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Thing is: Keirathi and his role recommendation post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=34#663 NRA is desired by both partiesl and I can see why. It gives you awesome defense as town/scum against Day Kill and Night Kill. It also acts as a great trap pick for the early draftees. ============= Geript, whilst I have really liked your play this game. I think the move to jump to a conclusion to vote VE is too haste and requires a more fastidious attitude. VE play has been odd this game - that is undeniable. But odd does not 100% equate scum. I liked your case a lot; but I love the Artanis[Xp] case and what it unraveled. | ||
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On April 08 2013 12:35 Mocsta wrote: Fuck.. i wish I knew whether gonzaw took a shot or not. I see two possibilities Gonzaw was killed by assassin.. and that requires them to know he was "jack" >> day-vig OR Gonzaw visited the NRA member.. but im sure he would have told us he was going for a kill. All other KP require something to be typed into the thread. (during the day cycle) | ||
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On April 08 2013 12:45 Sharrant wrote: I'm pretty much 100% sure that that was an assassin kill. Gonzaw pretty much gave away his role earlier when he was figuring that he could withhold his shot today and have any possibility of surviving until the next day and being able to shoot. This makes Sinani look worse for fishing for his role now that it is fairly likely that scum have an assassin. It is possible that he was day vigi'd, but that is much much less likely in my opinion. Day-Vig requires something typed into thread. The thing is.. so many roles have day vig america russia dayvig jack i dunno. i find it unlikely the assassin was willing to risk getting the role wrong.. (cos that will make the power void) i might look through gonzaw filter for crumb. because right now.. i suspect NRA is much higher the question then becomes.. who did he try to kill... artanis or VE | ||
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On April 08 2013 12:45 Sharrant wrote: I'm pretty much 100% sure that that was an assassin kill. Gonzaw pretty much gave away his role earlier when he was figuring that he could withhold his shot today and have any possibility of surviving until the next day and being able to shoot. This makes Sinani look worse for fishing for his role now that it is fairly likely that scum have an assassin. It is possible that he was day vigi'd, but that is much much less likely in my opinion. Yeah im not getting that. Closest I could find was: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=76#1518 Thing is, he describes the KP as one-shot. Which reduces role to Day-Vig/Jack. He was also commenting freely about town vigging at night; as if he knew town had night kp (instead of assume). I think you're right; scum if role hunting, could have surmised with enough confidence gonzaw was jack. So assassin in play; i suggest no more roleclaims. As we dont know if BC is in play too. I suspect only Geript is a potential kill then, as he has rolecliamed. | ||
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On April 08 2013 12:49 Sharrant wrote: Are you 100% sure that Day vigs have to claim their shot in the thread? Do dayvigs have to claim in the thread? Please be around the thread for the next couple minutes, Mocsta, it's very important to me. Im here hunny, and changed my mind. Its assassin. Imm sure gonzaw woulda told us who he was hitting anyways (if NRA) | ||
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well its called tunnel vision. i was concentrating on how gonzaw could have died, and it came to what options are day-vig. I wasnt thinking how gonzaw could have visited NRA, i was thinking how gonzaw could have died. The conclusion you jump to is over the top if you had a town read on me prior. But, its a fair point. | ||
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On April 08 2013 12:57 Sharrant wrote: ??That's twice you've forgotten he actually would have had to write it into the thread, even though you mentioned it just a few minutes ago on the opposite side of the argument. I was looking through gonzaw filter when you and keirathi had an exchange. I made the post above; before reading what you wrote about "gonzaw having to type: ##kill" see, im a townie without all the information.. so i have to piece things together hence why it was fallacious initially; yet i came to the right conclusion in the end - just a different logic train. What i find odd is that you knew with 100% confidence that the death was by assassin. Yet you werent even sure how a day-vig works... NOW that is odd. Want to explain? | ||
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On April 08 2013 12:57 Keirathi wrote: So yea, Mocsta is (kinda) right. America, Russia, and Day-Vig are ruled out. I don't see Assassin gambling his power on gonzaw unless he found a lock tight crumb. And, if there is a solid crumb, that (maybe?) opens up the possibility of a BloodC0bbler too. NRA would make some sense, but gonzaw was claiming that he wasn't shooting even as the shot post came up. And who knows how long ago the shot was actually sent in and it took BC to get here and post the death. Meh. Looking back through filters a bit. I think BC is ruled out from the (quick) filter dive i did. =============== Now anways, lets get this show back on track. Gonzaw was a good scum hit; the timing is what is interesting. Are they trying to force us onto VE, because it happened when we were talking about him? hmmm.. for now, i want to maintain the legacy Gonzaw started. We keep the lynch on Artanis[Xp] | ||
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On April 08 2013 13:03 Keirathi wrote: Oh hmm. I guess you are right Sharrant. It specifically says that Jack skills are bound by the same rules as its regular counterparts. I honestly hadn't thought about it, and assumed that Jack sent in day kills silently, since his night vig kills would be silent. Keirathi, pls comment on my reversal of sharrant, where he knew that the assassin was the logical choice. Yet didnt even know how day-vig worked etc. | ||
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On April 08 2013 13:03 Sharrant wrote: This is the post where I knew with 100% certainty that he was the Jack. Scum should've known right then too. He's confident he can save his shot for tomorrow even having already said he could day vig. If I were in his position I'd be 100% sure that I don't live to see tomorrow. He's 100% confident that the town has at least 1 night vig shot. Jack is the only KP role that would let him live the night, and let him day vig. It was the only thing that fit how he was playing. Yeah, well the confidence about surviving night is an inference rather than direct read. Its more the certainty of town night KP that clarifies him as jack > day-vig. Either way; i know not all town read and look for the same things.. But, that you could recall this post so quickly post-hoc gonzaw death; makes me curious. At the same time, i dont think scum would be trying to get involved in identifying the kill as assassin in play so quickly. Both of us made fallacious comments regarding the matter though; you on the day-vig requirements ; me with the jack jay-vig requirements. All in all: I think this exchange firms up my read on you. | ||
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On April 08 2013 13:10 Sharrant wrote: I feel like you're trying to put suspicion on me, there's a reason I asked in the thread if day vig had to claim his shot. I was unaware of that restriction so thought dayvig could have been in play, but you said it couldn't have been because of the claim. So when Keirathi showed you were indeed correct, it showed that there was only one possible way he could have died, and you had enough information to know that too but you came to the wrong conclusion. Perhaps it was an earnest oversight on your part, but you should have known immediately. The fact you had referenced it so recently but failed to take it into consideration is suspicious. That you're trying to turn this around on me like that makes it doubly so to me. You're an idiot. I was the one trying to openly solve what happened, by laying suggestions and looking for feedback. Why do I have to be right about something I dont have full context for. We have logically deduced it had to be assassin. That is not from me, or you; but teamwork in sharing ideas. You comment on me; when im looking for something specific.. just because your fixation was on a different piece of logic does not make me scum. If you think i was trying to manipulate ppl into thinking it was only NRA, go ahead then and call me scum. But i think i was pretty fucking transparent about the whole exchange. | ||
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On April 08 2013 13:13 yamato77 wrote: Sentiment is fine.. but i need to extend the thoughts as per:It doesn't matter what killed him, it matters why. Gonzaw was killed because he was obviously town and people were forming around him. What did he advocate? Killing artanis. Let's murder him. On April 08 2013 13:03 Mocsta wrote: The posts identifying Gonzaw as "jack" were from ~8hrs ago.Now anways, lets get this show back on track. Gonzaw was a good scum hit; the timing is what is interesting. Are they trying to force us onto VE, because it happened when we were talking about him? hmmm.. for now, i want to maintain the legacy Gonzaw started. We keep the lynch on Artanis[Xp] i.e. He could have been killed anytime between 8hrs ago, and just before the cycle finished. If they wanted to kill him due to the artanis case.. well... its odd they waited so long. and I choose not to use timezone as a reason for delay. The thread topic at the time was: Geript/VE NRA item. Which was potentially juicy enough to get a wagon off Artanis Im saying this all this, because if Artanis (who we are lynching) flips red.. im inclined to think VE is town. | ||
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On April 08 2013 13:14 Bill Murray wrote: Mocsta, I haven't fully caught up. What is the case on Artanis? You look really town right now, so I don't mind sheeping you. Check artanis filter. He replies to the case directly in snippets.. so you can get a feel for the back/forth. U can also check austinmcc.. 50% of his filter is devoted to standing up for Artanis. | ||
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On April 08 2013 13:13 Keirathi wrote: But that's mostly irrelevant. The bigger question is why were you thinking so hard about what gonzaw's role was in the post you quoted? I agree, and want an answer from Sharrant as well. | ||
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Dude, whether you are behind the thread or not. I have heard many tales of the legend of "Bill Murray" I thought you were meant to have a pair of balls? So far, your play has left me pretty limp - and being young, dumb and full of cum... I dont like that. | ||
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On April 08 2013 13:23 yamato77 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 08 2013 13:18 Mocsta wrote: Sentiment is fine.. but i need to extend the thoughts as per: The posts identifying Gonzaw as "jack" were from ~8hrs ago. i.e. He could have been killed anytime between 8hrs ago, and just before the cycle finished. If they wanted to kill him due to the artanis case.. well... its odd they waited so long. and I choose not to use timezone as a reason for delay. The thread topic at the time was: Geript/VE NRA item. Which was potentially juicy enough to get a wagon off Artanis Im saying this all this, because if Artanis (who we are lynching) flips red.. im inclined to think VE is town. 1) You don't know when the shot was sent. Touche, and fair point. Using that, OK, I can agree the VE heuristic is flawed. Shame, because the timing was impeccable. | ||
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On April 08 2013 13:24 Sharrant wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 08 2013 13:11 Mocsta wrote: Yeah, well the confidence about surviving night is an inference rather than direct read. Its more the certainty of town night KP that clarifies him as jack > day-vig. Either way; i know not all town read and look for the same things.. But, that you could recall this post so quickly post-hoc gonzaw death; makes me curious. At the same time, i dont think scum would be trying to get involved in identifying the kill as assassin in play so quickly. Both of us made fallacious comments regarding the matter though; you on the day-vig requirements ; me with the jack jay-vig requirements. All in all: I think this exchange firms up my read on you. What is my fallacious comment on day vig requirements? What is fallacious is that you immediately jumped to a conclusion regarding the KP. i.e You instantly knew it was from the assassin, yet, you did not understand how the day-vig operated. It is fallacious because you are made a conclusion without grasping the full context of the situation. It actually doesn't matter that you were right; because, originally, you were right for the wrong reasons. + Show Spoiler + On April 08 2013 13:13 Keirathi wrote: I admit it's weird. Then why are you not pressuring me? I also said that NRA was a possibility, and I'm the one that told you that day-vig had to type it in thread. But that's mostly irrelevant. The bigger question is why were you thinking so hard about what gonzaw's role was in the post you quoted? I specifically asked you about the day vig requirements, that's why. It came across to me as very unlikely that he could propose an idea on what happened when his entire idea is proven wrong by a piece of knowledge he already used in that same idea. IE Knowing that Gonzaw could not have been dayvigged because there was no shot in the thread, but not knowing that Gonzaw could not have shot because he did not write it in the thread. But you never stated anything similar, I had no reason to believe you had thought about that at the time, and it seems like you overlooked it both ways as opposed to in just one. And to answer your question, that was not thinking very hard. It was just fairly obvious as soon as he stated he would most likely withhold his shot. If he had no protection or night shot then he was forced to shoot today or have wasted his role. I think it's pretty simple to deduce from that post. Im going to explain myself one last time, and then thats it. If you refuse to accept; then you are tunneled dear Sharrant. Gonzaw died during the day. I tried to figure out how he could die during the day, and listed roles. I was looking at how gonzaw could die..... and wasnt considering how gonzaw could kill others. i.e. gonzaw could die from NRA... i wasnt considering he had to initiate the visit by typing. What dont you understand? If anything.. the authenticity of my actions regarding solving this make me confirmed town. As I said before.. if you think i was trying to manipulate the thread into jumping all over NRA.. why would I say im looking for crumbs? and then before you accuse me of being scum... agree it was assassin? You have a stupid fixation right now, and it needs to stop. This is shitting up the thread. Im talking to you like this, because I think your actions/responses/pig-headed are indicative of town alignment. If I thought you were scum, this exchange would be going down much different. | ||
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On April 08 2013 13:34 geript wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Geript, it is fantastic you have made it clear you think VE is scum.I have the exact opposite read on this. Yes, I agree that they killed Gonzaw because he was active and we were forming around him, but I think this implicates VE far more than Artanis. I first considering VE going for NRA when I reread his filter from this post: On April 05 2013 11:55 VisceraEyes wrote:Now, I fully did NOT expect to be so high in the draft. As a result, I'm ill-prepared. On the one hand, I promised myself that if I was in the top 10 I'd try for a specific role. On the other hand, being SO high up makes me a good counter-picking candidate. However considering my low thread presence this game, I can understand reservations with this. Of the top 5, I didn't think that either Rayn or Sno would take NRA member. I can't rule it out but it would seem exceptionally odd. I imagine that OO would take something else. The two who I could realistically see taking it are Sinani and VE. For me, VE confirmed it with this exchange: On April 07 2013 04:40 geript wrote: VE I know you picked out of fear. Why? On April 07 2013 04:47 VisceraEyes wrote: What are you referring to? On April 07 2013 04:50 geript wrote: Your role. On April 07 2013 04:50 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh cool, and you want to out my role to the thread. Neat. Seriously fuck this game. He acknowledges that in a sense that I both know his role and that he picked his role out of fear. That leads primarily to VE being the NRA member. Even Gonzaw agreed with me. On April 08 2013 12:13 gonzaw wrote: There's a chance Sno or sinani took NRA member... ....goddamn now I feel so much better for not shooting either of them yet :/ The NRA member out of them and VE could claim, although it does seem it's likely VE. For anyone at 1-5 place taking NRA member....it's weird as fuck if they are town. At that stage you wouldn't take NRA member I think. Oh well, geript did, but geript tried to be townie so it makes sense (neither sinani/Sno/VE tried to be townie, and I'd say OO and rayn don't seem to me like they'd take NRA member either if they are town). Think with your head. You're being stupid Moc. This was not a kill to since Gonzaw from continuing on the Artanis train. I have a strong feeling like Artanis is town, I need to reread the cases and points again and his responses, but this kill has nothing to implicate Artanis. There is no doubt that the entire thread knows your stance. The issue is: VE has not added anything new to the table. Either in response to your qualms, or the thread sentiment. Inactivity is not a scum tell, and your case is based on early play; so is not the strongest indicator. Yes I expect more from VE; Yes I like your case on VE, [b]BUT[B/] we can only lynch one person a cycle. The evidence is much harder; much more recent; and much more damning on Artanis[Xp]. Im also getting tired off you beating the same old drum repeatedly. Yes you need to stay on a scum target; but, VE is clearly not reciprocating. You need to find an alternative target to pass the time, whilst VE is not present. I'm not against a VE lynch, heck, theres a very high chance both VE/Artanis are scum. Henceforth, VE would be more sound due to the possiblity of holding the highly valued NRA role. However, your train of thought is that Artanis is town. I am curious to hear the reasonings when you have completed your read. Unfortunately, it also places your VE read into jeopardy. Why? Because, the whole scenario reads as if you are so tunneled into VE being scum that you are willing to ignore everything else to secure your lynch. In fact, it actually reads more as a personal vendetta/challenge, than a genuine attempt to help town lynch scum. Thus, with the "blinkers" on, can we even trust that VE is scum based on your logic? This is exacerbated by your rash claim that Artanis[Xp] is town. Further, consider what Keirathi stated early Day 0. NRA is desirable for both alignments, and thus, does not add anything to your early case. | ||
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On April 08 2013 13:41 yamato77 wrote: Stop talking about this dumb shit, Mocsta. What's your read on Oats? Dick fuck. Someone is calling me scum. Repeatedly. Dont tell me to stop talking about it. Tell him. My latest read on Oats is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=74#1464 For your benefit + Show Spoiler + On April 08 2013 09:33 Mocsta wrote: (3) Oats is starting to really cross the line for me from town -> null; possibly approaching slightly leaning scum. He has been nothing but disruptive; continuously cock-blocking scum hunting, to then throw a blanket "Vivax is scum" statement. The below is not a case; I just want to hear opinions on whether I am taking this interaction personally, or whether it indeed conflicts. Exhibit A Oats stance is clear: Thinks Artanis looks scummy; and then still wants to push the unfounded Vivax lynch. Exhibit B To me its ambiguous how deep Oats finds Artanis scummy. The tone seems jovial; however, the words express suspicion. I find this interaction just weird overall. If i haphazard a guess; I would stick with the Exhibit A read: i.e. he finds him scummy. Exhibit C He is saying, I am confirmation biased for pushing Artanis as scum ?!?! Lets go back to Exhibit A please: "I agree that artanis looks scummy." This is quite a bizarre statement. Even in conjunction with Exhibit B, there is not enough doubt from Oats regarding Artanis alignment to suddenly think he is a town read. Even if he is making this post to attack my character; and not actually comment on this thoughts on Artanis.. what is the point regardless? Im pushing someone, he admitted he thinks looks scummy. I can't fathom what he is trying to achieve other than a "cock-block" by making that post. Exhibit D This is Oats addressing his #1 scumspect that has reentered the thread. To me: this doesnt read as a person critically challenging his scum target. Now those that know Oats, knows 90% of his questions are useless and have no actual purpose; so I wont hold this interaction against him. The problem is the follow exhibit. Exhibit E He says he prefers Vivax (which is fine follow through).. yet bandwagons on Artanis? LIke WTF? It hasnt even been clear Oats is a staunch supporter of the artanis wagon; yet, now jumps on. This is after Exhibit C, where he tries to ridicule me for being the first supporter (after Gonzaw) on the Artanis wagon? I asked ppl to comment, no one did. You know Oats as well as I, so would appreciate your feedback. | ||
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On April 08 2013 13:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: we can wifom what scum want us to think by the gonzaw kill from here till kingdom come but we won't get anywhere. Ultimately we need to stick with artanis as he has been consistently scummy and pushed by a now confirmed townie. @Yamato. I'm really tired with you calling me scum and never backing it up, come up with some reasons or shut up. Read on Yam pls. Town, null, scum? | ||
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On April 08 2013 14:01 Keirathi wrote: Not interested in Oats at all. Sometime I learned from the last 2 games where Oats was town and I lynched him (or at least, really wanted to): when Oats is in your face and every post he makes is annoying and you want to e-punch him, he's probably town. I agree, in particular about the e-punch. But, i also find him traditionally more helpful early game. By end game he is an blatant sheeper. Perhaps hes just still looking for a shepherd. | ||
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On April 08 2013 14:10 geript wrote: @Moc Could you explain what you meant by how Artanis defended himself he couldn't remove the mafia mindset? Sure. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=66#1315 Yea in short, he chooses to asphyxiate himself onto keywords in each section; rather than address the whole argument. He tries to blow up the small meaningless items out out of proportions; and ignores many of the key issues. Because Im bored, I will share my thoughts on his retort (even though I have plenty of posts detailing the matter later on) + Show Spoiler + (1) Introduction Gonzaw keypoint: "The active players, criticised ideas and tried to move town forward" Artanis: I pushed RNG => I was productive. This doesnt even tackle the crux of what Gonzaw said. Artanis concept of pushing the case is: "I pushed it when people weren't discussing it and asked people how they felt about it". Thats not pushing anything, that is just bringing something to to attention and trying to satisfy the town check list. He never tried to gain traction with the plan; the "pipe ups to be heard" lacked conviction - which even his biggest advocate (AustinMCC) admitted. Thus; whilst the plan was pro-town in nature, Artanis was not actually a great productive asset to town. e.g. Just because a townie has the right read on a scummer, doesnt make the townie useful. He still needs to convince everyone that the particular target is scum. Artanis failed miserably in this regard. Further, him criticising yamto is not a town tell. Scum have just as much want to control the flow of town, especially early game. (2) "Hiding in plain sight" via set discussion (a) Gonzaw keypoint: "For instance, take yamatos filter as comparison. See how he approaches the discussion about role picking. Now check how Artanis approaches said discussion" Artanis: completely ignores the key point to say: "I am contributing. Therefore, he stands by: having an idea, and bringing it to the fore makes him town. - which is complete crap. (b) Gonzaw keypoint: "This is a fact: Artanis chimed in with setup discssuion, and even proposed a "pro-town plan", yet he had absolutely no impact in the game at all. He was just a passenger int he thread discussion." Artanis: Admits all he did for this plan was "ask" for it to take off. Then gives excuses to why it shouldnt matter it didnt take off. He doesnt comment on having no impact in the game; and instead chooses to come up with reasons for why the plan failed to gain traction; where all the reasons are not his fault. Yet ignores the simplest one, that gives him accountability. He lacked conviction, and never tried to elicit genuine reactions. (3) Unnecessary complaints that happen out of place (a) Gonzaw keypoint: "Complains about thread sentiment to then say how good his idea is.. but still not trying to get it endorsed" Artanis: Makes it clear I want people to talk about it If I had a plan, i dont care about that.. I want my plan to take off.. here is a clear mafia mindset; I have an idea and want it discussed.. but i have no intention of doing anything with it. (b) Gonzaw keypoint: "Talks sparsely about many topics, to give the impression of keeping up with the thread" Artanis: Thinks he says very much with a little words (completely missing the point). Then throws in the newbie card as well, saying hes not experienced in this style yet. (4) Geript case (a) Gonzaw keypoint: the case is a dud Artanis: "i also presented my suspicions a bit stronger than they were because i wanted people to actually pay attention to them" Which is funny, because why couldnt he do this with RNG plan? Which he "truly believed in"??? That my friends, *is* a scum slip. After further prodding, he adds in "but thats wrong. It IS something I believed in".. odd because above, he says he presented stronger than he thought it was. Conflict in story. (5) Aggressive "fake" behaviour Gonzaw keypoint: overtly ad-hominem" Artanis: says his aggression is pressure.. which isnt the point. There is townie confident pressure. and there is scum overly antagonistic pressure. I know this, because when im scum; I get a feeling over me to be antagonistic and put ppl down a lot more and call out stupid things. This is the whole ad-hominem side of things. Now many disagreed with this section; because yes, a townie full of fury can go full ad-hom. But, typically there is a distinct build up to this point. Artanis is quite calm, and as soon as he sees something he latches onto; changes personality to ad-hom. This is completely ignored by his rebuttle. (6) Other stuff Gonzaw keypoint: flying under radar Artanis: completely ignores the point; and says "yeah scum never mention scumbuddies" is wifom. Whether true or not, doesnt address that artanis is flying under the radar. | ||
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On April 08 2013 15:13 VisceraEyes wrote: I just got back and wow. Jesus. So...there's a lot to take in. I know I'm not much of a presence in this game, but I seriously need to reread everything before I post again. My initial thoughts before doing so: scum trying to set me up maybe? -.- God I look horrible. *Fluff* This post reminds me of your reaction to Snarfs when he proceeded to bus you without your consent in Nomination Mafia. Enjoy the catchup read. | ||
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On April 08 2013 15:26 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: eh I guess you're still stupid. Of course I'm commenting on you calling me scum, you've called me scum but never justified it, your reasons for calling me scum are self fulfilling. I've contributed ten times more than you have to the actual relevant discussion that has occurred today. Done talking to you until you can either a) write an actual case about me or b) come up with some interesting reads (other than sheeping me and gonzaw on artanis). This whole exchange is weird, and is primarily the reason I asked for your read on Yam. You see, when I read this: I get the feeling you are talking to someone that you believe is town. Yet you called him null. Its a similar interaction to how I talk to Oats when I think he is town.. annoys the fuck out of me, but you accept it. | ||
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On April 06 2013 08:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Are you saying that like Vivax he rolls scum in 100% of his games regardless of his role PM? Artanis[Xp] Want to give a read on Vivax pl0x. Even though this comment was a figure of speech, Vivax is in this game. | ||
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On April 08 2013 17:19 yamato77 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 08 2013 17:18 Shelvocke wrote: I think yamato shot gonzaw. I can't prove it, but it's the explanation that makes best sense to me right now going by people's reactions. I'm not entirely sure if he's the kind of person who would do that as town, but just skimming through the last normalish town game of his (Town Aint Big Mafia), I think it's entirely possible. Going to sleep on this, but that's where I'm at right now. If I shot Gonzaw, you would know. And no, I wouldn't do that as town. I shoot lurky/trollish people. Vig shots are for unreadables. Kurumi can attest to that in personality2 | ||
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On April 08 2013 17:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Yeah, because killing the person who put a massive case on you doesn't get you even more attention. The basic level is that they figured out Gonzaw was a jack and that gonzaw is a strong town player. There is no more motivation needed, anything else is a bonus. Especially since I'm not actually scum and it gives a great argument to push my lynch home. The timing is convenient as well. Give gonzaw plenty of time to hammer his point through rather than immediately after his case to make sure it's still on everyone's mind. Come on Yamato, think critically here. Wifom at its best sir. Firstly. As I pointed out prior. To those role hunting. Gonzaw outted himself about 12hrs ago. Yes the reasons u listed are completely valid reasons to kill him. Its also possible they waited for an opportune time. U know. 2 birds 1 stone. But ultimately as yam pointed out. There is no way to ascertain when the kill order was given. So its all wifom. Hence ur point with timing is wifom. Simple take is. He dead and scum assassin confirmed in the game. Its a popular role, so could even surmise its in the top 8 picks. ....... P.s. I re read your filter. My thoughts haven't changed. And in hindsight, ur plan wasn't that pro town. U only wanted one or two ppl to RNG, at their liberty. And importantly, u even said it was only relevant if the yam plan got traction. Yeah u pushed it a couple times, but considering u were aware it success hinged upon the traction of something else. Its not even a good plan at face value. Lastly, in ur gonzaw defends. I'm having a very hard time believing u when u state u overplayed the geript case more than u felt it was worth. To me it felt like u were banking on it pretty hard. Second lastly, u said u was going to scum hunt. All I have seen is a large list post, nominating some as scummy. With zero followup or pressure. | ||
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Your conclusion is ur death won't be prevented. So why argue whether yam thinks u sscummier post gonzaw. Sounds to me like u trying to shit up the thread | ||
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BTW, u dodged my query about pressure/follow up with ya scumspects. I don't care who u think is town or scum. I care how u go about scum hunting. | ||
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On April 08 2013 17:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Because I think it's a bullshit reason and I'm calling people out for voting on me for bullshit reasons. Are you not interested in people jumping on my bandwagon, or is anyone that votes me automatically town? No. But yam is town regardless of voting u. Frankly I'm surprised u aren't reacting to bill Murray. That was a scummy as fuck vote if I seen one. Yet here u antagonise a player u know will bite back. Henceforth: shitting up the thread | ||
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On April 08 2013 18:13 yamato77 wrote: This post alone is enough for me, actually. ##Vote Sinani Because you think an scum assassin is that stupid to either implicate themselves as assassin; or themselves as scum hunting for team assassin? Im disapointed how easily you have been swayed off Artanis. This whole exchange has resulted in logic changes too quickly for my liking. I dont really give a fuck whether his reads are synonymous with yours; because what he espoused was a rehash of I believe Keirathi. Someone already specifically highlighted the "safe" text. | ||
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On April 08 2013 18:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Shelvocke is still my top priority. This puts me in a quandry; I can't see scum leading a bandwagon on another scum. Artanis, are you going to be online in 4 to 5 hrs time? | ||
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On April 08 2013 18:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I should be home at 5pm CEST and have some time then. I should be working right now honestly. i dunno wat 5pm cest means heheh its 5:30 here, and im afk for next 3-4 hrs | ||
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On April 08 2013 18:25 yamato77 wrote: I don't trust you, Moc, so it's okay, I don't really care what you think. Sinani is a better lynch. Less reason to think he's town. no1 is going to sheep u whilst im here. that im certain of. after all, your the guy that started off strong and then decided to hide under the guise of.. doing my own scum hunting. so far all im reading is u joining ya scum reads scum target.. after he gave a summary of someone elses read. if this is the new yam 2.0; i am thoroughly not impressed; not that u care of course. | ||
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On April 08 2013 18:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote: There's a convenient timer for you at the top right corner. kk 6 hrs. i will try to be around. but cant guarantee gotta go. ciao | ||
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I thought u were town, until you went bat shit stupid and 180'd blatantly without a discrete flow of logic to back it up. Its pretty clear what I said. 10min you were dead set on artanis. Then you set him up to give you a read on sinani. He gives you a carbon copy of someone elses case. you unvote artanis based on sharing the same read. wtf type of shit is that. so yeah, my read is evolving as new context comes to bear. | ||
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On April 08 2013 19:07 Oatsmaster wrote: Artanis is being reasonable, let him talk Mocsta. Mocsta, NOTHING IS PERSONAL. try and step back and not PISS EVERYONE IN THE GAME OFF. How about Mocsta, you give a lynch target that hasnt really been bounced around and we talk about it? Didnt you notice i tried to arrange a time to talk to him? I am open to changing my view; the difference with yam is that there is no flow from how he went gung ho art, to dropping it all together. His willingness to lynch Shevlocke, has got be at loggerheads. Both can't be scum; and the top two candidates I believe were Artanis/Shevlocke. If you want someone else to talk about, its difficult, many have skated by without posting. E.g. BM has done bugger all; and Vivax is worse in that regard. Yeah, they seem scummy; but do we actually have enough to give a proper case vs a policy lynch. Would you consider a policy lynch; on your favourite from last night: Vivax/Ghor. | ||
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On April 08 2013 20:11 Oatsmaster wrote: Is yam scum? Or would you prefer him not to do those things again? What policy lynch? I think he is scum. I dont care what reasoning you use to lynch him(Vivax) Mocsta. BM has been so retarded. I dont have a read on him other than 'too retarded to me mafia' which might be wrong. Also Palmar called him scum, and Im not feeling Palmar's townieness. What do you think about Palmar? Im ok with Palmar right now; if im alive day 2, and he hasnt changed - different story. Remember in nomination, you put some marv quote about palmar and his activity day1 - its simply not indicative of alignment for him. After dinner, I am going to review Vivax/Shevlocke/Artanis/Sinani. The lynch should probably be out of those 4. I want BM in there, but its too many ppl to deeply filter, and your right, maybe hes just a troll. As for yam; i dunno.. i would prefer him to not do those things again.. I dont have a problem him wanting to change lynch to Sinani; its that he did it because Artanis supported it *AND* there was no progression of him thinking Artanis was town. Thats just blatantly odd. Its enough for me to revert yam back to null or weak town. ===== Oats You have wanted Vivax lynched, but have only said passing comments "he is scum" can you please put together a couple points on what makes him a better contender than others. | ||
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On April 08 2013 21:07 Restraining Order wrote: People scared of claiming, when the assassin has already shot.. And since with mafia already having the assassin, they'd also pick one of the numerous rolecop options. So, he'll be able to shoot every day regardless of your claiming. Just saying. I still want to lynch Artanis, more than ever. Fuck the stupid wifom defenses some of you guys come up with. VE also still scum. I'm not sure how good the reasons to think he's NRA are, but I'd worry about that tomorrow. Today is Artanis-day. Im not sure if knowing you are DI, is affecting my judgement. But i really dont like this post. We dont know for certain they have a role cop. If you want to go ahead and give us your role; go ahead. I certainly will not share what I am; nor do I recommend other members of town to share. | ||
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On April 08 2013 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also I looked up Vivax' meta, Oats. I don't think he's scum. His OMGUS on you and the fact that he didn't put any pressure on anyone in the early game other than that rubs me the wrong way, but he's been picking it up since then and showing the stream of consciousness that I'm used to seeing from a town Vivax. In his LX scum game he had a lot of small posts with no real meaning and large posts whenever he thought it was time to make it look like he was contributing. His posting style in this game is very different from that. Artanis if you have the time for meta reads. Perhaps the best game to flick through is "The Game". Vivax was a blue vig; but in particular took on a completed revamped play style with more focus in general. Its also worth considering he is smurfing as "Ghor" in "Ego Mani or Noir, i cant remember. Obviously alignment is not known however. =============== Let me know when your ready to chat, and I will muster a couple questions for you. | ||
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On April 08 2013 21:56 Restraining Order wrote: It's not about NEEDING more. But if there ARE more, a mafiateam would gladly take it. In the end, this is a horrible point. I understand why you want to argue it, since it goes against you strongly, but that doesn't make it a good one by any stretch. Au contraire. DI, I much preferred your posting before you smurf was revealed. It reads now like you have defaulted back to normal DI. Which is a shame. Can we stop this line of discussion. Its all WIFOM. We dont know when the kill order was submitted; so its pointless continuing this. Traditional scum hunting *will* bear better results. Let's talk about who you want to lynch instead of yourself. I believe the reasoning for Artanis vote from you solely, was ##SheepYou only defending yourself, it's getting boring. Why are you not pushing Shelvocke hardcore yet? Prior to that, you said you agree with Geript that VE is scum; and that you would be happy to shoot Sn0_Man. Walk me through why you are more adamant that Artanis needs to go since the assassination | ||
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Lets put the past behind us, and have a fresh start. The questions I wanted to ask prior, for whatever, I dont want to ask anymore. So hopefully these ones are still of value. (1) RO was the person who introduced the concept of VT claiming. In more detail: it was claim what role you tried for, if you became a VT. - the idea was to determine scum power roles. With hindsight (i.e. assassin in the mix): Does this alter your perception of RO? (1 Corollary) I supported RO idea of forced VTs(At the time) Does this affect your opinion of me? (2) You posted prior that you like a Sinani lynch. Is this a lurker "stab in the dark" lynch; or do you think there is enough content in the filter to warrant a justified scum lynch? (3) Is your Vivax town read founded purely on that you expect him to be disruptive; but he isnt? Hence, are you applying Vivax specific heuristics - is this the case? Are you familiar enough with Vivax to even consider having specific heuristics? (4) Blanket question. 5 scum. At least one typically will have an active-ish presence. With the current game situation: Where do you prefer to look for first scum lynch. The 3-4 typical lurkers/blenders? Or the 1-2 actives trying to get influence? (5) Can you please reconfirm who your #1 scumspect is. You have identified several as scummy; but it isnt clear, who you would bank on. | ||
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On April 08 2013 22:40 Palmar wrote: + Show Spoiler + Alright people, I'm going to contribute so you don't think I'm scum. Sn0_man obviousone Raynpelikoneet Sinani206 Visceraeyes One of these people is the NRA, assuming geript's claim is true. Let's look at who wants to pick NRA. a) Mafia who wants to avoid townies going after him b) Townies who thinks mafia is going to go after him. I'll be perfectly honest here, I thought about picking NRA. The reason being I'm shot night 1 very often when I'm town. It's as simple as that, it's the best self-protective role in the game. Now the reason (aside from my position in the draft) I actually did not decide to go for the role was that I wasn't going to be posting the amount or content required to clearly paint myself town. It would actually be an anti-town role if I took it, because of the possibility that someone unsure of my alignment would decide to check me or something. So, we can safely assume that the person who has the NRA role either thinks he's doing a splendid job of looking so townie that mafia wants to shoot him and town does not want to do anything to him, or he's scum. My problem is that none of these top 5 players look like they're putting in the effort to be a town-sided NRA, so I am almost certain that whoever picked the NRA role must be scum. Assassin is another role I really wanted, but meh. Here's the thing, whoever holds the assassin role is almost certainly scum. The reason for this is that if I had the role I would DEFINITELY shoot on day 1. Worst case scenario is that I shoot a townie who doesn't die and gets mod-confirmed town, it also looks great for me since mafia assassin would almost certainly never pull that powerplay. so yeah, shooting day 1 worst case = 1 confirmed townie and a very likely townie in the assassin. Lose power best case scenario = kill scum So why not? Because our assassin (assuming someone took the role) is scum. My o My In Nomination mafia, you went from low cred, lurker-bait to high cred, near-confirmed townie in a handful of posts. In Red Teams Prize, you were clearly town from your first couple posts. What im hinting at is: I am fully aware Palmar has the communication skills to be confirmed town, if he wants to be. And so far, we aint getting any of it. Was the above meant to have a conclusion? P.S. Im leaving this post intentionally as vague, as how you left yours. | ||
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On April 08 2013 22:51 Palmar wrote: also I'm not sure we should back off artanis. Gonzaw made a pretty good case against him and paid with his life. The least we can do is make sure we don't let the mafia change our minds. I'm going to have to be very convinced artanis is town before I back off this. Thats an interesting comment. By mafia: do you infer due to the actions of gonzaw death Or do you infer, the words out of Artanis mouth? ================ You asked me for 2 names before to give opinions on. I would like to add a 3rd name. Please give me thoughts on Restraining Order. | ||
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Please give me thought on below On April 08 2013 22:49 Mocsta wrote: (1) RO was the person who introduced the concept of VT claiming. In more detail: it was claim what role you tried for, if you became a VT. - the idea was to determine scum power roles. With hindsight (i.e. assassin in the mix): Does this alter your perception of RO? | ||
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On April 08 2013 23:20 strongandbig wrote: VE is the only one of the list above geript who is a likely check or vig target but not a likely early lynch. Plus, if you look at his play it's like he's trying to draw vig shots or dt checks. He is most likely the scum NRA member.. I agree with this. I also have been liking Artanis recent relpies, they are a lot more well thought out. Im not sure if I consider Artanis town yet; but Im willing to prioritise VE. ##Unvote ##Vote: VisceraEyes | ||
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On April 08 2013 23:37 Caller wrote: thats nice vivax. artanis you have 8 minutes. and what is his claim going to prove? | ||
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On April 08 2013 23:40 Caller wrote: because he's going to be bloody lynched anyways. Who knows, we might have interesting revelations ^_^ Nope VE is getting lynched. | ||
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On April 08 2013 23:41 Caller wrote: artanis i REALLY dont care if i die if i kill you. At. All. so you better claim, because your reasoning earlier didn't actually address the claim issue. If u dont care Shoot VE then. | ||
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i saw your vote for VE. Lay it out for me hunny | ||
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On April 08 2013 23:48 Caller wrote: too late, your fate is sealed. Are you admitting to be "showtime' or soemthign lol | ||
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On April 08 2013 23:58 Ghor wrote: Giving out your opinion on Artanis after Caller seemingly shot him is pretty useless, and scummy. Will you lynch Caller if Artanis flips green or not?That's what matters. Nope VE lynched today.. hes basically unkillable day or night (if NRA.. which as SnB pointed out seems likely based on his playstyle of trying to draw that attention) | ||
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This is a whole bunch of terrible posts from you in a row. He begged to be killed.. i dont see artanis doing that. very poor assertion here. | ||
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On April 09 2013 00:18 Restraining Order wrote: You are becoming a Vivax. It's really sad to see how many people decide to be Vivaxes. Nope. Your comment was incorrect; and miscontrued a point. Artanis is nothing like the Kurumi in personality | ||
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On April 09 2013 00:28 Restraining Order wrote: I can practically feel Vivax/Mocsta typing up a furious post about how this post I just wrote is supposed to make me scum. I can feel it coming. Nope; im not furious at all. Frankly, it wasnt clear to me you were referencing "anonymous vig making noise"; but regardless, there is no parallel with Personality 2. Personality2: Yamato killed kurumi and *then* claimed the kill. PYP: Caller decided to make a spectacle of the apparent death/showtime before apparently sanctioning the kill. I repeat there is no correlation between what yam did in personality 2 and this game. I stand by that. Fact is: Caller has retreated on any move he has made this game, citing "trap" I dont see how this is any different. So you can call me a Vivax or whatever; but when I see misconstrued statements trying to pass off as a contribution.. I am going to call that person out; just as others do to me. It has nothing to do whether you are Dandel Ion or not. | ||
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On April 09 2013 00:41 Oatsmaster wrote: nope Yamato made a spectacle too. With the alignment check IN THREAD. Then the 'pro gf shot right here' Then the aftermath. Its the same. Just that there was more activity in personality at that time then here. The basic point is similar. PLEASE DONT BE STUPID. Your the idiot. Yam never gave kurumi an opportunity to fix his play/fight for his life. The kill already went through with the alignment check. Hence, all this noise you are talking about, was post-incoming death. Caller made it clear; Artanis had time to respond; as if he had a nuke. He was making a spectacle pre-death sanction. Again, there is no similarity. You are really starting to agitate me. You feel the urge to chime in incessantly to argue small matters. Whats your fucking problem. | ||
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On April 09 2013 00:56 austinmcc wrote: Any reason in particular why I should lynch VE over shelvocke? Yeah His playstyle this game is suitable if he NRA as per SnB diagnosis. If he is NRA, then, he needs to be lynched. | ||
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vote ve | ||
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Caller you are an idiot. Why would scum lead a lynch on NRA member who benefits from being cast as dodgy and suspect to investigation. There's been lots of productive convo since the deaths. Shelvocke is certainly confirmed town. Based on artanis actions. For day2 I would be keen on a Palmar lynch. its clear as water he is only trolling this game. In fact. I asked him for a read on vivax earlier. He lists him as confirmed town with no justification. Whereas the case from restraining ordewr does show some nice with artanis, who also called him town, Palmar early votes ve and artanis. But never walks us through why. Its all sheep to thread sentiment. so he gets no town cred for it. Then he comes in to throw suspicion over ppl that moved off artanis. Which is ridiculous. ,as most thought he improved his towniness, and again why move from scum to scum. The crux of choosing ve over artanis was the NRA role which had to be lynched to avoid a town kp sacrifice. | ||
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I,ve been waiting so hard so long My balls are blue I need release. | ||
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On April 07 2013 18:39 Palmar wrote: VE is very far from likely town. Shut up Oats. I like this quote Palmar from u | ||
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On April 09 2013 08:50 geript wrote: @Mocsta how do you feel about austin? I havnt liked Austin since the beginning of the game; and FoS him. Hes a slippery player; but is also capable of playing poorly as town (see Mafia LIX). I really didnt like the exchanges regarding Artanis; even after he conceded most of the arguments to me - he still called Artanis town. And this was prior to Gonzaw death and Art shaping up. That doesnt cement him as scum though; Austin likes to be devils advocate regardless of alignment. In short - what im saying is: Austin takes a lot of effort to come to a set conclusion over. I still dont like his play, but, I think there is easier scum to catch and filter trawl than AustinMCC. ================== We are in a good position from Day1, but have no idea where we will be after Night1. We know scum KP will be on town; but if town has night KP we have no idea if it will be on scum. In particular, if a janitor is used. | ||
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On April 09 2013 09:05 Palmar wrote: no mocsta wants to lynch be because I was right about scum and he doesn't understand why. + Show Spoiler + It's a common thing, here's an old quote from bugs about me: On August 24 2011 19:51 wherebugsgo wrote: You're not scum because you're right. You're scum because you were right when no one else was. I was town. Nice try Beard Man. I want to lynch you because this game you have been nothing but empty promises; or perhaps a cleanly shaved face. Yes you voted VE early, but were not the initiator. + Show Spoiler + On April 07 2013 03:28 geript wrote: ##vote Visceraeyes On April 07 2013 06:24 Palmar wrote: ##Vote VisceraEyes Yes, you were suspicious of VE early, but, the push never had conviction. + Show Spoiler + On April 07 2013 00:42 Palmar wrote: I think VE is scum based on activity alone. Still not spent time reading vivax. On April 08 2013 09:46 Palmar wrote: I just love killing VE dude, that's all. also I thought his post regarding the plans was overly fake for VE. Yes, you "knew" VE was scum, but, you never made an effort to convince others; instead you antagonise/berate. + Show Spoiler + On April 07 2013 18:39 Palmar wrote: VE is very far from likely town. Shut up Oats. Yes, Artanis flipped scum, but, since when does Palmar throw 'cheap shots' around. + Show Spoiler + On April 09 2013 05:31 Palmar wrote: also shame on the people who were going to back off artanis when gonzaw was shot for calling him scum. The above by itself doesnt make you scum. I concede "in a vacuum" it looks more like lazy town. However, we are not in a vacuum. We are in a game where the the thread sentiment has shifted many times; and with that opinion incorporated - these comments can be mostly ignored as noise. They are simply not memorable like a town Palmar can be; and *is* as town. They had zero impact on the game; and even the meek vote on VE comes after Geript lays the smack down. Further, whilst im not familiar with Palmar "meta" pre-2013; I havent seen a town palmar in modern times be antagonistic the way you are this game. In particular your response post VE death. I still remeber a trolling Palmar in Nomination who flipped a switch and became the towniest motherfucker in the game. And there even when trolling you werent so pessimistic/antagonistic like this game. Palmar is known to have no issues pressuring his fellow scummers, and can you seriously say Palmar tried to get VE lynched? Further (WIFOM alert), all this "foreplay/noise" does is tease town into certainly using a night action on VE - and hence death by NRA. ========================== Regardless that I think Restraining Order case on Vivax has merit: I wont bother with a Vivax spiel because the guy hasnt flipped; so its all association. ========================== Give it to me Palmar, why am i 'apparently' wrong, and bugs quote throws the above all down the toilet. | ||
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On April 09 2013 09:11 Vivax wrote: I'd probably think I'm scum myself in some other townies' shoes. Got all my reads wrong, was willing to lynch VE but not ahead of others, defended Artanis. Whyyyy Can I have thoughts on Yam about turn with Artanis? | ||
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Thats his second quick +1 on scum On April 08 2013 09:06 Palmar wrote: I still think VE is scum. Disengaged VE has almost always been scum. On April 08 2013 09:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I actually am starting to feel this might be the case. My previous read on VE was based on the activity level and contributions at the time I had read the thread. Now it's been uncharacteristically long since I've seen him in the thread and like Palmar says, VE is more likely to be scum when he isn't here as much. VE I'm gonna need some good quality reads out of you as well as some serious contribution or I'm gonna start thinking you don't care. And if you don't care then you're scum. | ||
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On April 09 2013 09:41 Palmar wrote: oh I did try to get VE lynched ^^ Pls grow the beard back Much sexier. I cant remember; do you prefer for a date: Sinani or Sn0_Man? | ||
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On April 09 2013 09:44 Palmar wrote: I'm fine with murdering them both So out of a 3 man scum team; you expect both to be there? | ||
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On April 09 2013 09:47 Vivax wrote: I see yamato being wrong with his preferences at the wrong time. Don't think scum was defending Artanis anyway, it was futile, I was already doing the job for them and they saw it didn't work. They'd rather do stuff a la MZ like agreeing a little with the case while trying to push other targets. I find it weird that yamato wants Shenlong lynched, a lot of scummy candidates tried to get him lynched. who da fuq is shenlong? You know the above sounds reasonable, but, artanis also sounded reasonable in the final stages. Im still figuring out whether Artanis was hard defending a town read (like BH to Good Karma in "the game") The RO case looks good though. Did you end up rebuttling it? Because i dont think i saw anything. | ||
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On April 09 2013 09:46 Palmar wrote: yeah and mz and vivax too. Pal-mar Im still "waiting", you know, for that special "thang" you promised. | ||
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On April 09 2013 09:51 Vivax wrote: I think I won't rebut it. I look like I look and I'll rather spend time talking about others. At least for not wanting to lynch Artanis I already posted my reasoning, as for VE he's been similarly inactive in a running game so I didn't put too much into that. I bought VE's case on RO. That's basically all I have to say to my defense. Im going to cut you some slack (sorry RO). Like I said to Geript (about Austin) if you are scum, I think it will become more clear through individual actions as the game progresses (as opposed to association tells). I like the above, its simple and completely reasonable. Regardless of your presence, you are playing more like 'The Game" than "Mafia LX"; which I will treat for the time being as a town tell. =============\ There was debate particuarly from Oats/Austin on whether town should fire night KP. What is your stance? If town KP is available, do you think it is worth using it, on the chance that a janitor is used? | ||
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On April 09 2013 09:57 Palmar wrote: already here dude, you're just not getting it. For whatever reason, you seem to be responding to me the most this game. Walk me through it quickly, so I can focus my energies on "real" targets then. | ||
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the context suggest tr0ll But the words suggest sincerity *ouch* Geript <3 your efforts went a long towards lynching VE shame on you Palmar. | ||
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On April 09 2013 10:02 Palmar wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 09 2013 09:58 Mocsta wrote: For whatever reason, you seem to be responding to me the most this game. Walk me through it quickly, so I can focus my energies on "real" targets then. Nah it's more funny this way. Also you're totally town so I'm fine with trolling you. I cant put my finger on it... but.. this makes me totally comfortable with you. Man i hate you so much palmar.. SO SO much.. why are you so god-damn charismatic. ===== OK, im pretty comfortable with MZ as tomorrows lynch; if town doesnt take care of him tonight. The guy has been the ultimate blender. | ||
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On April 09 2013 10:07 strongandbig wrote: Hey I said we should lunch VE too give meeeeee the town creeeeeeds Lol Night phase so borink How did taking VE out to lunch go? prob explains his absence. But yes, you confirmed town for me. | ||
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On April 09 2013 10:08 Palmar wrote: also mocsta, remember my analysis about why the nra and assassin were both scum? yeah bitch, that's what's up. lol.. that analysis was common sense; we already knew the answer to both of those. Your not getting brownie points from me on that one. Yeah bitch, that's what's up. | ||
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On April 09 2013 10:11 Palmar wrote: it was so simple. I proved nra and assman were both scum. so we kill nra and assman, and whaddayaknow? I was correct. man I should get a medal for this game. mvp. It was already proven. assman i dunno but assassin was proven scum. and we logically deduced NRA would be scum. Assman / Palmar, you said early game you thougth BM was scum. Updated thoughts. GOGOGOGO. | ||
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When reading the below: note, that this occurs before Caller threatens Artanis; hence, all the interactions are scum trying to prove innocence. (1) Mocsta RO was the person who introduced the concept of VT claiming. In more detail: it was claim what role you tried for, if you became a VT. - the idea was to determine scum power roles. With hindsight (i.e. assassin in the mix): Does this alter your perception of RO? Artanis[Xp] It's a meritious point. Finding out which roles are in the game will help scum figure out the game more easily and use the assassin role properly. An additional point supporting this hypothesis is that DI has claimed that scum would probably get a rolecop with the role, whereas I see many options available for them not to pick a rolecop with this setup. It would only really aid their assassin and it's likely that roles will get outed at some point. His conclusion is premature and potentially damning considering this and the fact that he was so willing to sheep people to avoid responsibility. Hes calling RO scum softly; but also talks about RO as if he is a 3rd person and not the center of the discussion. If anything the discourse is more focused on role speculation. Concludes with another weak sentmiment of "potentially damning" This is interesting because, he put VE as a weak scum read too. I think we have here a proper scum association slip. I am keen to hear others thoughts Context: Artanis knew he had to get on my good side. He also knew he wanted to escape lynch. It was pretty clear I was implicating RO as scum for the above; so he has tried to answer the question and make me fill in the gaps; whilst not actually explicitly making a stance on RO. Its pretty wishy-washy and can be backpedaled at any time. Contrast with below. MocstaI supported RO idea of forced VTs(At the time) Does this affect your opinion of me? Artanis[Xp]I would consider your support to be potentially scum motivated, but on its own it doesn't say much as it helps both town and scum to figure out the game. There have been other posts by you that I have found questionable, but your overall game has been town oriented to me. You seem to be willing to figure the game out and you could've easily wagoned on me and no one would've found it suspicious. Classic scum. He knows I have been pushing for his lynch, and was willing to cut him some slack. To be consistent with the RO tell above; he says its scummy - directly (unlike RO). And then proceeds to backpedal quickly and throw in a couple generic statements to justify the motive. Its interesting how different his approach is to discussing RO vs Myself. Its pretty hard to backpedal from what he said about me; but with RO he has left lots of options. (2) Mocsta You posted prior that you like a Sinani lynch. Is this a lurker "stab in the dark" lynch; or do you think there is enough content in the filter to warrant a justified scum lynch? Artanis[Xp] I've thought about it and I don't like a Sinani lynch at this moment. I'd prefer a vig shot rather than wasting time discussing him since he seems to not be willing to provide any information that would help to find out his alignment. When Yam asked him about Sinani, he repeated someone elses case. Now when I call it a lurker lynch; he says he prefers a vig shot. Regardless, he had no issue with Sinani being killed off - which makes Sinani confirmed town (unfortunately - cos the guy is useless) I am choosing not to believe that Artanis bussed Sinani to get Yam off his back. Further, town wasting KP on town, is a great way to extend mafia chances of winning; as we can only lynch one scum a day cycle. (3) Mocsta Is your Vivax town read founded purely on that you expect him to be disruptive; but he isnt? Hence, are you applying Vivax specific heuristics - is this the case? Are you familiar enough with Vivax to even consider having specific heuristics? Artanis[Xp] Yes. I've played with Vivax in British Empire Mini Mafia II in which he was abrasive and in your face all the time. I've played with him in Fruity as well in which he was the same way. This is something I'm sure he's done in scum games as well, and the fact that he's refraining from it leads me to believe he's town. I don't think he would change his gameplay in this way if he weren't.His meta has changed in a way that feels more townie than scummy to me. I feel like this explanation is in the same confident tone as scum BH expressing town GoodKarma innocence in "The Game". Ironically, no one believed BH. This is personal, but I am treating Vivax as town based on the above. Which also means I need to re-read RO association case on Vivax. (4) Mocsta Can you please reconfirm who your #1 scumspect is. You have identified several as scummy; but it isnt clear, who you would bank on. Artanis[Xp] Shevlocke is the person I want lynched this day. I believe I've made that clear. Like Sinani, Shevlocke becomes confirmed town.==================================== | ||
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On April 09 2013 10:55 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: + Show Spoiler + Let me illustrate something for you mocsta: You're the one holding paper sounding like an idiot. The rest of the thread is the guy sitting in back who actually can't believe that something that stupid was said. I'll be back tomorrow. My target is Restraining Order. Regardless of you being town or scum; you are a blender. Nothing stupid about that. Even your power in Personality2, had the potential to blend in and receive mafia checks. So go crawl back in ya hole; & see u tomorrow. | ||
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On April 09 2013 11:16 yamato77 wrote: Sinani is not confirmed town that analysis is terrible. Im not listening to you. You were the one so tunneled, you instantly jumped off Artanis when he agreed with you. And then had the tenacity to call me scum for questioning your motives. Your terrible at this game Yamato, and the quicker you admit it, the quicker you can improve. Artanis tried to get Sinani lynched or vig shot to save himself. Scum dont bus scum to save themselves Let me guess Your going to throw out that assassin is such a good role; scum were willing to sac scum to save the assassin? pfft. And even if i indulged you and said ok, sinani is not confirmed; there is no different with shevlocke; yet there you keep your mouth shut. Stop being tunneled yam. You're apparently better than this. | ||
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/sarcasm Well done. | ||
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On April 09 2013 11:42 yamato77 wrote: I guarantee scum bussed Artanis. Why is it so hard to believe he bussed as well? I dont rule it out. I just find the probability unlikely. Since JayBrundage bussed in?Desert? ppl talk about bussing as if its the go-to tactic. But it puts scum in a bad situation almost every time, and isnt worth the gain. Especially if not done convincingly. When im scum; i have no issue calling team mates scummy when im not under the pump. just like Artanis called VE scum early on. There is no follow through so its meaningless. If Sinani is scum then indeed, the pressure Artanis put on him was very high and meets the actual definition of a bus. I.e. sacrifice a teammate to live. Lets think about this though: Artanis was most very likely going to walk away from the lynch. I believe he had more votes than VE at end of cycle (or there was only 1-2 votes separation); and quite a few were really starting to consider him townie - publicly. However, when Artanis was throwing out names (e.g. Sinani) he still had almost every vote on him, and was trying to wriggle out of the noose. He threw a couple names down (Sinani/Shevlocke) but note, he never tried to follow through with his "weak scum read' VE. -- which with flip knowledge we know is directly avoiding a bus situation already. ==================== Consider: Artanis was well aware of thread sentiment. To save himself he figured he had a good chance of throwing the lynch to either: VE // Sinani // Shevlock. If he willing to bus Sinani.. why not bus VE too? He could have had votes split more evenly between the 4 (if you include artanis) candidates; in the hopes that a townie would swing the hammer to Shevlocke without bait. This didnt happen. Sinani was also higher in the draft order; and equally could have chosen NRA or as good a role for scum. So in short: Artanis didnt want to bus VE. He wanted the lynch on Sinani and then Shevlocke (where more votes were). Using that logic, i find it hard to believe he made an exception for VE; and then decided to bus Sinani. Sinani and Shevlocke are confirmed town. ====================== I think StrongandBig is pretty much confirmed for the way he wanted VE gone. Im not so certain with Geript anymore; hes still town to me, but perhaps im just too paranoid.. his taking down of VE just was so god damn fucking smooth. It crescendo'd just too easily. Its not often all the pieces fall together like that. If someone is DT, I would consider burning a check on him. Their call though. | ||
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On April 09 2013 11:50 yamato77 wrote: Moc, if you're town, I'm disappointed in you. That analysis is really bad. Your'e calling sinani "confirmed town" because you don't think a scum would call another scum mafia and then NOT agree to lynch him? Come on, dude. Read the post below. I think it expresses the correct context and sentiment at the time pretty well. I am open to all sorts of scum play (look at what i say about Geript at the bottom); so if you still disagree. Lets talk about this. Also, sounds to me we both agree that Shevlocke is turn regardless of filter. Can you give me thoughts on association with Restraining Order. | ||
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On April 09 2013 12:05 yamato77 wrote: I'm putting zero stock in your "association" cases. No, I won't talk about them. Its a direct comment from Artanis regarding somebody. You are the tunneled one. Nothing in your game has changed - unfortunately. | ||
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On April 09 2013 12:10 yamato77 wrote: + Show Spoiler + the pressure Artanis put on him was very high and meets the actual definition of a bus This is also patently false. He refused to vote him, even after calling him scum. That is not a full bus. Ok, what you said checks out. I got confused and thought he joined you. So yes, the point above is moot. I still think overall he is talking to a townie. Im happy to be proven wrong, but calling me dumb is not the way to do it. ======================================== + Show Spoiler [Artanis interactions] + On April 08 2013 17:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote: *About Sinani* Why is he trying to be safe? It looks like he's trying hard to not call VE scum despite everything he typed prior to it leading up to it pointing towards wanting to call him scum, then calls him null in the end. Very questionable, and I'm curious to hear what he has to say about S&B since he's returned to the thread, something Sinani's conveniently ignored despite posting after S&B returned. He's just not bothered to comment on it altogether. Yeah I don't like Sinani at all. I dont treat this as Artanis referencing a scummer. To me, this looks like he is painting someone red, and keeping his options open (even if he voted someone else). I think this, because he used the same authoritative tone with me when talking about "questionable" behaviour in an attempt to cast doubt. Artanis approach this game is to throw a couple suspicious points in, and then let others fill in the blanks. This approach has clearly been taken with Sinani, and was the same with myself. Now I know Im town; I dont really care what you think about me - as I am in no ways a lynch candidate. This is my basis for Sinani being town. ======================================== Compare to when he gives his read on VE. On April 08 2013 06:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: VisceraEyes
I formatted this to a list style for ease of read Everything in the scum read is statement or fact based. Hes filling in the gaps, and theres a different tone. Its confident and self-assured; but rather than trying to cast suspicion, its simply "straight to the point" comments. In essence, there is no inherent guilt when giving this read. I think this approach is very different to how he calls out townies such as myself - and by corollary Sinani. ======================================== One last double check. Lets compare to his #1 scum read: Shelvocke On April 08 2013 06:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Shelvocke
He has tried to write dot point style agian. But the points here are more about nitpicking bad play. Whereas with VE he was actually calling out scummy play. Note he has VE as a scum read; but thinks it is scummy that Shelvocke wagons on VE?? Nice contradiction that noone caught prior. This clearly demonstrates a person trying to create arguments for why someone is scummy. ======================================== TL;DR When talking to players such as much/Sinani, Artanis tries to create arguments for "questionable' behaviour, to let others take the lead and call them out as scummy. His Geript case is another example of this. When talking about players like VE, Artanis is able to directly call out play he doesnt like; and isnt trying to cast doubt with his comments. | ||
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Well done. Im the guy with the 14 page filter that has been trying to get everyone involved, and solve the game together. Yes I love being active as scum; but i definitely dont try to solve the game this actively either. Congratulations Yamato; everyone is laughing at you in the ObsQT. | ||
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On April 09 2013 12:20 yamato77 wrote: I was right...? No. you were right at one point in time. Then you retrenched. So you were wrong in the end. I moved from Artanis, because I thought NRA was a bigger risk and was worth lynching Day1. Thats being right. Ohh, let me guess. I'm scum and decided to bus both Artanis and VE. | ||
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On April 09 2013 00:56 austinmcc wrote: In all honesty, I'm considering VE. I still believe shelvocke to be mafia, and I like that lynch a lot. Much of the case on VE is that he hasn't been doing anything, which is NOT something that I expect from mafia-VE, honestly. However, it's not something that I expect from town-VE, especially if geript is telling the truth and SOMEONE up at the top is an NRA member (I agree with the sentiment that if someone at the top took that role, it's likely VE OR shelvocke (again, shelvocke is pretty clearly a smurf and people seem to be overlooking that)). Kei, In the above. He likes Artanis major scum read: Shelvocke & gives a 50/50 on VE. Considering his position on Artanis: Do you read anything into this? | ||
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On April 09 2013 12:59 yamato77 wrote: + Show Spoiler + You did this exact sort of thing in Personality where you tried to pis me off. I'm on to you. Ohh cos as scum, we arent emulating town play.. Good one scum hunter extraordinaire. Kei said it best anyways: and im willing to redact my opinion to his one. i.e. confirmed town is too strong a word. - perhaps this is where the difference comes from. Likely town is a better phrase. Thats my best compromise. | ||
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I am in the midst of some VCA. Did you know you did not vote? Your last action was: ##Unvote | ||
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He is never involved in the current thread sentiment with votes. i.e. he voted Kei and then OO. Im going to filter his justifications.. Could just be a "hipster" townie. Its a concern though because end of cycle; scum often like to vote scum, because they dont have fear of retaliation OMGUS. Its hard though, because due to early cycle we get situations like Keirathi lack of vote. ============ Yam will get a hard-on; because so is Sinani. That guy only voted StrongandBig; not only that, it was from early on in the cycle (before Gonzaw made his Artanis case) He came in to the thread and was obviously up to date; but then his vote doesnt reflect that. | ||
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plus ve voted him and iirc he didnt flinch anyways. My available time to post is officially dropping to one or two hours a day at night. For ever. So yeah... Sorry guys. | ||
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Deconduo I'm sure is scum His filter is 3 pages, so there is no excuse to not read it. Page 1 Look at his interactions with VE. its an out of place comment, especially compared to the other opinions he gives. Follows up by proclaiming artanis as town. His scumhunt of snowman is based on starting 1.1 And the kicker. Votes SnB because he was after VE. Page2 Weird interaction with ve again. And trays to sell himself as inexperienced scum hunter. Sets himself to walk away from artanis and is not sold by the case, yet doesn't try to argue any points. Kicker. Instead of comment on artanis. He participates in the scum alternative bandwagon. Shevlocke And he still wants Shevlocke and sinani dead after 2 Mafia die.. Even though they were the flipped scums pursuits. Sinani is questionable yes. But Shevlocke.... Page3 Realises the fuck up voting Shevlocke and retreats. But, where is him trying to find an alternative?? ===== His filter is filled with no accountability and odd interactions with flipped scum. Someone take this guy out tonight. | ||
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On April 07 2013 05:22 sinani206 wrote: VE are you going to take this game seriously or not? Because if you aren't, I have no qualms with lynching you. This comment is interesting, and is similar in tone to deconduo. Its almost as if he is trying to communicate with him. In personality2 we had a similar problem with ver who wasn't participating in scum qt. I know this is wifom. But in the artanis post he answers my last set of questions. He makes a general comment about scum team could be leaderless. This ties in with ve extremely low activity. I know the feeling. He ditched me in hydra mini. | ||
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On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote: I first want to say that this thread is spammed up to almost the point of unreadable... This is not how Town wins games. Secondly, out of the current lynch candidates, here are my opinions: VisceraEyes: I was leaning scum before and he hasn't really done anything to change my mind besides participating a little bit more. To be on the safe side, I'll say null with a red tinge. Keirathi: Null atm, nothing pointing him at being scum, but don't want to say definitely townie so soon. I just played in RTP with him and he seems to be playing rather similarly, so if I had to pick I'd say town. Restraining Order: Very difficult to read, so I'll wait to see more of him and on him. StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now. ##Vote: StrongandBig Taking his play it safe slip in conjunction with the post above. Yam is right. Sinani is certainly scum How nice him and deconduo vote snb who had sights on ve. Guys. Next 2scum is sinani and deconduo. | ||
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Its out of Oats Sno Meapak ObviousEyes And Wild cared, keirathi. I don't find kei scummy. I just find he has a really low presence I'm not used to seeing. But I only played 2 games with him. Oats us more suspect this game than usual, but, u can't see him bussing art for ve. There was no need to swap votes. Mz I just don't like his play in general, but I guess happy to leave him be. Others have a town read on him for whatever. Sno is too 50/50 for me. Personally I think he lying low due to misjudging size of game and being 1st pick. But time will tell. ==== This leaves oo as a guess pick. If I haphazard a guess. He was trying to be disruptive to the thread in the same way bH was in the game. Im not sure what was thread sentiment when he started spamming but I assume it was when gonzaw put out the artanis case. Or nearby. Kk. C ya guys. Won't be posting further unless I'm alive next cycle. | ||
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If u are pretending to not be involved. Thoughts on my 3 reads for scum Deconduo. Sinani. Obvious eyes Pl0x | ||
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On April 09 2013 18:02 Oatsmaster wrote: Dude maybe this is best for post gameIm pretty sure you are wrong. But thats cause you are Mocsta and not cause your reasoning is bad Cheers. But I'm really not digging your play style this game, I actually preferred oats from nomination. U were more aggressive, but talked less bullshit. | ||
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Did you read, my thoughts on deconduo.. or are u just saying town? | ||
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Im not referring specifically to an event at an old point of time... because if i was.. then yes, your post would be valid. im taking into account an entire 3 pages worth of filter. You read above doesnt do it. Let me requote for you. On April 09 2013 17:48 Mocsta wrote: Guys I'm on phone so can't do quotes I'm sorry this won't do it justice. Deconduo I'm sure is scum His filter is 3 pages, so there is no excuse to not read it. Page 1 Look at his interactions with VE. its an out of place comment, especially compared to the other opinions he gives. Follows up by proclaiming artanis as town. His scumhunt of snowman is based on starting 1.1 And the kicker. Votes SnB because he was after VE. Page2 Weird interaction with ve again. And trays to sell himself as inexperienced scum hunter. Sets himself to walk away from artanis and is not sold by the case, yet doesn't try to argue any points. Kicker. Instead of comment on artanis. He participates in the scum alternative bandwagon. Shevlocke And he still wants Shevlocke and sinani dead after 2 Mafia die.. Even though they were the flipped scums pursuits. Sinani is questionable yes. But Shevlocke.... Page3 Realises the fuck up voting Shevlocke and retreats. But, where is him trying to find an alternative?? ===== His filter is filled with no accountability and odd interactions with flipped scum. Someone take this guy out tonight. | ||
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On April 09 2013 19:24 Palmar wrote: don't tell me how to scumhunt bitch. clean shaven man I haven't seen before. Im your best town read. And if you want to be like that. Don't tell me how to scumhunt bitch; or ima pop a cap in yo ass. ===== Anyways, you can't refute what I said, and the more you try; the more im gonna have to get all business with you. Fact: Your read was based on the thread sentiment at the time (apparently) It needs to be updated; and that is what I did. deconduo is scum clean shaven man. | ||
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On April 09 2013 21:22 Palmar wrote: scum, not reading thread doesn't know caller is showtime WTF is this shit Caller; or whoever initiated the double lynch, can ONLY be "Vote-Rigger" You are a vote rigger! You have two oneshot powers. The first is you can, once only, force a double lynch at any time during the voting (the two leading candidates at the end of the day are lynched). The second is that you may rig the votes as you see fit. Surprise! You may only use one power per day. Palmar, I hope scum have an RB tonight; cos your dead. | ||
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you're | ||
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On April 09 2013 21:56 Restraining Order wrote: Shoot Mocsta too. pls. I can't take it anymore. Dick fuck On April 07 2013 03:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Day 1 has begun! [B]On April 09 2013 04:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Night 1 thats 49 hrs - which is end of cycle dip shit. fuck off with your wrong accusations. I cant take it anymore. Go lynch yourself. | ||
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On April 09 2013 21:57 Palmar wrote: I know Oats is awful at mafia, but just how awful is he? On par with you. So prety easy to catch. | ||
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indulge clean shaven man. P.S. u aint talking to me like im your best town read.. Funny that. | ||
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*clap clap* DI Its vote-rigger. & proven by timestamps. Keep on pretending to contribute. | ||
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On April 09 2013 22:06 Palmar wrote: Thinking you're town and thinking you're a dumbass are two different things. Still waiting for that date night invite. | ||
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On April 09 2013 23:30 Sn0_Man wrote: + Show Spoiler + Mocsta, You are wrong. The way the votecount was written at the end of Day 1 (not geripts, but the host one) as well as the fact that the host states in the Day 1 post when the day ends is a pretty clear indication that showtime was used. On top of that, no vote-rigger in their right mind is going to submit a double-lynch until he knows who is going to be lynched by it. And he didn't know because deadline was in 6 hours or whatever. The extra lynch was a Emperor submission, as far as we know. Not the Emperor's "double lynch" but the emperor's "free lynch". Yeah k, watevs you're prob right. The OP says 9pm EST (i.e. wasnt time converted), which i got no idea what it is. All i did was check the day1/night 1 time stamps, and it was 49hrs. as far as i knew, it was a normal lynch deadline. Im going to bed anyways. ====================== Final post before Night ends. Scum 1 - Deconduo Scum 2 - Sinani Scum 3 - Palmar Deconduo http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=2060&topic_id=403766 + Show Spoiler + On April 09 2013 17:48 Mocsta wrote: Guys I'm on phone so can't do quotes I'm sorry this won't do it justice. Deconduo I'm sure is scum His filter is 3 pages, so there is no excuse to not read it. Page 1 Look at his interactions with VE. its an out of place comment, especially compared to the other opinions he gives. Follows up by proclaiming artanis as town. His scumhunt of snowman is based on starting 1.1 And the kicker. Votes SnB because he was after VE. Page2 Weird interaction with ve again. And trays to sell himself as inexperienced scum hunter. Sets himself to walk away from artanis and is not sold by the case, yet doesn't try to argue any points. Kicker. Instead of comment on artanis. He participates in the scum alternative bandwagon. Shevlocke And he still wants Shevlocke and sinani dead after 2 Mafia die.. Even though they were the flipped scums pursuits. Sinani is questionable yes. But Shevlocke.... Page3 Realises the fuck up voting Shevlocke and retreats. But, where is him trying to find an alternative?? ===== His filter is filled with no accountability and odd interactions with flipped scum. Someone take this guy out tonight. Sinani http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=2062&topic_id=403766 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=2063&topic_id=403766 + Show Spoiler + On April 09 2013 17:57 Mocsta wrote: This comment is interesting, and is similar in tone to deconduo. Its almost as if he is trying to communicate with him. In personality2 we had a similar problem with ver who wasn't participating in scum qt. I know this is wifom. But in the artanis post he answers my last set of questions. He makes a general comment about scum team could be leaderless. This ties in with ve extremely low activity. I know the feeling. He ditched me in hydra mini. On April 09 2013 18:00 Mocsta wrote: Taking his play it safe slip in conjunction with the post above. Yam is right. Sinani is certainly scum How nice him and deconduo vote snb who had sights on ve. Guys. Next 2scum is sinani and deconduo. Palmar Has been trolling in a non-jovial way all game Has clearly not been putting in any effort to scum hunt Is over exaggerating his contributions Is unwilling to comment seriously on Deconduo blah blah blah And on that note, I am going to bed. | ||
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Who do *you* think is scum I don't think I seen a useful post from you since commenting on ve. | ||
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Guess u are another not reading my posts. I like sharrant. I think he's just a hipster townie. I think his thought process has been relatively clear whether I agree or not. I listed oo as wildcard scum. His posts last night make him look worse I admit. But I'm not digging Palmar so subbed oo for Palmar. I'm disappointed no one has responded about deconduo And his response was lack lustre. Its good to know he is up to date enough to comment in points against him, but can't contribute to ongoing thread discussion at all, | ||
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On April 10 2013 08:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: Mocsta: Palmar is almost definitely town. Thats a strong statement full of certainty. Want to back it up? Im not reading ego in detail. But the couple times i browsed it. He seemed more interactive with there than here. | ||
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On April 10 2013 10:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Whoops. I actually meant Mocsta. Got confused about your names. :D Thnx but i assume i die unless medic'd maybe thats being up myself. Wjo knows deadline soon i think | ||
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On April 10 2013 10:25 yamato77 wrote: If I die, kill Mocsta tomorrow. If I don't, I will kill him tomorrow. Everyone is still laughing at u in the obsqt learn to play the game. Just cos u dont like what someone does. Doesnt make them scum. But whatevs. U want to look stupid again like u did with kurumi. Be my guest | ||
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and u have no follow up on a read other than just trust me than u say my responses are scummy. When in games u r town. U refuse to answer.cases against u citing im town. So its wrong get off ya high horse | ||
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Its awesome how u used to call me the towniest guy in this game and now u have regressed to wanting to lynch me At least u revealing ya true colours | ||
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he prob assumed it wouldnt take effect shame with plmar i guess assume 2 scum are alive. But palmar was my weakest read | ||
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so not sure if he referring to double lynch with my reds¿ I would vote sinani and oo | ||
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Cn someone fill me in? I though 24hrs ago. Many didnt like sinani. And austin was barely spoken about. Now austin is under lots of suspicion and ppl aeem to be ignoring sinani? What happened? I dont understand why caller is dead either. Why rayn over sno? Thats weird too | ||
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be carful with bm he might be trying o bait out he lie detector | ||
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On April 10 2013 12:30 Bill Murray wrote: Considering mafia killed Palmar, and Deconduo, Caller was scum bro I killed deconduo and claimed it before day post... | ||
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y r u a atrong advocate of a town palmr. Let alone emperor palmar? | ||
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did u get anything from rayn? Ididnt | ||
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On April 10 2013 13:07 geript wrote: No claimed attack on him makes him likely a NK. That makes him town. As for emperor, his refusal to regard me as leading to VE's death is a minor hint that he was emperor. Plus this quote: I think he picked up on my suspicion and role (or lack thereof) early due to my posts around the initial D1 phase stuff. Yeah i figured same with emp fits in with him saying how much he contributed the lack of claim. Could be not eveyone has showed their face though? History shows with personality2. Mz is prob town. All the guys who fired nukes recklessly like new toys were.town shame shevlocke shot him. Thats pretty questionable. The bm claim on caller is odd. I dunno if he has the balls to do this as.scum. Anyone that knows him. I woild appreciate feedback on that. So assuming palmar was.not a bodyguatd then scum kp is pretty limited. I suggest town hold off any more shooting based on scum low kp. | ||
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On April 10 2013 13:08 sinani206 wrote: If you don't explain why, no one else will believe you... You haven't exactly been the MOST green this game. Lol neither have u u do realise day1 Ur vote remained on snb the whole cycle yet u could chip in foe gonzaw to shoot bm... And u ignored everythidng.with artanis and vis.eye | ||
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On April 10 2013 13:08 sinani206 wrote: If you don't explain why, no one else will believe you... You haven't exactly been the MOST green this game. Lol neither have u u do realise day1 Ur vote remained on snb the whole cycle yet u could chip in foe gonzaw to shoot bm... And u ignored everythidng.with artanis and vis.eye | ||
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On April 10 2013 13:22 Bill Murray wrote: MOCSTA, why are you voting ObviousOne? He was on the Artanis wagon. Are you proposing that he bussed him? I gave justification before night ended around page 103 | ||
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On April 10 2013 13:33 Oatsmaster wrote: MOCSTA. Write you. not u. PLEASE. Its way more readable. Discussion on sn0 please I cant i only have phone access at work now hence why i said my activiy will be reduced i cant make cases etc on phone sorry. U is much easier than you | ||
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On April 10 2013 14:26 Bill Murray wrote: It was actually more a reaction test. I'm glad you picked up on it. A townie brownie for you, sir~ Ooo Aye geddit ewe.want to bee like that man of the showtime whutz izz name. Thats roight. Caller. Ewe know. Thee one who spoke in the funnee axe.cent and laid dem traps about. | ||
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u know i want a lead a lynch on u. do u think u r playing diferent to hydra? if so. Y | ||
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so swap oo or sinani for mz? | ||
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i like your idea.decon feign janitor to hide that a live scum is vt only by using jan power very feasible. As the move to claim jan is weird in itself i would bet a left nut this is the real story | ||
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as i asked before if we voting mz to clear all doubt with double lynch do we swap out oo or sinani? | ||
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On April 10 2013 16:21 Bill Murray wrote: I don't want to lynch Sn0_Man, because I feel like he is just being an idiot. I mean, who votes someone that just unvoted them? Is he scared of my questioning? I see he has been attacking me to other people, but waiting to vote me when I unvote him? Voting someone who has no votes = not bandwagoning either, and that looks good on him... but if he's going to try to get someone with town KP lynched that is anti-town, and needs to get lynched in the but, so I say keep Meapak alive, lynch sinani and sno_man Lol so at start u dont want ro lynch sno at end u do. Make up ya mind bm. Im considering double lynch is good for 1 firm scum. And 1 uunreadable. rBM ur play to me is unreadable... | ||
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no response so bringing it back to the fore. Noone has claimed rayn kill. Why rayn over sno? Afterall jon snow must die!! But seriously if rayn was scum killed. He had no prescence. So i surmise it was an awesome role snipe attempt. why leave sno.. And an answer. Becauae someone stupid will come up with this theory to justify sno lynch isnt good.enough. I played with town sno before. And he doesnt feel the.same to me. I couldnt read.him before due to low activity but now he has some posts. Different story. He is mainly focused on irrelevant matters. Hs trying to look like scum hunting. But isnt. Thoughts? | ||
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flavour is unreliable i checked my pm says i am a crime boss in the show. Also says i win with town | ||
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i think u giving too much newbie cred check out the scum.qt in newbie 38 he replaced in and was very excited to roll scum in the newbies he tried to be a leadwr. Sthe heuristics u taking dont really apply to ppl like that. | ||
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On April 10 2013 17:10 yamato77 wrote: The main dude is a crime boss Those people I highlighted were his enemies in the show. I'm just saying, it's something to go on about their alignment when we have almost nothing. Hmm read.wiki says im an enemy of jimmy still. Dunno how much clout i wanr to.give.i thought flavour is meant to be just flavour | ||
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that looks good but last quote sharrant is trying to get sinani lynched do u prefer sharrant or sinani cos they cant be both scum way too much bussing going on then | ||
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Otherwise we filling in the gaps with what we want to believe | ||
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But in op says u get bonus power if role picked aligns with boardwalk character `style`. Explains why artanis was a gf + assassin. Assuming his character was an assassin in the show | ||
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On April 10 2013 21:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah sinani and Vivax it is. I want to lynch snoman too. Shevlocke maybe cause he LIED. I hate liers. Except when I do it, then its alright. Can you walk me through why Sn0_Man. I thought Keirathi argument for keep Sn0 was pretty sound. | ||
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I think we can all benefit by steering conversation more towards critical thought, and fleshed out thoughts. Instead of just saying "Person X" is scum. Let us create debate; detail the scum mindset, and justify the vote. If someone builds a case, and you disagree. Let us create debate; challenge the points, and work together to come to a well-reasoned conclusion For example, ===================== Oatsmaster + Show Spoiler [Re:Sn0_Man] + ]Im still not sure why you think he is scum. On April 10 2013 21:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Was that the 'he doesnt care what he posts argument? the too scummy too be scum argument?' Cause that is not so good. Its like ~~~ not ^^^ Yes, I am referring to the Keirathi "he doesnt care what he posts" argument. After a second review, I thought his points were of merit and showed a town confidence. Can you walk me through what you disagree with. ===================== BillMurray + Show Spoiler [Re:Sinani] + On April 10 2013 22:16 Bill Murray wrote: sinani has been pressuring people, and regardless if one of them is me, made a good case on strongandbig... he hasn't been useless this game, like sn0_man, sharrant, obviousone, just to name a few off the top of my head Do you think SnB is scum? If not, why do you think the case is "good"? Regardless of whether the case is good or bad though; it was made prior to the Artanis case (i.e. very early game Day 1). Futher, Sinani never updated his vote from that pivotal moment in the game. Do you truly believe that SnB case was good enough to warrant leaving the vote their for an entire cycle? Please keep in mind, Sinani was up to date with the thread enough, to request Gonzaw use his day-vig to shoot "BillMurray". ===================== Sharrant + Show Spoiler [Re:Keirathi] + Keirathi Case I am very curious to hear your response to the issues regarding the assassin claim knowledge + vested interest in ascertaining blue roles. | ||
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On April 10 2013 23:06 Oatsmaster wrote: Is this serious?+ Show Spoiler + On April 10 2013 22:44 Mocsta wrote: Hi Everyone. I think we can all benefit by steering conversation more towards critical thought, and fleshed out thoughts. Instead of just saying "Person X" is scum. Let us create debate; detail the scum mindset, and justify the vote. If someone builds a case, and you disagree. Let us create debate; challenge the points, and work together to come to a well-reasoned conclusion For example, ===================== Oatsmaster + Show Spoiler [Re:Sn0_Man] + ]Im still not sure why you think he is scum. On April 10 2013 21:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Was that the 'he doesnt care what he posts argument? the too scummy too be scum argument?' Cause that is not so good. Its like ~~~ not ^^^ Yes, I am referring to the Keirathi "he doesnt care what he posts" argument. After a second review, I thought his points were of merit and showed a town confidence. Can you walk me through what you disagree with. ===================== BillMurray + Show Spoiler [Re:Sinani] + On April 10 2013 22:16 Bill Murray wrote: sinani has been pressuring people, and regardless if one of them is me, made a good case on strongandbig... he hasn't been useless this game, like sn0_man, sharrant, obviousone, just to name a few off the top of my head Do you think SnB is scum? If not, why do you think the case is "good"? Regardless of whether the case is good or bad though; it was made prior to the Artanis case (i.e. very early game Day 1). Futher, Sinani never updated his vote from that pivotal moment in the game. Do you truly believe that SnB case was good enough to warrant leaving the vote their for an entire cycle? Please keep in mind, Sinani was up to date with the thread enough, to request Gonzaw use his day-vig to shoot "BillMurray". ===================== Sharrant + Show Spoiler [Re:Keirathi] + Keirathi Case I am very curious to hear your response to the issues regarding the assassin claim knowledge + vested interest in ascertaining blue roles. Why are you so helpful in asking questions, but not helpful in making cases? Im the one who shot Deconduo... and I have been making cases all game. Please answer the questions I laid out. They are quite straight forward. | ||
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On April 10 2013 23:15 austinmcc wrote: Gonna get a little work done. Those posts were just some basic setup/thread thoughts, but there's no scumhunting from me yet today and my best suspect from the end of yesterday is off the table for me. Gonna clear my head for a few hours and be productive, then come back and be more active. Please think about whether mass claiming (probably from the bottom up, in an orderly manner, so as to make it more risky to fakeclaim for scum) makes sense to you and whether there are downsides that I'm not seeing. Sorry Austin. Im not against "hard to reads" claiming. Or if the information is useful (e.g. Kei -> checked Austin) But I am not planning to claim. I think my actions should make me probably town for most, if not all. Hence: My role *may* or *may not* have more to offer. I prefer to keep scum on their toes with that. | ||
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On April 10 2013 23:10 Bill Murray wrote: yes I think SnB is scum So, it is natural to expect; that you believe SnB tried to save Artanis by bussing VE? & You also think that early game: Deconduo decided to bus StrongandBig by voting him? | ||
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On April 10 2013 23:25 Oatsmaster wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2013 23:19 Mocsta wrote: Is this serious? Im the one who shot Deconduo... and I have been making cases all game. Please answer the questions I laid out. They are quite straight forward. I absolutely knew that you would answer this way. Taking the easy way out. Who the fuck cares even if you singlehandly caught all the scum but one, IF you dont know who that one is and you keep asking questions to other people IN ORDER to get a read on the PEOPLE THEY are making cases on. Terrible. Who is scum Mocsta? Firstly, Why are you avoiding answering my question? This will now be the third request: Oatsmaster Regarding: Sn0_Man Im still not sure why you think he is scum. Yes, I am referring to the Keirathi "he doesnt care what he posts" argument. After a second review, I thought his points were of merit and showed a town confidence. Can you walk me through what you disagree with. ================ Secondly, On April 10 2013 23:25 Oatsmaster wrote: Who the fuck cares even if you singlehandly caught all the scum but one, IF you dont know who that one is and you keep asking questions to other people IN ORDER to get a read on the PEOPLE THEY are making cases on. Im asking you questions to get a read on you. I think your stance on Sn0 is fallacious. Im trying to ascertain whether genuine or lazy. If lazy, whether due to being scum. ================ To address your question: Who do I think is scum? On April 10 2013 11:18 Mocsta wrote: Day2 ##VOTE:SINANI On April 10 2013 11:33 Mocsta wrote: Day 2 2nd lynch ##vote:obviousone I am seriously giving thought you swapping you for Obvious. This is not the first time I have requested you expound on a stance you have given in the thread. Yet each time, asking you for more information is like pulling teeth. Town oats is normally much more confidence to put it out there. | ||
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On April 10 2013 23:27 austinmcc wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2013 23:23 Mocsta wrote: Sorry Austin. Im not against "hard to reads" claiming. Or if the information is useful (e.g. Kei -> checked Austin) But I am not planning to claim. I think my actions should make me probably town for most, if not all. Hence: My role *may* or *may not* have more to offer. I prefer to keep scum on their toes with that. This is true of the VAST majority of roles. Most of the benefit to claiming is to force claims/fake claims early, to be able to potentially catch people in that way, to potentially be able to confirm certain players based on roles and whatnot, and also to coordinate actions. At this point it's a very large group against a small one, checking different targets, protecting valuable targets, etc., has some value. Well, according to BC. Your dead in 36hr. You might as well claim? | ||
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On April 10 2013 23:33 Sn0_Man wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2013 23:23 Mocsta wrote: Sorry Austin. Im not against "hard to reads" claiming. Or if the information is useful (e.g. Kei -> checked Austin) But I am not planning to claim. I think my actions should make me probably town for most, if not all. Hence: My role *may* or *may not* have more to offer. I prefer to keep scum on their toes with that. I'd say that everybody claiming probably just makes you safer from mafia (although I guess keeping them afraid of a spent role is helpful?). However, nobody can force you to claim I guess... (unless there is an extractor, which I kind of wonder given RO's funny claim yesterday shortly after gonzaw's death). Anyway, BM has now basically claimed justice vigi. I find it pretty hard to believe that he justice-vigged Caller and is still alive, but it might not interact the way I think. If the Justice Vigilante shoots a TOWN player who is already the subject of other KP, does the Justice Vigilante live? The OP seems to indicate that said justice vigi would die if he ever aimed his gun at a townie regardless of other interactions, but I'm not sure. also Do roleblocked people recieve notifications? Im really struggling to keep up with all the role claim logic (as you could tell with the showtime decacle) Do you think BM is Justice Vig, because he was sure Caller was scum & he shot him? Also, not sure if you will get host answers. He never replied to my question about janitor & I PM too. I guess if you beleive palmar was emperor, and we got double lynch, it makes sense deconduo coudl be janitor & still managed to get off power before death. (my question to host was because, i thought dec mighta pretended to be janitor, so we dont know that 1 remaining scum has exhausted poewr) | ||
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On April 10 2013 23:40 Sharrant wrote: Interesting question. But it also relies on BM being targeted by Role Reverser.If the role reverser were used on a justice vigi when they shot a mafia member, what would be the end result? Would both/either player live through the shot? Based on thread sentiment, I find that highly unlikely. I look forward to your detailed response - I presume in relation to Keirathi case. | ||
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On April 10 2013 23:42 austinmcc wrote: OK, fair point. I will play along and role claim when it is my turn.I'm going to. But in general, because of the way picking works and what I remember about other PYP games, you want claiming to be from the bottom up. That way any player who wants to try and fakeclaim takes a big risk - if player 20 claims role x and player 10 claims role x, one is lying. You can't be SAFE fake claiming, because someone may actually have that role above you. Adding more risk to fake claiming, forcing more truth = good. If I claim my role right now, scum know not to fakeclaim that role if they're below me. So yeah, you'll get a claim from me today, either on its own or as part of an overall scheme, but if we're going to massclaim, doing so in an organized manner is best. | ||
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Note: I am still waiting for you to reply to me. | ||
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On April 10 2013 23:55 Oatsmaster wrote: I changed my mind. I LIKE SNOMAN. K. Um so yeah Vivax and sinani. ##Unvote: ObviousOne ##Vote: Oatsmaster | ||
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On April 10 2013 23:58 Oatsmaster wrote: + Show Spoiler + I KNEW IT so predictable mocsta. So now its your turn to write a case right? Or am I wrong? Nope. Don't need to. | ||
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On April 11 2013 00:03 Oatsmaster wrote: This response is exactly why my vote is justified.+ Show Spoiler + Right, so I need to justify my scumread, but you dont. Cool beans bro, cool beans. Your credibility gone. just like *poof* Night guys. | ||
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On April 11 2013 00:08 Oatsmaster wrote: You can stop with the drama-queen antics.+ Show Spoiler + On April 11 2013 00:05 Mocsta wrote: This response is exactly why my vote is justified. Night guys. Your opinion isnt anyone elses the last time I checked. Im pretty sure you arent the only one playing the game. you need to CONVINCE people. Right? Am I doing this 'pressuring' right Mocsta? Trying to copy you, not sure if its working. I dont need a case. Im not trying to convince you, that you are scum. And until ppl question my vote, I have no need to produce a case. It is that simple. ============= I am still waiting for a response to: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=123#2456 which i asked for again here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=124#2469 & we are still waiting for you to claim. Esp now you are "cool beans" with Sn0 | ||
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On April 11 2013 00:22 Oatsmaster wrote: How convenient.+ Show Spoiler + Um I 180ed? I think he is town now mocsta? Are you reading my posts? I dont want to claim, I dont see the point at all honestly. What caused you to 180. This reminds me of Mafia LIX, and your 180 on Marv. In one post, you werent from top scum read to uber town. | ||
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On April 11 2013 00:23 Restraining Order wrote: Oats is town and you don't need a claim to see that. Almost as townie as M_Z And that is meant to convince me to rescind my vote? This is exactly the type of post I was talking about at the start of this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=123#2456 | ||
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On April 11 2013 00:25 Oatsmaster wrote: Good to know you are showing some Chutzpah, finally.+ Show Spoiler + On April 11 2013 00:23 Mocsta wrote: How convenient. What caused you to 180. This reminds me of Mafia LIX, and your 180 on Marv. In one post, you werent from top scum read to uber town. I read his filter. In LIX, I was unhappy with his vote, but he was town. I said NOTHING about him being scum. Go back and read that game. Dont shoot your mouth off without evidence. Shame it is this lively and authoritative only comes out on matters trivial to the game... Yet, when pressed on matters that are relevant to finding scum. Oats is *always* silent and absent. The vote is justified and remains. Now im going to bed. Night | ||
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On April 11 2013 00:37 austinmcc wrote: Austin; Town need accountability.+ Show Spoiler + oats, and anyone else, should be 180ing on sno because he's town. Whether you trust me or not on that point, I'm getting nuked and going to die, so at the very least it doesn't matter what the heck you think about sno. You'll see me flip, you'll see what I know, and then you can accuse sn0 of being scum or committing genocide or being the guy who made the decision for pluto to not be a planet anymore, but do so ON D3. Until then, drop sn0, look elsewhere, but do so productively. I think my new plan for big games is to stop trying to have scumreads because this is two games in a row I've just been bass-ackward, and start cat herding. Otherwise, anybody can come in, cite this post, and 180 on Sn0 - including scum. Maybe that is good enough for a townie with an expiry date on his head; but it is certainly not good enough for me. If you want to 180 on Sn0, it should be because a "new variable" entered the equation. I think it is reasonable to share that "new variable" =========== Are you going to tell me this exchange has a logical flow that leads to a 180? On April 10 2013 21:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah sinani and Vivax it is. I want to lynch snoman too. Shevlocke maybe cause he LIED. I hate liers. Except when I do it, then its alright. On April 10 2013 21:30 Mocsta wrote: Can you walk me through why Sn0_Man. I thought Keirathi argument for keep Sn0 was pretty sound. On April 10 2013 21:36 Oatsmaster wrote:Was that the 'he doesnt care what he posts argument? the too scummy too be scum argument?' Cause that is not so good. Its like ~~~ not ^^^ On April 10 2013 23:49 Sn0_Man wrote: BM is Justice Vig because he has essentially outright claimed it in thread a billion times but is somehow afraid of actually saying the words (hes asleep now so can't get any more from him ATM). I expect all night actions occur even if the perpetrator dies that night as well (as in the case of deconduo/janitor I think). In the case of a full-claim (which I'm not convinced is the right choice but I wouldn't mind seeing it at least begin) Yamato, Oats and Vivax are the first up (going with Justice vig BM for now, since he's asleep). If yamato and oats are around they can probably begin safely. I don't really care about yam but Oats I'd really like to see his claim On April 10 2013 23:55 Oatsmaster wrote: I changed my mind. I LIKE SNOMAN. K. Um so yeah Vivax and sinani. Now if you think I am a hypocrite for not building a case. Fine, it was out of spite; because Oats has blatantly ignored me several times when asking about Sn0. In the process of ignoring me; he then 180s Sn0 based on the exchange above. Is it really just me who thinks this is odd behaviour? Is it really me that thinks Oats all game has tried to stifle discussion? Is it really just me that has noticed Oats has barely substantiated any position he has taken all game? How many times have I asked him to detail why Vivax is scum. Yet this has been his read now for ~ 72hrs. How many times have I asked him to detail why Sn0 is scum. Yet he ignores it, and then 180s. The above is my case. On April 10 2013 23:56 Mocsta wrote: ##Vote: Oatsmaster | ||
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On April 11 2013 00:52 Oatsmaster wrote: I read his filter. Did I not explain this? Like thats the new info that I apparently need to 180. So what you are saying is. You had a scum read, you wanted to push to the thread. And you never read his filter.... and you are town because? | ||
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On April 11 2013 00:51 Sharrant wrote: You got tunnel vision or something+ Show Spoiler + On April 10 2013 17:37 Keirathi wrote: Also, as an aside: Pretty sure Sharrant is scum. Look at these posts: In the pre-game. I think he was actually trying here to do what he claimed was happening with me. I think he was trying to draw attention away from VE and give VE and out by pushing sentiment back towards me. Deflecting away from Artanis. Chainsaw Artanis. But I think this is the kicker: This was almost immediately after the gonzaw shot. At the time, Mocsta and I (and maybe a few others), were floundering a bit about what role killed gonzaw. In strolls Sharrant being 100% sure it was an assassin kill (and remember, he's been hard defending the actual assassin). Keep reading a bit after that and see how the rest of the conversation went down. He tried to flip it to make Mocsta scummy, and he seemed to have put an extraordinary amount of thought into gonzaw being Jack before he flipped for a "townie". So yea, Sharrant is scum. And with that, I sleeps. G'nite! Hi, Keirathi. If VE was my scum buddy, do you think he would've responded to my post? Because he never did. The reason I brought it up to him is twofold: pretty much absolutely nobody read my case on you, or if they did, nobody commented on it, and the conversation of the thread shifted immediately away from you. And I don't know how to read VE, like I said, I thought I made a slam dunk case about him last game, but he was town. As you can read in that post, I did not expect both of you to be scum, so I wanted his opinion on you, and to help foster some discussion because his response to the game was to stick his head in the sand. After he didn't respond I pretty much gave up on him because there was more important stuff going on in the thread, and he would either start playing, or he would likely get shot. Why did I defend Artanis? Because he read townie to me and he was a serious lynch candidate. He read townie to me not just for the reasons I gave in that post you quoted, but because he was the only person who seemed to be reading and responding to my posts. He genuinely seemed to be involved in the game, and read as if he was in a similar position to me in the early game: A townie that seems to oft be ignored by the thread unless something sparks particular interest from the thread. As for the "chainsaw defense" thing, that's particularly scummy for you. I was asked by another player to read Obvious One's filter, and comment on it. So that's what I did. If you had read the thread and not cherry picked the quote you would know that. Now if you have something that you would like to dispute with the case, talk to me about it. Yep, I was pretty much 100% sure, but not as you stated 100% sure. There's a difference. Again you go with your "extraordinary" amount of thought. He made it about as obvious as BM made his own role at the start of today. You could glance at his posts and tell what he was, if you think the fact that I'm trying to determine other people's selections is scummy, that's fine. I do it because I want to know as much as I possibly can. I'm going to give your filter a re-read, and read some of your past games later. I want to know if you cherry pick as both alignments. Mocsta How do you reconcile this On April 10 2013 22:44 Mocsta wrote: Hi Everyone. I think we can all benefit by steering conversation more towards critical thought, and fleshed out thoughts. Instead of just saying "Person X" is scum. Let us create debate; detail the scum mindset, and justify the vote. If someone builds a case, and you disagree. Let us create debate; challenge the points, and work together to come to a well-reasoned conclusion For example, ===================== Oatsmaster + Show Spoiler [Re:Sn0_Man] + ]Im still not sure why you think he is scum. On April 10 2013 21:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Was that the 'he doesnt care what he posts argument? the too scummy too be scum argument?' Cause that is not so good. Its like ~~~ not ^^^ Yes, I am referring to the Keirathi "he doesnt care what he posts" argument. After a second review, I thought his points were of merit and showed a town confidence. Can you walk me through what you disagree with. ===================== BillMurray + Show Spoiler [Re:Sinani] + On April 10 2013 22:16 Bill Murray wrote: sinani has been pressuring people, and regardless if one of them is me, made a good case on strongandbig... he hasn't been useless this game, like sn0_man, sharrant, obviousone, just to name a few off the top of my head Do you think SnB is scum? If not, why do you think the case is "good"? Regardless of whether the case is good or bad though; it was made prior to the Artanis case (i.e. very early game Day 1). Futher, Sinani never updated his vote from that pivotal moment in the game. Do you truly believe that SnB case was good enough to warrant leaving the vote their for an entire cycle? Please keep in mind, Sinani was up to date with the thread enough, to request Gonzaw use his day-vig to shoot "BillMurray". ===================== Sharrant + Show Spoiler [Re:Keirathi] + Keirathi Case I am very curious to hear your response to the issues regarding the assassin claim knowledge + vested interest in ascertaining blue roles. With this On April 11 2013 00:05 Mocsta wrote: This response is exactly why my vote is justified. Night guys. That last chain quote is you doing exactly the opposite of what you proposed to the thread. Why? What does town gain from what you posted. Your statement before implies you believe that to be anti-town. Yet you made not one, but several almost contentless posts refusing to do anything you mentioned before: You did not create debate. You did not detail the scum mindset. You did not justify your vote. The rest will come in a later post, but I figured if I'm taking a lunch break I may as well eat, and then work on a second post instead of just having this one take a few hours. You want attempts to build debate. Try this. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=123#2456 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=124#2463 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=124#2469 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=125#2481 That is 4 attempts to elicit a response from Oats. (over the same question) He does not reciprocate. Each and every time. My actions were founded. This is the 2nd time in the game, you have tried to severely misconstrue my intentions. | ||
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On April 11 2013 01:00 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah you still do.Wait so when I change my read, I still need to answer to outdated questions? Maybe next time you need to ask the question less times. 4 times in 2 pages is TOO MUCH. Its called: accountability. | ||
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##Lynch: Restraining Order Night Guys. | ||
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On April 11 2013 01:07 Sn0_Man wrote: So rayn was kingmaker? And mocsta lied at the beginning of the day about hearing from him? Thats wat it sounds like. Research and role speculation time. No. I lied about the lynch But. it waas curious that RO response came across to me, as if he knew he wasnt dying. Odd? | ||
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On April 11 2013 01:11 Oatsmaster wrote: Anyway. Im going to claim, cause my role basically makes me confirmed town so yeah. IMA RECRUITING MASON. So dudes come into my house uninvited, drink my coffee, steal my dinner plates and shit. Thats hillarious I was so close to making you VT. lemme guess. RO has been recruited... | ||
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On April 05 2013 01:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Hai rolepicking is stupid and doesn't work, thanks for spamming the thread. So let's move on to why people are calling Caller scum when it's pretty clear he's not. Anyone wanna take credit for that... Bueller? Bueller? On April 05 2013 01:58 Oatsmaster wrote: scummy scum scum. Also no one called Caller scum seriously. they only called me scum seriously So this is you talking to the guy you are masoned with? | ||
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im going to bed 4 realz now | ||
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oats who was added first RO or MZ? | ||
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On April 10 2013 23:43 Mocsta wrote: Interesting question. But it also relies on BM being targeted by Role Reverser. Based on thread sentiment, I find that highly unlikely. I take that back. Sn0 was right. BM crumbed pretty hard leading to end of Night. So yes, if you believe BM is town and caller town; and scum would have chosen that role. Then yes, quite a likely option. | ||
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damn it. i was hoping the latter. That debunks what i wanted Take 2: surely there is conversation in the QT regarding Austin? I find it difficult to comprehend a guy wanting to nuke austin; wouldnt have asked for either of you for your opinion - if town (like u say he is) If its a love fest like RO says it is.. then either u guys agreed Austin should be dead; or failed miserably to convince? | ||
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u guys agreed to some extend scum. looking for the plexa breadcrumbs On April 10 2013 10:50 Restraining Order wrote: Anyways, scum is still austin, vivax and mocsta. plexaplexa | ||
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i think im meant to be shortly after vivax. Im not claiming before Vivax, but dont want to hold up the queue. So, I did crumb my role; twice talking to the same person. Peace Out. | ||
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That and caller being scum blows my mind. Guess its the equivalent to svcum vivax vigging scum to in Mafia lx. If I took a guess. Deconduo was town then. And not lying when he said he used it to learn alignments. So two scum out there. Gonna re read sharrant. His retort was pretty weak, and he never came back like he promised. I'm gonna relook into Shevlocke. Its clear now this scum team had no qualms throwing all under the bus. We have a chance to finish off the game this cycle with double lynch. | ||
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Snb is interesting too. He hasn't done anything other than vote ve.. Which he did super late into the cycle. As I said u to u mid day1. I'm used to him not putting up with bullshit as town. This game most of his posts are coming in to laugh at ppl For now ##unvote: sinani ##unvote: oats | ||
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What do u make of snb and his fake invention post? Do u think he gave u the lie detector? Is that action in itself enough to consider him town? I don't think so personally | ||
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I half claimed last night. Th hold up is a preswnt vivax nd non present shevlocke | ||
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austin wasnt the strongest scum.cndidate going forward.today to release the check is protown as its meant to remove an option from discussion so we can focus better | ||
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On April 11 2013 09:33 geript wrote: Lol @Sn0. You totes scum. Mate. We have numbers advantage. So can afford to wait for flip. I suggest we scrap austin and thus sno off the list for today. Whilst i didnt like kei much day1. I think he has improved a lot since then and shouldnt be a candidate. Fuck knows why dandel is so dumb and is voting me but watevs. Geript. U got some thoughts on snb? Wat u think of him coming in to say he isnt inventor. Nut ignoring everything else? | ||
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On April 11 2013 09:41 Vivax wrote: What if I fakeclaim, oh look I tried to pick cop it wasn't available sowwy I'm just a VT. Nothing going to change if I claim. Scum can lie, and it doesn't make anyone town. I'd rather show I'm town through my actions, not help scum choose their NK targets. Thats not a response to what i said. I commented that u think austin and kei and sno doing a power play. U talkjng about the claim. Im not asking u to claim. Im just saying u r the hold up. | ||
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Shevlocke Sharrant Mz Obviousone The lynch should be two of those four. Obvious has done the least out of all four. He gets my vote. The other i will have to think bout. Leaning shevlocke for doing nothing except fake shoot. Need to re read the old.cases. ##vote:obviousone | ||
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Shevlocke Sharrant Mz Obviousone The lynch should be two of those four. Obvious has done the least out of all four. He gets my vote. The other i will have to think bout. Leaning shevlocke for doing nothing except fake shoot. Need to re read the old.cases. ##vote:obviousone | ||
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U r not confirmed town. Ur vt claim on ve could be a powerplay as well. So knock of the negativity. As i said before. Scum most likely is sitting back and letting us cannibalise each other. The ppl lurking in the shadows is Oo Shevlocke Sharrant Mz ==== Can u give me thoughts on those 4 pls | ||
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On April 11 2013 10:58 geript wrote: If we trust Kei and Austin as well as the BM justice vig claim then the best lynches are: RO/MZ Mocsta Vivax I see no reason to trust the investigations b/c of the GF addon flip. So I would add: Sn0 Sinani Thats hillarious So when did u start disagreeing with ur day1 where u said i was probably town. This u turn from u needs.some back up. All u r doing this cycle is cock block without justification At day1 with ve. U had a case.. So lets hear it | ||
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What is ur opinion on town canibalising itself on play it doesnt like vs hunting scum? I.e. Thoughts on the lurker list i said before pls. | ||
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On April 11 2013 12:51 yamato77 wrote: I do like geript's analysis of Vivax' meta, to an extent. If people are really opposed to killing sinani because of this check, Vivax is a good substitute. M_Z is non-negotiable. I don't care how much these idiots believe in their reads. Yeah i can swing mz. Mainly because he hasnt come back in 24hrs. The pissed off attitude is coming off now like staged drama. === What do u think of sharrant retort. Its left a sour taste in my mouth. Im struggling whether i dont like his playstyle. Or think he is scummy though. | ||
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On April 11 2013 12:54 geript wrote: Yoyomato plz tell me when Sn0 got invested in Nmm38. I'll give you a hint read day 3 when his scum buddy was heavy on the block. Then read his other games... Tell me when he got invested... You kno bc it was way before then. Kthnxbai I hope this is just poor analysis and not intentially false. I cohosted that game Sno subbed in day3 So yeah. Ironic u say he became invested in the thread day 3 | ||
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Trust the check today. We can afford And if they lying its gg next day cycle. But i think its truthful What did u think of sharrant reply? | ||
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Instead u were calling me scum today geript. What gives? | ||
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The last bit of the mz analysis Where u say scum prefer ve over art for lynch Implicates snb heavily As town he isnt scared to make early cases. E.g. Personality2 with his case 8hrs in on oatsmaster. And he stands by his cases. Here he has done.nothing. And went.aboard at a very opportune time. | ||
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But yeah Im voting Snb/oo when i get home Mind is made up | ||
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Very meek looking for sympathy tone. Mz looks better to me. In retrospect. The guy thought he was vigged. Technically it can be interpretted hes not meant to talk anymore . And with the shot on austin. His action to disappear can be avcounted for. Prob came back cos didnt get an obsqt link lol Thwres a start contrast between the mz and oo explanation posts. With geript. The only thibg that makes.me doubt him is that he constantly wants to be thought of as confirmed town. But thas prob not alignment indicative Yeah Sticking with oo after that post And snb | ||
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On April 05 2013 05:34 strongandbig wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On April 04 2013 22:47 Oatsmaster wrote: pshhhh words. Intention is far more important than mere WORDS. Why did you phrase that 'question' to Caller in a way to appear like you are discrediting him? it's not the facts that matter, it's the meaning behind the facts. Anyways. Looking through snb filter and found this tribute to blazing hand. Amazingly, this is a direct scum claim. Snb is a meticulous guy. U can tell from his diatribe about the kenpachi rule in noir obsqt. This scum claim is a direct reference to a scum blazing hand in the game. U will have to read the obsqt to get the reference. But essentially its a manipulation tactic. Snb in all the town games I played with him is meticulous to detail and aggressive in reads. He most certainly does not shit the thread with throw away comments like the above. If that's not enough for. Its a weak chain defense in relation to caller being called out by ro. | ||
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For shits and giggles Another useless snb thread interaction. look who is the topic starter. Caller again | ||
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On April 07 2013 06:09 strongandbig wrote: On other news shelvocke is scum? How has VE been refusing to play? A vote on ve at this point needs way more justification than the sentence he posted. Last one This is the guy that jumped onboard the die ve bus. Now the content of the post is fair enough to be townie.. But.. The tone is scum , with the knowledge ve is scum. Town response.. Its early game, give the guy a chance to participate. Scum response... See above He's actually trying to quash an activity case on ve, without trying to define ve alignment. | ||
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On April 09 2013 01:07 strongandbig wrote: Yeah I agree with what I said before about VE. I still think artanis is decently likely to be scum, as is shelvocke and to a lesser extent OO. But I'm gonna go ahead and ##vote: VE OK I lied Last one for real This is his first vote in the game He even admits he finds artanis scummy, and commented on the case priore agreeing with some points. Why is this his first vote in the game then? Why did he ask ppl who tried for assassin to claim. Before this vote. Yeah, we got scum right here. | ||
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How come everyone is ignoring my points on snb? Gimme feedback pl0x | ||
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Well I'm going to bed Its too hard dining everything on a phone. N whilst snb is overall low activity as town, or lurky as u say. I still find he makes some posts that have impact. Neways the key is. During the artanis debacle he never takes a firm stance .. Using OK as his excuse for scum hunting.. Yet never votes or pressures hard. Night. Sorry I regressed to the point u stopped reading my posts. That's a shame on my behalf. | ||
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Who did u parity check Austin with? I'm not claiming yet as its not my turn. As I said before I crumbed it. So will release when I wake up | ||
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Personally I read pointed 1 and 3 as looking for vt to use assassin on. Its moot as can be taken as townie or scum. As for point 2. Its all fluff. He says this, he says that, but what does he actually do? Why does he say he agrees with art an is having scummy points, and then try to push too out of no where, dodging any responsibility with artanis. His vote doesn't come in till after geript NRA post. So ve was fucked regardless. | ||
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If u know who is vt U k ow who not to shoot Its all subjective and can be spun I stand by it being moot | ||
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Are u just reading the filter literally or taking into account the thread sentiment? Shevlocke wasn't getting lynched day1. It was either artanis or ve. In my opinion, your point 2 is snb giving a fleshed out summary post. ===== I'm going to bed. I'm not claiming my role outright. Its not my turn and bm hinted he may not be justice for whatever reason. So I am either Bloodycobbler, capitalist or vigilante. I don't think its important to known right now which one it is exactly. I either have 1 kp left, or a couple role checks. I prefer scum to be kept on toes. | ||
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will present my crumbs in a second. But firstly, im pretty disappointed with the discussions held around me over night. I actually thought this was one of my better games; at least Day1/Night1. I thought I have been pretty damn open in all thoughts; yes, I have said some dumb things -as most. But its all aided in helping solve the game. Yes, since Day2, I have been spammier; but its because, half this town just ignores questions presented to them. Or respond to accusations by "LOL". This does nothing to facilitate discussions. Its very frustrating. Austin prob going to shoot me; so whatevs, learning lesson for everyone. I still dont like SnB, and i dont thnk him making a list post of claims is alignment indicative. So the contributions are still fuck all. & lastly, you can laugh at those posts with "meticulous" or whatever, but i was writing that all on a tablet. its a pain in the arse, and im going to write whats convenient for me; not what necessarily communicates itself the best. | ||
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He has denied being the JV.. so there was a chance he would try for vig or capitalist. Because I crumbed (in my opinion pretty hard).. i had a chance to catch him on a lie. Secondly.. Austin, i didnt make a case on deconduo late in the cycle. I made if halfway through and followed it through consistently; and debated with Palmar about it. I put lots of pressure on Deconduo in the thread; so because Palmar was my 3rd scum read at the time, I wanted to shoot him.. hence the crumbs are with him. Towards the end of the cycle, I changed my mind with Palmar, so went back to my top scum read and shot Deconduo. Crumbs (1) I have vested interest in the role... because of my draft order, i PMd originally for 'recruiting mason"; hence my comment to Oats about almost making him VT. I took a gamble and went for capitalist, because all up I thought it was a really awesome town role. On April 05 2013 14:51 Mocsta wrote: ... yeah, thats why for town i like roles like "capitalist" which wasnt in ya pod. You get 1 KP, and 3 role-checks. Nice balance. To Palmar (who i was considering shooting due to his unwillingness to consider dec as scum) On April 09 2013 20:27 Mocsta wrote: .... Don't tell me how to scumhunt bitch; or ima pop a cap in yo ass. ===== Anyways, you can't refute what I said, and the more you try; the more im gonna have to get all business with you. ..... (3) To Austin (who I had a weak scum read on Day 1) On April 08 2013 10:21 Mocsta wrote: ...... Back to business pl0x: ...... I repeat: A town AustinMCC is better than this. | ||
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On April 12 2013 10:25 Vivax wrote: Feeling guilty mocsta? No.. just annoyed Its pretty demotivating when you are trying to engage people in discussion and constantly provoke people to actually think. And then everyone just shits all over you. Lastly, Geript play has really been alerting me all cycle. His only strong opinion with foundation has been VE, who he tunneled relentlessly. And he has that stupid post, where he calls me town based on an alignment null post. Later, he regresses and associates me with scum. And then there is this stupid bickering with Sn0, who is prob CPR Medic based on claims thus far. If im alive night 2, im role checking Geript. | ||
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I just got ignored. There is a big difference Austin. I can handle the being ignored; because at least people like Kei have kept going back/forth with me. But when you get called scummy for trying to generate meaningful conversation; that is truly annoying. | ||
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On April 12 2013 10:41 Sharrant wrote: The GF's ability that "covers" a player, does it obscure their flip as well? Like, if he made someone appear as a certain role and alignment would the player revert to their actual role and alignment, or would they flip as what he covered them? This just popped into my head, it may be a little paranoid but whatever: The Godfather role says he can cover a player "CHANGING THEIR ROLE AND ALIGNMENT" as opposed to the framer which says "CHANGE HOW ONE'S ALIGNMENT APPEARS". This makes me think that it would obscure a flip as well. What if Caller didn't kill a mafia, what if Artanis was made to look like the assassin? I think I'm getting really paranoid with that one, and BC will probably come in and say their proper alignment is revealed upon flip, but that would really change where we are in the game. Mod confirmed, the GF was a bonus meaning.. he chose a KP role; and had a Killer type Role PM. So I suspect this is paranoid, but we shall see when he responds I guess. | ||
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On April 12 2013 10:43 austinmcc wrote: Yeah, there's not much time to shoot but I'm serious when I've said all along that the long game favors town and I don't think people should be firing KP all over the place. Perhaps it's dumb to not use the shot, but oh well. Only thing I'm super considering is shooting obviousone, as a prelynch almost, since it appears that he's going down. But I don't love having stalled this long, only to dick with the double lynch this late in the cycle. Frankly, I don't love my play during the nuke day as a whole. Not enough scumhunting, too much crappy play and disinterest in game. If you're shooting OO I have to reconsider votes as I had OO and no one wants to join SnB; so will have to shift that vote some where more useful. | ||
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Shevlocke/Geript lynch if you shooting OO otherwise OO/Shevlocke (for that showtime VT thingo) | ||
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WTF lol so its possible the role was WIFOM'd out of the game.. funny wasnt sharrant obsessed with that role before? And now he is "vt" going for detective? | ||
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On April 12 2013 10:48 Sharrant wrote: Nono, the GF's ability. I know the GF part was a bonus. But Artanis might not have been the Assassin GF. If say, Sn0man (just picking a name at this point) had picked the role Godfather and used the ability to cover Artanis, would Artanis' death reveal his original role, or the role that he was covered with. To be frank, this is reading to me as a last minute WIFOM attempt before lynch deadline. | ||
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On April 12 2013 10:51 Sharrant wrote: I wanted that role blocked, yes. But I was picking halfway down the list, there's not a chance I'm actually blocking the role if I go for it. so I went with something that suited my character. Did realise DT was synonymous with lurking, but watevs. Why would u think DT is not a popular role? + I thought you may have tried to confirm it rhough VT. | ||
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On April 12 2013 10:51 Keirathi wrote: He has claimed. Well, he didn't directly say the words, but he's the inventor. LOl of course.... wait so wats OO then? what if he is CPR... | ||
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On April 12 2013 10:53 Sharrant wrote: Artanis was also easy to talk to before death. So scum/town have the same motivation (to survive)Then you're bad at reading, because I'm dead. It doesn't matter how it happens, I will die. Either I will be lynched, or I will be shot in the night by a townie if I am not lynched, solely because I escaped the lynch. Of that there is no doubt. I'm trying to give the town as much information as I can possibly think of in the hour I have left to post.If the GF has that ability, it would explain a lot of the early game. So I want to make sure that it is either not possible, or that people know that it's something to be awareof. Look. thing is.. with all the roles out there.. why wouldnt the "real" assassin have shot a town contributor like keirathi by now? etc.. i just dont think this argument holds weight. | ||
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On April 12 2013 10:54 Sn0_Man wrote: I think there is a bloodycobbler. My role is strong and I'm confirmed town. I'm in no rush to allow that particular KP to hit me, though I admit that it is quite likely I die tonight. I could get dayvigged by BloodyCobbler role if I claim now and therefore not be able to... use my role. My soft claim: I happen to know some things about the invention last night that the thread at large doesn't know. Pls tell me Keirathi hasnt been lying? | ||
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I going to assume you shooting (unclaimed OO) then.. shevlocke, for VT as showtime which DT checker do we want to lynch so far we have austin/SnB/keirath/Sharrant keirathi is off the block as far as i am concerned, boviously so is austin So SnB or Sharrant? | ||
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if the intention wasnt to lynch. | ||
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On April 12 2013 11:14 austinmcc wrote: It pulls some people off the table. It possibly catches scum. It forces scum to commit to a story now, rather than later, if they want to fakeclaim. Maybe geript had terminally low blood pressure, and dangling sn0 claiming in front of him all day helped to raise his blood pressure and save his life. EVEN IF THE POINT WAS TO LYNCH PEOPLE WHY WOULD WE JUST GO "LET'S LYNCH PEOPLE WHO CLAIMED DETECTIVE ROLES"? That doesn't make sense to me why, if we were lynching on only claims, we'd lynch ... a specific role that was claimed? Because we came to the conclusion there was too many dt roles we asked for hard dt claims & didnt get them I forgot to add Vivax as a dt claimer. | ||
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On April 12 2013 11:15 Keirathi wrote: Also @mocta: what about Vivax? Why did you leave him out? See above | ||
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On April 12 2013 11:17 Keirathi wrote: Im playing sc2 atm, so cant quoteWhat do you mean "we came to the conclusion that there are too many of them"? We never came to any such conclusion. I'm actually happy that we have so many (claimed) investigation roles. but im sure someone said it like 1 or 2 pages ago. | ||
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On April 12 2013 11:19 austinmcc wrote: AND WHY DO YOU WANT TO KILL PEOPLE BASED ON THEIR CLAIMS WHEN YOU HAVE CLAIMED TO HAVE A ROLE THAT ROLECHECKS, SO YOU CAN TOTALLY, YOU KNOW, CONFIRM OR CATCH SOMEONE IF YOU'RE SUSPICIOUS OF THEM? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Cos. i expect to die, like i expected to die night 1. Whether you read my posts or not, i still think i have contributed a lot this game. so fuck off with the caps. | ||
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On April 12 2013 11:23 sinani206 wrote: yeah VoteRigger.. hmm im making a leap of faith but maybe u dont get to choose bonus i.e. you not a killer, so didnt get gf bonus | ||
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anyone recall if scum or town did it? | ||
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as vote rigger; u cant be gf.. hence the check is valid if u r vote rigger | ||
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On April 12 2013 11:29 Restraining Order wrote: If you actually expect to get shot, you are delusional. If you are town, and I'm havin my doubts here just sayin, you're doing like 90% of scums work for them. And why are u town again? all u do is chip in with useless comments have u even made an honest attempt to scum hunt this game i cant remember why ppl think u r town anymore. | ||
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OO/RO vote ##Unvote: SNB ##Vote: RestrainingOrder | ||
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On April 12 2013 11:33 sinani206 wrote: Um Mocsta, serious question: is there something preventing you from using proper grammar? yeah i already said it before im playing sc2 | ||
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too late to do massive vote swap | ||
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so no need to be afk... esp in qt | ||
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On April 12 2013 11:56 Restraining Order wrote: If you super-cool kids lucky, one of you will get mason access now, then you can release logs like a badboy and feel all good and tingly about it. Wont it happen at start of day3? | ||
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so 3 confirmed scummers dead Question is whether BM actually shot scum or not. If he did, then Deconduo was town | ||
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Im pretty keen on a MZ death next cycle with the massive AFK. | ||
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================== Mocsta -> (Cap) ->Deconduo OO -> (CPR) -> ??? (Palmar/Rayn) BM -> (JV?) -> Caller Scum -> (1 KP) -> ??? (Palmar/Rayn) ============== So all KP is accounted for; so if BM is town; scum only have their factional 1KP left. If BM is a scum night vig; scum still only have 2KP. *I guess this doesnt take into account a scum thief role* hmmmm theres quite a few role checkers left + the inventor; so I still think we can strategise checks without much fear. | ||
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so far we only got Vivax = Parity IIRC? On April 12 2013 11:57 Sharrant wrote: I'm going to say this again: Lynch StrongAndBig tomorrow. He showed up tonight not to help town on the lynch, but to see if he was on the chopping block, and when he realized he wasn't he left. He's not trying to figure out alignments because he's the last scum. Lynch StrongAndBig. This guy needs to hard claim like NOW. | ||
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On April 12 2013 14:03 geript wrote: Right now I'm having second thoughts about caller being scum. this has been my line of thought actually just had a massage so plenty of time to reflect safest assumption is that 2 scum r still at large the only reason we considered caller scum was because bm said he was justice noone actually reviewed caller filter post-mortem im gonna do a bunch of filter dives be back later | ||
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On April 12 2013 14:05 yamato77 wrote: READ: That's what I've been saying since BM claimed he shot Caller >_> so u havent believed BM all game? y have u been pushing mz all the time then? | ||
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who is jv then.... | ||
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lets say Rayn was JV.. and died because he hit a townie Great... why is BM lying? Is that lie enouhg to justify a lynch? | ||
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On April 12 2013 14:21 Keirathi wrote: The thing about BM's claim, like I've already said multiple times, is that is self-fulfilling. Either S&B dies tomorrow and flips scum, BM dies tomorrow and flips town JV, or both are still alive and we have probable cause to lynch BM. Yeah I get that. We are having conversation to solve the game, before the night ends. To be frank: If the last three people were scum; sinani; and (a town) RO. Im not sure if town would win. *Yes, thats both a dig @ RO. and a genuine comment about end gaming with people like Grush etc* | ||
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On April 12 2013 14:26 Keirathi wrote: Also, this is part of the reason I wanted sn0 to invent the Autopsy thing. I don't think rayn picked JV in slot 2. Very, very unlikely, imo. Emperor is a possibility, or something else entirely. Palmar: his insistence on his part in the VE lynch makes me think emperor. JV is a possibility though. The point of the item is to check the corpse of rayn for his role. If he's anything other than emperor, then we know that Palmar was emperor, which means that BM has to be JV because yam also tried to pick it. Or that yam is lying and is something else entirely. I agree on the palmar tell for emperor, which was the consensus back on Day2. Kei, this seems to be a convoluted way to just burn a check on JV. Why burn an invention? | ||
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On April 11 2013 07:59 Keirathi wrote: VERDICT: INNOCENT (Yes, that means he's town) [Explanation]Sorry, all this was just RP for funsies. The Lie Detector isn't really a Lie Detector at all. It's just a day DT check, with a few conditionals. It could only be used on the person leading the vote count, and it could only be used if that person had at least 5 votes. I decided to check sinani since he's borderline unreadable, and doing it now gives the thread plenty of time to discuss an alternate candidate if he is town. If he's scum, then awesome. day "DT" check. That implies role + alignment, is this correct? | ||
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and the game isnt over Then we need to reconsider Sinani; as all we have is a green check. Reclusive Traitor - You are the traitor who wants to win with the mafia. However, you are scared about being tricked and won't join up easily. You can join with the mafia if you can correctly guess >50% of their team (i,e 4 players alive, you make a 4 person list with 3 mafia on it), or if they guess you. Each side has 1 guess each. You show up as Vanilla Townie to Detective checks both before and after recruitment. Its prob being paranoid and not worth further discussion. | ||
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On April 12 2013 16:03 Keirathi wrote: Yeah, I just did a full parse through BM filter looking for this JV stuff.+ Show Spoiler + EBWOP: actually, I'll make it simple. Either you claim before night ends, or you get lynched tomorrow. Your only claim to townieness was that we all thought you were justice vig because of how sure you were that Caller was scum. My conclusion is actually not what I expected at all. Let us proceed ========================================== (1) + Show Spoiler [Soft Claims to JV] + On April 06 2013 11:48 Bill Murray wrote: ok Ver/Mason PM me I have a powerful role that people wouldnt think is powerful On April 10 2013 12:33 Bill Murray wrote: We know a maf died last night since the janitor power was used. The other 3 kills will be mafia, in all likelihood, so Caller was scum. On April 10 2013 12:38 Sn0_Man wrote: The janitor doesn't know in advance who was going to die. This logic is flawed. On April 10 2013 12:39 Bill Murray wrote: I believe this is the exchange, where people starting *assuming* BM was soft-claiming JV.I know for a fact caller was scum. Which is exacerbated here: On April 10 2013 12:39 Keirathi wrote: No, it doesn't make you confirmed town. But think about this setup. Scum has to pick their roles in a way to use them together as a team. Why would they use Showtime! in that situation? Hint: they wouldn't. Not on the Assassin, one of the strongest roles in the game. And, on top of that. And you didn't even read the thread before you killed him? Seriously? ........................................................ I'm going to go watch TV or something for an hour before I get modkilled for raging. On April 10 2013 12:40 Bill Murray wrote: talk about this after the game. Caller was 100% scum. & On April 10 2013 12:41 Bill Murray wrote: i KNOW Caller was scum... and I Can thank Geript... I looked up the Emperor role, and I thought something was a little different with MY role, but unless some weird string of events happened Caller was 100% scum & On April 10 2013 12:43 Bill Murray wrote: The supposition is that JV is a role only town will take, correct?If you all want to use the lie detector on me, I'll claim my role, and it will clear me as town. I better get some protection if that happens. More innuendo On April 10 2013 12:44 Bill Murray wrote: I have an easily clearable role. & On April 10 2013 16:18 Bill Murray wrote: Yeah, no. You're not directing the town. I am killing you tonight, unless you prove to me you are town. & On April 10 2013 16:22 Bill Murray wrote: but hey if you're town you have nothing to worry about More innuendo and very interesting stance on ObviousOne On April 11 2013 20:09 Bill Murray wrote: is austin alive? On April 11 2013 20:10 Oatsmaster wrote: for now. Are you justice vig or not? On April 11 2013 20:13 Bill Murray wrote: Hes trying to keep up this innuendo charade by teasing us *JUST* the right amount we think he is JV; but not get pissed off enough to lynch him.I am too busy to be messing with plebians at this time I will not roleclaim. I may have been lying about my kp, I may not. We'll talk about that when I want. Your votes are on OO, and Vivax. Care to explain your thought process behind that for everyone? Because I am completely fine with your vote on Vivax, but I'm failing to see why you voted OO... Was it his post last page? He looked pretty town to me BM barely commented throughout the cycle; but took the opportunity to ensure that we knew he thought ObviousOne was town. Conclusion Many of the comments BM are making are highly ambiguous. If I wasn't looking for a role; I would personally think the guy is trolling about // expressing confidence in his reads // looking for scum, by saying if you are town we don't have a problem. One of the main pushers of BM = JV, is a confirmed townie (via Austin check) On April 10 2013 23:33 Sn0_Man wrote: + Show Spoiler + Anyway, BM has now basically claimed justice vigi. I find it pretty hard to believe that he justice-vigged Caller and is still alive, but it might not interact the way I think. So I think the concept that BM is JV was to fill in the gaps post-janitor flip. ==========================================The question now is: why did BM run with it? (2) + Show Spoiler [BM Day 1 peculiarities] + (Before Gonzaw case on Artanis) On April 07 2013 11:11 Bill Murray wrote: Setting himself up to having shot Caller. Could be valid town transparency.I was just thinking about a case on Caller. He, in the past, has been one to skirt deadlines as scum. Him claiming that has me raising my eyebrows. (After Day1 post) On April 10 2013 12:25 Bill Murray wrote: I don't get to see if I killed scum last night? gay On April 10 2013 12:25 Bill Murray wrote: This completely goes against BM being a JVI killed Caller btw On April 07 2013 01:43 Bill Murray wrote: Mocsta I don't give a shit if you vote me or not Not like I've played a game in the last 7 months I'm going to bed at 1pm At least I'm not a townie fuck it On April 10 2013 12:49 Oatsmaster wrote: BM. Lets take it slow. Why would Caller(scum), use showtime(good power), to lynch Artanis(scum), with a really really really great power, assassin(good power)? For towncred? No towncred is worth that shit. On April 10 2013 13:06 Bill Murray wrote: He is obviously aware of the benefits of bus play; and henceforth; I believe (if town) this is his predicate for the Caller shot.Let's say I'm scum and I kill scum town loves me On April 09 2013 14:21 Bill Murray wrote: Odd defense. I dont recall him using a meta argument to check if Caller is a bus type player....why the fuck are people listing me as mafia? are you all forgetting that I was on the Artanis wagon? Check my meta, I don't EVER bus. + Show Spoiler [BM Day2 peculiarities] + On April 10 2013 13:22 Bill Murray wrote: I don't find this comment out of the norm in general. But consider; in Day1 he had no qualm "shooting" Caller for bussing Artanis. So with that context; this is indeed an "out of the norm" query regarding scum flipped ObviousOne.MOCSTA, why are you voting ObviousOne? He was on the Artanis wagon. Are you proposing that he bussed him? Repeated quote that is another defense of ObviousOne On April 11 2013 20:10 Oatsmaster wrote: Are you justice vig or not? On April 11 2013 20:13 Bill Murray wrote: I am too busy to be messing with plebians at this time I will not roleclaim. I may have been lying about my kp, I may not. We'll talk about that when I want. Your votes are on OO, and Vivax. Care to explain your thought process behind that for everyone? Because I am completely fine with your vote on Vivax, but I'm failing to see why you voted OO... Was it his post last page? He looked pretty town to me Conclusion Given the quality of his filter; if anything, there is too much transparency/follow through with Caller. ==========================================The double standards that apply to Caller, and not ObviousOne are weird; but by itself could be townie tunneling. The big issue is that post-janitor flip, he acted as if he didnt know the alignment of caller? Sure a JV would know that being alive = killing scum? It is not until 20minutes later when talking to Sn0; that BM displays the confidence that could suggest he is JV. (3) + Show Spoiler [Scum WIFOM] + On April 06 2013 20:55 Palmar wrote: @Mocsta: BM is scum. he adds nothing at all with his posts which (surprisingly enough) is actually very uncharacteristic for him if he's town. Just based on content alone he's really not doing much except giving out a townread on VE based on meta for whatever reason. In order to see whether there was a difference or not, I went to BC's arkham city, an old game but one with mechanics to deal with and BM playing town, and his posting there couldn't be more different from what he's doing here, or well... it could, but then it wouldn't be BM anymore. On April 06 2013 21:14 Bill Murray wrote: complete and utter bullshit coming from someone who normally posts and ISNT that I have called out Conclusion We now have BM giving out free town reads on VE & ObviousOne when they fall under pressure. ==========================================For WIFOM (an assumed town Palmar) gave a scum read on BM. Personally, I was surprised Palmar was shot; as he did fuck all. Maybe not everyone had a scum read on him; but certainly almost no one thought he was probably town. Hence, I think scum could have safely kept him around. However, this scum read could be a valid reason for a shot. TL;DR BM has refused to give out his role; but has held no reservations stringing the JV assumption along. BM has had odd defenses for flipped scum members; and in general a few odd comments. Townies dont often say "At least I'm not a townie. Fuck It" Further. I dont believe he is Justice Vig. Purely based on one post. On April 10 2013 12:25 Bill Murray wrote: ------------------------I don't get to see if I killed scum last night? gay I tried to write I think BM is scum. But I just cant see scum doing something so stupid like fake claiming JV. I actually think the guy is a *town* Night Vig; or BloodyCobbler. Leaning towards Night Vig; and thus, has another shot tonight. I think the secrecy has been in the same vein as me: keep scum guessing (i.e. they would leave him alone, as high chance he would shoot town and thus die) The corollary is: The belief that BM was JV was so high; Yamato took a chance to claim an easy VT. i.e. Yamato is scum | ||
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See post above: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=162#3232 ============================================= I tried to write I think BM is scum. But I just cant see scum doing something so stupid like fake claiming JV. I actually think the guy is a *town* Night Vig; or BloodyCobbler. Leaning towards Night Vig; and thus, has another shot tonight. I think the secrecy has been in the same vein as me: keep scum guessing (i.e. they would leave him alone, as high chance he would shoot town and thus die) The corollary is: The belief that BM was JV was so high; Yamato took a chance to claim an easy VT. i.e. Yamato is scum | ||
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On April 12 2013 16:20 Bill Murray wrote: yes im the damn justice vig. it's a role scum can't take. it would be irrelevant for them to have it, because if they hit town, they would die This makes me look stupid. | ||
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On April 12 2013 16:35 Bill Murray wrote: Geript, you may have everyone else fooled, but you don't have me. I don't want to lose another player for us tonight, and you're pretty much guaranteed that. Your faction lost one of its last 2 KP, and you're probably something like a Politician, the way you're playing. Is this a slip? On April 12 2013 16:35 Bill Murray wrote: Your faction lost one of its last 2 KP, I dont know how much KP scum actually have? I just know the KP for night1 has been accounted for..... | ||
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On April 12 2013 19:39 Restraining Order wrote: + Show Spoiler + I have no idea why you guys need to make this game so incredibly annoying to read. We're fucking crushing scum, and this is still one of the most shitty threads I've ever read. On April 12 2013 17:27 geript wrote: I don't consider catching a good scum player on D0 playing badly. Would you? Obviously so... by the way, how many scum have you caught this game? Hey, I pushed and/or lynched 3 scum so far, and you still love to call me mafia for no fucking reason. NO REASON AT ALL. You have no fucking place in the world where you can use arguments like this so please kindly shut the fuck up with a cherry on top. Dandel, you need to knock it off. Your argument applies even moreso to me. Yet that didnt stop you casting a vote my direction. You are a very negative person; and you are making this game very unenjoyable. Im also confident you are town; just an idiot town. I think you are town, because, unlike you. who comes in to just shit on people in the thread. I have been reading filters, specifically flipped scum. And VE made essentially one post with effort; a case against you. I think this was a case genuinely attempting to secure a lynch; thus, for me: you are confirmed town. If you think Geript is scum, then pressure him instead of telling him to shut up. If you think Geript is town, then stop shitting up the thread, and making people unwilling to contribute further; otherwise we will have to apply for a restraining order. | ||
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On April 12 2013 19:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Alright so how does this sound to everyone. If BM is alive at the day post and no scum has died I will nuke him. Thoughts? Thats assuming you're alive. But yes; if you are, I find that acceptable. JusticeVig must shoot each night. Not sure what BM was smoking when he said that. | ||
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if u want to shit on geript for "I have no idea why you guys need to make this game so incredibly annoying to read." Why dont you show us how its done, and let us all know who the remaining scum team is. | ||
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On April 08 2013 11:19 Caller wrote: Alright guys just kidding we kill ObviousOne. I threw the vote on artanis because mafia love bandwagons. Now that we've gotten one, it seems pretty obvious to me that people we should be looking for are on the lower parts of the bandwagon list. But not the last one. Given that, who we we have?+ Show Spoiler + Oatsmaster ##Vote: Artanis As a rule I usually try to lynch the 3rd or 4th person on the bandwagon. Since I was the 3rd person on the bandwagon, that leaves Monsieur Oatsmaster as a rather fishy hanger-on to the bandwagon. I already made a case on why I wanted to lynch him, but I don't see him as a threat right now. Still keep dis in mind plox. Meapak_Ziphh Vote: Artanis[XP] Meapak_Ziphh? Who knows. I don't care enough right now to find out. deconduo ##Vote: Shelvocke Null tell. Vivax ##Vote Sno_Man Null tell. Artanis[Xp] ##Vote: Shelvocke I don't really know what Artanis is due to lack of effort, but this follow-on vote to deconduo is pretty scummy. Palmar ##Vote Artanis[Xp] :| Shelvocke ##Vote Artanis[Xp] ah, the typical OMGUS. Normally could be a townie war, except that this is a bandwagon. Very Scummy. Keirathi ##Unvote Hmm. You want to make my life interesting, do you? 8 times out of 10 that I see this, it is a mafia trying to get town cred for not voting for obvious day 1 townie lynch. Vewy Intewesting. ObviousOne ##Vote Artanis[XP] Ah, and we get to the core of the matter. This guy has done nothing but throw ambivalency around. Yet now he's so sure that he will hop-on the bandwagonn. If you were really not sure about this and you were town, you'd be like "HANG ONS GUYS I THINKS HE MIGHT BE OKAY" and then watch helplessly as the bandwagon gains infinite momentum and lynches innocent townie #1. But nope, instead you're like "but wait guys i read his meta and came out with some random conclusions that don't actually mean anything because meta is stupid especially among players that have played this game more than three days." I actually went ahead and read his filter for those games, and I think that your conclusions are bullshit that can easily be construed as whatever you want.. Given that he explicitly stated that as mafia he would be "next time" more involved, but that he simply got lost due to large amount of posts, do you expect any credence that his behaving similar to the previous game is any true indication of his alignment this game? No. You shouldn't. And it's a dumb reason for going on a dumb bandwagon, but it makes you look nice! VOTE THIS GUY. yamato77 ##Vote Artanis I'm fairly satisfied that yamato is town as it stands. I'll still jump on him in a heartbeat but I don't think he's mafia. Restraining Order ##Vote: Artanis Strangely enough, I think RO is town. Are you gonna get a reason for it? Nope. Why the fuck would "scum" caller try to divert the lynch from "assassin" artanis to "cpr medic" ObviousOne. The only benefit of assassin is day kill; CPR doesnt need role claim, so its possibly more valuable. Caller was town. Full Stop. BM is certainly not JusticeVig. He still *may* be town. Yamato is 100% confirmed scum. Why? Palmar makes sense as emperor; and Rayn was too high up the draft to risk it all on the dreamflower. Now we know BM is not JV; how is Yam a VT. Simple.. he is not. | ||
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On April 12 2013 20:32 Oatsmaster wrote: You fucking fakeclaimed a shot, for no reason. Vivax still scum, I dont know why he wants a big case written against him though, seems like that would be harder to defend. I haven't re-read his filter; but to be honest, hes not a priority read to me. I havent found him to be overly disruptive; and I think that scum Vivax likes to be disruptive in a variety of ways. Thoughts om cameltoe77? | ||
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On April 11 2013 09:58 Restraining Order wrote: Bombing list without the now green check in it: Mindlessly carpetbomb into the following people: obviousone strongandbig sharrant Mocsta Shelvocke Vivax Decide who of those you want to lynch, I really have little in the way of strong feelings. Well I want Vivax dead, and Mocsta would be nice just so he finally shuts up. But whatever, I can deal with it if it doesn't happen. See ya tomorrow.. Is this what u meant be case. Let me know where to recommend you for a Mafia 2013 Best Bullshit award. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On April 10 2013 11:13 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Day 2 Caller as Andrew Mellon On April 10 2013 12:25 Bill Murray wrote: I killed Caller btw On April 10 2013 12:30 Bill Murray wrote: Considering mafia killed Palmar, and Deconduo, Caller was scum bro On April 10 2013 12:32 Bill Murray wrote: Why is everyone mad I killed Caller? He was quite likely scum. On April 10 2013 12:33 Bill Murray wrote: We know a maf died last night since the janitor power was used. The other 3 kills will be mafia, in all likelihood, so Caller was scum. I will be patient. As it is possible; he could be someone who writes posts before looking @ PM. In review of the above: the chain of posts before he talks to Sno "knowing caller was scum" doesnt logically flow to me that he was aware. But then again, he coulda been trying to protect the role/identity. hmmm; I will be patient and wait the 24hrs. Still reviewing filters of VE/OO/Artanis for leads. | ||
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On April 12 2013 20:52 Oatsmaster wrote: So Yamato isnt bullshitting. I would like to see BM flipped before yamato honestly, if you think that yamato is scum cause of that. The main fallacy I see with my BM/Yam logic is. If BM isn't JV; *if* he is town.. he could say Yam is lying. So yeah, i guess it does all break down there. | ||
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Can you u give me a quick run down of points that stick out to u with Vivax? Artanis makes some weird reasons for Vivax being town in his "final list" post. Its a lot more justified town read, than what he did for deconduo (who im thinking is town currently). So its raising an alarm bell. | ||
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I have reviewed in full VE + Artanis filter. Artanis has ~4 posts giving Vivax town reads for "meta" reasons. People keep asking him to flesh it out; but he just maintains it "meta" The problem is: everyone else he describes as town (e.g. Keirathi) he starts by saying he thinks they are town, but then adds in something suspicious about them. With Vivax; he is a shining beacon of towniness with zero flaws. The parity cop claim doesnt help either. I can support a Vivax death tomorrow/tonight. BM, would you do us the honors and fire away at Vivax? Vivax should be nuked//lynched//shot tomorrow. | ||
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What has hard bussing got to do with being town or scum? I dont recall you having any presence this game to get a wagon started; so your point is moot. So Vivax. Caller scum or town? | ||
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On April 07 2013 16:01 ObviousOne wrote: Gonna read SNB and Now that we know OO is scum.. this is pretty much an association slip for you. And yes, I am being deadly serious. | ||
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On April 12 2013 22:05 Vivax wrote: Caller town. I already said that if janitor is used I'd assume every death was a townie to simplify things. They can basically only use it to discredit vigis or let jubjubs argue that 1 scum is already dead. Wow... We can say with almost certainty that BM is a JV who shot Caller. How can u say he is town, based on the above. That certainly doesnt cut the mustard Vivax. Why you being such a jubjub | ||
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Im struggling to understand how that was an honest attempt to address the question at large. | ||
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On April 13 2013 11:08 Keirathi wrote: Something I've been pondering: BM says his role was renamed to Injustice Vig. What does that imply? A justice vig can only shoot scum, or he dies. Can an Injustice Vig only shoot town, or he dies? If he's town, that's a terrible "character theme" power. But it could make the JV role pickable for scum, if they were thorough enough to ask about it before the picking phase ended. Thats the biggest bunch of WIFOM malarkey I have read this game. | ||
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Me & Geript mainly and partially Oats Yet, me // Geript are still under some sort of cloud of suspicion. Anyways, I decided not to follow the plan and check Vivax. I dont see what it achieves. He wouldnt be so stupid to lie about being parity cop. I have decided to check a VT. | ||
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On April 13 2013 11:59 Keirathi wrote: It's not WIFOM, it's speculation. Something is weird about BM, you can't deny that. It is, but I investing time to ponder that situation is ridiculous. I put in a lot of time yesterday going through his filter, to come to the conclusion. If BM wasnt JV; as town, he would call out Yam as lying. So either, both are town; or both are scum. So i find the endeavor pointless because we all know, the JV role is self-fulfilling. We will know Day 2 which of the above 2 possibilities is validated. | ||
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U want me to burn a check on him instead then? Mine is role check after all. | ||
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On April 13 2013 12:18 Keirathi wrote: Oh, I misremembered exactly what you said: ] That was the weird post, because BM already hard claimed JV. I guess you did decide later that he was JV. I dotn know what he is. Will find out when this cycle is over. | ||
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he knew deconduo was town recently in a post now hes trying to bring wifom to traitor role I checked shevlocke; he is indeed VT. | ||
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not VT | ||
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Night 1.. i said Sinani /Shevlocke were confirmed town for the way, confirmed scum went after them for lynch You fucks all laughed at me. We know SInani is green check. & they *all* went after shevlocke even harder.. Shevlocke is town; and confirmed vanilla. | ||
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Have u read the filters of VE/Artanis/OO. I did, and shevlocke is a recurring theme for pushing as a lynch candidate. | ||
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Now I know he is vanilla; Its enough for me to treat him as confirmed town (personally) This night kill didnt give too much info away Sn0 was a safe kill for inventor & MZ was a safe kill to remove town KP it didnt give anything away to why Kei is still alive etc or any theories akin. Will be very curious to hear what SnB check reported.. | ||
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On April 13 2013 16:13 yamato77 wrote: His "bonus" might just be a GF bonus, similar to Artanis'. This is false as per OP On March 19 2013 05:44 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Politicians gain advantages for having vote manipulation roles, law enforcement has advantages to investigative, gangsters to kp roles, ===================== Vote Rigger - You are a vote rigger! You have two oneshot powers. The first is you can, once only, force a double lynch at any time during the voting (the two leading candidates at the end of the day are lynched). The second is that you may rig the votes as you see fit. Surprise! You may only use one power per day. Can Sinani even be lynched? With no town KP left...? Sinani Please confirm what benefits you have to you're role via being Vote Rigger. | ||
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================ At least we can be sure scum only has 1 night KP. ================ Keirathi Day2, I was pushing for a SnB lynch pretty hard. Austin in particular gave me resistance, and no one else seemed to care about what I was saying. - IIRC that included you. Night 2 you were pushing for SnB. Can you walk me through what in particular changed your mind. | ||
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On April 13 2013 22:57 Restraining Order wrote: sinani says his bonus only applies to the double-lynch (2-shot instead of 1). Which sounds like the town bonus, mafia would have probably gotten 2 rigs, I guess. He has a green check on him. He didn't vote-rig away from their CPR doc. Confirmed scum tried to get him lynched. I'm inclined to believe he is town. The lynch should be between Vivax and snb. On April 13 2013 22:58 Restraining Order wrote: Actually, we can just lynch both. hint hint. Dandel Ion, this is in my opinion; your best two posts in the whole game. And I think one of the best ideas in the game; as simple as it is, the idea didnt cross my mind. I agree completely; enable the vote-rigger double lynch; and vote off Vivax/SnB. Im inclined to think its SnB, but might as well cover all bases and include Vivax. Scum only have 1 KP; so even if this somehow doesnt win the game; town is still in a commanding situation. (I also agree with the logic for thinking Sinani is town) | ||
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Can you please confirm if you are happy to enable the double-lynch power? OR.. just rig the votes and lynch SnB. SnB has not contributed anything to the thread; since Sharrant martyred. | ||
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That post needs to be deleted. You are dead. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=174#3479 | ||
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On April 13 2013 23:51 strongandbig wrote: Yammo is vanilla townie If deconduo was scum janitor we could be looking for a traitor, otherwise I guess we are forced to conclude he really was a townie who used janitor night 1 Why do ppl want to lynch me? This is like the first time that most of my scum reads have actually been correct Also lynching one of our investigative roles when we don't have to seems pretty dumb. Whether I'm town or scum, anyone I give a green check to is not scum Also also BM not wanting to shoot me is not alignment indicative towards me, because if he shoots me and I'm not scum then BM gets auto lynched So instead of looking into other players as scum; your best contribution with 8-9 players in the game; is "there could be a traitor" Zero analysis on who it could be. Yeah.. and then you wonder why you are up for lynch lol. Sinani Are you willing to rig the vote, and remove SnB from play now? | ||
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On April 14 2013 00:17 Restraining Order wrote: Pretty sure that was Oats, dud. Anyways, snb I'll give you 5 more minutes to answer my simple question. LOL... i just saw Rayn and assumed hahah.. True true. | ||
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On April 14 2013 01:31 Keirathi wrote: No, I don't disagree. Hence why I said "Actually that's a good point" Scum almost certainly only have 1 KP left. My only real problem is that we have no idea how the bonuses work. We know a "Gangster" got a godfather bonus. Does that mean a "Law enforcement" character can't get a godfather bonus? Or a "politician" character? The answer you seek is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=174#3467 Short answer is "no" Law enfrocement can not receive GF bonus. | ||
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On April 14 2013 01:22 Keirathi wrote: Actually this is kind of a good point. Hmmm, I'll think about it. Disagree. SnB surely isnt lying about being a detective; so role check is useless. The only alignment check we have is Vivax & SnB. I am role check; and I believe Kei is as well. Both alignment checkers are "questionable". SnB >>> Vivax though. Obviously, if SnB is scum; he will shoot Vivax (or vice-versa).. and then what? We should not be tempted to win this game by DT checks; there should be enough in filters to implicate final scum. Its pretty much pointing out SnB for a long time. A reminder from Sharrant. On April 12 2013 11:57 Sharrant wrote: It was true Day2; and is still true now, Day3.I'm going to say this again: Lynch StrongAndBig tomorrow. He showed up tonight not to help town on the lynch, but to see if he was on the chopping block, and when he realized he wasn't he left. He's not trying to figure out alignments because he's the last scum. Lynch StrongAndBig. | ||
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On April 14 2013 01:57 Keirathi wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2013 01:52 Mocsta wrote: The answer you seek is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=174#3467 Short answer is "no" Law enfrocement can not receive GF bonus. You're reading that part wrong. It says "politicians gain bonuses FOR HAVING vote manipulation roles" not "politices gain bonuses TO vote manipulation roles". By your logic, how is godfather a logical bonus to assassin, a KP role? In fairness, i didnt quote the whole OP as it was a response to something specific. Here we go On March 19 2013 05:44 BloodyC0bbler wrote: [/b]All roles that may be chosen are in the spoilers below. This game also has heavy theme elements. For instance every player will receive as part of their alignment PM a character from the show Boardwalk Empire. Depending on which character you receive you will have benefits for selecting a role that would fit the theme of your character. For example. If you are a character like Richard Harrow a KP role would be more powerful in your hands compared to a detective role. IE if you were a 1 shot kp role normally but are also Richard Harrow you would have 2 shots instead. Politicians gain advantages for having vote manipulation roles, law enforcement has advantages to investigative, gangsters to kp roles, Kingpins have advantages to Traditional mafia roles such as godfather, prince of darkness, janitor, framer, roleblocker. All other characters gain advantages to defensive roles. I get what you are saying though: why wasnt the # of shots increased. WIFOM, but perhaps because assassin is unlimited shots (if correct). Assassins blend in, so GF is a flavour satisfying bonus for an unliminted shot role (in my opinion) but yes, wifom. | ||
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On April 14 2013 02:03 Keirathi wrote: I'm an alignment check, goofy. Ahh ok.. hmm much more plausible then. That reminds me.. Who did Vivax parity check? Will be really convenient if it was BM. | ||
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Night guys. One thing I learnt from filter diving last night (Art/VE/OO) was that, Artanis and IIRC OO; gave Vivax town reads with weird justifications. Artanis town reads on ppl like u, felt real (like he really thought u were town, and was giving points). But with Vivax, he just commented on some stuff about meta. Just something to keep in mind; if Vivax parity check was on BM; I would just lynch him. | ||
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I can only role check. and he was so confident to immediately say parity cop... i saw no reason to validate that. All the other cops tried to be more reserved, and just say cop. If anything that makes vivax look worse though. Point is.. im sure my check would come back parity, so what then? | ||
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and scum wont hard bus day 1 This game; almost anything goes. The only person I am truly certain of is myself, Restraining Order, Shevlocke, Sinani and perhaps Oats. I know you are slippery as scum; and your day1 was questionable.. but i have to put trust in you trying to figure out this game being town; and remove that WIFOM out of the equation. That leaves; yam/SnB/Vivax. I see no reason to not have the vote rigger enable double lynch; and start getting rid of the drift wood, and expedite this game to completion. Anyways, really super tired, so def going to bed now. peace Out, will be out most of the day tomorrow. | ||
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On April 14 2013 03:49 Keirathi wrote: S&B has green+VT check on yam. Whether S&B is town or scum, the check is valid. And a VT can't get any "bonuses" afaik. Which means yam is almost certainly green. Ahh ok. I can live with that That leaves Vivax really kk ##Unvote ##Vote: Vivax | ||
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On April 14 2013 05:50 sinani206 wrote: ##Vote: Sinani206 I will kill whoever town agrees on with the rig to prove I have it. Why are you martyring? We dont want you dead. We want Vivax dead. Pls organise his death. | ||
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Why vote himself regardless. wats the point. Its pretty clear who the town wants dead; so why bother to make this. just do the fucking action. | ||
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Stop wasting my time. I asked him clearly to rig Vivax | ||
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Who was the check on And what was the outcome | ||
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Umm.. considering the way Oats just got lynched in Hydra 2. I would consider lynching him over Vivax. The guy has taken the same tact essentially; argue over nothing. Disrupt the game. Not scum hunt. | ||
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if its double lynch. i vote for oats + vivax. | ||
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He made a post about 28hrs ago. I cant believe we are in such a situation. Geript is fixated on Keirathi Oats is missing in action Yam does nothing, but expects everyone to sheep him SnB/Vivax are just butt fucking each other Shevlocke my good I just want to lynch him for doing nothing ALL game. ================== Just do SnB at this point in the game, he stil wants to lynch Shelvocke and wants RO gone, when i already explained that VE/art trying to nail RO early game, indicates RO is confirmed town. Ppl get confused witht he use of 'bus".. bus is intention to lynch... whereas ppl are actually thinking of 'distancing" | ||
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On April 15 2013 09:26 Keirathi wrote: When I look at S&B's filter, it feels like a fairly genuine progression of his read towards OO. Calls him weak scum day 1, some people die, starts getting more sure, repeatedly brings him up day 2, etc. When I was looking through S&B, it was easily the strongest town point in his favor. You disagree? Umm... the only person that I can recall that avoiding taking a stance on the Artanis lynch was Sharrant/SnB. Sharrant went after OO, because SnB sent him that way. Why did SnB NOT check OO night 1 etc; if the read was that valid. SnB never made a serious push for OO.. in fact, he was the one the used the Geript momentum to setup VE for lynch. Artanis/OO (assassin/CPR vs NRA) are arguably better roles for scum to keep. This is why I was surprised he call s him self town for bussing OO. When he never did such thing, rather, he distanced himself from OO. Do you disagree? | ||
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i dunno, feels townie-ish. ohh well.. this cycle has been so lack lustre. i love how shelvocke comes in last minute to do something. | ||
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i would be more than happy to see kei go he had a shabby start Thing is though. Do we want to rely on Vivax for a parity check if we double lynch snb/keirathi? | ||
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since he has tried to assume town laeder. Sinani Can you double lynch Snb / Keirathi OR. Just Keirathi ==== why? Snb is easy to get lynched next cycle if somehow still alive.. Keirathi, prob the sheep wont vote him; so this is the best chance to remove him from the game. | ||
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On April 15 2013 11:45 geript wrote: If we keep SnB then we can get DTs to double check... Vivax +SnB on Kei and Moc + Kei on SnB. in this situation who is lynched now then? shelvocke / yam /you lol? | ||
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u trust snb check enough to believe what ever he says (if alive) | ||
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the NK dont give away much about kei.. because the hits were valid targets > good town but yes; im more concerned about how much he has tried to achieve this cycle hes done the minimal amount for a guy trying to direct play. | ||
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or his claim to fame is just being a VT? | ||
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On April 15 2013 11:52 Keirathi wrote: I'm not trying to direct town anymore. I gave up. Too many people with "I'm fucking right and nothing you can say means anything" personalities. It's not even fun anymore. I know exactly what that feels like, from when austin was alive. but some how, i still kept engaged. my excuse the past 24hrs has been hydra staretd what is yours? | ||
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a guy like yam in last place.. could consider traitor yam has the ego for it + being ni last palce, there is no cool roles he could try JusticeVig / reclusive traitor I think do make sense for him. But thats prob tunneled thinking | ||
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sigh im just not feeling snb anymore too late i guess | ||
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start of game, was plan and pro-town since draft order.. never got back into the game.. super lurking now. | ||
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u done nothing all game, and now act all high n mighty | ||
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On April 15 2013 11:58 strongandbig wrote: what ive done all game is not be a retard if your play was so great, you wouldnt be up for lynch. so yeah, get off the high horse. | ||
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dont worry, tis SnB | ||
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(1) Saying "LOL"; or (2) Saying "No, you're a retard"; or (3) Tunneling relentlessly Make the game un fun. Pretty much all of us left in the game are guilty of any combination of those 3. | ||
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jsut lynch that fucker next cycle. game over. | ||
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On April 15 2013 12:17 Keirathi wrote: Aw, I was going to say I haven't called anyone a retard or an idiot this entire game. But I did call BM an idiot when he shot Caller But seriously.. i jsut hate it when people do this. Worse thing is. it used to be a scum way of subverting pressure; but now its often lazy town.. which is unfortunate. it truly goes towards creating a negative atmosphere. I try my best to provide a retort to cases, regardless of how stupid they are. But yes, I am not immune from calling people stupid etc. Need to work on it. | ||
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On April 15 2013 12:17 Restraining Order wrote: I'm inclined to agree. n if vivax does not equal gg. then lynch yamato. same reason.. not here.. lazy fuck, obviously doesnt give a shit about the game. | ||
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On April 15 2013 12:21 geript wrote: Honestly, my largest frustration D2 was that you guys would in the least meet me halfway and say, "yes you are 99% town, but would you find a second scum and become 100% town?" Your problem is trying to force confirmed town down our throats its bitter to swallow, and the more you harped on about it, the more you become ignored for your contributions. its just how life works in general. | ||
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cos game didnt finish | ||
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if you live the night double lynch yam/vivax and game is over, hopefully | ||
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thats why the game isnt enjoyable. hes scum btw look how he comes in to just shit on everyone.. but wasnt here when we ened opinion. | ||
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point of reclusive traitor is you arent in scum qt. unless they identify you. | ||
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On April 15 2013 13:02 Vivax wrote: This is weak,Other incriminating stuff: Yamato initially wanted to lynch these guys: + Show Spoiler + On April 07 2013 15:13 yamato77 wrote: Going to bed. When I wake up tomorrow, I'm taking a look at this list of people: VE PALMAR SINANI MEAPAK AUSTIN One of them will get lynched. OO deciding to bus artanis at this time: + Show Spoiler + On April 08 2013 08:23 ObviousOne wrote: British Empire Mini Mafia II [Town]: Comfortable with 180 when confronted with new information Openly questions his detractors Sarcasm/teeth to his posts Early game attention grabber with BS vote on Marv (wasn't even in the game) - not afraid of the spotlight Direct/engaged mid-lategame One of his post-game posts I believe he mentioned before in this game, that he was trying to change up his playstyle a bit: + Show Spoiler + On March 09 2013 09:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Well, just reading the thread and getting reads off that is easy, actually doing analysis on players and posting it and trying to convince others, using meta, etc. is something else and it's not something you bothered with. When I did do so and people barely/didn't respond to it and still happily voted for me, it doesn't particularly make the game very fun. Fruity Mafia [Town]: First major thing that stands out to me is how he formulated this post. He talked about 4 other players then said ObviousOne looked bad (I really did, bee tee dubs): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17802815 He guilted me out of my scum read on Toad (Zessionar in that game): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17811235 Full of questions / interactions / poking Was a town power role and got very bold D2 but town confidence overall was high. Otherwise rather similar to British TL Mafia LI [Mafia]: Talks about things mafia would/wouldn't do (his example was scum don't make big slips) Points out a big scum slip (lol see above) Posts in a reassuring tone (regarding his own reads) Attacked inactivity and claims Post-game confessions: Characteristics I picked out from Haunted [2010]: - Makes summaries {conglomerations of players posts} with blanket statements regarding alignment - I used to do this all the time especially in my earliest games - Feigned/Real inactivity/unavailability - not necessarily a scum tell but a useful scum tool - Offers to be "helpful" for a period of time - not taking the initiative and doing something useful himself - Defensive stance - possibly a product of being under suspicion when being replaced in, but in this game was used to misdirect suspicion on lurkers to non-mafia faction THIS GAME: Dismissive in D0, not chasing shadows or anything really Some concept of a plan presented, not really pushed Not very inquisitive Giant poop in the thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18226316 No real back-and-forth happening Barely here The OBVIOUS conclusion: Scum Spend way more time defending / deflecting than scum hunting, less interactive than his town games. By extension of this, he's missing that edge of sarcasm and incredulity in his voice that is present when he calls people out on their bullshit as town. He doesn't seem interested in getting people to re-factor their reads. Way too defensive to match his town meta in any way. Added note: his filter is barely 2 pages and we've already been active for four real-time days if I am not fucking up my maths. Both scum game filters were short (less than 3 pages each) and showed him hiding by posting just enough to not be considered a lurker. Suddenly Artanis is among yamato's scumreads: + Show Spoiler + On April 08 2013 09:42 yamato77 wrote: Let's lynch Artanis. The fact that the lynch has met resistance and people are arguing about other cases that are "scummier" is a good thing. I love information. OO's analysis of his meta is decent, and coupled with gonzaw's case, I could see Artanus as scum. As for who to vig, it should obviously be sinani. If you read his filter, he posts opportunistically, and generally has little to say. One post in particular I called out as being especially horrible, the one where he gives his "thoughts" on the lynch candidates and is null on three out of four. I was scum with him in Red Team's Prize, and he's acting similar to that game, here his posting in the thread is quiet and not forceful. His "push" of BM as a vig shot is also terrible, because I actually have him down as likely town. As for myself, since people seem to think I need to contribute more, meh. I gave the game the start I wanted and I have some decent town reads out of that, so as far as continuing a high level of activity, I don't feel that it's necessary. I'm doing my own scum hunting, and I make myself known throughout the day on where I'm at. If I drop off the face of the planet, feel free to shoot/lynch me, but I'm not going to be hyperactive in these games anymore. Shortly after OO bussed, yamato adds Artanis to those he would lynch, without fighting for his own choices. far fetched intentionally miscontrues and evident of scum trying to hold onto a microcosm of life. Vivax, just concede man. your 100% getting lynched next cycle. | ||
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So we have some flexibility. Funniest twist woudl be if sinani was scum; and thats why he kept the vote rigged onto snb hmmmph. so many scummy ppl in this game (1) thing i abhor about yam is what vivax picked up how quickly he relinquished his vote onto artanis -> sinani. but, in hindsight im treating this more as egotistical yamato. instead of bandwagon onto gonzaw case. he tried to create his own bandwagon. fits his ego pretty well it hnk. | ||
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Vivax // Oats // Shevlocke We can do checks of whatever, but we are going to have to stop being lazy and revert back to traditoinal filter diving. The most removed player in that list is Shevlocke. He needs to go. | ||
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On April 15 2013 13:37 Oatsmaster wrote: duuuuude. Why not yamato? Does he not have the ego thing playing scum? Cos Yam wasnt posting in Hydra or this. He prob was actually busy. And hes back to giving a shit about the game. Once i see the fruits of his labour, will be ina position to know if its 4 low fruit or keep at 3. Look; if i was last draft pick i would be demotivated. its actually hillarious in hindsight for town to be shafted on Justice Vig by scum!! ============== Sorry guys i know this is lazy and uselesss but i really cant remember the checks from Night 2. Can someone please summarise them? | ||
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which is the point i was talking about.. a town should be particpating now, MORE THAN EVER. Hes not pressured, and feels no guilt. The ppl making cases on Shevlocke early game, were town too (Austin etc) SHEVLOCKE MUST BURN | ||
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================= Vivax/Kei should both check Shelvocke, in case he shoots one of you. I will role check Vivax. If i die & Shelvocke returns green.. then kill Vivax. ================= Sound good? | ||
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On April 15 2013 13:54 Vivax wrote: I went through flipped scum filters, they make me think Shelvocke might not be scum actually. Artanis wanted him dead, called him scum. VE sounded like he was setting himself up to lynch him/found him suspicious. OO defended MZ against Shelvocke. BM did kinda avoid talking directly about him. Called him a hero once though. Thats the conclusion I came to Day 3. But, Shelvocke hasnt done anything since. Scum havnt conceded, even though seriously outnumbered. So they obviously arent under pressure. The corollary is we havnt been pressuring scum (esp because SnB was target du jour) So that leaves Shelvocke and Oats. Im honsetly not sure if scum oats has the balls to convince 3 ppl he is town. Especially now that Kei has access to the qt (and still didnt post the logs). So that leaves Shelvocke as the most viable lynch. | ||
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i like the Bm quote on shelvocke. it does register as authentic reaction. hmmmm. How the fuck can a scum vote rigger be a gf... ggrrrrrr; | ||
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On April 15 2013 14:49 Vivax wrote: I don't think scum sat there, organized and with a plan on what to do, to come out organized exactly when Keirathi got attacked. Have yet to see a scum pr0 team like that lol. Have u seena team bus them selves so hard. normal things are thrown out the game. keirathi did have a very suspect early game. | ||
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On April 15 2013 14:55 yamato77 wrote: If Keir is scum, he deserves to win, IMO. My problem with Kei is to do with In the hydra 1. i felt he was town instantly based on pressure applied in the game. i thought he was town based on thought process I never got any of that this game... the thought has a lot of credence. | ||
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ur gettinng lyncvhed next cycle <3 | ||
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On April 06 2013 12:47 Bill Murray wrote: whatever you're just dumb town after all On April 15 2013 14:40 geript wrote: FUCK how did I miss this. Geript, this raises a very very very good point. Please read + Show Spoiler + You should be lynched. Why? + Show Spoiler + BM isnt stupid; and carefully chose his actions. This is now pretty obvious in the way he carried himself through the game. Henceforth, its not realistic to expect BM to drop a "dumb town" comment into the mix randomly. Say What...... + Show Spoiler + I didnt stutter. This is an intentional quote thrown in, for Geript to claim if shit hits the fan. Geript probably is a VT so role check is useless via choosing something in the top 5 (other than NRA). We all know someone led the save of Artanis. Think about it.. who truly initiated it, cso SnB followed on. Geript was the guy who saved Artanis; by throwing VE under the bus. Why not BM? With arguably the lesser role (if you want to resort to WIFOM, we dont know the rules of "injustice vigi") Because the canvas wasn't set for BM to be bussed. Whereas Geript prodded VE from the start Nah, you tunneled bro + Show Spoiler + No im not. Geript has done fuck all this game. And has been yelling at us to call him confirmed, but no1 ever did. Some how, this fuck of a player managed to secure VE off a nothing/fuck-all filter. And magically had the same role as VE too. This guy has done nothing all game now, except proceed to tunnel Keirathi into oblivion Guys.. regardless of who dies, and who is checked. Lynch this scum muda farker + Show Spoiler + ##Vote: Geript you can concede now | ||
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On April 15 2013 15:26 geript wrote: Looking at the order of the votes, I feel safe in thinking that RO isn't scum. Based on timing, Mocsta could be scum but honestly I don't see that considering how heavily he pushed Artanis. Shelvocke tends t vote close to scum which I think is far more likely to be from town. Also, when you look at the the splayed out votes, you can see a trend. Scum tend to be early voters on the non-scum wagons that are forming and late on the scum wagons that have formed. That leaves Keirathi, Yamato and Vivax in the trend. Awesome summary post of stuff we alerady discussed, just wrapped in a vote count analysis. We alraedy know RO is confirmed, via the way artanis pushed him. We already know Mocsta is confirmed, via the way he pushed artanis/VE. Shelvocke should be confirmed via the way scum pushed him; but has done fuck all. Sinani should be confimed via the ways cum pushed him; but has done fuck all Keirathi should be confirmed via the way he has maintained discussion post-night1; but the game is so shit in general, its suspect he is around. yamato has done fuck all, all game; but not in a way I remember of him as scum. I never remember red team prize. Hes way more active in hydra. and i truly think its a combination of last in the draft // vt role for an outlier choice. Vivax has done fuck all, all game; the vote on Sn0 day1 is suspicious Geript has done fuck all, all game; the scored VE right, and thats it. Wnats to immediately be confirmed after that. Very suspicious. As town I want to be confirmed so ppl stop considering me (to make the game easier to solve).. i still try to scum hunt... not getting that here. Oatsmaster has done fuck all, all game; hes more useless than i remember late game as town. ============================ 2 confirms 2 mild => prob bored VT-equivalent -> sheep 2 maybes => gonna have to treat as town Out of the three Vivax/Oats/Geript... who is the most likely to concede Oats Hence, Oats shifts into milk group. We left with scum as Vivax or Geript. I think Vivax woulda resigned because of the # advantage. This leaves us with Geript as scum who led the bandwagon off Artanis.. and also as the guy who has been pushign confirmed town down our throats because this guy has the INNATE DESIRE to actually end game to the bitter end. Thats right you heard it here.. Geript is one sadistic fuck. DIE SCUM! | ||
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On April 15 2013 15:32 geript wrote: Moc, I'll talk to you tomorrow. But you're dead wrong about me. IF im alive muda farker. | ||
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On April 15 2013 15:37 geript wrote: One last point I'd like to make Moc. Go back and look at when I started to bus BH in The Game. I did it exactly when two or three players (a few with notable thread presence) noticed he was suspicious; what was my response, make a few weak ass points that I never terribly followed up on significantly. When the vote scramble game with the VE stuff did I revert to my "scum read" on BH or even seriously entertain or offer BH up as a lynch option for me? No, he was a side mention while I was on "totes 3P VE." I don't hard bus from the start. I also ask you this... how many cases have scum made against scum at this point? Seriously? I don't remember any (although I'm not done with my readthrough). Honestly, I expect much better than this, but if you need to lynch me to realize that I'm right on Keirathi then please do so if you have to. Nope. im sorry im reverting to primitive scum hunting, where i throw out loose statements (because im too lazy to filter read) & judge the reactions. Im sorry, thsi is going no where and im clouding the thread. Im going to do us all a service and clock off. I will do the courtesy of reading those pages when I clock back on. When I did my Day2, VCA on day1.. it was very frustrating that kei never had a final vote (cos day ended early). its also odd that he unvoted in the first place; and wanted to take his time. Considering everyone else took a stance. That action *is* genuinely peculiar. | ||
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as showtime; his power was used. he was in essence a VT. What was the value in killing him; with the janitor flip, BM could have "framed" ANYBODY. But he chose Caller specifically. This does give heavy credence to Keirathi being under pressure. | ||
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skimmed p38-43 Couple Things. (1) Ima hypocrite. If RO is confirmed, than technically you should be for the Artanis Case. Im surprised no one has pointed this out? Anywho. (2) Caller cases comes in @ p40, and the exchange goes on for a lot. Between p40-43: caller/kei are the main two thread ppl. yam has a post or two, and so does oats, but it is predominantly them. Then @ p43, artanis drops the geript case, and sinani randomly appears and says some absolutely useless comments such as "do we vote yet" So what specific flipped mafia spamming are you talking about? | ||
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On April 15 2013 15:58 Keirathi wrote: What? Caller called me scum during the picking phase, but never followed up on it during the actual game. Night 1, after Artanis and VE flipped scum, he was interested in lynching rayn/sn0/you/Oats. I wasn't under any pressure whatsoever :o In fact, I don't remember a single person mentioning me all of night 1. Bad argument is bad. So you forgot about Sharrant also adding in his 2c on you? | ||
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On April 06 2013 08:10 Mocsta wrote: Man.. Artanis.. I *ABHOR* association reads. But, considering the pressure keirathi is under; and this case on Geript. I will admit I found it odd that Keirathi decided to step in to "hard defend" Geript regarding that "scum slip" comment. Why? Because it didnt put Geript under any pressure. So I could not understand why Keirathi wanted to interject and devote so many posts to discussing this matter. And then to Culminate by throwing suspicion on my action. Just food for thought. + Show Spoiler [scumslip exchange] + On April 05 2013 15:46 geript wrote: @VE Why are you so quiet? I'm not used to you being so behind the scenes instead of being spammy. I would like to get a read on you. On April 05 2013 15:50 Mocsta wrote: I sincerely hope that isnt a scum slip. Because, I expect more from your scum play than a loose phrase like that. I think I know what you meant; but the implication is.. you are aware of what VE is doing currently; which is knowledge townies certainly do not possess.... On April 05 2013 15:52 Keirathi wrote: Err what? How is that in any way a scumslip :o You're seeing things that aren't there, IMO lol. On April 05 2013 15:57 Mocsta wrote: Perhaps, the only reason I dont think its a slip is because its a common saying; and perhaps used in the wrong context. It still does infer he is aware VE is active in a QT. On April 05 2013 16:02 Keirathi wrote: You mean imply, not infer. You inferred based on his implication But I digress... I don't even think it implies that. I mean, I guess I can see how you can read it and think that, but in context the implication to me is that VE is not being out in the open with his thoughts, and instead of hiding in the background without particularly doing anything. Which I can agree with, but I don't think it really means anything yet. On April 05 2013 16:10 Mocsta wrote: Regardless of English semantics. we are saying the same thing. I agree, that was his intention - as the saying is common, and perhaps used incorrectly. I think more of Geript than to scum slip and actually imply VE is busy in the QT - so easily. Regardless, I didnt want to make an inference so early on; so went straight to the source. The whole question is voided now, but it was never a big deal in the first place. <3 On April 05 2013 16:11 Keirathi wrote: Which brings me to another question: Why even bring it up then? Like, what purpose did it serve, if you already didn't think it was a scumslip? On April 05 2013 16:14 Mocsta wrote: The purpose I suggested one sentence above that line. I didnt want to make an inference so early on, so went straight to the source. If we start filling in the gaps now; we will never figure out the scum team.. that is what they want us to do, and how we become tunneled. This was in response to Artanis case drop on Geript. But though several days have passed so memory might be relaxed, the quotes remain the same. I state you were under pressure. This was during vote cycle; so i dunno what you were smoking when you said pre-draft. | ||
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oats; yes, i found keirathi response weird. But i can't tell where you are at: im not sure the geript post you are referencing. | ||
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geript, the problem is. you are interpreting now the artanis -> geript case coming out, due to pressure on keirathi. My take before this story came out, was that the case on you was because you were trying to get VE lynched. We *know* caller could have easily had a counter case made on him.. his filter was attrocious. So im still leaning to the geript case being made to counter your VE tunnel. Im tending to think Geript/Keirathi are two townies going at it. | ||
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Was it because SnB came in and opened his mouth? My filter dive from 3 days ago, of the 3 flipped scum, pointed towards Vivax as likely scum. | ||
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It has gone some way to making ppl probably town. So i want to hear from oats now what his specific gripe with the quote was. | ||
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It was written convoluted, but that is a fair interpretation. K. im ova this now. Im not helping anything currently. | ||
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On April 16 2013 12:26 geript wrote: @Mocsta do you remember if it was Vivax or Kush who pointed out Yamato's attack on Hapa in DukeNukem in a similar way? Sorry I don't know. | ||
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On April 16 2013 12:10 MockArmor wrote: Guys. Pls refrain from quick votes. I really think we need to filter dive And put up dot point cases to substantiate votes. We shouldn't let scum come in throw a vote and leave On April 16 2013 12:14 MockArmor wrote: This situation is reminding me heavily of Mafia lx where random bum lurked to second place. He never pushed anything and stayed off ppl radar. In this game two people satisfy that. Sinani and Shevlocke. We also know from hydra, scum oats has no issues arguing with me. vivax Who did u get a check on...? On April 16 2013 12:15 MockArmor wrote: sinani Why did u activate double lynch? On April 16 2013 12:21 MockArmor wrote: I will let you know once vivax gives his check result On April 16 2013 12:28 MockArmor wrote: I'm comfortable lynching oats based on a few things. Really disruptive early game Late game. Oats sheep's. Here he is trying to set the pace No one has posted logs. If oats is town, surely the start of the qt would be one of the two trying to find alignment. I'm thinking of this as the logs from BH and gk in the game. Recruiting mason is a null pick for town or scum. Its not kp, but the guy was low on craft list and its better than a vt. And bm choosing jv gives precedent for odd picks. | ||
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But before voting vivax I need to read his filter to check his stances during the lynches. His absence is frustrating but it equally applies to most ppl here. Geript that u r here now trying to solve the game. Is a big plus for u, even though u tunneled keirathi. As stated before though. I think we need dot point cases instead of OK want to vote for this guy. Scum need to work for this win. | ||
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E.g. in the game, BH chose the town gk to hard defend. If gk mislynched, he looked good. The meta defends of vivax is in a similar vein....but.. I do not recall vivax being close to being lynched, so the read did come out a an odd time. I'm at work on tablet. Can anyone pls summarise oats stance on the scum lynches vs town lynches? | ||
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Can u pls post the vivax quote. Like I said. I'm at work on tablet. Its hard to filter dive without getting caught | ||
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Do we use the double lynch? I.e. do u assume someone is traitor or not. I'm inclined to go with one lynch. That way if game proceeds we potentially have another townie, as oats can't be traitor. | ||
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We really need vivax to share his check. Shevlocke, any reason you didn't share this first opinion yesterday? I also don't like your conclusion with kei being shot for being DT. He was also a town contributor. So this jump to high DT value whilst interesting is too black/white for my liking. | ||
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So why shoot kei over vivax then? Both are alignment cops. Your second para indicates vivax is top read. The first para indicates oats? In case their is a traitor, I think it would be ideal to only vote 1 person | ||
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Damn auto correct. I meant, restraining order has no check.. So he is the one that fears kei? | ||
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I feel like middle of nomination Mafia right now. Aka. Demotivated. But. If 1 scum is left. Why double lynch? Shouldn't we pride ourselves on scum hunting and identifying that one scum? I'm just looking at the situation if by some fluke we double mislynch, we putting a town win in danger. That is all. This game,me would be embarrassing to lose given the start. | ||
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I guess vivax hasn't been checked so ties in. Geript, looks like vivax is not here. I forgot to submit action. Sorry. K I'm down with vivax / oats. Hopefully hosts might shorten cycle. ##vote: vivax ##vote: oatsmaster | ||
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Unlike these guys throwing votes around. Even though I joined them. I have every intention to filter dive before deadline. Hopefully with an open mind. That includes another re read of the 4 flipped scum. I really hope everyone does this before consolidating. I must say I'm really concerned sinani decided to activate the double lynch. And that vivax is yet to show his face. If I was lazy or ran out of time, I would just lynch vivax based on my flipped scum read a couple days ago AND his weak beans case on yam. That was terrible and completely took the quotes out of context. | ||
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I'm am role cop, and I may have not submitted action. I wanted to see vivax response. Pretty disappointed with it thus far | ||
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Thinking about things. Kei immediately said bm was scum last day. In hindsight that was townie as fuck. Why did u decide to instance tunnel him. Instead of scum hunt u chased conspiracy theories. Your rendition of how your case dropped was incorrect too as noted by most commenting. Your only contribution was ve, and magically u knew out of 5 picks he was the only NRA candidate. This story is too good to be true. Lastly the whole trying to be confirmed town and the bm town drop. Yep. When I called you out for the ve scum slip I was dead right. I call bullshit. You are my top vote. Still figuring out my insurance second pick. Prob vivax but will filter dive to confirm. | ||
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On April 05 2013 03:19 Bill Murray wrote: 1. CALLER PLZ ME deconduo Palmar raynpelikoneet visceraeyes vivax gonzaw austinmcc sinani206 strongandbig meapak_ziphh artanis[xp] sharrant sn0_man keirathi Obviousone geript restraining order shelvocke yamato77 mocsta 23. Oatmaster Guys this is real. Disregard last post geript. The post before this. Bm, says he has 4 town reads, which in hindsight was a scum reference. There is indeed a method to the madness. Anyways ppl say these lists are wifom, it having done them as scum before. I k ow they are not. Note the symmetry in distancing between the 4 flipped scum. This leaves sinani or yamato as the last scum. U can laugh at me all u want, but this cycle I'm voting sinani and yam. I'm expecting yam to flip red based on this list. Sinani is for security. I believe yam only has a green check, not a role check. He can easily be godfather. I will read his filter later tonight to get supporting quotes. Vivax, I will re read your yam case points. I probably discarded prematurely because I was too suspicious | ||
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On April 06 2013 09:17 Bill Murray wrote: I want to pick a defensive role, since mafia are unlikely to pick them, but if I overlap with someone, I'll be a townie ;/ Yam.. This quote seriously looks bad for you. | ||
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On April 06 2013 13:03 Bill Murray wrote: geript is yamato your top scum? Bm doesn't give a shit on anyone this game. But decides to check in when someone is suspicious of yam... Doesn't look good again | ||
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I made these lists before. There is a certain method/pattern to the madness. Look at yam in hydra and look at him here. He's a lurky mopey fuck in this game.town yam loves beating his epeen and tunneling town that he thinks is scum. None of that this game. We given him a pass because he was last craft pick. Oats, if u disagree with the list theory fine. Its out there. I can admit that. But tell me.why is yam town for u? | ||
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Because pattern wise, sinani could be replaced with you. But I gotta finish bm filter first. Its a gold mine | ||
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On April 16 2013 19:08 Vivax wrote: I could see Shelvocke being mafia traitor, that'd explain the green check. Unlikely he has been recruited. I could get behind lynching him over Sinani, and I'm somewhat confident yamato is GF. Oats is town. Mocsta, who did you rolecheck tonight? Cause if it wasn't me, who's at risk of getting lynched and whose claim is doubted, your role usage would be pretty bad (as are your votes). Firstly, I was posting on a tablet. Its hard to vote, cos of all the character changes. Why is teh role usage bad? Shelvocke was a good role check. Yeah Deconduo most likely turned out town; but I thought I had enough to call him scum back then. Im still waiting for your parity check result... | ||
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and dandel would have had no idea i was checking him (if ppl want that wifom) | ||
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Alignment unknown. | ||
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On April 16 2013 22:33 Vivax wrote: You do the same stuff you mention against Shelvocke: After mentioning both Artanis and VE as scumread, saying that gonzaw's death gave more weight to artanis, you chose to go after sinani. You weakly bussed your teammates while going for another player, and you didn't have time to switch back to one of them, nor did it make sense for you to do that. Is Shelvocke Vanilla?In that case, he's a traitor with a green check, sinani is confirmed for having a role AND has a green check. ##Unvote sinani206 ##Vote Shelvocke I get this process look terrible for yamato.. i hated it at the time, and still hate it. But.. why are you treating shelvocke as traitor? EVEN *if* he was traitor.. how do you jump to the conclusion taht scum already figured out he was traitor, and pm the host? | ||
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On April 06 2013 09:17 Bill Murray wrote: I want to pick a defensive role, since mafia are unlikely to pick them, but if I overlap with someone, I'll be a townie ;/ Yam.. This quote seriously looks bad for you.... Who overlapped Justice Vigi with BM, and thus was treated as confirmed town for multiple cycles... BM.. This quote is NOT a random coincidence. On April 06 2013 13:03 Bill Murray wrote: geript is yamato your top scum? Bm doesn't give a shit on anyone this game. But decides to check in when someone is suspicious of yam... ======================== Then you have his actions during the Artanis lynch; where he says he will follow gonzaw, and then tries to push it to Sinani.... What is the town motive there? (As vivax has shown) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=193#3859 & finally you have the way yamato tries to fling all cases off him.. All game when under heat his response is akin to: On April 16 2013 21:18 yamato77 wrote: I'm not even going to fight you people lynching me because it makes no sense. You're inventing narratives to fit this idea of me being mafia rather than taking the time to honestly evaluate my play in context. There are three people you need to be weary of; Oats, Vivax, and Shelvocke. I hope you have enough lynches left. The guy doesnt give a shit. When Oats/Vivax were under heat.. both of them have some passion back... TOWN passoin. Yamato just throws in a snide remark *I hope you have enough lynches left* This guy is scum; and doesnt give a shit. ======================== All ##Vote: Yamato77 | ||
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On April 16 2013 23:38 yamato77 wrote: Mocsta, the problem is that both of you are ignoring the fact that until he died, Artanis did start to look better, even by your own admission. The difference is in how I unvoted Artanis after engaging him, and shelvocke invites him based on WIFOM without a second thought. Think about this more. It's seriously not that difficult to understand how I could have simply been wrong, because it is there in my filter. It is not in Shelvocke's however. I wasn't cherry picking like you guys when I showed his read on Artanis and the ridiculous way he went off the wagon. Nah.. i seriously questioned the way you unvoted artanis at the time. I distinctly remember having a go at you. I dont believe Vivax captured those interactions. In unbelievable town would trumpet the Gonzaw horn so hard; and then just drop it on a whimper. | ||
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On April 16 2013 23:38 Vivax wrote: We don't know if they figured it out, he still wins with scum even if they didn't, they just can't communicate. Traitor is actually a smart pick, 6 scum is pretty strong, and them not giving up is other evidence that they think they have a good position. He's vanilla, and has not been playing pro-town, he has been green-checked and not been doing much at all since then. Some would say the same for you. Im OK with Shelvocke as a double lynch.. but not as a primary (but i suspect we alraedy had the saem conclusion) | ||
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On April 16 2013 23:42 yamato77 wrote: Also, you're right, I don't care. Arguing with you this game has been the most unfun experience ever. See ya later then. | ||
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you gave a shit about hydra, purely because you had a nuke | ||
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its ok.. scum yam gives up. | ||
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On April 16 2013 23:38 Mocsta wrote: Yam.. This quote seriously looks bad for you.... Who overlapped Justice Vigi with BM, and thus was treated as confirmed town for multiple cycles... BM.. This quote is NOT a random coincidence. Bm doesn't give a shit on anyone this game. But decides to check in when someone is suspicious of yam... Hunny your bm stuff means nothing.. as per the above. | ||
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anyone else name you want to chuck in? might as well add dandel too pls | ||
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On April 17 2013 00:01 yamato77 wrote: Think logically for a second and realize that all of the things you accuse me of, geript is even more guilty of. BM has quotes about Geript that relate to having someone else choose JV to make him look towny? Did i miss something in the filter? BM asks why someone thinks Geript is scum? Did I miss something in the filter? Geript is asking for pity CONSTANTLY Did I miss something in his filter? | ||
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My money is on yam and if a traitor exists... its geript or Shelvocke. for shits n giggles. i would just do geript/yam this cycle and if that doesnt end game.. then shelvocke next | ||
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you doing the EXACT same thigns syllo was doing when you nuked him C ya later yam | ||
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you so fucking town, if we are on the same page @ the same time. | ||
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but i never thought it would go down this limply if it was the case. | ||
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i love it when someone responds to easy shit like that and doestn addres any real points; or provides a viable alternative that isnt thread sentiment. | ||
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On April 17 2013 00:46 Mocsta wrote: ##Unvote ##Unvote ##Vote: Yamato77 ##Vote: Geript | ||
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if you notice.. i said.. geript for funsies i knew he would get his knickers in a twist hahah | ||
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yam has crawled away like the scum he is. | ||
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when vivax/oats/geript been voted.. they act like bitches to avoid a lynch yam just throws ad-hom, and asks for pity shelv is just non-existant, so yeah. happy witht hat i STILL want to know why sinani activated double lynch but | ||
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##Vote: Shelvocke There you go knickers-ript | ||
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cos its like he doesnt pay attention to the game at all; i just would have thought he would give us notice because witht eh vote rig.. he made it clear he wouldnt just do what we requested. | ||
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I re read the yam exchanges this morning, and changed my mind Turned out the thread came to the same conclusion. Whilst I'm still finding yam useless, his posts last night seem genuine. I have been demotivated several times end game.. And his posts completely brought me back to that mindset. So vivax is definitely getting lynched. No point recommenting on all ready good points. Best quote by far is the one I highlighted previously as well. The oo, IS vivax comrade in arms or comrade at war. So for second lynch, it is between oats and shelvocke. Pros Shevlocke Confirmed vt as said Cons Shevlocke Showtime whilst picked by town.. Already was thread knowledge Has done nothing all game.... Which is prob a null tell as iirc his votes were on the right people. Pro oats Stupid posts as usual Recruiting mason is a weak Mafia role Provided opposition to bm wifom list Cons oats Really disruptive this game The pro/cons aren't necessarily scum/town tells. I'm in agreeance. ##unvote:yamato77 ##unvote: ?Shevlocke? ##vote: vivax ##vote:shelvocke | ||
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On April 17 2013 09:03 Vivax wrote: yeah and that's not scummy by itself.Other stuff, regarding OO and yamato Earlier information by me, here: + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2013 03:38 yamato77 wrote: LET'S LYNCH MEAPAK On April 12 2013 03:54 yamato77 wrote: OO I have my vote on. Most of Sharrant comes across as very "clean" and thought out, but I'm not going to call him scum for that, because it doesn't seem like a strong heuristic. He could very well be town, but the fact that he defended Artanis AND VE is not a good thing. Do people actually say that kind of shit when they're wrong? It seems unnaturally complacent with this "pro-town" ideal he has going on in ihis filter. This is the only other thing that makes me want to lynch him. Sorry, but here's another thing that is similar to what you did with Artanis and VE. You shout someone is scum while softbussing scum. You post like crazy that MZ is scum, then shortly affirm in your next post that your vote is on OO like it's some sort of justification for people telling you that MZ isn't a viable lynch for that day. You posted that last quote where you were voting for someone you thought might be scum more likely than the read you were pushing (MZ) as answer to this from austin: What has sharrant or shelvocke done that makes them less likely mafia than MZ? OO? Mocsta? geript? There are a boatload of players who have done very little today, almost ALL of us have done very little of consequence. You are tunneled in on these little weird things and need to expand your view. You want or wanted to kill BM, despite claiming that you picked justice vigi and didn't get it. He seems like the only person who fits the bill, and that means that, if he's town, he's shooting at mafia, and if he's mafia, he's shooting at mafia or dying. If he's actually justice vigi, that is ACTUALLY the worst possible lynch you could come up with. So...quit being tunneled in. It hasn't served you particularly well in some recent games, and right now it's not doing you any good. Of which, out of all of them, you picked OO to put your vote on, while in a post shortly after you say this, except for geript these are the guys austin wondered about regarding you not wanting to lynch them: On April 12 2013 04:03 yamato77 wrote: Now if I was to take things at face value ( like you guys suggest), then the only people I want to lynch into dwindles: S Sharrant OO If 2/3 or 3/3 of the remaining mafia are among them, then yeah, you guys are obviously on the right track here, but you don't really need me to accomplish hunting them, do you? It's already done; I know they have a chance at being mafia, so I'm trying to pursue opinions on other people to get a more clear picture of the game that isn't "tunneled". This just looks like you were afraid to have your vote on your actual scumread and picked your scumbuddy to drop your vote on while pushing for everything else, in order to have a reason to switch if you managed to convince others. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Next chapter, post-lynch, he starts saying all sorts of inconsistent stuff: On April 12 2013 04:23 yamato77 wrote: Has anyone considered this possibility? If BM is telling the truth, and is JV who shot mafia Caller, and Deconduo was actually mafia Janitor, there's only 1/5 mafia left. Seems possible, no? Thus, if we lynch mafia and don't win the game, and there's no anti-town third party, one of Mocsta/BM is probably mafia. That's how I reached that conclusion. On April 12 2013 10:46 yamato77 wrote: Yeah, just shoot Vivax. On April 12 2013 12:40 yamato77 wrote: Other potential candidate for last mafia if both Moc and BM are town is Shelvocke. So yeah, this game is almost solved, assuming there are no more GF flips. On April 13 2013 04:21 yamato77 wrote: >_> You guys are making this game more complicated than it should be. How about we lynch Mocsta, since his shot was not on scum? (Picking Mocsta over BM lol) On April 13 2013 12:39 yamato77 wrote: ##Vote Vivax Vivax isn't even interested in the game anymore, and is no longer active. He, as town, is spammy as fuck and insane the entire game. Kill it. Picking me over Shelvocke who he had as scum during lynch-day. More stuff: OO had been afk for a while, then Mocsta made case on OO and voted him. Yamato reacts with this: Oats declares that he wants to lynch OO as second in vote row (of valid votes) here, Obvious makes comeback post, and yamato responds to it with this. Yamato slaps down his vote on two? guys, OO and some other dude, here, then comes back later and pulls off the same shit he did with VE and Artanis (being weak busses), he tries to start a bandwagon on another player, MZ here. Everyone has bad games, and that is trepidation in my opinion, as opposed to intentional misdirection. I think it is town who writes concerns like that bluntly. | ||
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Last chance Explain to me why ro is town to you. And if he is framer, why he can't have godfather perk. Gogogo | ||
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On April 17 2013 09:14 geript wrote: Mocsta, what do you think of my association stuff? To be frank I only skimmed it. Went out last night so didn't have the time I wanted to put into the game to filter dive. Prob is all the candidates have bad play aspects. Town just need to confirm whether its poor play or scumplay. Im confident everyone is laughing and giving us shit in the obsqt and scum is prob pretty obvious. The thing in our favour is we should have the numbers advantage so it doesnt matter who is shot. Lynch systematically to the win. Regardless of filter quality, that is vivax and Shevlocke first up. | ||
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On April 17 2013 09:23 Vivax wrote: It's up to you to make the correct choice, I did identify the scum, so suck it. Who says that was a choice. I wanted to see validation behind a read. To me right now, increased activity is alignment null. It was clear I was valuing activity as a town tell. That was just my way to force scum to particate. I'm finding your cases jump to a lot of hasty and fabricated conclusions. Could be bad town or desperate scum. Considering u did nothing all game till balls are on the chopping block. I'm leaning desperate scum Your response to that last request does nothing to deter that opinion | ||
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I have been going through vote thread. I wanted to.compare yam to.vivax but i noticed.something.different. Im.on phone. Too hars to.quote. Sorry. But we been fighting with each othwr. Scum is lurking in the shadow with a green check telling us what we want to.hear. Just like randombum in mafia lx. Scum is sinani Let me walk the points.and feel free to critically evaluate. Day 1 sinani.votes snb with bm.. This swt off.my radar already. Remaining cycles he always follows thread sentiment. And ignores all attempts to.communicate with him. Day1 thwre was the scum.slip with ve. The be safe i give null with tinge of.red. But kicker is in that post he votes snb. So why is it a kicker? A couple posts down.he responda to gonzaw requeat for a vig shot. And says.BM. Out of.no.where. Fuethwr. Bm had a vote on.snb before.sinani put a vote down. Thats outright weird. Doeant feel natural and we kmow scum were bussing each other hard. Sinani fits into that pattern. Since scum been getting lynched. He juat shuts up and follows sentiment. Makes sense why no concede too. Hes never been under pressure. Sinani needs to go. Im happy with shevlocke foe this cycle as number two. If that doeant work. Vivax.next. Then oats. | ||
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Evwything is just too hard right now | ||
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im.derping so bad And u talking sense Ima be sheeping | ||
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Shevlocke is being considered for doing fuck all and low activiry. Funny he forgets that Its great that he knows his two lynches. But he done nothing to walk us through how he got there. | ||
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Out of all the people nominated for doing sweet fuck all. Shelvocke response is far by the most antagonistic. Peace out | ||
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Second is between vivax / yam. Vivax makes sense based on flipped scum interactions. But... I'm voting yam based on continual false promises. His last posts saying he slept in, whilst, could be completely true. Does not make me see any value in keeping Jim around. At least a town vivax is parity | ||
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This was embarrassing, but at least we got there. Fuck face should have conceded. Game took forever | ||
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Caller can call me shite whatevs, I don't regret shooting decon. Hopefully next time I can recognise better blue vs scum lurking. But yeah def deeper into the game derped hard, was a combo of demotivation and laziness. Prob more lazy, we all got like that towards the end. But its really frustrating when someone puts ideas in the thread and you see ppl just shoot it down by saying "lol" or "you are an idiot". It was a recurring theme this game, and does create a negative vibe. And yes, I think I was guilty of it too at times. Didn't think I was a bully though. | ||
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